Piers Morgan Uncensored - “Going To Change HISTORY” Mamdani WINS NYC Mayoral Election | With Vinny Oshana

Episode Date: November 5, 2025

Zohran Mamdani is the new mayor of New York City, much to the chagrin of Republicans. After winning with a populist campaign, turbocharged by social media, the 34-year-old socialist wasted no time in aiming his firepower at President Donald Trump - and the jury is very much out on whether he can really deliver on government-run grocery stores, free buses and free childcare, among many other lavish pledges. But does his win hint towards a Democratic revival? Or could his individual triumph drag the party down a far-left rabbit hole to electoral oblivion? Joining Piers Morgan to debate this is PBD Podcast’s Angry Patriot Vinny Oshana, host of BET News Marc Lamont Hill, The Grayzone’s Aaron Mate, former DNC fundraiser Lindy Li and Republican strategist and pollster Frank Luntz. Piers Morgan Uncensored is proudly independent and supported by: Wild Alaskan Company: Get $35 off your first box of wild-caught, sustainable seafood—delivered right to your door. Go to: https://www.wildalaskan.com/PIERS Oxford Natural: To watch their full stories, scan the QR code on your screen or visit https://oxfordnatural.com/piers/to get 70% off your first order when you use code PIERS. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Donald Trump turned the volume up. And you told me 20 years ago that New York City would elect the mayor who is a Muslim guy, a terrorist sympathizer who is anti-cop. I would laugh in your face. Do you believe the NYPD is racist? Yes. Oh, God. There it is. Free buses, freeze the rent, universal child care.

All these policies are wildly popular. All that cool free stuff. Who's going to pay for it? Who's going to pay for it? Who's going to pay for it? For it. Venezuela, Cuba, Soviet Union. Give me an example. And I'll, hold on, I'll come with you.

I'm all in. New York will remain a city of immigrants. And as of tonight, led by an immigrant. Every American that's watching this, don't get it twisted. OK, Vinnie. The moment a Democrat comes into power, the border's wide open.

This is the long. I think the loser last night isn't the Republican Party. It's actually the American people. You were entertained by 2020, and a little bit scared about 2024. 2028 is going to be like the godfather, too. For the first time, in a long time, Democrats are waking up to that winning feeling.

It's not quite a political earthquake, but it's definitely a sizable tremor. And the epicenter is right here in New York City, where I am at the moment. Zaran Mamdani is the newly minted mayor of America's biggest city, and the 34-year-old socialist wasted no time in naming his firepower at President Donald Trump. So Donald Trump, since I know you're watching.

Well, Mayor Mamdani's socialist program is about to have an uncomfortable brush with reality. The jury is very much out on where they can really deliver on government-run grocery stores, free buses and free childcare, among many other lavish pledges. But the verdict on his campaigning style is resounding, and Democrats nationally will be taking notes. President Trump may call him a crazed communist, but he knows a canny operator when he sees one. Mamdani ran a populist campaign, turbo-charged by some. social media, which focused on massive changes to a failing status quo. It's all very familiar to the man currently in the White House. And Mamdani is the first prominent Democrat in what feels

like an aged campaign on something other than calling Trump a demonic fascist. So has Mam Darnie cracked the code for a democratic revival? Or could his individual triumph drag the party down a far left rabbit hole to electoral oblivion? Join me to debate all this on a massive night in US politics. Is PPD podcast Angry Patriot? Vincent O'Shanna, the co-host of her take and former Democratic strategist, Lindy Lee, the host of Bet News, Mark Lamont Hill, and a journalist at the Grey Zone Aramarte. So a great panel.

Let me start with you, Vin, you must be absolutely delighted that a self-declared socialist is now in charge of New York City. Oh, Pierce, being originally from Yonkers, New York, it's just, it's overwhelmingly just happy. I just, Pierce, if you told me, Pierce Morgan, told Vincent O'Shanna, 20 years ago that New York City would elect a mayor who is a Muslim guy, who is a terrorist sympathizer, who was anti-cop, who literally took a photo with a co-conspirator of the first world trade bombing.

Pierce, I would laugh in your face, but guess what? The joke is on me. And I'm telling you right now, Pierce, it's almost as if the dark night, the movie, Bain is there, Bain is going to be Mamdani, and you wait to see what he's going to do to the city. Okay, and Piers, let me back up a little bit. bit. Shame on the Republicans, first and foremost. They couldn't pick one good, energetic, pro-American patriot to run. No offense to Curtis Silva, but he's too old. He's too boring.

All right, the campaign was horrible. Pierce, and guess what? No Americans going to vote for a guy with a red beret. I'm sorry. That's number one. Number two, Democrats. All they had to put up to go against this guy, Pierce, was a failed mayor, Eric Adams, who made it a sanctuary city, brought in all the illegals, crime went up, gave them money, gave them credit cards, put them in hotels,

and then I was like, whoops, I'm sorry, I made the mistake. It was the Democrat leadership that made me do it. Cut to Andrew Cuomo, okay? Talk about a governor that failed.

