Piers Morgan Uncensored - Candace Owens, Marc Lamont Hill and Lord Jamar On Diddy & Kamala Harris

Episode Date: October 18, 2024

While the world waits for the next big revelations on Diddy, pundits, critics, celebrities and fans are all speculating over who knew about his crimes, and crucially, did nothing. Candace Owens and academic Marc Lamont Hill discuss the scandal, focusing particularly on whether there is a race aspect to it. Piers Morgan then brings producer and podcaster Lord Jamar into the discussion, which moves on to Kamala Harris. Lord Jamar has taken offence to Harris calling herself a black woman, whereas Marc believes that Kamala’s changing accent is typical of a people that live in a society hostile to blackness. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Behind the scenes, everyone knew that this is what he was engaged in. This was an open secret in Hollywood. Did you know about Diddy Pierce? No, I didn't. No. We really are just getting to the beginning of everything. People at the upper echelons of society and politics knew about this when they were okay with it. I said there's a race piece to this. And people by virtue of being black are asked to denounce Diddy because they're supposed to be representing blackness in the black community.

It's amazing, Mark, that you always see a race in here. I'm rejecting the narrative that I've introduced racism in this conversation. You literally said you wanted to bring race on. You did. I didn't say random white people on the street. I said, I know. I said white people in Hollywood.

To me, it feels like they're both wearing black face. I can't sort through all of Kamala's various accents. There's so many of them. To be front of a Latina crowd, suddenly she's Selena, you know, and she's speaking like a Latina. You know, I can't deal with it. As a black person, you should vote for the person that uplifts the black community.

That's her. How does she disrespect you? By placating to me, by giving me word salads and all kind of nonsense, acting like she doesn't have to answer questions, being the artful dodger. And if she wants to get down, act like she's black, well... The next US president will either be an accomplished state prosecutor and senator or a billionaire real estate mogul who served four years in the Oval Office. At least that's how I many other people see it.

But the laws of identity politics, this is actually a contest in a mixed-raised woman and a very privileged white man who's intrinsically racist, and race has inevitably become a lightning rod of mis-election. Sweet Kamala Harris said that she's open to taxpayer-funded reparations for slavery. She also unveils an opportunity agenda for black men, which included legalising weed and offering one million forgivable loans to black business owners. Most black voters will support it, nobody doubts that,

which is on track to win a much smaller share of black voters than Joe Biden did in 2020. Donald Trump, meanwhile, is on course to make substantial gains amongst black voters. In a little while, we'll debate why that is. But first we're going to focus on P Diddy, whose scandal deepens daily, already facing federal charges, including sex trafficking and racketeering. Sean Combs has been hit with a slew of new civil lawsuits, accusing him of sexual assault against six victims, one of them, a 16-year-old boy. Well, to debate this, I'm joined by the host of the Candice podcast, Candice Owens, and the host of Bet News and Upfront

on Lounge Zero, Professor Mark Lamont Hill. Welcome to both of you. Candice, good to have you back and unsensitive. Pete Diddy. This seems like every day the scandal gets bigger and worse for him. Yeah, it certainly does. And I'm not surprised whatsoever. I mean, I think I was on your show before he got arrested and I brought up what was going on with him and because I had read through the lawsuit. And it was just one of those things that was unavoidable because there was so much evidence. I mean, there was picture documentation. There was video documentation. And I also want to be clear that the press and the media and the public at large is, is showing. shocked by what's happening, but we really are just getting to the beginning of everything.

There are a lot of people who have been named that have not been brought to heal, people that were above him, music executives. And none of this is shocking, really. I think, you know, yesterday a report came out that showed that faith in the mainstream media is at an all-time low, right? I think something like 65% of Americans no longer trust the mainstream media. The Didi case is a perfect example as to why that is. You know, you have people that spent so much time defending this man. This man was allowed to be with every presidential candidate. He was allowed to throw parties. He was hailed as a hero. And yet behind the scenes, everyone knew that this is what he was engaged in. This was an open secret in Hollywood. In fact, when Kanye last year said that he was a Fed

and started speaking about some of these allegations, he was simply dismissed as crazy. People at the upper echelons of society and politics knew about this and they were okay with it. Fundamentally, be because he was acting apart, I very much believe what Kanye alleged, that he was acting apart like Jeffrey Epstein in which he was collecting blackmail over various people that were in Hollywood. And so, like I said, we're at the beginning. We're scratching the surface of this scandal. There are some more big names that are going to have to answer for it. And I think also the silence of certain individuals like LeBron James is quite deafening, a person who claims to care so much about black life, you know, black lives matter, on the ground,

taking a kneel, okay, that's fine. But now you have a friend of yours who has been on camera beating a black woman, okay? You said nothing when that happened. You also know that you have various black people speaking out about how they were abused by him, and you have said nothing. So I don't like the hypocrisy behind that.

Yeah, I think it's a good point. I mean, Mark, there are lots of big names being dragged into this. We don't know where the truth lies with that yet, but certainly people like LeBron have been deafening with their silence for the reasons that Candice just are taken. It reminds me a little bit of Epstein in relation to all the apparent taping of videos and pictures and stuff that was allegedly going on and we'll see what that plays out like in a courtroom But it also reminds me of Harvey Weinstein in a sense that there you had somebody in the movie industry as big as PDD, well, I think the most Oscar nominated person in the history as a producer in Hollywood

Where everyone must have known something about it right? I mean I knew that Harvey was a pretty bad bully and all the rest of it. And it must have been more than an open secret amongst a lot of those celebrities and Hollywood crowd. Did you know about Diddy Pierce? No, I didn't. No. Wait a minute. I didn't, I didn't know. I met Diddy.

I met Diddy a couple of times. I mean, here's what I was, the point of, the analogy I'm going to make is, I met Diddy twice for about 10 minutes. Harvey, I knew a lot better, and I knew there was an unsavory side to him. I didn't know about all the rape stuff that then emerged, but I do believe there must have been

a lot of people who did know that stuff. who were around Harvey Weinstein at a close enough level to know that. And I certainly believe with P. Diddy that there were a lot of people that were going to these freak off parties and so on who must have known for many, many years that all this stuff was going on.

That's the parallel I'm drawing. No, I understand the parallel you're drawing. The idea that I'm disputing is just the idea that everyone knew. No, no, I don't mean everybody. I mean, look, I just think a lot of people must have known. Of course. Of course, we're not in disagreement about a few things.

