Piers Morgan Uncensored - "All a LIE!" Candace Owens vs Piers Morgan on Macron + Democrats Debate Future

Episode Date: August 5, 2025

President Macron and his wife Brigitte Macron have filed a lawsuit accusing Candace Owens of “relentless worldwide bullying” and a “campaign of global humiliation” over the repeated claim that Brigitte is a man. So far the main impact of the lawsuit has been to bring the claims to an even bigger audience - but many legal commentators think Candace ought to be worried. So is she? The host of The Candace Show joins Piers Morgan to discuss what she really thinks about the whole situation; and what President Trump said when he called her, at the request of the Macrons... Then - it seems the Democrats have never been less popular, with all major pollsters showing the party at record lows. They have no leader, and the public doesn’t seem to like any of the people who would like to be. With Kamala Harris rumoured to be vying for another chance, the Democrats are still deeply divided over which way they should turn. So, Piers asks a varied cross section of them what they think - welcoming legendary strategist James Carville, influencer Harry Sisson, ‘new wave’ Democrat running for Congress in Illinois Kat Abughazaleh and former Republican congressman turned Democrat presidential challenger Joe Walsh. Piers Morgan Uncensored is proudly independent and supported by: Jacked Up Fitness: Go to https://GetJackedUp.com and use code PIERS at checkout to save 10% off your entire purchase Pique: Get 20% off your order plus a FREE frother & glass beaker with this exclusive link: https://piquelife.com/PIERS Birch Gold: Visit https://birchgold.com/piers to get your free info kit on gold. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I don't think my series has gripped the entire world and caused a global leader to get on a plane and beg President Trump to shut me up because I'm just sitting there going, la, la, la, she looks like a woman in a wig. I received a phone call from Trump himself. He said he was very confused when Emmanuel Macron took him to the side of a car, wanted him to get in touch with me to make me talk speaking about his wife. They contacted that UK firm and had them go out to find a crisis PR team in America ahead of my series. You really are asking people to defy their common sense in this. moment. I admire your balls. I mean, probably the wrong term to use, given the issue we're discussing. $300,000 to charity. I say she's a woman. Are you prepared to take that bet? I am 1,000% preparing. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, who is packing stadiums in red states, by the way. That should be something

that Democrats would want to latch on to. Part of the reason we're in this mess is because of Democrats like James Carvel. Because she's going to talk about affordability and the issues that actually matter to people. Not this like whole made-up. a, you know, culture war issue and extends the national scale. Do you think that if J.D. Vance ran simply on trans issues and you had like a Gavin Newsom talking about affordability, do you think that people would actually go for J.D. Vance in that election? James, you said last week that Democrats have to let this trans stuff go. What is your reaction? My reaction is except to athletic governing bodies. I'm just not into the 400 meter dash at the

girls track meet. Canaboo, is Sydney Sweeney a Nazi? In 2026, certainly the issues are going to be the cruelty of grabbing brown and black immigrants in Home Depot parking lots. That's not what America voted for. Well, the massive lawsuit filed by the Macron's against Candace Owens is extraordinary and unprecedented on many levels. This is a world leader suing a U.S. citizen for defamation in a U.S. court. And the U.S. citizen is not a legacy news brand or a business mogul, but a successful point. which is a measure of the shifting balance of power and media. President Macron and his wife Brigitte accused Candice Owens of relentless worldwide bullying

and a campaign of global humiliation over the repeated claim that Brigitte Macron is a man. Macron has tried other methods of warning Candace to drop the issue, including, she says, asking President Trump to call her directly, which he did. Well, so far, the main impact of the lawsuit has been to bring the Brigitte claims to an even bigger audience with prominent coverage everywhere from NBC to see. CNN and the BBC. But many legal commentators reckon it's Candice Owens who ought to be worrying. So is she? Well, in a moment, I'll ask her. But here's a reminder of how we got here. I think you're a man. I think it's beyond obvious that you're born a man. You may want to

split hairs about, well, I'm really a woman. I feel on me inside. I'm a woman. An insulting wig that you're wearing. It's ridiculous. It's like you're laughing at us. What I'm saying is that You were born a man and you will die a man. It is very clear that Brigitte Trogno existed. It is very clear that she was, in fact, the sister of Jean-Michelle Trogno. And I think that if I am guessing what took place here, John Michel Trogno took Brigitte Trogno's identity at some point. It's plausible that Brigitte Trogno got sick, that the real Brigitte Trognoe got sick, that the real Brigitte Trogno got sick and perhaps had a dying wish to help her brother.

It's very early on, but I know that the process is supposed to be the pain, that they want to drag this out. I can't see them wanting to make it to discovery. I just don't see that happening. I think they'll fake kill Brigitte first. They'll be like, oh, Brigitte passed away from stress because of what Candice did. Well, the host of the Candice show, Candice Owens, rejoins me now. Candice, how are you? I'm doing well. How are you, Pierce?

I'm good. Are you a woman? I am in fact a woman and I certainly would never sue someone to prove to the world that that is a fact. I would probably be laughing. Well, how can you prove to me you're a woman if I don't believe you? I wouldn't have to. You could do 18 hours of a show saying that I was living as a man for 30 years. And the easiest thing for me to do obviously would be to just release pictures of me living, yearbooks, me on the cheer.

leading team, me pregnant, me with my children, raising my children, long before, if I ever got to the point where I thought that I needed to launch a lawsuit, I would probably just release a few photos if we're playing devil's advocate here. Yeah, but ultimately, the easiest and quickest and best way to prove to me that you're a woman, and I'm not disputing that you're a woman, I think you probably are, but I know you like to cast doubt on people's gender and sexuality, so I'll just leave it floating. hoping that someone in the internet world grabs it and makes me tons of money with a, is Candace male or female?

But my point is this, you would be able to prove it to me by taking a simple sex test, right? You would just say, here we are, here the results, here's the sex test. That's the best way to do this, right? Actually, because we were in communication with her legal team long before she launched this website, we never asked for something that deep. We literally gave her a list of 21, guess or no questions. asked her to just answer it on the record, also offered to fly over to Paris and interview Brigitte to get her side of the story before we even launched the first episode of the Becoming

