Piers Morgan Uncensored - ‘Eat Your Taco And LISTEN!’ Trump Tariffs - Who Was Right? With Kari Lake & Cenk Uygur

Episode Date: August 4, 2025

Four months ago the world’s media gathered on the White House lawn for what the president billed as Liberation Day. The immediate impact was that many US stock owners were liberated from a lot of money as the markets reeled. But after many delays, downgrades and deals, the markets have recovered. A lot of people made some big predictions on Liberation Day, including on Uncensored - and today Piers Morgan reassembles some to find out who was right. Is America winning the trade war? Or could raging inflation and a recession still be on the cards? Here to discuss this and more is senior adviser to the US Agency for Global Media Kari Lake, founder and CEO of The Young Turks Cenk Uygur, Financial Times columnist Gillian Tett and NewsNation’s editor-at-large Geraldo Rivera. Piers Morgan Uncensored is proudly independent and supported by: American Financing: Call American Financing today to find out how customers are saving an avg of $800/mo. 866-721-3300 or visit https://www.AmericanFinancing.net/Piers - NMLS 182334, https://nmlsconsumeraccess.org Birch Gold: Visit https://birchgold.com/piers to get your free info kit on gold. Jacked Up Fitness: Go to https://GetJackedUp.com and use code PIERS at checkout to save 10% off your entire purchase Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

American jobs are coming back, and I know it upsets people like chain, because then he can't complain about stuff on his show. Are you insane? I was completely right. Trump's put in 145 percent tariffs. These will never last. They're maniacal. There's literally something named Taco. Trump always chickens out, and I'd like to serve some tacos to carry Lake today. He's using tariffs to end wars. Look what he did with Cambodia and Thailand. This thing is going to turn into the greatest economy the world has ever seen. How could you close the border which Americans really, really wanted and still be negative on the issue of immigration? And the way that you do it is you become needlessly cruel. We are creating millions of homecomings, repatriating people back to their country. That's not cruel.

It's not cruel. There's no connection between these ICE agents and the communities they seek to serve. Shank wants our ICE officers potentially hurt or murdered because he doesn't want their face cover. Galane Maxwell, the only other person who was prosecuted, is now going to a minimum security prison. I mean, if he lets her go, this country's going to explode. Four months ago, the world's media gathered on the White House lawn for what the president billed as Liberation Day. The immediate impact was that many U.S. stock owners were liberated from a lot of their money as the markets reeled. But after many delays, downgrades and deals, the markets have recovered.

And the general consensus is that America is winning. the trade war. Trump seems far happier with deals like the one he made with the European Union than anybody in Europe does, raging inflation and a recession have not materialized yet. A lot of people made some big predictions on Liberation Day, including on this show. Well, we said we'd reassemble our panel after three to four months to see how their initial proclamations were holding up and to debate what happens next. We begin with a reminder of what they all said. We know this will work. There's going to be a lot of fearmongering coming. from the left in the media. There's going to be a ton of fear mongering. Your beer prices are going to go up.

All this stuff, Chang just said, just wait and see. This is going to happen. There's going to be a few bumps along the way. But in the end, we are going to see a strong American economy, a strong middle class. You're right. The middle class has been decimated. It's going to come roaring back. If we don't have a middle class, our economy will never be strong again. So, Pears, take note of this show. I want to bring it back in three months and three years. you'll see they were wrong, we didn't magically have a booming economy. What I've been struck by.

None of these towns will be around in two years. Well, what I've been struck by is the absolute certainty that all four of you have. All four of you are completely certain, but only two of you can be right. So in three or four months, this is all going to play out, and two of you will look ridiculous.

What to debate all this? I've rejoined by two of the three panelists you saw there, and a fourth panelist who had just left the debate. Cheng Yuga, founder of the CEO of the Young Turks, Carrie Lake, the senior advisor to the US agency for global media, Gillian Tet, a financial times columnist, and Geraldo Rivera, news nation editor at large, who's subbing in for Batia as our blue tariff sympathiser.

Well, welcome to all of you. Let me start with you, Gillian, because I think it's fair to say you know more about economic matters than probably the rest of us put together. So where are we with this? It's been four months of what appears to be chaos. Trump would argue controlled chaos and that he's begun to do some big deals

and that the markets are pretty much as strong as they were, if not stronger, the before Liberation Day. What is your take? Because obviously the Labor numbers came out a couple of days ago which showed that they were revising back to pretty low numbers, which indicates that perhaps the real impact of a tariff haven't been fully factored in yet. Give me your expert assessment.

Okay, bottom line is we just don't know yet. It's too early to make a judgment. And I'll say two key points. Firstly, Goldman Sachs used to teach its new recruits to distinguish between goal, strategy and tactics. I think it's critical to do that with the Trump administration because the goal in general is to make America great and make the Trump family wealthy, I'd argue.

The strategy is to reorganize or work. reorientate the world's global financial, economic and trading system. And the tactics are all the tariffs, the drama, the threats, the bullying, etc., etc. And it's important not to confuse the tactics from the strategy, let alone the goal. Now, if you're asking, has Trump team managed to reorientate the wider global financial and trading system? Well, the answer is, yes, absolutely. They are on route to doing that in a way that's very shocking for many people who grew up in the neoliberal order. or the post-World War II Keynes in order. If you're asking, has this helped the economy to boom or not,

we just simply do not know yet. Because thus far, the tariffs have not had nearly as damaging an impact on the economy as people had feared on Liberation Day. That may be because Trump was right and the economists were wrong. It may also be because we're seeing a massive time lag effect because massive companies have stockpiled lots and lots of goods and they're still basically using up those stockpiles, and so we won't know for several months.