First, everything that Diddy has been accused of is despicable and indefensible. And I hope that he is held accountable in all the ways that are fair and just and reasonable. There are, I mean, who knows how many victims? You know, there are lots of allegations. I have no doubt that lots of the allegations are true. And as Candace said, I have no doubt that lots of people have known for a long time. And there are lots of reasons why people didn't come forward. Some of it is good old-fashioned, you know, Hollywood culture, which is people are getting exploited, people are getting hurt, people are getting harmed.

But as long as it's the Old Boys Network, we don't care. And Diddy became one of the Old Boys Network. The Old Boys Network isn't just old white men. It also includes powerful rich black men. Not in the same way, but certainly people like Diddy are in that mix. I don't disagree with that. I'm very uncomfortable throwing LeBron James' name out there as someone who knew something or has some conspiratorial reason.

On that, Candice was quite careful how she worded that. She didn't say that he knew. She just said he's been deafening by his silence, which he has. He's been very vocal about a lot of other issues involving the black community in America. Why is he so silent just because it happens to be somebody he used to party with? it's just interesting. It is interesting, but I want to caution the audience not to jump to any conclusions about why LeBron hasn't. Again, let me be very clear.

LeBron should speak out about this because something awful happened, and he has a duty. I think all public figures have a duty to speak out against awful, morally, atrocious things that happen. I just don't want to leap to a conclusion. I'm not saying Candace did. I'm not saying you did. But I don't want to leap to a conclusion that there's some other sort of, you know, reason why he may have done this.

The other thing here is... I just remember... On that, I just remember... I just need you to hear... Okay, go ahead, Pierce, I'm sorry. Well, the point I was going to make just on the point you made... All I was going to say is...

All right. Okay, there's just a little delay. Let me go first. Let me go first. The point I was going to make about the point... You go first. You just made a really good point, which I want to make a point in,

which is I think that the point I would make was when Harvey Weinstein went down, there was an absolute stampede of... celebrities in Hollywood who rushed to distance themselves and publicly denounce him. And I've just noticed that with P. Diddy, there's been a very, very, very small number of high-profile black celebrities, including sports stars, entertainers, and so on, who have chosen to do that yet. So there's a marked difference between the way these two

scandals have played out in terms of how many high-profile people are prepared to go, this is disgusting. Well, I think there's a, thing here, right? Harvey Weinstein was a predator full stop, right? Diddy is, based on the evidence, a predator full stop, and some other stuff. And there are a lot of people based on what I've know, what I know, people

I've spoken to, the stories I've heard, and the rumors I've heard for 20 years now, about Diddy that aren't always about predation, and that's the complicated thing here, right? A lot of the details, a lot of the gossil, a lot of the nastiness, you'll just hear me out, you'll understand.

The thing is a lot of the subtext around Diddy isn't about predation. It's around sexuality. And so a lot of people aren't really outraged, especially in a hip-hop community, that Diddy was praying on underage girls allegedly or that he's beating up Cassie allegedly. Some people are just weirded out that he may have been having sex with dudes. And so there's a multiple things happening here. And so a lot of the people in Hollywood who are being quiet on Diddy, they're not being quiet because they knew he was doing something illegal. some of them are quiet because they were at the parties, they were at the freak-offs doing freaky stuff.

And the freaky stuff isn't illegal, but it can ruin your career in a society that's homophobic. So it's a lot of things mixed in. Okay, Candice, you're raising your hand. I think I know why, but go ahead. Yeah, you know, I agree with you in some ways. What I would just add is it's without question because they did not know that he was reporting them.

I mean, when I read through that lawsuit, Rodney made it very clear that he had hidden cameras. And if you are a person like LeBron who says ain't no party like a Diddy Party, you got Ashton Coochard talking about what happens at Diddy Party, stays at Diddy Parties. And so finally you learned via the press that actually Diddy has been collecting evidence on all of you and you don't know where those tapes are. That will buy your silence for quite some time because you're hoping that if you keep your head low, you're not going to be revealed as one of these people that was engaged in some of these acts, whether they were heterosexual or homosexual, it doesn't matter. Maybe you're just cheating on your wife and you don't want that to get out. into the public. Maybe you were, as Kat Williams described it, in one of the rooms. He said you could just walk around the house. He said this on stage years ago that you could walk around the house

and you would see people engaged in various sex acts. And again, Kat Williams was someone who was dismissed as crazy and dismissed as a drug addict. And it turned out that, or it seems that these allegations are proven to be true and I believe they are, then he was telling the truth. And I think that is the reason that so many of them are silent because they were doing things. They thought that they were his friend, that they were bad boys for life, and that he would keep things silent when in reality he was just another Jeffrey and Epstein-type character and they're scared for their lives.

Especially if you're someone like a LeBron James, and I'm not alleging that he is caught in something terrible, but if he was caught in anything and you're LeBron James and you've made your mark on talking about the ills of society and you have minted yourself a king and you're speaking out on the black community and they find out you're the room over while someone's getting raped potentially,

not going to look good. Well, I just think, look, we don't know, as you say, where the truth lies with this, and we're not inferring anything against LeBron or Ashton Couch or anybody else. You know, I had Jaguar right on who made a number of allegations against Beyonce and Jay-Z,

which we were not able to independently substantiate, which were vigorously denied. Which was ridiculous that they sent you a cease and desist. They just said that these allegations are completely... They should have sent you a cease and desist. Well, no, I'll tell you what they said me. Actually, it wasn't even that. No, I'll tell you what happened.

They just said, look, these allegations are completely untrue, and we will sue you if you don't take them down. Now, the laws in this country are much more draconian about defamation than they are in America. So there may have been a slight cross-the-pond misunderstanding about why we needed to do what we did. We had no way of independently verifying anything she said in relation to Jay-Z and Beyonce.

Now, who knows where this scandal goes or what names get dragged in and in what way, but what it's taught me is you just have to be careful, when a story like this breaks that when we put big names into the scandal, you just don't infer they don't have anything wrong yet. The only thing we can say, which is, I think, pertinent to this, comes back to what we said at the start.