Brigitte series. We were in communication and offered them a chance to rebut. And they came back and said, we don't have to submit anything to prove that she is a woman and we don't want to answer your questions. I've published those legal letters. It's the reason why people that watch this series are just not believing the media when they pretend that this was like, oh, Candace Warrie. at the blood of the first lady, no. Also, she's not suing. Obviously, my series was based on a book entitled, Becoming Brigitte, that I did alongside the journalist who worked on this story for 10 years. She's not suing him for defamation, but she is suing him for cyberbullying, which is really, if you read through the lawsuit against me, they are misrepresenting the things that I've said,

taking them out of context, and pretty much smearing me in the process by pretending that we ask something extraordinary by saying we won't run this entire series if you can just show us a few photos of you living in this 30-year period. Right. I don't think photos can be easily manipulated. We know that in the modern era. I just think a sex test is definitive. And the reason I'm asking you this

is because I'm assuming, maybe I'm completely wrong, maybe I'm the deluded one here, I don't think so, but I'm assuming the only reason that Brigitte Macron and her husband is a president of France are coming after you personally in American courts for defamation is that they know all they have to do to completely refute your entire conspiracy theory, which is what they say it is, is they just have to prove she's a woman. If she's a woman and she's had three children miraculously,

and I've seen your slightly torturous explanation for how she's managed to secretly have three kids and it wasn't her and she's a man. But I've seen what you've seen what you're you've said. But ultimately, if she proves she's a woman, which is very easily provable, your whole case just implodes, isn't it? Well, Pierce, it sounds like you're on our side. It's been 10 years of the press saying that she was born a woman. She sued people for cyberbullying. She sued people for speaking wrong about a document. And yet the easiest path would have just been to simply release photos from 30 years of your life. That is why this is unbelievable. You're also, I think, largely misrepresenting my series. You showed only

of me discussing things after the lawsuit, but you didn't actually show anything from my series. I don't think my series has gripped the entire world and caused a global leader to get on a plane and beg President Trump to shut me up because I'm just sitting there going, la, la, la, she looks like a woman in a wig. No, it's a very serious subject actually appears. And if you watched even the first episode of the Becoming Brigitte series, you'll understand there's an entire network of pedo criminals that are surrounding the Macron's. They have had multiple scandals regarding pedophilia that have just engulfed his presidency. And they are going after journalists.

And to be clear, these were mainstream journalists, not far right podcasters or however it's being presented in the media today, that were simply trying to do a biography on the First Lady. They were supporters of her. They were feminists. They wanted to basically glorify her as the president's wife. And they fell down a dark hole. cons and ass journalists, by the way. They fell on a dark hole because they felt suddenly

that they weren't able to get any answers to their basic questions. This was a mainstream issue in France. And so I think you do yourself a disservice when you misrepresented as if I'm just like sitting here going, la, la, la, she's wearing a wig, show the real excerpts from the becoming Brigitte series. It's incredibly compelling.

No, no, I saw that. Could ignore that it's strange. It's strange. Like 30 years of it. Why would you go through all this effort when you could just drop photos of 30 years of your life where you allegedly had three children? Where are your children, by the way? In defending you, wouldn't your kids, wouldn't your children come out down years and defend you by just dropping pictures of their childhood with you? Do you know her children won't do that and yet miraculously those same children do drop photos of their father?

All right, Candace, let me present another series of explanations for what's happened here. I believe, and maybe I'm wrong, all right, so let me put that caveat at the start here. Maybe you're right, okay? I don't think you are. I think you've been hoodwinked by these journalists who have gone on a complete fantasy trail of nonsense. It's trying to suggest Bridget McRoe never had three children, is a man, it's all a lie, and all the stuff that you've been doing on your channel and getting huge traffic for and making tons of money. So if you're right, it's been a magnificent display of fearless journalism

exposing a bombshell revelation about the First Lady of France. I absolutely make no bones about that whatsoever. But if you're wrong, as I believe, I genuinely believe you're wrong, then it leaves two avenues of explanation for why you would pursue this so aggressively. One, you've been duped by these French journalists. and secondly, worse, that you kind of know it's not true, but you've ridden the wave of conspiracy theory about it because it's been so lucrative

and it's gone around the world like you've been saying. And I think that is why they're suing you because ultimately they know that you've been amplifying this massively more than the journalist had in France, getting way more global traction, and it boils down to one simple fact. Not photographs, as you keep trying to distract me with, But a sex test.

If on day one of this case, she just produces an actual sex test report that says she's a woman, you're going to realize in that moment you've been completely duped. What do you do then? More and more Americans are putting their health first, getting back into shape.

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She's been in multiple lawsuits, involved in lawsuits, trying to shut journalists up. I mean, you really are asking people to defy their common sense in this moment. They know what has happened to. They know that we went to Brigitte before we started this series to get Brigitte's side of this. We were in contact with Brigitte's lawyers, the same ones that filed this case. We asked simple yes or no questions. We were not requiring a blood test.

We were asking, can you confirm this is you in this photo from the childhood that has been produced, ironically, by a woman who was charged for forging documents. That woman's name is Mimi Marchand, and she was the first couple's PR person until she got in too much trouble for being a gangster and forging documents. They refused and declined to answer those questions. So like I said, you are asking people at home to suspend their common sense and to truly believe that rather than answering yes or no questions, rather than maybe at first going after the author of the book, Xavier Pussard, who was a Frenchman for defamation, that would be the first thing. Why don't you launch, at least at the same time, both of these suits? I'm going to go after Candace and Xavier Pussard. They are instead only going after me for defamation and not the person who sourced this entire quote unquote rumor. there is, let me tell you, peers,

too many people who have watched this series, okay? They're watching your show now and they know that you are not accurately presenting what has happened here. But also, peers, I think you are better than defending a pedo criminal network, right? And that's the biggest piece of the story is how many people around them have gone down publicly. I mean, they were pedophiles and were involved in this campaign at the beginning. Even if you removed the allegation, which I believe from the bottom of my heart, like I said early on, I would risk stake my entire career on the notion that she was actually born, John Michelle Trugnow.

I believe that, right? And I'm willing to go through this because it's an important story about government deception. But even if you suspended that, you are right now defending a government that lied even about the beginning of their quote-unquote love story in which his parents removed him from school because of this creepy 40-year-old teacher who found a 14-year-old student to be sexy or attractive. This is wrong. Everything that's happening right now in France is wrong and it is perverted. And as a mother, I will stand up to this.

And I am confident that we will emerge as the winners of this because in America, truth is an absolute defense against defamation. And I am telling the truth. Yeah, it is an absolute defense. And I think there are perfectly legitimate questions about how their relationship started, the massive age gap, and the rest of it. I don't dispute that for a moment.

But, you know, as you say in a defamation case, it ultimately comes down to truth mattering. And it seems to me this whole case is going to be resolved in a very straightforward way, because the obvious way to prove that you're wrong and have been systematically lying about it, if you've been doing it deliberately or otherwise, but telling a lie about her, which has obviously caused an enormous amount of her, is if they just produce evidence she's a woman. Do you accept if they do that your whole case disintegrates? Of course it would dissent. Well, first off, no, they would have to prove the actual malice standard

in America, which would mean that we knowingly knew this. We went to them with questions and they refused to answer. That is very strange. You're saying you're a victim now because this series came out. And yet you had the power to stop the series when we came to you and said, we're not interested in telling any lies. We actually want to get to the truth of this story. And we asked very simple questions.

