Part Of The Problem - Cenk Uygur

Episode Date: June 3, 2026

Dave Smith brings you the latest in politics! On this episode of Part Of The Problem, Dave is joined by Cenk Uygur! They discuss Cenk's experience being blocked from entry to the U.K, the mainstream media losing the propaganda war, the relationship between Trump and Netanyahu which led to the conflict with Iran, and more. Support Our Sponsors:CrowdHealth - https://www.joincrowdhealth.com/promos/potpProlon - https://prolonlife.com/potpSuperpower - Head to Superpower.com and use code PROBLEM at checkout for $20 off your membership. Unlock your new health intelligence. 100+ biomarkers. Every year. Detect early signs of 1,000+ conditions. #superpowerpodPart Of The Problem is available for early pre-release at https://partoftheproblem.com as well as an exclusive episode on Thursday!PORCH TOUR DATES HERE:https://robbernsteincomedy.com/eventsFind Run Your Mouth here:YouTube - http://youtube.com/@RunYourMouthiTunes - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/run-your-mouth-podcast/id1211469807Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/show/4ka50RAKTxFTxbtyPP8AHmFollow the show on social media:X:http://x.com/ComicDaveSmithhttp://x.com/RobbieTheFireInstagram:http://instagram.com/theproblemdavesmithhttp://instagram.com/robbiethefire#libertarian See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

What's up, everybody. Welcome to a brand new episode of Part of the Problem. I'm very excited for today's episode. Very quickly, before we get started, one of your final reminders, this Friday, me and Robbie the Fire, Bernstein, will be up in Toronto doing stand-up shows at Park Hall. I forget the name of the theater, but Comic-Davsmith.com, I've been told the shows will be sold out by either tonight or midday tomorrow. So jump on them now, if you want to come. I haven't been in Toronto in many years, and I'm looking forward to,

to returning. Presuming I'm allowed. Presuming that Canada is not operating under the same state of mind as the UK. Anyway, for our guest for today's show, of course, as some of you can see, I'm sure he needs no introduction with any of you guys, the longtime host and founder of the Young Turks. Jank Huger, how are you, brother? Good to see you. Great to see you, Dave. And good news. I was just up in Vancouver last month, and they did not ban me. So the Canadian still believe in freedom. Okay, or at least some degree of it there. At least the freedom to criticize Israel and still pop in and do an event there. You know, I should, I almost feel like I need to mention before we get started that, because I saw you've, just yesterday, I watched your

appearance on Pierce Morgan and on breaking points. And it seems already when I have you on today, like we did this in response to you being kicked out or not allowed to enter the UK. But actually, me and you had been texting a few days earlier and we were planning on doing a podcast anyway but since this is the big news let's uh start off with that so just quickly take us through like how exactly did this go down you're going over to the UK as far as you're concerned you're going to go give a speech and then do an episode of the pierce morgan a debate on the pierce morgan show and how do you find out this none of this will be happening yeah so um i go to the airport i got a big luggage because i was going to go uh to London first, South by Southwest,

and then a bunch of interviews, peers, LBC, BBC, etc. And then we're going to go to Oxford. I was going to give a speech Friday night on Oxford Speaks. And then Saturday night, Hassan and I were going to do a speech and event together at Oxford Union.

And so, and, you know, I really look forward to that. My sister, who is Hassan's mom, was especially looking forward to it, a nice moment for her, where her son and her brother speak at Oxford together. We actually had to check to see if my sister and my wife were also banned because you

never know, right? But obviously there's not much point in going when we're banned. But so I get to the airport and they say, well, we're having trouble with it. So let's come over to the terminal with us and let's take a closer look at it. And I was like, what are they having trouble over? Because I already had a visa from having gone there last year, right? And those ETAs, as they're called, the last two years. And I had already double checked and I had a DTA number with me. And I figured it's just a bureaucratic issue. And then the lady goes, I've never seen this, but you're rejected by the British government.

You're not allowed to enter the country so we can't let you board the flight. And I was like, what? And I was genuinely shocked. I didn't expect that at all. And I had heard before that they were, you know, might do something about Hassan because some labor party MP was complaining about him, but it didn't even occur to me that they would do anything about me. I mean, Hassan has at least said a couple of lines that are considered outrageous, right? They got nothing on me, right? Because I don't say that stuff. I suggest,

do I do super strong criticism of Israel? Yes, but it's all above the board and et cetera. And so I didn't even quite know, but I knew, right? I mean, it's not complicated. Who's the, what's the only thing that has that kind of power and is against me, right? It's not like, like I have a lot of enemies and all the lobbyists hate me, but it's not like third way could get me banned from the United Kingdom, right? So some think tank in D.C. that's pro-corporate. Anyways, then I, 15 minutes later, I get the Times article explaining, yeah, that I've been banned for criticizing Israel, in essence.

Yeah, and so again, one of the things that's so strange about this is that, So presumably the Times is getting this information from somebody in the UK government, if they're saying, we have sources telling us this. And there's just something so strange about the fact that, okay, so the UK government will tell the New York Times what's going on here, but won't put out a public statement, like won't make the rules clear. So we maybe have an idea. I mean, honestly, you know, you texted me right afterwards.

And you were like, oh, brother, I wouldn't make any plans in the UK. And I was, I mean, I don't have final plans, but I was planning on next year trying to do a theater show over there and maybe do a live Pierce episode or something. So now it's like it is in this weird limbo like, well, are we not allowed to go? Or is it just because again, it's not, I just want to be clear about this. It's not because I just, just to be very clear, I don't care. like you're not a Jew hater. You're a critic of Israel, but you're one of the guys who, you know, bends over backward to be very clear that that's not what you're saying.

But to be clear, even if you were, you still have a right to be. And I think like it's almost like, so I don't want to get into that game of being like, hey, hey, we're not those guys. Because like even those guys have a right. You have a right to have whatever feelings you have about any group of people because that's what it is to be a free human being. Like we're either free men or we're slaves. And if we're free men, we have a right to have whatever feelings we have.

about anyway you don't have a right to um act violently on on feelings or victimize people but anyway it does kind of make you like wonder is the standard that you're a critic of israel because and i know you made this point uh the other day um but you're like you know that is a larger and larger percentage of the global population people who are critics of israel so what are you like where are you really going to draw this line do you have to have a big YouTube following also. You know what I mean? Like our regular people? Because you might shut down 80% of England's tourism if you were to enforce the rule that any critic of Israel isn't allowed to step foot on your soil. A hundred percent. So there's so much to go over there. So let me just,

it go as quickly as I can through all of it. Number one, you're totally right, right? So like they went and told the papers in this case, it was actually the times of in the UK. And And so first they say, hey, Jank, you're, you know, the only stated reason publicly is that my mistake. My mistake. It was the times of the UK, not the New York Times. So I'm a big deal. So they say that I'm a danger to the public order, which is kind of badass and I kind of like it. Right.

So like if I enter a room, watch out. Mayhem's going to break out. Oh, okay. I'm apparently an enemy of the crown. First, let me just say that Dave, you're also right. that who cares what they think? So, you know, we, peers asked me about Valentina Gomez, who's also been banned, her having bigoted opinions about Muslims.