He, the alleged sex scandal, whatever you want to call it, and then he killed how many thousands, thousands of poor, old grandmothers and grandfathers did he kill in New York? And guess when he apologized,

peers? not two years after, not three years, the day of the election, he goes, I'm sorry, I messed up, all right, which is absolutely horseshit. I'm sorry for my language, peers, but New York is going to get a taste of their medicine. I hate to say it, Pears, but sometimes you've got to let the kid touch the iron or let him burn himself until he learns his lesson, and they're going to learn their lesson in about one or two years. You'll see, peers. Well, like I thought, you'll jubilant about what's happened.

Let me go to Aramati. You were making a few expressions there as Vinnie. was unleashing. I mean, from my point of view, it's very interesting because you've got results last night, which overall, a lot of wins for the Democrats, obviously, which is a good thing, if you're a Democrat supporter. But two very distinct types of win. You've got the moderates winning, and then you've got Mamdani winning in New York, who's a self-declared socialist. These are very different pathways for the party to go. Many people feel that it's going to be problematic to have someone like MAMDani, who is incredibly charismatic, rapidly becoming the

face of the party, but a bit like with AOC and the others on the left, in a general election, highly unlikely to succeed with that kind of agenda. What do you think? I think the people of New York showed that Mammani is in touch with the grassroots of the Democratic Party and the majority of the country. If you can get past the fear modeling, we heard from Bini about Mombani being a terrorist sympathizer and all the other smears that are used to. dismiss a progressive agenda. He's not. He's just someone who believed that Palestinians are equal human beings.

And for people devoted to the state of Israel, they can't understand that concept because they're Jewish supremacists. They've internalized Jewish supremacy. But everybody else understand that in this era of Democrats and Republicans supporting a genocide, supporting an assault on working people,

someone like Mamdani is a reasonable alternative. Yes, he calls himself a democratic socialist. If you look at his policies, they're incredibly moderate. He wants to establish free buses for working people. He wants to freeze the rent in rent-stabilized departments. He wants to provide universal child care. All these policies are wildly popular. The difference is, and what's radical about him, is that he's centering working people. He's talking about issues that actually impact average people alive. Donald Trump promised to do all the things that Mom Dani has talked

about, but he hasn't. He's just delivered for his billionaire backers and the cabinet that that backs them up. So, Mondani, unlike everybody else, pretty much in U.S. politics, with some acceptance, it's actually speaking to average people of needs, including on the issue of Israel Palestine, where people were just fed up with both parties supporting genocide and gossip. Okay. Martin and Montemale. If you don't mind me, Pierce, Pierce, can I just, okay? Can I just say one thing? Did he not take a photo with the co-conspirator of the first world trade bonding? Did he not take a photo with that? Hold on, smiling, and I'm pretty sure you didn't say anything,

and all that stuff that you said, all that cool free stuff. Who's going to pay for it? Who is going to pay for it? Who is going to pay for it? I'm just curious. By the way, and show me one time that this has worked. Venezuela, Cuba, Soviet Union. Give me an example.

Give me a case study. And I'll, hold on, hold on, don't smile. I'll come with you. I'm all in. Show me when it worked, and I'll buy it. I'll buy it. Go ahead. Give it to me.

To answer your questions, to answer your questions in order, in the course of campaign, where candidates take pictures with literally thousands of people. He appeared in one photo with someone who was identified as an unindicted co-conspirator in a bomb. He was never even charged for. So, yes, people take photo ops all the time. Yeah.

Andrew Cuomo, excuse me. He was in the room. Excuse me. Give me a break, bro. Give me a point. That's not what that means. Andrew Cuomo has taken pictures with actual war criminals,

unlike Zoramamani, who rejects the endorsement of war criminals. In terms of how he's going to pay for it, he's already said, he's going to tax, the ultra, ultra, ultra, ultra wealthy a little bit more, who already make all the money in the world. That's who he's going to pay for his popular social programs. He's not proposing anything like we've seen in Cuba. They're all leaving. And guess who's leaving?

Guess who the mass exodus is going to be? Guess who the mac... Hold on. I just had a curiosity. They're going to leave. Hold on. You know what? You're not talking about? Who is going to come to New York? Who's going to come in New York? He wants to let people out of prisons.

Okay, think about it. He wants to give away free stuff. Hold on. And he's pro-illegal. What the hell is? going to happen to New York. You are, you, you're missing the whole point. People like you, people like you want to, people are going to pay for it. Okay, Benny, listen, people like you want to give away free stuff to foreign governments like Israel to slaughter innocent civilian. Is there my mom? Wait a minute. When have I ever said I'm pro? When have I ever said I'm pro

? When have I ever said that? Listen, don't put, don't put words on my mouth. By adopting, by adopting the smear. I pray for the innocent. I pray for the innocent women and children of Palestine. Don't put words on my mouth because, Aaron, you don't know me, but I know this spiel. And you have to bring up Donald Trump. You always, and this is the problem, peers, why these people have no leaders, no vision, no message, because for eight years, you've been saying Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, and when the dust settle, you have nobody. Let me.