Did you ever live as a woman named Veronique? I believe, yes, Brigitte McCrone before taking on the identity of Brigitte Trucno lived as a woman named Veronique. Why wouldn't you just answer that question and say no? If it gave you so much grief that this rumor was out there, why not respond to that effectively in the 10-year period that you had the time to respond to it? Okay, Brigitte is not a victim. Far from that, I believe Brigitte is actually somebody who has victimized Emmanuel Macron. Emmanuel Macron is pathetic. He's absolutely pathetic for letting this go on for so long. You could

easily dispel these rumors. And like I said, we were asking for photos from a 30-year period of Brigitte's life. We were not asking for blood. We were asking for simple answer yes or no. could you show us some photos of you raising your alleged children? They failed to produce that and now are pretending that they're victims. But they're under no obligation. Candice. Right, they're not, but don't then complain and say you had to file a lawsuit. They contacted us, peers.

You're in a no obligation. We didn't reach out to them. They reached out to us first. Hang on. They say they made it crystal clear to you that all your claims were wrong, right? That your basic premise that she's a man is wrong. They said they told you that. before you went ahead anyway you've carried on even when they launched a lawsuit you've carried on

saying the same stuff right and it's a massive play on your part listen i admire your balls i mean it's probably the wrong term to use given the issue we're discussing but i do admire your balls right because you're going for it and you're doubling and trebling and quadrupling down but ultimately your entire reputation is now directly linked it seems to me to whether bridget macro is male or female. If she proves she's a woman, where does that leave you? If she was going to prove she was a woman, she would have it over the last 10 years. And like I said, they came to us first and we said we will not publish this series if you answer questions. Okay. So they were on the offense in that moment. I didn't go to them and go, I deserve a response to this. They had their lawyers, email us,

speaking about this question. And so I have been completely honest and transparent with my audience. This matters to me because I'm a mother. And there are too many people around them that have been charged with pedophilia, many who have admitted that they were pedophiles, not even just pedophiles, incestuous pedophiles, people that molested their children that are surrounding them. Even the lawyers that they're dealing with are lawyers that defend pedophile and incest, preferring it to as happy incest when children are molested by their fathers. That's their current lawyer who has attached himself to this case in France, Eric DuPont Moretti. Everywhere you look, you see a story regarding incest and pedophilia that surrounds this couple.

I have presented that to the public. And if you are going to pretend that they have not lied, Pierce, a couple of weeks ago, when Brigitte smacked Emmanuel Macron on camera on the plane, the L.A. Palace answered and said that it was Russian propaganda and that it never happened. They lie all the time. It's very easy to lie in France,

where they have laws against speech and laws against cyberbullying and where journalists are afraid. It's not so easy to lie in America. I'm glad they brought this to my turf because now the French people are watching and cheering, knowing that this couple has lied to them from the very beginning. They are due for an exposure. And no, I do not believe that she is going to be able to now,

or willing to suddenly prove that she is a woman when she could have done that for the last eight years. Okay, tell me about the phone call from Donald Trump in which you try to get you to drop all this. Yeah, certainly. I received a phone call, and to be clear, this was on the very same day that Emmanuel Macron visited the White House, ostensibly to discuss Ukraine and Russia.

I received a phone call at first from a third party saying that, and what I was told was that Emmanuel Macron, who was negotiating in good faith regarding an end to the Ukraine and Russia war, which would have required his signature on some EU stuff, was holding up stuff because he wanted Trump to speak to me, to get me to stop talking about Brigitte Macron. Again, very odd measure when we already said that we would stop speaking about Brigitte Macron.

If you had simply answered our questions, you could have stopped this. And then the next day, or maybe it was in then 48 hours, I received a phone call from Trump himself. He obviously was not following the series. He is not someone who I think watches a bunch of podcasting shows, but he said he was very confused when Emmanuel Macron took him to the side of a car and brought this up, asked him if he knew him, asked me to stop speaking about his wife, wanted him to get in touch with me to make that happen. Again, that's an extraordinary effort for a state leader to get on a plane and speak to another state leader to shut up a podcaster in America when all you have to dispel the rumors is to tell the truth and answer the questions. It's so easy.

It's so easy to do that. I would never let it get to a point where I had to sue a podcaster in France. Well, I told him in the short run while they were having those negotiations that I wouldn't say anything, which is why we didn't report on it for, I think it was. about four months or five months later. And that then afterwards, once they were done having those discussions, that I would reach out again and tell the person that I was going to speak about it publicly

on my platform, because obviously I believe in free speech. I mean, it's a fascinating situation that you've got a world leader coming after a podcaster. That, on its own, is fascinating. But it's because you have such a big following and because they believe, from my understanding, that unlike the French journalists

where they were getting a small amount of traction, but not very much, it's only when you embrace this wholeheartedly and began to do this as a big series on your very popular show and channel, at that point they realized this was going around the world and they had to do something about it. And they've launched this unprecedented act.

I just can't, I mean, look, again, I might be wrong, but I cannot imagine a scenario where the president and the first, Lady of France launch an action like this unless they are 100% certain that they are right, that she is a woman. Okay, then can you answer why? You're saying it's because I'm big. They've gone after small journalists, right?

They just lost in the upper courts against the initial journalist that brought this forward for defamation. If you lost this on your home court, why would you take this lawsuit overseas? It doesn't make any sense, right? There had to have been some evidence presented, which they only presented an expired ID, which is completely ridiculous. for an expired voting ID. So you're telling me that you're not going to go after.

You lose the journalist on your home court, but you take this now overseas because I'm a bigger journalist. And to be clear, peers, Xavier Pussard, they did launch a legal action against him on the same day they launched a legal action against me, okay? But they're not suing him for defamation. They are suing him for cyberbullying.

So I got all of my information sourced from Xavier Pussard's book. I did a presentation on Xavier Pussar's book, and yet you don't go after Xavier Pussar's book. Pussard for defamation and he lives in France. Why is that? The answer to that question is because Xavier Poussard has been on the offense against them. He won in the courts to have her Sakeh Choir, which is Sacred Heart, is where Brigitte McCrone allegedly went to school in high school. He won for them to release the, we would call it in America a yearbook, which would have had a photo of Brigitte McCrone in it. The school is refusing to give it to him. So the court would have to

at first acknowledge the actions that this brave journalist brought against Brigitte Macron to expose this story before they would acknowledge her actions against him. They are being very cunning in how they're dealing with this. They launched this lawsuit because they failed in their first affirmation efforts. They thought if they launched an even bigger lawsuit as a PR move, and to be clear, peers, this is not all that they've done. We have evidence that they hired a crisis PR team here in the United States before I launched my first episode of becoming Brigitte.

when they were in communication with us back in January, they used a UK firm, and they contacted that UK firm and had them go out to find a crisis PR team in America ahead of my series. Why would you do that? That's completely crazy. You're in contact with us.