It was like, why is she banned? Who cares? So she's a clown and it's easy to defeat her. And so why would anybody be scared or intimidated enough to ban her, right? So it's just, let's have the marketplace of ideas, man. Some skinhead telling us to hate Jews or Muslims or whoever is not going to end the world. It's stay we've had skinheads our whole lives here and you know I drive the groipers and Israel first crazy by saying I love Jews Uh so but I got Jewish family what do you want me to do not love them right this is insanity. I'm with you yeah right so like what a crazy crazy standard but it's hilarious that the groipers and Israel first degree right that's the most interesting part and so they're like blame the Jews blame the Jews I'm like no I'm not going to that doesn't make any logical sense you have to blame the you know

in favor of the ideology, not just random people who were born into a religion, right? Well, you know, I had, it's funny because I had literally on the show, just as a few weeks ago, so I had, I had, I had, Fentes on the show. And every time I have him on, or the couple times I've had him on, we always get into some type of, like, you know, is it Israel, it's, it's, like I say it's Israel in the lobby, you say it's, it's Jews. And then what exactly do you mean by that? What exactly do I mean by this. And when he gets into it, he's not just saying, it's the Jews. It's every single Jew. That's not exactly his case. There's something more sophisticated than that. But he'll be going like, look, it's Jewish money. It's Jewish organizations. It's this. And then I'll be like,

yeah, but there's a whole bunch of Christian money and Christian organizations that are also involved in the lobby. And so it doesn't really make sense for any to character. But anyway, so I literally, so I have Puentes on the podcast. And he's like, no, it's the Jewish money. And then it was like two days later that John Podhariths comes out. after Thomas Massey's campaign, and he goes, good, it should be known that Jewish money will come get you if you are a threat to the Jewish people. And so to your point, it was very striking to me to just see that there is, like, while I'm sitting here and arguing, there's a consensus from Commentary Magazine and Nick Fuentes that, no, it is the Jews. And like, I don't know,

there is something very interesting about that. And part of these things, I sometimes feel like almost were speaking past each other because obviously me and you wouldn't be denying that Miriam Adelson's money is like Jewish money. Like she's a Jewish person and it's her money. But we would probably feel like calling it Jewish money just gives this implication that you're like blaming a group. Why don't we just call it Miriam Adelson's money? Because she's the one doing it. Is that like more or less? Yeah. So that's actually a super important point. So let's stay on that for a second. Then we'll go back to Britain.

Actually, I can't. So, okay. So look, there's more than one way to look at something. You know, you say two things can be true at the same time, but actually like eight things can be true at the same time. Right. So for example, with Mary Madelson, you can call it female money. But wait, is that the defining characteristic, right?

Vegas money, Macau money, right? You can call it all of those things. And actually, if you called it Chinese money, there's a little bit more truth to that. That's actually a little bit more descriptive because one of the main things that the Ailsons asked for from Trump in his first term was a repatriation tax holiday, which allowed them to bring back their money, which the great majority of which they make in China and Macau in their casinos there. Instead of getting a 35% tax rate, they got an 8% tax rate and that saved them billions of dollars, which they then used to bribe Trump even. more and get more things that they wanted, including for things for Israel. So my point is, you can make those choices and those choices are kind of interesting. And the choice that I would make is to categorize them by their ideology instead of their physical features or what

they were born into. So, you know, I was born Muslim and so was some vicious terrorists, right? but we're not in the same bucket because we don't have the same ideology. You were born Jewish and Mary Madelson was born Jewish, but you guys are not in the same bucket because you don't have the same ideology. So if you said like Zionist money or Israel First money, etc., that's at least more descriptive and gets towards the ideology. But if you say Jewish money, that's actually not that accurate. Because none of the Jewish friends I have, which are like and family, like I say,

like dozens and dozens of people that I know on a very personal level and then hundreds of people that I know as acquaintances, almost none of them agree with Miriam Adelson. Almost none of them agree with Benjamin Netanyahu. So why are we lumping them in with Miriam, right? Agreed. Agreed. Sorry, just to add to that, like very, I also do think,

and I know I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I know the polls would bear this out, that because obviously look like Miriam Adelson is Jewish, and that has something to do with her Zionist identity. It's not that the things are completely separate. But honestly, if you were to take a look at like attitudes about any of these things in America, a generation is such a better predictor than Jewish Christian Muslim. I mean, like if you're talking about old Christian, you know, boomer, Fox News, boomer con, you know, Christians,

they're going to be way more in line with the Israel lobby. And if you're talking about 30-year-old Jews, they're like voting for Mom Dani in New York City. like they're not on board with the program. Just to back up, you know, your point there. All right, guys, let's take a moment and thank our sponsor for today's show, which is Prolon by El Nutra. Prolon is a plant-based nutrition program featuring soup, snacks, and beverages designed to nourish the body while keeping it in a fasting state.

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slash P-O-T-P to claim your 15% discount and your bonus gift, prolonlife.com slash P-O-T-P. All right, let's get back into the show. Yeah, 100%. And they're watching the Young Turks. They're watching Dave Smith. They're watching us.

No, no, younger Jews are totally on our side. In fact, here's a, here's a, And another fact that mainstream media keeps hidden from you, 63% of Jewish Americans are opposed to the current government of Israel. So are they all anti-Semitic? Are the majority of Jews in America anti-Semitic? No, this is absurd. Now, look, some people on the extreme fringes of the right that blame Jews for everything,

they have their own agenda for doing that and drive a little bit more hatred, et cetera, right? But the Israel first, you know, reason for hiding behind Jewish civilians and using them as human shields is obvious. You weaponize anti-Semitism, you pretend that Israel hasn't done anything wrong, and that people are irrationally criticizing them just because they hate Jews. So then whenever Israel does something wrong, they boomerang the propaganda to criticize the people that are actually blaming them for doing something wrong. They're like, no, no, we're not the problem.

The people criticizing us are the problem because they're driven by this irrational hatred of Jewish people, right? So it is a purposeful tactic. In fact, it's a lot like Jesse Smollett, right? But just done on a macro national and international level. So they're going, oh, my God, I can't believe it. We're the victims. But Miriam, you have like, what a how I've lost track of 30 or 40 or 70 billion or whatever she has.

On what planet is Miriam Adelson the victim or Larry Ellison, right? Now, if you attack a random synagogue, those people are victims. They didn't do anything. They're random plumbers and dentists. What are you can attacking them for, right? That's a victim. But to say that the most powerful people in the country that are legally bribing all of our politicians

are defenseless victims is traditional media just lying to you on purpose to protect Israel. And you're absolutely right. The people who are the boomers watching television are still pro-Israel. And by the way, pro-corruption. And they don't know it because they've been brainwashed into believing all of these,

ludicrous things that serve all the powerful people, not just the Zionists, but big pharma, big oil, defense contractors, et cetera. And that's the job of television is to brainwash you. You've got to unplug from the matrix. If you don't unplug, you're purposely poisoning your mind, and you've got to get your family members off of it. It's a drug, right? And so meanwhile, though, under 50 years old across everyone, right? Race and religion don't matter. Israel's approval rating is negative 45. Okay. So, and Dave, it's super obvious what's driving it. It's the media that people are watching. So if you're watching propaganda on television, you would think that the Palestinians are occupying the Israelis and the Israelis are the victims of the Palestinians for the last 60 years, right? And so,

and they tell you all sorts of lines that you and I are super familiar with. Then when you come online, something magical happens. It's not just that our shows are better. And to be fair to us, they are better. You'll be way more informed if you watch Dave every day than if you watch CNN and it's not close, right? So, but also what happens is, well, Dave and I disagree on some things. And Tucker and I disagree on some things. And then Dave and Tucker disagree on some things. So now you're forced to use your own mind and your independent judgment to make a decision on who's right and wrong,

whether it's on Israel or Social Security or the carried interest. loophole. And so once we've got people using that muscle of independent judgment, the propaganda is fucked. And mainstream media is utterly screwed. Because once you use your independent judgment, you look at TV and you go, oh my God, it's all bullshit. Yeah. And particularly, like there is something particularly with the Zionist propaganda, the Hasbara, as it's known, where, because like I think there's a couple things going on, right? Obviously, it's the decentralization of the media, people getting their media through alternative shows where they can actually hear someone present the truth in a competent way. It's also the actions of the Israeli government have really made it pretty easy over the last couple of years to, you know, demonstrate why any rational person should be opposed to it.