Well, there's another explanation, which is that the markets are betting on the taco phenomenon, Trump always chickens out, and that most investors are assuming that sooner or later Trump will simply water down the tariffs. We just don't know which of those explanations is correct right now. Fascinating. Okay, well, I want to play a click, check, before I come to you, of Bill Maher. This is Bill Maher making a stunning confession.

I know not everybody lives by the stock market, but I also drive around. I don't see a country in a depression at all. I see people out there just living their lives. And I would have thought, and I got to own it, that these tariffs were going to fucking sink this economy by this time. And they didn't. So, you know, how do we deal with that fact? Now, Cheng, would you like to make a similar admission that you were completely wrong in painting your apocalyptic warnings? Are you insane? I was completely right. So let's break it down. So there was two parts of that conversation. One was, I said, Trump's put in 145% tariffs. These will never last. They're maniacal. There's no chance that he follows through on them. Who was right and who was wrong? There is literally,

something named taco, Trump always chickens out, that's how right I was. They even made a name for it. And I'd like to serve some tacos to carry Lake today. So on that portion, indisputably correct. Okay. So now the second portion is, are the tariffs going to hurt the economy? Our conversation wasn't, now, Bill Maher, I don't know why he does that. Look, I like that Bill talks to people on the other side. I like that Bill's reasonable about what Trump got right or wrong, right? nobody said there was going to be an apocalyptic depression especially when he pulled back most of the tariffs so people thought if he really does the 145 percent tariffs then yeah that's maniacal that'll you know it can't possibly work it'll destroy the economy guess who also agreed

with that Donald Trump that's why he pulled them back right so still now there's way too many tariffs so when it's at about 18.3 percent overall that's six times higher than it used to be so now it is beginning to have effect. So it's not 145. It didn't kill the whole trade, right? But still, that's beginning to hurt trade. It didn't get applied for a long, long time. It's now being applied, and what's happening? Job numbers

are going down. The GDP in the last six months, clearly much lower than it was during the last two years of Biden. So if you thought the Biden economy was bad, this one is worse. Now, at the same time, like we said, since he pulled almost all the

monstrous tariffs back, we haven't really begun to see the effects. And by the way, I don't know how long he's going to go with this, right? So if he stays at around 15 to 20 percent, that number is still way too high, and we'll start to have significant impacts on our economy as we're beginning to see now. All right. Carrie Lake, it's still, I think Gillian's right. It's too early to make any clear, firm determination about whether this will all work or not. I certainly think in relation to the 145 percent tariffs, you and I have known. Donald Trump a long time, as of you, Geraldo.

And everything but Trump is a negotiation. If you read his book, the art of a deal, it's no surprise that he would start very high with these things and negotiate down to a more reasonable level if he felt that people were being reasonable with him. I also think there's no doubt that if you look at the deal he's done with the European Union, which is a massive deal, then the winner of that surely is the United States of America

because the European Union is now paying more in tariffs than it was before, and they seem a bit more disconsolate about the way that deal has played out, certainly other European leaders, than Trump and his team do. So I can see some wins, I can see some interesting plays going on as we're speaking. For example, just a few minutes ago, Trump posted on his truth social.

India's not only buying massive amounts of Russian oil, they are there for much of the oil purchase, selling it on the open market for big profits. They don't care how many people in Ukraine are being killed by the Russia war machine. Because of this, I will be substantially raising the tariff paid by India to the United States. Thank you for your attention to this matter.

Now, that is a big statement from Trump, and it's a politically charged statement. He's using the fact that India is propping up Putin's regime in Russia at a time when Trump doesn't want anyone to be doing that as a justification for hiking up the tariffs between the US and India. Are you comfortable with him political? exercising these tariffs in this way, and do you believe that he's on the right track with the way the tariff war is playing out? What if you could delay your next two mortgage payments? That's right.

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States a good deal. And finally, open up markets that we've never been open, had access to. He's using tariffs to end wars. Look what he did with Cambodia and Thailand. He was ready to negotiate with both of them on their tariffs. And then all of a sudden he said, you know what? We're not going to have the meeting unless you end this war. He's ended five wars. He's increased the production for America. We're going to watch as manufacturing grows in such a massive way in this country because we're back in business. And we've had the world open. to us, markets that weren't open to us before. You're going to start seeing American cars in

Europe. You're going to see American cars in Japan. And bigger yet, we're watching as these countries are investing in America to the tune of hundreds of billions of dollars, Japan just announced a $550 billion investment in America. The EU is going to be purchasing $750 billion in American energy and making a $600 billion investment in America. This is, we are just seeing the beginning of this. Now when the next step happens, when the Fed finally lowers rates, which I believe they will, this thing is going to turn into the greatest economy the world has ever seen. We're on the verge of it right now.