You had the power to stop this series. If, as I believe, you are completely wrong and you end up losing this case, would you accept that everything you've been doing if she establishes to the world, is a woman, that everything you've been doing would constitute in that eventuality a very cruel, vindictive campaign of bullying against a woman challenging her very... I would have never done this. Like I said, I was not interested in being the crusader against this

because I went to them and I said, if you answer these questions, we will not run the series. I'm only interested in truth. I only went after the story because I was shocked by the Petro-Criminal network which surrounds them. It's shocking. Okay, there are real children being harmed right now in Paris and there are real citizens that are being gaslit about these circumstances. I don't know many people who can say, all of my homies are pedophiles, but it just keeps happening by accident. This is a very big story in France and the people in France are behind me for a reason, peers. Like I said, this would not have been a globally impactful series if I was just up there flipping my hair saying, well, it kind of looks like her wig is bad. We presented a lot of evidence. Xavier put

presented a lot of evidence, and I believe in my heart of hearts that she is not only a groomer and a creep for the relationship that she began with Emmanuel Macron when he was just a student and 14 years old in that play, but also that they are liars that are leading this country, France, down the drain, truly. I believe it's in my heart that Brigitte McCrone was born a man, was born a child, actually not a man, but born a male named Jean-Michel, Trugnough. And everything that they have done has only further led me to that conclusion because they are not behaving as though truth is on their side. You don't try to silence journalists. Well, last time we discussed this on Uncensored, I bet you $150,000 that you were wrong and

that she's a woman. On X, when we discussed this further, I doubled it. This is for charity, to $300,000. You haven't accepted that year. So right now, $300,000 to charity. I say she's a woman. Are you prepared to take that bet? I am 1,000% prepared to take that bet. I actually didn't see your tweet or I would have accepted it live. So we can totally accept that bet.

I believe Prasjit Mophrone is a male and that they will not be presenting any evidence to the contrary because they would have done it already. Okay, Candice, I appreciate you coming on unsensored. I think you're completely wrong. But we shall see. I think the great thing about this action is we're going to get to the bottom of this extraordinary story. Thank you very much indeed for coming back on. I'll be back to get my money, Pierce.

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Visit peaklife.com slash peers. That's peak, P-I-Q-E-Life.com slash peers. The President Trump's approval ratings are not in great shape, but U.S. Conservatives will take some comfort from the fact that Democrats have never been less popular. All major pollsters have the party at record lows.

They've no leader, and the public doesn't seem to like any of the people who would like to be. Democrats at this point are historically divided. It is a complete and utter mess. It is messier than a hoarder's basement. What are we talking about here? The national early poll leader, 25% plus. Normally that's where Democrats are. Biden was at 25% plus in 2020.

Hillary Clinton was in 08 and 16. Gore was in 0.0 and 04. At this particular point, there is no one, no one in the Democratic race for president who's polling at 25% plus. The water is quite warm. If you're a Democrat potentially thinking about running in 2028, jump right in because at this point, there is no front runner. Well, we're now a year on from the Brat summer

and nine months on from the presidential election. that the Democrat currently being talked about the most is Kamala Harris. She's announced she won't run to be governor of California, perhaps because she still has one eye on a lofty office, and she's back with a new book. I mean, there's a lot of personal stuff in the book. I mean, poor Dougie.

You turn the longer let off of Doug? What's going on? For example, my birthday is in October. The election's in November. You see where I'm going. And Dougie kind of dropped the ball up my big birthday. You didn't get you anything? Oh, you have to read the book.

Can't wait to read that one. Or Democrats are still deeply divided over which way they should turn. Do they move back to the center with the measured liberalism espoused by luminaries such as James Carville? Or do they plow on with the radical populism embodied by the likes of AOC, Mamdani? and a new wave of digital-savvy Democrats seeking to dethrone their failing forefathers. Well, let's ask them.

To debate all this, I'm joined by legendary Democrat strategist, James Carville, Democrat influencer Harry Sissom, the new wave Democrat running for Congress in Illinois, Cadaboo, and the former Republican congressman and presidential challenger Joe Walsh. Well, welcome to all of you, a very stellar panel to discuss the state of the Democrat Party. James Carville,

in all your life, have you ever known the Democrats to be so unpopular? And if not, why, why are they so unpopular? Well, they're very unpopular because they're unpopular among Democrats because they lost an election. That is why people belong to a political party. However, I'm forced to point out that since the election and every special has been held, Democrats have won. So people are voting for us.

I really don't care what the Gallup party favorability is as long as we win elections. And by the way, Pierce, we're going to win elections in Virginia, like big. When I say big, I mean, like really big, we're going to win in New Jersey. And we're not going to have a party leader until we have a presidential nominee. It just doesn't, it can't happen any other way. And boy, do we have some talented people thinking about running for president. I think that future is just fine. Thank you.

It was interesting because Carmelah Harris was unable to name a single person or didn't want to that she thought was part of this extraordinary exciting group of people that could lead the party. Are you prepared to name some names? I could name seven names off the top of my head, all right? But then you're on name seven, and there's three more I didn't name. I have never seen a political party at a point in my entire life in politics, which is like 50 years, has more talent than the current Democratic Party has. And that is a pretty much acknowledged fact among people who cover national politics

and pay attention to national politics closely. And I don't think... Well, give me a name. You know, I mean, Vice President Harris, Whitmer, Bashir, Shapiro, Moore, Woonock. I don't know if Harris is at the same talent level that these people are at. I'm talking about sheer, raw, naked, political communication skill.

I have never seen better than I see right now, waiting in the rings to run for president. And to not acknowledge that. James, James, James. All due respect. When you're in that same respect, just do it. That's why I like you. Just do it.

You don't need to respect. When the first name you... I get it. Well, let me do it without respect, then. The first name you gave me was Carmel Harris. Right? I watched her on Colbert, and I witnessed two of the reasons, actually, why the Democrats are in such disarray, and also why late-night television is in such disarray in America. I don't think Harris was the first name I gave you.

It was. I thought Whitmer was first name I gave you. No, you said Carvela first. She has, she, I want it. If she run, She's fine. She's one of any number of people. And I, you know, maybe she'll be better. She runs in 2028 than she was in 2024. But I would not consider her in terms of expert communicators in the top tier of current Democrats. No, but that's the point. She's the first name he gave me, and she's a complete and utter

dud. I don't know if she was the first name I gave or what ought I gave. The name, I mean, how stupid is that? She would not inspire me. I gave you seven names. I gave you seven names. Yeah, she wouldn't inspire me. She wouldn't inspire me to open a bag of chips. And she was a total disaster in the last election. That's why Trump won.

