Piers Morgan Uncensored - "Coming To YOUR Cities" Bondi Beach Terror & Israel 'Blame Game' | Feat Miss Palestine

Episode Date: December 16, 2025

Since the terror attack on Bondi Beach on Sunday, many prominent people including former Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott are pointing the finger at Western governments which rushed to recognise a Palestinian state and supposedly tolerated extremism at anti-Israel protests. Others have argued that, by the very same logic, the Israeli government is culpable for the mass suffering it has inflicted on Gaza. Attention is turning, again, to immigration policies and whether multiculture - and Muslim culture - can ever work in the West. Piers Morgan uncovers the tensions that only seem to be getting stronger, first speaking to Israel’s deputy foreign minister Sharren Haskel about the attack in Sydney, asking her how safe she thinks Jewish people are worldwide following the events that have unfolded since October 7. Uncensored then welcomes New York post columnist Miranda Devine, retired lieutenant colonel and IDF spokesman Jonathan Conricus, journalist and commentator Sami Hamdi, British-Palestinian Novara commentator Kieran Andrieu and Australian commentator Samara Gill. Plus, he speaks to Miss Palestine, Nadeen Ayoub, who he asks about her marriage to the son of Hamas’ most-wanted terrorist prisoner. Piers Morgan Uncensored is proudly independent and supported by: Shen Yun: Visit https://ShenYun.com/PIERS to buy tickets and waive fees. Oxford Natural: To watch their full stories, scan the QR code on your screen or visit https://oxfordnatural.com/piers/ to get 70% off your first order when you use code PIERS. ExpressVPN: Right now you can get an extra four months of ExpressVPN for free. Just scan the QR code on the screen, or go to https://ExpressVPN.com/PIERS and get four extra months for free. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

And that is the worst terrorist attack in Australia's history. Sadly, I was not surprised. Australian authorities have a lot to answer for. Jonathan is a spokesperson for the IDF. No, he's not anymore. He has been directly responsible for much murder of Palestinians, whether it was after October 7th or before. Since you have Palestinian, I can understand your frustration

because you and your forefathers had an opportunity to a state, and you and your forefathers missed that opportunity. I will not allow the tragedy of these innocent victims in Bondi Beach to be politicized. The rise of anti-Semitism has happened long before the 7th of October massacre and before this war. Many people feel that the lives of Jews around the world have been made less safe by the actions of the Israeli government. I simply wonder if you, as a government, have considered the actions you've been. been taken. The atrocity on Bondi Beach this weekend was a heinous anti-Semitic terrorist attack,

perpetrated against innocent people by extremists who hated them for their faith. There's near universal condemnation for that. But as with any tragedy, there is a great deal of disagreement about how we should collectively respond and what it tells us about where we are to culture. Many prominent people, including former Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott, point a finger at Western governments which rush to recognize a Palestinian state and tolerated extremism as they say. see it at anti-Israel protests.

I think there's been an error somewhere for this guy to have had so many guns, but in the end, it's the mindset behind the trigger, so to speak, that's the problem, not the trigger itself. I mean, it's this rampant Jew hatred. It's this sense that somehow it's okay if you're a Muslim to say, oh, Jews should be killed. That's what needs to change. Others have argued that by the very same logic, the Israeli government is culpable for the mass suffering is inflicted on Gaza.

Attention is turning again to immigration policies and whether multicultural and Muslim culture in particular can ever work in the West. We'll debate all of these issues shortly, but we begin with Israel's Deputy Foreign Minister Sharon Haskell, who joins me now. Thank you very much indeed for joining me. Hello, Pierce. I was watching, I was on social media, actually, on Sunday morning

in London, when the first reports began to come in from Bondi Beach. And it says something about the times we live in now, that when I heard that there were gunmen opening fire on people on Bondi Beach, my first thought was, oh God, I hope it's not Jewish people. Because I know there's a lot of Jewish people who live in Sydney, who like to go to Bondi, a lot of people in Melbourne as well. But in fact, most Australian Jews live in those two cities. and very quickly it became clear.

There was a Hanukkah festival, there were families, and that these shooters deliberately targeted them. And it was an appalling anti-Semitic attack on Jewish people because they were Jews. There's no other way to describe what has happened. As a senior member of the Israel government, as a Jew yourself, what was your reaction?

Because I was horrified and I'm not Jewish. Well, I think every single human being, every decent human being should be shocked to score. I mean, those sites, those images are heartbreaking. This is a tragedy. This is a Jewish tragedy, an Australian strategy. It's a, you know, these are children, elderly Holocaust survivors who went to celebrate the holiday, thousands of people from the Jewish community gathering together to light candles, and children to play with driddles and to dance to music.

And those two monsters, those two terrorists, came with hunting guns to hunt for Jews. That's the reality. And it is heartbreaking to see it. And I have to say that not just as a representative of the only Jewish state in the world where we feel responsibility for Jewish community, but this is a personal one as well.

The first images that came to me were from my own friends in Bondi, in Tamarama, in Sydney. I don't know if you know that, Pierce, but I used to live in Sydney for six wonderful years. Australia is one of the most wonderful places. I worked at the Bondi vet. I surfed in Bondi Beach hundreds of times, went to celebrations with the Kabad House.

This used to be one of the most protected places for Jews. This is my community. This is my friends, my relatives. and to get those messages from them and the images, it really shook me to the core. It's absolutely heartbreaking. It's a tragedy. But I must say as well, Pierce,

this is not a surprise. It's not a surprise at all. Well, there have been an increasing number of anti-Semitic incidents in Australia since October the 7th. That is indisputable. There's been a rise of that kind of, obviously, nothing on the scale of this. But there have been enough warning red flags

for people in the Jewish community and in the Israeli government, including Benjamin Netanyahu, to raise alarm bells about what the government in Israel, and you can obviously speak for them now, what they have seen as a lax attitude to this issue by the Australian Prime Minister, Anthony Orbanese, and his government.

So explain why the Israeli government feels, as you have put it, betrayed? Well, it started even in the first few days, you know. Just two days after the worst massacre of Jews since the Holocaust, where we were still mourning and burying our dead who were, you know, entire families were burnt alive, little girls were raped, trying to pick the pieces together. On the 9th of October, there were marches in Sydney

that celebrated that massacre where people were chanting, on the steps of the Sydney Opera House to gas the Jews, fuck the Jews, all these crazy slogans that call for the death of Jews. You know, this have emboldened them to go more publicly and to call for violence and killing

of the Jewish community in Sydney. And then it continued for two years when they called to globalize the Intifada. When you say to globalize the Intifada, The Bondi massacre, this is what it means. It means to bring that hatred, that violent, those massacre, you know, beheading people, what we've seen during the Intifada, and to bring them to London and to Sydney and to New York and to Toronto. And that's what it actually means.

And unfortunately, during these demonstrations and those chance to kill Jews, no one was arrested. These are hate crimes. This is called for death. No one was prosecuted, no warning. So what message do you think that actually sent to those radical people who were sicking and chanting to kill Jews? Let me ask you, if I may, a difficult question. It is a difficult question.

But it's one that I have raised a lot this year since I've become increasingly critical of the Israeli government war strategy in Gaza, and particularly on the civilian death toll, and particularly of children. And I've done that with the context from after October the 7th, I was incredibly supportive of Israel's right to defend itself.

And we'll always defend a country's right to defend itself under such an appalling attack. But there is a belief that in the last year in particular, by going, as many people see it way over the top in what it's done in Gaza, by not allowing foreign journalists in to even see what's happening, with the slaughter, the devastation and so on, that the Israeli government has made Israel

and therefore, by association, Jewish people, more and more vulnerable to hatred, to dislike, to approve of him and so on, as a result of the consequences of the Israeli government actions. Now, to me, there's no defense for that, but nor can it be denied that that may be part of what is happening, is that people are either genuinely enraged by what the Israeli government's been doing to the extent where they believe this kind of thing is justified, which I don't think it is,

or they are using it as an excuse. Do you, as a member of the Israeli government, have any qualms about the scale of what's been going on in Gaza and whether that has in any way contributed to this anti-Israel and conflating into anti-Jewish sentiment around the world? So I want to ask you a couple of questions in regards to that. The first one is, how the hell does murdering an innocent 10-year-old girl in Bondi Beach helping, contributing, has anything to do with that? Well, it doesn't, but that's not my question. My question is whether you, is my question.

