Piers Morgan Uncensored - “He HATES America!” James Carville vs Hasan Piker & Tucker vs Trump With Vinnie Oshana

Episode Date: August 10, 2026

Abdul El-Sayed is the latest Democratic candidate to face a massive political onslaught from Republicans, but is he the future of the party? Piers Morgan dissects the intensifying culture wars, from Donald Trump’s "two Americas" rhetoric to Congresswoman Nancy Mace’s controversial “Trojan horse” accusations regarding Muslims in public office. As political energy reaches a boiling point, Piers speaks to veteran Democratic strategist James Carville about the influence of figures like Hasan Piker, the viral 9/11 comment debate, and whether the Democratic party is shifting toward new voices like AOC and Zohran Mamdani - or clinging to its traditional roots. The panel also debates whether the party has the stomach for the same "podcast bro" coalition strategy that defined Trump's 2024 campaign; joining us is The Young Turks’ Cenk Uygur, comedian and Part of the Problem host Dave Smith, PBD podcast’s Vincent Oshana and former DNC fundraiser Lindy Li. Piers Morgan Uncensored is proudly independent and sponsored by: Mars Men: For a limited time, our listeners get 50% off FOR LIFE, Free Shipping, AND 3 Free Gifts at Mars Men at https://mengotomars.com/. POLYMARKET: Who will be the democratic presidential nominee in 2028? https://app.polymarket.us/S8ac/PIERS50 (00:00) Introduction (04:14) James Carville interview (20:48) Panel reacts to James Carville (25:30) Hasan Piker’s Rolling Stone interview (31:33) Dave Smith slams Cenk’s defence of the DSA  (35:40) Lindy Li reacts to AOC’s ‘Woke 1’ comments (29:55) Piker’s comments on 9/11, Mao and Industrialised Socialism (45:15) Is Hasan Piker being cancelled or simply being held accountable?  (57:08) Tucker Carlson and his 10-point vision for America  (01:11:40) Elon Musk and Hasan Piker’s twitter spat Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

James Carville fantasizing about leaving the party, I'm like, you're sweetening the deal. Why does anybody still listen to James Carver? All these people do is sit around and talk about how nobody talks about James Carville anymore. If you respond to stupid people, all you'll be doing is being as stupid as they are. People like James Carville, for the past 10 years,

all it's been is Trump. We're Nazis, we're deplorable, and now when the TDS dust had settled, look who they're left with. When you say stupid shit, like, America Derser 9-11, and AOC yesterday was like, yeah, but he said he's sorry. Nonsense.

He said about four dumb things out of, I don't know, 10, 20, 30,000 hours on air. He dresses up like Mao Zedong, like that's his hero, cosplay of freaking mass murderer. Brother, you know that I love and respect you, Janks. You gotta understand, dude, that's freaking concerning for people.

People like James Carville say, oh, we got, I'm excited, and we got talent. Talent my ass. Abdul El-Sahed overcame an APAC-funded onslaught to become a Democratic candidate for the Senate. He's now facing a Trump-sized onslaught from Republicans who want him to be the face of the movement seeking to kick them out of office. Well, the president posted this image of himself with Melania beside a photo of El-Said and his wife, which pointedly used his full name and a caption of two very different Americas.

Yeah, he's right. One in which your overlords are two people who don't like each other but join. in the interest of making billions of dollars off of you, or two people who genuinely love each other, enjoyed some pancakes together, want to come together to build the kind of America where they can raise a family and know that that family is gonna have the good thing.

So yes, you've got two different visions of America. Donald Trump's vision is the one you're living in right now. Can you afford your gas? Can you afford your groceries? Republican Congresswoman Nancy Mace went further, posting that every Muslim holding public office is a Trojan horse and a threat. to national security. She was asked to clarify her comments this weekend, but double down by

suggesting Democratic communists will one day force American girls to wear hijabs. I am deeply concerned about Michigan Democrats nominating a guy hanging out with Asan Piker who said America deserve 9-11, who has a framed photo of the Twin Towers. Which he's responded to and says he regrets those comments, but yes, keep going. Yeah, but I mean, this is who he's hanging out with, this kind of person. who's promoting, you know, communist ideology. This is not something. America's not built on those values.

