Panic World - When sex is "optimized"

Episode Date: April 15, 2026

Today we’re talking about Aella the e-girl and “rationalist," who is probably also pretty smelly — at least if her birthday gangbang breakdown is to be believed. She's known for issuing controversial polls about sex and relationships, and then scrapping with people online about the results. June Sternbach & Josh Boerman from the Ill Conceived podcast join us to trace Aella's history and her impact on the broader culture, for better or for worse. Our guests June Sternbach & Josh Boerman host the podcast Ill Conceived. You can follow it here or anywhere you listen to podcasts. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Um, quick question for the two of you. How often do you to shower like, right? Do you shower normally? Do you shower? I forgot to shower this morning. That's why my hair looks like this, which is very embarrassing. Did you shower last night? I did, yeah. Okay. That's fine. I'm a night showerer. I know that's controversial. People are like, you can't do that. You're going to be in your filth. I can't help it. I'm sorry. But I also didn't shower last night because I was busy seeing an Elvis impersonator and I got to say I get why. Gen X is like that. I understand. I understand. I understand. Yeah. Elvis is kind of dope, but I understand why they're all fascists now. Okay. Well, there's a lot there. And we can get into that in a second. There's a whole pipeline. Yeah. While we're still talking about showering, I do want to say for our video viewers, my hair is a little curly today because I have run out of conditioner.

And I want to say that I discovered, I came across a video of this like very cool, like, lesbian chef on YouTube who was talking about her hair routine because I guess she got a lot of comments about it and she was like oh I shampoo and condition my hair every day and I was like her hair looks really good and I started doing it but then I ran out of conditioner and then my hair went back to its normal size and so now I'm actually kind of liking it more now I think I think I like I got to say I like the fluf thank you that they I was using conditioner and it was sort of like I mean I was looking like this really cool lesbian chef that I found on YouTube but I think I feel more like myself with my hair now.

So audience, let us know, which I only want the comments to be about Ryan's hair. How much volume should Ryan's hair? Right. I think personally you should be a lesbian. I think I think you need to go with the lesbian. I always encourage men to look like a lesbian. I see. Yeah, I see what you're saying.

Eulian Murphy, everyone loves. It's true. Like, let's be honest here. I think that's the people love when men look like lesbian. That's the kind of lesbian that I see. would like to look like, I don't want to look like a fuck boy lesbian, like a Justin Bieber lesbian. I want to look like an old Irish grandmother. Yes.

Yes. Like Killian Murphy. But enough about lesbian grandmothers. Today, we are here at Panic World, a show about how the internet warps our mind, our culture, and eventually reality. My name is Ryan Broderick. With me, as always, is Grant Irving. Joining us today from the ill-conceived podcast is June and Josh.

Hello. Thank you guys for being here. Thank you so much. We are here to talk about something that I have not wanted to talk about at all. I have fought tooth and nail to not talk about it. We are talking about Aalya, the E-Girl, and the rationalists from Silicon Valley. These people were the internet, the world as we know it, and are increasingly crashing out and fighting to stay relevant. And Aila is probably the smelliest one.

So we picked her to talk about all of this. But we're going to get all into that in a bit. Let's first talk about kind of the basic facts of this. So do either of you have like a good working definition for like what rationalists are? I would say that generally speaking, they are people who believe that the world is understandable based on sort of observable principles. in that by interrogating the various principles of the world through constant rigorous analysis, you can come to truths about the world.

And for what that looks like, for Aila specifically, is that she is constantly running polls on her Twitter account about like if you, if you had to rape a child to save the world, would you do it? They love stuff like that. That's true.

Most of these people, that's most of these people. because Josh, you gave a very academic, a very smart answer about what these people claim to be or what they think they are. But what they actually are is like they just post like, could trees emit hydrogen? Like, like, and then the people are like, no, that's fuck that could never happen. This is not something that anyone has ever thought about. This is not something anyone like needs. And they're like, the fact that you're getting mad at me sort of proves why I needed to ask that question.

This sounds dumb because it is. But it's the ideology that's spreading. across Silicon Valley right now. So let's dig into their culture, shall we? Yeah. Basically, the rationalist, the effect of altruist, the effect of accelerationists, all these people believe that AI is inevitable, and they're trying to come up with like philosophical frameworks for dealing with this inevitable God-level superintelligence

that we would create. So the effect of altruists believe that you can like kind of fix all of society's ills by like over adapting to the free market, like even more so, sort of like that like, that like human misery is a math problem that can be solved by money. Effective accelerationists believe that like AI will destroy the world and they want it to so they can build a new one. Those freaks, those people are freaks. I do not understand. Yeah, I cannot understand how we have not like put them in like the fucking like swamp yet.

Like I don't understand. It's such an anti-human perspective to take. And they're human, obviously. Yeah. The phrase that I use for a lot of these people is that we got to dig a big hole and put them in it. Um, like, like they just don't really belong in society. And like most of the people who are being talking about today do not belong in society, which is why they're so interested in building a new worse one, which brings us to Ala, which will show us what happens to a brain when it's exposed to rationalism. So I did not know this.

When did, when do you guys think Aila appeared on the internet? Like, what do you, where do you think she comes from? Because this surprised me. So to me, she has just, I can't imagine a world without her in it. You know, that's the thing for me. She's like an eternal presence. I feel like she's like old internet. I feel like she was like, I don't know where specifically, but I feel like if you go to like all of her social media, she had like registered her accounts and like whatever forums.

Yeah, she didn't she didn't come from like something awful, did she? Well, so I thought she sort of clipped through like the wall between her dimension and ours around 2020. Like, you know, the dime score vibe shift seems to have spawned her into life. But no, yeah, June is right. I didn't know this. She started as a cam girl on 4chan. Okay. Oh, my.

Unfortune of all places. Yeah, so according to the Daily Dot, they got her, they, she gave this quote. I actually just got really drunk one night, looked over and saw a tube of white face paint from Halloween and figured I should put it on my face. And then next thing you know, I'm trapped in invisible boxes and humping chairs. So she was doing like erotic. mind play on 4chan. Interesting. Yeah.

It should be surprised to nobody here that she was homeschooled and raised extremely religious. There you go. There you go. I don't really have, you know, I'm all about personal freedoms these days. If you want to homeschool your kids, it's fine. But you just have to find a new country for them to live in that like I don't have to deal with. I'm with you 100%.

We have talked about homeschooling on our show a few times. And one of the things that we regularly get in terms of just listener feedback is I was homeschooled and I regret it. Yeah. And of course, they don't have a choice, which is the problem. It is like, it's forcing a pretty rigid worldview at the end of the day. Like, it's education second. It's about like shielding from ideology from from the queers. And it like can really fuck people up.

It's not, it's I personally my hot day, because I think homeschool more or less, except for for some situations where it's like somebody can only be homeschooled. I think it should be like child abuse. Like it's not good for a kid. It's not good. I think it's bad. I think it's bad. I think it should be banned.

