Piers Morgan Uncensored - Biden-Netanyahu Tensions: Mosab Hassan Yousef & Rahma Zein

Episode Date: April 29, 2024

Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas says the US is the only country in the world that can stop Israel from attacking Rafah. And President Biden has told Israel to go no further. But can he really do anything to stop it? And should there be consequences if Israel presses on with an invasion its most important ally does not support? Piers debates with Egyptian Podcaster, Rahma Zein & by son of Hamas' founder and former Palestinian militant, Mosab Hassan Yousef YouTube: @PiersMorganUncensored X: @PiersUncensored TikTok: @piersmorganuncensored Insta: @piersmorganuncensored Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Last week, we shone a light on the absurdity of the anti-war protest now sweeping the United States. It's fair to say that my interview with the self-star performance artist, known as Crackhead Barney, caused a bit of a stir. Many people questioned why I had it on a tool. Well, did I really expect to get any sense out of a diaper-wearing demonstrator who become infamous by harassing Alec Baldwin in a coffee shop? The answer is no, probably not. But that was kind of the point. The protest movement is being overrun by ignorant virtue signals,

who are shifting the focus from where it needs to be, a brutal war on humanitarian emergency in Gaza. Too many protesters on both sides and make a miss all about them. We've lost sight of some home truths. Let's be pretty clear. It's entirely possible to be anti-Israel in terms of its government, but not anti-Semitic.

It should be entirely possible to have serious moral arguments against the way Israel's prosecuting this war, but not cool for the total eradication of the Israeli state. You can be anti-war without chanting from the river to the sea and defending a murderous death cult. You can debate the issues without making yourself a central character. This week, the focus should be on Rafa,

a southern Ghazan city where more than a million people who sought refuge from the Israeli assault on the rest of the strip. Israel is poised to invade it. Its critics believe civilians will be sitting ducks with nowhere else to go. Mashed casualties will be inevitable. Well, Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas says the US is the only country in the world that can stop Israel from attacking Rafa.

and President Biden has told Israel to go no further. But can he really stop them? And should there be consequences if Israel does ignore the US and presses on with an invasion, despite his most important ally, not offering support? Well, to debate this, I'm joined by the Egyptian podcaster Ramazane and by the son of Hamas's founder and former Palestinian militant, Mossab Hassan Yussev.

Welcome to both of you, both returning to uncensored. Let me ask you, first of all, if I may, Ramah Zain, since we last spoke several months ago about all this, this war has continued to rage and tens of thousands of people have died in Gaza. And it's quite likely if there is a full-scale invasion of Rafa that tens of thousands of more civilians may die in the process of Israel, as they put it, getting rid of Hamas in its entirety. What is your view of where this war now is?

It's sad to see that a few months after we're regurgitating and having to repeat the same things that we've warned about since day one, that things are getting out of hand that at one point do you start calling someone who keeps inciting these war crimes a criminal. So not having held them accountable from day one has led to the audacity and the confidence that we are witnessing in the crimes. And just as you had stated now that there might be further violence onto Rafah, you don't know if the U.S. is even able to stop them. And we mention Gaza, but we don't even mention the West Bank. We don't mention what's happening in other places. And again, this allowing them to continue with their blatant war crimes

that, by the way, their soldiers are filming and sending them to one another on telegram channels, other social media channels just goes to show to what extent they are confident to continue as such. And it's scary. We've seen news that probably the ICC is going to be calling Netanyahu in as a criminal for trial, and the U.S. is aiming to stop that. At one point, you have to take a stand, that enough is enough. It is sad that we are repeating what we've started, what we had been saying from day one.

Okay, we bring in Mossab Hassan Youssev for your response to that. I should point out that the ICC is not just threatening, apparently, to bring in Israeli leaders, but also Hamas leaders. Mossab and You said, I think, in the times of Israel last week, we need to go into Raffa now, not tomorrow. What are we waiting for? We finish Rafa, we finish Hamas. This will remove them from power, which will be the first step towards peace. Of course, the contrary view to this is that if Israel does. goes go hard into Rafat to try and eliminate Hamas completely and kills potentially tens of thousands

more civilians, that the global support for Israel will completely evaporate. And many people will view what is happening there as a war crime. What do you say to that? Well, first of all, I don't think Israel should compromise its security because of global pressure, because this global pressure sooner or later is going to go away. Now, people are traumatized by the tragedy of Gaza, and many people are making irrational decisions. In my opinion, if we don't end Hamas and remove them from power, like at least to remove them from power, we are going to have many other wars.