And in the future, when our granddaughters are wearing burkas to school, we're going to look back and say, how it's happening on a wide basis. Well, barely an hour passes on cable news at the moment without a reference to Hassan Piker, whose fruity photo shoot is plastered across Rolling Stone magazine this week. El-Said was asked to condemn Hassan Pika's infamous 9-11 comments, which you made during a long rant about U.S. foreign policy disasters almost seven years ago. Of course. It was a dumb statement. And of course, I think Hassan himself would say that was a dumb statement. He disavowed it. So yes, America didn't deserve 9-11. But, you know, to sit here and play gotcha politics with a dumb thing somebody said out of context that they disavowed themselves to say, oh, well, what does that mean about what you think?

I want to be held accountable for what I say and what I do rather than this idea that we're so stuck in cancel. that all of us agreed was a bad idea back in 2020, but we seemed to want to bring back. President Trump was praised in 2024 for building a broad coalition and recruiting the so-called podcast bros in the process. Anybody was welcome. He dined at Maralaga with Kanye and Nick Fuentes.

Whether Democrats have a stomach for the same kind of strategy is unclear, and the reason all this is consuming so much energy is that both parties are fighting over not only the crucial mid-term elections, but the shape of their campaigns for the presidency will take. Tucker Carlson and Marjorie Taylor Green to find what comes next for MAGA or will it be Mark Levine and Tech Cruz? Will Mamdani, AOC and

Hasse Piker be the face of the new Democrats or is this still the party of Clinton Obama and James Carville? Well, we'll debate all of this and more in a moment, but we begin with the great James Carville, veteran Democratic strategist and host of the Politics War Room podcast. James, welcome

back to Unsensit. Thank you. Thank you. It's good to be back on on the show, Pierce. Is the Democratic Party, is it losing itself and therefore people like you? I don't think so. I mean, we have an idiotic wing of the party that embraced what I would call based on what you guessed the last second. An extinction level stupidity and wholeness. But thank God that it seems that Ms. Al-Sai is beyond that.

Thank God. Welcome to the Folsom. and we had this little unpleasant chapter that was embraced by really stupid people, some who identify with the Democratic Party that has been squished and is now a part of history, and we should keep it that way. When I look at people like Mamdani and El-Said, I mean, these are very charismatic guys. They're bursting with useful vibrancy. They appear to be reasonably pragmatic, but at their heart, you would probably categorize them

historically as socialists. And I guess the big picture question is whether these kind of people, AOC, Tbilist and others, whether they can drive success at a local level, at a midterm level, but can they actually win, with their ideology, a general election? Well, first of all, ALC, the very bright person has rejected this

and declared woke is dead. So I'll be very careful with praise out of the kind of praise you. Look, people claim a mandamus in New York is sort of working on the mandamus. I don't know, but I lived there. The day-to-day life of the city seems to be born on. He seems to be a very articulate guy. I don't know, you know, Milwaukee had a socialist mayor

back in the 20s or 30s spot for 16 years, and apparently the guy was a good mayor. in terms of what outside is, I suspect, as cultural politics, is somewhat to the left of me, but not seem to be a whole lot. And, you know, economically, we're going to have to have some pretty aggressive measures. I don't know if you call it socialism, anything like that, but you're going to be very, have to be very aggressive going forward and extracting more taxes from wealth and helping middle class people

and younger people try to get a better break in life. I don't know if you call that socialism. I call it common sense. You hit the headlines with your comments about Hassan Piker. For those who didn't see them, let's take a look. I am not going to be in the same party with Hassan Piker. I can tell you that right now. If he becomes a force in a Democratic Party, I'm out of here.

I have no intention of ever being in the same political party with that guy. Now, I think that a majority, overwhelming majority of Democrats, agree with me. Now, Piker respond to this. Let's take a look. Now, James Carvel is talking about leaving the party. John Fetterman, James Carvel, fantasizing about leaving the party, I'm like, you're sweetening in the deal. Why does anybody still listen to James Carver? He said one smart thing once, which he seems to have forgotten, which is, it's the economy stupid. Oh, would that, yeah.

I'm like, buddy, is the economy stupid? Like, you wonder why people are pissed off, you've got these. Okay, so both parties take money from all the same people to do all the same errands when they get elected, and then no one can afford shit, and then we wonder why everyone's mad. Now, I certainly think that your range of accurate comments over the last few decades extends past one comment, Mr Carville. But let's listen to what Bernie Sanders had to say about this. So when someone like James Carville says he doesn't want to be in the same political party as Hassan Piker,

which one are you going to take? Well, that's not much of the choice. Mr. Carville doesn't want to be in my party, the party that I belong to, that PICA, that El As Syed belongs to, he can start his own party. What is your, well, first of all, were you surprised about how big your comments got? And secondly, would you reframe them if you had a chance of a do-over? Or is your response to these three and the others like them that they're the ones that are in Cloud Cuckoo land here?