Obviously, as I said repeatedly, with respect, with respect, though, listen, that's to me. be clear again. With respect, I didn't say that I believe this myself, but I have raised this as a concern that I believed that the safety of Jewish people around the world was potentially being endangered by the continued way that the Israeli government was prosecuting this war and the way it was doing it. And I simply ask you, as a member of that government, do you, are you comfortable that everything that you've done in the last year in particular has made Jews safe around the world? I'll tell you this, Pierce.

The first thing is that anti-Semitism, okay, and the rise of anti-Semitism has happened long before the 7th of October massacre and before this war. Jews were targeted, synagogues were targeted, Jews were attacked. There's a rise of anti-Semitism and a huge one during the last decades.

Has there's been a massive increase since the seven-year? of October, yes, even, you know, it took us three weeks before we actually set foot in Gaza and set operation to bring our hostages back. And during those three weeks, Jewish communities were already targeted. They were already celebrations of killing of Jews in the streets of Austin, Texas, and Paris and Toronto and so many other cities. And unfortunately, the 7th of October have emboldened the self-confidence of many of those extremists, that it is a possible target to exterminate Jews all around the world. And I'll tell you this.

Yes, the conflict here, it's not about a territory. It is a religious and a cultural conflict at the core of it. And it is radical Islamists fighting against the values that Israel represent. freedom, liberty, democracy, women's right, freedom of expression, and so many more. And this is the real fight. And that's the real reason why it's coming into the streets of Sydney's and the streets of London, whether it's Manchester or Paris or Bondi Beach. That's the real reason. And that's what we really have to have a sincere conversation about. Now, you're talking about Israel and how they operate? Is Israel perfect? No. It's a war.

peers, a war is a terrible thing. It's an ugly thing. We never wanted this war. This war was forced on us on the 7th of October with some of the most monstrous actions that were committed against our brothers and sisters, where they were holding for more than two years, our family members, where they executed in the most horrible way we could ever imagine. But all of that is, see, I would agree with you, but I would agree with you. Listen, as I said at the time, in real time, all of that is outrageous and horrific and appalling. And I make no denial of anything you've just been saying. But the but is an important but, which is that many people feel that by killing over

70,000 people, including over 20,000 children reportedly, by blowing to pieces 75, 80% of Gaza itself, by waging a three-month blockade of much of the food and aid and so on in the early part of this year. But through these actions, many people feel that the lives of Jews around the world have been made less safe by the actions of the Israeli government. So before I let you go, I simply wonder if you, as a government, have considered that potential of the actions you've been taking. So the first thing, look, a war is a difficult thing. It's a horrible thing. There's no war without casualties. It's the most violent way to resolve a dispute.

And that's why Israel have done everything in its capability to try and avoid a war. And this war was forced on us. More so, whenever there was a diplomatic path for Israel to try and reach a ceasefire or a deal to return our hostages to disarm Hamas, Israel always chose this path. It was only when we had no other choice that we chose military military. means. And if you want to tell me there is any war in the world, whether the UK can conduct it or America or or or or Pakistan, I don't know, but they can conduct a war without any casualties, I tell you it's impossible. You know the difference? The difference I would say. No, no, you're talking to, you're talking to somebody who opposed, I led the campaign against the Iraq war in the

UK running one of the papers here. So I disagree with what my own government has done in warfare from time to time, and I've simultaneously agreed with them about other things. But I just feel that I've been increasingly concerned about the safety of Jewish people around the world, and I feel, well, I'm very glad, put it this way, that there is a ceasefire now, and that this has not gone worse. I'll say this. If I look back throughout history,

the Jews were always a symptom for a much deeper problem and this. that has been spreading. Even if you look on the Holocaust and everything that had happened there and how they tried to exterminate Jews, how many countries were conquered in the process? How many people died in the pursuit of the extermination of the Jews by the Nazis? How many people pay the price?

When I look on my own family store, like my mom's from Morocco and a million, almost a million Jews, Arab Jews, from Morocco, Algeria, Lebanon, Syria, Afghanistan, Pakistan, where we were expelled, where there were pogroms, we were murdered, they were, you know, the Farhood programs, where women were raped, and we were expelled from our homelands, you know, who are now, when there's no Jews in those countries, who are now the most persecuted minorities? It's Christians. It's Kurdish.

It's Yazidis. It's all of these minorities. It's a far deeper problem. And what you see here now, with that anthems, it's a question. anti-Semitism, those marches in London or Sydney. And you see them marching in support of terrorist organization of Hamas. You see them waving. Well, I think what I would say.

One second. I just want to finish my point, please. So when you see them waving those flags, you see them also burning the British flag. You see them burning the Australian flag. There's a deep hatred to everything that Israel represents in the Middle East. And this symptom of anti-Semitism is an indication of something far deeper that is happening in Western democracy. This is a war between radical Islam and the values that we actually represent. And so, yes, since the 7th of October, there has been a rise of anti-Semitism.

You've seen our enemies, which many of them, all of them, are extremist terrorist organization like Hamas and Khaz. Bala and ISIS and many others, who have more confident whether to operate in Africa or in Europe or in Australia because of also the actions or the non-actions of Western democracy or of the international community. Okay, look, I've got to leave it there. Sharon Husskel, I really appreciate you joining me. I mean, again, I would simply repeat that what people are concerned about

is that the scale of Israel's response in Gaza has been contributing to the right. rise in anti-Semitism. I don't know if that's correct or not. I know it's what a lot of people fear. And as somebody who has a lot of Jewish friends, who loves Jewish people, who has always supported the state of Israel and always will, that concerns me.

And it's not a justification for terrorism, which is despicable and unacceptable and should never happen. But I do think that it cannot be ignored in the debate is the scale of what Israel's government has done in Gaza has, I think, made it more difficult for Jewish people around the world. But I've got to leave it there. I appreciate you joining me in.

I would say that to all the Jewish community around the world, it must be terrifying when this kind of attack happens on Jewish people because of their faith, as we saw in Bondi, and my heart goes out to all Jews everywhere for what happened. And I want to make that completely clear. Thank you, Pierce. I just want to say, first of all,

it is okay to criticize Israel. We can discuss it. We can do. It's okay. You know, Israel has made a mistake, but not intentionally. If you look on Israel's level, the threshold that we've reached during this war, no other war in urban history or even conflict that you have now have reached the accuracy or the attempt to try and avoid civilian casualty.

Every civilian casualty is a tragedy, but you cannot excuse this war with what is a is happening in the rise of anti-Semitism and the attacks on Jewish communities around the world. I hear you. Deputy Foreign Minister, thank you very much. Thank you. Well, to my panel now, and I'm also joined by the host of Trigger with Samara Gil, Samara Gil, the journalist and commentator

Sammy Hamdi, British Palestinian commentator Kieran Andrew, retired Lieutenant Colonel and IDS spokesman, Jonathan Conrickas, and new post columnist and host of Pod Force One, Miranda Devile. Well, Miranda, great to have you back on Unsensit. Interesting interview I had there with the deputy foreign minister Israel. What do you think of that question? I mean, again, I have to preface it by saying that nothing excuses the disgusting terror attack we saw in Bondi Beach. You're Australian. I'm sure you felt very personally about this.