Harald, welcome back. You're on Fantasy Island. I'm sorry, Jake. I know you're upset. Your Canadian beer got a little more expensive, but you know what? The American class is coming back, and that might make you sad. It makes me very happy to see the American middle class coming back. Hey, Carrey, on Tuesday on Monday.

Let me, hang on, hang on, hang out, Jillian, quick point from you then, and Harada. Very quickly, that no sooner were the deals announced, I'm putting that in quotation marks, with Japan and the EU, became very unclear that the Japanese think that they have not agreed to invest in a way that's going to leave all the profits flowing to the American government, nor does the EU. There's actually enormous amounts of uncertainty about what actually has been agreed. So yes, there have been made for TV and tweet deals,

left, right and centre, but they're not actually clear what's actually been agreed at all, least of all in the investment. So I think it's too premature to champion hundreds of billions of dollars of investment coming to America, because EU and Japan do not think they've signed up to that.

Okay, before I go to that... Hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on, sorry, hang on. Before I go to Geraldo, Gillian, on that point, is your assessment that America's done better out of the EU tariff deal than the EU has? It's done better in the sense that it's displayed more resolution and force. It's made it clear that the corporate governance model in Europe is no match right now for the White House. So yes, it looks on the face of it as if US has done better in the short term. However, in the medium to long term, firstly, it's actually.

actually not clear what's been agreed to because the two sides do not agree about that. Secondly, the obvious response of the EU to this is to start trying to channel supply chains elsewhere. So in the medium term, it's not clear who's actually going to end up being the winner here. Okay, Haraldor, thank you for your patience and welcome back, as I said. But you've made Donald Trump a long time. You've learned Trump even longer than I have. We know him well. We know how he operates.

This is classic Trump, this liberation war. But I do feel, if I'm in the Trump camp, I remember a lot of people talking in an apocalyptic way when he launched this and saying it's going to crash the economy, crash the markets, will never recover, all our allies around the world will hate us and so on. None of that has materialized so far. In fact, I looked at the stock market before I came in today and he's absolutely roaring again, even today.

day, it spiked up, despite this news coming in the last few days. So the market seems remarkably relaxed about what Trump is doing. How do you feel about it? I think that the evidence suggests very strongly peers and nice to see everybody, that Trump is right, that the United States has been getting screwed in international trade. The fact that these tariffs are being born and the inflation has not meaningfully been adversely affected in the United States. More evidence that what Trump really had the idea, you know, and I think that it's brilliant, and I never would have thought of it, that the global trade situation had been rigged against the United States, the fact that these nations are willing to bear these 15% and more

tariffs, further indication that they also know that the United States has been getting shafted. I've traveled recently to Germany and to Japan. Not one single American car did I see. It is shocking how the American manufacturing sector has been really treated very badly by the international community. But also, and very significantly, it is clear to me. It is clear to me, that if a country can bear these tariffs and the way the EU has accepted this deal, at least in the preliminary stages, it really is very, very clear that Trump in his, sometimes you may dislike him intensely politically. There are a lot of things about Trump and his administration, particularly in the area of immigration that I am absolutely vehemently opposed to.

but when I see a deal like this and knowing him, as you suggest, Pierce for so long, it seems to me that he has whatever, maybe it is a sheer luck, but it seems to me that the United States has borne the cost of many of these perks for decades now. And he says, Basta, he says enough. And it's to me, when Trump sends a, signal that he's going to reward the American taxpayer by cutting them checks coming from the bounty that these tariffs have yielded. You know, this is really, I think, a very big positive for Trump.

I can't see this upend any time soon, Pierce. Okay. Carrie, the one thing I don't, I do have a problem with is him firing the head of the Bureau of Labor Statistics because he didn't like the job numbers without producing any evidence whatsoever that she had done anything to rig these numbers. In fact, all the experts I've seen talking about, including this morning on CNN, a guy who used to do her job, said that actually the person at the top doesn't even see the numbers until right before they announced them, let alone get involved or meddle with them or anything else. I don't like it when Donald Trump does that, because all it shows is that he's prepared to play politics without

showing people actually any evidence of wrongdoing, and it makes it look like he is trying to rig the system. No, he wants somebody who knows what they're doing, and the only mistake made there was that this person wasn't fired sooner. The BLS Bureau of Labor Statistics has been putting out absolutely bogus numbers for years. During the Biden administration of one year, she was off, the BLS was off by 1.18 million jobs that they over-est, and then they had to scale it back and say, oops, we had too many jobs in that report. They really weren't created.

Let us scale it back several months later. And it's these bogus numbers that have been being put out. President Trump wants competency. The only mistake made was that this person wasn't fired sooner. He wants the truth, transparency, and competency, and we haven't been getting that with the BLS. And now perhaps we'll get somebody in there who knows what the hell they're doing. There's a lot going on with the global economy.

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Just text my name, Peers, P-I-E-R-S, to the number 989-8-8-8-8. Again, text Peers to 9-89-8-8-8-8. Consider diversifying a portion of your savings into gold. That way, if the fake can't stay ahead of the curve, at least you can stay ahead for yourself. All right, check. I presume you don't agree with that assessment. Yeah, no, I don't. Look, all this happy talk is nonsense.

So, like, you guys have found a point when the stock market is not collapsed, and you're like, yay, he didn't collapse the stock market. Congrats, okay. But, look, in terms of tariffs, we're having a ridiculous conversation. If you do reciprocal tariffs so that both sides bring the tariffs down, that makes a lot of sense. Then our consumers pay less, and we get it, But that's not what he's doing.