Refram what? I mean, all these people do is sit around and talk about how no one talks about James Carville anymore. Well, if no one talks about me, why the hell are you talking about it? Somebody got, you know, as rabbi I've been saying for 5,000 years, go figure. And the idea that I, 92, let's see, you ever been to Colombia, Israel, Brazil, Seychelles, Afghanistan, all the other places I've worked around the world. But if you respond to stupid people, all you'll be doing is being as stupid as that. They are. So let's continue to have the panel discussion. Let's discuss why no one discusses

James Carville, because that seems to be the number one topic on the left. Well, it's a very good point, because they're all talking. It is funny, and you make a very good point. But, you know, I think the point I would make is obviously not just Hassan Pika. You've got people like El-Said, you've got Bernie Sanders, all reigning in behind him. So when you said you're not going to be in the same party with Hassan Pika, You know, people might look at that and say, well, actually, it's not just him. There are many people that support Hassan PICA. So, you know, is really your position?

You can't be in the party with any of these guys. So let me back up. Bernie Sanders are roughly the same age. He's a little bit older than me. I am of the truth. Bernie Sanders is James Carville. There's one that's been a Democrat his entire adult life. His name is not Bernie Sanders.

So let's dispense of that nonsense right now. is I don't know if these people, I don't know that he's a Democrat. Most of these DSA types can't stand the Democrats. In fact, Al-Said himself has said the Democrats has much of a problem is the Republicans, which I disagree with. But when I look at him and I look at Mike Rogers, who's a lacking for the entire pharmaceutical industry, who is an election denier, then I'm going to take El-Said every time.

Would I take him in a vacuum? Probably not, but against a clown. like Rogers, who is an election denier running for the United States in the year 2026, who is never at once opposed to interest a big form of. Yeah, I'm going to be fell safe. Summary is almost upon us, and if you're not completely satisfied with your beach body, my condolences, that must be hard for you. It's not just because you're watching the World Cup and drinking beer. Once men hit their 30s, it's harder for the body to lose fat, retain muscle, and recover from injuries. The main culprit is test.

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there's no place for anti-Semitism. But if you want to be anti-Semitic, go from your own party. I am a full supporter of the right of a Jewish state on the Eastern Mediterranean. I think the only way to have that is you have to have a correspondent Palestinian state fully recognize.

You have to have security zones. You have to have massive aid to the Palestinian state. And we've got to have peace and not war. not want. Now, I can't stand Netanyahu. And the big change that I've seen in Israel is they used to actually trying to get people to like them. Don't do that anymore. And I detest the settlements. All right. And I would love to see policy changes in the government of Israel. But I am a firm believer in the state of Israel. Now, these comments, James, also blew up, particularly about your line there. There's no place for any place for criticism of the government of Israel in the

Democratic Party. Donnie O'Sullivan from CNN who interviewed, you thought you may have misspoken there. What did you actually mean? Did you mean that you shouldn't be able to criticize the Israeli government, for example? Well, if that were the case, I would have to resign from the party. I don't know. It'd be hard upon, I guess that people had more critical of Israeli policies around the government than me. But stand in line. I tried to beat the same government. In fact, succeeded in the turn of this century. So I don't know what I came out, but it's pretty clear over a lifetime what my view is. I support the right of the state of Israel to exist. I am appalled by the policies of the current government of Israel. I can't be any more clear than that. But I don't know how something

came out or how somebody takes it, but it's pretty pretty consistent in my whole life. And thank you for running that so actually people get some context of what I think. Yeah, I know, well, I think I knew what you were trying to say and I do know your history of what you said about it. I share your, I share your view. I absolutely believe in Israel's right to exist in the state of Israel, but I also abhor a lot of the stuff that this current Israeli government is doing. When you say there's no place for anti-Semitism, I completely agree with you, but many people who are big supporters of this Israeli government and Netanyahu, they often try and reframe criticism of Netanyahu or the government

into anti-Semitism. What do you feel about that creeping trend? Well, first of all, if I'm looking at the polls, maybe half of the Jews in Israel are voting against this government. So I don't think that half the Jews that live in the state of Israel are anti-Semite. So we must look for another explanation. because that one certainly doesn't know water you. And that's the easiest thing in the world

is to just go around calling people and it is and that. And, you know, when you are, you would know this because you're in the public eye, sometimes you just gotta shrug it off. It's just, it's just part of what it takes. But going forward, I suspect there's going to be a different government in Israel come, I think it's October 27th this year, please, sorry. sorry.