This is not Hamas's first attempt to take hostages and to take civilians as human shields. They've done this many times already. And I don't think that we need to give Hamas one more opportunity to destabilize the region and create a major war like this. But is there not a danger, Mossab, that by doing this the way Israel is doing it, by flattening most of Gaza in the process, by killing so many civilians and killing women and so many children

because of the age demographic of Gaza with half the people there being children, is there not a danger that by trying to do what you've just said in trying to get rid of a mass, which many people, I'm sure in Israel, would love to do, and I understand completely why they have a desire for that to happen, that by doing it you actually end up achieving the opposite of making Israel more secure, that you create a whole new generation of people radicalized by losing their children, their mothers, their wives and so on,

and they become even more determined to exact revenge. Yes, well, Israel is fighting for its very existence, and I am also fighting for my very existence. When there are people out there who want you to cease to exist, this is when they push you to the corner and you have no other choice but to fight. I'm in the same position, how it feels like when you have hundreds of millions of people who sentenced you to death because of false narratives. And this is why we have this trouble in the United States and a global chaos. Because people are in denial of the truth that Israel is not targeting civilians on a purpose. They are not killing in Gaza for sport. This is what Hamas did on October 7.

It was an actual genocide that the world doesn't want to admit. Now, even though the ICJ judges, they say it was not a genocide. happening in Gaza is not a genocide. This is what the judge say. But then we have all the wannabes and the social media warriors and the low-grade journalists still in public that what's happening in Gaza is a genocide. And we simply say it's collateral damage. Two different things. Okay. Ramazane, here's my question for you. Can I say something? Let me just ask you first of all, what should Israel have done after October the 7th, if not go after Hamas, the people who perpetrated it.

I just need to respond. Mr. Hassan, I truly do apologize that your type of relationship with your father has led you to this quest to condone the annihilation of your own people. I truly am sorry for that. But just as you said, it is not about you. Unfortunately, what we're seeing today and how we're seeing it, it is bigger. it is older than Hamas. When you look at the Palestinians, predominantly, for example, yesterday there was one protest with predominantly Christian Palestinians, it is much more than what we are

seeing today, the right of return, the fact that, you know, it was actually quite interesting. You have some Zionists here telling the pro-Palestinian protesters go back home, and their response is we want to. So come join our protests so that we can have the right to return and the siege. Whatever you do, and you just said, you know, you have at one point you get so oppressed, you have to fight back, you just said that. So what ends up happening? And you have to understand that as everyone and Pierce on your show, so many people have said the same thing.

You are going to keep having more resistance as long as you don't do something about it. and you keep speaking about the hostages. What about those that are being abducted from the West Bank? What about those that are in prison? What about the children that are in prison? At some point, you have to stand up and say that this cycle has to end, and how does it end by changing your tactic, by putting those that are the perpetrators accountable?

And you, sir, are stating that it is not a genocide. It is even the intent for genocide would label it as a genocide, which we have seen from... occupation leaders calling them subhuman, Ben Gavir asking for a nuclear bomb to be dropped at them. And I wish to reiterate. I understand that you have had your personal issues, but like you said, it's not about you.

It's a collective movement to end the cycle of violence. Okay, let me give... And you need to realize that. Okay, let me give... Massab the chance to respond. I mean, the suggestion is that you are driven, And by personal enmity, because of your family situation, with your father being one of the founders of Hamas,

and you since renounced that side of your life and that part of your family, what do you say to that charge that somehow you're driven by that more than anything else? Well, it is not only personal. It's fundamental. What I did during the second Palestinian Intifada, I risk my life on a regular basis to save human life. from Hamas brutal suicide bomb and attacks because Hamas terrorism did not start on October 7th. We're talking about waves or suicide bomb and attacks that targeted civilians indiscriminately

where Jewish, Christian, Arabs, Muslims were killed during Hamas attacks. So our job was to stop Hamas from blowing up things. Buses, markets, beaches, beach houses, They targeted everywhere. Hamas strategy of using civilians or targeting civilians is not a new thing. Now, for me to be sentenced to death for saving a human life because there is a belief system that says so, well, I totally reject that.

And they want me to cease to exist. This is not a relationship between father and son and by the way I don't need your pity my relationship with my father was an excellent relationship I loved my father and he loved me I'm sure he still does love me but this is where we draw the line when the higher interest of humanity is at risk when people kill hundreds and thousands of civilians by the name of religion and by the name of ideology. Somebody has to stand up. I am a son of that conflict and I know exactly what's going on there, not only from the Palestinian point of view, but also from the Israeli point of view.