When people who are as normally vocal as LeBron, who can be as condemnatory as he's been publicly about all manner of issues, when they're completely silent about something as big as this, and you know they were good friends with B-Diddy and were at the parties and so on, you just raise an eyebrow, right? And you would about everybody,

may well be, as Candace says, Mark, it might be a sense of unknown, not knowing what's on tape here, not wanting to get involved at all. I totally understand it. But I do remember by marked contrast, the number of people in the Weinstein scandal who raced to publicly disown him. And interestingly, with Epstein, that didn't happen with him because he also had a lot of tapes. It's interesting. It's an interesting point, Pierce. Again, Diddy is very interesting in that for the last 30 year. 30 years he has taken pictures and partied and hung out with everyone. Yes, he's hung out with politicians, but I guarantee you a lot of them politicians. I ain't saying all of them, but a lot of them politicians had no idea what was going on behind the scenes.

When you go to a ditty party, there's levels to the ditty party. There's the ditty party at the club. There's the ditty party at his house. Then there's the after party. Then there's the after after party, right? I haven't been to any of those after parties or after parties or any of those parties, in fact. So I'm just speaking as a researcher here and as a journalist. I'm saying that there are levels to them.

So there are lots of people who go to the Diddy parties that don't know any of that. But if you find out that all these awful things happen at Diddy parties at 4 a.m., it's hard to go to the media and say, yo, I was at the Diddy Party, but I left at 12. I was in the Hamptons, but I didn't go to the next location. And so I think a lot of it is fear of public relations. And I think to Candace's point,

I don't think it's a coincidence that Diddy has all these strategic alliances with every single person in Hollywood, black, or white. And I think Harvey Weinstein didn't have those types of relationships, so it was much easier for people to run from him. And also, you know, the kind of, you know the kind of, yeah, the kind of hypocrisy, though, Candice, which really gets my go with this, take somebody like John Legend, right, who decided to rewrite the lyrics to baby it's cold outside because it endorsed sexual misconduct, which obviously was completely preposterous. It's one of the most innocent flirtatious videos ever made back in the 60s about a beautiful love song. And it was

completely misappropriated by legend. No, it was rapy. Knock it off. It's not rapy at all. Baby, it's cold. Do you want to come in for a drink? It's cold outside. Do me a favor. And anyway, and even if you... She keeps saying no, and he keeps trying to get inside. Come on, Pierce.

It was harmless flirtation. We're completely misconstrued deliberately by John Legend to tick all the right virtue-sicking boxes. But here's my point. What does John Legend said about... Would you testify to that in court? What does John Legend said about Pee did he? He was enraged.

by a 1950s video of harmless flirtation, so much so he rewrote the lyrics, Candace, but he's not enraged enough by what he's reading about P. Diddy, someone he knows well, to make any comment that I've seen so far. Right, and that is the reason why people can't stand the Hollywood types, rightfully so. I mean, John Legend has always been a walking contradiction. He speaks often, oh, yes, the bullying of this cute Christmas song,

but everybody loves, and I'm still going to play the original lyrics forever, but his wife is sliding into the DMs. notoriously of teenagers and telling them they should kill themselves and offering like this small apology. Like, I'm really going to take some time off and think about this. So you married a bully. You have been at so many parties, friends with these people. You constantly purport that you're fighting for social justice on every cause.

Like I said, the real litmus test was the video, which did he owned. That was him beating Cassie on tape. So forget if you're like, you want to play the card of, well, it's innocent until proven guilty. I know people are making all these allegations, but I'm going to wait. Where were you on the topic of Cassie being beat to a pulp on camera? And did he offering this little meandering apology about that? Let me respond to that because I, no, I would just like to finish if you don't mind. You're allowed to, they don't seem like there doesn't seem like there's a buzzer here. So I think I can finish my thought. But, you know, and that's what has become so problematic is

they are constantly virtue and signaling to the public about how great they are because they're not voting for Donald Trump. Donald Trump's such an awful person because he may be cheated on his wife 16, 20, 30 years ago, whatever it is. And they just cannot muster that same energy when they are looking at proof which somebody comes out and says, take full accountability.

I did beat her. That's me. It's ridiculous. Okay, Mark? So here's my response. And I didn't mean to interrupt you, Candace. Again, there's a sound delay. I thought you would pause that I wasn't trying to be rude. Forgive me. We're saying that John Legend didn't respond to Cassie or to the Diddy Parties, and we're saying this as if it's true,

but it's not true. And so I just want to read to you what John Legend actually said in response to this. And he said it months and months ago. He said, I was horrified by the descriptions that I read before the video evidence came out, meaning he believed Cassie even before the video. He then said, and absolutely,

it's something that needs to be brought to light when it happens. He said, my default stance is to believe women when they make these accusations and to make sure that we do whatever we can to support women. He also said that he was specifically horrified of this. And then he said, regarding to the other Diddy stuff, he said what he's accused of is shameful.

And he said all the other victims that have alleged that he's abused them. It's quite a shame for them, too. I really just want accountability and healing. So I think this is an opportunity for us to say, this is why we shouldn't jump to judgment. We're on national, international television, castigating John Legend for not doing the very thing that he actually did. Then all I had to do is type John Legend did he, and it came up first. So you guys owe John Legend an apology if you don't edit this. Yeah, okay.

So here's what I'm saying to that. It's right that you've pointed that out. My understanding is that that were comments he made back in May, not since we've had the raft of charges against Diddy's, which is what I'm talking about. So there's been nothing, it's been a deafening wall of silence since the charges. That's what I'm talking about.

We were just talking about Cassie. I did not see. He specifically just said he didn't say anything about Cassie. He clearly did make a statement in referring to that, and that should be acknowledged. So that's fair enough to point about. I actually did not see the statement that he made about Cassie and read it in its entirety.

So if I miss that, I'm more than happy to own it. I did not see him make a statement. And typically when he makes a statement, it's everywhere. So I guess they just hadn't picked up on what he said about Cassie. And he did great. I'm glad that he's one person in Hollywood who said something because that was the most troubling for me with LeBron James. I'm like, we actually have video evidence of this.

Like everybody should be saying something about this if you purport to care about women. And him and Chrissy Teigen are typically very loud on top of his wife especially. So if I missed that and he said something about Cassie, good for John Legend. That makes he and I are on the exact. exact same side on that. But it's not enough, but it's just John Legend. Like, there needs to be a lot more people in Hollywood that are speaking out about what's happening. Let me ask you, there's a race piece to this too, though. Can we talk about the race piece to this? I'm sorry, I was literally about to ask you about that. So you go ahead, Mark, go on.

