Part Of The Problem - Daryl Cooper

Episode Date: October 24, 2025

Dave Smith brings you the latest in politics! On this episode of Part Of The Problem, Dave is joined by returning guest Daryl Cooper. They discuss Daryl's new podcast series, the cultural impact of WWI, and more.Preorder Lauren Smith’s book here: https://a.co/d/67djjBpSupport Our Sponsors:Kalshi - https://kalshi.com/daveSheath - https://sheathunderwear.com use promo code PROBLEM20My Patriot Supply - https://www.mypatriotsupply.com/problem\YoKratom - https://yokratom.com/Part Of The Problem is available for early pre-release at https://partoftheproblem.com as well as an exclusive episode on Thursday!PORCH TOUR DATES HERE:https://www.eventbrite.com/cc/porch-tour-2025-4222673Find Run Your Mouth here:YouTube - http://youtube.com/@RunYourMouthiTunes - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/run-your-mouth-podcast/id1211469807Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/show/4ka50RAKTxFTxbtyPP8AHmFollow the show on social media:X:http://x.com/ComicDaveSmithhttp://x.com/RobbieTheFireInstagram:http://instagram.com/theproblemdavesmithhttp://instagram.com/robbiethefire#libertarianSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hey guys, today's show is brought to you by yo-cratum.com, home of the $60 kilo. If you are over the age of 21 and you enjoy cratum, make sure to get your cratim at yo-cratum.com. It's all lab tested by third parties. It's all delivered right to your door. And it's the best price you will find anywhere, $60 for a kilo only at yo-cratum.com. All right, let's start the show. Hey, what's up, everybody? Welcome to a brand new episode of Part of The Problem. Very excited for today's show. Very quickly, before we start, a quick announcement. I know I mentioned this on the last podcast, just wanted to mention it again. But my wife, the most amazing person who I've ever met in my life, just released her first children's book.

And I'm really so proud of her. It's really amazing. It's up for presale right now on Amazon. It's called Healthy Hibernation. And it's just all about it's a really beautiful story for little kids about conversations about eating healthy and stuff like that. And it's kind of written from a perspective of a mother who's, you know, dealing with the challenges of going to a supermarket today and everything being brightly red painted poison that they're trying to get your kids to eat and her kind of talking about that. Anyway, it's sweet and beautiful and wonderful.

And it would mean so much to me if you grab the copy. It's available for pre-sale at Amazon. It's called Healthy hibernation. And it's just very nice. You know, me, I live in a world of a lot of dark stuff. and so does our guest who we're about to talk to but then you know there's also this other nice little wonderful world that's not yeah that's by the way a little window into my life is just me always being like the israeli's fucking bombs the negotiators and doma did you and my wife's like okay

she's got two packets of homework and i'm cooking dinner so and i'm like okay that is a more immediate concern perhaps for our family okay my guest for today's show uh somebody who as you all know i love and admire and just always really enjoy talking to both on and off air. He has been described as the most important popular historian. I've always found that description to be insulting. He is the most important historian, the only historian, really, that's ever existed. The legend Daryl Cooper, whose brand new series, Enemy, the Germans War, the first episode, has just been released. This has been obviously a very anticipated series. So, first of all, welcome back to the show how are you sir i'm great man so every time i'm nearing the end of one of

these episodes and i get to that last difficult portion of like what to cut and how to how to finish it up you know worrying about how it's going to be received and everything i get to the point where my brain just starts saying you're never going to finish this thing all your subscribers are going to leave your wife's going to leave you and you're going to kill yourself and so all at once when i hit you know submit on there to uh to publish it that giant weight just gets lifted off so it's very nice yeah i was you know i was literally just talking about this with uh my buddy but one of my closest friends uh lewis j gomez who's a really hilarious stand-up comedian and he's just uh obviously it's a bit of a different type of project but he just uh his hour special is coming out in the next

couple days i think he just put the trailer for it up and it's like a very similar thing where he's like dude you know there was a time when i loved this hour of of comedy and then i just got to a point where i hate it more than anything and now i'm just so glad for it to just be off my plate like it's out there and I can't control it anymore. By the way, it's a great hour, so go check that out. Check out both Daryl's series and Lewis J. Gomez's new comedy special. I don't think those two have ever been promoted together. So, you know, I got to say I listened to the first episode when it first came out. I'm a subscriber, so I got it immediately, loved it. And so I've been seeing some of the reaction to it. And I really did want to say this to you that

There is something that you've accomplished in this space, I hate saying this space, but in this new world that we live in, there's something that you've really accomplished that's really quite fascinating. You know, I see the thing that your podcast is like the number one history podcast on all these charts. This episode itself was like the number one podcast episode. I see that number. You got like almost 200,000 subscribers just on substack alone. And it's just, I don't know, it's pretty amazing to me. It's a real white pill. it's very encouraging that this type of like in-depth long form real detail oriented history show could get this much popular support like i'm you know you get to these points sometimes and i know i've seen you have this frustration i think almost all of us have where there's just there's so much stupidity out there that you're just like oh my god everyone shouldn't even be allowed to talk about politics this is too you know i was like getting in twitter arguments about you know

the dumbest things imaginable. And so anyway, it's just very nice to see that, wow, there really actually is such an interest in like deep dives into such, like, such important historical events and an openness to rethink about these things. And anyway, it's just, you know, there's a lot of people who get popular these days by talking about whatever the latest dumb culture war slop is or whatever, you know, whatever the latest silly thing is. And so it's just really cool.

It's a really cool accomplishment that you were able to build up such a big thing doing what you do. It's very gratifying. Yeah, and it is white-pilling, you know. And I think it probably has to do with maybe a combination of a few different factors. The first, just being that we're at a time in our own history, not just in the U.S., but really throughout the West, where people are really starting to question the narratives that they've inherited, you know, from the past. or even at least questioning, you know, at the very base level of those narratives. You know, and especially after just all of the lies that have been told to us

to such catastrophic effect over the last several decades, people are starting to wonder, like, about the people they've been told over the years, are their enemies, are their friends, what was good for them and what wasn't, you know, and who really benefited from them. And so, you know, that can go too far, obviously, and you just have to log on to Twitter to see how that can go too far a lot of times, you know, people start to question a little bit. And it's an understandable thing.