But I got to say there is also something particularly about how bad. bad they are at this. Like it's just, it's been a thing that I've sure, I know it's been a major theme on the young Turks and it's been a major theme on my podcast for the last two and a half years or so that you're just like, oh my God, you guys are really so bad at this. It's like, oh, it was just that the game was always controlled. As soon as it's level at all, they can't, I mean, me and you, I think the, if I'm not mistaken, the first time we met was when we did a debate together against Bacha and Dennis Prager. And I remember genuinely, my feeling in the moment when we were doing the debate was like,

whoa, dude, like, I can't believe how one-sided this is. Like, I was just like, you know, they're not. Like, it was like after it had been going on for like 30, 40, 50 minutes. And you're like, dude, they haven't won one volley of this yet. Like, it's just they have nothing. They don't have an argument, you know? And you've seen this kind of. And even I was thinking about this with the, you know, this stunt with you, not

being allowed to go to the UK. Even as I'm doing this, I'm like, hey, okay, if I were the villain on the other side, you know, controlling the Zionist propaganda and someone came to me with this proposal, I'd go, no, no, no, dude, don't do this because this just, like, you guys just are not good at this. It just, first off, it totally reaffirms the accusation being made. It's the old Norm MacDonald joke where he goes, you know, Marlon Brando said Jews control Hollywood, and then he met with a bunch of rabbis to apologize, at which point they said, all right, we accept, you can work again. And it's like, oh, yeah, that you doing this proves that the accusation was correct.

And then on top of that, it's like, is there any feeling just for the way the new ecosystem works? Like, it's like, okay, look, honestly, even as you're saying it, what they denied you really was like a cool moment for your sister and something that would have been a fun time for you, because obviously you enjoy doing what you do for a living and you would have gone and had, you know, you would have enjoyed the appearances. but it's like, I don't know, really, when guys like me and you go do live appearances, we might be speaking to a few thousand people, but then when we go back on the internet, we're probably speaking to a few hundred thousand to a few million people.

So it's not like you're really denying. And in fact, way more people are now going to hear about this story. And then so like it's, it just works out in your favor in a weird way. I guess it's just, it's kind of flabbergastic. bad they are at this. Like, what even is the plan here? Oh, that did it. That shut it down. You know, Jank Yugar couldn't go to the UK. I guess we all love Israel again now. Yeah. So, first of all, Dave, you're an awesome debating partner. I mean, if I'm going to go to a debate, like there's only, there's the top three people I'd take with me. Are you Anna Kusparian and Tucker Carlson?

Like any combination of the two of us, that's not a bad, that's not a bad little team. The five of us, or four of us, that's not bad. Yeah, no, no. And it was that night, and people go back and watch that video. It's a fun video. I mean, it was an annihilation. I was thinking the same thing. I'm like, this isn't fair.

We're just slaughtering them, right? And so, and the reason is, as Baines had told Batman, victory has defeated you. And so what happened with the Israelis is, and their supporters, is that they got flabby and they had control of yes, and they can kiss my ass if they disagree with this of mainstream media completely. And we can get into why and how later. And so they weren't used to arguing.

They were just used to like these silly talking points that are so easily pushed over, right? Like, oh, you owe Israel $300 billion because they're a special ally. Well, what does that mean? The minute you ask, what does special ally mean? It's instantly defeated because it's nonsense. You can call anything a special ally. And they're like, what do you mean? We've been brainwashing Americans to think that they're a special ally,

and that's why they owe them hundreds of billions of dollars. I don't know how to answer you if you say that they're not a special ally, right? So, and oh, everyone who criticized Israel is an anti-Semite. Like all these talking points are like super weak because they were never battle tested because no one was ever allowed to argue against them. And if anyone argued against them for a nanosecond, they were taken off the air. right so that's why now when we go into battle against these guys they they're i mean now i debated kevin o'leary the other day on diary of a CEO and it felt like he was lying down like he was like i

no moss i don't i don't want any part of this right and so sometimes it's because they they're you know they're talking points suck and they've lost the debate and i'm now seeing like zionist i debate getting demoralized live on air right and it's not because you understand and I are so good. I mean, I think we're okay. I think we're pretty good, but it's because they really have nothing to stand on. When you go to empirical evidence and factual stuff, oh, the Palestinians are terrorists. But then wait a minute, your civilian kill ratio for the IDF is worse than Hamas or Hezbollah, and you've killed a hundred times the number of civilians. And we all know you're targeting them because you're doing double taps and you're hitting hospitals and schools and

churches and Moss, et cetera. So they don't have any evidence. We have all of the evidence. Like if it was debate club they'd be like no no no no this isn't fair we got to switch it up right well if there's i use this example sometimes because you know like in in debate club in high school or college or whatever though which and this is to a way this is to test like if you want to test who is the best at the sport of debating what they do is they have you switch sides of the resolution or like there'll be a resolution and you got to be prepared to argue either side so the way i say it like like to i always go hey i'm not that great of a debater i don't think i could win on their side. Like, yeah, they got all, if they got all my points and I had to take all their points,

I don't think I could win that debate because there's so many better points on this side. Like, that's really just what it comes down to is it's just like, I don't know, dude, like your, your side says that we have to annihilate all of Gaza because of Hamas. And then my side gets to go, well, first of all, no, you don't have to. And number two, you funded and created Hamas. You're like, I don't know, this is a way better side than the side saying we need to. By the way, I wanted to talk to you about this because the moment we're in literally right now, right now is like such a perfect microcosm of the whole thing, of exactly what we're talking about. So you have right now situation where we are desperate to get out of this catastrophic war. We desperately need to rescue the global economy.

clearly Donald Trump has accepted that he needs to get out of the war. He won't admit that, but he wants to get out of the war. It is such a clear example of where there are the U.S. interests and even the interests of the United States government. And then there are the interests of the Lakud Party who say, no, we want southern Lebanon. And they've already announced that they want to annex the southern part of it. And so they go, no, Donald Trump forbids Israel. from striking Lebanon.

And so they up it and have their largest strikes in months. And now, as Donald Trump is trying to get a ceasefire, the Israelis just go, no. This is a country that's very survival, let alone their ability to conduct any of these military operations, is completely dependent on us. And yet, when their interests diverge, they just do what they want to do,

and we know there'll be no ramifications. I mean, like, what can you are? argue against there. This is just an intolerable dynamic for any, again, it's not a left or a right issue at all. It's a basic sovereignty issue. And they got nothing in response. So let me connect those two topics, right? Because I love the shoe on the other foot idea. I talk about it on the intertorks all the time. Well, okay, what if you went through this instead of that, right? But I hadn't gone through that mental exercise you just forced me into. What if I had to debate the Israeli signed?