I, you know, that's pretty hot take. I'm not going to touch. I'm not going to touch that one to 10 foot pole. But what I will say is that having to deal with adults who were homeschooled is a form of abuse that I am, I am experienced. They should all be cease studying.

Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Honestly, you know, if Peter Thiel wants to take all the homeschool adults and just put them on a fucking oil rig. Then they can do whatever they want. They can share memes there.

They would love to share memes with each other. So, Ala branches out to Reddit, like everybody else, around 2013, 2014. She shares a photo album of her. I mean, it's basically like a photo album of images of her being sexually assaulted by garden gnomes that she photographed. That's pretty funny. That becomes the Gone Wild subreddit's highest rated post of all time. Wait, so... Oh, I see.

I'm also just realizing I have seen this post. This, by the way, just totally no way you hadn't seen this. To describe this for people not watching on the video feed, right? It's very goofy. It's very millennial-coded. She is... It's a very quirk-chung-chung-s porn album. She's quirk-chung-chung-as-hell.

She's got our hands out. like kind of like toward the camera being like, oh no. And she's by these little like garden gnomes. And she's got one of her feet up in the air behind her. But the camera angle is like pointed toward her face. And then yeah, yeah, moving sort of toward the back wall of the room. Can I say something? Yeah.

She has Comic-Con face. Yeah. There's like a- This is new. Tell me what is Comic-Con? I've not heard of that. There is like a specific kind of white woman that exists at comic conventions in the early 2010s. There's a look and typically a voice associated with it as well.

A voice that would sort of, you could imagine them talking to you at great length about sort of like BBC Sherlock. This is a close relative of DreamWorks face. It's a little different though. I would almost say that they have a speech impediment. It's, it's, it's, it's, there's an accent. There's like a Comic-Con accent and a Comic-Con face. And Ala has one. And I sort of hadn't connected it that like a lot of the accelerationists and sort of Silicon

value people have like, like, Yeah, I, uh, I've been watching BBC Sherlock for a while. And, uh, you know, I, I'm pretty sure that Rick and Buck Falls will make John Locke. Um, so I think you're touching on something sort of interesting. that I've noticed recently. I've seen people, because you were sort of saying that this is sort of an old aesthetic of like convention going, right? Like it's not necessarily how it is today, is what you were sort of saying. There was an interesting thing. I don't really have a name for it. I don't remember the little web series I saw it from off the top of my head, but the,

the proliferation of social media has sort of changed that because like that's Quirk Chungis. These days, Quirk Chungis doesn't really hit it off on social media the same way. Everything is like pristine. Everything is like shiny, like perfect, beautiful. on social media, especially in like, timegoing scenarios. Like back in the day, you'd see people wearing like a shitty robe, like in a shitty orange robe and like Naruto running around. And now it's like everyone has like the craziest get-ups. And it's like film crew level type like filmography and like camera work.

And it's like that is sort of very professional. Very professional as like back in the day was very earnest. It was very quirk chungis. The quirk chungis has no longer invoked. No, we've de-chungis as a culture, I would say. We have de-chungist. and just a sort of final glimpse of what this culture was like. One of the top comments on this photo album was,

I laughed, I fapped. What else can you ask for? Fuck yes. Now that comment date, I need to know when that was. Yeah, I got it right here. I got it right here. So it's September 5th, 2013. That sounds about right.

Yes. Oh, God. These are awful. These are awful comments. Are you looking at more of them? Because I specifically show the least offensive. One of them says, I honestly expected to see a picture of a gnome deep in your vagina. Oh, God.

Anyways. So she was always sort of like how she still is. She's very pushes the boundaries. Yeah. She's always been good at the internet. Like is very fluent in sort of like the way that like men on the internet want to be spoken to by a woman. Which I think is very important for her rise later. Here's a quote from her from Know Your Meme.

She posts these pictures and she goes for a walk and she doesn't think about them going viral. And she says, I ate a sandwich and then I kept walking. And as I kept walking, the post was exploding in the ranks. My phone started going off. But also I have IBS. So my stomach was feeling pretty bad and I needed a diarrhea immediately. So I started looking for a place to diarrhea.

But the places I was walking through were full of really upper and suburban homes. I was like, this is not good. I had to jump into a bush right on the side of the road and pulled off my pants. But while this was happening... This is just fetish content. But while this is happening, I am becoming famous. Commenters are like, oh, my God, you're so sexy and funny. And then I walked to a gas station and threw my underwear in the trash.

It was my first taste at having a lot of attention. And I really like, oh, no, I have to go diarrhea. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And with how she locked in the even freaky, Yeah, but that's exactly. Yeah, so, you know, she gets her first running with internet fame. She has diarrhea in a bush, throws her underwear in the trash, and the rest is history.

You know, this is the internet we all miss. So how does Aela change into someone trying to spearhead a crypto dating app and start talking about eugenics? We're going to talk about that. And after a word from our sponsors, Emodium. I googled diarrhea medicine. That was pretty good. I got it. I got it.

No, it's good. Oh, I thought that was an actual. I was like, okay, we're going to wait a second. We're going to reset. No, no. Peptobismol. 2014, sort of a big inflection point for the internet. You know, it starts to sort of get a lot less innocent, maybe, a naive than it used to be.

But Ala is still sort of a massive presence now on both Tumblr and Twitter and Reddit, where she's doing a lot of novelty porn. This is also probably like peak burlesque era. I remember like going to like an X-Men themed burlesque show in the Lower East Side in 2014. Was that at the slipper room? Please tell me that. Was that the slipper room? Almost certainly probably.

But it was pretty good. I mean, like I remember it being pretty impressed with their Professor X. They had like a sexy wheelchair for him and stuff. They do Lincoln Park themed burlese now. I know that's all of your interest, Ryan. I mean, I do love Lincoln Park. I think they're their Nirvana of the 21st century.

You're kind of real Yeah Also like all music Kind of sounds like Lincoln Park And like you tell like you talk to any some like person from Gen X and it's like Nirvana that was the shit And like anyone that's like sort of in their late 20s or early 30s that you hear a numb and everyone goes oh oh yeah oh it's like yeah same reaction I was just hyperpop couldn't exist without Lincoln Park I don't know about that Sure I was just literally XX couldn't exist without Lincoln Park

I was just a Meteora listening to I did this on purpose. Numb encore again the other day. Unbelievable. So good. Unbelievable song. So 2014, Ala was having fun. We're all having fun with her.

And then like everything else online, it takes a bad turn. So she gets another bit of attention in 2016 on Reddit. She says that she took acid once for a week for 10 months. And that gets her to the top of our drugs. Hell yeah. She really, she's a savant. She's been a social media savant for a long time. Oh, my God.

