Piers Morgan Uncensored - ‘DISGUSTING!’ Trump Scolds Rob Reiner + Bondi Beach Terror With Tony Abbott

Episode Date: December 15, 2025

Yesterday, father-and-son Islamists killed 15 people in a chilling antisemitic terrorist attack on Jewish people celebrating Hanukkah on Bondi Beach in Australia. The knee-jerk reaction of many on social media was to blame all Muslims. But it very quickly emerged that one of the heroes of the day was Ahmed al-Ahmed, a 43-year-old Muslim fruit seller who risked his own life to save countless others. It should be possible to condemn antisemitism without resorting to Islamophobia - and say that you disagreed with some of what Charlie Kirk said or believed without grotesquely celebrating his death, as so many did. That was the position of Hollywood legend Rob Reiner, who - along with his wife - was murdered in horrific circumstances this weekend. President Trump has since posted a tasteless statement talking about the director’s ‘Trump Derangement Syndrome’. In this age of tribal loathing, how can society possibly get any better? Joining Piers Morgan to discuss is The Young Turks’ Cenk Uygur, Keeping It Real host Jillian Michaels, host of Democracy-ish Wajahat Ali, pro-Israel journalist Emily Austin and Unfiltered host Roland Martin. Plus, Piers speaks to former Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott to discuss the horrific attack in Sydney. Piers Morgan Uncensored is proudly independent and supported by: PDS Debt: Get started with your free debt analysis in just 30 seconds at https://PDSDebt.com/PIERS Oxford Natural: To watch their full stories, scan the QR code on your screen or visit https://oxfordnatural.com/piers/ to get 70% off your first order when you use code PIERS. ExpressVPN: Right now you can get an extra four months of ExpressVPN for free. Just scan the QR code on the screen, or go to https://ExpressVPN.com/PIERS and get four extra months for free. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

That just crosses every line of just basic human decency to me. Rob Reiner was murdered last night. Whatever side of the divide you're on, this is just unacceptable. I don't care what you think of that war. There is no justification. There's no reason for mowing down Jews. But the Israelis say, no, we're allowed to kill 20,000 kids. And no one should be able to condemn that.

But every Muslim on planet Earth have to condemn these lunatics as if these lunatics represent us. I think it's very immoral that you couldn't just take one conversation about a shooting in Australia without comparing it to a war in Gaza. 90% of Muslims are peaceful and lovely and amazing. But if 10% wants to bring down the West, you're looking at a heck of a lot of people. Jillian, I've had to sit here. I'll take it. And listen to the other back and forth.

Can I please make this point? There seems to be this struggle inside the soul of Islam between those who believe in live and let live and those who believe in death to the infidels. Every generation tends to think that our moment in history is as bad as it's ever been, that the struggles, divisions and tensions that we're wrestling with right now are uniquely pivotal.

It's obviously not true, but that doesn't mean that everything is always getting better either. and sometimes, however temporarily, they are very clearly getting worse. Yesterday, father and son Islamists killed 15 people in a chilling anti-Semitic terrorist attack on Jewish people celebrating Hanukkah on Bondi Beach in Australia. The knee-jerk reaction of many on social media was again to blame all Muslims, but it very quickly emerged,

but one of the heroes of the day was Ahmed al-Ahm, a 43-year-old Muslim fruit seller, who risked his own life to save countless others. You're perfectly entitled to have a view that every immigrant from a Muslim country should be kicked out of the West. You have to reckon with the fact that it's divisive and reductive because people like

Ahmed al-Ahmad, who is a Syrian immigrant to Australia, are exactly the type of people we should want in our countries, no matter which God they pray to. It should be possible to loathe and condemn anti-Semitism without resorting to Islamophobia. Does it as it should be possible to say BLM went much too far

without being overtly racist. and that you disagreed with some of what Charlie Kirk said or believed without grotesquely celebrating his death as so many did. That was the position of Hollywood legend Rob Reiner, who, along with his wife, Michelle, was murdered in horrific circumstances this weekend. When you first heard about the murder of Charlie Kirk, what was your immediate gut reaction to it?

Well, horror. Absolute horror. And I unfortunately saw the video of it. And it's beyond belief what happened to him. And that should never happen to anybody. I don't care what your political beliefs are. That's not acceptable. That's not a solution to solving problems.

And I felt like what his wife said at the service that the memorial they had. was exactly right. The default position in the age of social media is tribal loathing. We've seen plenty of it on both sides this weekend, just as we saw it after the National Guard terror attack in D.C., and again, with the fraud scandal in Minnesota. We're seeing it in some of the reactions to the death of Rob Reiner,

including an extraordinary statement just a few minutes ago from President Trump. It might make people feel better, but they'll have any interest in living in a contented and genuinely united society. The truth is, they're making it a lot worse. Well, join me to debate this, founder and CEO of the Young Turks, Cheng Yuga, the host of Keeping It Real, Gillian Michaels, host of Democracy Ish, Maja Haleigh, and the journalist and host of the Emily Austin Show, Emily Austin,

and Rolla Martin host of Unfiltered. Welcome to all of you. Look, I was going to start with the horrific attacks in Australia, and we'll come to those, obviously. But as we've come on air, Chek Yuga, Donald Trump has gone on his true social platform to talk about Rob Reiner. Now, I interviewed Rob Reiner on this show three months ago.

And aside from what he just said about Charlie Kirk, as we just heard, which was, I thought, extraordinarily gracious, given he politically disagreed with almost everything Charlie Kirk stood for. Notwithstanding that, Rob Riner just got brutally murdered, along with his wife, it appears by their son, who's had many years of battling drug addiction and homelessness, and appears to have gone crazy and stabbed them both to death in the most barbaric of circumstances. It's now under arrest with a $4 million bail.

Donald Trump has just posted this. A very sad thing happened last night in Hollywood. Rob Reiner, a tortured and struggling but once very talented movie director and comedy star, has passed away together with his wife, Michelle, reportedly due to the anger he caused others through his massive, unyielding and incurable affliction with a mind-crippling disease known as Trump derangement syndrome, sometimes referred to as TDS.

He was known to have driven people crazy by his raging obsession of President Donald J. Trump, with his obvious paranoia reaching new heights as the Trump administration surpassed all goals and expectations of greatness, and with the golden age of America upon us, perhaps like never before. May Rob and Michel rest in peace.

You know, I've got to say, Chang, that just crosses every line of just basic human. and decency to me. Rob Reiner was murdered last night by his troubled, unhinged son. And to make political capital... And what angers me about it is there was all the outrage

from Trump supporters, rightly, when the left mocked Charlie Kirk after he was murdered. And I thought we'd reached a kind of consensus that whatever side of the divide you're on, this is just unexceptive. that when people get murdered, you just show basic respect. And I, you know, it's just happened as we came on air.

I just thought we've got to start with this because when you're the most powerful man of the world, listen, everyone knows I've known Trump a long time. But this is one of those times when many times he's been like this when big public figures have died. I remember it with John McCain. I remember it with Colin Powell. And each time I just wince at the lack of basic decency. What is your reaction to that? Well, you saw that I came on here, and I was broken harder when Charlie Kirk was killed,

and I condemned the people celebrating it, because, my God, if you're part of the peace movement, you're on the left, et cetera, we're supposed to be for nonviolence more than anybody else. So, and that was disappointing at that time. And then Donald Trump, among others, said it was the most outrageous thing they'd ever seen. for him to do it now to Rob Reiner. I mean, and for what? For what? I mean, did this guy advocate for some heinous thing?