Does anything that the Israeli government has done in the war in Gaza, do you think, being a contributing factor to the rising anti-Semitism around the world? You've seen their vibrant ads illuminating billboards and train stations for many years. Now it's time you actually saw the show. Shen Yun is celebrating its 20th anniversary, a dazzling run, which has seen iconic performances and iconic venues like the Kennedy Center, the London Coliseum and the Sydney Opera House. Each season tours to more than 200 cities worldwide. You'll see classical Chinese dance, a live orchestra, and stunning animated backdrops,

which bring to life 5,000 years of Chinese civilization. World-class performers in flawless costumes tell a story of myths, legends, warriors, and heavenly realms all set to stunning music. It's been described as inspiring, uplifting, and life-affirming. And if you're looking for an unforgettable gift for your family, I really recommend that you check it out. Visit shenium.com slash piers

to waive all ticketing fees when you order. That's shenium.com slash peers. Well, I mean, this is what we hear, but honestly, I'm not going to entertain any excuses for terrorism. There is no excuse. And once you go down that track of saying, oh, well, you know, they had it coming to them and it's their fault because they're government, you are playing into the hands of the terrorists and rewarding them for the utter mayhem and bloodshed that destroyed a lovely party. in Bondi Beach, killed a 10-year-old girl, killed, you know, 40 other people at least 15, I think, and has left Australia just reeling.

I mean, that is the worst terrorist attack in Australia's history. And it's Sydney and Bondi Beach are just such peaceful places. For a war, a world away to come to the shores of Australia is beyond shocking. and you cannot excuse it in any way. No, I completely agree with that. The complexity, of course, of the narrative around this attack is that many people reacted, as they always do,

when there's an attack by Islamist extremists, by saying we've got to get all the Muslims out. This is the problem. It's about Islam as a religion. There's too many of them radicalised. They hate the West. They want to kill everybody. And then we discover that the hero,

who is one of the great heroes that I've ever seen in any citizen, ever, this guy who just risks his life. And apparently his last words to the people he's with was, I think I'm going to die, please tell my family, I did this to save others or something like that. Incredible. But goes and risks his life, gets shot repeatedly in the process.

He's thankfully, we think, going to be okay. He's in hospital. But he's not just an Australian hero. He's a global hero. And yet he's Ahmed al-Akmed. He came from Syria as an immigrant to Australia. He's a Muslim himself. And so, you know, if you have a kick-all-the-Muslims-out view of this,

well, what do you do about the hero? He saves so many lives, because he's the very type of immigrant from a Muslim country like Syria that many of those who espouse that view would say he shouldn't have been allowed in Australia in the first place. Yes, and that's really the wonderful silver lining on this story is that the heroism of that man. And what a twist.

that he is Muslim. And it's, I mean, it's almost meant to be so that that sort of reflex reaction, which people often have after these terrorist attacks by Islamists, just is softened. And, you know, Australia is a country of immigrants, the highest rate of immigration, in fact, in the world except perhaps Canada.

And there are lots of Muslims there. Australians know them in Sydney. as their neighbours, this guy runs a fruit store, and they have good feelings towards them. And I think that Australians are sophisticated enough now to understand and do understand that the sort of fundamental Islam that is bred in radicalised mosques by radicalised imams

and comes in, seeps in that toxin from the internet, is just as frightening to regular, Muslims living in Sydney going about their life as it is to non-Muslims. So I think that was a good part of the story, I think. It was an amazing thing to watch. And I mean, already several million dollars I think had been raised in a go fund before him, including by leading Jews in America like Bill Ackman, which is an amazing part of this story and a heartwarming part of a terrible, terrible atrocity.

All right, Kieran, Andrea, you listened there to the Deputy Foreign Minister, didn't really want to answer the question I was making, which I kept making sure she understood was not about any justification for the terror attack, but about whether the rising sentiment of anti-Semitism around the world, which is a terrible scourge on society and very threatening to the 15 million Jews

who live on this planet, whether the actions of the Israeli government have made it more or less safe to be Jewish around the world. What do you think? Well, first of all, listening to her was pretty difficult because the vast majority of what she said was a tissue of lies. But as to your specific point, look, I'd make two immediate points, Pierce. Number one, responsibility for what happened, the heinous attack,

it lies primarily with the two individuals, twisted, psychotic, anti-Semitic individuals who carried out that disgusting attack. Let's just say that right off the bat because they are directly responsible for what happened. Then we move to the point you make about the state of Israel. What I would say is this. Those of us who care about all life genuinely and equally,

and those of us who have advocated for the rights of people in Gaza, the rights of Palestinians everywhere, and the right of people in Gaza to not suffer a genocide, have said for a very long time that there is a clear distinction between Jewishness and Zionism, that there is a clear distinction between Jewishness and the state of Israel, and that the state of Israel does not act on behalf of or speak on behalf of all Jews by absolutely no means.

It is the state of Israel and its outriders. Do you mean the government? I mean, because if you say the state of Israel, That is the whole of Israel. Right. So I presume what you're saying is that whatever the current government is at any given time, a bit like the government in the UK

or the government in America, doesn't necessarily represent more than a slight majority of the country. If they win an election, maybe nearly half the country votes against them. So is that what you're saying? Because when you say the state of Israel all the time, you could be implying all of Israel. Well, okay, here we come to a distinction,

Pierce, because I watch your show regularly and I know that you often want to make the distinction. between the government and the state, and that's fair enough. So I'm happy to say for the context in this conversation, the government, but I would just point out to you, and maybe this is a conversation for another time, that the state of Israel has always been a settler colonial project, and that every government has always subscribed to the view that the Palestinians are a nuisance that need to be removed.

But we can discuss that another time. Well, but, Kieran, it's actually this mentality that you just put on the slate. It's this mentality that is not separating the people in the state as to why the terrorist attack. I don't intend to interrupt you. I just want to finish my last point. Finish your point, then Samara can respond. The state of Israel, or let's say the government of Israel and successive governments of Israel,

because I can find you evidence of every single government in Israel saying this, tries to conflate Judaism, Jewishness with Israel. And so when the government of Israel commits acts of genocide, of course, that then opens the ground, opens the space for psychotic, deranged anti-Semites to say, look, even the government of Israel is saying it, they are one of the same. We know they're not one of the same.

But as I repeat my initial point, responsibility lies with the individuals who carried out this atrocity. Okay, Samara. This type of attack doesn't just happen overnight. Australia was at a boiling point because of months, give it years, of unchecked anti-Semitism

that was happening on the streets. The Prime Minister was remaining pretty silent about it, until today. And this is now what's happened. You don't just grab a gun and start shooting Jews like fish in a barrel because you're a psycho and you just feel like it. This is sort of the amalgamation of a really, really dark and insidious Islamic extremism that has kind of come to Australia and started rotting it. I mean, I can't think of a more Australian place for something so un-Australian to happen. And it's just ridiculous that you would say, oh, there's no difference between the state and the people, that is precisely what has happened,

where they have bunched the state and the people together, and now children are dead, Kieran. Can I come back on that just briefly? I'm saying the opposite to you. I'm saying, first of all, that there is a clear distinction between the state of Israel. It is a state and the individuals that live, maybe live in that state or identify as Israeli in the world or are Jewish.

There is a distinction. Your point is that there is no distinction, that Zionism is Judaism and vice. First, sir. So actually... So, actually... Believing in the right to is... For Israel to exist.

I mean, I don't want to go over it again and again, but you keep acting as if it's some sort of horrible tag. There's no right for a state to exist first of all. Let me go to somebody who's actually in the state of Israel, which is Jonathan. Conrick. Jonathan, welcome back to uncensored. Again, let's just make it clear that what happened was one of the most disgusting attacks in recent times on a group of people, including a holocaust survivor, a 10-year-old girl,

innocent Jews going about celebrating Hanukkah on a beach on one of the safest beaches imaginable in the middle of Bondi in Sydney. I've been there. It's a fun, happy, sun-kissed place that will now be forever scarred by what happened there. And they were just intent, this father and son pair of extremists on killing as many innocent people as they can possibly kill. First of all, we've talked a lot in the last two years. What was your reaction on? a personal level to what happened. Yeah. Hello again, Pierce. And hello to my fellow panel members.

I visited Bondi Beach for the first time a few months ago, and it was part of a speaking tour in Australia. I met with Jewish communities in, as you said, very correctly, Melbourne and Sydney, and I spoke with politicians in Canberra. And when I interacted with Jews there, my impression was of people who, who, you know, knew that they were living in paradise, which I think modern Australia is. It's a beautiful country that works well. People are nice and friendly and respectful of others. But the Jews there, many of the Jews, not all of them, but many of the Jews told me that, listen, we feel exposed.