I assume that she's lying about almost everything she says, but like it is, she knows exactly like the right kind of like ways to do this. She wrote in 2014, I did on average 250 micrograms of acid once a week for 10 months from January and October are approximately 40 times. There were times of deliberately induced and absolutely excruciating emotional pain to which nothing in my regular life has ever come close. I did it on purpose. I needed to know.

Okay. She stops cam girling. She stops eating. She goes into like a deep depression. Debt collectors are calling her. Her mom gets sick. Like she's just in a really dark place. And then she kind of like comes out of this period with like a very different personality,

I would say, online. And this is 2016 when she starts polling her Twitter followers and cataloging the results. and publishing them as scientific data. So, like, I know people who went through this exact trajectory, actually. Like, they were, like, kind of quirk chung-a-like burlesque-adjacent people, took too many drugs, and then became, like, hardcore, like, data freaks. Like, this is a thing. And I think the presenting it as scientific, statistically valid data is a really important point, actually.

Because, to be clear, this is not reliable statistical data. At what? This is the result of an online poll from some absolute fucking weirdos. But because of the whole like rationalist thing, she loves to present this stuff as if it has scientific value of any sort. Yeah. And we sort of see that go to the top of like this sphere too. I mean,

how many times have we had to see Elon Musk's site like a Twitter poll he made as like, nope, this is the ultimate truth. And it's like, no, that's just like a bunch of bots and freaks. Like that's, there's no actual truth.

truth here. We have a copy of all the Twitter polls here. There's some gems here, I bet. Here's some from 2016, which gives us a good understanding of the baseline before things get really out of control. Okay, so here's a few. Would you rather bone your GF in your mom's body or your mom in your GF's body if you're a lady, it's BF and dad? Okay. Should public masturbation be considered a crime? If the mafia kidnapped you and forced you to drink one cup of the following, which would you prefer blood or semen. At the time, I remember seeing some of these and just thinking like, these are growth hacks.

Like, she's doing a growth hack. I didn't really sort of see the larger project, I guess. Some of these are designed to get outrage, obviously. Yeah, 100%. Like some of the more extreme ones, especially where she's sort of like talking about CSAM and like, you know, as Josh mentioned in the intro, like stuff around pretty extreme sexual acts.

Yes. And abuse of children. And abuse. Yeah, yeah. She really, a lot of these hypotheticals, I think it's one of those things where like, you kind of have to keep cranking up the outrage meter in order to keep getting those results. And I remember the sort of questions she was asking growing stranger and stranger. Yeah, I think she made that calculation that a lot of people in this sphere have where it's like they know. And they're right for this, that it's impossible to be liked or loved by everyone.

So they're sort of tailoring their own audience to the type of person that like is okay with the sort of stuff. Sort of like a right wing chud coded sphere. Like just like, oh, it's like free speech, bro. Like that kind of person. I find it almost more insidious though than the right. I think in a lot of ways because they refuse to say what they mean and what they're doing to such a degree. So when she starts doing the polling, according to her own account, is she has now started reading rationalist blogs.

So she's reading these sort of AI adjacent blogs, which 10 years ago were like playing in a lot of hypotheticals. And I think we're giving, okay, here's my hot take. I would like to hear your thoughts on this. As the Reddit atheism movement, the new atheism movement sort of like quirk chunguses and collapses in the early 2010. Fedoras were horrible for the movement. Yes, horrible.

I think the rationalist movement sort of took its place as like an area online where like a lot of sort of smug people could like larp as Hitler. Yeah. Basically. There was like that. It sounds like you were there at the ground level of like the new atheist movement. And I was how I was too. And it's like the divergent point was specifically from what I remember it was sort of like at the crossroads.

Like the God question obviously you can only sort of in atheist fears yell at Christians and like different religious figures so much until it gets a little stale. So then it sort of got into the realm of like talking about Islam. And then from there it was like, oh, should we be able to critique it this way? And then it was like sort of the Sam Harris's of it all. We're like, no, this is like uniquely bad. Like they do this, this, that sort of echoing like a George Bushian viewpoint on like Islam specifically. Very sort of like post 9-11 views of Islam. And it was like, for me, I was like, okay, I think this is where I'm going to take my exit.

And then you saw after that a lot of these people are now the same people that are like, Actually, I think trans people should be catalogued. I think we should make lists of trans people. I think homophobia is probably good sometimes. To be clear, I don't think Ala is specifically one of these people. I think she's fine with trans people. I think she's fine with gay people. I think I'm fairly certain of that.

But this whole sphere that she has cultivated, the other people she associates with tend to be these kinds of people. And it's sort of like the outgrowth of, I agree, the old new atheist movement back in the 2010s. Yeah, I think there's something. very darkly funny and ironic about like a bunch of like burned out atheists inventing like a pseudo religion around an inevitable AI apocalypse that they just like talk about all the time. But to your larger point, let me read you some of the titles from this community that she's getting more attached to. Scott Alexander defending pro-scientific racism arguments with, I argue things I don't actually believe. So then why are we doing it?

Economist Robin Hansen raising the idea of sex redistribution, the government forcing women to Buck men, which he totally doesn't actually support. Also, Robin Hansen, father of the prediction market. He's the guy who invented them. Alas Yudkowski, who along with writing Harry Potter fanfic, muses a lot about benevolent AI governments. And so she's now in 2015 going to these meetups where she's meeting like other bloggers and she's sort of kind of absorbing a lot of what they're talking about.

I think her sort of like trick is that. she was able to sort of, I think, authoritatively, apply a lot of the Dumer, AI, end of democracy, neo-reactionary, feudalist sort of talk to sex and gender. And that is sort of what she's still doing to this day is like taking their weird, fucked up way of like wanting to catalog all of human existence and sort of say what is good or bad and sort of apply it to sex and gender. Yeah. And that's her niche in these sorts. At one point she talks about throwing a naked party and says people only talked about global trade, which is, you know, all to say like, I don't want to hang out with her. I wouldn't want to hang out with her. There are a surprising amount of people that do. I, she, didn't she have. Well, to be fair, they mostly want to fuck her. Like that and that's, I think that's the other thing that's worth noting about her whole thing is that because she is fundamentally a sex worker, her entire thing is.

is essentially a huge conversion funnel to her only fans? Yes, the only fans comes a bit later, but she's doing different kinds of sex work and she's carving out this lane that I think is like rewarding her for being more and more reactionary. For example, during the Me Too movement, Ala wrote on her substack, knowing less.

And she writes, The world is not safe for us seems to be the message. I felt weird and confused because I have never felt this despite having been a sex worker. How is it that everyone's getting abused around me and I'm left untouched and ignorant to this? That's an episode of Always Sunny in Philadelphia, by the way. That's like an entire plotline with Mack and his gym teacher.

But then I remembered. I actually was a victim of sexual assault. There were many instances in my life that might qualify. I was molested as a child, stocked and chased in deserted streets. Groped at a party, forced and do a hand job despite clearly and repeatedly saying no. The forced sexual contact was really annoying and uncomfortable, but I wasn't afraid they would hurt me. But with the Me Too campaign, I felt a pressure to view the things that happened to me as part of this systemic abuse narrative.