Because it's really fascinating here, right? So we're saying, Diddy does this awful thing. Again, Diddy, despicable, monster, no defensive Diddy. We're asking all the prominent black people to speak out against it, right? But there is never a, call for white people to denounce the, like, no one says everybody who ever met, every white guy has ever met Harvey Weinstein needs to say something. Yes, there was. Of course there was. No, no, no.

Literally everyone who ever worked with him was asked to condemn it. And most of them rushed to do it. Pierce, Pierce, Pierce, I want you to listen to what I said again, because you just disagree with the point I did not make. I didn't say that everyone in Hollywood was not challenged to address Weinstein. I said there's a race piece to this. and people by virtue of being black are asked to denounce Diddy because they're supposed to be representing blackness in the black community.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, that's exactly what Candace. I said, hang on, hang on. I said, no, Mark, hang on. I'm not saying every black person has to comment on it because they're black. I'm saying I've been struck by the fact there is a massively smaller number of high-profile black celebrities who have spoken out, comparative to what happened when Weysteen went down. So you're right that there is a race element to this,

but it's the reverse one. Hang on, hang on, hang on, let me finish. It's the reverse point to the one you're making. It actually is skewed against the white guy. He got more of a lambasting from celebrities than the black guy who's done arguably worse stuff. I wish I had the same race dog. It's amazing, Mark, that you always see a race angle here.

The reason why I specifically called out. about LeBron James and these types is because they themselves are wearing the same race goggles. They purport to be the superheroes in the black community that every time there's some sort of a social injustice playing out against a black victim, they use their platforms to speak out about it because they say, oh, it's so unfair that black people are not being believed. It's so unfair. Hashtag George Floyd, hashtag this person. So if you are going to assert yourself as a leader when black people make claims before they're proven in court, this might be a good time to do it when you have a man who had so much power in Hollywood and you just have an onslaught of black

artists coming out saying that they were victimized by him, it might be a good time to use your platform. I'm calling out the hypocrisy and the double standard of that. If LeBron James had kept his mouth shut on every other issue and said nothing, I wouldn't be like, hey, why is LeBron James being quiet on this issue? I'd say he doesn't typically weigh in on anything. So would it make sense to put pressure on him to do it? That would be the scenario in which what you are saying would make sense. It's the exact opposite. I'm saying keep the exact same energy that you have had on every other black issue when it comes to your door and it pertains to a friend of yours that you were partying with. I think that's pretty sensible. Yeah. Mark, where is just,

do you mind if I respond to that? Sure. There are three points that we made that like to respond to. First thing is I'm rejecting the narrative that I've introduced race into this conversation. The conversation you literally said you wanted to bring race up. You did. You literally said I want to bring race. I understand that. That was in reality. You did it. I'm going to ask you to allow me to finish a sentence uninterrupted the way you have Candice.

Then you can hear why you're actually not correct. Hear what I'm saying. When I said I want to bring race into this, it was in response to the point that Candace had made five minutes prior when you watch us on TV, y'all, on YouTube, rewind. Then you'll see this. When she said LeBron James has spoken out for the black community, right? and historically, but isn't saying anything here. That was the first time that race was mentioned. My invocation of race was in response to that.

And as you conceded just a moment ago, when you disagreed with me, you were saying that you were saying that there's a relatively lower response from the black community on this issue than prior issues. Not black community. Now, don't miss quote me. Not black community. High profile celebrity.

Black celebrity. Fair enough. Fair enough. That's a much smaller part of the community. I agree with you. But the fundamental point here is when I said I'm introducing race, it was to respond to a claim that was already racialized around LeBron James five to ten minutes prior. Now, to actually address the issue that I was responding to because I didn't introduce race into the conversation.

The idea here for me is when Harvey Weinstein does something, Hollywood has to respond. When Diddy does something, black people have to respond. Now, I happen to believe that as a black person with a public platform, an athlete, an actress, or a journalist. We should respond to the ditty thing. I don't think that we should ignore our responsibility. So what are you complaining about? I'm okay.

My complaint is that when black people don't do it, we are criticized differently than when the white guy doesn't do it. I don't know. Hang on, hang on, hang on. Mark, I'm sorry. The idea that people were running around asking random white people in the street about Harvey Weinstein is ridiculous. They're not doing it.

I didn't say that. And they're not doing it with random black people I didn't say that. I'm talking... That's a straw man. I'm talking... No, it's not. The straw man argument is you... No, no, you are conflating.

I didn't say random white people in... I said, I said, white people in Hollywood. Hang on. I said white people in Hollywood. You are... I understand, but I'm deliberately... I'm conflating two things. That's not the same.

I'm conflating... I know you are. High profile black celebrities and high profile white celebrities and how they responded to Weinstein and to Diddy. and it's been very different. The volume of white celebrities who denounced Weinstein

was far higher than it's been with Diddy. And my response to that is, when Weinstein happens, people didn't say, hey, where are the high-profile white Hollywood celebrities? What they said is, where are the high-profile celebrities? Where are the Hollywood types? They were asking Will Smith as much as they were asking Heidi Klum. When it comes to Diddy, they're only asking for black people.

Hang on, Candidious is done. Again, Mark. I didn't finish a sentence yet. Let me finish the sentence before you disagree with it. You're wrong. Candice literally mentioned Ashton Cuccher, who last time I checked is a white guy. I didn't mention Ashton Coucher. Ashton Coochard.

Okay. He's white. Again, I want you to hear what I'm actually saying, and I want you to actually hear what I'm saying and disagree with what I'm saying and not what I'm not saying. The conversation about Harvey Weinstein, and I challenge you to show me any piece of evidence where you call it out and said, hey, I'd love to hear from some high-profile white celebrities. Because you've never said white. You just said high-profile celebrities. Maybe to you, Hollywood just means white. But in general, the idea here for Weinstein was,

we want his peers to speak out. We want his peers to say something. We want white people, black people. We just want his peers to say something. But when black people don't do it, it is framed to some kind of specific or unique moral failure. And that's the idea that I'm challenging here. Again, I want everybody to speak out against both of those monsters.