He's putting on more tariffs, so they're charging us more and we're charging them more. That hurts both of our economies. And that has already begun to happen. And that is why Trump fired the head of the Bureau of Labor Statistics because he didn't like the facts. He wants new facts. Now, look, here's a reality. Anyone who's followed us at all knows that they put out certain job numbers. Those are estimates.

And later they come back and verify, and they are almost always changed. so because there were estimates in the first place. So if Donald Trump is right, that she's playing with the numbers. Yeah, hold on. She was off by 1.2 million. Three hundred billion people living in the U.S. Hold on. Let me explain.

Guys, let me explain. So first of all, so I run a business. I want a warden. I understand how this stuff works. Okay. So everyone knows that those job numbers are estimates and then the real numbers come in. If Trump's theory was correct,

then that means, she inflated Trump's numbers for the last two months. If she's out to get Trump, why does she greatly inflate Trump's numbers? No, she's not inflating the numbers. Everyone knows Kevin O'Leary said and Trump supporters say, anyone who understands the economy understands, no, what she did was perfectly normal. And here's a real bigger problem than any of this.

When you have a politician who says, I don't like the facts, so I'm going to fire the person bringing me facts, and I'm going to replace them with a political hatchet man who's just going to tell me what I want to hear, whether it's true or not. Then there's a literal phrase for that. It's called, we're saying we don't want factual correctness, we want political correctness.

So that's exactly what Trump is doing here. And honestly, it has banana republic energy when you start firing people just for telling the truth. And that's a disastrous place for the country. Okay, Jillian. What's the reality? Yeah, Julia, what's the reality here about this Bureau of Labor Statistics? The reality is that the American statistical system,

like most Western statistical systems, has challenges and has had challenges for years. That's been well known. So nobody is saying that there can't be ways of improving the data. They definitely can be. And with the BLS, that's been known for a long time to have challenges, which should go well-beloned to any individual person. But I strongly agree to start firing such. because he don't like the numbers, makes you look like an autocrat, banana republic, whatever

word you want to use. If Trump was really concerned about the quality of statistics, what he should have done when he arrived is start investing more in the statistical service. On the contrary, he's been slashing the funding. He's been forcing them to take down all kinds of data pages and statistics. He's done more to smash apart the statistical system since he arrived in office by ripping down all these pages of data than any other president. has done for a long time. So to turn around now and say he's removed the head of the BLS because he doesn't

like the quality of statistics is beyond parody ironic laughter. If he cared about this, he should have not done what he did in the last four or five months, which have done more damage than anyone else. And this type of action, coupled with the attacks on the Fed, are making investors in the markets increasingly concerned about the long-term credibility of the US. And the way to measure that is not with the stock market, which is being hyped up and pumped up right now by all kinds of teacot trades and things like that, it's by looking at the bomb market. And the bomb market is where you can see the real signs of concern, because a long-term cost of borrowing has shot up compared to the short-term cost of borrowing, in spite of Treasury Besson doing every single

trick in the book to try and keep rates down. And that's where you can really see the signs of investor concern. I'm strongly in the opinion that what Trump did with BLS-H, is a disaster. And in relation to Jerome Powell, is this now a time for him to reduce the rates? So normally, when you have GDP data coming out stronger than expected, which is what we had last week,

there's a time when you don't start slashing rates, least of all doing what Trump has suggested, which is slashing rates to 1%, which would be seriously negative rates, and it would be like throwing kerosene on a bonfire and creating a massive complagration and a huge inflationary spike. In reality, I personally think as a very strong chance,

we're heading towards stagflation, which is lower growth, higher inflation in the coming months, as the impact of the tariffs finally starts a bite. I do not think we've actually seen the feed-through from the tariffs whatsoever yet in terms of the proper data. And in that situation, you have a very nasty choice and no central bank ever wants to be coping with stagflation. So I think it's entirely rational,

them to sit in their hands and say, we're going to wait and see a bit longer. However, the critical point that everybody is missing is this. It's not just about short-term rates. That is what the Fed can control. It's about long-term rates, 10-year rates, which are set by market investors reflecting investor competence. And what's happened since January, the most important thing is that have gapped out dramatically because investors are concerned about the long-term credibility of America.

And if you start slashing rates on the say-so of the president, then you're going to see that gap increasing. And it's a 10-year rate, Carrie, that matters to mortgage holders and people like that. And that's determined by whether or not investors trust the American fiscal situation and the credibility for the long term. OK, Carrie, your response to that? Yep. Well, the entire way that we are watching our economy work is being changed under President Trump.

And what we're seeing happening right now is a return to hiring America. And we talked a little bit about job numbers. And these numbers reflect moving away from basically a workforce based on government workers. And we're seeing in the private sector. All of the jobs created were in the private sector. All of the jobs went to American workers. Conversely, under Biden, we saw bogus numbers from the BLS. And then all of the jobs created were for foreign-born,

workers or foreign workers, and all of the job losses were for American workers. We're watching a reset and we're getting things back on track for a very strong American economy. Is it going to happen overnight? No, but it's happening rather quickly. And now we're going to start seeing the investments pouring in. We're allowing manufacturing to build back up. That's going to take a little time to build these factories. But President Trump is setting everything up to make it easy to build these factories, to build manufacturing, and to actually be able to write off all the expenses to do that, and then hire more Americans for those jobs. We are just seeing the tip of the iceberg, and it's going to be amazing when we see the growth coming. America is the place to invest.