Please realize I'm not necessarily making an argument against the Me Too campaign. It's very possible that the benefits are greater than this cost. I don't know if Me Too is a net benefit or not, but I see nobody discussing the potential downsides and I feel a cultural pressure not to. So here's a big list of all the systemic abuse I have suffered. And here's why I don't believe that it's systemic abuse, basically. When she says cost, what is she talking about? What does she mean by that? That it's forcing women to think of themselves as victims if these things happen to them.

Right. Her point is she's like, I view these horrible, these things that happen to me as annoying. Right. Nothing. She's not suppressing any feelings there. But if she categorized them as like big life altering changes, it would, it would, that would hurt her more. So our cultural focus of saying we should stop these things. the cost is that now women are going to view themselves as victims.

That just makes me so sad. It is really sad. Yeah. It's sort of like adjacent to this thinking. I'm sure you saw Mark Andresen sort of recently talking about how to be powerful to move the world, you have to have no introspection. You shouldn't think about yourself and things that happen to you and had like impacts off of that. And I mean, it makes sense that some way of these like sort of rationalist like future,

futurist type people like think this way because ultimately it's progress no matter what right like what this is right now is trivial of what's like trivial compared to what's to come so they don't even yeah yeah yeah I think that's where

she is coming from here and I think you're also right that it's like she's sort of trying to do like a have it both ways where it's like she's giving credence to the like oh you know like she can pivot based off of whatever side sort of wins out culturally here I know this is a little

term, and I'm going to use it anyways because, like, we don't really have a replacement. There's this specific kind of centerist pick me that, like, Barry Weiss and Ela are, like, very, very guilty of where it's like, I'm in the boys club. I think this is all a bit much. Like, I saw this so much when I was living in London with, like, yeah, these, like, second wave jacket over a dress with Doc Martin's feminists that were like, it's all a bit, it's all a bit nonsensical, isn't it? like well they're all turfs and they're all sort of like the kind of girl who can like have a cigar with the boys in the back room and then it's like well this woman is doing that and then she's also listing all of the times that she's been abused in those spaces and like you can see the cognitive dissidents just sort of shaking around in this in this blog post that it's yeah sad is the word I would use for it I think she is also just very good at reading the internet like the the mood of the internet I mean just looking at

back at some of her earlier posts she was sort of on the forefront of like that chungus mindset and then and then the chungest mindset the chungus mindset is like such a good like to write just i want to be i i want to be chungus maxing as hard as i can actually i i want to i want to reddit elf wife and i want to learn to make bread and i want to just like have a funco pop bedroom and yes absolutely i just want to be chungis maxing You need some like, you need some very specific gum. Like something like it's, you know, branded to help your job. Oh, doughy and soft.

Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I'm going to start buying. I bet I could get a bunch of American apparel hoodies on eBay right now for like a pretty good price. And I think like she was able to like get that Chungus mindset. She was on the forefront of that. And then right as around 2016, 2015, it sounds like right as sort of like this new fascism sort of. esoteric nihilism is sort of ascendant among a certain section of the online and just like society

generally she was also first of that wave she can really read the room you are so right in fact that is literally what we have next for you which is uh uh think about how much you think about awful things yeah just just a day to day it's like okay wait aela i have to fucking think about aela no hold on you know you guys are are so good at getting me to go off on tangents i have to rant about this because John Piker, I'm a fan. I think he's really talented. He's been on a fucking press tear lately since the Oscars being like, woe is me.

My brain is broken from looking at the internet. And I'm like, this is the best job in the whole world. What are you talking about? I get to sit on the computer all day and look at new freaks. Like, this is not a real job. Every day a new one drops. Oh, I have to like look at the internet all day and think about it. Work in an oil rig if you don't like it.

This is great. I am sorry. What I'll say? Yes, Hassan is a ho- I fuck with Hassan. He's a homie. I love him. Do you think that Hassan Piker has ever watched top 10 hottest Sonic female character? Honestly, Hassan, come on the show.

We will teach you to love the internet again and we will show you Sonic Inflation Fetish Art until you tap out. Like, whatever you want to do. It's about what you consume. It really changes it. Yeah. Did you ever have a period of time where it was it was hurting you and like did you like change how you framed it for yourself?

Yeah, ISIS. Isis was the period where ISIS, this was allowed to post freely on the internet and having to cover that was like not fun because that was like actual that that's not like memes that's like that's like crimes against humanity they were being uploaded to YouTube as music videos

that was not fun the US government does it yeah but like when the US government does it they're using like halo footage and they're like fucking tie what is his name Tyler Sheridan like fucking like Taylor Taylor Sheridan Yellowstone clips like

whatever like someone someone could easily make a a through line argument some paper a book about the isis posting online to donald trump's second term posting online there's a it's identical it's it's completely identical i just need them to not discover marathon they've already already yeah i can't let them take there honestly they should just like you know have someone build sea cot in pocopia or something like you know like uh pal world's probably a better game for that honestly they would do yeah they would yeah um so back to ala as june was sort of

of alluding to, she is learning how to catch these waves as they're happening. Here's some trends. Between 2015 and 2016, it's just like straight up sexual curiosity pulls, a lot of that stuff of like, if you had to like look at child pornography to diffuse a bomb, would you? That kind of shit. Right. Then in 2017, she like, it's a good question when you really think about it. Yeah. Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. The reason they're obsessed with these is because like they have convinced themselves that this AI supercomputer of the future that will like find a way I don't want to go into roco's bascalist right now if people listening want to like learn more about this just Google roco's basilis you can learn all about it but they sort of believe that the the AI of the future will create like extreme moral dilemmas that we must navigate to birth this new AI led society and so they're constantly sort of arguing about this stuff I I would argue that a piece of it too is that they just don't think that taboos are real or have a real purpose, you know? Yeah, and we see some real trends in her Twitter polls.

2017, there's a lot of morality stuff, for instance. Do you believe some viewpoints exist that are so outrageous or offensive that they deserve to be shut down or suppressed? Would you rather get stuck raising a child that's not yours from a woman who cheated on you or lose your hands? 2018, there's more philosophical thought experiments, for instance. in one room a child is about to die in the other room an evil demon is about to raise the cost of all grocery items in the world 2%. You can either save the child or kill the demon,

but not both, which do you choose? Says a lot about society. 2019, we see more cultural war stuff. By 2020, you get questions like this. Putting your potential libertarianism aside, would you support a government program that paid a moderate... I mean, that's a weird assumption to make of her own audience, isn't it?

Yes. Would you support a government program that paid a moderate monthly... stipend of people who've tested positive for severe genetic illnesses as long as they don't reproduce. Obviously, the next, they're very logical through line, yeah? Yeah. And you see how this feeds into one another.