Then you invite me to come join a revolution. What revolution you are talking about? You are just creating chaos. It's the revolution only for the sake of revolution. At some point, some 30 years ago, I believe, just like you. Today I know a different truth and I don't advocate on behalf of a revolution that does not have sight, that does not have any moral compass, that is a revolution only for the sake of revolution. So before you tell me about your revolution and about your protest, tell me about your objectives. What's your goal? What's your agenda? What's your agenda? Who is your leadership?

the American parents have the right to be concerned when they see masked men on campuses. We don't know who the hell they are. They could be activists and they could be the devil. So parents have the right to say we don't want mask men with foreign agendas on our campuses because you don't have a leadership and tomorrow if the shit hit the fan

who is going to be held accountable for this situation? Who do we go after? Why your protest is not registered according to American laws? You are just creating chaos, borrowing some victim narrative from the Middle East, and trying to Americanize it, trying to globalize it. And what we say, as a person who lived the 1987 Intifada, we don't want intifada in America, we don't want intifada in the West, and we most certainly don't want a global intifada.

Okay, Rama, before you speak in response to that, hang on Rama. I want to just, because last week you spoke at the University of Southern California at one of the protests, which was referenced by Mossab there. I want to play a clip from what you were saying there. Just take a listen. We are patient. We are patients. We are resilient. We are.

That was you addressing a crowd. there. I mean, nothing incendiary in what you were saying there, but we have seen many of these university protests, people openly talking about intifada, openly talking, chanting from the river to the sea, others brazenly supporting Hamas. Can you understand why Jewish students at these campuses feel so threatened by this? Really? Because when I was there, they were predominantly Jewish students who were protesting. They were predominantly Jewish students who were protesting. They were predominantly Jewish students that were protesting. Even in the UCLA one, I don't know if I'm able to say his name,

but one very prominent Jewish scholar was side by side with me in the protest in order to, because at the end of the day, we felt bad for these students because they're the ones facing police brutality, as Mr. Hassan said, they're the ones facing infiltrators who are attempting to discredit them. It was bizarre to see one student pose as a pro-Palestinian protester and then right inciting chance on the ground. And quickly, the pro-Palestinian students rushed to scrub it off. At the end of the day, though Mr. Hassan wants to make it into this political endeavor, again,

this is older and this is bigger than Hamas, and it is much bigger than you. What is happening now is these people, these students are simply stating the slaughter of children is wrong. The siege is wrong. Abducting people for liking posts in other parts of Palestine is wrong. The harassment of women continuously is wrong. And the fact that we're having to even debate this is the most bizarre thing of the 21st century because you're having this. because you'd hear about Vietnam or you'd hear about Iraq,

but it wasn't so recorded as much as this genocide. Let me ask you this. Let me ask you this, Rama. Let me ask you this, because I asked you a question earlier, which you haven't replied to yet, because you wanted to say something else at the time. So I'll ask you to you again. How should Israel have responded to this terror attack on October the 7th?

1,200 people were massacred, and the people who perpetrated this, the Hamas terrorists, they were brazenly broadcasting a lot of their, despicable acts of terror to the world. Proud of it. How should Israel, when presented with an existential threat like that, and when the Hamas spokesman responds a few days later by saying, we're going to do this again and again and again if we can,

how should Israel have responded? But Hamas leadership has also tried again and again and again to call for a truce and bring back the hostages, which has been denied from Netanyahu. That's also something. Well, hang on, on that, they shouldn't. I don't think Hamash

should be given any credit for keeping hostages. They kidnapped Holocaust survivors. They kidnapped babies. They shouldn't have been kidnapping anybody. So they should be giving back the hostages anyway. But my point to you,

which again, you haven't answered yet, I'm curious what your answer is. How should Israel have responded to such a grotesque terror attack? Both of you stop cutting me off. I will continue. Well, just answer the question. I won't cut you off.

I would very much like to No, I will answer the question the way I see fit, the way I talk. You are not going to school me as to how to respond, sir. Now, to my point, 7th of October did not happen in a vacuum. Another bigger problem is that you've had lies being regurgitated by officials from the 7th of October. I urge everyone to check www.com, which gives the truth and the truth. proper research as to what's unfolded on the 7th of October. We don't need to read anything.