We are afraid to have any external sign of Jewishness. We are afraid when we send our kids to the Jewish school and we are concerned about our safety when we're out and about on the streets and when we are at synagogue. And one of the main reasons is because law enforcement, police officers simply stopped doing their job and politicians gave tailwind to extremists who were taking over the streets in Australia. And I'll remind everybody watching who is trying to whitewash Islamist terrorism, that Palestinians, Hamas supporters, Muslims, and other people were out chanting gasped the Jews in Sydney by the opera building on October 8. And that was before Israel had done anything in retaliation to the atrocities that Hamas perpetrated on October 7. And then

those marches were allowed to continue. Every Sunday in Melbourne, in the lower, parliament office and multiple times in various locations in Sydney and in various Jewish neighborhoods there have been at least 20 attacks hate crimes on Jewish locations in Australia most if not all of them have gone completely unanswered by the Australian authorities and Jewish people what they've been saying is we are exposed our blood is now okay to be hunted and yes there's no empirical connection that proves that these two Islamists or this ISIS-inspired murders, the son and father duo that murdered 15 people, that they were directly linked.

But I think that the atmosphere matters. I think that when the Australian government goes ahead while Israel is fighting a war against Hamas and says, we are going to put our chips behind Hamas and draw a direct connection between October 7 and Palestinian statehood, and we are going to be virtue signaling that we are oh so benign, progressive and developed, and we are going to put our diplomatic support behind Hamas and the Palestinians. That is an enabler for terrorism. And I remember myself saying it in the Grand Synagogue of Sydney, and I remember speaking about it with Australian officials in Canberra saying that, my dear fellow members of a democracy, you are creating

a very problematic situation that is enabling and legalizing and allowing the killing or the targeting of your citizens. They are first and foremost Australians. They are loyal patriots. They pay their taxes. They're proud of their country. They love their country. And I think my response was, sadly, I was not.

surprised. This was in the works. This was coming. And I think that Australian authorities have a lot to answer for. Okay. Sammy Hamdi, let me bring you in here. You know, there's a lot of people who think that there are from one and a half to two billion Muslims, depending on what figures you want to believe. But obviously, a massively larger number of Muslims in the world than the 15 million Jews. And it doesn't take a big percentage of those. of the Muslim population of the world to be radicalized against Jews and want to kill them all

for it to become a very terrifying place quite quickly to be Jewish, the world, and a small place. What do we do about this? I mean, clearly, this father and son, they've been in Australia, they don't appear to have sent too many red flags. The son, apparently a few years ago,

hung out with some slightly dodgy people, but it certainly wasn't like he was running around with ISIS flags or anything. The father was part of a show He seemed to have assimilated pretty well. You know, it's not like it was an obvious thing. It may turn out that there were obvious red flags, but as things look at the moment,

it doesn't appear to be glaringly obvious that they'd been radicalized. What do we do here? What do you feel is the best way to try and stop this kind of radicalization where people just suddenly decide I'm going to be ISIS and kill every Jew I can see? Pais, thanks very much for having me.

I think you've tried to bring the discussion, to the crux of the issue. I think first and foremost, there's no justification for what happened. It's a heinous and disgusting crime that took place and my thoughts and prayers go out to the families of the victims themselves. And I think that when you're, the question that you're asking is, are the events in Gaza influencing in any way whatsoever,

the rise in anti-Semitism and indeed the potential for these acts to take place? Well, that's partly it. I mean, I would say that it's a double-pronged question. One is that, which is the current events of the last two years, have they made it more or less safe to be Jewish around the world? But secondly, this was all going on for a long time before. I mean, ISIS and other groups like it were attacking and targeting Jews

for several decades in this century. It's been a rising tide of anti-Semitism and violence against Jews in the last 20-odd years. So it's two-prong. One, it was going on a long time before this and has the war in a horrible way been a catalyst for it to be accelerated? And I think that you've hit the nail on the head, particularly when you bring up ISIS who've killed far more Muslims than any other religion on this earth, a huge victims, huge numbers of victims that were committed by ISIS.

I remember when ISIS used to say that, oh, we're going to go towards Israel and the like. And there was this famous meme that said, okay, but you guys are in Iraq and Syria, Israel is that way, why do you keep killing all these Muslims over here? The reason why I mentioned is that when you look at the world as it is today, think about what everybody is seeing on their phones on a daily basis. They're seeing six-year-old Sidra with her legs blown off, and the blast of the bomb means that her corpse is hanging on the wall inside Gaza itself. And then we have people coming out and saying, this is justified, this is a war, casualties happen in war. We see Hind Rajab, a six-year-old girl who's in a car desperately calling for help, saying, I'm scared. My family around me are dead. The ambulance comes to rescue her.

The Israelis bomb, the ambulance, and she dies surrounded by the corpses of her family in the cold. You see Riem, a five-year-old girl, being hugged by her grandfather, Ruharroo, the soul of my soul. and everybody is looking at these images one by one and the destruction and Shiffel Hospital where a certain ex-IDF spokesman goes in and makes up a video and tries to show that there is some sort of terrorism that is taking place and the like

that somehow justifies what's happening to the Palestinians themselves. And the reality is that, Piers, this does create... I didn't interrupt you. If you could give me some time just to speak, I've been waiting for a while to speak, my dear friend, you will have the ability to talk, you will have the right to talk.

But if I could just finish, You are lying. All right, Jonathan, that he finished, please. Piers, if you're lying. Yeah, but he's lying. Okay, he can respond. The image. Not something that I can condone.

If you don't mind, just one second. Jonathan, you will have time to speak and you've been here many more times than I have. The reality is that when people are seeing all of these images in America, in Paris, in Berlin, and the like, and they're asking Piers. They're saying, what crime did that child kill? You were with Tucker Carlson, Piers, the other day, who said to you, what crime did that child commit that she should be killed? What crime did the child six-year-old who's now in Doha have been evacuated from, from Gaza, who has three limbs blown off and has only two fingers left in hand.

What crime did she commit, whereby she should have been bombed and been in this particular situation that she finds herself in? And when they turn on Pierce Morgan, unscensate. And, Piers, by the way, I will say, your tweet yesterday was phenomenal when you called him the Bondi hero trying to cut the crossroads

in which people were trying to stoke hatred and the like. But when people come on and they turn on the news and they find justifications for what's happening, they find people saying, listen, it is what it is, you just have to get over it. It's natural for hatred to fester in such hearts that results in a heightened sense

of hatred, not just anti-Semitism, but Islamophobia and hate against people around the world. What was magnificent about what Ahmed al-Ahmad did? He rejected that hatred. He rejected that hatred that festered in people's hearts. He said, this is not the world I want to be part of. This is not the world as it should be. I believe in a better world,

even if it is these wretched individuals who claim to be Muslim, who are shooting Jews who are innocently celebrating their Hanukkah, I reject a world where this is Muslim versus Jew. I believe in a world where there is genuine humanity, and now that is the video that's going viral. That's the video peers that you spread. That's what you called him the Bondi hero.

He's given hope whether Israelis and the extremists on all religions were decimating that hope. When we see those images of those 80% of Gaza destroyed peers, and you're seeing it to the images, and the UN resolutions keep getting vetoed. The ICC says, arrest the war criminals, and we receive news that the British government wants, to defund ICC because they won't remove the Netanyahu arrest warrant.

The ICJ says there is a genocide. Piers, I'll just finish on this point. Peers, we're human. We have hearts. It doesn't matter what color or religion you are. When you see those images, Peers, do they not rip your heart out? Pears, do they not make you weep at what crime did this person commit that justifies this sort of destruction?

And I will say this. I will not allow the tragedy of these innocent victims in Bondi Beach to be politicized. We should do them. We do them a disservice. You can actually, you know what? You can weep, as I did over the appalling scenes on October the 7th. Of course. Of course.

And you can weep at some of the... And the civilian deaths, all of it condemned. Let me finish. And you can weep over some of the appalling images of the suffering of the children in Gaza. And you can weep at the appalling images that came out from Bondi Beach. Well said. It's all appalling. But Miranda, Devine, let me bring you back in here.