Trump is the president. All right, guys. Time out. Time out. Time out. I want to bring, we got two other panel members. I want to bring them in. Martin de Bonn Hill, you know, I hear the things about Mamdani, which I like.

He's very charismatic. He's got a very clear identity. I think about what he stands for. He's an unashamed socialist. So he just says, this is what I am. Something admirable about someone who says, these are my political colours. It's fine.

I may not agree with him. He's an arsul fan, a very big arsul fan. He's been talking about this morning. So he's clearly got immaculate taste when it comes to his football teams. But here's the issue, isn't it, Mark, for the party, I think. If he turns out to be a massive success in New York,

Hallelujah. He might be the guy who ends up becoming the president, right? And the Democrat superstar, here he is now in charge of the biggest city in the country, on a very socialist agenda of giving all this stuff away. We've kind of seen a parallel for this in the UK with the Labour government who got swept in a year ago with a massive majority, and it's already crumbling at the seams. They're about to launch a massive tax raid on pretty much everybody. They're incredibly unpopular, and it's all gone pear-shaped, very much. very quickly. If that happens with Mamdani in New York, conversely, it becomes a referendum on the Democrats that their big star turned out to be, you know, a wolf in sheep's clothing. When was the last time you truly trusted the seafood you brought home? I used to second guess everything, nutrition, taste, sustainability and provenance until I found Wild Alaskan company. And I'm thrilled to say they're now sponsoring this show. Wild Alaskan delivers wild court, perfectly portion seafood directly to your door. No antibiotics, no additives, just clean, nutrient-rich fish which support healthy oceans and happy fishing communities. Their fish is frozen right off the boat

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And our thanks to Wild Alaskan Company for sponsoring this episode. Wow, that Wolf and Sheep's clothing would be a bit of a leap, even if he were somehow not successful. But I think that there are a few issues on the table here. One, we continue to call him a socialist. And I think it's important to reiterate that he identifies as a democratic socialist, right? And there are different types of socialism, and democratic socialism does not support the abolition of private property. It is not saying that there's no democratic elections.

Many of the kind of boogeyman references that are made to socialism don't apply to Mundani's vision or his self-identification any more than it does to AOC or any more than it does. to Bernie Sanders. I think one of the things we've learned in the last few years is that Democrats have played it far too safe. They're not speaking to people's needs. They're not speaking to people's interests, speaking to the fact that people need the rent to stay stable, that they need access to food, clothing, and shelter. That's what Mamdani is doing. And if for some reason he were not to be successful and didn't have a great mayoral administration, I don't think it would be fair to say that I see that as a referendum on his ideology any more than all the other unsuccessful mayors

and governors around the country or presidents around the country and the world who have had unsuccessful campaigns as capitalists and imperialist and fascists. We don't say, oh, maybe we should try something different. Sometimes it's about changing the driver and sometimes it's about changing the direction. What we saw in New York last night

was that New Yorkers want to do both. They wanted new leadership, but they also want a new vision. And I think that that's something that Democrats should follow because the way they've been working so far, has not been working. Okay, literally, the thing that I would be concerned about

if I was Donald Trump and the Republicans is that the running theme behind all the successes the Democrats had last night was affordability. And there's no doubt the cost of living crisis, coming out of the pandemic, inflation continuing. You know, Trump can claim some wins in bringing some prices down, others not so good. But this ongoing running sore

of the standard of living for people in the bottom bracket of society in America is not going away. People feel angry enough now to vote for people who they think are going to tackle as a priority affordability. It's been very striking to me that Mamdani, he doesn't want to get involved much in foreign affairs. He wants to focus specifically on the ability of really impoverished New Yorkers. You can't afford their groceries.

You can't afford to rent a home and so on. That has been something that's resonated. There's no doubt about that. Mark, respectfully, and it's great to be here with you, but I got to address some of the claims that you made. This guy literally said he wants to seize the means of production, okay? We're not slapping a communist label on him just for our shits and giggles. He literally said this himself. And Aaron, as someone who has fundraised for Democrats, who's been in the game for a very long time,

I can tell you that politicians at a high level, they vet every single person in the room. you better believe that no random person can just take a photo with Kamala Harris or Joe Biden. We vetted them. Someone actually who owed $40,000 to the IRS is booted out of the room because they didn't want him to be seen with Joe Biden. So this is not just, this is very intentional on his part for you to say, oh, it was just some random dude who showed up. And not only did he take a photo with him, he decided to compliment him. That was a conscious decision. But, Pierce, going back to what you said, he did a good job of campaigning on affordability, yes.