And the minute you said it, I thought, I swear to God, instantly in my head. I was like, I went through all their arguments in like about a couple of seconds. And then I thought, oh, I know what I'd do. I would shut down the debate because you can't win. So you got to shut down the debate. That is a totally unwinnable side. So, you know, pull a hamstring, pull the fire alarm, or call everyone anti-Semites so you can't have the debate.

And that's why they're- Or come in and talk about whether you're an expert or you've never being or you've never you know it's like all the stuff that they call you an anti-semit or so i've seen a dozen of your different of your debates where that's exactly what they're doing just trying to stall you from getting to the point you want to make about gaza yeah that's what essentially that's the best way to play it like i don't know douglas morrie did the best thing he could have done against me what else was he going to do so can i you know i owe you a debt of gratitude on that one day because i debated douglas murray on peers of morgan like way before you did and he pulled that same bullshit about Have you been there?

And I was like, what fucking difference would that make? You went on some propaganda junket, et cetera. But at the time, the situation was not as, you know, clear as it is today, right? Right. So at the time, it was right in the beginning of the conflict, Gaza conflict. So people were like, oh, yeah, you haven't been there. So he wins. Ha, ha, ha, right?

And all that stuff. And then you eviscerated Douglas Murray. And then people then went back and they were like, oh, Jenk was right. yeah, what fucking difference? Right? Well, there's a few things. Well, there's a few things there, right? There's a few dynamics.

So number one that I think you correctly pointed out is that I got them, you know, like over a year later. So I had over a year more of the entire public being turned against this whole thing, you know, or maybe it wasn't a year, but something like it was months later at least. I had a big window of just atrocities being committed since there. But then the other thing that really, because a lot of this is like the social psychology of it.

This is the way people are persuaded. Is that part of it too is that you got him on a remote Pierce Morgan debate, whereas I got him in a room with Joe Rogan for three hours. Oh, yeah. He's screwed. I had him more in a situation. But not just that he's screwed that it's like there's the Pierce Morgan thing, and this is just kind of the nature of it, it's almost anticipated this is going to get into a food fight. This is going to get into something where it's, I'm getting one up on you. I'm getting.

But when you got Joe Rogan, the most likable biggest, you know, guy in shows, and he's sitting there like, hey, I love both of you guys. Let's just be cool and get down to the real issue here, you know? And so then in that environment, it just becomes that much more obvious. It's not like, oh, yeah, you got an own. I've been and you haven't been. It's more like, it was just more obvious that like, oh, you don't actually have anything to say. You don't actually have a response.

And so this is, this is it. It's actually, it wasn't, it was, a lot of it is time and place and situation. Yeah. And, and it's, it's exactly where Kamala Harris didn't do Rogan's show. Because in three hours, you're going to get exposed one way or another, right? And so Murray wasn't going to ever, you know, beat you in that context. And so, so, but it, you did a public service to everyone. So that was awesome.

Well, thank you. Yeah. And so now, though, we're at a time right now. we're at the most critical decision point. So I'm really happy that I'm talking to you now because what I want to establish on the record for everyone, oh, by the way, before I go under that, your point about Pierce Morgan is so right.

So now when I go on like Sean Ryan's show or Tucker's show or Diary of a CEO or wherever I go, like sometimes people are like, oh, that's weird. Why is he yelling? Well, brother, I don't have to yell if someone, if some mad isn't shouting over me, right? Yeah, fair. And Lex Friedman, oh my God, four some odd hours of a perfectly civil conversation,

really intellectual conversation. I loved it, right? So anyway, so we're at this critical point now because, like you said, Trump says, okay, now anyhow, cut it out, no more bombing Lebanon, let's get to peace. Because Exxon Mobil is saying, guys, even if we don't restart the war, a barrel of oil is going to $150 to $160. So there's going to be an economic iceberg we're going to hit. that is kind of inevitable. And if you restart the war, oh my God, you know, they didn't get into that,

but now we're talking about $200. I mean, people have no idea about the devastation that's about to happen, okay, economically. And so Trump has to get out of it. I mean, he can't, it'll obliterate his term, his legacy, his reputation, the economy, his party, the country. So it'll ruin what people think of Trump. So he must get out. Now, on the other hand, you have, Netanyahu comes out and goes, no, shut up, Donald. I'm going to bomb Lebanon even more. And I'm going to bomb their Beir. And Ben Gavir says, bomb the suburbs of Beir, where the civilians are, mass bombings, right? So they say basically, America, who the fuck do you think you are? Okay. We're in charge. You're not in charge. So now, the reason why it's such good news that we're talking today is because we're all about to

find out together who's in charge, right? So if America, if Trump goes, look, this is a bridge too far. Now, I get it. You guys gave me hundreds of millions of dollars and you have this and you promised me secret deals and Trump Tower and all of that and the Trump Riviera, but this is going to destroy me. So no, I'm pulling out. That means America still has some level of sovereignty left, right? But if we then go, oh, so sorry, our overlords. We told you to stop, and you told us we're losers and that we have to obey you. And so now we're obeying you and going further into the war. Then Israel doesn't have a little of influence, a little control.

No, that means they have 100% control over Trump at a minimum and over certainly our government and our media. And now I don't get to determine that. That's why we do predictions on the young Turks. I'm telling you ahead of time so you can see it with your own eyes. Because Dave, you and I know that after it happens, if it turns out we go back into the war and follow Netanyahu's commands, everyone on TV and the New York Times and Saturday will turn around and go, oh, no, you can't say Israel influenced that. No, no, no, no. Like America was going to do that anyway. They always do revisionist history.

So if you say it ahead of time, you'll know that there is a script, right? And there is a certain pattern here, and you can discern it. Yeah, I can't argue with that. I wanted to ask you about this Axios piece from yesterday, which is, you know, I'm not really myself completely sure what to make of it. So there's a piece that essentially is saying that they, you know, Axios has throughout this entire war served as the mouthpiece of the regime. They feed it stories and they run the stories that they want to. It's unbelievable how much they can just get things wrong and then just keep moving. you know, like they've reported on the deal being done several times already.

Seems to be some blatant market manipulation going on there. But yesterday they have this piece that Donald Trump has a furious phone call with Benjamin Netanyahu and he's cursing him out and he's like, you're a maniac. Now, to be fair, Axios has had other pieces like this before. And if you remember, Crystal Ball made this point on Twitter recently that like, yeah, they used to run these pieces about how Biden was cracking down on Israel behind the scenes. and then, oh, Trump's furious at Israel behind the scenes. And it's not, I don't know, there's something in it that it, to me, at least on the surface,

I tend to go like, this is all just made up. Because also even just given like the 12-day war, I mean, the exact same dynamic went on there. Israel lured us into the war, set the no enrichment standards, poison the negotiations, led the first attack. And then when Trump wanted the off-ramp and a ceasefire, they kept the bombing up. And then Trump, you know, has that one comment where he says they all don't. know what the fuck they're doing or whatever. It's like, so part of me is like this isn't real. But if it is like there's basically two options either that's not true. And yet the administration

wants us to think that behind the scenes they are cracking the whip on on Israel or it is true. In which case, it's exactly what you just said it is. It's like, okay. So what comes of that? So you told them they didn't want, they're not allowed to do this thing. They're doing it. any way and you do what? Because I will say, like, you know, I was listening to an interview with Jeffrey Sachs recently and, you know, he said something in a very simple way that I think maybe I've been kind of under-acknowledging this whole time, which is that he's like, what's all this talk about a deal?