American jobs are coming back, and I know it upsets people like Chang when things start turning the corner, because then you can't complain about stuff on his show. But what we need to do is empower the American worker. President Trump is doing exactly that. Can I just really jump in and say? I agree with briefly, very briefly, I agree with some of that, okay, I do believe that some of that's correct in terms of the job pattern. However, Carrie, you're citing the same data that you're saying, the jobs data that you say is so terrible that we can't rely on it.

So one of my problems with what's going on right now is that if President Trump was so upset about the quality of statistics, why does he cite them when he likes them and ignore them when he doesn't? I'd say, for me, what would it be having a serious congressional overhaul of statistics and investment into statistics, put the data up, put all those, restore all those data pages that America's army of hidden success decisions have been saving, downloading on their own computers, because they were so appalled by wiping out all this public repository of data. But you can't cherry-pick some statistics you like and ignore and decry the ones you don't. I would just say two things. Number one, the stock market may not be the greatest indicator of how the U.S. economy is going, but it's the primary indicator for millions of American investors like myself. And you cannot poo-poo.

It's 44,000 odd again. It's in the green heavily again. That is for real. The other thing I would say is the fact that you have not seen a spike in. in inflation in the six months of Trump, despite the tariffs, is because it is clear to me, or maybe I surmise that these sellers, the manufacturers, have been overpricing, and they are eating these tariff costs because that they know that they are being watched. And so I think they are not raising the prices of their products because there's plenty of margin for them.

And they've been doing quite well, as reflected by their stocks. So that's just the way I see. More and more Americans are putting their health first, getting back into shape. But diet and cardio are not enough. If you want to build muscle and burn fat, you must do strength training. That's why I'm delighted to be working with jacked up fitness. They're all-in-one home gyms, our best in class, and they're all-a-old. All-new X-Series elevates home fitness to a new level.

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And when you're ready to buy your own Jacked Up, Power Rack Extreme, use the promo code Peers, as P-I-E-R-S, to save 10%. That's get-jacked-up.com, code peers. Okay, I want to bring Chinkin and just slightly change the... Can I just say, we're having earnings calls right now. And what's becoming clear is that most... We're literally, we're having the earnings calls at this very moment this week. And if you listen to the earnings calls, what they're all saying is that they prepared for

Armageddon after Liberation Day for 145%. They are more relieved that it's come right down. However, they've been stockpiling massively, and they're still in a wait-and-sea mode. Most of them don't yet know where they're going to actually pass on or not pass on the tariff-increased costs. Yeah, I think that's right. We just don't know.

I want to just change the issue in relation to the economy slightly. I want to talk about immigration, because there's a lot going on here with immigration and the Trump administration. I saw yesterday that apparently net migration to United States is that the lowest has been for many decades right now, which is not entirely surprising. I think given what's happened on the southern border, that's been a huge success and stopping the enormous number of people coming in illegally,

but it also puts a big spotlight on what ICE has been doing. And it just seems to me, I've had a few chats with a few Americans over the weekend, all different types of Americans, to gauge, I mean, California now, I was in New York, and, you know, I haven't been in the middle of America, so it may be that things are different now. I can ask Carrie about that soon. But in relation to what I think the gut feeling of most average Americans is, I get the sense that if Trump had focused on undocumented people in the United States who commit crimes and deported all of those, including all those who've been waiting to be.

deported who were in that position. Most Americans would completely agree with that. But they do not agree most Americans. And a poll suggested, I'm right about this. Significant majority do not agree that the same should apply to people who've come in illegally, who are undocumented, but who have built a life in the United States, like so many millions before them, have maybe got a job, they're paying taxes, they're contributing to the economy, contributing to society.

They maybe have some children. I don't get the sense that most Americans are comfortable with these raids on places like Home Depot, throwing people like that out of the country. So I understand the argument that Trump puts forward and his people put forward, that it's a deterrent and that if you're here illegally, you're here illegally. But it feels to most Americans un-American to be doing it to those people. What's your assessment? Yeah, as you know, I'm not a normal partisan here. So, for example, Trump did a good job of closing the border. So I live in the real world, and I don't mind saying that at all. I want good things for America. I'm going to connect these two topics. Look, guys, we've got to live in the reality-based world. So Japan, Trump is bragging that they gave $550 million in investments. No, they clarified. No, it's loans. That's because we borrow so much to give more tax cuts for the rich, et cetera, right? So just be honest about it. There are loans. They're not investments.

And so when you start playing around and with, and by the way, manufacturing guys takes three to four years. So this fantasy land that manufacturing base is going to explode soon is just doesn't make any sense. But he's doing everything to speed that up with getting rid of regulations, speeding through regulations. Okay. Now, I know that's, I know that helps corporate rule. The corporations love it. Now, look, when you start juggling hand grenades, as Trump is doing both with the economy and on this inflation issue, at some point you're going to drop them. So you guys are super psyched that all your rich friends are doing well in the stock market, et cetera. So I want this noted.