But I'm saying, let's not treat one differently than yellow. With respect, the slight story is that Candice actually said LeBron and Ashton Coochard. And last time I checked Ashton Coochard, and this may not be the case, but I believe he still identifies as a white guy. Last I checked, you're not Candace Owens. Last I checked, you're not Candace Owens. I'm criticizing you right now, Pierce, not Candice Owens. So you can't say, well, Candice said it. Y'all aren't, y'all aren't, they're not a buddy comedy here. I'm critiquing your approach and coverage of this conversation. And you can't say, well, Candice said it. I didn't disagree with Candace. I disagree with you on that particular point. Okay.

Okay. Let's take a little beat. What are he talking about? Or Candace said him. You can't say... Candice? I don't think you could say I would like to introduce race and then 30 seconds later say I did not introduce race. I mean, the records will show.

You definitely introduced race. And I brought up LeBron James and for a very specific reason because he was quite literally at the parties and because he's used his platform to speak out on black victimization, not because he was black. I was pointing out the astounding hypocrisy. I didn't say, let's talk about LeBron James because he's a black band. I mean, I would have brought up tons of other black people and said, where are their voices?

But it wouldn't have made sense because they don't hang out with him and they don't use their platforms. And I did bring up Ashton Coucher as well and very many other celebrities. I'm pretty sure Chrissy Teigen is not black. She's Asian. So I'm completely confused, completely lost at what point you were trying to make there. I do think that you do tend to see things through the vein of race because when people are just making a sound point about why it is. is that there is some interest in LeBron James' silence right now. And I think he should speak out because he had a friendship there

and because he reports that he cares so much about black victimization and there is a long list of black victims. I think it's very sound. You can disagree with it. I agree with you, Candace. I agree with you, Candace. I agree with the point that you're making Candace. I want to ask you something.

You've also, I believe, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you said that there wouldn't have been the attention on the raid at Diddy's home, for example, if he'd been a white rapper, to which I would say, if that had been M&M at the height of his powers. Say that again? Say that again? I didn't hear you. I believe you said before in a previous debate or interview

that there wouldn't have been the same attention that was given to the raid on Diddy's Home if it had been a white rapper, to which I would say that. You didn't say that? I didn't say that. What did you say about that? You can disagree with that point too, but you wouldn't be disagreeing with me.

Okay. But feel free to make your Eminem argument. So apparently on the document, Well, just to clarify, on the documentary with TMZ, that's what I'm told is where you said that. It's hard for me to imagine that had this been many other celebrities, particularly white celebrities, that their children would have been in handcuffs,

and they would have been forced to stare down the barrel of guns and seen armored tanks. It just seemed like a lot for a raid of a music producer. Right, I know the documentary you're referencing. I wish you would have watched it with all due respect, and then you would know I didn't say that. I'll tell you what I said. What I did say was not the attention.

Diddy is an international superstar, black, white, red, or yellow. We should be watching Diddy. And there's no reason why race is playing into the why of why we're watching it. That had nothing to do with what I'm talking about. What I'm talking about was the actual nature of the raid. Typically, unless you believe, and this is what I was arguing at the time, unless you believe that Diddy was an armed threat, there was no need to handle his children

who were not at the time charged with anything in the way that they did. There was no reason to have SWAT almost like the National Guard that's full military infrastructure to do this. I think they should, I'm not saying they shouldn't have raided the house.

I'm not saying they shouldn't have arrested Ditty. I'm not saying any of that. I'm saying that my comparison is they wouldn't have done that to Mark Cuban. That's my point. But there's an idea. Now, as more evidence comes out, but hang on, hang on, hang on.

Mark, Mark, hang on. Mark, hang on. On that point, you said they wouldn't have done it to Mark Cuban. Mark Cuban is a massive celebrity in America. If he had been doing what we now know from this charge sheet against P. Diddy, he's accused of doing. Damn right, they'd have done that to Mark Cuban. These are not like small...

Done what? These are not small allegations. Have you read the charge... Have you read the charge sheet against Diddy? You know what he's accused of. That's not what I'm disagree. Again, you're saying... You're saying that...

You're saying the nature of the raid would not have been as over the top if it had been Mark Cuban because he's a white guy, right? Is that what you said? I actually don't think it's quite that simple. I think the rapper part of it has a lot to do with it. I think they might have done that to Eminem. That's what I'm saying. It's not purely racial. I'm saying that when you're making, I don't really understand it.

I promise you, just pro tip here, journalist and journalist, if you let me finish the sentence, you'll completely get what I'm saying much more. It's it. What I'm saying is, is that with Diddy, as opposed to say Mark Cuban, just to use that example, there's an assumption that even if Mark Cuban is committing awful acts or Harvey Weinstein, we don't need tanks. We don't need to tie his children up and make them sit outside because there's no reason to believe that those children are going to do harm. There is a default assumption that there's going to be a level of danger attached to Diddy that aren't even consistent with the charges. Again, he's a monster, right? But they don't usually break in to homes with tanks and machine guns for charge.

child molesters, even though child molasses are the worst people in the world. Because there's no reason to believe they're going to be cloned out with AR-15. It depends how many guns they think the person has, I would imagine. Count just back to you. Yeah, so I just wanted to bring up a friend of mine, James O'Keefe, who got braided by the feds and had guns pointed at him over a diary. Ashley Biden's diary. He didn't even publish. He's a white guy.

Had nothing to do with anything and eventually was not found guilty. So this is the way that they act during raids. Regarding his children, if you read the initial lawsuit with Lil Rod, There was a very credible allegation, which Little Rod made, that he was there the night, that Puffy, Ditty, whatever his name is today, that his son was involved in the shooting that was in the bathroom. So it was obviously understandable that they may have thought, given the allegations, that his son had something to do with it. A son was listed all throughout the lawsuit. So when they were raiding them, they were probably also rating the sons as well. That was my immediate assumption when I saw it.

but I do think it's completely absurd to suggest that there was any sort of rapper or black motivation behind the raid. Like I said, James O'Keefe is a perfect example, and they did not have anything. They had no reason to raid James O'Keefe in the manner that they did, and they did while he was in his boxers at like 3 a.m. in the morning, and they put guns to his head. So I just completely dispute that.

On something just linked but separate, you've just been with Kanye, Ye, over in Japan, I believe you saw him. And that happened at the same time at an 88-page lawsuit was filed against him, alleging that he drugged and raped an ex-assistent while at one of Sean Diddy Combs' parties. This came from an influencer and former only fan star Lauren Pichiotr, who's already sued him before.