Look, Trump won because the Democratic Party, the country wanted to change. They didn't want Biden to run. Biden didn't get out until July 21st. And Harris refused to say, where she changed? You're exactly right. But I admit to 2024. I weigh it right at the foot of the Democratic Party. But I don't know what that doesn't have anything to do going forward,

the fact that we have all of this talent, and all you want to do is talk about Harris, which doesn't make any sense. Because she's the first. Look at the staggering people we have out there. I don't know who the first name. There wasn't mentioned seven names. It doesn't matter what order.

I said I could mention nine, but this is a stupid argument. If it's the first of the 10, 10th name I mentioned. It doesn't, I don't want to say what you're talking about, Pierce. Well, I'm just saying that if the first name you give me is a complete dud, it makes me think that maybe there isn't a great plethora, plethora of brilliantly intelligent candidates who are going to ignite America. I think there is, and I think you're fighting the truth. Okay, well, we'll see. Look, the proof as always will be in the proof as always will be in the pudding.

Let me, let me, let me, let me bring in, uh, Cadaboo here. Look, You're one of the new wave Democrats running the Congress in Illinois. What does that mean? How are you going to galvanize America away from what Trump does very successfully, which is messaging? And secondly, has a core of common sense. People may not like him. They may not like the rhetoric.

But when he starts talking about he wants people to pay lower taxes, he wants fewer foreign wars, he wants a controlled southern border, He wants a better immigration system. A lot of Americans, as we saw up the last election, nod. And when he says, you know what, and also we're going to have no more men in women's sport, most Americans go, yeah, that's common sense. So what are you going to do, which will tackle that, that Trump, away from the rhetoric, has a core of common sense that runs through what he says

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And even that those solutions are bad, as I think Trumps are, they're at least not being gaslit about their economic situations. And I was really interested to hear Mr. Carville's names that he mentioned, and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, who is packing stadiums in red states, by the way. Like, regardless of what you think about her, that should be something that Democrats would want to latch on to. that she didn't even pop up in those names is kind of ludicrous to me.

I think part of the reason we're in this mess is because of Democrats like James Carville that have been pushing an old playbook that is outdated, that are sticking to these ideas that don't resonate with people, trying to run things through five different pollsters before you put out a message

doesn't resonate with people, trying to move to the right when the center should be housing, groceries, and health care for everyone. And with money left over, that's what the center should be. And somehow we're saying we should move even further to the right of it, when our grandparents would think that's the center as well. And it's time for Democrats to recognize that the old playbook is thrown out the window.

We need people in power that understand the right, that also understand messaging, and they're not ashamed of their views. All right. Joe Walsh, look, there's obviously a lot of debate going on between Democrats. That's why I got everyone here, actually, to talk about this. It is a fascinating moment in time for the Democrat Party. But I'm not hearing yet what the brave new world is that is actually going to be a successful election play in a general election. I've got no doubt that, as with all opposition scenarios,

that the Democrats will win well in local, state, governors, and so on. Of course they will. Everybody does. But when it comes to a national election in 2028, I would be really concerned if I was a Democrat right now about where is this talisman or talism woman who is going to ignite this party? It won't be AOC.

It cannot be somebody who has her views or who has that voice, frankly. It can't be her. It definitely can't be Kamala Harris. It can't be somebody ancient like Joe Biden who can't string a sentence together. I think it should be somebody like a Bill Clinton, somebody who's a centrist, really,

with common sense views, liberal sensibilities, but in the right way. But he doesn't sound like a screaming social lunatic. Your thoughts? Well, I agree with a lot of that, Pierce, but I also agree with Kat on a lot. Look, as someone who, former Tea Party guy,

I became a Democrat eight to nine weeks ago because this is an unprecedented moment in American politics. My former party is a fascist party, but you're right, Pierce, they won. So how do Democrats beat that? I think Democrats need authentic people. They need candidates who are authentic. I could give a damn what their communication skills are.

Kat's right. I want a Democrat who can look in the camera, look at a bunch of people and say, this is who I am, this is what I believe. I don't give a damn if this pisses you off. And Pierce, I don't care whether that person comes from the progressive wing or where I am, the more moderate wing. Democrats need a populist.

They need a fighter. Trump, you know, is a pretend populist, but Democrats have been AWOL during this populist moment. They need a fighter, Pierce, wherever that comes from. Well, they do. But Harry Sisson, they also need. I think James Carville himself said last week, you've got to, as a party, you've got to park the trans stuff.

You can't keep telling Americans it's fine for biological men to compete. Cat, you can roll your eyes because I know the Democrats love to think in their quaint little way that nobody cares. Trust me, they care, right? I am the only woman on this panel. I am the only person here involved with recreational sports where I play with trans people, by the way. I'm the only woman on here that'll probably have a family in the next decade. I am the person that you are talking about that should be concerned about this. And I'm not because this is a manufacturing.

issue. It's a manufactured issue. This is the problem. This is why you won't win elections. No. That's just not true. That's why you won't win. When you deny science, when you deny science and biology, you will not win an election. I can absolutely take that to the bank for you. You are so obsessed with this and aren't listening to the woman. As long as you keep trying to tell. As long as you try and girls, can you name five WMBA players? I'm saying if you You hang around with your progressive mates, you hang around with your progressive mates, and you all boast about how many trans athletes you know

and how it doesn't have any impact on women's sport. And then we all watch the Paris Olympics, and we watch a biological male who had been banned from the world championships for testing positive for male chromosomes, beating up a young female Italian boxer. So badly, the boxer quit after 40 seconds. And that biological male wins gold. You are just spreading misinformation at this point.

There is a problem. There are plenty of athletes that have Michael Phelps is basically his entire body is made to swim. Like the fact that you're talking about common, the fact that you're talking about common sense solutions, all this stuff. And then every single time you want to talk about things, you bring up trans people. When they're just trying to live their lives is ridiculous. What we actually need to do to do with them living their lives. Material needs. That is what's happening right now.

We need to be using material needs are wrong. Let me respond. respond. Let me respond. I have nothing but respect for trans people. Always have said that publicly, loudly and proudly. I want trans people to have the same rights to fairness, equality, and safety that all of us enjoy. I've always said this. However, at the moment, what's been happening in the last few years is the trans rights lobby has been aggressively eroding women's rights to fairness, equality, I am a woman who likes women's sports. And if you want to run something in America,

you want to be an elected official, if you're going to run on a ticket that nobody cares, and it doesn't matter, I'm telling you, you will lose. And your party, if they have a leader that also believes this bullshit, is also going to lose. It is as simple as that. Let me go to Jamie on this.