You look around and you realize how much you've been lied to about really, really important things and people, almost the natural thing to do at that point is to say, well, they're lying to me about everything, you know. And to kind of clan up with your own people and just say, well, at least these are my people, I can trust them just not to not to hate me and not to want to just openly lie to me to hurt me. So I'm just going to stick with that. And then we silo ourselves off. That's how I can go too far. But the fact that, you know, the structure has been a little bit wobbly. It has really opened up a lot of space for people to question things that they thought they knew. And I think the other

part, though, like maybe more fundamentally is, you know, people, you can go back 10,000 years. Human beings like to hear a good story. And I always try to, you know, I'm not, I don't pretend to be like somebody's history professor. Like what I try to do is I try to tell them the story of historical event in a way that makes them want to go listen to a history professor, makes them want to go buy their book and read that book. And, you know, and that happens a lot. You know, I get a lot of, a lot of people who, you know, you know how like back in school, there'd be like the smart kids and the dumb kids, right? And smart kids sat in the front of the class and the dumb kids sat in the back of the class. And then you go talk to one of the dumb kids about a 1986 Honda Civic. And you're

like, oh, this dude's like that 140 IQ or something. And it's just because he's engaged on that topic. Like somebody presented it to him in a way that grabbed him. And a lot of our education system just fails to do that. And so, you know, when I get emails from people, and I've gotten a lot of them from people saying that, you know, I always thought of myself kind of as just, I'm not the kind guy that reads a history book. I'm not the kind of guy that does that. I'm one of the dumb kids. You know, I sat in the back of the class. And then, you know, somebody just sent me your episode on this just because they thought it was badass and a good story or whatever. And I was two years ago and now check out my bookshelf. I've read all these. And it's like, it really just

changes the way they think about themselves because people are usually smarter than they think. You know, it's just a matter of being engaged. And so I try to tell a good story to make people want to know more and go out there and take the initiative for themselves. And, um, And I think that, you know, that's the way you have to be able to present it. There's a lot of really good researchers out there. There's a lot of, like, people who I consume their content, you know, for history podcast, things like that. But I sort of have to slog through it because it's just not a great story.

It's kind of a, it's kind of a bland lecture. And I, you know, and I say that with gratitude toward a lot of the people who I learn a lot from. But being able to try to tell it in a way that places the person into the story in a way that, you know, I mean, the events that we describe most history books describe are so overwhelming in the, you know, just in the level of human emotion that's involved in these things, you know, like that, you know, you really do a disservice to our own history in a lot of ways if you don't tell it in a way that really makes a person feel that. And I try to do that, and sometimes I succeed better than others, but it seems like this one's gone over well. So

Yeah. Well, I think there's something, and this particular, like this applies to me, too. But there's something where for people like me, I mean, look, I've never been to war. I talk about war a lot and I'm really opposed to it. But it's very easy for people when you're talking about something that you haven't experienced firsthand, particularly. It's very easy to talk about it. And this is how, again, as you said, a lot of those dry lectures that you're talking about do the same thing, where it's like okay here's the story of the war and it's like you know in this capital city they made the decision to attack this area and then they invaded here and then this happened and then this country

joined in and then and it's like and what even today talking about like the israel you know uh um gaza conflict or whatever you you could tell the story of like they took over this territory in 1967 and then they withdrew in 2005 but they didn't really withdraw but they withdrew but still control but then there's a whole different angle to the story of just being being like, hey, here, how about, here's the story. There's a seven-year-old boy right now. You know what I mean? Like walking through a street of rubble,

seeing a little piece of his mother's dress and they have no idea where she. And what you always try to do in your work is almost like, force the listener to come to grips with the fact that these are real human beings who were really existed just as much as you exist, as you always say, were a three-year-old, just the same way you were a three-year-old once.

And I gotta say, So in this first episode, which is already out, I don't want to spoil anything for the end. Who knows if the Germans win or not? We haven't gotten that far yet. But the first episode, you're talking a lot about World War I. It's all about World War I. All right, guys, let's take a moment and thank our sponsor for today's show, which is Kalshi. I've been telling you guys about Kalshi for a while.

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Well, actually, real quick, Dave. Actually, I thought it was just a story about a man with a violent past who launches an ultra-violent war against his enemies after his beloved dog is taken from him. okay well it's sure yes there's all there's all many different aspects here um but there's but like when you when you get into the description of trench warfare uh in world war one which i you know i i i guess i like to think in my mind that like i had a picture in my mind of what trench warfare looked like but i'm picturing like a group of guys and his buddies shooting out of their trench or whatever you know taking covers that's something i've seen in a movie but when you actually get into the details of like describing what these guys went through and what it was to live in a trench

you know and and you know go listen to the episode if you haven't already but the details of everything that they were dealing with and you know you just think about the fact that look even obviously it's a big ask to ask any of our boys to go fight in Afghanistan or Iraq and I'm not down playing what it was to go through that but this is like nothing compared to what these boys in World War I went through. And the fact that, I don't know, it's just, it's crazy. I guess it's part of being a human being as we have to be able to move on and go about our lives.

But like, this was only a little over 100 years ago. That is not that long ago. It's two of me and a 20-year-old ago, you know. And the fact that these were like 17-year-old boys by the tens of millions across the civilized world were put into this. It's like we should spend all day, every single day thinking about this.

Obviously, we can't because nothing would ever get done. But it is just so, it's so disturbing and dark and just important. And you really do have an ability to, like, bring it to life with your storytime. And then when you put it like that, you go, how could this ever be boring to anyone? This is the most compelling story you've ever heard of. Like, it's just crazy that anyone wouldn't be interested in this. Yeah, the crazy thing about the First World War was, you know, well, if you think back about how the whole thing unfolded, right?

After the Archduke got assassinated in 1914, and it was a matter of just over a month, all of Europe was at war. I mean, it was like peace, all of Europe is just slaughtering each other, like within a little over a month, right? And it wasn't, and again, you know, our guys and the people that they fight when they go to Iraq and Afghanistan, all those people go through a lot. It's a harrowing experience in a lot of ways. But it's also something that, you know, we have like two,

of duty. You know what I mean? Like you go out, you do your time, you do your mission, you come back, you recuperate for 18 months, and then maybe you go back out or something. This was not like that. This was, you're going into the trenches and you'll be done when the war is done. Or you get killed or you get too wounded to like man your, man your position in the trench. And so you just, this is your life. And for a lot of these kids who were 17, 18, 19 years old, you know, this wasn't a tour of duty they did. This was how they spent their young adulthood. And, you know, when you think about the fact that the soldiers who fought in this war were the colonels and the generals in the Second World War, their sons who saw their dads