But I also want to remind folks that we were heading in the right direction, so much so, that Jerome Powell decided to lower interest rates not once but twice. So it takes a long time to bounce back from the mess that Joe Biden got us in, but we are moving in the right direction. And frankly, I know Vinnie, I love you to death, babe. I know you're upset about this, but I think this is the biggest gift for Republicans that we could possibly hope for because honestly Marxist mom Donnie, Rashida Talib, AOC, Jasmine Crockett, these people being the face of the Democratic Party is exactly what I want to run on going into

2026. Okay. Let me just hold the panel there. Let me hold the panel from a moment. I'm going to come back to the panel in moment. I want to just bring in Frank Luntz, the pollster extraordinaire. Frank, your take on on. last night. I thought it was a very interesting set of results. Obviously, overall, a good night

for the Democrats, but pulling in two very, very different directions, moderate and then the socialist in New York. The race, to me, that was by far the most important, didn't even feature a candidate. It was the ballot initiative in California, which some of your audience won't know much about, but that's going to allow the Democrats to completely rewrite the borders, the districts, the lines that will determine which voters vote in which areas. And that's going to give the Democrats five or maybe even six additional House seats. Now, Republicans have done before in Texas. Democrats had a really bright, smart usage of language on the ballot to help them win that race, but it wasn't even close.

And Pierce, that shift may well determine who controls Congress in 26, and that's going to change history as we know it. That was the most significant race. I know it doesn't get the kind of yelling or kind of passion that the New York burial race does. But I'm telling you that the California voters have absolutely changed, have uprooted what was going to happen in America. And that's going to be the big story that we're going to be talking about for months and even for years. Yeah, really, really interesting. And I don't disagree with you at all. It's a seismic thing that happened in California.

But on the point about the direction of the Democrat Party, Mamdani is now the standout superstar of the party. He's come from nowhere. And he's like this incredibly charismatic. I watched his speech last night. He's taking it to Trump and so on. You know, I can see a lot of young Democrats in particular, cheering him on and thinking this is great.

But his politics are very, very different, for example, to somebody like Abigail Spanberger, who, you know, won in Virginia. Which way is the party going to go? which is more electable. Can you win a general election in America, do you think, if you are a self-declared socialist? Absolutely not. And the party is going in both directions. And the progressives had a great win yesterday and a significant win. And they finally have a spokesman who's incredibly articulate and powerful. And that helps the Bernie Sanders, AOC, wing of the party.

The one who's probably most upset this morning is Chuck Schumer, because his Democratic Party is is disappearing. On the Republican side, the party is no longer the party of Ronald Reagan. It's all about Donald Trump and his accolades. Both parties are moving in those directions away from the center. And in the end, there are going to be more and more Americans who look at both Republicans and Democrats and say, I can't vote for any of you. But Pierce, you know, I've been on this now for several years. I think the loser last night isn't the Republican Party. It's actually the American people, because I see both parties rejecting the center, both parties rejecting a common sense approach, and moving in these ideological directions. That does fire people up.

That does excite younger people and excite people on the fringes. But in the end, there's so many Americans who believe that our democracy is not working anymore, as they do in the UK. And they believe that they're looking for someone with common sense, someone who is a centrist. And this is not necessarily where I stand. This is where the American people stand. And they don't see anyone who's speaking for them. Yeah, I think that's absolutely right. Do you see anybody on the horizon for the Democrats, for example,

that would fit that bill? A sort of a new Bill Clinton-y figure? Absolutely. Corey Booker, the senator from New Jersey. Westmore, the governor of Maryland. Mitch Landry, the former mayor of New Orleans. These are people who focus on getting stuff, done. Booker was formerly the mayor of Newark, turned that city around. And they have a record

of accomplishment, a record of results, which is what the American people are looking for. And they practice accountability in what they do. They're not focused on Washington. They're not ideological. They would not come on this show and yell at each other. They would come to listen, learn, and lead. To read Democrats that can make a difference, I'm going to repeat this so people check them out. Go on to YouTube to see their speeches, go to Wikipedia, to see it, their backgrounds, Corey Boker in New Jersey, Westmore, Maryland, and Mitch Landrieu, Louisiana. Incredible leaders, focused on results. And I know I sound like a Democrat. But I know that that's what the American people are looking for right now.

Putting your predictive hat on, take me forward to the midterms and then the general election. So 2026, first, then 2028. As things say, what do you think is going to happen in both? I've studied this. I know what history says, and history says the Democrats are going to win. The House races, maybe not the Senate, because the majority is too much in favor of the Republicans. But after last night in California voting the way that it did, if I were a betting man, I bet on the Democrats winning the House very narrowly, Republicans keeping the Senate very narrowly, and the country once again going at each other.