Harry, where do you sit? I mean, are we at the stage where I can ask you what a woman is yet or not? Well, I just think this conversation, I agree with, I just think it's so meaningless. Like, I think if the Republican candidate in Katz district would run solely on trans issues, Kat would love it. She'd be so happy because she's going to talk about affordability and the issues that actually matter to people, not this, like, whole made up, you know, culture war issue and that it extends to the national scale.

It's not made up when you... It's not made up when you... This is, this is so disingenuous. Oh, my God, man. Pears, peers, listen, listen. in 2028, do you think that if J.D. Vance ran simply on trans issues and you had like a Gavin Newsom talking about affordability, do you think that people would actually vote for J.D. Vance in that election? Nobody's going to run on just trans issues. But if you think that Donald Trump didn't win,

well, hang on. Wait, wait, wait. Let me respond. That means you know. Let me give you my responsibility in common sense. You were talking about trans. Let me give you my considered answer, Harry, right? I think Trump won for three reasons. I think one, the economy. I think two. immigration, and I think three, the culture war stuff that you guys love to play down, but also love to fuel. So when there's a Sydney-Sweeney ad comes out, you all throw your toys out of the stroller and make it a huge story. But actually, people care about this stuff. They do not want trans athletes in women's sports. James Carville is right about this. I'll come to in a moment, but you're so wrong, you guys. And if you think this,

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Pierce, Pierce, I don't know a single Democrat on your Sydney-Sweeney thing who actually is angry at the ad. You know me. We've talked before. I love Joe Biden. I'm as Democrats as you get. I couldn't care. Well, then they're not represented with the Democratic Party.

Mott-Lum-Hill was literally spitting blood. Then, Pierce, listen to me when I say this, they are not representative. They are not representative of the Democratic Party. You talk to your average Democrat on the street. You ask them about the Sydney-Sweeney Gene Ad. They're on the way to work. They don't give a shit. They couldn't care less if she's wearing jeans in an ad.

This is why you guys are so wrong. Harry, Harry, let me try to help you. I'm saying the opposite of what you're arguing right now. I'm saying I don't care about the ad. You guys are so, Harry, Harry, you're wrong. Let me tell you why I think you're wrong. Or not respect. You can play the James Carville thing as saying,

I don't care about respect, Pierce. I like the respect. I think this. I think it's a number of things. If it's JD Vance in 2028, he'll run on economy and immigration, probably fewer, foreign laws, all the things that made Trump, made Trump popular, but he'll also run hard on the cultural war stuff

if you lot are still running on absolute nonsense. Pierce, let's cite our friend James Carville. It'll come down to it's the economy stupid. Donald Trump in 2020 tried to run on culture war issues. There were Republican senators in 2020 who tried to run on culture war issues in their states and they lost because the economy was failing. The economy was failing the average hardworking American.

So if J.D. Vance in 2028 wants to run on the economy and immigration, he'll lose because people are outraged by inflation going up, people being kidnapped off the streets by mask agents. And if you want to throw the culture war issues in there, you're three and a half years away from that election. I would wait and see, I'd wait and see how that plays out. James Carville, I hope you got a joke. Let me get a, hang on Joe. I'm just going to say. Yeah, Joe. No, I was just going to say quickly, I agree with Harry and Kat on the issue, but Pierce, I agree with you on the politics. Look, I used to be a culture war fighter on the right. Republicans throw out this stuff and Democrats never fight back. And it matters. And it did cost them. It all matters. The transgender

issue matters. And the great irony is most Americans are where Democrats are, where you are pierce on the issue. Transgender Americans should have full rights. Let them live their life in peace and we embrace them all. When it comes to transgender women in sports, man, the competition's got to be fair, period. That's where most Americans are. Democrats need to fight

that fight because most Americans are... You know where we have most of our data about transgender... By the way, the idea Democrats do not... And the military has shown... But there is not a physical benefit. Like, this is... U.S. military.

This is just data from the U. U.S. military of soldiers who have transitioned. It's nonsense. Of course men have. Okay, so let me take your argument to its logical extension. Why don't we make the Olympics gender neutral? One gender, anyone can enter any race? You up for that? I think there should be plenty of gender neutral sports, frankly. I mean, I love doing that in kickball leagues. I'm pretty good at it. Sorry, you're just saying there's no, you just said there's no physical advantage for men. So let's have gender neutral Olympics where you can be male or female and it's all in one, one, one, one, gender neutral sport, right?

Would you do that for the whole Olympics? Yes or no? Sure. I'm not in charge of the Olympics, but sure. You've just literally, you've just literally ensured that no women would win an Olympic gold medal again, with the possible

exception of equestrian and I think one form of shooting. Other than that, no women ever win an Olympic medal ever again. Thank you, Cat Abu. Brilliant. What a brilliant, brilliant election winning cat made message.

The Olympics are going to be gender neutral, says Cataboo. I'm not boating for you in a million light years. James Carville, let me come to you. If you said last week, you know what? If your district could hear you talking about gender neutral Olympics, they think you were insane. James Carvel, last week you said, well, look, let's go to old James as you ridiculed him,

but actually one of the smartest guys in American modern politics the last 40 years. James, you said last last week, the Democrats have to let this trans stuff go. So listening to two young Democrats here, making it clear they don't think it's a problem, and by the way, we should have gender neutral Olympics. What is your reaction?

My reaction is up to athletic governing bodies. I'm just not into the 400-meter dash at the girls' track meet in Minnesota. Okay, they set rules and whatever they are. I do, I think there ought to be men's sport, I think there ought to be women's sports. I love come to really love women's basketball. I think it's even a fast-paced game,

but I don't think we should keep men in women's basketball. But I really don't spend a lot of time worrying about this. This is not a very big issue in my life. And we had 10,000 sports governing agencies in the United States, and they can figure out the fairest way to compete. But I want to make a point. The people that are going to decide the direction of Democratic, party are going to be people that vote in the primaries in 2028.

And I think that they have a really good record when they're given a choice, which they were not given in 2024, of picking pretty strong candidates. So I am not at all that worried. And you're right, if somebody, if a AOC is very talented, she wants to run, she should run. I'm telling everybody, all of you should run. And then let's let the voters, not the commentators, not the consultants, not to college, Democratic voters are going to decide the direction their parties going to go in. And I'm very, very happy with that conclusion.

Let me tell you, I have more chance of becoming the next president of the United States than Alexandra Ocasio-Cortez, and I'm not even American. That's how low her chance are. That's the Democratic voters to decide. There are Republicans watching this. There are Republicans watching this going, great. So the Democrats are going to go. for a far left progressive loomball.

There are Republicans in Idaho that are going to go to the stadium to listen to AOSC. Can I just clear something? Can I just clear some? I said everybody's going to run and the Democrats are going to shoot. Now, I'll tell you, if you think the party's so bad, I will give you five points in the Virginia governor's race and bet you $1,000 right now. I'll bet you $1,000. And the Republicans are running on trans stuff.