She claims that the rapper regularly had sex with employees, had a rotating list of guests at his Yeezy, company offices and makeshift bedrooms, and so on. what's your reaction to that? I mean, is yay potentially another diddy here? What are we looking at? So I actually didn't read the lawsuit because I just flew over from Tokyo yesterday,

but were there videos and documentation of that or is she just alleging that in a second lawsuit that she's filed? I'm asking seriously. Yeah, I mean... Can I ask a question? Oh, sorry. Yeah, go on that. Candace, and I mean this sincerely, If you read the lawsuit and it seems credible, I know you wanted to go through the legal process, but would you denounce Kanye's actions or the allegations against Kanye as wrong?

If there were ever a lawsuit as thorough, and I want to be clear, I'm the woman who stood up against the Me Too movement. I am very much just agree with women dropping allegations absent any evidence and having their entire careers taken away, men having their entire careers. As much as it pained me, I stood up for Matt Lauer because I thought that what happened to him was wrong. The Diddy situation was completely different because the guy had pictures, photos, and documentation. I've never seen an evidence. I've never seen so much evidence filed in. a lawsuit in my entire life. So I have not looked at this lawsuit. I don't know if I would file this under the Me Too thing, where women just make allegations and them are supposed to believe them. I don't believe in hashtag Believe Women. I'm very against that. I've been vocally against that movement from the very beginning.

Did not believe Amber Heard from the very beginning. So I would have to examine that particular lawsuit. But if any, if there was ever anything filed as strong as what was filed against Ditty, and mind you, Kanye was the one who used his platform to speak out against Dity before it even became popular. I would, of course, be saying something about that because we're talking about an entire ring of abuse, drugs, pink cocaine. Again, these are allegations, but the pictures of the blood that he shot someone, I would be a complete hypocrite not to speak out and say, oh, well, he's my friend. So I'm totally okay if he's just shooting people in a bathroom and calling his friends to hide the evidence.

I mean, this is, I would imagine we're comparing apple to oranges, but I'm happy to be educated on that lawsuit because I haven't actually read through it. And just, given you haven't read it, that's fair enough. How is he? Yeah, I mean, when I last interviewed him was about a year ago, and he was pretty well all over the place, he'd been accused of making a number of anti-Semitic comments, obviously, we all know about that. He's kind of dissipated off the radar a bit.

How is he? He looked great. I mean, he's lost so much weight. He looked happy and healthy, and he essentially said that he needed to get out of Los Angeles. And I completely sympathize with that because I do believe that it is a demonic tant. The Hollywood has always since its founding been a town that was established by gangs.

We're talking about MGM and Paramount and the origins of Hollywood. They were bootleggers that then became directors and the owners of companies. That's just the reality. And so I do think it was healthy for him to get out of that climate and to move somewhere where you don't have paparazzi following you all the time. And he's working on an album just by himself. And I think that that isolation is good for him. I mean, Mark, should there be for gifts?

Your response first? I was just a little taken aback by that exchange just now. I mean, two things. One, on the Me Too movement, the Me Too movement doesn't argue and never has argued that we should prosecute people without evidence or that women can make claims without evidence. Such an argument, such an argument would presume that the woman's claim itself or the woman's experience itself does not count as evidence. if you're on a date and get sexually assaulted or you're in your bedroom and get sexually assaulted and you go to the police and say,

hey, this thing happened to me, the police would take your statement and assess it and look for more evidence, but your initial claim itself is evidence, your witness is evidence. But if we say that women come forward, and all they have is their story that they got raped and that's not evidence.

No, no, that's effectively... I think your miscarrying what Candid said unless I'm wrong, and I share her view on this. This whole, you have to believe women, all men, by the way, who make allegations like this, I don't agree with that. You know, every part of my journalist...

I don't agree with it either. I don't agree with it either. I think the real trouble with the meeting... Well, hang on. There were lots of good things that came out of me, too. The real flaw with it was taking that as the principle of everyone had to be believed, whatever they were saying. Because actually, what everyone should be in that position,

they should be taken seriously. It should be properly investigated. by proper authorities, and justice should be seen to be done. That is how these things should be handled. Nobody should just be automatically believed, because that way is what led to a number of people getting cancelled, left, right and center, when actually it turned out, in some cases,

that they just did not deserve it. And Matt Lauer, I'd say, is a good example. Yeah, and I can't stand Matt Lauer, so it pains me to use my platform to defend. Mr. Smyth, I think you're being very impartial. Mark. Yeah. I didn't misconstrue what Candace said.

There's just a difference slightly between what she said and what you just said. I don't agree with either of you fully, but I think there's a thing that we all do share, which is people be lying sometimes, right? People sometimes don't tell the truth, and we shouldn't assume that people are always telling the truth. The origins of believe women wasn't believe all women at all times and all places. There are ways that that has become the sort of almost caricature of the Me Too movement. But the idea here was that as a culture, really a race, rape culture, not just in the United States, but globally, we used to begin from a default

assumption that women were lying. That when a woman said I was, she was raped, the first thing we'd say is, what were you wearing? Did you drink? You know, are you dating them? Did you say, yes? And our default position was of doubt and skepticism and rejection. You know what I think I would say to that? And so believe women begins from a place of that. But I agree with you. Well, you shouldn't have a bit, you shouldn't have an instinctive. You shouldn't have an instinctive disbelief of people who make allegations either. I don't believe you should fully believe or disbelieve anyone who makes claims. You take them seriously. That's what people want. And they also want to feel, I mean, look, I think the same in America. I think we're saying the same thing.

Well, yeah, in the UK in America, the number of people of convictions, for rape, for example, in the UK is something like 2 or 3% of all cases that go to court end up with convictions. That's clearly ridiculous. So there are lots of flaws in this system, which Me Too highlighted, which I agree with. But I think this idea that you automatically believe people or disbelieve them, both of them are equally dangerous. I want to just bring in another guest and keep you two here for a moment. It's Lord Jamar, who we interviewed recently about Diddy and who went viral this week for his comments on Carmelah Harris, which I'll come to in a moment. But, Lord Jamar, first of all, you've been listening to this debate we've been having. What is your view about where we are

with this Diddy scandal? You know, it's been quite a debate. You know, I'm not surprised with everything that's going on with Diddy. I do feel his peers should speak out, black, white, or indifferent. Yeah, what he's done, what he's being accused of doing is reprehensible. And, yeah, we need to speak out about it. Do you think he's coming out of prison or is that it for him? I don't know. It looks bad for him.