And we're going to have the most amazing election in 2028. If you were entertained by 2020 and a little bit scared about 2024, 2020 is going to be like the Godfather, too. It's going to be even better than what we saw in terms of competitiveness. My concern is whether or not it's better in terms of bringing voters back in, having them have faith, trust, and confidence in the American political system. Because in the end, peers, ratings don't matter. I know they do for you.

They don't matter for America. Money doesn't matter. Happiness matters. Success matters. Trust and confidence in the system of government. Our patriotism matters and our country matters. And I'm hoping that we will put people, truly, not a slogan, put people about politics in the years to come. And Frank, frankly, do you expect Donald Trump to try and change the rules?

so he can run again in 2028, or is he just trolling the libs, as he would put it? I fully expect him to talk about it. I fully expect him not to do it. It is so clear what needs to be done, and there isn't enough time to get it done, but he wants to stay relevant. And I know that you and I've had these conversations now

for about 10, 15 years. I know it's now different than what I used to, but we're in a different situation than what we used to be in. And I would hope that the president would acknowledge that things are very, difficult for a lot of people, that they're challenged. The Democrat on your show, who talked about affordability. And here's that your message. That is absolutely correct. If you can't afford

your home, you can't afford your health care. If you can't even afford your fuel or your food, you're in trouble. And we need these people working together for all of us so that this affordability is addressed, this confidence is restored. And in the end, we have the country and the system that we deserve. Frank Luntz, brilliant to have you on after such a big night for American politics. Thank you very much. Thank you, Peters. I appreciate it.

Let's go back to the panel. Aramate, I mean, as always, Frank cuts through a lot of the kind of tribalism and made some really good points there. What did you think about what he said? Today's show is sponsored by Oxford Natural, makers of the optimum day and optimum night all natural supplements. Thousands of Brits and Americans are already taking them with incredible results. Optimum day boosts your energy and supports weight loss throughout the day.

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He's cut, Medicaid. He's now providing over a government shutdown in which 42 million people who need SNAP benefits to get food are being denied it because of his party's refusal to extend health care subsidies for millions of people. And what is he offering people who he promised? that he'd make America great again. Nothing. He just recently bragged about how he's redecorating

the White House, built a new bathroom. How does that help average people? And that's the fundamental problem. Trump successfully tapped into real discontent. I'll give him credit for that. He tapped into real outrage over Democratic Party elite failures. But now you have someone in the face of Zora Mamdani and his grassroots movement actually talking

about the issue of affordability while presenting concrete proposals. And I think Frank Lentz is very correct, recognize their Republicans who are the current party in power, they control the White House and both chambers of Congress, but this is a real problem for them. And by the way, also, peers, if I may, on this issue of this pastor who keeps coming up, this Muslim leader, who's armadne who took a photo with, again, if you look at the specifics of that case, he was an unindicted co-conspirator, former terrorism prosecutor later criticized his inclusion

in a list in that case because basically some of the suspects in the World Trade Center bombing attended his mosque around the time of the bombing. So that's like basically blaming the chapter. You were still apologizing for this guy. Wow. I can't believe that. That's like, excuse me, I'll finish my Senate. I'll finish my Senate. I'll finish my Senate.

That's like, excuse me, I'll finish my sentence. I didn't interrupt you. I'll finish my sentence. That's like blaming the pastor of George W. Bush's church for the Iraq war. And these are the smears of people who can't contend with the fact that you have the candidate and Zora Mamdani, who has grassroots support record turnout of New York. and there's galvan people on the issues that impact their lives. I think there's even unindicted co-conspirator, meaning he was, they can't prove that he was in the room, but he was in the room.

No, they can't prove anything. It's a red herring. Give it up. Are you literally trying to stick up? Are you really trying to stick up for this guy? Are you really trying to stick up? Yes, I am. And Pierce just a respected Muslim leader.

Yes, I am. Yes, I am. He's a rest. Let me explain somebody. I'm very. I'm very, yeah, very desperate. Piers, mind you, on Sunday, Mamdani was in a gay club,

in a gay club pandering to the gay people to try to get votes. And let me explain something to you. People are like, he's a fraud, because he's a Muslim, right? What do you mean pandering to gay people? He was pandering to campaign? Excuse me, because I'm going to finish right now

because there's something, you know where he's from? Uganda. Do you know how Uganda treats gay people? Have you been to Uganda? Have you heard what Uganda is due? Is there a mom d'ani responsible for the, He's a Muslim dude from there. And what he's practicing, Pierce, what he's practicing is called Takia.

Okay? It's a practice in Islam, all right, peers, that you, yeah, you deceive and you lie about stuff just to have people to further your Islam agenda. You're being dup, you're being duke. You're being duke. Hang on, hang on, hang on. Hang on, hang on. He's a lie.