You get very dorm room questions, you know, that try to dehumanize things in really abstract ways. And then you inevitably, you know, start talking about what's best for society. And then, of course, she starts talking about eugenics. We talk a lot about this stuff on ill-conceived also, just like the sort of, you weird pseudo academic sort of alternate stack that they are building. And the craziest thing is that a lot of these organizations have ties to like the old line eugenicist movement at the beginning of the 20th century and a lot of like actual Nazis.

Like not Nazis in the sense that everybody's a fucking Nazi now, but like going back to paid up Nazi party members from the 20s 30s. There's like monetary links over the decades from those to today. That's crazy. And much like eugenicist trying to breed the perfect human, after the break, we're going to talk about Aila trying to solve dating and sex and human hygiene because she's now fully on her rationalist quest. But first, a word from our sponsors, reason.com.

You sort of brought the question of like, how does Aila think about trans, people, sort of gender identity. From what I remember, she's neutral at best. She's not like anti-trans. I could be totally wrong. But my read of her is she is like neutral on like those sort of issues. I imagine her natural Quirk Chunga's Tumblr Girl personality wants to sort of identify as like a demisexual other kin.

In a different world, she would have that in her bio. Yeah. Yeah, but she can't be like plant kin. so she has to figure out like a new way to do it. So in 2019, she writes, I'm starting to dislike using preferred pronouns for non-binary and gender queer people. This is a really controversial thing to say on my social circles. But whenever I use a preferred pronoun, it feels a bit like I'm playing a game of pretend.

But my brain does not play along. It sits on my shoulder like a child. She's a woman, it says. She's a woman. And you're pretending, I mean, she used non-binary pronouns for her brain in just in that sentence. So it's not that hard They can do and feel and present however they want And it's none of my business

You do you man But it sort of becomes my business When they're asking me to change my behavior and thoughts This leads to fear of being honest With most people who ask me to use preferred pronouns And I feel sad about that It's I don't know I mean it's like I'm not gonna talk to you anyway lady

It will never be an instance where you have to refer to me Yeah yeah and it's also one of those things It's like you see this like Ben Shapiro Best example always will be the best example. Being interviewed by, I forget who, but talking about how, like, if you saw someone who's, like, presenting as a woman, like, it's like, you're not, like, actively, it's not something you actively think about it.

It's a, it's a, like, social presentation thing. If someone is presenting as a woman, your brain will almost certainly automatically gender that person how they are presenting. And to that point in that interview, he accidentally genders the person correctly and then has to correct themselves to be, like, transphobic to gender them incorrect. And it's like it's not something that people have to actively think about it. It's very performative whenever these people are like, oh, it's like tearing me apart. It's like it's not.

Like you're performing for you are tearing me apart, gender. They then. It's a very performative thing. Even even like the most hateful among like J.K. Rowling like all these people. It's all so performative. This is a great point from Grant's non-binary partner who uses they them pronouns. They said, isn't her whole thing playing pretend with hypotheticals? Yeah

Yeah So can't really handle that I guess too much I can imagine a God computer In the future that can put you in cyber health For eternity but can't imagine using The computer It doesn't know they them

The computer can't figure it out Yeah yeah like computer has gender Essentialist thoughts It only has one in zero Yeah That's right Literally binary There's only two classifications

of human being in the eventual AI apocalypse Who can be hooked up to some sort of milking machine and who can't. And I'm not talking about like milk. I, before, when you started that sense, I was like, Ryan's about to talk about milking machines. I'm in your brain, Grant.

It's disgusting what China is doing with those machines. It's disgusting that they still have Jordan Peterson hooked up to one of those. He's tapped out. There's no milk apps. I'm trying. I'm dry. Please. Okay.

Let's get into this sort of decline I talked about before the break. She starts working on a game theory-informed dating app in 2018, which involves like cryptocurrency, obviously. 2019, she moves into, quote, a big Bay Area rationalist group house. You know it smells amazing. Oh, shit. Oh, you know. Shit, literally.

Yeah. She starts an only fan's a year later, which. gets her a GQ cover story about her use of the platform. She is obviously still conducting her surveys. She gets in trouble in April 2020 for having a Twitter poll that reads, you get into a discussion, oh my God, you get into a discussion about the N-word about how it's used and societal attitudes towards it. Your black friend says you don't have to say the N-word. You can just say it directly in this conversation. It's okay. And then do you say it directly? No, stick with the N word.

Yes, with an A at the end. Yes, with an R. No, I think, come on. Okay. What's the tweet? Like, everyone's 12 now. Like, this is just like fucking, like, this is stupid shit. Can't figure out they, them, but is in a scenario where she has to say the N word or else.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. These people are dumb. Like, and I think, oh, yeah. I remember this experience when I was covering the crypto industry for magazines right after COVID, which was honestly, like, the best reporting job I've ever had. These people are fucking freaks. And like, do you ever talk to Vitalik Buteran?

I never met him. No, I met a few other like heads of dapsonship, but never him, no. Because that was one where I also remember when the whole crypto boom was happening. I was like, well, I should see what the like intellectual underpinnings of this shit. Big mistake. And so a huge mistake because I went and I read his blog. Yeah. And I was like, this guy doesn't know anything about anything.

Yeah. Not only is he, like, ill-informed. He doesn't even know what he doesn't know. Yeah, it's awesome. He doesn't understand that, like, all of these problems he is trying to solve, that other people have tried to solve these problems in different ways. And therefore, his solution is doomed to fail because he is repeating past mistakes. Yeah, it's so sick.

I just remember, like, I think I was, like, outside of a convention, maybe in Miami or something. And I just had this, like, overwhelming feeling of, like, oh, everyone here is fucking stupid. Or they're being stupid on purpose to make money. Like these people are either predators or dupes. It's a thing that like it was very free. It's still happening right now is like these people will say these controversial things for really no reason. There's like nothing to be gained here.

But what's what they are actually gaining what the real purpose of it is is just that they get to laugh about that and the reaction to that in their group chats and feel like really cool and like countercultural. I mean, you still even see that from people like, as I mentioned before, Mark Andresen. I don't know if either of you have been like watching how he's been posting recently, but he's like sounds indistinguishable from like a school shooter like 19 year old. And it's like he's like bro is 50. Why is he talking like indisinguishable from like a clavicular like post on like Twitter? Like some weird like kick streaming Twitter account. It's because they want to feel cool.

They want to feel countercultural. They want to feel like a counterweight to like normal like a political. society. But in turn, what it really just feels like is they're just sort of like school shooter posting. I've talked about this in the show before, but like I volunteered to special needs camp every summer and I've been doing since I was a kid with my dad. And I have a pretty hard line about, you know, the special needs community. And the return of the R word, I think, has just been a disaster for America. And the fact that someone like Mark Endrieson can say the word retard maxing on a podcast and get no pushback.

from anyone in his industry sort of deflated me in a way that like I wasn't really anticipating. This return is like being led by like 40 and 50 year olds who like want to be cool. They want to be in the limelight of posting. They want to be what like early Twitter like what was it called normal Twitter? What was that called like the original like word drill all those like original. Oh weird Twitter. Yeah. Normal Twitter.