You know, maybe we all have some different policies. My problem with people are not the people that criticize the government of Israel. I have no problem. When you criticize Jewish people, then you got then I got a problem with you. That's different. I don't know. I'm Irish. I can criticize the government of Ireland.

They probably criticized all themselves over there. But you've got to make the distinction between the regime and the people and never confused the people with the regime. I would like to arrest. but with a few Iranian people I know, they're very industrious, they're very hard work

and they're very family-oriented people. I like them. I don't like the regime, but that's a different thing. Yeah. Yeah. I just want to end with some predictions from you, James. Polly Market, their predictions for the Democratic presidential nominee, 2028, have Gavin Newsom out front on 18%. John Ossoff follows on 16%.

Interestingly, very close to Newsom. AOC on 15%. saying Carmelah Harris on 8%. First of all, what do you think it's going to happen in the midterms? And then I'll come to the wider generation. Right now, and there's no subject to change. I think the Democrats win the House easily,

and I think they win the Senate. And I don't think it's going to be particularly close. And I don't see anything, any evidence that says that I shouldn't have that position. If I see evidence to the contrary, but I'm not, the other thing, period, let me be very clear here, I'm not very good at predicting elections. That's not kind of what I, that's not my, I don't think the best NBA coach is that good at predicting who the champion's going to be. But I don't know.

And I would always just add it, early polling and presidential nominate process tends to be relatively useless. I mean, their front run, I may win, but that generally doesn't happen. I mean, you're quite good of predicting elections because I lost quite a big bet to you, and I still haven't settled that debt with you. You may remember. I think it was in Virginia. So I think I owe you a... We are.

We're going to Scots. I think I owe you a thousand pound dinner, which I will honour next time you're in London when I'm there. Let's just turn quickly to the general election then. 2028, Newsom still out front, Ossoff right on his tail, AOC and then Carmel. Do you see any world in which Carmelah Harris becomes the nominee again? And if it's not going to be her, who would you personally like to see, based on who's there at the moment, coming to the four? Well, certainly she runs.

If she wants to run, she should run. She has a feeling that even though she got the nomination two-leg and Biden, some people have been critical. Now if you run and you start, Barry, this field is going to be so talented. I can't wait. And this is one of these things where I actually just want to watch because I don't think that people sufficiently understand

the level of talent in today's Democratic Party, particularly at the potential presidential level. And boy, you would have to be really foolish to try to get out ahead of this because, you know, once they start competing and once you start seeing them on these forums and town halls all over South Carolina, New Hampshire, Nevada, Michigan, or wherever,

it is you people will start forming opinions and i can't wait for people to see this and i'm like anybody else i'm going to get my bag of popcorn and watch this thing because it's going to be some real talent out there real talent we're about to have a panel james uh including chink yuga who posted on x uh this week is there anyone doing more damage to the democratic brand right now than james carville he's out there on every network screaming like a banshee about how extreme democrats are why because he's bitter that the pro-corporate pro-Iswell wing of the party isn't getting its way. What would you like to say to Mr. Yuga before we turn to the panel? You know, opinions at the Marine Corps would say opinions are like noses.

They didn't say no, but I'm not going to say the word. Everybody's got one. You got one, I got one. The whole world. Everybody got an opinion. Oh, gosh, your got an opinion. Some opinions are about another. but that's okay.

I guess it comes into territory. I'm used to it. And let's have another panel discussion on why no one talks about James Carville anymore. James Carville. Great to have you back on our censor. Thank you very much. See you, Scott.

Thank you, man. Joining me on the panel is Czech Yuga, the founder of the CEO of the Young Turks. Dave Smith, host of Part of the Problem, Vinnie Ashana from the PbD podcast, Angry Patriot, and Lindy Lee, the former DNC, fundraise an author of Unburdened. Well, welcome to all of you. So, Chech Yuga, I think the exact phrase Mr. Carver was trying to gentlemanly avoid saying is, everyone's got an asshole. So,

you know, we're all entitled to our opinions. What do you want to say to him? I mean, he's gone, but what would you have said to him? I mean, it's interesting to me about Israel, for example, he was pretty clear. He supports Israel's right to exist and he supports Israel, but he absolutely does not support this current Israeli government or many of their actions. So I'm not quite sure why you think that makes him the enemy to you. There's a couple of things there, Pierce. First of all, he's on every network. So he's all over television, including this one now.