Hang on, just because he's from Uganda. He doesn't mean he agrees with all the policies of Ugandan governments. He's Muslim, peers. He's Muslim. He's Muslim. How do Muslim people feel towards days? Are you guys, are you guys lost? Are you lost?

Well, there are many Muslims who have no problem with gays. That's a Muslim, bro. That's a Muslim. But there are many Muslims who have no problem with it. Can I just put a couple of facts here? Because this is all really... Hang on, let me bring you, Mark. Let me bring him Mark and then, Linda.

Mark. Okay, a couple of things, just to inject some facts. One, Takia isn't about lying. It's about concealing your faith as Muslim to get over, the ostensibly in times of danger. At no point has Mamdani pretended not to be Muslim. If he were, if he had, you wouldn't be here arguing like this. Second, let me finish.

Second, yes, he's from Uganda, where Muslim, where gay people often are harassed and killed, and there are anti-gay policies in Uganda. You know who they're organized by Christians, not Muslims. If you just Google or read one book when Uganda, you'd understand that this is a Christian practice, not a Muslim practice. Third, when we talk about Saraj Wahj, who's the imam who he was in a photo with, one, there's no absolutely no evidence

that he was in the room with 9-11 conspirators. That's not even being alleged by the prosecutor. We're not even talking about 9-11 or talking about the World Trade Center bombing. Two different things. Please allow me to finish.

We're talking about World Trade. World Trade number one. Please allow me to finish. You're not even getting the timeline right. I accidentally said 9-11 as opposed to World Trade Center. That's not the point. I concede.

I said the wrong word. Now I'm going to replace the wrong word with the right word, which is World Trade Center. The point still is the prosecutors don't allege that Wahaz was in the room. So there's no evidence of that, even by the people who you're appealing to for evidence. Wahaj took a picture. A better comparable example would be when Donald Trump takes a picture with Joey Merlino, the convicted mob boss, right? He did it because he didn't know who Joey Merlino was. So that's what about this? All right, Mark.

Who I don't know who is not a terrorist. Okay, I don't want to say. imam and celebrated in Brooklyn for his acts in the community, and that's what he was being praised for. If I look, time out. What does Colt-conspirator means you? Hang on, Lindy. Hang on.

I think we've discussed this particular part of the Mamdani story enough. Here's the thing that I find extraordinary. And it's this, Lindy, which is he's on record, Mamdani as wanting to defund the New York police department. Yes. Thank you, Pierce. I was just going to bring that up. I'm calling them a bunch of races.

I would have thought, I mean, call me old-fashioned. But anybody that literally posted that the racist NYPD should be defunded, that that would be disqualifying to be mayor of New York. And yet here he is, mayor of New York. Why would that be disqualifying? Why would that be disqualifying? This is New York City. This is New York City.

What's the answer to the question? Let Lindy go first. I'll let you respond. I'm not cutting you off. I'm asking a question. Please, let me finish. 40% of unsolved. murders, this is New York City, the biggest city in the country, and 40% of murders have been

unsolved. And he wants to defund the police. Yeah, okay. And then according to some studies, 25% of New York, they want to flee because of his policies, okay? He's on a speedway to hell. And another thing is, Mark, I felt like I was talking to, what's his name? Frank Luntz, I felt like I was listening to a new age therapist. Like, is he crazy? He wants to put forward people like Wes Moore and Corey Booker. Let's go through his people like, for example, Cory Booker tried the presidential campaign thing already. He was polling at one to two percent. Okay, so we already tried that. The trial balloon failed. Number two, Wes Moore, he lied about getting a bronze star. These are the people that Frank Luntz wants to be the face of the Democratic

party. Then please, sounds good to me. And then he talks about the importance of Prop 50. Yes, it's important, but I also think it's a gift to Republicans, because in this case, it allows Republicans to tie Gavin Newsom's failed policies to him. There's no way to disentangle the two week. We are now able to tie $7 per gallon gas to Gavin Usum. We can tie homeless encampments all across the state to Gavin Newsom. And you know Gavin Usum, this is all about him running for 2028. This wasn't about the people of California. This is about the year. It may be. It may Hang on, hang on, don't know talk about. Hang on. Hang on. Okay, I'll come to you, Mark, in a moment. Vinnie, I did find, you know, Mark was asking me, what's wrong with saying defund the NYPD? I think a lot. You know, somebody, if somebody was running for mayor of London on a ticket of defund the Metropolitan Police, I would think that's completely disqualifying, right? What is the idea that you brand, well, hang on, Mark, I'll come back to you. Hold on, hold on, Mark. He asked me, he asked me a question. Mark, what are you talking about, bro?

You're the mayor of the city, and you're saying to defund the police department, and you don't think that's some crazy outlandish to say? He's actually not saying that. When I tell you, when I tell you, he did say that. He did say that. He did say that. He did say it. And your job, Aaron, your job is to stick off for every single lie.