can't come home or maybe not, they were the, they were the Vermat soldiers, you know, storming the Eastern Front or the Ardennes. And like, you have to, so you really have to understand like the, not just the individual trauma, but the generational trauma that took place here. I mean, this was something where, because again, like, you know, today we have this interesting, you know, because of maybe just technological changes, just the structure of our military is very focused on, I mean, we invaded a country, Iraq, with, you know, 130,000 people or something like that. And, you know, it's something that if you go to San Francisco, maybe,

a liberal area, San Francisco, and you talk to somebody, say, how many people do you know that have served in the military? Probably zero. If you go down to, like, someplace in Appalachia, how many people you know who have served in the military, like 40? You know, it's a very sort, it's almost like a cast now it's like a very kind of and most of the society is very closed off from it and they don't interact with these people on a regular basis in their personal lives and so it's almost this thing that like a part of our society you know does goes and does and then they come back from and their dads and their uncles did it and you know it's just this closed off thing this was a situation where like if you were able-bodied and you weren't working in a munitions factory already or working in like a steel

an iron mine or, you know, something like that was absolutely critical to the war effort, your ass was going to war, and you were going into those trenches. And you had this, and so this was something that was just shared by all these regular people, you know, volunteer military is just very different, you know. These are guys who have some idea what they're getting themselves into, even if they're joining for college or something, you know, if you join the army and go into the infantry, especially these days, you have an idea that you might get put to use. These guys just got ripped from their lives.

These are students and clerks and school teachers and whatever who got ripped from their lives an entire generation and just sent into a war that nobody really had any clear idea of how it was going to go when it started. You know, and by the end of the first few months, by the time they settled down into the trenches when that initial push, you know, kind of came to a halt, everybody kind of realized this is crazy and we have no idea really how to move forward on this. I guess we're just going to keep throwing bodies at the enemy lines and see. Who Breaks First. And to be just one of the bodies in that story, you know, that's the part that is really hard to fathom. You know, I mentioned in the episode, I talked about my buddy Jocko, how, you know, he always says, you know, give him Thermopylae, give him the worst, you know, tour in Vietnam, whatever.

He wants nothing to do with the trenches in World War I. And it's not even so much because of the level of suffering. He probably almost relished that. a degree. It's just that you're in a war where nothing you do matters. Like if you die or don't die, your buddy dies or nobody dies or the mission fails or succeed, whatever it is, it has nothing to do with how hard you train, how hard you try, how committed, nothing has nothing to do with it. And the guys in the war, some wars, that is always the case, you know, but you can kind of give yourself the illusion of agency in some way. You could not do that in World War. You're just

this piece of meat sitting out there in the cold, you know, with covered in fleas and lice and chasing off rats from trying to nibble on your earlobe while you sleep. And you just might die randomly, you know. And it was just, you get into the point where like in 1916, you're talking about like a couple dozen people a minute being killed in the First World War for 365 days of the year, you know, just total madness. And it really like also to zoom out, because you know, I like to zoom in on like the individual experience, but to zoom out, you know, you know, it really gets you thinking about our just social and political structures when you realize that the people who were the statesmen, the people who were like the high level responsible decision makers, that they didn't have some way to like extract us from this

situation once it was clear to everybody that this is crazy. And it just went on for years until one side broke down, you know, and that's it. And it would have gone on for several more years. I mean, you know, Winston Churchill wrote about, let me get myself in trouble here. he actually wrote this so i won't get in trouble but he talked about how it's a good thing the war ended in 1918 because 1919 1920 like if it had gone on if the germans because the german lines never really fully broke you know and they and as they retreated back to germany you know a line that was this this big from the you know from the english channel to switzerland was getting smaller and so even though they had fewer people they had less you know area to cover and defend they could have they could

kept it going for a little like maybe maybe another year to whatever but churchill talks about how if it didn't end that year there are already plans in the works for flying over and just gassing german cities i mean that's like the level of madness that not even just you know churchill everybody knows i think he's kind of a kind of a psycho but this he's not the only one i mean this was like where things were going and everybody who kind of was in that mindset by that point and you say man like you know it blows your mind how when something like that happens, the entire focus of the entire planet after that is, okay, we need to make sure that never happens again, ever, you know?

And that's kind of the opposite of what we did. You know, we treated, unfortunately, the allies really treated it like a victory in any other war. We won, you lost, ha, ha, ha, you know, give us what's ours. And it planted the seeds for the next one. Yeah, that's right. And I think that the, you know, in terms of zooming out or the connection, I guess, in a way between like zooming in and then zooming out, is that it's kind of, it's impossible to understand what comes next without the context that this had just happened to like an entire generation of people. You know, like in your, in your series, Fear and Loathing in the New Jerusalem, which I think is probably the up to now,

I think this is probably going to be your biggest series. But up to now, I think that was probably like the one that, you know, like most people, probably more than any other one, had been like, oh, that's the one that got me into the show, or that's the one that really blew up. You had this phenomenal series. And then, of course, after October 7th, this was the thing that people wanted to learn about. And so it really, it was a very good tool for many of us. But there's one point in the series where you start talking about the starvation that had impacted,

like Syria and that area before, you know, because you have to kind of understand in order to understand the mentality of these people that like, okay, five minutes ago, they were like eating their neighbors because they were that hungry. And what does that do to you? And that's true in general with World War II, where people, people, you know, like, it's like in the popular imagination of the normy person, it's like Hitler was crazy and the Germans went nuts and they just wanted to kill everything that moves. but like if you look at like say whatever if you look at the some stuff that I'm sure you'll be covering later in the series

but if you look at like the Ukrainians slaughtering Jews in 41 or something like that well you can't really completely remove how close this was to them being this huge starvation crisis you know what I mean like you'd wonder like oh that might have something to do with how brutal this group of people might be you know a few years from now and likewise if you think about World War II and just the level of brutality there and you think that there's like okay the 20 year olds are out doing the fighting or whatever but like the 40, 50 year olds are making the decision as the way society typically runs you're like yeah but what did they come up

in? They came up in World War I as being something that I guess was already at least within the realm of things that possibly could happen to your point what's already set up at the end of the first episode of this show is of this series is that like

Right. The only lesson could have been that that was the war to end all wars. Like, oh, my God, what a disaster. I guess we all had to get together and decide never to do that again. But you do kind of go in knowing that we actually decided to do it again and worse and in greater numbers than that. And, I mean, again, like, no matter what side of any issue you're on, like, what a tragedy of unthinkable proportion that we had two goddamn world wars in the last. entry. Yeah. And, you know, the next episode is going to, I was going to get into it some in this one, but I just sort of ran out of time. The next one's going to get into something that a lot of people don't know as much about. Like, everybody kind of understands, especially if they're

listening to a history podcast, they probably have some idea that the World War, World War I was, you know, a catastrophe and human suffering on an enormous scale and everything. But what people know less about, especially in the victorious, you know, allied countries in the U.S. and in Britain and the rest of us is what was happening after the war ended for us. Because from Germany all the way to the Pacific Ocean, you know, from the rind of Vladivasta, every government that had existed before the war collapsed in about 18 months. No police, no social services, no nothing. And there was civil war.