So when the stock market does poorly, I don't want you changing any of the goal, moving the goalposts and going, oh, no, no, now that's because of Biden or Jimmy Carter or something. So you can't have it both ways. He's going to drop a couple of these grenades, and things are going to go poorly. That's my prediction. Thank you. So now I'm not worried about, I'm not worried about the rich folks like. Hold on, hold on. Let me answer the immigration part. Carrie. Yeah, sure, sure. All right. So now, the tie to immigration, guys, if he appears 100% right. If he just closed the border, he probably would have been at like 80% approval on immigration. Right now, he's significantly negative in immigrant. How could you close the border, which Americans really, really wanted and still be negative on the issue of immigration? And the way that you do it is you become needlessly cruel. I know that some of the radicals. right, love it, they love the idea of the people

getting eaten by alligators, et cetera. But even most of Trump's voters, let alone the rest of the country, don't want that. They don't want needless cruelty. They just didn't want out of control undocumented immigration in the country. And they definitely didn't want the undocumented immigrants who were criminals. So if

he'd also done that, which he was doing, again, he would have been super popular. But when he says, we're going to have meeting by alligators and we're going to, we're going to, okay, that's not cruel. That's unbelievable. That gives you your answer. You mean taking rapists and murderers off the streets and locking them up and sending them out of the country?

I just said it. I just said it. I'll tell you what's needlessly cruel is Lake and Riley. Can I finish the comment? Can I finish the carry? Let me finish the comment. Let Shane finish his point and then Carrie, you respond. Yeah.

Yeah, eat your taco while I finish this point. So on immigration, when he starts snatching up people from in the middle of the country, when they're going to work, when they're at Home Depot, when they're picking up, up their kids from school. Americans hated. I said that the independent podcasters like Joe Rogan, Tim Dillon, et cetera, would turn on that. And they did. And they did. And they're all now saying, brother, we didn't sign up for this. We signed up for you getting rid of the criminals and closing the border. But once you start taking our neighbors away, and you send in, why do you need ice agents with masks? If you're proud of what you're doing

and what you're doing is right, you don't need to be masked up like some thugs. The fact that they're wearing the mask gives you a sign that what they're doing is stupid and wrong and immoral and people don't like it. That is why the American people are weighing in saying stop. This is not what we asked for. And Kerry, you could say this fantasy land about how, oh my God, 80% of Americans want Alligator Arbitrises and they want these. It's just not true. It was also, by the way, grabbing legal residents. His day job is below me. Carrey, Carrie, before you respond, before you respond, Carrie. I just want to say that it was a Fox news poll, because I was on Fox

a lot last week, and I was really struck by this poll. The Fox News poll was the one that said that I think three quarters of America, just under, opposed throwing out and deporting people who were in the country undocumented, but hadn't broken

laws. So do you not think on that that Trump has got so much of this right? The southern border has been effectively closed, and that's an amazing triumph. It's a a short period of time, particularly given what Biden allowed to happen on the border. But I do feel that it's just gone too far in picking people up in Home Depot, off the streets, and throwing them out. I don't think that is playing well with the American people.

I don't care if it's a Fox News poll or a CNN poll. To me, they're both the same. It doesn't matter. People want illegals brought out of this country sent back to their homeland. We are creating millions of homecomings, repatriating people, to their country. It's not cruel. It's not cruel. We're paying for them to go back. We're sending them back. Not many other countries would do that. They came here illegally, and they have to go home. And I won't be satisfied until every young American male has a job. Whenever young American male has a job, whenever young American female who wants to work has a job. Do you get the young American males to work in the fields in California in 100-degree heat? Give me a call.

I think that it is absolutely What they are doing. So you want to bring in slave labor. You have to wear masks. You want to take jobs like that. You have to wear masks. When you have to wear masks to do your job, cops don't wear masks,

FBI agents don't wear masks. You know better than that. These people, these ice agents. Why is it uniquely, why is it? These ice agents are rounding us cartel members. By law enforcement.

They have to be anonymous because they are embarrassed to be. No, that's not true. I'm embarrassed. I'm embarrassed for you right now. It is appalling for you. It is an embarrassment to every cop when they watch and see what's happening. There's no connection between these ICE agents and the communities they seek to serve. There is no.

I'm embarrassed. I'm embarrassed for you that you don't care. You don't care about a law enforcement. And I'm embarrassed that you don't understand. Okay, but Carrie, okay, let me jump in. Let me finish this. This is important. Let me jump in.

This is important. Carrie, let me ask you a question. We're talking about the life or death of a law enforcement officer. And everyone on this person doesn't seem to care that they are tracking down cartel members, dangerous people. They have to go home. They don't want to be dogs and have their service. Hang on.

Hang on, I've not heard anybody say, nobody has said that criminals should not be deported. That's not the point. And I think my question for you, Carrie, is there are estimated to be anywhere between 50 and 100 million people in the United States right now who are undocumented. If you take your argument to its logical extension, then you would destroy the American economy. If you deported every undocumented person in America right now, the American economy, the American economy, would collapse. Is that what you really think is a good move? I don't want the American economy to collapse. I want to deport people who are here illegally, and the American people want that as well. But they don't. The polls show that they don't.