That's yeah. I mean it's these days weird Twitter feels like normal Twitter. And hey, that's what I'm saying. Like they want to be like that new wave of whatever that is for themselves. Yeah. I think that breaking people down into categories and then sort of removing those categories of people from public discourse or even being seen as people altogether, that's the point of the project. And that's the point of bringing slurs like that back as well. Because if you can categorically say people who have like intellectual support needs aren't really people.

people like you and me, then yeah, you're going to be able to cleave away against more and more and more people to put yourself on a higher and higher path. Especially because all this coming through a man who looks like goddamn lumpdown. He looks like an egg. I'm not about it. He looks like a little egg. And all these people have a lot of thoughts about eugenicism, which is interesting. They do.

What you guys were saying about sort of like this being a way to break society down and sort of change it is best actually summed up by a post from Ala in 2021 titled In Defensive Edginess. Oh, wow. Could you imagine anything more aggressively 2021 than that title? Jesus fucking Christ. She writes, Imagine you are mean. Don't have a lot of empathy and enjoy making people mad.

I would say you just become a podcaster. That's right. You go on the internet and you post the most provocative takes you can find. Maybe Trump should be grabbing more women by the pussy. you tweet on one account and I'm not sure we shouldn't be discussing white extermination on the other. Yeah. I mean, honestly, that second one goes pretty hard. Like white extermination, see my band.

And people say, why are you being so edgy and or you seem to be getting off on making people upset? Now imagine you live in a society. Oh, okay. Thinking about it. Imagine you live in a society where pedophilia is. is the norm and children are forced to engage in sex acts on adults. Sure, man. Okay.

Yeah, let's imagine it. What, what, what wonderful truth will this thought experiment? Josh, I can't wait to find out. Josh, imagine you live in a society where bananas or bicycles. And so imagine you live in a society where pedophilia is the norm and children are forced to engage in sex acts on adults. You think real hard about this, conclude it's really bad and then run around going, hey, we're literally traumatizing children. This is horrible for our culture. maybe we should stop and people say why are you being so edgy in my ideal world my friends and i would

sit around figuring out what sorts of thoughts we don't want to think because to me this is inherently interesting and fun i absolutely relish the rare occasion when someone asks me a question that triggers unexpected disgust in me i am not bad i am not cackling like an asshole who wants to watch the internet burn i'm childlike in this and i actively enjoy my own discomfort and want to share that enjoyment with others. This is so fucking homeschool, Brian. It's so goddamn dumb. It's really, truly the sorts of thoughts you could only have if you didn't grow up

around other people already kind of having these discussions when you were 12 years old, you know? And then when you get a bit older than that, coming to the circle and be like, hey guys, check this out. What if everybody was a pedophile? And then having everybody be like, what are you talking about? I don't want to be around you know, like that's the normal reaction to people saying something like that. But if you haven't had the shit kicked out of you, if you haven't been ostracized for being a fucking unpleasant weirdo, you're going to be like, well, I'm just a little different.

A little bit of a pedophile junk. It's like it's also one of those things where it's like, she strikes me as a person. I'm sure you've run across these people that are like, well, if you don't have God in society, how are you going to figure out what morals are. I don't know. Things that hurt people are bad and should not be good. You should not harm other people. That's like you don't need a God there to know what is hurtful to other people. But like that doesn't register for some people. And she that's sort of like the same mindset she has. It's like where she's like wow, it's like really deep if you think about like what if everyone was pedophile. It's like no that would literally not ever happen like.

Right. And it's also like what if man like that's not an interesting question. You know what I mean? I think that's the thing that really gets me is not, oh, God, I'm so triggered by this world in which everybody is a pedophile. It's just like, I don't, there's no utility in that thought experiment. It doesn't tell us anything. I think, I think, it's, it's in a name. People confuse, maybe purposely, maybe they genuinely don't understand what the reaction is. They think being annoyed and just repulsed by people is like triggering the lips. So when people are like, oh, this is like kind of fucking an insane thing to say, they're like, triggered.

It's like, I mean, no, I'm like pointing and laughing at you. Like, I'm laughing at how insane you are. Like, there was no triggering happening here. This also just like to me screams of someone who like has no cultural awareness because like, so like, okay, in college, I had a group of friends that we would do. I think, what do we call it? Like, sexy murder Sundays or something where we would try to find the most transgressive. just horrific piece of film we could watch, right? Okay.

Salo 120 days of Sodom or whatever. A Serbian film, dog tooth. Human centipy. I think we didn't do human centip because we were all like, that's kind of lame. Like this one isn't really going to bother us. Yeah. Magic mic.

Magic mic. Yeah. But what was so like kind of nice about doing that in a college setting at that time was like actually like learning to appreciate and understand transgressive art and like understand the point of it. And that is why I find it extremely tedious if I'm in a room and someone's like,

what if the whole world was pedophiles? I'm like, nah, man, what if my stomach was a VCR? What if I was James Woods and I had to cut Debbie Harry's nipples off because my stomach was a VCR? What if I was sexually attracted to car crashes?

Like the world is so much larger and more interesting when you actually sort of have a barometer for like genuinely upsetting weird art. Yeah, and this is boring. This is boring. Shit. In order to have that, you need to have an actual perspective, both artistically and rhetorically. You can't just be addicted to asking edgy questions. You have to have the desire and the willingness to do something with it.

Right. And so like all of these people in Silicon Valley who are doing all this, like to me, I just look at them and I think you have no awareness of like human history before you because all of these questions have been asked. Art has been made about them. Like, people have been writing about this. These are not new. They're not interesting. And because you've slapped AI, it's sort of the end goal of your philosophy. You feel like it has sort of a renewed interest, but it doesn't. There's nothing there.

And I think post-COVID that's becoming clear that it's having diminishing returns for these people. Yeah. But where does that leave these dork chunguses that have made this their brand? And AILUS case, the stunts have only gotten bigger. The gang bang? The gang bang. So a bit of prolog here. It has ruined flowcharts for me.

God damn it. Yeah, we're going to start with a little bit of prologue, and she publishes her 22 stats. Oh, yeah. Because, yeah, how can you be logical without keeping any data? And so her 22nd2 stats include this year I went outside 222 times. I pooped 194 times. Bad, real. Oh, she's going to.

I'm worried about her. bad actually she did clarify that's not the amount of times per day that's like she poop she pooped yeah and it so she pooped she pooped she pooped more than that but there were 194 days on which she pooped so there was like 160 days where she did not that's like that's that's still half the year that she wasn't that's worrisome yeah that's really bad that's you gotta get some fiber you got to be yeah this girl's got a turd in the chamber folks. Oh, wait, hold on, guys.