Yes. Let him finish. On his record. And let me explain something. Pierce, a couple of lies. He hates billionaires, right? Who funded his campaign? Soros.

Okay? He lied about defunding the police. He said he took that back. He lied about his aunt wearing a hijab on the subway. She wasn't his aunt and she wasn't in New York City. Hold on, hold on. And he wants to legalize prostitution. Any wants to legalize prostitution. Or am I lying about that? You have to stick up. Your narrative has to stick it. You have to because you're full of it, bro. And hold on. Last thing, and I'll give you the floor. I'll give you the floor. And Lindy nailed it. Corey Booker, West. Hold on. I'll give you the floor. Give me 10 seconds. Pears. You heard, Frank Luntz, and Lindy's right. They want to name all these Democrats. What's the first order of business that Newsom, Cory Booker, Westworld, they're all going to do. Number one, they're going to open up the border because they love illegals. Okay.

That's going to be number one. So every American that's watching this, don't get it twisted. Okay, Vin. The moment a Democrat comes into power, the border's wide open. And what are you going to do? Nothing, because nobody in your family is getting freaking touched by it. All right. So shut up.

Wait, wait, wait, don't all talk at once. Don't all shout out once. Hang on, no, hang on. Hang on. Hang on. Don't, don't, don't. You all talk, no one can hear any of you. Mark Lamont Hill.

The floor is yours. Thank you. What I'm disputing here is how we're defining or very interestingly not defining defunding. You all are saying defunding and laying it out there as many people have, which would suggest that he's saying, let's get rid of the police department and take care of all of, and get rid of all of its resources.

That we're just going to fire the police, which is not what he says. saying. If he were saying that, that probably would be disqualifying to be mayor. What defunding means is taking money out of the police department and placing it in other departments where that work could be done. So when you give the example of, let me just let me finish. So when you give the example of unsolved murders, when you give the example of unsolved murders, defunding does not affect unsolved murders in that way. In fact, to the contrary, it would help to solve murders. And I'll tell you how. When you, when police come out right now,

and I'm only telling you this as someone who's written several books on this and has been part of the defunding movement for a decade. So you can shake your head, but I'm only giving you facts. You can disagree with my approach, but I'm telling you what the actual defunding movement is. When we say defunding, what we're talking about is saying, right now, if someone has a drug overdose or someone has a mental health crisis, the police gets sent out there. When someone is jaywalking, the police have to stop and give them a ticket in many cities. We're using the police as tax collectors, as therapists, and as counselors. Defunding says, let's take some of those resources that we're making the police do for jobs that they shouldn't be doing,

and let's give them to therapists, to social workers, to drug treatment counselors, and let the police focus on, I don't know, policing. And so defunding is actually- But he also called, Mark, hang on, Mark, he also called the NYPD. But hang on, hang on, hang on if you disagree with it. I understand, no, I listen to you, you had the floor. But he also called the NYPD a racist organization. Racist.

Also, he said queer liberation. No, hang on, Lindy. Hang on, please, look, it's much easy. If everyone answers the questions, I pose to them. So let me just. ask Mark, Mark, do you believe the NYPD is racist? Yes. All of them?

Oh, God. There it is. No, no, you just moved the goalpost. No, no, hold on. Hold on. Middle Easterns. No, I didn't. No, no, hold on. You asked me if the department was the institution, and then you just said all of them as an individuals.

Do I think every police officer is racist? Of course not. But we're talking about systemic racism. It's just like saying the school system sucks. It doesn't mean every teacher sucks, But the system itself doesn't work. Going out to crime does not make you racist. I agree, but shooting unarmed black people does.

Targeting black people. Let me bring you now. Let me bring in Aaron. Stop and frisk. Does. Let me bring in Aaron, please. Let me bring in Aaron, please. Let me bring in Aaron, please. All right.

Let me bring in Aaron. Crime is up 30% in New York City. I'm going to bring you in Aaron if it kills me. So let me bring in Aaron. You can't die, Pierce. Here's my problem with Mamdani. and why I call him a wolf in sheep's clothing. I'm always very distrusting of politicians

who post this kind of stuff three, four years ago, but now want us to believe that's not their real opinion. I think that is what he genuinely feels about the NYPD. And by the way, he's allowed to, we live in a free country, he can express that view, and I believe it was honestly held. But this sudden transformation to, oh, no, I don't think the NYPD's racist. Oh, no, I don't think that they should be defunded and so on. It's just a little bit too close to when he did believe that for me to think this guy is a serious person.