Not at all. And here's what I want people to understand about Rob Reiner. So he was obviously an enormous figure in Hollywood. Some of the movies that we all love, like Stand By Me, when Harry Met Sally, et cetera, right? But on top of that, here's something that no one could argue with. Rob Reiner was a true American patriot. He loved this country.

Now, whether you agreed with him or disagreed with him on any issue, he's a guy who put his heart into this country and always tried to make it better. You could see patriots like that, whether they're on the right or the left, who deeply care about their fellow man. And Rob Reiner was definitely one of those people. He was the best of us. And to die in such a tragic way, and then to have the president of the United States rub it in and somehow make it about himself. Look, I'm not, I can get angry at Donald Trump. We've all been angry at Donald Trump. But if you're on the right, more than anything else,

you should just be deeply disappointed. Is this what you wanted? Is this the ha-ha, you're dead kind of mentality that you wanted? It sounded like after Charlie died that you really, really didn't want that, that you thought it was a terrible thing to do. So please don't make excuses. Yeah, look, that's the point, Gillian, that I would make, is it's going to be very interesting to me.

what people on the conservative right in America say by way of their reaction to what Donald Trump has said here. Because if there's any support for this from MAGA, from his supporters, his friends, from anyone, then it flies completely in the face of that whole debate after Charlie Kirk, when so many on the left behaved disgustingly. You know, I remember calling it out at the time.

And then here, you know, the idea that he was murdered because of something to do with his views of Donald Trump, which is complete nonsense. You know, it's, I'm really, I'm not just disappointed. I'm angry with it, you know? I completely agree with you and Jank here. I will say that when I woke up and learned about this, it was on Brandon Tatum's Instagram,

and he actually showed the clip of you talking to Rob Reiner. So my hope is that any reasonable person on the right or the left finds political violence disgusting, any support of it disgusting. And I'm with both you and Jank. There's zero pushback over here. I'm extremely disappointed in the way Trump. I mean, it's not even, you know, there's not even a suggestion as political violence in this case, right?

We don't know why the son did this other than... Well, either way. If Trump was trying to imply that it was because of Trump derangement syndrome, any violence of any kind is... I don't think you are reprehensible. I'm not quite sure. exactly what he was trying to imply. But I'm disappointed by his response.

I don't, I have yet to see anybody on the right endorse that statement or celebrate the death of Rob Reiner. I certainly hope we don't. And I promise you that I would absolutely condemn anybody who does that. Right. I mean, let me bring Wajahe in. I want to play a clip. It's another clip from the interview I did with him.

I spoke to him for 45 minutes, literally in mid-September. It was a great interview. And I was very struck, actually, by the more mollifying tone that he took throughout this interview about Trump, who he has been very critical of in the past. There's no question. He's ranted away about Trump, like many in Hollywood have done. But in that interview, he struck a very different tone. Here's him talking about Trump and the fact the left kept calling him Hitler. Senator Ted Cruz has come out and said that people should stop using.

the Nazi rhetoric. And I feel very strongly about this. I think that you can absolutely go after Donald Trump in an aggressive way. But calling him Hitler or calling his supporters Nazis, I think crosses every acceptable line. It doesn't get you where you want to be. I don't really know very many things

that I agree with them on. But I also feel that if you call name calling like that, it's not going to get you. you what you want. You have to rally people around the things that you agree with that are in disagreement with Donald Trump. And to me, the one area that, again, we both agree on is the freedom of speech and in the Constitution First Amendment. You know, there's an irony there with Jaha about the name calling, because I don't know what Donald Trump thinks he'll achieve with this rant about Rob Reiner as his body

is still warm from this brutal murder, but whatever he thinks it will achieve, it will only, I think, anger and disappoint a lot of Americans, if not all Americans. And I just don't understand why he would use his gigantic platform so soon after someone is murdered to do this.

The harsh truth is, this is who Donald Trump is. This is who he has always been. He's been cruel. He's been vulgar. He's lacked empathy. I mean, you just saw this right now. I'm glad you brought it up. because I read it right before I came on your show.

You know, Rob Reiner and his wife, it seems that they were brutally and tragically murdered by their son, who apparently had mental health issues and drug problems. He was a beloved director, and you're seeing Donald Trump right now, who is a president of the United States folks. He's the commander-in-chief.

He's the representative of our country. And you just hope any president, Republican, Democrat, doesn't matter what they say is this is a terrible tragedy, thoughts and prayers. Simple as that. But we've seen Donald Trump just even recently with Erica Kirk, I was on your show, and we all praised it was a consensus

amongst the panel that when she forgave the alleged shooter, Tyler Robinson, we all said that was very brave and a beautiful thing to do at the Arizona rally. What did Donald Trump do right after she said it? He goes, I don't forgive. I'm not as forgiving. Why would you say that?

And then also after he survived the assassination attempt, if you remember at the RNC, peers, you know, he had that patch on his ear. They gave him a script. He was supposed to be decent. kind, you know, meditative for the first 20 minutes. And then he mocked and ridiculed Paul Pelosi, who survived an assassination attempt by David DePape.

So this is who he is. And Pierce, if I may say, he's been like this for 10 years. I've been saying it. Chang's been saying it. Roland's been saying it. For everyone waking up today, where have you been? This is who he is. Well, where I've been, I've always called it out

when he's done it after people die. I think there's a particularly distasteful aspect. and I'll bring Emily in here, you know, when people have just been murdered, whether it's Charlie Kirk, whether it's Rob Reiner, it doesn't matter to me what their politics are. When they've been brutally murdered, the only decent, civilized human thing to do is to just be respectful. Or do nothing.

You know, if your genuine feeling is what he's just ranted, well, don't say it. Right. I feel like as the president of the United States, he does not, with all due respect, have any obligation to need to tweet about Rob Reiner. I feel like he has, you know, other things going on, and that's reasonable. If I were in Trump's inner circle, would I had told him to post this? Probably not.

I'd suggest strongly for him to just not say anything at all. The first I'm ever hearing of Rob Reiner is that he has Trump derangement syndrome, and that still doesn't change any of my empathy towards him. I didn't know who he was. I'm hearing now he was talented. In fact, one of the first impressions I've had of him was Donald Trump's tweet. But I really think we're doing a disservice by drawing parallels from this to political violence, even bringing up Charlie Kirk's murder.

I get why you brought it up Pierce because you're saying, well, if you don't like how the left celebrated his death, don't celebrate this. But nobody's celebrating Rob Reiner's death. I hope, as Gillian said, nobody's celebrating it on either side. It sounds like Donald Trump is getting, yeah, but look, it does sound like he's getting pretty close to it. I mean, when he says that, you know, he got killed reportedly due to the anger he caused others with his mind-crippling disease, Trump derangement syndrome, there is zero evidence for any of that. He got killed by his deeply disturbed son after what the TMZ and New York Post and others are reporting was a terrible family argument. The son, Nick, who's now 32, was a screenwriter who'd battled and talked openly about

made a film about drug addiction, homelessness, and so on. But apparently, you know, used whatever kind of implement to slit the throats of his parents. Yeah. You know, I hear you. I'm not justifying it. I don't think it was something he should have said at all. I don't think there's any political motivation for this attack whatsoever,

but Donald Trump has made it political by inferring very clearly that this happened because Rob Reiner attacked him. And that's, that to me is where... I disagree. I disagree, Pierce. I'll tell you what I think his intention was, and I will also preface by saying he did not get the message across. I feel like his intention was, hey, everybody, look,

although this man hated me, and although he had Trump D'Arangement Syndrome, he ended it, you know, putting up together with, may they rest in peace, whatever. I feel like what his intention was, was even though I disagree with him, the guy died and I'm sorry for him. He did that impossibly,

worst way. And I just don't feel like this is really shocking to anybody here. I feel like we've all been following Trump over the last 10 years. And as Wajahat said, that's his style. You know, you like it or not, that's who he is. This tweet was wrong. But it's not, you know, necessarily so shocking for all of us to see. And also, it should be doing that for GERRY. I actually did. I actually did find it quite shocking. And I have known Trump a long time. I'm a friend of Trump's good, bad and ugly. And I got to say, Roland, I, There's no defense for this. No, there's no defense.