We don't need a deal. Why do we need to make a deal with the Iranians? Like, we're worlds apart on the nuclear issue. We're worlds apart on intercontinental ballistic missiles. worlds apart on proxies. There's no deal to be made here, but we could just stop and come home and not support Israel anymore. And what are they going to do? Keep the straight of Hermus closed and make everyone in the world hate them forever doing something blatantly illegal. No, eventually they're going to have to stop and they'll just get to it. So anyway, the point being, short of whatever grip the

Israel lobby has over Donald Trump, there's no law in logic that says we can't just do all of that. okay you're furious at Israel tell around you know what we can't control Israel but we're not helping them anymore so between you guys they'd be fine with that that'd be the best that'd be the best win they could hope for let's just do yeah so Dave again we're talking at a perfect time because the proof is about to be in the pudding and and we're going to have a definitive answer and so but let me break down what you're saying so Anna has a theory that that well first of all Barack Reveed is former Israeli intelligence, right? So, okay, now that doesn't mean that he's not reformed, you know, and now in media, et cetera.

But back in the Biden days, you know, we are not normal Democrats or people on the left, right? So normally, you know, you do propaganda for your side. That's like the old school way of doing media. But we started doing it new way 24 years ago, where we're like, no, we're going to call it both sides. and so when Biden would do those strongly worded calls or letters to Netanyahu, we would mock him to no end. What a little bitch, right? Oh, here's $21 billion to commit a genocide.

But, oh, but please don't. I beg you, Israel. I beg you not to kill all of them. Why are you begging them? How about, hey. Dude, remember there was one week where he sold them weapons and asked him not to use the weapons he just sold them? There was one week where, like, he said, I forget the type of bomb it was,

but he gave it to him and then went, well, please don't use this. And then they used it. You're like, yo, dude, what is this? It's just pathetic. It's pathetic. And you know, I hate it under both Biden and Trump because not only are we losing our sovereignty, but we're losing our self-respect. What is this groveling to a country the size of Papua New Guinea?

That's their population. It's nearly identical. And when you put in Papua New Guinea instead of Israel, everybody realizes how absurd it is. But it's because of, you know, mainstream media brainwashing that we think, no, no, Israel. Like, yeah, even though they're tiny. They should control us. We should go into every war for them.

We should pay, do $8 trillion of the global war on Israel's neighbors. So, okay, so Anna's theory is, yeah, Barack Reveed has done this 100 times. He basically works for the Israelis. And he did it under Biden. He did it under Trump, just like you said, right? And so these are all fake outs to make it seem like we're two different entities. But in reality, Israel calls the shots, and this is all fake theater and drama. So that's perfectly legitimate.

And maybe that's exactly what's going on. But if that's true, okay, then you have. your answer. Israel's in charge. Okay. Now, exactly to your point. Now, if you go to the other scenario, that's the scenario that I was describing, right? So maybe in this case, they really did have a blowup, and Trump really is frustrated. That doesn't sound unrealistic, right? He's like, Netanyahu, why are you making me destroy my reputation and my presidency and my country and my party? And Netanyahu says, shut up, bitch. Okay. And now we're going to find out in that scenario, well, who's the bitch, right? Who serves who? Who's the overlord? And we're not, it doesn't matter what we say and it doesn't matter what the religions are. What matters is what happens in the real world. So if we go back into this disastrous war and you, everyone will see with their eyes, of their own eyes, how disastrous economic fallout will be. It will be because Israel made us because because Trump doesn't want to be in. We don't want to be in. 80% of Americans don't want to be in. And so now again, though, if

if it turns out that that was real, and I think that, I don't know, there's some percent of chance it is real, right? And so I'm with you. I'm not really sure what's happening here. I'm not as certain as Anna is about it, right? And so, but if it is real and then Trump draws the line on Netanyahu and we leave, then great. Then we're not controlled by Israel. Terrific. Okay. Now, they still have massive influence. They got us into the war in the first place. They got us to do the first war. They got us to give them hundreds of billions of dollars. Now they're looking to merge our militaries, which is insanity, right? So, but okay, apparently it's not 100%. But if we go back in, it is 100%. And so you can't argue with it. You can. You can call people anti-Semites and try to

shut down the debate, but it's crystal clear what's happened. And Dave, I think that like Israel has lost its mind, right? Netanyahu and all those guys. And, you know, we can get into the culture of the population if we want. That's a separate topic. But the government has definitively lost it's mine because here's an easy peace deal that American can make. And there's two possibilities for Israel here. One is that we take Dave Smith's advice, which I couldn't agree more with. And in fact, I think that there is a deal to be made. I disagree with Jeffrey Sachs just a tiny bit. If I was in charge to go to the Iranians, go, hey, listen, you don't really care about the highly enriched uranium. We were just doing that to make sure we don't attack you, right? I get that it was for

leverage. I know that there's a fatwa and I know that you don't have a missile that could deliver it anyway. Okay. So and they're and you've already agreed under the Obama deal and under two different peace offers that you let us take out the highly enriched uranium and you get some sort of energy program verified by international in international monitors. You open up the straight of hormones. We lift a blockade and we're done. We're done. There's no other interest at all. They're ballistic missiles. Countries are a lot to have ballistic missiles and their ballistic missiles can't reach us. So why do we care about their ballistic missiles? That's Israel's issue. Proxies, other countries are allowed to have allies.

We're going to tell you how to run your foreign. No, you must have Israel run your foreign policy. That isn't American interest at all. That's their business, not our business. And then at that point, if Israel wants to keep fighting Iran and Lebanon, go ahead. That's not our problem. That's your problem. No, you have to give me your military. No, we don't.

You have to give me all your money. No, we don't. You have to fight all my enemies for me. No, we don't. You have to make me a regional. and as O'Donan who said, potentially a global superpower. We have to make Papua New Guinea a global superpower. That's somehow an American interest?

No, no, that's absurd. We don't have any of those interests. So in that scenario, then Israel's screwed because Iran has a lot of drones and a lot of missiles. And Israel now realizes, oh, we might have messed with the bear here, right? So that's scenario number one. Scenario number two is they drag us into the war. Hey, they won. They got an American military and American soldiers to fight their war for them.

No, but then gas is going to go up by a dollar and $2, and inflation is going to be horrific, and the markets are going to crash. The markets are driven by lunatics at this point. I can't believe it hasn't already crashed, but it's inevitable. And then no matter how much propaganda, mainstream media and the government does, and no matter how much they ban us from all the different Western countries, It's not going to work. The dam is going to break.

The dam's in the middle of breaking as we speak. But if they cause that kind of economic catastrophe here in America, Israel will be more hated than Jeffrey Dahmer. Israel will be the most hated thing in America. And so how does that help Israel? So these lunatics have set up a lose-lose for both themselves and America and the world. So why are we listening to the lunatics? All right, guys, let's take a moment and thank our sponsor for today's show, which is Crowd Health. I love this company, and we've been promoting them for many years.