You know, I don't know. He doesn't seem like. the type that would do well in prison in my mind. If he was really forced to have to do some time, I don't... Yeah, I don't know if he's built for that. So you'd have to see what happens. Let me just move to the stuff that went viral with you, Lord Jabbar. This is your stuff about Kamala Harris,

which, are you surprised about the amount of pickup that guy? A little bit, yeah. But not really because I think people are a little shock that someone like me, you know, from a group brand new being that they feel is pro-black, why would I come out in support of Donald Trump or go against a Kamala Harris who they are trying to put up as a black woman and I don't see him?

Well, let me, I'm going to play the, first of all, the Barack Obama clip And then I'm going to play the clip that you said in response to it. Let's play the two. And you're coming up with all kinds of reasons and excuses. Makes me think, I'm speaking to men directly. Part of it makes me think that, well, you just aren't feeling the idea of having a woman as present. And now I want to play the clip from Lord Jemar talking about that. I feel that she's so bad that guess what?

I might just go f*** around and vote for Trump. And this is my first time saying this out loud. But y'all think you're going to shame somebody or bully a bit into voting for this bitch? Absolutely not. Absolutely not. And now I'm going to be, now you're going to make me be Mr. Antai.

You keep coming at me with this bullshit. You keep coming at me talking about, Oh, it's a shame that you're not supporting a black woman. She's not black. Now, Mark, you know, let me ask you honestly, Mark, if this had been the other way around, if this had been... Hang on, Lord Jamar. I'll come to you and say, I just want to get their reaction to what we've just played because it's gone viral, as I said. But Mark, you know, if it had been the other way around, if you had a former white president saying,

you've got to vote for Trump if you're white, you'd have gone absolutely nuts. So why is it okay for Barack Obama to order black people to vote for Kamala Harris, given how unpopular she currently is to the extent where Trump is ahead in five of the seven swing states. Why should they? So a couple of things. First, no one should vote for anybody based on identity politics. You should never vote for somebody because they're black, right? Yeah, Obama's wrong.

I mean, I didn't vote for him. I love that. Obama's wrong. Yeah, Obama's wrong. Yeah. We all agree. But we don't all agree, though, because I don't think, though, I think Obama's wrong for several reasons in that video. But Obama's not arguing that you should vote for Kamala Harris because she's black.

He's arguing you should vote for them because you're black. In other words, she best represents your interests. If I were running right, and if I'm a Green Party member, right, historically I haven't voted Democrat. He was playing the race card. He was playing a skin color. card. He was saying if you are black, you have a duty to vote for the black candidate. Yes. You don't. As Lord Jamal rightly said in his furious rant about it, why? Hold on. Hold on. Why should he be told who to vote for? Okay. Okay. First, first of all, peers,

again, you just said I'm bringing in the race card when the question you asked me was, should Obama be telling people to vote for people because they're black? No, I said Obama played the race card, not you. I said Obama did. Oh, then I misheard you. I apologize. I misheard you. I'm wrong. You're right. So to the point, Obama is saying that black people, again, I disagree with them, but let's disagree with them for the right reason. He's saying that as black people vote your interest, don't reject this person. As a black person, you should vote for the person that uplifts the black community. That's her. And don't let your patriarchy, don't let your hatred of women, don't let your this, you're this, you make you not do it. My issue with it is

it frames black people and black men in particular as pathological and people who act against their interests and acts as if black men don't also, it's a historical. Black men actually do vote Democrat. I argue more than they should. So I think it's wrong for lots of reasons. I disagree with Jamar, though, my brother, calling her, and again, I heard a bleep. I've been in the hood a long time. From that context, it sound like you were calling her the B word.

I couldn't see it, but I heard it. I'm not going to vote for that. Blip sounded like the B word. I can't imagine a circumstance where we need to call her that. You know, in real life, in music, and there's just no reason for that. She doesn't deserve that anymore than she just. deserves to be told that she does, she's not qualified to run a dunk and donuts. Those types of comments, I think, are unnecessary, even if you might agree that black people

shouldn't be sheep. How does she disrespect you? By placating to me, by giving me word salads and all kind of nonsense, acting like she doesn't have to answer questions, being the artful Dodger, that's very disrespectful. You think she deserves we call a B for that? Well, listen, first of all, the platform I was on. was a different kind of platform. We was, you know what I mean?

It's a much looser platform. It's more hip-hop-orientated. And if she wants to get down, act like she's black, well, she is black, man. That's the other people. I don't want to interrupt Candace. I know Candace's got stuff to say.

I want to hear Candace. I'm sorry. She is black. And you're being particularly hypocritical, bro. You've been real hypocritical. Let me clear two things up. First of all, Pierce, you had a guest on named VJ or something that said I never voted or something like that.

I don't know where he pulled that out his ass from. But yes, I have voted for Obama the first time around. I got caught her in that nonsense. But also, that comment that you're showing me was not in response to what Obama said. I said that prior to Obama coming out trying to be the father of, you know, black men and all this. type of stuff. Right. But it was a good, it sounded like it went with it. It did. Yeah, but in response, yeah, listen, Barry, you're not our father and we're not going to just, you're not going to shake the finger of condemnation at us and think that you're going to shame us into doing what you want.

We're not, you know, we're waking up as black people right now and we're thinking for ourselves and we're not just going along with the Democratic Party. First of all, I'm a registered. independent, so don't act like I'm waving the Republican flag. But when it comes to leadership and all this type of thing, I don't see why we're trying to give this woman a promotion. She had one job, which was the border. She failed at that. They kept her in the background this whole time.

I saw what they were going to do with her from the beginning. And I don't feel that she's the one. I'm sorry. And by the way, you are absolutely... I know, you are perfectly entitled. I want to bring in Candice who's been waiting patiently. I mean, Candice, this whole sort of premise, and I'm glad Lord Jamar clarified he said that before Obama spoke, although his answer clearly would have been exactly the same.