Hang on, sorry. I'm sorry, look, you can't revisit. You do need to read. You keep cutting me off. This is the most bizarre conversation ever. I'm not cutting you off, Rahma. I'm challenging you. As I will, by the way, if my stuff is something. No, you can challenge me once I am done.

As I just said, Hamas broadcast what they were doing to the world. You don't need any report when you have people literally showing you on social media what you're doing. I'm boasting about it. It is very, you know something that I've realized through these debates is that it doesn't end up being a debate. It ends up being that I'm trying to convince you that Palestinian life is worth it. But I agree.

Is as important. You don't have to convince me at all? It is quite scary. I completely agree. That that is, I don't. Why are you trying to convince me the Palestinian lives matter? I'm not here. I don't even have a response to this.

This is a very low conversation, sir. You said you're trying to convince me that Palestinian lives are worth it. I said, of course, they're worth it. I'm not trying to convince you what... But you're not acting like it is. If you saw that, you wouldn't be bringing me back to the 7th of October. But that's what started this whole war. The 40,000 Palestinians who've been killed.

But October the 7th started this whole war. Really? Yes. It did. Again, this is, thank you for pointing out the exact issue that we have here. When you bring it to the point of that this started from the 7th of October, that is the problem. This war started October 7th. There was a sea spy before that.

No, sir. No, sir. Well, there was. No, sir. I am very sorry to say that and that Palestinians living the way they were as second-class citizens on their land, even, and not just in West Bank or Gaza. It's a different question, to which I would say I agree with you. That is definitively the point. Rahma, I agree with you. Sir, you oppressor people, then let me finish.

If you agree with me, what are you agreeing? I want you to answer my original question about how should Israel have responded to that terror attack? It's a straightforward question. What should they have done? Your question, by ending the siege, by ending apartheid, by ending apartheid, by realizing that this is not a sustainable solution to keep oppressing the people. I'll tell you something interesting. There is blatant attacks.

I blatantly kill you. But there is something that we don't realize that hurts sometimes even more, the intangible, the disrespect, the checkpoints. One day at one of these checkpoints and the amount of disrespect these people have to go through, the fact that at one point in the West Bank, A settler can just walk into your home, waltz into your home, destroy your home, take it, and be backed by a soldier. The utter disrespect of having so much injustice, there was this one Palestinian who said, our heart breaks every day over a hundred times.

What on earth? How is this sustainable? This is the longest siege on any place in history. Okay. Let me ask. Of course you're going to have a 7th of October. Of course you're going to have resistance. Actually, nothing, no, okay, but here's my problem. Okay, I'm going to go to Moss Avenue, but here's my point about that. I would say that I agree with you.

A lot of the settlements, particularly the expanded settlements in the last few months we've seen, are completely outrageous and indefensible and should not be happening. I completely agree with you. But when you say that, of course, October 7 is going to happen, no, absolutely not. There was nothing to justify a terror attack on that scale. But let me go to Mossaby, you've been waiting. patiently hit, hang on, you got a Mossam. Let me ask you about that issue of the settlements.

What is your view about expanding settlements in the way that Israel's been doing? Because it seems to me that they are crossing a line when they do that, which is completely indefensible. Well, speaking of settlements or what so-called settlements, those are cities of hundreds of thousands of people. This was the result of the 1967 war when the Arab countries, wanted to annihilate the state of Israel. Arabs had their opportunity back in 1948 to declare their independence.

They had equal opportunity like the Jewish people. The Jewish people fought the British colonialism and they shed blood and eventually they earned their independence. But in 1948, instead of the Arabs declaring their independence, They declared war against the Jewish people. There was no such Palestine at that time. There were just Arabs. And in the British era of colonialism, Jews, Arabs, Jews, Arabs, Jews, Christians,

everybody in that area was called the Palestinian. The Palestinian is a colonial entity. It was not a country, and it was not a nationality. It was just a 25-year period. So now, when we convinced ourselves that we were Palestinians because of Yasser Arafat wanted us to be Palestinians, the chaos had begun. And now, Palestinian is nothing but the victim narrative, that we don't want to take responsibility for the choices.

that we have made 70 years of conflict. And how many opportunities the Palestinians or what's so-called Palestinians? It's not a real thing. There are Arab children. They have the birthright to be there. And Israel has two million of those. So the allegation of apartheid doesn't make sense.