They want criminals. They want undocumented criminals deported. From a moral perspective, I think snatching people off the street in this way, if they have not committed crimes and deporting them, using deliberate cruelty through things like Alligator Alcatraz is appalling. However, on the economic perspective, which I'm sure is what people expect me to talk about, and by the way, Kerry, I'm not disputing it for a millisecond the need to deport people who are criminals.

But on the economic point of perspective, I do not think the American public understands the potential economic cost of deporting, you know, as you say, all of the undocumented workers or even part of them, because it's going to create a real impact on the American economy, both in terms of slowing growth, but also in terms of raising wages and essentially contributing more to inflation, both of which are stackflationary on top of the

tariffs. We have not seen the impact of that yet. And yes, automation, yes, AI can help with some of that. But the modelling is out there right now about the potential impact of a mass deportation is really very significant. And in some ways, the medium to long-term impact of that will be more significant than tariffs in terms of tipping America towards deflation. If I can finish my thought just for one second, what we've established here is that Chank wants our ICE officers to have their entire lives in turmoil potentially hurt or murdered by a bunch of gangbangers and

cartel members that they are rounding up because he doesn't want their face covered. We have not established that. And Geraldo has said he wants to bring in slave labor to pick crops. Is that what I'm gathering here? I do agree with Kerry. I do agree with Carrie. Well, hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on. I do agree with Carrie about that point.

I think they wear masks because they are actually deporting and catching a lot of criminals as well. Cartel members. Two types of people. Yeah. I was a nice man. I would protect myself. What about a cop on the beat? What about a detective?

What about a court officer? What about an FBI agent? Aren't they disrupting the lives of the people they're apprehending? Of course they are. They're law enforcement. They're the good guys. You know how dangerous the cartels are? Masked to disguise them.

You know how dangerous the cartels are? I know how dangerous the mafia. No, no, no. I think that the... Okay, masks are symbolic of this whole issue. Masks are symbolic. It is the exact barometer of how America feels about this activity, the fact that they have to be anonymous.

They have to cover their faces to do their jobs. It is absolutely. The hypocrisy. The hypocrisy. Millied. It's the left who wanted us all masked. Remember, the left wanted us all masked up. They wanted us to be masked up.

And now you don't want an officer who's rounding up gang members to wear a mask. Very eminical mad. I don't like masks of any kind. I don't like masks. I think the criminals wear masks. If you had to go arrest cartel members, you'd want to have a mask on. People who want to go to the Home Depot and steal stuff.

Those are the people who wear masks. If you had to go out and arrest for the hotel members, you would want to wear a mask to catch yourself. Time out. Before we finish, I want to ask Carrie this and then go to the others about this. Very interesting interview with Charlemagne the God, the Breakfast Club host. He was predicting that Donald Trump's handling of the Jeffrey Epstein scandal could embolden traditional conservatives to take their party back.

Take a look. I think that traditional conservatives are going to take the Republican Party back. I think there's a political coup going on right now in the Republican Party that people aren't paying attention to. Oh, interesting. Yeah, I think that this Epstein thing is going to. to be a way for traditional conservatives to take their party back. Carrey, my first question is, do you agree that's been handled very badly? You know, I'm going to be honest.

I have been so engrossed in what I'm doing, which is working on the agency I'm overseeing. I've followed Epstein, not as much as some people. What I'm particularly pleased with that's happening with this administration. Let me finish, Chank. Let me finish. We were talking about young, underage girls and boys being abused, right? President Trump is actually helping to find young people who are currently involved in sex abuse, sex trafficking, and he's saving them right now. The people who are currently involved, while they might not have been involved in the Epstein scandal, they are involved in this horrendous world in the sex trade, the underage sex trade, and they are rescuing those kids.

As a mother, I'm concerned about the kids who are actually in track. Carrie, Carrie, that's a bit of... Okay, but Carrie, that's a bit different. I mean, Chek, let me bring you in. I think... I think we'll get to the bottom of Epstein, by the way. I think we'll get to the bottom of it, and I do think eventually everything will come out.

Okay, well, it should do. And, Chink, my issue with the way it's been handled is that the Trump administration took everybody to the water's edge. Very deliberately, I had some of the administration on this show saying it's all going to come out, we're going to reveal everything, it's going to be full accountability. And then two things happened. Elon Musk, when he fell out with Trump,

suddenly posts on his ex-platform, the biggest bombshell is that Trump's in the Epstein files. And within two weeks, the administration announces the whole Epstein scandal is being shut down. That's what calls the furority of conspiracy theories, running right and everything else. It was just very badly handled. Now, I've not seen any evidence.

that Donald Trump did anything wrong with Jeffrey Epstein, other than he was his friend, like a lot of rich, famous people that Epstein collected over the years, and then he disowned him. However, the way they've handled this has been very damaging. And Charlemagne, the Gulf raises an interesting point. It's the first time really we've seen

where a lot of people on the MAGA side have felt so let down, they've been prepared to openly criticize the president. I think that's quite significant. Yeah, look, as you know, I've been trying to unite Democrats and Republicans in terms of the voters. I mean, I just did a Jubilee where I took on Democrats and Republicans defending politicians, right? And on this issue, a lot of MAGA and certainly the better voters have been really good. They're holding their own leader accountable.