I don't know what the hell I just heard. Let's be clear. He has no morals, no values, no decency, no ethics, no principles. This is who he is. This is not a shock at all. He's a narcissist. He is someone who makes everything about him. And so this is who this man is.

This is who he was, not in the last 10 years, peers, but going back to when he was descending down those escalators, going before that, the whole thing with Obama and the birth. This is who this man is. Well, he's always been a trash talker. So I'm not shocked. But I'm not shot. Hang on.

Hang on. Hang on a second. Look, he's always been a trash talker, right? He's a New York real estate guy. He's a trash talk. And I would say, I would say, I know, I'm going to come to that. In relation to general trash talk, my God, the left talk trash about him, right? As I said in that clip, so all the Hitler stuff, the Nazis, all that, you know, it's

two-way street, the trash talking. This is a particular thing, which angered... I understand that. It angered me when I saw his reaction to Colin Powell dying, to John McCain dying. You know, I just think there's just got to be, on all sides, when public figures like this die, whether they're great politicians or they're great movie people, whatever it is, there just has to be a basic decency. If people get killed or murdered or whatever it is, or die... after great lives and careers,

just either be decent or don't say anything. Here's a deal. This is all sides. It's nonsense. First, listen, the regular average person was out there on social media, that's one thing. But it's called being a statesman for a reason. I'm literally sitting here,

I grabbed my book, Master of the Senate of LBJ. And it was amazing. Cairo talks about how LBJ how when he was president, how he spoke and moved differently, publicly, but he did when he was the majority of the Senate, because he saw the presidency and respect for the institution. This person has none. This is no shock.

There's a reason I don't even call him president, because he doesn't even, he does not rise to the occasion in that way. This is who he is. He will degrade people. He will say these things. I am not shocked by it because he is despicable in this way. There's no defense. There's no, well, I think he meant, no.

He meant exactly what he wrote. Okay. Look, I want to move on to Australia. But I do want to end by just playing a clip, another clip from that interview with Rob Reiner, which I think is a nice way to remember him because, ironically, I said to him, because we've just been talking about Charlie Kirk, I said, you know, Rob, you know, when the day comes, when you're no longer with us, and I hope it's not for a long time, very ironic given what's now happened.

But I said, you know, I would love to. know out of all your movies, which one would you choose? And he said this. Should the moment come and we need to remember the work of Rob Reiner, how would you, which is the one for you of everything you've ever done that you would most like to be remembered for? You know, I always say, stand by me to me is the one that meant the most to me. I don't know that it's the best, you know, it's for other people to decide, but it's the one that meant the most to me because it really is an extension of my personality and my sensibility. It has a mixture of humor and melancholy and emotion. And it's something that

is closest to me of all the films I've done. You know, and he went on to say a really moving thing, which was, I said my favorite one of his movies was when Harry met Sally, which I think in many ways is almost a perfect movie, brilliantly written, brilliantly directed, brilliantly acted, and a perfect length. And he talked about the fact that it was about 90 minutes. And he said the number of people that would come up to him, who said on New Year's Eve, which obviously we're just a few weeks away from now, on New Year's Eve, they would start watching it at 10.30 at night on New Year's Eve.

So at the precise moment of the New Year's Eve, denou more to the movie, people would actually celebrate the New Year and how much you love that. That is actually how I'd love Rob Reiner to be remembered. As somebody who actually moved people with the power of his movies. And my God, he had so many great movies. And they were movies of warmth and love and humor and hope and all the things you would want in society. And that is how he should be remembered, I think.

Here's, can I make a quick comment about his amazing career? Just real quick. For Emily, if you want to go rent some of his movies. Rob Reiner had a generational run of movies for a decade. I just want to name them. I think I could get them at the top of my head. In a row, this is Spinal Tap, The Sure Thing. Stand by me, Princess Bride, When Harry Met Sally, Misery, Few Good Men, All in a Row, 10 years.

I heard of when Harry met Sally. I'm going to watch it. I mean, name me another director with that type of a run. Oh, my God. In addition, just to being everyone who knew. him said, regardless of what you think about his politics, a really decent, loving, caring man who cared passionately about people, champion rights for women, LGBTQ folks, and cared about our democracy and preserving it.

Yeah, someone did a great tweet. This was Dan Pullman on X. You said, Rob Reiner directed the best American rom-com when I'm hearing at Sally, the best coming-of-age film, Stand By Me, the best fantasy comedy, Princess Bride, the best mockumentary. this is spinal tap and the best courtroom drama show down a few good men. He did all that and so much more. So look, I want to move on, but I do think that that is how Rob Reiner should be remembered and not for Trump derangement syndrome, which I'm sad to say,

says more about the president for saying that than it does about Rob Reiner. Right, let's move on to what I wanted to start with before this blew up. And that's his appalling terror attack in Sydney on Bondi Beach. Emily, let me start with you on this. it's going to be a scary time to be Jewish right now. You know, let's park to one side, and other members of the panel won't want to do this, but let's park the war in Gaza between Israel and Amaz

to one side for a moment. There are 15 million Jews in the world, and when you see the rising volume of attacks on Jewish people because they're Jewish, this has got to be a scary time. And I think that should be recognized. What do you feel? It's a very familiar story when it comes to debt. The banks win you pay.

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That's pdsdcdeck.com slash peers. PDSdeck.com slash peers. First and foremost, I feel privileged as an American. That maybe call me ignorant, call me naive. I just still feel very safe as a Jew under Trump's administration. I don't have that privilege overseas. I'm very aware of my surroundings when I travel. Australia is a place of no travel for me

because of the failure that we witnessed take fold yesterday. I feel like this could have been prevented. I feel that it was warned multiple times by multiple people. They begged the government at that point to do the one job they're supposed to do, which is to protect its citizens. But yeah, the rise of anti-Semitism, and you mentioned to park the war in Gaza, for a moment, let's park that for this whole conversation, because I don't care what you think of that war. There is no justification.

There's no reason for mowing down Jews, gunning down Jews, murdering Jews at all because you don't agree with the war, because you have to remember there are people who have the opposing view from you on that war, and the violence is a two-way street. But it seems like the bullets, when it comes to persecution, really only go towards the Jews in this case and I'd like to see all of the bullets stop as a whole. But what happened in Australia was so easily preventable. And it's so sad, Pierce, that we cannot even celebrate Hanukkah without spending tens of thousands of dollars on security because we are scared that there's going to be someone who's likely an immigrant from another country gunning down Jews. So the last point

I'll make before we open it to the panel is Australia's biggest failure was the mass immigration from countries and the failure to vet them, because I'm not against immigration. I think immigrants contribute a lot to every society. But I just found out that the shooters were previously investigated for ties to ISIS? How about this? The fact that you needed to prompt the investigation

was enough to turn them away as immigrants. But nope, they welcomed them. You saw on October 8th the protests that they did in Sydney and all over Melbourne, October 8th, Pierce, Israel had not retaliated yet, chanting, globalized the intifada, death to thy, whatever they were cheering, it doesn't even matter.