There's an explanation here. Took Adderall 126 times. That would explain it. Okay, yeah. Okay. She had sex 63 times. Okay.

And then, of course, one of honestly the grossest things I've ever seen on the internet, she showered 37 times. Crazy. So just so we all have that. uh, 365.

She showered every 10 days or so. Yeah. That's astounding. See, like the, the best reading possible is like, did she mean like she didn't, like, shampoo and condition her hair?

Or did she like just straight up not touch water for like 10 days? I think she's like, dry. I think she's not moist. I think she is probably moist, actually because she had not showering every,

Sex, then showers by twice by double margin. She did. Yeah, I didn't say that. I'll tell you know she's cool. She had sex 63 times, we only shower 37. So that's actually dangerous. This girl is not pooping and she's not showering after sex. Look, I don't kink shame here.

Maybe someone's into that. There's probably someone really into that. I'm just thinking about the times that I have gone for more than like four days without showering, which is like when I'm sick, you know. and I literally can't do it and how bad I smell after that time and I am now imagining showering once every 10 day.

Yeah, it's insane. And to be clear, she says she doesn't smell and has like retrained her body to clean itself. But things get obviously worse for us having to talk about this. Yeah, for sure. In 2023, she posted a dating profile on a prediction market.

she accuses time of lying that there's misogyny in the rationalist scene as everyone is sort of like gambling over her sex life. And then we get to the gang bang. So February 2024, Ala has her birthday gang bang. As you do. She has a blog about it, which I fucking shit you not opens with a Nelson Mandela quote. That's good. insane. She's so good at this. Yeah, she's so fucking good at this.

I kind of love her as the fire. You can apply to date her. I watched a video of like John Mayer like playing guitar recently and this is what it feels like reading her blogs. Like this is that. This is the thing is like say what you will about her and her insane takes,

but she is a fucking savant. She knows what she's doing. She can post. The quote, by the way, the Vandella quote that she uses is I learned, I learned that courage was not the absence of fear, but the triumph over it. The brave man is not who he is not he who does not feel afraid, but he who conquers that fear. This is what I say to myself when I am prepping my whole.

Here, let me, I can show you the robes that the men and attendance were given, which read, I went to the Aela birth, B-Day gang-bang, and all I got was, this bathrobe and also to fuck a porn star. This is so fucking quirk chung-chung-ish, it's there. It's always there. The previous quirk Chungus to like edgy nihilist, like they have it in them. Any of these like edgy people, you see them talk in person, it's like, oh, it's just a dweeb chungus. Yeah. These are the, this is a huddle of fluffers in the pre-game huddle. That's great. Love that. Love that. Another quirk chungus thing here is a sticker that she handed out for her gang bang.

Oh, yeah. The entire orgy cost $3,335, I'm seeing. Yeah, I mean, that's, I imagine there's some sort of buffet. I think it's usually what it is. She must have taken care of her for gusts. Oh, I'll tell you what, though. She's probably looking like a damn snack. I'd eat the whole fucking buffet.

Folks, folks. Well, we have data on who ate the buffet who didn't, sort of. And Josh is in there, actually. We found them. So here, that's right. Here's the flow chart kind of thing. of the gangbang data. So we've got

1,600 people Yeah, 1600 people responded to her survey. 800 of them didn't pass the auto filter. A couple more filters. We end up with 250 people contacted. End up with 87 invites.

56 of those get tickets. 43 of them do STD testing. It's interesting. All 25 friends immediately passed the screening whereas 83 of them who were not friends had to interview, of which 21 were rejected. Yeah, that is interesting data. 42 people showed up.

Five didn't bang her. 37 penetrated her. And then I don't want to read the last one here because it's just like gross. You don't want the cum breakdown? What's wrong with the cum breakdown? I don't want to read the cum breakdown. The most important part. Okay.

Right. I think you should read the come. Okay. So then finally there's a cum breakdown. And 17 people came in her and seven and five people came in the fluffer and 15 people didn't come. That's crazy that 15. That's a lot. Yeah.

They had three minutes to have sex with her and a long line to wait. Were they all dudes? I imagine. Okay, wait. So 10 women attended. Oh. Two to help out and just look hot and run the coat check. And then there were eight fluffers.

Got it. So all the women in attendance were... And I do remember this. There was a whole detail that was going around that, like, one of the men fell in love with one of the fluffers. Oh, my God. Many such cases. I mean, that happened. Yeah.

You know that song, I'm in love with a stripper? What if it was a fluffer? I'm a love with a fluffer at a rationalist gang bang. Good. I was actually thinking true love will find you in the end, you know? And, yes. Chances are she did not shower either before or after this, because she was, she was. She said that she only showered 24 times in 2024.

Oh. Oh. That's way less. That's way less. That's like once every 15 days. That's like, yeah, that's like once like that's. She was she was basking in this afterwards for, for, what would that be like two weeks? Yeah.

Just marinating in it. Not the fortnightly shower. Hypothetical for you. If you're kidnapped by the mafia and you have the choice of of sharring before the gang bang, right after the gang bang. But you have to pick one. Right. Which would Aaliyah pick? It depends on whether the mafia are pedophiles or not. I don't know why it depends, but it does.

So that's the story of that. I hate all of this. I mean, I enjoy, I should say, I enjoy talking about this. I just, I think that she is a curious figure. And so as we wind down today, I would love you guys, like, parting thoughts here about, like, what this all means. because like the fact that we are aware of her and know her and like that matters i think in a way like that says something that we have to know who this person is i think for me it's she looking at her past she will always be amongst us she sort of she will be among us she will be among us

six seven six seven six seven um sorry uh but like she knows where the winds are always blowing she so like she is in this current rationalist space maybe because she is partially there herself but i think she understands that it's like sort of a good way to market herself it's sort of an audience that she has captured at this point and i think that if the winds blow continue to blow in some different direction going forward we will find herself at the apex of another different movement, whatever that might be. I think she is just like a really perfect example of someone that knows how to occupy a lot of people's minds for just like insane reasons. One thing I will add to that is that the nice thing about her is that if you're standing

fairly close to her, you'll always know which way the wind is blowing, at least if you're downwind. Yeah. Yeah. And I think and I think that was the But I think it's like it's no mistake that she is like surrounding herself by or she's being surrounded by a lot of these like tech leaders like Mark Andreessen. She has like a lot of overlap with a lot of the people running and ruining the world right now. And that's also no coincidence. These people want to create like an alternative edgy ecosystem of like intellectuals, of academics,

of journalists that don't quite fit. in, right? It's sort of like a, she is, she is doing this for her own purposes, but a lot of people around her, especially above her with the money, are sort of maybe not propping her up with money, but, you know, like, if she is in their orbit for a specific ideological purpose. Something that I think I'm interested in is just the rise of the sort of specialist e-girl. And I think she very much falls into that category, right, where there are lots of different people who are, you know, adult content creators who understand that in order to capture a specific market, you need to present yourself in a certain way. Now, to be clear, I don't think that's why