There was revolution everywhere, literally from Central Europe to the Pacific Ocean. And I mean, you know, so while we're over here sort of celebrating the end of the violence, in a lot of places, you go to, you know, the further east you go, the worse it gets. By the time you get to Russia, I mean, their war is just getting started. You know, they're going to lose a lot more people in the Russian Civil War than they lost in the First World War. And even in a place like Germany, which was pretty muted compared to Russia, everything was, you know, those kids who were 25-year-old Vermat soldiers in the Second World War, you know, they may not have been in the trenches. Maybe their dads weren't even in the trenches. Maybe they were munitions workers or something. But in 1919, they're looking outside their window and they're seeing German people,

revolutionaries and right-wing militias, firing artillery at each other in the streets. They're seeing dead bodies laying outside their house on their street, you know, people being put up against the wall and executed. And these are the kind of things that were going on. And so, you know, the lesson for a lot of people, unfortunately, after the, after the, the First World War was, you know, you can accomplish pretty much anything by force. If you just apply enough violence, look at the, you know, the Bolshevik revolution. You know, there's a reason that after that happened in 1917, you started to see mutinies

on the French lines. You started to see a lot of revolutionary activity in Germany and everything, because people realize, like, oh, we can just kill everybody that disagrees with us. And, yeah, maybe it's ugly or gross or whatever, but the world will get over it. and we'll get over it. And if we win, we'll tell a story to our kids. It's different than the one that happened. And that'll be that, you know, but it will create the world that we think, you know, that we want to live in.

And that really is the lesson that a lot of, that a lot of people took from it. And again, like you just says, really the exact opposite lesson that you would have hoped. All right, guys, let's take a moment and thank our sponsor for today's show, which is Sheath Underwear, legendary Sheath Underwear. I love this company. They've been a longtime sponsor on the show. And I always love when there's a product that I can absolutely stand behind that's on the show. And Sheath is that the most comfortable pair of boxer briefs you will ever own.

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That'll get you 20% off your order. One more time, that's sheathunderware.com. promo code problem for 20% off. All right. Let's get back into the show. Right. You know, it's interesting because obviously, you know, well, I mean, everybody,

your situation here, which is very, it's really unlike anything that I've ever seen before. But obviously, so when you went on Tucker Carlson's show, there was a big controversy about some comments you made about World War II and then you're doing this big World War II series coming up after it. It's kind of, so that's part of what's built this anticipation for the final product. But it really is, and I felt this way, you know, the whole time, it's just so bizarre, the dynamic where everybody could look at what nobody could deny

is just like the greatest tragedy or you know however you want to imagine it up there with the greatest tragedies that have ever happened like by the numbers the worst thing that's ever happened in the history of the world and yet there is and this is part of what's interesting with starting with world war one is because none of that radioactivity exists around world war one nobody can even give you a real reason why the hell we fought the thing or any type of like justification today that especially knowing how it worked out in the aftermath that yeah that That sure was a good idea that America got involved or that Europe had this war at all to begin with. But there is so much radioactivity talking about the Second World War.

And so what ends up happening is in a way everybody kind of fills in the blank. Not everyone, I should say this. The people who are, let's say, get very triggered by the comments that you made on Tucker Carlson's show or any type of World War II revisionism. It seems like much like kind of, you know, during like the, you know, during wokeism, if you could think the way like left wingers tended to treat infractions, they almost finish your thought for you. You know, so like if you even start to say, well, I think Churchill was wrong about all of this, therefore you're saying, and Adolf Hitler really was a good guy and this was a model

society and that's what you'd like to see again. You know, like there's the, I remember, you know, as I'm sure you know, so Charles Murray after he wrote or co-wrote the bell curve and then he wrote a separate book that was all on the topic of race and IQ. And if you read any of his stuff,

Charles Murray is like, first of all, he's like a moderate libertarian and his conclusion of the whole argument is that he's arguing for welfare. That is actually essentially what his point is. He concludes like this is why we need universal basic income and because basically the information age

is going to discriminate against low IQ people. Now, he points out at certain points that there are different, you know, average IQs amongst different racial groups, but it's almost like as soon as you just mentioned that, people just finish the sentence for, oh, so you're saying we should kill all of them, or so you're saying, therefore, we should enslave them or something. And so it's, you're always, you always get this kind of like, well, look, I mean, whenever anybody even comes at you, right, which people may notice, the criticism is always either the way they interpret a comment that you made on Tucker Carlson show where they're adding something that they're saying he meant to be saying this

even though you're going no I didn't mean to say that or they'll say okay he was he was shit posting on Twitter or he's friends with this guy who he bought their mug or you know whatever it is but no one's really taken on the work you know like nobody's ever I was in this weird paddle that I probably should have done on Pierce Morgan where it was like three on one all about you and it's like Babylon B guy and Pierce Morgan and what's his name of the Roberts world-renowned historian is there too and they're all and at one point in this day they're all just beating me up and it's like okay I'm not going to convince them here but at one point I just go hey have any you guys like consumed any of Daryl's work and it's like no I'm the only one

there who actually who actually listens to your stuff and so it's just I don't know I guess it's a long ranty question but it's kind of like you know whenever you do something like this people are going to misinterpret it you know then obviously you have your audience who you know is going to actually be very interested in what you have to say but what is what really are you trying to say with this whole series like not in other people's fun house mirror version look at it but what do you you know kind of what is the the comment without giving the whole series away because it's not all out yet but what is the comment that you are

trying to make revisiting this chapter in history yeah with all my long series a A lot of times I have an idea at the beginning of the series of where I'm going with this and what I'm trying to say. But that changes by the time I get to the 12th, 15th hour or something. That happened with the Jonestown series for sure as I started to develop like a lot of sympathy for the people who were in that movement. And the same thing with the series about early Zionism and the conflict over there where I kind of thought, you know, because I had come from a place of just sort of having your basic conservative Fox News. of what was going on in the Middle East, that when I really started to read heavily on it, I was kind of very shocked by this. And I was like, wow, I got to tell kind of the other side of the story. But then as I went on, you know, I really developed a lot of sympathy for everybody