They were calling for violence, and anyone who supports that should be a litmus test as to where your country stands in its safety. Okay, Cheng, let me bring you in here. This is complicated by one fact, but it's a salient fact to the whole debate about the narrative that many have, which is that the creeping Islamification, if you like, of the West,

has been the major problem here, that there are way too many Muslims living in, with a different culture, that many are prone to violence, and that's what we've seen here. But the guy that saved so many lives, Ahmed al-Ahmad, turned out himself to be a Muslim immigrant from Syria. So by the yardstick of keep them all out, you would also have to keep out the guy who saved many lives

and has become not just a national hero in Australia, where he's been a citizen since 2006, I think, But it's become a global hero. I mean, several million dollars already been raised in a go fund me for him, including people like Bill Ackman, leading Jewish figures in the United States. So this is a complex story because it's not easily dismissed as the way many would like it to be, which is you've got two obviously radicalized extremists, a father and son, who the father had legally six firearms,

was a member of a hunting club. Australia, for those who don't know, had a terrible mass shooting back in the mid-90s in Hobart and Tasmania. 35 people were killed. As a result, they did some of the most draconian new gun laws anywhere in the world, and it had a dramatic effect

on reducing gun violence in Australia. They also had nearly a million guns handed back in to the government under a buy-back program that was very successful. So this has been a real shock to the system. in Australia because they're simply, rather like my country, not used to gun violence.

There is 580 times, I know this, because Emily asked me about this statistic in relation to guns on X earlier when we were talking about this, because I don't think you can ignore the gun part either. And I said, look, the bottom line is, Australia is a population of 27 million, America at 340 million, but the amount of gun violence in America

proportionate to Australia is 580 times worse. 18,000 murders in 2023 in Australia, in the same year-long period from June 23 to June 24, 31 gun murders. It's not even, there's no comparison to be made that makes any sense. So my point, I think, Cheng, is if you come from a school of you've got to kick all the Muslims out, then you've got to kick out Ahmed al-Akma when he tries to come in from Syria, yet he's the national hero here. And so it's not as simple as that.

There are many good Muslims. There are bad, radicalized Muslims. You can take the same yardstick to every other religion. So this is my problem. And I think Emily and I, we agreed on something you posted earlier. I'm sorry, Cheng, for the rant here. But I do think it was really important. Emily recognized that it's always wrong in these situations

to just blame a religion. It's just wrong. Whatever that religion is, you can't blame a billion people for the actions of two ISIS radicalized nut jobs on a beach in Sydney. Over to you, Chang. Yeah. So there are two different issues here. The issue of violence is the relatively straightforward one.

So everyone should condemn the violence. Everyone should condemn violent extremists. So I don't know anyone who hasn't, and they'd be monsters if they didn't. So those poor victims there, the 15 people who were killed and the others that were injured, and everyone who was traumatized by it, they didn't deserve that at all. They had nothing to do with any government policy. They were just innocent human beings.

So now, our position has been very consistent for nonviolence and against killing on both sides. Now, the second issue is propaganda. So when any Muslim extremist, out of one point, there's a... that's two guys out of 1.6 billion people do it. There is a concerted effort by some, and yes, including Israelis, to say it's all Muslims, it's all Muslims, it's all Muslims, you should hate them, you should kick them out of your countries, they all think this way.

And honestly, that kind of propaganda is disgusting. And if we did it to the other side, which we would never, and we said things like it's all the Jews, all the Jews, that would be horrific, right? No one would tolerate that. But when the other side does it, and if you don't think they do it, just go on social media. There are thousands, maybe millions of comments. And yes, about three months ago, all of the Israel first pundits started changing.

And they literally said, I tweeted about it. One of their influencers was like, it's hard to get the Americans to like Israel. There really is no reason to like Israel and support Israel. But it is easier to get them to hate Muslims. So we should do a propaganda. Now, she didn't say propaganda, to be fair, but she said we should do a campaign. to highlight how much Muslims are bad. And now when we talk about violence,

we ask for the same kind of decency. Can we not kill 70,000 people in Gaza? 20,000 kids. But the Israelis say, no, we're allowed to kill 20,000 kids. And no one should be able to condemn that. But every Muslim on planet Earth have to condemn these lunatics, as if these lunatics represent us. There's also lunatics in every religion and every race, and we lock them up because they're violent and we can't stand violence.

And by the way, last thing, if you're on the left and you're part of the peace movement, our whole ethos is nonviolence. So if you do violence, you betray us all. It is immoral, it is unintelligent, it is deeply counterproductive, and it is used by our enemies to further discriminate against Muslims, Arabs, Palestinians, etc. So it is the single worst thing you could do, but mainly obviously, because of the deep immorality of killing innocent people. Okay. Gillian,

I think it's very immoral that you couldn't just take one conversation about a shooting in Australia without comparing it to a war in Gaza. There's a difference between celebrating a religious holiday on the beach and thank God Hamas losing a very nasty war in the Middle East. But if you want to start equivocating Middle Eastern violence. Yeah, there is a difference.

Seventy thousand more. So you celebrate 70,000 dead? No, no, I find you deeply immoral. I've always found you immoral. Because you think that Palestinian Muslims don't matter. You said, let me speak. You said, you said every Israeli says it's all the Muslims. Let me just correct one fact for you.

Not every Israeli. Every pro-Israeli punitive like you. It is at the hands of a Muslim. And nonetheless, I still don't blame the entire religion as a whole. But that's just the fact of the matter in Israel. So for once in your life, if you could just focus on the victims, without a quivic, jealous of what exactly? Jealous of what?

We all have our problems. I say generous. You're so generous for not hating every single Muslim. You just are in favor of murdering $70,000 in Gaza and stealing their land. All right, let me bring in. Call a spade a spade. You don't have to compare everything to the war in Gaza. Do you mourn the 20,000 dead kids?

Simple question. Simple question. Do you mourn the dead 20,000 Palestinian kids? Yes, every single child that dies is a disaster. I do. Why are you celebrating Israel doing it? I said, I am celebrating Israel. Israel is wrong.

Israel is brutal terrorist killers. Israel is wrong. See. I'm happy Israel's winning this war. No, no, no. There is no genocide of the Israelis. There's only a genocide of the Palestinians. And you won't condemn it.

You can't condemn the genocide. Are you condemning Israel for murdering 1,000 kids? Hang on. Hang on. Hang on. And then let's do you know. We've got 20,000 kids. We're condemning Hamas for starting the war.

Guys, guys, guys, guys. Guys, I think we can be crystal clear on the genocide point. There's no doubt that Hamas would love to be genocidal. They talk in a genocidal language. I don't think there's much doubt about that. Gillian, let me bring you in here. All right, so we're right into this. He was actually doing a genocide, actually doing it.

Not a theoretical one, not a hypothetical one. And Hamas killed as many Israelis. Hamas killed as many Israelis as they could possibly kill on October the 7th. in a genocidal rampage. So let's not compare genocide with genocide. I want to bring in Jillian. Israel's civilian kill ratio is worse than Hamas. All right.

There are bigger tailings than Amaz. Let me bring in Gillian, please. Let me bring in Gillian, please. Gillian, you'll be waiting very patiently. Thank you. Let's focus back for a moment because there were many, many attacks going on on Jewish people before October the 7th. All right.