This is... I mean, this, the whole of this century... really since 9-11. I know you spent a lot of time in New York. And I was in New York about a week after 9-11. And I remember how traumatic that was for New Yorkers, for Americans. And then we had the war on terror with all the collateral fallout from that.

And now we've got to this dark place where even somewhere like Bondi Beach becomes a massacre site. What's the answer to all this, do you think? Today's show is sponsored by Oxford Natural, makers of the optimum day and optimum night all natural supplements. Thousands of Brits and Americans are already taking them with incredible results. Optimum day boosts your energy and supports weight loss throughout the day.

Optimum night helps you relax and get deep, refreshing sleep. They have countless success stories, including from some very familiar faces. England legend Michael Owen, we lost £40. AFTV's Robbie, we lost more than £100. To watch their full stories and many more, scan the Q. QR code on your screen or visit Oxfordnatural.com slash peers. And here's the best part.

Use the code peers and get 70% off your first order. You're 70% off with the code peers. Well, I just look back on the last two years in Australia and the stories that I'm told by Jewish friends

who no longer feel safe in Sydney, which was a safe haven for many Holocaust survivors and now their descendants and they felt that they had a government that was playing footsies with the anti-Semites. And anti-Semitism is really due hatred. And hatred of anybody is terrible.

And the government of Australia, because of its own cynical, political electoral decisions, because many of their ministers rely on those electorates that are in south, southwest of Sydney, that are mainly Muslim. And so for those reasons, they were loath to do the right thing and stand up for the Jews who were being spat on and assaulted and firebombed

and graffitied. And, you know, as we were just saying, the memorial service, a day after the October 7 atrocity in Israel, we had people invade it and say, gas the Jews, F the Jews, from the river to the sea, you know, globalise the Interfada.

Well, they globalised the Interfada in Bondi Beach on the weekend, and that is not what Australians want. And I think that the government of Australia has been complicit because it has appeased the hatred, and you cannot do that. For instance, Anthony Albanese, the Prime Minister, he was asked and begged by Jews in Australia who were being attacked and fearful for their lives

to have an envoy for anti-Semitism. Well, he did that, but he also at the same time put up an envoy for Islamophobia. It's not Islamophobia that is the problem. Islamophobia is a made-up term to try and soften the anger that people had against the Islamist attacks after 9-11. And many Australians were victims that day and in subsequent terrorist attacks. And yet Australia was still a very harmonious country. And you had people like our hero who lived happily among his neighbours

and felt strongly enough that he wanted to go and risk his own life to save them. So that's the way Australia has been. Islamophobia is not a problem. and yet there we have the government appeasing a small amount of Jew haters. That's all we can call them. And you know, Miranda, I remember after October the 7th, I remember either the Saturday or Sunday, so the day after or the two days after,

walking down Kensington High Street in West London. And there was a mass crowd spilling out into the streets, several thousand people. Many of, and I assume, because it was near the Israeli embassy. I assumed this was in support of the victims. It was the opposite. It was a pro-Palestinian march,

but it was striking the number of pro-Hamas flags that were being brazenly waved around, the chanting that was going on. And I was really shocked to my call that that was happening within 24 to 36 hours in a street near me in London. And that's why I think that those who say this has all been a reaction to what the Israeli government's done, that isn't true either.

A lot of people were waiting for a catalyst to show how they really felt. And if you support Hamas, you just want to kill all the Jews. That's their mantra. Let me bring, I will come to you, Jonathan, but Kieran, you want to come in here. Well, first of all, I want to say very directly to Jonathan, down the line from Tel Aviv there, Jonathan is a spokesperson for the IDF. No, he's not anymore.

Well, he was a very senior spokesperson. But he hasn't been quite some time. It's irrelevant. It's relevant whether he currently is or not. Well, he was a very senior... Go on. Say what you want. No, that's fine. I will. Thank you.

Go on. A very senior IDF spokesperson, which means that he has been directly responsible for many, many deaths and much murder of Palestinians, whether it was after October 7th or before. Because, by the way, and this relates to what I was, wanted to say, Pierce, this conversation is in many ways astonishing.

It's as if history began on October 7th. And I know that many people on this call would like that to be the case. But it's not the case. The reality is that Israel has been slowly destroying Palestine and Palestinian statehood and Palestinian life, much of it completely innocent for almost 80 years. And so to have us here, I mean, we need to take... I think that there needs to be a bit of perspective. It's astonishing to me that we're trying to say

that this unlinked psychopath, anti-Semite and his son in Australia, cruelly and abominably picking off Jewish people on Bondi Beach, is somehow related to people waving Palestinian flags and opposing the genocide that Jonathan helped doctor the evidence of our shoes. But what I would say is, actually, It's not a massive leap, is it? If we tolerate on the streets of London and Sydney and New York, if we tolerate people supporting prescribed terror groups like Hamas,

which a lot of them have been doing, if we tolerate that, you are sending a message to the world that that's okay. They're a prescribed terror group. They are banned in this country. Publicly supporting a mass in this country is a criminal offence. But, Pierce, okay, but you are doing mental gymnastics, with respect. No, not.

Well, you are in the sense that, first of all, I have never, I'm half Palestinian, I've never supported Hamas, never as any member of my family. And by the way, a point I always want to make to you, Pierce, is, well, look what's happening in the West Bank. There's never been Hamas there. So the idea that it's all,

because October 7th happened and Hamas is clearly palpable nonsense. All right. But let me just briefly say, it is that the evidence that people on the streets of London and Sydney and other places are supporting Hamas on mass, doesn't exist. It doesn't exist.

There are the vast, vast, overwhelming share of people showing up on the streets with Palestine flags are totally Jewish inclusive and anti-Zarianist. Jonathan, come in. Yeah, so I think we can cut through a lot of the lies and the allegations, and I think it's really ridiculous to blame me about anything. You try to normalize the terms here and to try to see. cement reality as if Israel has perpetrated any highness crimes. That is nonsense.

Oh, calm off it. It is just a mouth. Nobody believes that anymore. As much of a lie. Nobody believes you. You're talking to yourself. I don't care what you think. I don't care what you think.

I know you don't. And I don't care what you think. And I didn't interrupt you while you were spewing your little nasty lies and whitewashing Hamas and Palestinian terrorists. You know where you think, sir. Spinning your spinning your. tales of victimhood of which Palestinians definitely are the best in the world. But I'll tell you something. I can understand your frustration, since you claim that you

are half Palestinian, I don't know what the other half is, and frankly, it doesn't matter. It's irrelevant, isn't it? But since you say that you're half Palestinian, since you're half Palestinian, I can understand your frustration, because you and your forefathers had an opportunity to a state, and you and your forefathers missed that opportunity. You don't like a And you and your people are the only ethnic group that have been given continuous chances time and time again to make peace, to end the conflict. I've heard it all before. Listen, everybody knows that you're lying about the atrocities. That is what you and your people have done.

Israeli governments have offered Palestinians four peace deals. Four times have Israeli prime ministers made serious proposals. I hope they're paying you well. We're going to be out of energy by the end of this. We've heard this all before. They have told them, here's land, here's a capital, and let's end the conflict. And what have your representatives done? They have said, no, that isn't enough.

We want it all. We want it from the river to the sea. Let me bring you Samara. That is what you and your people continue to ask. Okay, let me bring in Samara. You were born in Melbourne. This is a very personal thing to have happened, I think, to everyone from Australia. It's a small country.

only 27 million people, about a third of the size of the UK, and a 12th of the size of the United States. When you get an attack like this, it attacks the psyche of the country. When you've talked to people back in Australia, what is the mood, you think? Australia will never be the same, peers, genuinely, after this. Look, I mean, anti-Semitism is rife. I'm with you. I don't think all Muslims should be deported tomorrow.

But I think that we have for too long, you know, walked on eggshells around Islamist extremism. And unfortunately, yes, as Miranda says, it has turned up on the shores of Australia. Now, countries like the UAE, Jordan, Egypt, they don't put up with Islamist extremism. They shut it down and lock it up immediately. And the West...