You know, he was much, much better today. But earlier, what he was saying is basically the Democrats are extreme. And it's a nonsensical point of view. It's so nonsensical. He kind of defined it today. And he's the one that was laying down ultimatums about who gets to be in the party and who doesn't. And that's absurd. So now, look, there's a great irony here because in terms of those social issues, my position is actually very close to James Carvilles. In fact, me and my co-host, Anna Kasparian, were the ones who debated people on our left who wanted to abolish prisons about two years ago. So we were on

top of this and we didn't want this to be you know something the democratic party is known for at all we thought it was a terrible idea and in those debates we told people look you guys are only 13 people in the country who believe this nonsense stop pretending that you represent democrats but now i would say the same exact thing to james carville which is stop pretending that you represent all democrats you just don't we have a wide range of opinions so i don't think you should abolish prisons i think that's mental but good news 99.8 percent of democratic voters agree with me. By the way, 99.8% of Democratic politicians agree with me, right? So some people in the party don't, right? So Hassan Piker is my nephew. On Thanksgiving, we do these epic three,

four-hour debates called Jenksgiving. Sometimes we do it throughout the year. And we're both in the same party, and we have these brawls about where the Democrats should be. So what? Why does James Carville want to cancel anyone inside our own party? That doesn't make any sense. We want a broader 10. And if a couple of people got elected that believe in extreme things, and you know what, there's a 520 some odd Congress people who believe in super extreme things, like we should hand over American sovereignty to a tiny little irrelevant country named Israel. They believe in giving trillions of dollars in our money to poor barrel projects in the Pentagon, and they give $35 billion in oil subsidies away. Those are the establishment Democrats that James Carver.

loves and they're a disaster, but they're still in our party and we still try to head in the same direction. If we canceled everyone based on not agreeing with us 100%, well, then we'd have no party left. I say that to my friends on the left and I say that to my friends on the right. So let's stay focused. And there's a super easy answer to which direction the Democratic Party should go. There's a wing of the party that is enormously popular, but almost never gets talked about. And that is not an accident. The mainstream media, agrees with right wing media in this issue. They want to try to make the left unpopular

because of our stance against Israel, right? So I believe they're in cahoots. And they are purposely ignoring the most popular wing, which is the populist left, represented roughly by Rokaneh. But by the way, Abdul al-Said has almost, I don't want to, you know, spear him here, but he has almost identical positions to me.

And I would say very, very similar to Rokana, and that's why he's endorsed by him. And what do we want? We want the most popular things in the world. We want universal health care, which almost every other nation has. We want higher wages. We want to be able to negotiate drug prices. We want lower housing prices and end all the wars and get money out of politics.

Every one of these polls at over 67%. So I have a genuinely unique idea for the Democratic Party. Why don't we run on our most popular policies? And I'll get united behind those. One of the problems you've got, and I'll come to Vinny to respond to this, because you've been quite strong on Miss Vinnie, but Rolling Stones just published a feature on your nephew, Hassan Pika. Headline, why is everyone scared of Hassan Pika?

It reads a self-described Marxist with an NSF-MS now vocabulary. He's become famous as a peddle of incendiary takes, not so much moving the Overton window as throwing a brick through it. Among his greatest hits, America deserved 9-11. There's a lot we can learn from the Chinese Communist Party. let the streets soak in red capitalist blood, most of which he'd later walk back, if not apologize for. It goes on Pike is a matinee handsome, progressive icon

who's uniquely talented at translating radical left politics for the kind of Gen Z bros. And the accompanying photo shoot has a picture of him on a motorbike and by a pool looking like a movie star. And the problem with this, I think, Chink, is that when a lot of Americans see quotes like America are deserved 9-11, and they've been regurgitated because of Hassan's rising profile, and they say there's a lot we can learn from the Chinese Communist Party

and let the streets soak in red capitalist blood. They see these quotes come back, and they think this guy is very extreme, and they believe they have a right to be fearful of people like him becoming the faces of the Democrat Party. Before I go to Vinny to talk about that, what would you say in his defense? Yeah, look, we are all on the air for literally tens of thousands of hours. So I've debated Hassan a lot of this stuff, and he comes from the more, you know, I don't know what word to ever put on it, Radical Left, Max left, whatever it is, right? But again, I'm in favor of Big Ten, and I come from the populist left.