It's just a broken record by all those who have been trying to delegitimize Israel. It has nothing to do. in reality. Then the victim narrative goes on. The 1967 borders, this was area which is the West Bank. It was under the control of Jordan. And the Gaza was under the control of Egypt. They were Egypt and Jordanian territories. It was not a Palestine. Today Israel has peace with Egypt and with Jordan. So when the Arabs launched a war, war and they lost the war in 1967. Israel captured some territory. This is the consequences

of war. And the Arabs don't want to accept the consequences of defeat. Instead of saying we were defeated and Israel won, now they played the victim card. They have been playing the victim card for 70 years. And instead of accepting what is on the table to coexist with Israel. Basically, Israel was willing to withdraw from the West Bank and Gaza. That offer was on the table in 2000. And Yasser Arafat rejected that because the revolution has no purpose. The revolution is only for the sake of revolution. A bunch of con artists who only want to gain money and power. This is their game. And they have been using Arab children, Arab and Jewish children.

Please, please, please let me, please let me finish. Please, please don't interrupt me, please. I did not interrupt you. So now the situation got out of control. The false narrative of a victim became global. It's definitely a bestseller narrative, but it's not a true story. The very basis of it, the very foundation of whatsoever. called Palestine is not real, because in reality there is no such thing. Now to build all this

false accusations of apartheid, of genocide, of ethnic cleansing, only the Jewish people in the Middle East suffered ethnic cleansing and displacement. Only the Jewish people. The Arabs did not suffer the same consequences of the 1967 war, because Israel did not force them to leave the territory after the war, while Egypt, Egypt, your country, gave the Jewish people a 24-hour notice to depart Egypt. But the Jewish people did not do the same towards the Arabs, and this is how we have 2 million Arabs in Israel.

So all the accusations, they're just baseless, and this is how they have been spreading lies to delegitimize Israel. without telling us even what Palestine is, what does it stand for? Is it a nation? What do they want to achieve this revolution and this global chaos? What's their ultimate goal? I would like to know.

And most importantly, who is their leadership? Is it the Palestinian Authority? Is it Hamas? Is it the Islamic Jihad? Is it this new generation of pro-Palestine? That they are irrelevant to the suffering of the Arab and Jewish children of the region. Let me go to Rama for your response. I mean, what is the answer to that question?

Who is in charge of the Palestinians? Who should be in charge going forward? Do you see any role for Hamas at the end of this war? It's not up to me. As Mr. Hassan clearly stated, I am Egyptian. This movement is for the people of Palestine. And it is very dangerous what you said, Mr. Hassan, because this maybe is what even started this whole thing

when you had a group of immigrants coming in and stating, this is a people without a land for a land without a people. There was always a people. They were the people of Palestine. And especially when we talk about history, you have to also note what was happening in the rest of the world, that this was a point where most countries were colonized and there was this whole movement to decolonized

and there was nationalism. You can't just give this brief history lesson. without talking about it in length. And if you want to do so, we can by all means do so. But I don't think we have the time. And so the most important thing to note here, just as I clearly stated, when we were at the protest yesterday,

it was predominantly Palestinian Christians because you have IDF soldiers having this, the one church that is left in Gaza is under siege, where a mother, went out because she needed the bathroom. They shot her, and then they shot her daughter who came to help her. This is what you are dealing with.

Sir, what peace are you talking about for a person to be able to look at a child that is starving, that is running towards aid and shooting them? If you're not going to stand up now, when you see such war crimes happening daily on your phones and not say that something is very wrong right here, what are you expecting the world to look like after this? What are you expecting with the polarization, with the hatred that is then going to ensue? People are so hurt.

The videos that we are having to watch daily now of families trapped under rubble. In what world is it normal for a mother to go get aid and come back to find that her house has been flattened, that her family has been slaughtered? These are thousands. How is it there? in mere five months we're talking about a 40,000 casualty.

These are not numbers. These are people with stories. What are you? How are you justifying what you are justifying when a son finds out that his father has been killed so easily? What do you have to say to this person? What do you have to say to this child in the West Bank? Let me ask you, Monash, I must have your response to that.

Look, very important to understand the origin. of suffering and the cycle of violence is a very long vicious cycle of violence and I think the root cause of this is the false narrative and the victim narrative instead of taking responsibility we blame everybody the suffering of the Gazans do you think you are the only ones who see the suffering of the Gazans you are not the only one and there was But in war, people suffer. Please, sir. I am from the West Bank.