The response would have been the same because it's all part of the same thing, which is this sort of weird thing, which frankly is quite racist. There's not a way to look at it. That you should judge according to your skin color and feel a duty, a compulsion to do so, seems to me to be racist. It is fundamentally racist. it's something that I think black people are right to be upset about. And then there's also this. You are correct to say that there is nothing about Kamala Harris or Barack Obama for being

frank that is black. I covered this on my show yesterday, went through Barack Obama's history. There is something that is very cartoonish about them working to blackify a politician before they run for office. And what I mean by that is like Barry Sotoro, first eight years of his life grew up in Indonesia. Okay. Then he was. with his white mother and his Indonesian stepfather. He then went to Hawaii, which had a population of just 5,000 black people. 86% of them were in the military

and attended a school that is $31,000 per year. It was all white people. He was raised by his white grandparents, the Dunnons. He's never lied about this, by the way. He then went off to college and had a white dormmate, dated a white woman. There's nothing about Barack Obama's history that gives him, in my viewpoint,

like the stepping ground to be talking to the brothers about the black American experience. If you ever even been to Hawaii, it doesn't even feel like America. Genuinely, it feels like we took this country from an Asian country, took this state from an Asian country. And so when you realize that,

and you see how right before they run, suddenly the story changes, they drop a book and they work to blackify themselves. Obama didn't know his father, his Kenyan father growing up, and now all of a sudden he wants to lean into this stereotype. To me, it feels like they're both wearing blackface. I can't sort through all of Kamala's various accents.

There's so many of them. He's in front of a Latino crowd. Suddenly she's Salina. you know, and she's speaking like a Latina, and then she's in front of a Jamaican crowd, and she's dropping Mon, you know, I can't deal with it. It is way too much Hollywood acting for me. Then she's got the black scent going, and,

mm, girl, what are you talking about? She's in front of a white crowd. She's speaking like a California Valley girl. I don't trust it. Yeah, I just do not trust somebody that slips that quickly through so many personalities. There is nothing about her upbringing, extraordinarily wealthy,

just she was sworn in Congress as an Indian American. Her mother is Indian. She grew up with an Indian experience and was proud of that until she ran for office for president of the United States. And that is something that I am not comfortable with. I do not accept this narrative that she should be speaking about herself as a black woman. It's not okay. And I fully rejected it. Okay. Mark, I just want to play you a quick clip for Kamala Harris talking to Roland Martin listing all the reasons Trump is dangerous for black people. I get your response. He is not looking out for folks when when he was a landlord and would not rent to black families, sued for it, when he took out

a full-page ad in the New York Times against those five teenagers, black and Latino, who were innocent, saying they should be executed, the Central Park Five. When you look at the first black president of the United States and he had birthed their lines, and now you look at black immigrants, legal immigrants, in Springfield, Ohio, and he gets on a debate stage and says they're eating their pets? Come on. This man is dangerous. And my question mark is simply this.

If he's so dangerous to black people, why is it that his popularity is growing, particularly with black men, and Carmelah Harris is falling from where it was with Joe Biden, who was white? Well, I think part of it is because of the steady disinformation and misinformation campaign, Again, I am a critic of Kamala Harris. I'm literally watching her co-sign and underwrite as vice president and on the campaign trail a vicious genocide in Gaza. I ain't got no time to support or defend Kamala Harris on a lot of issues. I think there's a very practical and pragmatic reason to vote for her, and that is to say,

I don't want Donald Trump. And I think a lot of people are making that choice, but the people who are not are often being fed misinformation, including what's just been said. by my dear colleagues here and you peers, you're cracking it up. But a lot of it is just not true. And I'm just going to say real fast. First, first, first, first, I didn't say you said it.

I said what they said. So first, the question of qualification, first, Jamar said, again, she has, she only had one job in this the border. That's just not true, right? That's not the only, that's not the vice president. Vice president's a lot to jump. I disagreeing with the claim that she had one.

job. Not that she didn't have that job. She was given specific responsibility for the border. And now everyone's rushing to pretend she wasn't. The same people who literally called her the borders are on liberal shows. I'm not disagree with that point. They didn't. Okay. What other public job did she have? They kept her in the background for a reason

for a very long time. Who's the president pro temp? Who's the president pro tem in the Senate? President pro temp of the Senate? Kamala Harris. Right. Who's the domestic policy advisor? Kamala Harris. I mean, I can name 10 things that she does other than that, but I don't want to make it about that. My point is that there's lots of reasons to criticize Kamala Harris, but to frame her as unqualified.

Okay. Now, that's the fair point. She's not unqualified. She's qualified. She just might think she's going to make the wrong choices. My next point that she's not black, the next point that she's not. Guys, I need to. Now, Mark, Mark, go down the time. Her blackness is the biggest point.

Go on make your big point quickly. Let's talk about her blackness, please. I'm talking about the black experience. Real quick. Too quick point. Your color. Mark, quick, because mechanics has to go. The blackness point is what's crazy here to me, right?

First of all, the idea that she puts on, they're not personalities. They're codes and black people codes which from place to me. Wait till you hear me talk to my accountant later. Wait till you hear me talk to my agent later. Like, yo, why don't you put me on Pierce? Just kidding. Wait until I talk to the people at the local soulful spot. They all going to be different.

say peace to the gods and earth in New York. It's going to be a different conversation. Black people talk differently. When someone says, that's my aunt. They're not lying because they don't have share blood. Black people call people Auntie. That's fictive tension. That is blackness.

Going to Howard is a black experience. Pledgea. is a black experience. And lastly, Jamar, for somebody who is a 5%er who believes that, and I respect your belief, but to believe that the black man is the Asiatic Black man to make it an owner to the crem of planet, the father of the civilization, the God of the Universe, who came from North America by himself,

from Saudi Arabia. You believe that person is black, but somebody who went to Howard 8? Come on, bro. Okay, I'm going to leave the final word. Final word to Candice before we have to win. Candice. What's going to happen on November the 5th?

Since code switching is normal, since code switching is normal in the black community peers, I'm going to speak to you like this because this would be totally normal if I put on a UK accent. I know where you get that from is your marriage to a brisk. Thank you so much for having me. I can't wait to run for president and just put on a different accent every time I speak to someone else.

That's a perfect way to end it. Lord Jemar, Mark Lamont Hill and Candice Oins. Thank you all very much indeed. I appreciate it.