So there are some things that are just, you misspeak, and it happens. And he said about four dumb things out of, I don't, 10, 20, 30,000 hours on air, which, you know, you want to disagree with those good news. He also disagrees with those. In fact, the 9-11 comment, he came on the Young Turks right afterwards and disavowed it. So it's making people are trying to make it seem like he still believes it when he disavowed it instantly. Now, if you want to get into a real substantive debate about, hey, where on the socialism, communism, capitalism, spectrum, we should be. great. I mean, Haas and I have had that debate for hours and hours. That's at least

substantive. We used to do something called Agitprop for our members on the Young Turks where Haas and I would only debate those kind of economic issues. So that's a legitimate debate, but going back and nitpicking each comment, come on. Vinnie, you and I have also said things we probably wish we hadn't said.

All right, well, Vinnie, your response. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, with all due respect, I have so many things to say, peers, and thank you for having me on. I miss you. I've been gone for a while, but I keep hearing this big tent Democratic Party. And you know what is majority is inside these tents are freaking clowns. So, Chank, you're having these Chanks giving whatever.

I've said crazy stuff. You know what I've never said, Chank, in my entire life. America deserved Americans over 3,000 dying, burning to death and jumping to their freaking death. And there's no excuse for that. Chang, I don't care. I've never said anything, and I'm pretty sure you've never said anything remotely to that.

So you have these Chanks giving dinners. Do you ever talk to him about this? About the saying, you know, kill them. Kill those mother effers and those mother effers. Let the streets soak in their effing blood. If you cared about Medicare or Medicare fraud, kill Rick Stott. My nephew, who's five years old, said the F word, and my brother called me the other day, and I told them off. Like, as a child, like, in a respectful way, I said, don't you ever use bad words and don't do that.

I'm curious in these little dinners, you're not talking to him about that. To say that as a New Yorker and how embarrassed and I was ashamed I am. that these people like AOC are like, no, yeah, he said he's sorry. There's some things, peers, that you can say you're sorry for, that deep down inside, you're saying that he's over it. He just removed one of the photos he has in his stream room, and he put the world trade burning, okay? So don't give me this, he forgot.

But you know how we got to this point, peers as populace, whatever, all these Hassans and everything, is because people like James Carville, for the past 10 years, all it's been is Trump. Trump is Hitler. We're Nazis. We're deplorables. And now, when the TDS dust had settled, look who they're left with. Look who they're left with. The AOCs, the Bamdani's, the L. Abdul, whatever the hell his name is,

that want to abolish ICE. They want to defund the police. They want open borders. And when you mention the SAVE Act, it's racist. How dare you ask people to prove that they're here because Kamala Harris and the Biden administration left the border open for four years on purpose. And this is it, okay?

So I'm sorry, but I'm not sorry. When you say stupid shit, like America Derser 9-11, and AOC yesterday was like, yeah, but he said he's sorry. Nonsense. He's not sorry because he believes it. He says he's not patriotic. He dresses up like Mao Zedong, like that's his hero, cosplaying a freaking mass murderer.

It's a joke. It's a joke. And people like James Carville saying, oh, we got, I'm excited and we got talent. Gavin Newsom is your number one, AOC's number two, and Kamala's number three. talent my ass, Beers. And I'm sorry for cussing, but this, it drives me crazy.

That's the Democratic Party for you. Vinnie, I've missed you too. I love the passion. I love you. Dave Smith, welcome back to you. Welcome back to us and Dave Smith. Welcome back to us and Dave Smith. Can I address that?

Truly, I've got to say, I've got to say it is a fascinating time for people like me that love American politics who are not actually American. Because on the right, you have this enormous split between the Tucker Carlson, side, Marjorie Taylor Green and Thomas Massey and others and the rest of the MAGA crowd. And on the left, you have this enormous split now between the Mamdarnis, the Al-Said's, the AOCs, and the more mainstream Democrats, the Carvilles of this world. And I, you know, it's very hard to predict how this all plays out. But what do you make of what is happening here? Yeah, well, I mean, certainly I think the Democratic Socialists are ascendant on the left. You know, I would really largely agree with, I think, both Jank and Vinnie's critiques of the establishment of the Democratic Party.