They're running on that. Let's take the bet. $1,000, I'm laying on five points. You want it? Are you own? I've got a better bet. You're not on? No, no, I've got a better bet. Let's come on. A thousand. Hang on. Let me respond. Let me respond. A thousand of Virginia government is plus five. I will bet you that if they go for a progressive left candidate to run the party, then you will get flatlined in 2028. And I'll bet you 10,000 you get flatlined if it's progressive left.

Listen to me. Democratic voters are going to decide that the Democrats have never elected the most left-wing person running for president. So I'm not worried. But you're not going to bet me on Virginia. You're talking about the most unpopular, dead political party that exists

in Western political history, and I'm giving you five points. And you're not going to sit here and say, okay, James, you're on for a grand. No, because I think what happens in between general elections is, No, no. I'm not taking that bet, but I will bet you $10,000. A progressive left candidate can't win the election.

I'll tell you, I'll do £1,000 in lunch at Scots, okay? Because I'll be over that. But right now, I'm offering you. I'm offering you to bet. I'm giving you five points. All right, you know what? I'll take it. A thousand pounds at lunch at Scots.

Done. I'll take it. And I get five points. I'll take it. And a Republican... Plus five. Okay. We're on. We've got a bet. Okay. So, Joe, let me bring Joe back in. I've been watching what's happening with Mamdani in New York.

And it's very interesting to me because he's, you know, he's a pretty dyed-in-the-wall socialist with a track record of saying ridiculous things like defund the police and all the rest of it. And yet he's storming to apparent victory to be mayor of New York City. What does that say about where voters are right now? Look, it says a lot about where voters are in New York City. I mean, again, Pierce, I'm a Democrat only eight weeks. You could call me a conservative Democrat. My God, Mam Dani won the nomination in New York City.

Hell yes, the party needs to embrace him. Enthusiastically embrace him. Show this freaking country and the world that Democrats understand we're a big tent. You know, Mam Dani may not be able to win in Tennessee or, Kentucky, Joe Walsh couldn't win in New York City. This fear that Democrats have to embrace Mamdani is what's really going to piss their voters off. We should embrace him, just like we should embrace more moderate Democrats in other places as well. But here's the problem with that, I think, is that the trouble with Mamdani is, he's a good communicator, he looks the part, he sounds

the part, I can see a lot of things going for him. But when you actually get into his public statements on the record. Some of the stuff he said about the police, that alone to me makes him disqualifying as a serious. Well, not the others. I mean, it appears not disqualified. Well, I'll tell you why. I was in Democrat voters in New York City. I was in New York last week. I was in New York last week when the mass shooting happened. And, you know, the NYPD reacted was incredible speed and incredible courage to stop that being a hell of a lot worse. And there you've got the guys going to be the mayor of the city who's been saying terrible things about the NYPD, about defunding the police, about they're racist, they're homophobic, they're this, that and the other. Imagine if you're in

the NYPD right now and this guy's going to be your mayor. Kierce, he didn't say any of that last week. He's said things in the past and let's hope, and I believe he's learned from them because he's going to represent the whole city, including the police officers. He's 33 years old. he struck a chord. I have confidence that he's going to learn on some of these issues as well. Okay, well, we'll say

Canaboo, is Sidney a Nazi? Sorry. My last name is Abu Ghazale, by the way. I don't know. This has been a lot of discourse. Have I been saying your surname wrong? I'm sorry. Yeah, it's Abu Ghazale.

I do apologize. I've got it written down wrong here. My apologies. Yeah, I've seen a lot of discourse on this. I am really more focused on the campaign trail right now, but it seems like a lot of people are up in arms. But you think she's a Nazi for doing an advert for American Eagle in which she says that they say she's got great jeans.

I don't think it's a great look. I don't really know much about her political opinions, especially the statement that America is put out later with... Huh? Apparently she's a registered Republican in a this one. Yeah, she's a, she's a republic. I wasn't that surprised. I had heard things about that, but frankly, I just, um, this is another one of those, like, culture war issues that, um, I think that American Eagle, that statement

that they put out was really weird, especially the, uh, 1488 coincidence, uh, but I'm a lot more concerned with, um, things that are affecting people right now. And that's housing, groceries and health care being completely, what was the, what was the coincidence you're talking about, sorry? Uh, there was one part of it that apparently. had like 14 words and 88 characters, which may have been a coincidence. Maybe not, but it's not a super great look for American Eagle. What are you getting at?

What are you suggesting? 1488 is a notorious neo-Nazi dog whistle, but once again, could be coincidence. So they're all Nazis? I literally did not say that. I am just, you asked me a question, and I said I don't really care about this that much. I am more focused on actual things. Here's my problem again. until you stop calling absolutely everybody you don't agree with Nazis,

there is no way you'll be going to win elections. I literally did not do that. You were just putting words in my mouth. You literally did that. In fact, Joe Walsh was shaking his head because he knew what you were about to say, unless I'm mistaken, Joe. I had pointed out a coincidence that other people were talking about. I am promoting a ridiculous conspiracy theory that American Eagle and Sidney

are Nazis. It's ridiculous. It makes you sound completely ridiculous. I didn't say that. I just said that, like, it's a weird coincidence, and I think it's not a great look. But once again, I don't really care. I am, we have petitioning starting tomorrow.

We care enough to say it's not a great look, and they were, and they were, and it may be to do with Nazi. Yeah, because you asked me if Sidney Sweeney is a Nazi, like, five times in a row. And once again, I don't know. Because I imagine, like any sensible human being, your response would be, of course she's not.

Harry Sisson, is Sidney a Nazi? No. No, she's not. She did it. No, I'm not tapped into this topic. Harry, do you have any problem about people talking about their great genes? No, I don't, I don't care. Like, I just don't care.

Like, I don't think, I don't think Sidney Sweeney's a Nazi. I respectfully disagree with Kat on the 1488 thing. You know, I'm not, I'm not one for things like that. I just think this whole thing is stupid. I just don't care. It's so stupid. And once again, this is not to say that. What I love is I didn't know anything about the 1488 thing until she said that.

And she said it because she was people watching this to think maybe they're all a bunch of Nazis. And that's the problem for the Democrat Party is you see everything through the prism of if you don't agree with somebody, they must be Nazis or white supremacists. Pierce, I don't think you're a white supremacist or a Nazi. Thank you. You and I disagree. Well, no, I mean, I'm just saying that as like, I don't, I don't think that anybody up here that's a Democrat thing. that everybody we disagree with is a Nazi. You and I disagree on plenty of issues,

and we have respectful conversations, and they're always very insightful. And that's the case for many people I disagree with. I think you have to stop buying into these small, loud minority groups in the Republican, or excuse me, the Democratic Party, who happened to be the loudest, and they say, oh, this person's a Nazi, this person's a Nazi. Your average Democrat is not thinking that your average Republicans are Nazi.