These authoritarian regimes are your models. They're not our models. But I'm saying... For too long, the West has pussyfooted around. A democracy is supposed to follow Abu Dhabi. A democracy is supposed to follow Amman. supposed to follow Cece in Cairo, who has thousands of people in his prisons torturing them, left-right centre, by amnesty and human rights watch.

We have been here to address the Al-Ig bin Zaid who is slaughtering in Sudan. It's supposed to take measures against cancer in society. Before I came into the British people. Before I came into the studio, the FBI. You didn't quote France, you didn't quote Germany, you didn't quote any of these European state democracy. Because they are not, because they are not hardline for an area of brutal regimes. Before I came into this studio. Before I came into the studio, the FBI revealed that they have just foiled four plots of Islamist extremism that were planned for New Year's Eve in Los Angeles.

This is an issue that is wrapping its ugly fingers around the West and it's going to take over if we don't have a hard-lined approach to it. And the reason I don't mention Germany or France or any of those countries is because they also have a soft-touch approach to it. And look what's happened there. It is not guns, as Anthony Albanesey wants you to think, that have infiltrated this. We have the strictest gun laws in some of the strictest gun laws in the world, actually. It is Islamist extremism that plows, you know, cars into Christmas markets, that drives planes into buildings. That is what is rotting the West. That is true.

I mean, I don't think guns are irrelevant to this story because he did have six, the father. And if it turns out, I mean, we have to wait for the investigation. But if it turns out that the son, the dad... They're trying to downplay this. But if he was already on the authorities radar for associating with people who they've sort of been a bit vague about what they mean, but with, you know, dodgy people,

if it turns out those people were part of the radicalisation and his father had six firearms in a country where that is really difficult to do, then I don't think you can rule it out because I always say Australia is a template for how to respond to mass shootings actually. Because after, I mean, I'll bring, let me bring Miranda back in here, because you will know this. But, you know, it's interesting to me.

One comment about it. One second, one second. You know, the UK and Australia were once countries where everybody had a gun. I say this to my American friends. And I say, you know, I waged my war with NRA, it didn't work, right? They don't want to hear from a Brit what they should do with their cultures. It's down to Americans to work it out. And I respect that.

But I do know that Australians and the Brits always used to all have guns. if you go back 150 years or whatever it is. And then we sort of gave them up. And so it's shocking when these things happen. When Dunblane happened in 96, around the same time as the Hobart massacre, both countries brought in draconian laws about guns. And it is surprising in this case, if there was any doubt about this boy when he was 1920,

potentially getting in with the wrong crowd, that his father had six guns. I mean, I don't think that's an irrelevant fact. What do you think? Well, I mean, the draconian gun laws have certainly worked to keep guns out of the hands of law-abiding Australians. But the gangbangers and same people, Islamist, fundamentalists out in South West Sydney, have plenty of guns. Just last month, someone, a cop I know, sent me footage of an AK-47 gunfight, 50 rounds. from an automatic weapon fired into a residential house.

So the gangs have got, you know, it's like New York City. But the last recorded figures, Miranda, there were only 31 gun murders in Australia between June 23 and June 24. That's the official Australian data on gun murders. In the same comparable period of the whole of 2023, according to the Pew researchers, there were 18,000.

gun murders in America, and it's only 12 times the size. So America has 540 times the gun violence of Australia, and in fact, gun violence in Australia, like the UK, is negligible. Well, I'll just say it's like New York City, where we have very strong gun laws. No one can have a gun, you know, under easy circumstances. And yet they're in the Bronx and in the outer suburbs. you have gun battles and murders with guns going on all the time.

So the fact that these terrorists on the weekend in Bondi happened to have six shotguns does not surprise me because it's the criminals in Australia that now have guns. Piers, can I just make a point here? There was a six-year-old boy. Just once, Jonathan, just give me one second. There was a six-year-old boy called Wadiah in America. As a result of all that was being said coming out of Israel,

His neighbor became so radicalized, took a knife and stabbed this boy 10 times and killed him, and the boy was in the arms of this individual. And he said, oh, Lord, what happened? When they talk about Albanese being soft, Albanyi kicked out. A young senator called Fatima Payman, drove her out of the party because she called it a genocide and she called for the recognition of a Palestinian state. Albanese said, there's no way I'm doing it, and he drove Fatima Payman out. Albanese ended up canceling visas for pro-Palestinians who were coming,

trying to show images of genocide to Australia at the whim of an Israeli Zionist lobby. that was coming out and saying, we don't want this in Australia. And when Albanese does all of that, we have three guests here who are now complaining that Albanese refuses to see what the Israelis are doing. But the point that I want to make here is this. Can you ask you a question about the genocide? And it's this. It's a tough, direct question.

If Israel is waging a genuine genocide, that means they want the total elimination of all Palestinians. So far, they've killed 70,000 people in Gaza over a two- and a bit year period. According to Hamas. Right, according to the Hamas from Health Authority, whose numbers have previously been accepted by the Israeli government. So let's put that in context. But that is, out of a population of over 2 million,

is a long way from eradicating a population, and yet they have the means to do it. That's why I've always quibbled with the use of the word genocide, because if Israel's government was genuinely being genocidal, why wouldn't they kill everybody? Can I answer? Can I ask that? say just one thing.

It's a simple question, but I've never heard a very convincing answer. Sure, Piers, what Hitler did to the Jews is a genocide. What he did was a horrific Holocaust. But he kills six million Jews and six million more people. But thankfully, he didn't kill all of them. Thankfully, there were many thousands that survived. Thankfully, there were many of those who managed to tell the tale, to tell us never again so that we would not be able to do it again.

So it's almost irrelevant the point about how many do they need to kill. Hitler didn't need to kill all of them for it to be a genocide. He didn't need to gas all of them to be a genocide. Kieran, here you go. Just briefly before, no doubt, Jonathan wants to come back in. And I do also, Pierce, want to respond to what Jonathan said since he felt bold enough to talk about my forefathers. But briefly, first of all, your definition is slightly obvious.

It's not the eradication of an entire people. It's an attempt to eradicate. Well, not an attempt. No, no, an intent, not attempt. An attempt. It's the two different things. Which the ICJ finds that is probable. But intent means you try and do something.

Which the ICJ find this probable cause. Intent means that you are intent on actually annihilating a population. The definition. There is no international court that has actually ruled. There's no intention. Sorry. The definition of genocide that legal scholars go by says is an attempt to eradicate a people in part or in whole. And of course, intent, you're right.

intent is a part of that. Now, there's plenty of intent, evidence of intent on the part of Israel's political class. We don't even need to go in Montreal. No, there isn't. No, there isn't. Oh, come off it, Jonathan. You are bad at lying, my friend.

You need to go back to lying school. There is propaganda, and there's nonsense, and there's whitewashing from people like you, but there's no evidence of it. And then you can come back and tell all the porkies you like. Yeah. You just want to say this for half an hour now. You've been just saying for half an hour.

Jonathan, notice everybody watching this, notice how Jonathan immediately tried to pivot away from the substance of a conversation, which is the atrocities in Australia. And immediately tried to make it about my home now, my forefathers, all about nothing about it. It's because he's trying to capitalize on these heinous murders in Australia. And I think it is nothing less than disgusting that you would come on air and try and do that. on you. You're a very bad liar. All right. Last word to Jonathan. Yeah, right. Listen, you don't even, you're not even worthy of a comment. But I think if you go back to the topic at hand of the Islamist terrorism in Australia,

I think we're asking, we've been asking questions, some of them relevant, I think, but I think we should be listening to what's coming out of the grand mosque in Sydney. And what main imams are saying and preaching on Fridays and in special sermons. and what they're saying to their believers. They condemn Bondi categorically. Some of them are. Say it. Say it.

They're condemning Bondi. Say it. They are condemning Bondi. They are standing with their Jewish brethren. Some of them are. Say it. And some of them very clearly are not. Show us the evidence.