And it's just so obvious to me. And it's amazing to watch an interview with James Carvel where he talks about how like, oh, why are people embracing wokeism or why are they embracing democratic socialism or anti-Israel feeling? And as if we're supposed to ignore what the democratic establishment's been doing this entire time, which was what, I mean, all through the Obama years, embracing and expanding George W. Bush's failed war on terrorism, giving us record high government spending, record low artificial interest rates, which created a cocktail that was just a gift to Wall Street. It was nothing but bailouts to the politically connected and to Wall Street. As Vinny pointed out, they had the open borders.

They went all the establishment of the Democratic Party back to back to back, went all in on Russiagate, the lockdowns, and the COVID VACs, and got all of them completely wrong, while smearing the rest of the country for not buying into it. I mean, just everything. The war in Ukraine, they went all in and got the whole thing completely right. I mean, like, so obviously, the wind is at the back of everyone who just simply opposed the genocide in Gaza, or just simply oppose the open borders,

or just like, this is where all the energy is now. But I got to say, I really find a lot lacking in kind of Jenks' broad defense of a lot of this stuff. Look, there is something so inherently dishonest about this entire Democratic socialist movement, starting with the fact that Bernie Sanders, who first popularized it, is not a Democratic Socialist and doesn't even know what Democratic Socialism means. I mean, Jank, you must have seen when he was on Bill Maher show,

what was it last year, a little over that, and they asked him about the difference, his position between equality versus equity. He had never heard the terms before. He was completely dear in the head, like did not, how does anyone live in this world and not have a thought? It's like if you asked me about the non-aggression principle and I hadn't heard of it. What are you talking?

This is your entire life's work. Bernie Sanders claims to be a Democrat. Socialist runs as essentially a welfareist. We should have a higher minimum wage and universal health care. Well, that's basically just being a liberal Democrat. But then he uses the term where Professor Richard Wolfe and Bhaskar Sankara, they'll tell you that they mean revolution, democratizing the entire workplace, outlawing all employers.

Well, hey, you're, so now these guys don't run as revolutionaries. They run as, hey, we're just talking about the unaffordability crisis, but they use the term democratic socialist. It's inherent. And look, I'll just say this. It's an extension of the dishonest thing that liberals and leftists have always done, which is that you frame the debate as whether we want free stuff or not. You frame the debate as whether you believe in free health care, free education, when, of course, my seven-year-old could understand that there's no such thing as free anything. As long as doctors are getting paid and teachers are getting paid and construction workers are getting paid, someone's paying for it. The debate is over whether you think that the violence of the state ought to be used to confiscate your wealth through taxation,

and then bureaucrats and politicians will decide how to give it back to you, or you believe in a free market system. But as soon as you start going to this free healthcare, free education, well, then why shouldn't the Democratic Socialist run to the left of James Carville and say, I'm for more free stuff? I'm for all the free stuff you're for, plus a whole lot more free stuff. The bottom line here is that anybody who thinks we need more government has lost the plot. The federal government's about to spend $7.5 trillion this year. We are going bankrupt. It is infantile for us to be having conversations about what more government programs we should be giving out to people right now. We're destroying the dollar trying to keep up with the entitlements in the warfare state that we cannot afford right now.

You had your breakfast this morning, didn't you, Dave? Well, you know, Vinnie said he missed you, and then I missed Vinny, and I got going. I miss you too. Lindy Lee, welcome back to Uncensored and congrats on your book. A very interesting comment from AOC in which she talked about what she called Woke 1. Let's take a look. Abolished prisons, abolished police, which is also positions that have been taken by a lot of the progressive candidates who have won. How do you get around that?

Those are not positions that are supported by most people. I mean, I think that a lot of these races, even right now, they'll have a tendency to be nationalized. Yeah. But these races ultimately are local, and all politics are local. My understanding is that Francesca Hong has made clear her present stances to her electorate. Yeah, she's moved away from a lot of that. She's moved away from it. And I have a local city councilman that has this saying, woke.