We can respectfully disagree. Yeah, you know, Pierce, by the way, Pierce, just to back up what Harry said, And I used to do some of this. The right is great at this. Pierce, you're right that Democrats often step in the culture war stuff and they don't defend it and they don't fight. But this Sydney-Sweeney thing, really, there might have been a few folks on the left who got bent out of shape about it. But this was not a defund the police moment.

This was the right jumped all over this. And they were actually the ones really kind of pushing that the left's making. a big deal out of a gorgeous young woman in a pair of jeans? To distract from the Epstein files, might add. Well, maybe. But if it did, it was successful. James Carville, how are Democrats actually going to win the next election? Give me a blueprint for success.

Well, of course we got, first of all, remember the Bud-like controversy. Boy, that cost everybody a lot of votes, didn't it? The Democrats are going to win the next election very simply. at this point, this is the most unpopular administration we've had in maybe American history since polling. We have not lost a special since the election. You're going to lose a thousand pounds, and you're going to lose a 200-pound lunch at Scott. That's almost guaranteed. And as opposed to force-feeding Democrats, a political nominee, Democrats are going to actually pick their own,

and we're going to have a really good 2028. We're going to win the House back in 2026. There is a reasonable chance, and when I say reasonable, I mean something over 35 percent, that we win the Senate. So I am not at all in any kind of a doom and gloom scenario, and I think that the party is healthy. I think there are a lot of different factions. I think they're all going to present a candidate.

Maybe some will have multiple candidates. And I think Democratic voters are going to choose wisely in 2028. That's what I really believe. Okay, Joe. Look, I think, Pierce, a lot of this is Trump. Look, in 2026, certainly the issues are going to be the cruelty of grabbing brown and black immigrants in Home Depot parking lots. That's not what America voted for. That cruelty is going to hurt Trump.

And we haven't even touched upon the economy. I mean, Trump's whack-a-doodle tariff bullshit is going, it's beginning. to impact people's lives. So there's a great opening here, Pierce, for Democrats. Pierce, you're right. Democrats need to confidently jump into it and go after it. Yeah, I think there are lots of ways the Democrats could be smart about the way they go after Trump.

You know, for example, on immigration, when I was a Democrat running for office, I'd be saying, look, I think the president has done a great job on the southern border. Let's just give him credit. I actually think also that most Americans are very comfortable with deporting undocumented people in America who commit crimes. Okay, we can all agree on that.

But what they're not comfortable about, and the polling supports this, is grabbing people in Home Depot who've lived here 10 years, who've got children here, who have jobs, who pay taxes, who contribute to economy. You know, so they're quite straightforward battle lines you can do here. Right. But, you know, I also think I wouldn't underestimate Trump

in terms of the next three and a half years. The tariff war, it could work. I had a very smart economist in the financial times on saying, you know, the jury's out. It could work. The stock market is higher now than it was before the so-called Liberation Day. So no one's quite sure how this all plays out. And on the foreign stage, I find it quite refreshing that we have an American president who is against war and wants to bring peace everywhere.

I hope it's successful. It's refreshing to hear it. So again, if I was a Democrat, I'd say, I agree with President Trump. We want to bring an end to the war in Gaza, an end to the war in Ukraine, and an end to American troops fighting in foreign wars. I think that would be a very winning thing to do, whilst also picking your fights and criticizing him, in all the different ways that are so easy to do.

Kat, let me give you one last chance to not sound like a lunatic. How do you think the Democrats can win in 2028? Action, not just where it's, I think we need to be meeting people's material needs. something I do with my campaign. We use our campaign resources to reach voters and help them right now. The amount of money that is going in to make a liberal Joe Rogan in a lab that could fund so many clinics. It could stock so many food banks. We need to be using our resources to fill the gaps that Trump is creating right now, not only because people need it, but to show that it's not, people lost faith in politics and understandably. It feels like there are so many promises. None of them

are kept and there is so much that we can do in this moment currently like right now i can't overstate that enough that we're just not and paying for consultants that haven't won elections and decades putting all of our money into ads that are not being used in the most effective way we could be doing that to feed people and clothe people and make sure that they have homes you know the most effective political out of modern times according to the new york times in terms of the impact it had on voters was the Carmelah Harris is for they, them, Donald Trump is for you.

So this issue that you don't think anybody cares about, the New York Times, the liberal Bible, determined it was unbelievably affected. The New York Times, the liberal Bible. And I would also say, well, I would also say in relation to Joe Rogan, rather than trying to find a liberal Joe Rogan, why don't you just do a bit of history

and realize he was a liberal? This guy was a Bernie Sanders fan. the party alienated Joe Rogan and pushed him towards Trump because the woke left was so insane they did the same with Bill Maher nearly he didn't go as far as Joe Rogan but he certainly became very critical of a Democrat

and the same with me right so you've got people who were naturally liberals who just have nothing in common with the woke left ideology because he's so insane that's why I keep saying come back to the middle, sound normal again you know play out

common sense for the American people. My middle, though, is that everyone has rights. Well, hang on. Everyone can afford housing, groceries and health care with money left over. I know it all sounds great. Give them all free housing, groceries and stuff. I know, you've got to pay for it. Unfortunately, that's called socialism, which never works. But you could get Joe Rogan back if you're smart. Harry, last word to you, how are the Democrats going to win in 2020? I think it comes down to two things, authenticity and affordability. I really appreciate taking lessons from our enemies. Donald Trump in 2024, his campaign was affordability.

He was talking about inflation. He was talking about grocery prices. He was talking about things like that. So we in 2028 have to be laser focused on that. I don't think we should dive so much into Trump the man. I think we should talk about the repercussions of his policy. I think Joe and James were articulating the tariffs and how they're having an impact on people,

really dive into that stuff, hit him from that front. Don't just say Donald Trump sucks because, you know, we as Democrats agree. And then authenticity, have someone who actually cares, actually believes in what they're saying. and has been fighting back against what they perceived to be Republican attacks in whatever office they happened to hold at that time. Yeah, and actually maybe reserve calling people Nazis

for when they're actual Nazis. That would be my little offering as well. I'll hold up on that one. Thank you all to my panel. It's actually a really interesting debate for the life and soul and heart of the Democrats. I think America needs a good opposition, needs a strong Democratic party. I don't like seeing the Democrats in such total disarray. but sometimes you've got to shake it all up

to shake it all out and find out who the next hero is going to be. It's going to be a fascinating thing to watch. I appreciate you all coming on. Thank you very much. Pierce Morgan Unsensit is proudly independent. The only boss around here is me. If you enjoy our show, we'll ask for only one simple thing. Hit subscribe on YouTube and follow Pierce Morgan Unsensit

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