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health care into a bureaucratic nightmare. So get your health care on your terms. Use the promo code POTP at join crowdhealth.com and you'll get your first three months for less than $80. Crowd health is not insurance. Opt out. Take your power back. This is how we win. Visit join crowd crowd.com and use the promo code POTP today. All right. Let's get back into the show. Yeah. Yeah. No, that is a that is a valid question. You know, I want to I wanted to kind of ask you about because, well, because it's me and you having this conversation. And you've, you've kind of made a big point over the last few years to, I don't know how to exactly say it, to kind of plant your flag in the idea that you're in the let's have conversations across the aisle

camp. And I'm not talking about, you know, with politicians, like literally across the aisle. I mean, with people and people who are differences and opinions, you're more of a left-wing guy and you have a lot of conversations with people like me or Tucker or people who are. more right-wing guys. And this inevitably gets a lot of backlash. There's been, I know there's been left-wingers who have criticized you for taking this approach. And I'm sure I will get some criticism for having you on my show. And you know what I mean?

Like it's kind of inevitable that you'll get some criticism for having this conversation with me and I'll get some criticism for having this conversation with you. And I've always found myself, I mean, I've always just been firmly on in agreement. with you on this. It seems almost absurd to me. It almost becomes a thing where I'm even not sure what people's objection is. But there is this weird dynamic where people will say, oh, so now, Dave, you're allying with the left. And I'm kind of like, well, but what even do you mean? Like, what do you like, I'm, yes, I'm having a conversation. It's the same thing people do on all sides, by the way, like, when I have Nick Fuentes on, they're like, oh, so you're paling around

with Nick Fuentes, you're legitimizing Nick Fuentes, you're platforming, and you're like, dude, just say the actual thing, so you sound as ridiculous as you do. I'm talking to him. That's what you're upset about. I'm having a conversation with somebody. Like what, and it does, I don't know, I just find this to be a very bizarre dynamic. And I always, I've just always, since I've been into politics, I've always had this thing where it's like, if you're ever going down a path where your enemy is your neighbor, you're going down the wrong path. That is just not correct.

And it's not that your neighbor maybe doesn't have his problems or have a different way of living life than you do. And that is true. There certainly are a lot of that. And you may have some bad neighbors. I'm not saying your neighbors are all great. But like, yeah, in the United States of America, you're not being oppressed by your neighbor.

You're really not. Like, that just is not the, there are powerful interests who have rigged this entire economy and our entire government policy against the American people on behalf of a very small group of powerful people. And those are your enemies. And if they're not, you're not doing political commentary right. Like, you're just, you're not helping. Yeah.

So let me break that one down and show you that, I'm sorry, but the other side is empirically incorrect. Okay. So why is it a matter of fact? Well, first of all, they say, well, you shouldn't talk to anyone you don't fully agree with. Why? What a weird thing to say. Do you know anyone that you agree with 100%?

And are we supposed to like ban people from having any conversations in personal life and public life unless they agree ahead of time to agree 100%. I mean, by definition, that's a mental standard. No one can defend that standard. And so, and in fact, that standard was applied to us, of course. Even before I started talking to Charlie Kirk and Tucker Carlson, et cetera, they said, well, you disagree with us on transports, on whether crime went up or not in the major cities between 2019 and 2023. I'm like, so what? You disagree with me on a bunch of other things. And so why do I have to agree with you?

why don't you have to agree with me? Oh, okay. So, and by the way, did we ever vote on it? Did the left or Democrats ever vote on those two issues or any of these issues? No, we never voted on it. You just declared yourself king and you must agree with me. And so by definition, that's an argument that is not correct because anyone can claim, no, you have to agree with me. And now we're in a deadlock.

We're in a stalemate. So intellectually, it makes no sense at all. Number two is, am I asking you to marry the guy? Am I asking you to vote for the guy, right? Am I asking you to make Candace Owens the senator from Missouri? Am I saying that, you know, from now on, you could only go fishing with Sean Ryan? No, I'm just asking you to have a conversation with the guy. Number three, if you're voting on an issue, so now it gets relevant with Tom Massey and Marjorie Taylor Green because they were in Congress, right?

if you say to someone coming over to your side on the left we've always been anti-war right and they come over and say hey i'd like to vote with you on anti-war or cutting off israel's funding or being against the genocide and you say no to that i'm not allowed to use the r word anymore but that's what you are okay like no i don't want your vote agreeing with me is perhaps the least intelligent thing in that you could ever do in politics and it's defy sense i do i define anyone to have that make sense, right? So, and then finally, look, on this super important and hard issues, whether it's ending a war, ending a genocide, or getting money out of politics, you literally cannot win without both sides,

all sides coming together. So in order to get money out of politics, you need an amendment. That means you need three quarters of the states to ratify it. There are too many blue states and there are too many red states. So if you're a right-winger thinking, oh, I'll get money out of it. of politics without any of those do good or liberals. I don't need them. You're totally wrong. You do need us. There's too many blue states. You can't get an amendment passed, right? Same thing for the left. I mean, my God, I've been fighting for that constitutional amendment

through Wolfpack for the last 15 years, right? And my biggest opponents are establishment Democrats. They used to be, my biggest opponents used to be the Koch brothers, American Enterprise Institute, Neocons, et cetera, right? Then Pelosi came along and she told all. of the state legislators, you are not to work with Woffack. A convention is dangerous change. Change is bad. And then she had all these people parroting. Change is bad.

Change is bad. Don't do a convention, right? So the reality, and they're like, and I ask those guys every time. I'm like, okay, so you're going to get an amendment without working with the right wing. Go ahead. Tell me how you're going to get 38 states. There is no way to get 38 states without the right and the left working together. So anyone who's trying to do that is trying to do that is trying to do.

divide us. They might not know it consciously, but they're helping the propaganda of traditional media. Who divided us in the first place? Traditional media did, right? So, but wait a minute, why am I on the left and you're on the right if we agree on, let's say, make up a number 40% of issues. So what is, why do we have to hate each other? Why do we have to fight? Why don't we agree on the issues that we agree on and disagree on the issues we disagree on? I mean, I say things like this that are so obvious and then I get attacked for it. Really? That's the hill you want to die on?

And Dave, I'm super proud that, you know, like you said, I planted my flag on that. And if I'm known as the guy who's pushing for unity so we could end the corruption and we could end the wars, I mean, yeah, please, you know, whoever's on the left attacking me for that? Attack me more. Tell everyone that I'm for unity and making sure that we unify enough to get our country. back. Well, there's, to me, it seems that obviously, like, a lot of this stuff is like within reason and just applying common sense. But certainly, like, if there was some, I don't know, whatever, you know,

like if there was a, like a Maoist authoritarian, you know, from my perspective, just really horrible politics, but we agreed on one small issue, then like, yeah, I'm probably not going to coalition with that person over a small issue. Like if we agreed on some like zoning law in a local ordinance or something like that, but he's like a Maoist, probably okay, I'm not going to want to. But like, what it comes down to is how important is the issue that we're talking about here? You know, like to me, that has so, so like even just now when you were talking about money in politics, I think me and you have a slightly different view or maybe a pretty drastically different view on that. And that would be a really interesting conversation. Like we could do another

podcast and do what we could talk for a whole hour about that topic. But like this podcast is kind of, in my mind, about us coalitioning on this current war that's going on. And the reason why I'm more interested to talk about that with you right now is because like, my God, man, there's a war on right now when the global economy hangs in the balance. And like thousands of people have been killed. Like we killed like 200 little girls on the first day of this strike. It's being done with our money and our name. And like, I don't know, I judge that that's the most. important thing right now. And I know when I was on the Young Turks, I think I made the comparison to, you know, like if it was 1845 and we were both abolitionists, and then we just started arguing about