This is my birthplace, and I know what's going on there. And I know all the artists who have been hijacking generation after generation, they don't care for the children. They don't care for humanity. Their game is for power and money. This is what they do. So now the situation in Gaza, we call it a human shield situation. a society that has been hijacked by Islamists who don't value life,

their purpose in the other life, not in this life. Hence, they want to destroy Israel, and they want to destroy all other civilizations. And this is why we don't accept this. Then it doesn't matter what happened before October 7. October 7 cannot be justified as resistance. What happened was barbaric. What happened was savagery.

What happened was beyond any imagination. This is what ethnic cleansing and genocide really means when you kill. Can I ask you one question? Can I just, I'm so sorry. Because of their religion, because of their religion and ethnic background. What's happening in Gaza not because of the ethnic and religious background of Gazans. What's happening now in Gaza because if they're government, authority choose to make a stupid stunt and wiping out 20 peaceful Jewish communities that

they had nothing to do, including kidnapping babies and elders and women and what is this? We are in the 21st century and we have to stop these savages before they become an empire. It's our responsibility to fight and the foot soldiers in Gaza. Let me tell you something. soldiers, they have families. They are humans. They are my friends. They are sacred warriors who are fighting on behalf of civilization to stop savages from taking over. Your sacred warriors? So don't tell me about the suffering. The suffering of Gazans is the outcome of Hamas taking human shields. This is the outcome. This is Hamas crime.

What about the suffering of Palestinians in the West Bank and other areas? crime against humanity. Okay. Israel is fighting in Gaza. Hang on, Mossack. I'm so sorry. Can I just say one thing? Listen, listen.

Let me just say something. This is very important. Israel is following war protocol in Gaza. Hamas broke every protocol, moral, universal protocol in this war. Well, it may be, of course, that it turns out Israel has been committing some war crimes in Gaza. We will see. But let me ask you.

Rama, you wanted to ask a question directly of Mossad? What was that? Yes. I think I forgot. But I want to just say one thing regarding what you said, sir, about the foot soldiers. Your Honourable Foot soldiers have been filming themselves, boasting their war crimes in dinosaur suits, I believe, as well as donning Palestinian female lingerie of dead and displaced Palestinian women. I would assume that would enrage you as a Palestinian. They've also been recording their war crimes that have been used then, that have been taken and used in criminal courts.

And if anything, have just showcased the audacity and the confidence that they have when they conduct their war crimes. So what is your question? stated you were I honestly forgot the the rant put me off so okay well let me let me let me end by oh yes I do I remember

it I'm sorry I remembered I remember sir you say that you you use very big terms how would you then describe the slaughter of 40,000 people and away from Gaza I want you to explain to me

how is it that you find it normal and what you expect of a child that is taken and kidnapped from his home, from his family, from the West Bank. Is it normal that you have children being charged under military law? Is this something you believe is sustainable? Okay. Let me give the final answer to Mossad. Well, are you talking about baby Kfir whose first birthday was in Hamas captivity? Is this the child? You are talking about? because Israel does not kidnap children. I'm talking about thousands of children, sir.

No, they do, they do, sir. Even there is no such thing as thousands of children. The entire Palestinian prisoners, there's no such thing as a child that seems in your eye. Mostly children. And please, when you say war crimes, war crimes, you're just repeating like a parrot, whatever you know they told you. There is no war crime.

Israel is following the war protocol in Gaza, and I will never take the cover of those soldiers who are risking their lives on regular basis. Sir, if anything, you are the one that has been repeating yourself as a parent. I will silently listen to your rant of a narrative that is being abducted. And yes, you keep them pointing on Gaza. If you want to help me, you are going to discuss what is happening in the West Bank. Instead, they sent. What about the hospitals that are being bombed?

What about the universities? What about the hospitals? What about the universities? What about what about Hamas? What about Hamas digging tunnels and bunkers? and command centers under those aspects. Your vendetta with Hamas is not a collective issue. Sir, your vendetta with Hamas, whatever it may be, is not a collective issue.

Again, this is older. This is bigger than Hamas. Hamas is a criminal. Is Hamas in the West Bank? Can we try an exercise, Pierce? Can we just try one last thing? Can we try an exercise, to your credit, to move Hamas from the equation? Let me just say, to your credit to both of you, I've done lots of interviews and debates

in the last few weeks, most of which have descended into slanging matches. You two have managed to avoid that for the main and missed debate. And I appreciate the way you've allowed each other to speak and have your say. I think we get a lot further in trying to understand the complexities of this situation and indeed the passions on both sides. And I think you've both articulated those very well. So thank you very much indeed for joining me. I appreciate it.