involved, for the most part, you know? And over time, that's kind of become my MO, I guess. You know, and that's something that's harder to do when you're impulsively responding to people on Twitter or something. But when I sit down to do my podcast alone in my office, you know i force myself to do that and if i feel myself veering off course on that particular thing like i'll you know i'll stop everything until i correct it and because again the bottom line is that everybody involved in these absolutely insane extraordinary circumstances we're just human beings you know they they're not different than you you know whether you're talking about uh the palestinian mother who's pulling her kid out of the rubble she feels the same thing you would feel pulling your kid

out of the rubble, the exact same thing, you know, and that kid's big brother who just turned 19, you know, and has a couple buddies in Hamas or what he feels the same thing you would feel if that was your little sister. It's the same, you know. And, and you have to always just start every story from there, that these are human beings going through these experiences. And when you think of the fact that, you know, just imagine, like in the modern world, if you were to walk out your door one day to go to work and there's just a mutilated dead body on your on your you know in your driveway or something well people are going to be in therapy for the rest of their lives that we're yeah you know and there's a lot and this is like something that happened one time that

you can very easily kind of theoretically like compartmentalize and say this was an insane thing that happened it'll definitely never happen again who has this happened twice in their lives you know but still it'll traumatize you for real change the course of your personality development, you know, probably. And so when you have these people who spend their lives or big chunks of their lives where this is just the daily reality, you know, you have to kind of understand that they're going to develop differently, you know, in their minds than somebody living in a safe, peaceful places. And, you know, as far as like the controversy that pops up, I mean, I've really found, especially since that Tucker interview, and this is something

I might have said before, but it would have been, it would have been theoretical and it's not anymore, is as long as you got real tight relationships with your group of friends and family and community, people in your community, it's all just noise, honestly. Like, even being denounced by the White House and getting hit pieces in like the biggest papers in Europe and you, it's all just noise. You know, you can turn it all off and go hang out with your friends and it really just fades into the background if you just don't let yourself get too caught up. And it, you know, that might not have been the case 10 years ago, 15 years ago, you know, thank goodness for the way things have changed. You know, after that Tucker interview, for example, the CEO of Substack,

who I'm buddies with, he's a fan of the show, they hit me up immediately after that, totally without me reaching out or anything, just to say, hey, just in case you're thinking about it, don't worry about anything. Like, we got your back. And the other, like, sort of point of failure in that chain would have been the payment processor, they used Stripe. One of the guys that I'm in a group chat with really doesn't know me that well, but we've spoken in the group chat. He's one of the major investors and on the board of Stripe, they got a hold of me and said, hey, just so you know, don't worry about it.

And so that's a new world. And I sympathize with the people who were a little too early on some of this stuff. You know what I mean? Like 10 years ago, they could have crushed me like a bug. And I'm very grateful that that's not the case now. But as far as, like, the emotional and psychological, you know, a toll that something like that takes, as long as you have strong personal relationships, you know, again,

like all of it really does fade into the background. No, dude, you're so right. And I remember I talked about this a bunch on the show, but I was saying the same thing about myself just after doing the Douglas Murray debate. I just like, I had never, and I'd been on a lot of big shows before, but I'd never, like, had that type of reaction. Like, it was like, you know, you, it's just, different when you watch it happening to everyone else. I've watched it happen to a lot of different

people, but it was like, oh, like, they're, they're out for me now. And like, you know, there's pieces being written in the New York Post and on all these things that I shouldn't be on this podcast and I shouldn't be platformed. And of course, you were also included in those, almost all of those. It was, it was almost one more kind of part of your controversy weirdly, because that's how the show started. And then that's how the articles were written. But I remember just being, like, oh, thank God this happened now. Because like even five years ago, this might have been a much more tenuous situation, whereas now it was just kind of like, I don't know, Elon bought Twitter, they're on this thing that they're not kicking people off. This is such a high profile

thing that if they were to kick me off right in the aftermath of this, it would be like a obvious contradiction. You know, Zuckerberg's trying to be cool now. YouTube doesn't seem to be flagging like they used to also like Tucker and Rogan have my back and I got my friends and I have my audience like I'm fine but it did it did make me think the same thing like man there were a lot of people who came before me who really got ruined and some of them for no more than what I was saying or what you are saying like there there were people who maybe were even going a bit further but there were people who didn't even go as far and and were kicked off for for much less and really silenced um and so yeah that's that's a important thing to remember it's also like there's there's a

weird i don't know i guess it kind of like you have to split this into groups where obviously there were a lot of people who were let's say intentionally misunderstanding what you were saying and then you've got a lot of people who love you and support you and know what you're you're saying but i guess maybe to the the people in the middle group like the honest observer out there who maybe isn't sure what this is all about because it does seem you know like I I was posting this on Twitter the other day I thought this was kind of an interesting like experiment and so I'm not I haven't been like paying super close attention to the New York City mayoral race I don't live in New York City anymore and like I just I've been I focused more on national politics um but I you know I paid a

little bit of attention to it and I think it's an interesting dynamic and I posted a thing on Twitter where I was like, look, just to everybody, first of all, I would not vote for Mom Donnie if I was in New York. I don't vote for socialists, and I don't vote for people who say defunding the police is queer liberation. Like, that's just a rule of thumb for me. But I was like, but everyone's acting like this guy is like a rabid Jew hater. So just like, hey, I'm not really following the race. But like, so what is it?