So let's be clear about that. This has been a rising problem of anti-Semitism across the world, and there are not many Jewish people in the world. There are 1.6 billion Muslims. There are 15 million Jews, right? Let's just put the numbers on the table, okay? And like I said to Emily, it must be a scary time to be a Jewish person right now

when even celebrating Hanukkah on a beach in Sydney. I've been to that beach, Bondi Beach. It's one of the most fun, positive, entertaining places to be anywhere in the world. The sun always shines, the families always play. And then suddenly utter carnage with a father and son, dressed like paramilitaries, just using shotguns to cold-bloodedly murder, a Holocaust survivor, a 10-year-old girl, and so on. So let's just start by calling out how despicable this was on every level. And yet how typical of ISIS and groups like it, the radicalized,

Islamist extremists who've been doing this for a long time. For the last 20 years they've been doing this stuff. And it's a horrible throwback to that. So yes, we can talk about the war, and it's not irrelevant. But I do think we need to put this in some perspective, which is these kind of attacks on Jewish people were going on way before the war started. Can I address a few of the things that you said previously? Yeah. I don't think the alarm is about Muslims migrating to America. I think the alarm is about assimilation. I don't think that these two individuals in Bandai represent what I've been told is actually two billion Muslims. But when I talk to people, and I've really been trying to understand and explore this issue, whether it's Gadsat or it's Patrick Bet David, when I talk to people, they'll tell you, yeah, let's say 90,

And I've looked at Pew Research. I've looked at the Global Terra database. That's a conservative number. 90% of Muslims are peaceful and lovely and amazing. But if 10% wants to bring down the West, you're looking at a heck of a lot of people. You're looking at like 200 million people. So what do you do about that? And yes, there are amazing heroes like the man who tried to stop them. But guys, when you're, you're. when you look at the fact that there have been 64,000 terror attacks since 9-11 that were committed by radical Islam, 243,000 people died in those terror attacks. And you're saying all religions, I mean, not really, not really. When you, I've started to read the Quran. And there's a duality there, unquestionably, but there's a lot in there about, you know, kill and subjugate the infidels. So, Jenk, you. a good faith actor. I think... Have you ever read the Old Testament? Have you ever read the Old Testament?

It's about slaughtering all the other tribes. And in fact, Netanyahu quotes it and says, kill, do like we did to the Amaleks, killed our women and children. There are sick of religious fundamentalists, and unfortunately, they're Jewish settlers and the Israeli government. They're the sickest extreme in religion on the whole planet. And I understand, I understand Gaza, okay? And I, and I see both sides of that, absolutely. And you've made great points to me, and I've listened to you, and I've changed my position on how I feel that the Israeli government has behaved over there. But what I'm trying to tell you simply is that when people are Islamophobic, as I've explored this, I do think they are. And what I think they're afraid of is an ideology that is not an alignment

with the West. And it's not the vast majority of Muslims. But when it's, let's say, 10%, it's still a lot of people. These are statistics. I'm getting inside of a set of a set. Let me, hang on, hang on. That's an outrageous number. Let me bring him Majahat to respond. Let me bring him Majahat to respond to that. Amad al-A-Mad is a 43-year-old Muslim fruit vendor who

unarmed, decided to bumrush one of the terrorists, disarmed him, took the gun while he was being shot at. It was shot twice. I didn't realize this at first when I saw that amazing video, but then I later saw He was shot twice. He held off the other shooter, and he saved lives. In Germany, in March, there was a deranged Saudi national who, by the way, became radicalized by AFD and this type of white nationalism and ended up hating Islam. He rammed a truck in a terrorist attack through a crowd.

You know who stopped him? A Pakistani Muslim cab driver in Germany stopped him. When there was an attack on Jews in France a couple of years ago, there was an African black immigrant who protected them. This is the story of an individual who decided to lean into empathy and decency and compassion and squared off against two individuals who were radicalized, we don't know how, and saw Jews as the target through their dehumanization. There are 1.7 billion Muslim people on Earth. Jillian's talking points are from 2001, which is why I yawned. The DeLorean right now is in 2025. This is, listen, I've been in this for a long time, Jill. I know you're discovering this.

Congratulations. Let me just finish. I let you say a lot of hateful, stupid, reckless things about Muslim Islam. Would you like to say one? That's 20 million people. Jillian, you are, you by your own admission, you by your own admission are a white nationalist. You buy your own admission.

That's what you are, a white nationalist. You admitted it. I'm a white, you know, I'm Arab, right? The number one, domestic, parent. I'm Syrian and Lebanese and Turkish. Okay, you're the one who said it. I didn't say. That's why I was shocked.

When did I say it was a white nationalist? You're not a white nationalist? There was a, oh, wasn't there a clip that saying you were a white nationalist? You're not a white nationalist. No. Okay, interesting. Interesting to know. All right.

Where's the clip that I said it was a white nationalist? I'm under the, I'm under the mistaken impression. you were a white national? I'm glad you're not. But let me just finish. Since 2001, Pierce, you and I on this panel. You and I on this panel. How about a little homework, Wajahad? How about just a little? All right, let's do homework. Let's do homework. Since 2001, you and me, we were against the war and terror. We said that the war and terror would be disastrous. We said that the war on terror, America's response to 19 foreign hijackers bringing down the two towers would be, would cause immense chaos. dissension. What happened? America went to war with Iraq and Afghanistan off of terrible evidence,

off of the same type of bullshit that Gillian's saying right now, if even one percent of Muslims, yada, yada, yada, yada. What happened? Over one million Iraqis were killed. Over one million Iraqis were killed. Here research. Afghans were killed and torture. And it led to the radicalization of ISIS. The European Court of Human Rights. It brought nothing but pain and misery. In division. Muslims, Jews aren't going anywhere, folks. We're in this together. And what we have to realize that there are hate mongers

who seek to divide us right now, like Gillian, who want to bring up Islamophobia and anti-seminism. I'm not trying to divide us at all watch. You're the one, actually, who has tried to divide us and you're going to this past. We have to make a future together. We have to call out the hate.

We have to call out the white supremacy, the Islamic extremism, the Jewish supremacy. How do you address? We have to call out the terrorism. We have to call out. The people that want to destroy the West. We have to call it Israel's occupation and genocide. How do you address Hamas and violent extremism?

Hey, Peir's. That wants to destroy the West. Let me bring in Rhode. Just tell me how to address that, Roger. Let me bring in Rodin. Pears, Pears, Peers. You don't have an answer, do you? Pierce.

Jillian, I've had to sit here and listen to you'll go back and forth. Can I please make this point? Please. Yes, absolutely. Peers. Peers. Last week I was in Montgomery, Alabama, for the 7th, and the version of the Montgomery Bus Boycott.

And there is a National Memorial for Peace and Justice and Legacy Museum there that commemorates, the documented 4,400 lynchings in this country. And there were more that took place. As an African-American, when I understand what it means when you have a people who have a bull's eye on their back who are being targeted, I understand that. And so it is absolutely shameful that you cannot be at a Hanukkah celebration.