tax policy the whole time. It's like, my God, man, there's human beings are enslaved right now. Like, it's incumbent on you to put those differences aside and work with. And then the other thing, which, look, maybe this is just a simple, just the way I am. Look, I don't know what to say. if I was this is from my perspective but I think if I was watching an episode of the young Turks in 2017 or 2018 and then I watched an episode of like um I don't know like Stephen Crowder's show or something I don't know I might have agreed more with some of the stuff he was saying than the stuff you guys were saying but today if I watch an episode you know like if I'm watching like Bannon and Jack Possebiak pretending there's a deal and celebrating how Donald Trump just got

a historic win when it's just so obviously not true. It's just like sitting here watching people lie to me in the dumbest possible way. And then I turn on an episode of the Young Turks and I'm like, goddamn, Jenkin Ann are nailing it. So like, and by the way, from my perspective, I haven't changed it all during this time. You know, like, I mean, maybe a little bit around the edges, but I'm pretty much still agree with the same stuff. So sorry, like, don't come at me for that. it's not my fault that these guys are lying to you and these guys are telling the truth, but that's kind of where we're at right now. And at least to me, I go, look, since, at least since October 7th, you know,

now there's certain guys who, in my opinion, have always just been phenomenal who are left-wingers. I mean, Jeremy Scahill and Glenn Greenwald and guys like this, I think have just been phenomenal reporters and Ryan Grimm's a phenomenal reporter. But if I'm listening to Crystal Ball or Jank Yugar or anyone over the last two and a half years talking about foreign policy. I think they're largely getting it right. And so what is the expectation here that I'm not supposed to like interact with the people who are right about the most important thing right now. And for everyone else, I think it's, you know, left and right are useful terms and there are meaningful differences between my worldview and yours because of our different

perspectives. But it's also like you can't, when you're talking about people, they're not defined by their politics, dude. Issues are much more important than whatever you think your, you know, worldview is. What actually matters is that there's kids dying right now in our name and it's destroying our country. That's what matters. All right, guys, let's take a moment and thank our sponsor for today's show, which is superpower. I love this company and thrilled that they're on board as a sponsor. I don't know about you, but I feel a lot of the times, like when I go to the doctors, they essentially don't do anything. I don't know. I mean, they, you know, they give you a basic physical, but they don't really find out what's going on with your health. Now, if you really

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checkout and you'll get $20 off your membership. You can detect early. signs of over a thousand different conditions. There's a really cool opportunity. If you care about your health, this is the way to level up. Superpower.com promo code problem for $20 off your membership. All right, let's get back into the show. So Dave, I didn't know that we disagreed on money and policy. So I have to leave immediately. We don't have 100% agreement. So we have to shut down the entire conversation. Yeah, yeah, yeah, there you go. Right, right. Yeah, yeah. Well, we'll get, you know what, that would actually be a really interesting subject for us to talk about because it's not exactly that I disagree with you. It's more that my perspective is that.

when you have a government that's so powerful, it's going to be impossible to ensure that it's not rigged by someone. That doesn't mean I'd be against, that doesn't mean I'd be against some ideas that could maybe make it less easy to rig. But when Washington, D.C. moves $7 trillion every year. You know, you find the example I always give is like, so Hillary Clinton, you know, it's illegal for Saudi Arabia to give money to the Hillary Clinton campaign. So they give her foundation $100 million. You know, like so, like, no, matter how you're going to write the guy the the point is that Saudi Arabia is going to find a way to gain favor with whoever the next commander in chief is and now look at all these things they're doing with with Donald Trump it's like I mean I'm probably some of that is illegal but at the same time I just

mean I think it's almost like it's like the Lord Atkin uh ultimate absolute power corrupts absolutely and it's like if you don't lower the level of power you're not going to be able to lower the level of corruption if that makes sense yeah so look I can't wait to have that debate with you on another day. And, yeah, yeah, we don't have enough time. So it's, yeah, it's all that. But I know that you can't criticize the Clinton Foundation because you haven't been there. I have not been.

I have not been to the Clinton Foundation. Let me just see one more. And then, you know what, I'm sorry. I shouldn't have gotten into that because we don't have time to get into a whole new topic. But I'll give you the last word on this. But I did want to say, because there has been, at least I've seen this dynamic. I talked about this last time I was on breaking points and I'm kind of interested to get your reaction to this because, you know, when I, I mean, part of it, I got in some arguments with like

Kyle Kalinsky and Medi Hassan over this. And these are two people who I, look, I probably on foreign policy, have large areas of agreement with both of them. But I just felt like, and this is, I think, kind of goes to the spirit of what you're talking about. There was this moment where after this war, and look, it probably should have happened earlier. It should have happened last summer when I turned on them. But of the whole podcaster coalition where I'm weirdly a hybrid, like, because I do stand up, but I'm also more of a straight political commentator, but I'm friends with a lot of people in this world. But there came a moment when like all of these guys, many of whom helped get Trump elected, from Tucker to Rogan, to Theo Vaughn, to Tim Dillon, to Tim Dillon, to Andrew Schultz, to, you know,

I'm missing some names in there, but a whole bunch of them, essentially all turned on Donald Trump over the war, you know, like to different degrees. And then I would watch as a group of left wingers all thought that the moment there was to go, told you so, ha, ha, you're an idiot, you voted for the guy. And like, and what I said back to them when I was arguing with Medi on it, was I was like, hey, Medi, I got anti-war street Fred, if nothing else. Like I've been anti-war for 20 years. I've been, I always talked about it. When I was going on Rogan, I would talk about Yemen all the time. This became a running joke because I just, just kept talking about Yemen and people were like no one cares about this. It wasn't like Gaza

where all the cool kids wanted to talk about it, but it was a genocide all the same. And so I kept bringing it up and kept talking about it. And when Gaza came and the whole anti-war left came back, I never thought for one second for my response to be, well, you guys voted for Obama and Biden. And therefore, look at all the dead people that are on your head. It's just at a point you're like, Guys, what are we trying to do here? Is this about patting yourself on the back? Or this is about maybe we got a shot of like preventing the next genocide or ending the kind of current ongoing one. Like isn't if you care about the issue, when I saw all the young leftists getting anti-war again on Gaza, I was just like, oh, let's go.

Yes, this is great. Wouldn't you be glad that all the Trump's people are turning on them? Again, this is another one that's indisputable. So for two reasons. So when I first started talking to Charlie Kirk, the world collapsed in on us. I remember the reaction, yeah. Yeah, and most of the rest of the left attacked us.

And what happened with Charlie and Tucker and the rest of him? Oh, right. Charlie started becoming more opposed to Israel before he was killed, right? And so why was he starting to become more opposed to Israel? Because he was talking to other people. He was getting other, you know, ideas that he wasn't exposed to before. And by the way, his audience mainly drove that. And they should, they get the lion's share of the credit by far, right?

And then Tucker turned against Israel and their wars and their genocide. And then Megan did. And then Pears did. And they all did. So if we hadn't done that and we hadn't talked to them, you know, would that have happened? Maybe. But maybe not. And so that's what, look, especially if you're on the right side of an issue, why wouldn't you talk to other people and try to convince them of it?

That point is so irrational. It boggles the mind that they keep saying that. And in the beginning, look, there's two different camps. There's a lot of folks who just got wrapped up in the tribalism and they got into the cycle of hatred and you have to hate MAGA and you have to hate the Republicans. You have to hate the other side. But to your point earlier, Dave, I mean, I said this in my Jubilee episode. all the time on the Young Turks. The guy on your left didn't rig the system.