Like, what's the worst Jew hating thing he's ever done? And my feet is just flooded with, you know, people just being like, are you crazy? he you know he he he he chants globalized the intifada and i'm like okay does he when has he chanted that it's well he refused to denounce it you know or he refi and then like you get whittled down to it and you're like wait what is the worst thing here like but again it's always look i'm not even saying it's impossible like maybe he's a secret jew hater and that's his wink and a nod to the other jew haters to let you know i hate them too but it's just like that's just be clear that's what you've got here your argument is that there's a secret agenda

that they're not telling you, but it just kind of feels like ghost hunting. And I just, I see this a lot. And obviously, it's particularly true whenever you talk about World War II, that there are this huge, you know, it's the, the idea that particularly amongst Jews, but not just amongst Jewish people, like amongst non-Jews on that side, too. It's almost like they, they, in their mind, they're like, this is a dog whistle, no matter what you're trying to say, the point of doing this. And I don't know, it's an interesting dynamic, because you almost like,

Like, to me, the response to that is that, okay, what your allegation here is that the plan is to be a secret Nazi and lead the secret Nazi movement without ever admitting that you are one or like. And so I don't know. I guess it's like a weird challenge to have. Because they're well known for being shy about their beliefs, you know. Well, right. But like what? I don't know. Like because then all the Nazis will love you even though you're not really saying what they want you to say.

but you are winking and nodding at them. It just seems like, like, I don't know. It's a difficult test to be like, how do you break people out of this spell and go, hey, isn't it slightly more of a reasonable guess that he just means what he's saying? Like, he just means what he said. Like maybe Mom Donnie just means,

some people don't mean, when they say Globalize Antifada, they mean different things than other people mean. And so I don't want to condemn all of that. Like, maybe he just means that. It just seems like a more reasonable guess to me. Yeah. But, you know, when you, one of my favorite examples of this actually is, I think it was actually on that Pierce Morgan hit that you did with Seth Dillon, where at the beginning of the interview, he called me a Holocaust denier. And then later on in the interview, because it was the panel, because it was pretty long panel, like, you know, enough time had passed. I guess he forgot he said that. You brought up the fact that he didn't mention the Holocaust in this, you know, segment that everybody's talking about at all, like didn't come up. And he goes, well, There you go. Just the fact that he was talking about World War II for 15 minutes and didn't bring up the Holocaust. What does that tell you? And it's like, when you get to that level, it's like there's nothing really. There's no conversation to be had, you know? Well, someone said to me once, I can't remember who it was if this was Seth or not. I don't want to say it was him if it wasn't. Somebody else said this. And I did not catch this until I went back. Oh, no, it must have been Alex Berenson, I think, said this. But I didn't catch this till someone said, because you know, sometimes in these debates, especially when they get as childish and heated as that one. You know, you don't hear everything that said. but he goes at one point someone he said something about like darrell doesn't care about

jews suffering in the holocaust and i was like well like i mean he did did you listen to the like section of his fear and loathing that covered the holocaust because like it just didn't seem to me like he was downplaying it and i said i don't know i guess like i go if you listen to and i said if you just listen to the opening section that's describing a pogrom against the jewish family and then listen to the section talking about the holocaust it's maybe an hour total or something like that ago it's going into pretty graphic detail and demanding that you empathize with the innocent Jews who were just caught up in this situation and just got totally fucked over right like he's asked yeah and then he goes oh yeah he loves talking about dead

jews and you're like oh whoa hold on hold on hold on hold like stop the presses right now and just be outraged at the level of intellectual dishonesty here you are starting by calling someone a denier. And then when I go, here's him talking about the Holocaust, you go, yeah, he sure is obsessed with talking about dead Jews. Like, dude, yo, who can defend that? And so that, you're right, there is a level of intentional dishonesty there. Although I do think, I think you're kind of, you're correct on this where you've talked about that. Oftentimes, particularly in the Jewish community, it is, it does feel like it's not just dishonesty exactly. It's more of a like, a real paranoia that you're watching where there is this it's almost like they are convinced in

their in their mind that the only answer for this is jew hatred and it's it's there somewhere and so if it's not there you know in this door well then it must be there from the other to okay he wasn't denying it well then he must be celebrating it and it is it is something that it's been very personally difficult for me because you know having the positions that i publicly have and being Jewish and having Jewish family. It's been very difficult. I'll tell you, I really have struggled with how exactly to snap some people out of that and go, look, man, like, and especially, as you know, it gets reinforced now because you go on Twitter and you do see it so much like Jew-hating stuff. But it's like, you know, to be like, okay, that is real. I get your point about that,

but it is not true that behind every door in the heart of every white person is this eternal Jew-hater just waiting to pop out. Like that, I just don't think is true. All right, guys, let's take a moment and thank our sponsor for today's show, which is My Patriot Supply. The cold weather will be here before you know it. The trees outside my house are already shedded most of their leaves. And you know what I start thinking about this time of year is what if the power goes out when it's really cold? What if you have no way to keep yourself and your family warm? It's not crazy.

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This offer won't last long and neither will this nice fall weather. So go to my patriot supply.com slash problem today. All right. Let's get back into the show. Yeah, it's, look, I mean, on one level, it's a paranoia that was well earned. Right. You know, it didn't come out of nowhere. And when I have that discussion with people, you know, they'll often say, like, it's not paranoia if, like, they're actually out to get you.

And I always tell them, yes, it is. You know, the paranoid complex is still self-destructive and bad for you, even if you do actually have reasons to be worried about things. like it's not a matter of like rational fear it's a matter of projecting this onto everything that you see i often uh point out like my you know my wife's armenian and if you go to a family event and you start talking good about the turks or the Azerbaijani's you're going to get an earful you know if you're lucky um but you know they see the like the armenian genocide as the culmination of their kind of toxic and hostile back and forth centuries-long relationship with the Turks. They don't see it as the culmination of this eternal war that mankind is waged against the Armenian people since time

and memorial. And, you know, on one level, like that story is what held the Jewish people together for thousands of years in exile, you know, people without their own country who were spread out all over the world and somehow managed to maintain enough cultural continuity and self-identity that when the opportunity arose, they were able to come back together and go start a nation-state of their own. Amazing. Just from a pure, forget the, like, you know, the morality of it, the geopolitic, incredible that that was able to happen. And one of the major ways that was able to happen was having this sort of, you know, somewhat just paranoid relationship with the rest of the world. And again, throughout history, very often well-earned paranoia, you know.