Who is he? And if I'll just be allowed to finish a point here before you jump, I'll just want to make a point here because I think this connects with us having a little bit more clarity and honesty about the situation. To be clear, I do not think that every Muslim is. to blame for this. That's a ridiculous thing to say. I don't think that Muslims as a whole are a problem or the problem. I think that unchecked extremism where local authorities are either too weak or too cowardly or too ignorant to recognize, that is the problem. And that's a problem

that permeates in England, in Germany, in Sweden, in France, in Australia, in Canada, and in some parts of the US. It is the complete lack of understanding what extremist Islam is. Two billion Muslims live in peace. Two billion Muslims live in harmony. Two billion Muslims live alongside Christians and the Jews. Muslims did not commit the Holocaust. Not imposed a party. Muslims didn't slaughter bait. Muslims didn't do the genocide in Rwanda. Muslims didn't do a part in South Africa. Muslims didn't commit the Holocaust. Muslims sent ships to Spain to bring Jews to safety when they were being slaughtered over there. after the Holocaust Jews came to the Muslims in Palestine

and said, don't do to us what Europe did. Be fair, Jonathan. Okay, I've got to leave it there. Miranda, I know you've got to go. Keep writing your great columns. Must read in the New York Post whenever you drop. One of the best riders in America. And I really appreciate you all joining me.

Thank you very much. Thank you. Christmas is peak time for online shopping sprees, but that also means it's peak time for hackers and data brokers who steal the information online. The solution is very simple. Use ExpressVPN to shut them down. Top-tier encryption keeps your activity hidden, even on dodgy public Wi-Fi, which is perfect for holiday travel. You can set your location to 105 different countries, which lets you access

content from all over the world. Users save hundreds on streaming and even plane tickets with ExpressVPN, all for $3.49 a month. It's a no-brainer. I use it, and you should too. Right now, you can get an extra four months of ExpressVPN if you go to ExpressVPN.com slash Peers. That's ExpressVPN's lowest price ever, plus four extra months of service. Just scan the QR code on the screen or go to ExpressVPN.com slash peers. Well, joining me now is the first Miss Palestine to compete in the Miss Universe competition, Nadine Ayub. Nadine, welcome to Unsensored.

First of all, your reaction to the appalling terror attack. in Bondi Beach? My reaction to what happened in the Bondi attack is extremely, I feel so much for what happened to these people. And no people should have to face any form of violence. I condemn the attacks. I condemn any form of discrimination or violence. You were born in Michigan.

Your parents had moved there with your family from Palestine so your brother could get medical treatment. Then they returned to Ramallah, where you live where you lived until you were six, then you moved back to America again, then you relocated to Canada. So you moved around a lot when you were young, but obviously spent time in Palestine, time in America.

Yes. Where are we with the aftermath of this war? There's a ceasefire, thank God at the moment, but we don't know whether it's going to last or not, but this is just a reminder of this long-running, near eight-decade saw of the... Israel-Palestine conflict, and obviously America's been heavily engaged with Israel on this. Where do you feel we're going with this? Are we going to get to a place where there is a two-state

solution where Palestinians can live side-by-side with Israelis in peace, or is this looking further and further away? I really hope that there will be peace, that there will be a solution, a possible two-state solution, or some way where Palestinians can really just have their human rights and human dignity. And I think the root cause of this is the occupation is. That is truly where the root cause is. You know, I have, like you've said, I've lived in the States. I am an American citizen as well as a Palestinian citizen. I've lived in both places. I was raised a big portion of my life in Palestine and have lived there. And I do go there very frequently. And I work with women and

children there through my foundation, helping them, helping them to reach their dreams and really help them not only just, you know, I don't want them to just be focusing on the suffering and pain. I want them to really focus on innovation and help themselves and grow as people. And you have so many Palestinians that want to do that. They want to learn. They want to have an education. They want to be able to freely move from one point to one point and go to their universities, be able to innovate, be able to connect to each other. But unfortunately, There are so many challenges, including having to go through checkpoints, having to go through, there are illegal settlements in the West Bank where we're unable to even move freely.

We don't even have access to an airport. We have to use a different airport in another country to actually be able to access our own country. And so these things that are caused by the occupation really set us back in not only our wanting to survive and ability to survive, but also to thrive and innovate. and a big part of a country's economy, a big part of its social stability is for people to be able to dream and live and innovate, and we are stripped from that. And even something as simple as me going to a beauty competition has been so difficult to do. And it has been years and years of struggle to be able to just go to an international beauty competition. And this is me, this is someone who has the privilege, who can travel, who has lived in the States, has lived in Palestine, able to move around freely to some degree, and I still have my struggles. I still have a lot of

struggles to be able to even reach my city, Ramallah. What was it like representing Palestine in a misuniverse because it's not happened before? What was the experience like for you? It was an amazing experience in the sense that I was so proud to raise Palestine's voice, to show that we're not just about our struggle and pain, but we're so much beauty and culture, And I always say that culture and beauty, it's the window to really connect to the world and people. And I feel that the media has really dehumanized us. And this is actually a narrative that has been made by a lot of international media that goes for more propaganda to show Palestinians in a more inhumane way and to dehumanize us so that we're not seen as humans.

And so in just acts and, you know, stripping us of our human rights can be justified. And for me, the way that I fight this, the way that I use my voice for my people, and, you know, it's a way to resist through beauty, a soft type of power, to say to the world that, no, you know what, we have a lot to offer. We have so much culture and heritage. And that's what I did there. I did it through my presence, through existing, through me, through not only Nadine, by carrying all of Palestine's voice,

the children, the women who want to dream through their voices and through their art. What reaction did you get from the Arab world? I mean, I'd imagine it was a mixture of people celebrating what you were doing, people who didn't care what you were doing, but some people maybe on the more conservative side, more conservative Muslims, perhaps, who were angry about you appearing in a beauty contest

representing an Arab country. I imagine you've had all of these reactions. What was it like to be on receiving end of so much critique? Well, peers, you may be surprised, but I actually did not get any, I really didn't receive any hate or anything from conservative Muslims. Right. Right.

No, no, I wasn't affected at all by that. And I didn't see it, to be honest. I mean, I was focused so much on the positivity that I got from then. And I think they really saw it as a way through, through the way I represented, of course, because I did respect my culture. I did respect the way that they view things. And, you know, there's nothing wrong with a culture that views women in a way where, you know, we should be more modest or we should be somehow, you know, respectful of this. This is a way that they respect women. And I respect that as well. And actually, I felt very empowered,

empowered respecting my culture. And I think they saw that and they truly respected that and they supported me and they saw it definitely as a way where I put Palestine on the map and that I was able to show the culture, the designs, the history in such a way

and then through my foundation you know, I've been really showcasing the stories of Palestinian women and children who want to show a different side of Palestine. Of course there were some things within the Miss Universe organization that were questionable and this caused a little bit of confusion, not only for me, but other contestants.

And I was surprised because, you know, I thought that maybe going onto a platform like Miss Universe, it will be a place where there is more justice, you know, because, you know, I'm coming from a place where there isn't so much justice because of the occupation and a lot of our human rights being taken away. But going there, you know, it was a chance to finally, it was a chance to finally actually speak and be out there. But there was a lot of questionable things that happened. One of the things that happened as a result of your appearance was you became heavily scrutinized by parts of the media.