You know, his views haven't changed in three years. His desire for power has, Aaron. Sure, yeah. I mean, people will sometimes say things to get elected. That's called being a politician as part of the job. And I don't know what's inside his head. I don't know what his views are. But there's plenty of evidence, as Mark laid out, but why one would think that the NYPD is a racist institution,

not saying every single police officer, but institutionally, is. And so I understand why he would think that. And on the issue of policy, defunding the police, Mark laid out what that means. Mumdani wants to create a Department of Community Safety, promoting community-based solutions to problems that can be handled by people in the community, which is proven. There's a long scholarship on this about how these solutions work. And other cities do it. And it has support among the majority of New York City councils, it's not even a radical thing. And yet, listen, I'm sure Mom Dani is being pragmatic in some ways. It's called being a politician. You have to make compromises sometimes. But the bottom line is this. He centered the

issue of affordability. He spoke to issues that nobody else was talking about. He sent a message of hope across the country to people who are feeling left out of politics. And look what happened in New York City. He got more than 100,000 people to turn out for him, to volunteer, to knock on door. So people feel connected to his methods. People feel that he stands by his convictions. and he got a record turnout, almost double, almost double the number of voters turned out in this election than did four years ago. But only 51% voted, only 51% voted for him,

and a large number of people voted for the other Democrat candidate. Well, no, no. Enough to win. Wait a minute, Lindy, don't start shouting, enough to win, but actually, but pretty close with the other Democrat candidate who is the kind of antithesis on the Democrat side of everything Mandarney stands for, which comes back, I think, to the original point I was making.

It could be a very great night for Mandani, unquestionably, a great night for the progressive left wing of the Democratic Party. But actually, if he turns out to be a dud, as we've seen in the UK with Kier Stahmer's Labour Party, and he can't deliver on the promises, and he ends up just taxing the hell out of everybody, if that happens, this could become a real millstone around the neck of the Democrats leading into the midterms, and then particularly the general. election, I think. Lindy? Well, listen, sure. Of course, anything's possible.

Absolutely. President Trump has already said he's going to withhold $18 billion. Aaron, I'm talking. President Trump has already promised. He's vowed to withhold $18 billion in federal funding. Governor Hockel has also said she's not going to go all in, all the socialist policies. Where is he going to get his money from? All the billionaires are fleeing. Hundreds of thousands of people might leave New York. Where do you think he's going to get the money to fuel his boond off?

Well, this is absolutely insane. And by the way, I want to quote exactly what he said. This is not us putting words in his mouth. He said, yeah, look, yeah, I get it. Weird liberation means defund the police. And for you to have to interpret what he said and use a Zorban Mamdani dictionary to put the best light on his words is absolutely shameful. He hates these people. I think they're racist.

No. Look, just to remind you, if you're a member of the NYPD, your new mayor five years ago said, the NYPD were racist, anti-queer and a major threat to public safety and called to defund you. In 2023, just two years ago, of the Democrat Socialists of America's Convention, Mabdani said, we have to make clear that when the boot of the NYPD is on your neck, it's been laced by the IDF. Vinny, your final thought on that. That was 100% correct. He's referring to the fact that the NYPD was in the Israeli military.

Because, Pierce, I don't know about you. You're in New York. I'm from New York, and there's nothing, there's nothing that makes me happy. You know what makes me comfortable, Pierce, that if I'm getting stabbed or burned to death on the subway, I want a social worker to come and just calm the murderer down, okay? If you never lived in New York and you've never been on a subway, don't talk to me about crime and cops being racist. They have the hardest freaking jobs on the planet. I've lived in New York for the last 20 years.

I work in New York about how racist they are. And what are the stats? What are the odds? Give me the percentage of a cop shooting an un-arred black person in America. What's the number? It's so outlandish that it's such a big thing that they're racist. Give me a break. You guys are all being duped by Mom Dani,

but I love what Lindy said. Lindy, I'm actually going to adopt that mindset is give them, let them do it, peers, let them happen. They're going to fick and feel it. And all the New Yorkers that are leaving, that have all the money, when they're all left and the dust settles him, like, wait a minute, who's going to pay for all the free shit that Mom Dani said?

And you guys, they're going to feel the freaking wrath. You'll see it, Pierce. Well, you know, it's interesting. That's true. People, hang on, final point. People are trying to compare this to London, where Sadiq Khan's been mayor now won three terms. Actually, it's the wrong comparison. They happen to both be Muslims.

But Sadiq Khan's quite a establishment figure of the Labour Party. Go back to the start of the century to Red Ken Livingston, who was a genuine socialist. He presided over London for eight years. And you know what? It wasn't that bad. London survived. So whatever happens under Mam Darnie, I suspect knowing New York as I do and having lived and worked here for 20-odd years,

New York will survive whatever Mam Darnie can throw in it. And if it turns out that he has the magic touch and he can make what nobody has done in modern times work, socialism in New York, who knows? You might have President Alexandria Ocasio Cortez. to look forward to in 2028. God help us. Help us, God.

God help us. You never know. Guys, thank you. A very spirited debate. I appreciate it all. Thank you very much. Peers Morgan Unsensit is proudly independent. The only boss around here is me.

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