And it gets interrupted by mass violence because of two evil individuals. But I'm saying two evil individuals for a reason. Because under the legitimate FBI leadership of Christopher Ray, they said that the greatest threat in America's white domestic terrorism. So when I listen to people like sitting in Tommy Tupperville, talk about, you know, getting rid of all. Muslims in this country. As an African-American, I then say, what about white Christians? Because when we look at violence in this country, mass shootings in this country, who typically

commits them. And so I think anybody has to be very careful to not go down this path of, oh my God, all of them, when I, as an African-American, who's also, Jillian, please allow me to finish. when I's an African-American, who's also a Christian, can literally look at the history of white Christians committing violence. And so what we cannot do is say, oh, it is the religion that's driving it, as opposed to it is these evil individuals. Piers, you properly talked about guns and how Australia,

after that mass shooting, you said to the 90s, how they target it. But the fact that they were successful should be a lesson to America. How about you also try that to deal with mass shootings in this country? And so it is wrong for us to go down this path of condemning an entire religion, condemning an entire group of people,

whether they are Muslim, whether they are Jewish, whether they are Christian. We have to recognize is there are evil people in this world, and our job is to root out evil and then how to impact people, but it's crazy to attack an entire

I agree. All those people. I agree with that. Who's doing that here? Emily made the same point earlier because we were talking about it. Sinner Tommy Tupperville. Yeah, but Emily. Randy Fine.

Emily, Emily, here's the reality about... Guys, guys. Here's reality about United States, for example. You have roughly the same number of Jews and Muslims in the United States. It's about four or five million of each, right? In the UK, by comparison, there are as many Muslims in the UK as there are in the whole of America, but there are only 250,000 Jews. There's a massively disproportionate scenario in my country,

which is why I think Jews in the UK, and in London in particular, feel particularly threatened when they see these large marches every weekend with people often brazenly taunting the Jewish community, you know, or supporting Hamas, or talking about a global interfaida, whatever it may be. And we saw the same thing happening in Australia, and I do think it's just thing happening in Australia,

And I do think it's really incumbent on governments that they have to clamp down on this openly threatening stuff in the streets towards Jewish people. Today's show is sponsored by Oxford Natural, makers of the optimum day and optimum night all natural supplements. Thousands of Brits and Americans

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And here's the best part. Use the code peers and get 70% off your first order. Get 70% off with the code peers. Yeah, Pierce, first of all, I want to thank you for your empathy, but I also, I hate, I hate this whole narrative. Like, I don't view myself as a Jew, as a this, as a black, as a Muslim. That's all identity politics.

I don't want to be looked at like the victim. Jews are not the victims. It's fact. A very successful thriving demographic. Okay, if you want to be a victim, you're entitled to do so. I'm going to speak for myself. I don't like being looked at. I'm not a victim.

Roland, I'm actually an African American. Good for you. Play the victim. Go ahead. I don't care. It's not. You can actually see it. Let it finish the point. Oh, my God, Roland. You're a victim. Are you happy? You're a victim. Great. So, secondly, I actually never thought I would say this. It's hard to agree with Chank and Wajahat when they utter so much BS.

But they made really great points, and I wrote them down. Chank calls out the Old Testament for commanding to slaughter your enemies. That's why when anyone says the Quran or the word Muslim, I swap it with Torah or Jew. Argument failed. It doesn't work. the same way where the chosen people argument doesn't work. So we need to get better arguments than that. You cannot say because the Quran says it, all Muslims are bad. If you feel that way, go to the UAE, go to Riyadh, go to Saudi Arabia,

any place in Saudi Arabia, you will come home and you will understand that there is mainly peaceful, secular, intelligent Muslims. And I know that wasn't your point, Jillian. You were not saying all Muslims are bad. I said the vast majority are peaceful, amazing people. What I'm trying to explain is why is why I'm going to bring this point home. Gillian, I'm getting there.

To bring this point home, the point is, good or bad, it doesn't matter. Take the religion out of it. I'm with Roland on this point. I could agree with everyone on this panel that we judge people by people. And it sounds so simple, right? But here's where we can take actionable measures

to prevent this from happening again. This is an immigration problem. Okay, I don't care if you're a Jew, a Christian, a Muslim, an atheist. If you're coming to a country and you will not contribute slash assimilate to the society, slap whatever religion you want onto it. That is the government's job to ensure that you will not come to this country and ruin it. If it happens to a Muslim, so be it. If that's a Jew, so be it. By the way, I'll point out, it's usually not the Jews that have the problem with assimilating.

But that's my point. But the problem, okay, but the problem, the problem with this, Emily, the problem with this. Nobody's going anywhere. The problem with this is this. If you look at this father and son, for example, Just the early reports coming out about them. The father had been there many years in Australia. He was a member of a shooting club. He seems to have assimilated perfectly fine, right? His son's... His son's in his mid-20s.

His son had... Wait a minute. You missed a detail. Sorry, here's the reality. And the son had had some dealings with some bad people, the government has phrased it. And not... Hang on, but not to the degree

that calls a undue concern. Now, it may be in the proper investigation that now ensues, that that will be seen to be a mistake. It may also be that if that's viewed a mistake to then allow his father to have six legally owned firearms in a country, well, that's very unusual, was also a mistake. So there may well be an expose here of some serious failures of the process, because it seems on the face of it madness. If you've got the kid hanging out with some people who may be potentially radicalizing him and he got the father with six guns, that's not a good cocktail. But he doesn't change. I agree.

And Pierce, you present your question also to the other panelists. You present it as two extremes. It's either, well, you could ban all the Muslims, but then you won't get Ahmed al-Ahmad or why is it this or that? It doesn't have to be. It doesn't have to be. I'm just saying to you, I'm just saying to you. Emily, your point is not the middle. Examining the assimilation of people.

It's not as easy as it sounds, right? If it was, nobody would slip through the net. Emily, you're speaking from both sides of your mouth. You talk about, you want a middle, you say no one's going back, but you also are perfectly fine with blaming immigrants and sending them back. Listen, I have to defend immigrants here, all right? And let me use Emily's own logic.

And let me use Jill's own logic. Number one, domestic terror threat in America consistently, and this is a fact, has been radical right and white supremacist terrorism. That's a fact. We do not, and I have not, Roland hasn't, Chink hasn't said, you know what, radicalize all white people said. But what statistics are you? Jillian, just let me finish. And then you could say, Julian, it came from the FBI director, Christopher Way. I'm not just curious. I'm not Christian. I believe that figure. I'm going to check. I'm going to get that checked in real time. Hang on. All right. I'm going to check it.

I actually am curious. I'm asking. My understanding of that claim is that it. The Department of Justice. is that is true, but I will get it double-check while we're talking. I'll get it double-check, but my understanding is that that is a true statement of fact. But then Wajah had those people would go to their website. Finish his point. Please don't all talk over each other. Yeah, so let me just finish, Gillian, and then you can come in and interfere and do what you want. All right.

Neither me, Chank, or Roland, has ever ever said, do onto white men what was done onto Muslims and black people and what's being done into Somalis, the racial profiling. the excessive demonization, kicking them all out, blaming all white people for the sins of white Christian nationalists or neo-Nazis or white supremacists, all right? The person who tried to assassinate Donald Trump twice. Two people did it.

White men. The person who killed Charlie Kirk, allegedly a white man. The number one identity of mass shooters in America. Want to take a guess? White men. Number one identity of child pedophiles. White men. Oh, victims.

I have never said, kick out all white people, racially profile white people, dehumanists. I'm not saying that to Muslims. What you are doing is saying if it's a Muslim, let's engage in Islamophobia. Let's hate them. That's not what I'm saying, Roger Ha. This has been happening for 25 years.

Let me ask you. Wajah, let me ask you a question. It has increased anti-American. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Would I, first of all. Wajah, a serious question. There are a loss of Muslim extremists.