But the thing is, I mean, you read about paranoid people who, I did this a lot in my Jim Jones series. I read whole, you know, books, the shelves of books about the paranoid complex because it's so important to what happened in Jones Town. Most people who collapse into paranoid delusions have a good reason. Like, it started from something very real and traumatic that happened to them, you know. I think that it's kind of, it's just a normal thing to do, you know, especially when it's so recent. I mean, you really have to, like, just like I try to do with, like, a lot of the villains in history in some of my episodes, whether it's Jim Jones or the Germans or Zionists and Palestinians, whatever, I always try to, in myself and in my listeners, get people to understand that these are human beings having natural human reactions usually under the circumstances, you know, and at the very least, even if they are having an unnatural reaction or one that you can't, you just can't comprehend. And understand they've gone through things that you cannot comprehend, you know. And so when you're one generation removed from millions of your people not being killed in war,

not starving to death, you know, because the crops are failing because there's a war on or whatever, but being rounded up and executed, you know, rounded up and killed. And not by, you know, because they, they, you know, it would almost be like if Israel lost a war, you know, and the Arabs were everything that Netanyahu tells us they are, and they swept in and just killed millions of people, you know, in Israel and everything. That would be less traumatic than what happened in Europe, because, you know, like, this is the, this is the country, Germany's the country that gave us, you know, Beethoven. I mean, this is a GERDA, you know, this is a, this is as civilized countries you're going to find and still this happened. And when you have

a sort of a mythology, a cultural mythology, the thing that's held you together, you have actual like holidays throughout the year where you commemorate all the terrible things that happen to you and how you survive them and then something like this happens you know it's really it's really no wonder but i do think that and so and so when like a sort of ordinary jewish person like has this kind of response to hearing anything about world war two other than the standard narrative because you know again for for a lot of jewish people and again totally understandable um the second world war this global conflict tens of millions of of people dead, just the craziest thing that ever happened. What it's about, what the story's

about is the Holocaust. If you ask a lot of Armenians, what's World War I about? It's about the Armenian genocide, right? And so that's totally understandable. And when you're only a generation or so removed from something that traumatic, it's, I mean, what do you expect? You know, I think I, I don't think I've talked about it on this show, but when I was at Tucker's live event in Fort Worth, he had Roseanne Barr on as his guest. And she was telling this story not in the way at all that it hit me. She's telling it in a different way, almost like just sort of throwing it out there, you know. She said that when the Eichmann trial happened, she was like four years old, five years old or something like that.

When the Eichmann trial happened back in the 60s and her parents had her watching like all of these videos like bodies being bulldozed into pits and, you know, just people being lined up and shot and all that and saying, and really like drilling into her. like this is what happened and this could happen again and we need to make sure it doesn't and all that she said she had like weird twitches and nightmares and stuff for years after that and then she you know this was really just about like i think she was talking more about just the evil that's present in the world that we have to be aware of or whatever but i listen i was like good lord man that like i understand because her parents were alive when that happened so i get it but still like that borders on child abuse you know and her parents ought to have been more responsible than that and so when ordinary Jewish people have that response, I try to be very sympathetic.

I was talking to actually a rabbi the other day, like in DMs, moderate guy, very smart guy. I won't say his name because, you know, it's in confidence, I guess. But, you know, I told him that, like, Jewish leaders have a responsibility, like those, like her parents had a responsibility to not ramp up the paranoia and hostility with, you know, imagined or otherwise with the rest of the world, but to walk that back, to like pull people back from the brink and kind of, you know, try to try to bring your people from a place of, you know, where they were in, you know, after VE day in 1945 where it's just like they're just waking up

from the nightmare to like, now you have to start to, you know, really wake up from it. And, you know, again, like even talking about this is very difficult because, you know, there are people out there going to hear what I'm saying and think that I'm saying that Jews have nothing to worry about, that there's nothing going on. This is all projection or to the extent that it does exist, you're bringing it on yourselves, you know, by this paranoid relationship. I'm not saying any of that stuff. I'm just saying like, just like I tell, you know, I wrote a whole post about this.

I got a ton of crap from the Groyper's and everybody else about it. You know, it was telling people, it was a message to the anti-Semites out there back, just in general. And I told him, like, look, man, like, I get all the things you're going to say, I know it. I've heard it. All the books you're going to tell me to read, I've read them. I know about the Jewish overrepresentation in the Bolshevik Revolution. I know about what happened after the first.

I know all that stuff. I get it. But whatever you think, filling up your heart with hatred so that, like, you're stomping around angry at home and, you know, you're being snappy with your children and your wife. and it's because those darn Jews are up to it again. Like, that is not good for anybody. Like, you cannot let yourself fall into that pit, you know? And so there's these negative emotional responses that can really become, like,

the defining aspect of your personality. It's one of the, you know, I do think that's one of the things that's very unique about anti-Semitism in general, you know, is, you know, I mean, we've all seen this, right, where it's like, okay, so I don't think six million Jews were killed in the Holocaust, us, not me personally, but like, you know, hypothetical person. I don't think this, okay, fine, like that. We can argue about that. Now let's make that my personality.

Yeah. And that just happens, you know. And so it does make it sort of a little more alarming, a little more like it takes you back in a way more than if people have a revisionist view of other historical events, you know, because that does happen. And, you know, one of the other things that, you know, I really learned doing the Jim Jones series, though, is that paranoid people and the. people that maybe are hostile to them, like for real, because very often it becomes kind of a

self-fulfilling prophecy. They need each other. They feed off each other. They really need each other because both of them kind of come to define themselves in terms of that conflict, you know? And yeah, I just think that, you know, we should all be trying to, we should all be trying to walk back from conflicts like that, walk back from feelings toward each other like that. You know, we all have to live in this world together. Everybody's still going to be here tomorrow, whether we like it or not. And we got to live in that world, you know. And yeah, and that's, so trying to humanize people in my podcast. And, you know, I may be one of the reasons that I, that I do focus on people that are very difficult to humanize, you know, like, I mean, whether Jim Jones or

or the Germans during the world wars, I guess I mean, part of me, I just, you know, I'm from the old school internet. I like the troll and like be transgressive and stuff. But, but, but, but, really, when I'm sitting alone in my office, like working hard on the podcast, I just figure that if you can humanize these people, you can do it to anybody. And so, you know, let's push the boundary out to here of, I consider even these people, human beings, that then, you know, the things that happen in the news or in your daily life, like, it's a lot easier to pull that off, you know? Yeah. No, absolutely. That's right. And as you said, I mean, I think, and I really think that is, you know, I'm not a Christian, but I do think that's kind of like the most

fundamental Christian instance. We'll get you. We'll get you eventually. I got a lot of people working on me. But that is kind of the fundamental Christian belief, right? That like we are all on some level. We're all God's children. And that doesn't mean people can't do really, really bad things with that free will, with that pesky free will thing that he gave him. But it does mean that we all, we are all human beings. And there was always something to me, like this was, I mean, a fundamental part of why I just always connected with your work, why I connected with Ron Paul, when he was talking about blowback and why I still really reject you know the people who say like oh no the problem is Islam and as if like you know it's like hey guys we had one nine 11 and we all lost our collective