And I wish the Democrats had done that with Joe Biden and his age, et cetera. And so I give them a lot of credit for that. And this is a place where you can tell the difference between politicians and partisans and actual voters. Because the partisans will try to defend the indefensible, which is what Trump is doing now, right? So when Trump was talking about releasing the abstin files, I was in favor of that. So now he turns around and goes, not only am I not releasing them, there are no clients at all. We're not going to prosecute a single person. Then on top of that, he layers in Galane Maxwell.

The only other person who was prosecuted is now going to a minimum security. prison. Why? You normally need an exceptional exemption to be able to transfer a child rapist to a minimum security prison. But they just did it willy-nilly. I mean, if he lets her go, this country is going to explode. And it's not, look, I wish the left was more powerful. And I think that people should go populist left, right? But when you have the left and the right, then it becomes super powerful. And so if he thinks he's going to just cover this up and he's going to people like Carrie come on here and make excuses. It's never going to work. It's not

even working with his own voters, which I give them a ton of credit for. We need to actually don't tell me that the girls were raped, but nobody raped them. That's a preposterous thing to say. And look, is Trump in the files? Look, his name is all, hold on, this is really important.

His name is all over, but I get it because he was really, really good friends with Jeffrey Epstein. They were nearly best friends for about 15 years, and both have said that. But that doesn't mean that he did the Trumps. So a great, and if he's innocent, a great way to show that is to fully release all the files, including the tapes, by the way, because we know there's tapes. And my guess is that that's not going to happen, not because of Trump, but because under both Biden, Trump, Democrat, and Republicans, they cover this up. Why? Very likely, because it's an intelligence agency, and they're both

getting orders under no circumstances. Are you to release this? Because think about it. If an intelligence agency did it, how mad would the American people be? if they authorize the rape of American children to get blackmail to use and manipulate our politicians. That would be a fury like you've never seen before. I did say I do think this will come out though, Chank. I think it will come out of whatever there is there. Well, well, it hasn't so far.

Final word, Haraldah, you covered a lot of stories over the years. This Epstein scandal isn't going away, and I think the way the Trump administration's handled it has been very self-harming. What's your take? I believe that Trump has blundered in it. And I also think that you're absolutely right in terms of the friendship between Epstein

and the president over the years. And it is embarrassing. There's lots of pictures, lots of videos. Even on tape, you hear Trump extolling the virtue of Epstein's pursuit of very young girls. You know, so I think all of that is very embarrassing but to me, the real story with Epstein is, how did he become so rich?

What did he do to become a billionaire and get this influence over all of these people? You know, you can't, as rich as the markets may be or bright as, you know, he was, wasn't he a teacher at Dalton School in New York? And then all of a sudden he's a multi-trillionaire. I want to follow the money. I just follow the money.

and I believe that that's where you'll see real embarrassment and heads will fall when we find out exactly how he got so rich. Okay, Gillian, final, final word to you, given Joe Haraldos teed you up with money. Would you agree with that? I would say follow the money. It's always a very, very good way to proceed. And I think there are many questions around the Epstein story.

I do think the question of how he got so rich is absolutely at the heart of it because to go from being adult and teacher to supposedly being a brilliant bunny manager simply does not make sense. I think there's a whole shadier aspect to it has not been revealed publicly yet. And boy, is ironic that a MAGA movement

that was fuelled by conspiracy theories is now essentially turning itself inside out around new conspiracy theories against the chief conspiracy theory magician of all. Can we all agree on one thing? It's fascinating. Well, can we all agree on one thing really quickly? We have to admit that we're happy that President Trump is working with the children who have been trafficked into this country, illegally, and sent into either forced labor because they're making children work.

Yes, I think we can all agree on that. And also the sex trade. He is saving tens of thousands of children from that as we speak. This other stuff will sort itself out and eventually will come out. Yeah, I think we can agree on that. but I do think the Epstein scandal has a long way to run yet. And the bottom line is Gilane Maxwell is a woman, and she's been the only person so far,

put in prison and held accountable for what Epstein did with all his male friends, two young women. And I think we still agree that that is absolutely important. Yeah. I mean, that one fact is just completely draw dropping. Yeah. I've got to...

I'll probably run out of time. I'll tell you what. Very quickly, Chang. Otherwise, we're going to get with you. And finally, for the next two hours. Yeah. One last amazing fact for everybody to think about. Gilae Maxwell's dad was Robert Maxwell,

legendary Mossad spy that stole Americans' nuclear secrets and gave them to Israel. So that legendary Israeli spy's daughter just happened to be involved in the Epstein case and the U.S. government can't tell us who did it under Democrats or Republicans. That is very curious. Well, there's a lot of very curious and answer questions here.

And actually, I'm looking forward to Gilein Maxwell and what she's been saying. Because I imagine the reason they've put her into a less high security prison is that she's been singing like a canary. So we will find out. But anyway, it's been great to get the panel back. I feel like getting the old bam back together was great. Let's do it again in four more months and see how all your predictions are fair then. Thank you all very much.

Morgan Unsensit is proudly independent. The only boss around here is me. If you enjoy our show, we ask for only one simple thing. Hit subscribe on YouTube and follow Piers Morgan Unsensit on Spotify and Apple Podcast. And in return, we will continue our mission to inform, irritate and entertain. And we'll do it all for free. Independent Unsensored Media has never been more critical, and we couldn't do it without you.