You'd accept that. Of course. Okay. And I've condemned it on your show. know the exact number. You don't. Gillian doesn't, right? It's not even close when it comes to American terrorism. It's not even close. The point she's making,

it's comparison to the total number of Jews on the planet, there are 1.6 to 2 billion Muslims, right? You only did a small number of those to be radicalized, to be extremist, and you will start to see a lot of bad stuff happening. And what I'm trying to say is, if you use that same logic,

so my question is, what do you? My question with Jaha'at for you is what does, what does, what What does the Muslim community do to root out these extremists in their midst? Right. Well, okay. And not an understanding. No.

By the way, everything you said, all, any white person who's committed such an atrocity should obviously go to jail for the rest of their life. What has Gillian done to root out white mass shooters in America? Jillian, what have you done to root out and de-radicalize the white men in your community who are responsible for the number one mass shooting in this country? I would condemn and call it out. And I would, if I was on a jury, I would absolutely. No, no, what have you done?

What have you done? To go to prison. And that is not doing anything. And that is precisely. To go after radical Muslims. I'm trying to condemn all violence and form like some common ground with you here where radicalism across the board should be condemned. But I think what you're not understanding is when people are concerned.

They're concerned as far as I can tell about assimilation. And in all the conversations that I have had about this, they are worried like, hey, if it's two radical Muslims and one good guy, how are we going to keep the two radicals out? And if you've got, let's say, 1% of 2 billion people that want to bring down the West, like, what do you do about chance of death to America and Dearborn? Like, this is what I'm saying about that? I keep hearing the assimilation.

Pears, I keep here, peers, I keep here. I keep hearing assimilation. And again, this is the point which they're making. You keep saying assimilation, that is the answer. Again, what happens when people who are born here, who are brought here in chains, and their ancestors and their folks are here, and you still are dealing in white domestic terrorism? Is that assimilation? See, this is the problem. Y'all somehow think that assimilation, oh, that's going to be the answer. That's not. It is not the answer. And so it's nonsensical to think so.

Well, immigrants generally thrive in America. Yeah, let them define assimilation. Let me bring in Cheng here. I'll define it. Let me bring in Cheng. Look, my... I'll define it. It's not chanting death to America.

It's loving America. It's also not participating in a finalist direction. That's kind of the answer, in my opinion. Can I say something, please, to Chink? So, Chang, this word assimilation, what it really means to me, at its purist, is that if you come to, say, the United States or the UK or Australia, from another country, particularly another country which has a very different culture, so say you come from the Middle East and you come to live in America,

live in London, live in Sydney, whatever, that the word assimilate means that you do your best to be part of the new culture you're joining. What you don't do is put a drawbridge up and start your own culture within the culture of the country you go to at the expense of that nation's culture. I mean, at its purest, that's not true. Well, that is true. Okay, what you just described is the case.

Then the Italians, the Jewish, the Polish, every group that came to the United States did exactly what you just said. They had own communities, own culture. So, like, do you all understand the history of America? Yes. And I also understand that in the U. Well, I didn't, I don't remember the Italians in America

setting up their own rival court system, for example, unless I missed it. Muslims have an either case. Yeah, no, no. Because in the UK, we now have nearly 100 Sharia courts have been set up. Okay? So I don't remember that happening with any of the polls or the Italians in the United States. That's what I'm talking about, Jank. Okay.

All right. So what I can't stand at. is the double standards. So if, for example, you know, Jillian said, what if 10% Muslims are violent? Okay. If you said that about Jewish people and you said, look, I'm not worried about most Jews, but, you know, if all, if 10% of Jews are treacherous and serve Israel first and betray their country, hold on, hold on, no, no, no, no, Jillian, now you let me talk, okay? No, you let me talk. No, Okay. So now, if you said 10% of Jews are the real problem, everyone would be outraged and rightfully so. That's not the right thing to say. But people say it blithfully about Muslims. Like we don't count, and it's no big deal to discriminate against us. Now let's talk about immigration. You fill out forms. There's some idiot fills out a form and says, I'm for ISIS, I'm for Muslim extremism, and you don't want to let them into the country. Of course. Of course you don't let them into the country. But now we're talking about Muslims at large. Wait, that's a totally different thing. By the way, are we doing the same thing for Israelis? Are we having

them fill it? Hold on. Hold on. Are we allowing them to, are we asking them to fill out a form? Are you against murdering 20,000 Palestinian kids? And if they say, no, I am for it, and I like what Israel did, are we banning them because they're sick, violent extremists who don't mind the murder of 20,000 children? No, of course not. In fact, when you look at the forms, right now, what we're asking in entering our country is, what are your views about Israel? Who gives it damn what their views about Israel are when they're coming to America?

Why are we asking about a different country? What I care most about is American sovereignty. Now, Roland is right. Muslims come here, Jews, come here, Italians, etc. We all assimilate to some degree. I love the Pittsburgh Steelers. My favorite food is subs, et cetera. And I'm sure that's true of Jews, Christians, everyone, right?

but we also keep a part of our culture. And if we said to, again, Jewish people like we're saying to Muslims, how dare you not assimilate? What's with the silly hat and the stupid little things and the things coming out of your pockets? Why don't you assimilate? The real problem is the Jews. And they're too, hold on, hold on.

And they're too loyal to Israel. And that's the real problem. They will not assimilate. All they care about is Israel. Everyone would say you're an unacceptable anti-Semite and you should be canceled forever. Listen, I've got a legitimate debate. I've got to wrap the debate.

What I would say, though, is there should be lines that we can all agree to draw. One is if you chant global interfaida, everybody knows what that means. There have been two interfadars in the last 30-odd years, and they were both extremely violent. So when people call for that and chant about it. How about the violence of the occupation? They are uprising against a brutal fascist occupation for, I'm talking to... But you never talk about the Israeli violence in the same way.

When Israelis get together... Actually, I've regularly criticized it. Yes, Occupy the Palestinians. Inslave them. I've regularly criticized it. I've regularly criticized it. But when you allow... That's not a debate we have in America.

When you allow, as Australia and England have done, to allow mass demonstrations pro-Palestinian, where people chant global interfaida or death the IDF or waive the Hamas insignia, that to me all crosses. line. That's an assignment of violence. Can we be like the Australian Jewish community?

Wait, wait, can I just say this? To end on a positive note? Yeah. Like the Australian Jewish community, when they were given the opportunity to dehumanize Muslims and Palestinians. Did you see what they did? They said, we're not going to do that. We're only going to blame the two shooters and we're in this together. Be like that,

folks. Don't be like Gillian and Emily and try to go against Muslims and immigrants and all this nonsense, a divide and conquer. We're all in this together. I just want to I have been the fact that you have to straw men arguments and put words in people's mouth

shows that you have no case. You call me a blaming other religions. You have no idea I must say, I must say, I've heard of some I've heard of some curious ways of ending on a positive note. That was not one of them.

But no, I'm going to leave it there. It's hard to think of a less positive note you left it on than hammering. and then hammering two of your co-panelists, but we'll leave it there. I actually think what they said in Australia was a good thing, and we should all strive to be unifying forces

and not polarising forces. We started this with Donald Trump's comments on Rob Reiner. How nice it would have been if Donald Trump had come out and paid tribute to Rob Reimer, the filmmaker, because I bet he's loved his films, rather than trashing him on a human level, which I just thought crossed the line.