minds over that like are you really so sure that if you were in Gaza you would be like preaching you know Gandhi like peace or something like yeah I'm just I'm not so sure to your point though I think you know like Roseanne Barr is the example you use there I think who I think liked me well enough until October 7th and now really hates me but as I've seen said publicly, I don't care. I love you, Roseanne. It doesn't matter how much you hate me. I'll always love you. Wait, are you keeping her in a cage off to your right over there? She's there. She's here. She's here. I have two bunny rabbits and Roseanne Barr in separate gate, not the same size cage. But there is, you know, there is something where, I don't know,

it just seems like there's this new dynamic that we're, we're kind of witnessing, but also participating in where the legacy media has been destroyed, trust in institutions has been destroyed. There's this new error of free speech on the internet. Like people aren't getting kicked off for saying wild things that my entire Twitter feed is filled with things that would have gotten everybody kicked off just a few years ago. And I think we're all kind of at this point going like, hey, where is this all going? And let's root or try to steer as best we can this in somewhat of a positive direction. And in some ways, so like even, you know, talking to you about this, it's like, you know, from my perspective, I'm not even trying to make the Holocaust, you know,

the major story from World War II, as some might. I think it's an important part of it, but it's just impossible not to because it's the obstacle to being able to talk about any of this other stuff. It's the thing that's the white hot issue, that they'll go, oh, so what are you saying about this? Right. And in some way, I do think you're right that there's got to be, like the only answer is that there's got to be some way to have a cooling of heads here. I'd go, yes, of course, from the Jewish perspective, it made sense to be paranoid, okay? sure like it made sense to for the Holocaust to be the major takeaway of this story but also like from the non-Jewish perspective which is the majority perspective in this country it also makes sense to say

hey that's not the only takeaway from this story there's lots of other important things and also they don't particularly enjoy being treated as if they're about to be guilty of committing another holocaust when there's no reason to suspect that that's the case and um don't you know i mean a lot of are the descendants of people who went and, you know, fought for America or England or Russia, and why would they be responsible for the crimes of Adolf Hitler? You know what I'm saying? It's just there's a lot more complicated than that. And as is always the case with these conflicts, it's never quite as simple as one side is made

of pure good and the other side is made of pure evil. And there are no legitimate grievances on that side and no excesses of behavior on this side. And, you know, it's just a much more interesting, complicated story. in the actuality. Yeah, I mean, you know, the world is like this threshing floor that we all get thrown into. If you have the easiest, best, most comfortable life in the world, you're going to die. Everybody you know is going to die. You're either going to watch them die or they're going to watch you die.

All the things you care about, you know, if you were a Roman back in the day, you've got like some ruins left and everything, but all these things that just you poured your emotion and self-identity into are going to crumble. Eventually, like, your language is going to be forgotten. Nobody's going to know how to decipher whatever remaining texts they have left. You know, all of that is going to happen. And you could be in the most comfortable place in the world. And you can start dwelling on that stuff.

And life becomes really dark and really ugly very quickly because, I mean, this is something that nobody prepared us for this. We were just thrown into this, you know, and we're thrown into this world where, and some of us, again, obviously, like into parts and times in the world that are much more difficult and traumatic than others. others, but even the, even the easiest ones. Like, this is a, you know, we have, uh, we have a lot to overcome just to get through life and maintain our sanity and humanity, you know, until we do. And, um, trying to have that, uh, that outlook about people who, um, you know, are not only maybe just morally abominable to you in a, in an abstract sense, but are your personal enemies like you know um there's you can search through uh the religious texts all over the world you're going to find a lot of golden rules you're going to find a lot of things that um from the christian

message that uh you know you see reflected in others you're not going to find anywhere else this insane idea this insane demand that you should love your enemy and pray for those who curse you I mean that is when people say well that's insane I that's ridiculous I say yeah I mean I don't know yeah It is, you know, I can't really explain to you why it's a good idea or anything like that. You know, I just, it's just a matter of faith for me. But to take that idea and, like, really push it, I guess the only way that I would sell it to somebody is that if you can get past that hurdle, if you can do that, you will understand at that point why it was important. You know, it will transform you in a way that is ultimately for your better and everybody around you's, you know, betterment. And so that's the reason to do it.

It's not about whether, you know, forgiveness is not something that you do for the other person. You know, you do it for yourself. You do it to take that weight of hatred or anger, whatever, off of your own shoulders and put that down because it's not pleasant for you either. And, you know, that's what, that's what, you know, again, I wouldn't, I don't want to preach to anybody, you know, but as a Christian, like, that's what I think we're called on to do. And I, yep, fully, fully admit and accept. it's pretty much like the hardest and most difficult thing that you know could be demanded of us so yeah that is uh i i really think it's a beautiful of a beautiful concept and i think it really says something about the sickness of our society that that's viewed as such a like controversial awful you know what i mean like

such a controversial thing to say the demand that we have empathy for all sides and we insist on putting ourselves in their shoes um hey man thank you so much uh for taking the time and thank you you know just for all your work and for the thought that you put into it it really it really has helped me understand the world a lot better and i think that's true for a lot of people who listen to your stuff so let everybody know uh where they can go sign up uh and and join up you get i know if you sign up at sub stack as i do you get the episodes early which is is cool you get to get started on them before everybody else but uh yeah else you want to plug and i even feel bad about doing that honestly like i just um but um yeah so subscribe.

Martyrmaid.com is the substack. If you want to support, you can go there. There's a lot of content other than the history podcasts, a lot of essays with audio versions on a podcast feed, interviews, things like that, other podcasts that I don't put out publicly. Probably a couple hundred pieces of content at this point. And yeah, other than that, the podcast itself, you know, the history podcast is available free wherever you get them. YouTube, iTunes, Spotify. Spotify keeps taking mine down, but I'm working on that. So yeah, you can find them pretty much anywhere. And I just appreciate everybody listening. And as I always say, I said at the beginning of this podcast and every podcast, you know, the substack subscription, if you are into the podcast and you

want access to the exclusive content and five bucks a month, this is a lot right now. I've been there. I know what that's like. Just shoot me an email. And Martyrmaid at gmail.com, and I'll get you set up with a comp. Man, you are a much better historian than you are business. but that is a very nice thing for you saying oh and provoked and of course your other podcast with the great scott horton which is really excellent i love it i haven't missed an episode of it it's great so make sure you guys go check that out if you haven't already make sure you're subscribed to provoked every friday night five o'clock pacific eight o'clock eastern we go live now so you can jump in watch us live comment you know ask questions things like that but then it goes

up on youtube yeah that's right and uh yeah it's been absolutely a great show make sure you guys put that into your regular feed if you haven't already. All right. Thank you, Daryl. Thank you, everybody for listening. Catch you next time. Peace.