The guy on your right didn't rig the system. By the way, the guy that below you also didn't rig the system. Look up. Look up. Look up. The people in power with all the money and the power. They're the ones who are rigging the system. And I'm going to shock every cable news actor here.

The wealthy and the powerful would like to keep their wealth and power. I know that's a foreign concept to them. They're like, yes. And do they sometimes conspire in terms of giving campaign contributions as an industry or a government or people who support a government to get their way so that they retain and add to their wealth and power. Of course. Of course. You'd have to be a lunatic to think that they don't. They're like, oh, no, no, no, we're not going to protect our wealth and power. Just take it from us, right? No. And so by having those conversations, I hope, I believe, that we began to move

the needle, right, and move a public opinion. If we hadn't engaged in that, it would be a terrible mistake. Now, the second point is, guys, when someone says yes, take yes for an answer, take the win. What is wrong with you? I mean, brother Ben Cohen and Jared Greenfield out in Vermont and Bernie Sanders, right? That's like your prototypical anti-war left, leftover from Woodstock, right? Those guys have been holding down the anti-war for longer than we've been alive, Dave. And so, and so, when and when by the way and how did they react when the cavalry arrived and some of the right wings started to be vocally against the war and the genocide they were thrilled i've talked to ben co and he's like yes finally the right wing is on our side that's how a person reacts when

they care about the issues when they care about the policies and the effects uh in the real world when they are not into the partisan games and the tribalism and do i want my audience to be larger than your audience. And yes, there was a portion there, not all of them, but a portion who were like, oh, it's a good opportunity to attack someone on our side to take their audience and say, aha, he's a heretic. He's talking to the witches. So he's a witch. Let's do a witch hunt, right? And who was right and who was wrong? And they sat in their caves and didn't do anything. And we got went out there and you did Dave, I did and so many others did who came out and said, no, no, no, no, no. Let's actually find a way to find common ground here. And to your point

about how important these issues are, and I'll finish by coming all the way back to Britain in a second. So I'm on British media today because of the ban. And I got into a little bit of argument with the hosts on LBC, whatever that thing is. And she's like, well, you said that this is one of the most important genocides of our lifetimes, but how about the Holocaust? I'm like, I wasn't around in the Holocaust. In fact, I always thought when I was a kid, I wonder what I would have been done during the Holocaust. Would I have fought like hell to make sure it didn't happen, or would I have been quiet? You know, you don't know until you're tested. Well, now we know, I would not have been quiet, right? And they would have told me, oh, you're fighting the Holocaust

in the wrong ways. You've offended the Germans too much in the way that you fought the Holocaust, right? So, but that wasn't in our lifetimes. Then she brought up Rwanda. And I'm like, wait, is your main argument that this genocide is not quite as bad as Rwanda or Yemen? And hence it's okay. Like, that's the worst argument in the world, right? And so, and we didn't pay for Rwanda. We halfway paid for Yemen through the Saudis, right? So, like, and you were right to be livid about Yemen.

And I was living about Yemen. Well, and we conducted it with them is the big one as well. I mean, our Navy was doing the blockading and our, but yes, to your point. Yes. I mean, look, again, if you want to get into, again, look, you could make an argument that Obama start in the Civil War in Syria or Toplin Gaddafi in Yemen or something. Like, if you want to get into arguments about what was the bigger like catastrophe for humanitarian, it is kind of debatable. I think the thing that kind of like changes Gaza particularly is, and then this just does change the morality of it, much like with the Holocaust with Hitler and the Jews, is that. Those were his citizens, you know? And even though they don't call them, they don't call the people of Gaza Israeli citizens,

they're a captive people. You've had them since 1967. Those are your people, whether you claim them or not, in the same way that the slaves were, you know, George Washington's responsibility, whether he claims them or not. And so there is something particular about like a captive people that cannot leave because you make them not allowed to leave. and then just destroying their civilization while you hold it,

to me, there is a moral difference to that. Yes. To your point, once you've gotten down to the point of where you're comparing this to other, you know, humanitarian catastrophes, it's like, okay, fine. So they're all very, very bad then. Let's be against all of them. And like I said, we didn't pay for Rwanda, but I'll end on. Right.

Right. So we're being forced. Like, we have to go get a second job to pay for Israel's wars and genocide. It's insanity, right? So now, Dave, I'll end on this. So, you know, if in 1942 people were like, no, you shouldn't have an alliance against the Holocaust because we've got a disagreement on taxes or Medicare or something, we'd be like, yeah, yeah, yeah, no, those are important. Those are really important. But we're going to get to them after we end the Holocaust, right?

So some things are more important than other things. So if you come and say, hey, let's do an alliance against this war so that we don't kill. 200 more little girls in Iran, so we don't waste $8 trillion more on needless wars in the Middle East, so we don't have, you know, 76,000 at a bare minimum slaughtered in places like Gaza. Yeah, that's more important. And that's a thing that we've got to tackle first. Doesn't mean the other issues aren't important and that we're not going to tackle them. But even more important than that, and what could possibly more important than war and genocide,

is our own sovereignty. because if we're not making the decisions and we're not in charge and it's not a democracy, then it doesn't really matter, right? Because all of our opinions are useless. No one in power is listening to them. So that brings us back to the ban. So they say that I criticize Israel and hence were banned. Now, you know, historically, the British Empire, the gravest offense, was insulting the king.

If you insulted the king off with your head, right? Well, now I can insult the king. I can insult the British government. I can insult the American government. Any other government I want, I just can't insult Israel. So that means Israel is the new king. So I didn't make that declaration through their actions, the United Kingdom did. So we have them funding 94% of Congress here being the top lifetime donor to Trump, Biden,

and almost every one of our leaders. We have them deciding to ban people from Britain based on insulting Israel. So don't tell me that they don't exercise control. I was just the recipient of that control. I can no longer go to Scotland or London or Bath or anywhere in the United Kingdom because Israel won't allow it. So until you get your freedom back, until you get your sovereignty back, and we go back to Western civilization and not being run by a country the size of Papua New Guinea, then all the other issues are irrelevant because our debates are pointless. No one cares who wins that debate because we're not in charge. Neither side is in charge.

The people with all the money are in charge that are the donor class. So we have to defeat that first before we do anything else. Yep. I'm with you on that, man. Jank, I know you're a busy man. I really appreciate you taking the time out and coming on the show. And of course, everyone knows the young Turks. They're all over YouTube and every other platform.

But anything specific, you want to plug where people can find more of your stuff? Yeah, thanks, Steve. So thanks for having the conversation. I love talking to you. And I love smart people. Like that. Yeah. So, okay, two things, guys.

Number one, we have a 24-hour channel, and not everybody knows that. That's on Roku, Samsung, YouTube TV, now on Amazon Prime. So whichever platform you're on, just type in TYT, as in The Young Turks, and we'll pop up and, you know, watch all of our programming. It's a variety. It's interesting. Dave's on from time to time as a guest host on. Young Turks. And then the other thing is we're live 6 to 8 p.m. every day. And that's on YouTube, but also on every other platform that we can get on. So 6 o'clock Eastern live on the Young Turks,

me and Anna Kasparian, and sometimes Dave and sometimes Glenn Greenwald and sometimes Ryan Grim, et cetera. So we'd love to have everybody there. Thank you, Dave. Oh, thank you, Jank. Really appreciate it. And thank you guys for listening. Catch you next time. Peace.