We all, I think, know where a lot of lines are that shouldn't be crossed, and we've got to come together, make sure nobody crosses him. Then life will slowly start to improve from this toxic hell we're currently invested with. Anyway, thank you all very much. Christmas is peak time for online shopping sprees,

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Flash, Peers. Well, join me now for more on the Bondi Beach attack is the former Australian Prime Minister, Tony Abbott. Mr. Abbott, thank you very much indeed for joining me on Uncensored. Thanks for having me, Peers. This has been, as you observed, the worst atrocity against Jews anywhere in the world

since October the 7th, and it's happened in your country. How do you feel about that? Well, I think I feel numbed, and I feel slightly ashamed, and I am embarrassed that there hasn't been sufficient leadership in our country to crack down on the manifest examples of due hate that we've had over and over again for the last couple of years since the October 7th atrocity. We haven't had hate preachers deported. We haven't had hate marches banned. Instead, we've had all levels of government.

engaging in displays of hand-ringing impotence in the face of multiple, multiple displays of extreme due hatred, and I just think that it's got to stop. What is the best way to tackle radical Islamist extremism? We've seen a lot of it since the turn of the century, a lot of it fuelled perhaps by the war on terror and all the repercussions from that.

But this has been going on now for nearly 30, years. And it's been horrific. And what we saw in Bondi was very similar to the stuff we saw from ISIS over the years. So it's not gone away. You know, you ran Australia for nearly three years. What do you believe is the most effective way to tackle this? Well, I think we've got to be absolutely blot that people who live in countries like Australia, Britain, America, free, democratic, pluralist countries have got to accept that people have a right to live their own lives, that freedom of speech, freedom of expression, freedom of conscience, freedom of religion are a reality. And people who stand up and insist that Jews should be killed

or that Israel has no right to exist, that the IDF should be killed and that there should be a globalised into FATA, these people are gravely at odds with our liberal democratic values. And sure, it's all very well to say free speech, but sometimes free speech verges on intimidation. And that's what we've seen. We've seen attempts to intimidate Jewish people, I think attempts to intimidate society at large by militant Islamists in our midst. it's time for all of this to stop. There was, of course, an extraordinary irony

that the hero who risked his life to save potentially many, many people by taking down one of these terrorists and disarming him, was himself a Muslim, was an immigrant from Syria in, I think, 2006 to Australia, clearly not just contributing to society as a fruit seller, but also now as a national hero. So for those who say we can't let Muslims in anymore, you've got right there a shining example of the very best of a Muslim.

I completely agree with you, Piers, and the last thing we should be doing is discriminating on the basis of religion itself, but I think we should be discriminating on the basis of values. Obviously, there are some Muslims who are more than happy to join Team Australia and who are more than happy to commit themselves wholeheartedly to our country. There are others who seem to be more interested in a very strict, exclusionary, exclusive version of Islam, and that's where the problem lies.

So what I'd like to hope is that over time in countries like Australia and Britain, which are free countries, a different and more genial version of Islam might develop, which is perfectly consistent with living in liberal, plural democracies. But at the moment, there seems to be this struggle inside the soul of Islam between those who believe in live and let live and those who believe in death to the infidels. And obviously, there can be no such thing as death to the infidels

in a society such as ours, which are full of infidels. There is no justification, of course, for this appalling terror attack and no defence for it. Separate to this, though, there is a belief that the Israeli government's actions and the way they've prosecuted the war on Gaza

by destroying so much of it, by killing so many people, including over 20,000 children, that this has made life for Jews around the world less safe. Do you think that is a possibility? Well, peers, I can understand the dismay that some people obviously have, looking at the devastation in Gaza. But let's not forget who's responsible for this. It's Hamas. I mean, it was Hamas that unleashed

terror against Israel on October the 7th. It's Hamas that used their own people as human shields, have hid their, I suppose, their weapons stores and their terror cells in hospitals and schools and so on. And a country has a right to self-defense. I think that the Israeli armed forces, notwithstanding some terrible mistakes, have been fastidious to try to minimize civilian casualties in a way that, let's face,

that bomber command didn't always back in the Second World War. So I guess I make two points. First, I think we have to be understanding of the predicament that Israel, the Middle East, only liberal democracy, finds itself in. And second, you can disagree, if you like, with the Israeli government's tactics, but that hardly justifies wanting to see the whole state of Israel and some nine million Jewish peoples effectively subjected to a new country. Holocaust, and that's implicit in this whole Palestine must be free from the river to the sea,

hate-filled rhetoric that we've seen in abundance in the big cities of the West for the last two years. Yeah, I mean, I agree with that, but I also have been very disturbed by the rhetoric coming from the likes of Smodrich and Benghavir in the Israeli government, who have been talking in language that can really only be described as ethnic cleansing. desire to get rid of all the Palestinians from Gaza and so on. I don't like that either. But that is not the policy of the Israeli government, although it may indeed be the view of a small handful of people in the Nessar.

So again, but by all means, peers, let's disagree, let's argue, let's practice free speech. but free speech that involves calls for the destruction of a whole country, a free speech that involves calls for death to Jewish people on a mass scale. That's really not free speech. That's incitement to violence. That's kind of rhetorical intimidation. And I just think that there's been far too much of it, which has been officially tolerated by government.

for far too long. One of the other issues that's been raised as a result of the mass shooting is guns and gun control. You know, I remember in 1996, I was editor of a Daily Mirror in the UK when Dunblane happened and 16 young children were killed.

And there was a dramatic change in gun laws driven by conservative John Major and then Labour Tony Blair. Blair finished off what Major started and had a profoundly effective impact on gun violence in the UK. And almost at the same time, you had the massacre in Hobart in Tasmania with 35 people killed. And again, very draconian new gun laws brought in, which over time have proven to be very effective, I think, in stemming gun violence. To the extent

I was telling an American panel earlier that you had in 2023, in Australia, in a country of 27 million people, 31 gun murders from June 23 to June 24. And in 2023 in America, by contrast, with 12 times as many people, you had 18,000 gun murders, which is a gun rate of 580 times as big. So Australia has done very well in curbing gun violence. This has prompted a lot of calls for new gun laws. And I guess, look, I was involved at the sharp end of debate in this for years in America and didn't get very far with him, if I'm honest. But as I look at the Prime Minister of Australia now, Anthony Albanese, considering what to do,

it is odd to me that this guy whose son had already been flagged up as potentially problematic, potentially getting radicalized in some way, it seems, that his father, who he lived with, had six guns in a country where that's not easy to do. You know, for that alone, do you think it is worth looking at the gun laws again? Well, he is sure. I am amazed and surprised that this individual was able to have six military-grade long arms in his possession legally. But I do think that it's a bit of a smokescreen from the Prime Minister. Sure, I think there's been an error somewhere for this guy to have had.

so many guns, but in the end, it's the mindset behind the trigger, so to speak, that's the problem, not the trigger itself. I mean, it's this rampant Jew hatred. It's this sense that somehow it's okay if you're a Muslim to say, oh, Jews should be killed. That's what needs to change. And that's why I would love to see in countries like ours some more genial Muslim leaders emerge who can say, as indeed President Al-Sisi did some years ago, when he said, look, for too long, we Muslims have done things in the name of Islam, which are wrong. And we have to develop a better mindset if the world is to go forward in peace. And I just think that we need much more of that.

We need, if you like, a renaissance, a reformation, some kind of. kind of an enlightenment inside Islam, and the sooner it comes, the better for all of us. Tony Abbott, I really appreciate you coming on Oncensor. Thank you very much. Thank you, Peirz. Peers Morgan Uncensored is proudly independent. The only boss around here is me.

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