she's doing everything of what she's doing. I think she's also in it for the love of the game. But I think that a lot of the reason that these sort of influential tech people are so into her shit is that they're also subscribing to her only fans. And so there's an interesting sort of given take there in terms of she is providing them with a sort of type of content that they are interested with engaging with and jorking it to but then on the flip she then is able to gain a profile from the fact that they do engage with her content you know what i mean yeah i i think you're both correct and i think that like you can kind of see in her trajectory the creation of this new sphere of culture and influence in Silicon Valley, which I think has been very confusing for a lot of people

because I even am sort of confused by this because you would think that the people who created the way the internet works now would know things about it, like have any sort of like context. And what we learned is like they all left COVID lockdown and revealed that they didn't. They weren't paying attention for the last 15 years. And so it has been sort of maddening to, watch these people reinvent like the cringiest shit from first principles over and over again. And she is an example of that. She is, she is doing the exact same thing on X that and substack that she was doing on 4chan literally 10, 15 years ago.

And that sucks. That just, I think that sucks. I think that sucks for everybody. It feels like eternal September, but for like all of American culture over and over and over again. I feel like it's worse because on 4chan, she was trying to be funny. Like, like, I would, hold on. I would hesitate to, to say that she's not being funny. I think that, like, there's always kind of this, like, assumption that the weird freaks online are totally serious. And I think that's doubly true for when women are being weird freaks online. But, like,

I bet you there's, like, a good sense of irony running through this whole thing. Like, the gang bang shit is a joke. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I would even guess like maybe the shower rings a joke. Like, uh, you know, my mate, my brain is telling me that it has to be a joke. Um, but like I, I don't think that she is super self serious. I think that she is, she is amusing herself and I think that she's having fun in a way that she thinks is fun. No, no, I don't, I don't think she's in an evil mastermind.

But like, the stakes have raised. Well, she has a closer connection to power. Yes. And influence. Yeah. You know, like like, like undercording like, oh, I'm doing these like fun little sex surveys is like libertarians being like, yes. No.

Like, we don't. need scientific method to record data. All these things undergird it, which is different than like, I had some white face pain, and now I'm going to be a mime that's locked inside of my chair. No one had a problem with Rasputin when he was a weird monk in the woods. Everyone had a problem when he had the ear of the royal family. I think I see what you're saying too great. Like there's a, there's a category.

Right? Yeah. There is a there is a categorical difference between I am going to stage some photos where I'm getting dragged away by gnomes versus how do we feel about you Joe? Oh 100% or like brian or like Brian Johnson in her life there's like I'm doing this goofy thing in my room versus like this data is informing like should be used to inform like I'm a pioneer of self experimentation for optimizing myself is like a drastically. different thing. And I think the thing that all of this represents is sort of like the cultural shift of a lot of the like athe-as

as we were talking about earlier, like the more atheist like oh, let's like really think about things. Sort of philosophy mindset with like the the Chungus mindset of the 2010s and how that shifted into sort of this like futurist

like nihilist school shooting school shooter mentality type posting of like the tech world today and like Silicon Valley. I think it's like she represents like almost sort of like the perfect representation of a lot of these people's evolution out of the Chungus into the into the into the into the fire into the into the nihilism into the fire into the chunges and into the fire. Yeah out of the chunges and into the fire.

I want to thank you guys for coming on. This is this is great. Genuinely a pleasure is always. Always. If people want to follow you on the internet, where can they do that? Josh, you want to go first? Oh, sure. Yeah, absolutely. Well, I co-host a podcast called Ill Conceived with my co-host, June. Hi. Sitting here as well. We talk about natalism, which is the ideology that sees declining birth rates as the most important issue facing the world right now, which is not our position. But we're very interested in interrogating the people who do have that position. I wonder if Ella has ever talked about natalism, actually.

I bet you she has. Is she on a birth rate kick? Let's see. We'll have to look into it. Well, she's on finding the perfect partner to have babies. Ah, yeah, eight months ago, eight months ago, I keep saying the reason for low birth rate is that our quality of life has increased in almost all aspects besides child rearing. The more luxury we have access to, the more luxury we lose out on by having kids.

Yeah, there we go. And then, yeah, classic Ella thing, too, where it seems like a materialist taking a Marxist sense. Oh, no. Oh, no, no. Last summer, she published on Substack, I'm confused about birth rate and gays and a bunch of... Oh, God. Oh, dude, Josh, we're going to have to do an episode about her.

We're going to have to do an episode about Ella. Because it sounds to me, like a lot of her ideas and assumptions are very similar to a lot of the people we talk about on our show. Oh, birth order and gays, but she's also obsessed with birth. Yeah, like whether or not the order in which you're born determines whether you're gay or not is like a thing that floats. around a lot. She's also obsessed with birth control, birth rates. Oh yeah, you should absolutely do an episode on her. Oh, we're going to. I also co-host a podcast called the worst of all possible

worlds, and we talk about media, media culture. We do analysis of a different piece of media every week. We have a particular interest in weird reactionary guys there as well. And so one of our topic, our common topics conversation is the children's radio drama Adventures in Odyssey, a focus on the family production. If those words have done anything to your brain just now, you should go check out our show. I think you'll have a good time. And also, thank you both so much for having me on again.

I had a blast. Thank you so much. June, where can people follow you? So, of course, ill-conceived. Keep your eyes open for maybe an Ella episode. That'll maybe happen probably at some point. But I also do a show called Kill the Computer with my co-host, Caleb. We sort of just talked about how like the internet spills into the real world, just sort of like the convergence that we've seen of like a lot of technology like AI, a lot of like AI freaks and like how that influences the politics that we see around us today.

So we recently just talked about like the intentional political strategy of like MAGA music, for example. And just like the undergirding ideology and mechanisms underlying that. So just, yeah, stuff like that we talk about on that show. Check it out if that sounds interesting. Thanks, guys. Yeah, thank you. Panic World is a production of Courier. It is written and produced by Grant Irving and hosted by me, Ryan Broderick.

Josh Fielstedt is our production coordinator and our amazing researcher is Adam Bumis. From Courier is Shane Verkes, who edits our video episodes, along with our producer, Kevin Maroney and National Managing Director and Executive Producer Kevin Dreyfus. R.C. DeMezzo is their VP of Brand and Sondon. Social. Charlotte Robinson is their deputy director of brand and social. Mary Ann Couga is their director of marketing. And Tracy Kaplan is the senior vice president of sales and distribution. If you want to sponsor the show or give us products to sell, she's the one to talk to. You can email her at Tracy at courier newsroom.com. Lastly, here's my advice for you. Chill out and touch grass while you

still can.