The New York Post had a whole front page about you, which I want to discuss with you. It revealed that you had been married and had a child with the son of somebody who is considered by America to be a conviction. terrorist. This is, you were previously married to Sharaf Barguti, the son of the Fatah leader, Marwan Barguti, who is currently serving five life sentences in Israel for terror attacks that kill five people in 2001 and 2002. You had a son with Sharaf, Marwan's son, who was also named Marwan. Now, when this appeared, the day before, you said, I'm proud to be connected to

Nelson Mandela of Palestine. He calls for peace between Palestinians. He's a leader of Fatan, not Hamas. He's not a terrorist. Terrorist is a colonial word. Mandela was called a terrorist when he was in prison. Then he was a hero. Hundreds of celebrities recently came out

in support of him being freed from prison. He can create peace with Israel. I'm no longer with Sharaf. We have a good relationship, though. We share a son and we co-parents. So, you know, that must have been a big thing for you to go through, to be the front page of a major newspaper in America.

purportedly having this direct link to a convicted to terrorist. I've seen your explanation. Again, what was the reaction to that story and the revelation that you had that connection to Marwan Barguti? Well, first, I want to say that, you know, I don't usually talk about my personal life, and this is something that I always felt it's everyone's personal choice to talk about their personal life or not.

and this is a right of every single human being. But since I don't have that right as a Palestinian, unfortunately, I will talk about it. And of course, I will say that I am proud of our Palestinian leader. I want to say that Marwana Balutti is not a terrorist, and he is actually recognized by many international figures, peace figures as the Palestinian Nelson Mandela. In fact, his release campaign, or his campaign to be released,

was actually launched from Robin Island, where Nelson Mandela Sal was, prison cell. And he has the support of the Mandela family. He has the support of peace symbols, or at the time when it was launched by Desmond Tutu, Jimmy Carter's, Angela Davies. And right now, recently, actually, 200 celebrities and public figures have signed and have campaigned for his release. And he is someone that actually advocated for peace. He is a peace symbol. In fact, during his trial, he kept on saying, I am a man of peace, I go for peace. He did not even identify his trial to be legitimate or factual or actually legal.

And it isn't. According to many international human rights organizations, even Jewish and Israeli organizations, they see his trial as illegitimate because it is a military corps. How can the occupier actually have a trial for those that they occupy? They have a 99% conviction rate. So it's obviously unfair, even authoritative governments. Has he been responsible for killing people? No. He has not.

There is no trial that has proved that. And he actually does not identify for the trial to be correct, and he does not face it as to be legitimate. I mean, there's been a trial. He just doesn't accept it. Of course, but the trial is from a military court, a military court that's occupying a people. And peers, let's look at the statistics, 99% conviction rate. And when you're saying 99% conviction rate,

that means you know that the people going in are going to be wrongfully convicted. There is no court in this world that has a 99% conviction. I mean, look, I don't know Marwan Baguuti personally, never met him or talked to him, but I do know there are many, many Palestinians who believe he may be the person that should lead the Palestinians out of this horrendous war. to affect that, he'd have to be released, obviously. But if that was to happen, do you think he would make a good leader of the Palestinians?

I think he would make the perfect leader. And I will tell you something. After the Oslo Peace Accords, he was actually open to talking to Israelis, and he was having discussions with Israelis and the Israeli government to call for peace and to have a two-state solution. But then the illegal settlements in the West Bank continued

and then the Intifada broke out. And so he didn't, he wasn't able to continue this. But he is someone that is extremely educated. He actually even teaches in prison. I don't like to call it prison honestly because it is a way to have hostages. It's just a military term to call it prison. But it is a hostage place for Palestinians. And he helps Palestinians in prison be educated.

He's helped them even have their master's degree, their PhD. He is a doctor himself. And he really advocates for women empowerment. I have not personally met him, by the way. I have shared letters with him. And the one thing he was always, always so keen on telling me about is to continue my education and to always be active in my community and to be always active in a positive way as a woman.

His wife actually is the one who launched his campaign. And she is a lawyer, and he was always pushing her to continue her education. His family is extremely, extremely, people who have not seen their father for 23 years, you know, since he's been locked up. They haven't been able to touch him, hasn't been able to see him. Can you imagine how many other Palestinians also feel this way? You know, they have stripped families of a male figure. They have stripped families of an extremely important base in the family to have a male figure,

a father. This has stripped our society, our social stability. And in order to have a fair society, we need to first take care of the family. Imagine how many families don't have their fathers. Now, going back to Marwana Barthi, he is definitely a leader that everyone agrees for him to be the perfect Palestinian leader. And he is the only one that actually would win an election over Hamas. And so you have to question, then, why does Israel want to keep him in prison? When you have all of these facts, when he is saying that I want to call for peace and I want to call for a two-state solution, why is he still in prison?

Is it that he, does he threaten the status quo? Does he threaten that possibly there could be peace if he is out? Do you condemn Hamas unreservedly for what they did in October the 7th? I do condemn any violence and anything that creates any discrimination against anyone. Of course, I am against violence, and this is actually against our Palestinian values. And I want to remind everyone that, you know, after the World War II, we Palestinians took them in our homes. We, Jewish people, are brothers and sisters. And this is not a war between Judaism and Islam or Christianity.

is not a war between religions. Palestine actually is the Holy Land of the three Abrahamic religions. Bethlehem, where Jesus is born, is in Palestine. So, you know, we have some of the most ancient Jewish and Christian civilizations in the West Bank and Gaza. And did you know that the Church of Sepular, the keys of the Church of Sepulor in Jerusalem, you know who holds them? The Christians give them to two Muslim families. They are the ones who hold the keys to the Church of Scepular. Why is that? If there is actually this war between religions, why do these things exist?

Why are these the facts that exist here? We took them in. This is not, there is a very big difference between Judaism, Zionism, and even anti-Semitism or Semitism. But I feel like the narratives really create this confusion, complexity around these definitions to kind of play with a narrative. for political ideologies. Yeah, I think that's probably right. Let me just end with another war that's been raging,

and that involves the Miss Universe contest itself. You didn't come in the top five, although many people thought you were one of the favorites to win. The ones who won, Miss Mexico won, and Miss Thailand was runner up, those are two countries, as you pointed out, who are the owners of the competition. A week after there was a walkout by Miss Mexico, two judges resigned,

one of them accusing the composition of being rigged. The whole thing looks like it was a stitch-up. Do you think you were robbed? I don't want to say that I was robbed. I'm not a victim, you know. I'm very proud of what I have accomplished. I've really been able to raise Palestine and do a lot of great things with the national costume

and the way I represented my culture. But what I can say is that there was a lot of unfairness and injustices, of course. and there was a lack of transparency in the judging. And I will tell you this, there were a lot of judges that resigned days before the competition. And the only Arab judge, Lebanese, judge named Omar Harfouche, also resigned because he said that the placements were already chosen. The top 30 was already chosen. They already knew who won. This was declared by the judges.

And, you know, it's interesting because a couple days before the finale, I noticed that they had on board an Israeli judge, and not that I have anything against any human being, but I just found that a little bit weird that an Israeli judge that doesn't really have anything to do with a humanitarian project was judging the Beyond the Crown, which was the humanitarian social responsibility project. And of course, my social responsibility project

was about the Palestinian women and children who want help and to raise their voice and everything. So it was all very weird, like the way things happened, and I definitely felt an uneasiness. And it's interesting, even the whole incident with Miss Mexico at the beginning of the competition where she walked out because the organizer criticized her was also very strange because out of all of the 122 contestants that were there, he pointed out to her to criticize. So it wasn't like she stood up by herself and there was just an argument. like he actually went and pointed and said Miss Mexico and started criticizing her in front of everyone where she had to actually respond.

Now, of course, I will never ever blame or put anything on any woman. I think that what she did and how she left was very important, and it was a way to show a huge stance on women empowerment, and that's why I left. But the way things happened, the system, what was planned, the behind-the-scenes aspect, was very questionable, the transparency.

Where are the scores? Like, I knew that I got one of the highest scores in the closed-door interview where they interviewed us about our humanitarian work or social work and how we speak. And I know that I got one of the highest. And this was 60% of the judging. And so it's very interesting to me how, you know,

I didn't, of course, I didn't get to top five to be able to speak. Yeah. Well, you would have got my vote. I wasn't a judge, unfortunately. I've got to say, this universe organization has rejected claims of judges who quit citing unfairness, saying no external group has been authorized to evaluate delegates or select finally. So that was their official position. But it all looks pretty fishy to me.

Nadine, thank you very much indeed for joining me. I appreciate it. Thank you so much, Pierce. Pierce Morgan & Sensen is proudly independent. The only boss around here is me. If you enjoy our show, we ask only one simple thing. hit subscribe on YouTube and follow Piers Morgan Unsensored on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. And in return, we will continue our mission to inform, irritate and entertain. And we'll do it all for free.

Independent Unsensored Media has never been more critical, and we couldn't do it without you.