One was crazy? Now, you know, apart from the sort of breathtaking audacity of saying woke one was crazy, she was one of the biggest protagonist of woke one and all that embraced, right? She was the absolute face of woke one progressive left. But also, Lindy, I don't see a lot of difference to woke one and woke two. You know, I wrote a book last year called woke is dead, but I made the point. It's not actually dead yet, but I felt like the pendulum was swinging the right way. And then you have as a backdrop to what she was saying this week,

this absolute farce in the WMBA, where you have one of the players, Sophie Cunningham, saying what most people think, which is that it's unfair for biological males to compete against women in sport, and particularly in basketball that relies on power and strength and so on. And you've now got two former male basketball players, Ennis Cantor Freedom and Royce White announcing,

they're going to enter the 2020, WMBA draft. Now, they're doing it for quite a smart reason. They're testing how far this mindset is going to go, right? Are they actually going to be allowed to enter the draft, or are they going to be banned because they are men, which of course is the very argument that Sophie Cunningham has been laying out as what should happen anyway? So, you know, wokeism is alive and well. The distinction between woke one and woke two is pretty well lost on me. Where do you think we are with this? Because you can see an absolute split

between the hard progressive left, these democratic socialists, as they call themselves now, and people like James Carville trying to maintain some kind of middle ground, order, common sense to the party. You were in the Democrat Party, you know, right around the top players. What do you feel about what's happening here? It's the same thing with socialism, Pierce. Socialism, Democratic socialism is still socialism,

better branding, same with woke 1 and woke 2.0. And I think it's so rich that she has a gumption to actually say, oh, woke 1 is crazy. But she was on the progenitors of this movement that gave us cancel culture, that gave us biological denialism that said that biological men should be able to hijack women and girls sports, should be able to basically sabotage the futures of women and girls. And Pierce, thank you for the congrats on my book. You're in it. You made a huge difference, especially two years ago when I first left this crazy party, the same party, by the way, that now includes the DSA whose Constitution, and this is not hyperbole because it's written in their constitution, they want to abolish the United States Senate, the presidency, the Supreme Court.

Not only that, they also want to grant amnesty to tens of millions of illegal aliens in our country. They also want to abolish America's borders. Well, guess what? If we don't have border, we don't have a country. Sovereignty is so important. I don't want to be a globalist country, and we saw what happened with Spain just a few weeks ago. Tens of thousands of migrants poured in. I don't want America looking like Spain.

We can do better than that. And it's absolutely unconscionable for somebody to say that America deserved 9-11. I was a kid. I remembered what happened on 9-11. He is not sorry. He said that. He's only sorry he got caught.

caught. It's his true belief. It's what's in his heart. And there are millions of Americans. You guys are making things up. He's only sorry. Sorry, but you are. You're making things up. No, Chek, you have to stick up from because that's your nephew. Let her finish. Don't, I know you have to stick up for him because he's your nephew, he's your blood. But don't, a guy that hates America like that, don't do it. Let her finish, please. Jenk, I didn't interrupt you. But she's making things up. Go ahead. Keep making things up. He literally said it. I didn't put the words into his mouth. You don't know it.

He was an adult person. He was an adult who said those words. You should be held responsible. This is the same. This is the same party that espouses cancel culture, but suddenly for Saan Piker, we've just given the pass. Why? Yeah, but it was a stupid thing to say.

It was a stupid thing to say. He's acknowledged it was a stupid thing to say. He's acknowledged it was a stupid thing to say. And as soon as all those democratic establishments run everybody out who said Gaza deserved what they got after October 7th, then we could tell. You know, people say stupid things like this all the time. So there's so much to take. on Hassan. I just like, why just harp on this one dumb thing that he said? Look, more recently,

this is not just one. Yes, that's my point. Yeah, but you're harping on a bad one. But you're, okay, I'm gonna make your point better than you. Just let me do, hold on a little, instead of, oh my God, instead of cutting me off, just let me make the point better than you. Jenk, he is on record though, quite openly when he discusses Mao say tongue, he goes, yeah, man, I mean there were some excesses, absolutely. Like, I don't think he should, But hey, he industrialized China and all this. And I got to say, brother, you know that I love and respect you, Jenks. You got to understand, dude, that's freaking concerning for people.

You know, the fact that these types, whatever you want to call it, the left maximalist types, if they were to look at the industrial revolution in England or in the United States of America, they have nothing to say except for exploitation, capitalist wage theft, grueling labor conditions. But when it comes to Mao Zey Tong, who's slaughtering. people by the tens of millions, starting pointing guns at people's heads and forcing them off of farms into factories. We go, well, hey man, I mean, he did build a factory at the end of that. I'm sorry, dude, but like if someone was talking about Adolf Hitler that way, you would immediately have alarm bells going off, going like, whoa, what, and this is a thing that people

are creeped out about. There's something in Mom Donnie, there's something in a lot of these guys where why do I see a video from you five years ago and you have a thick African accent? Why were you a completely different person a few years ago? What's going on here? It's a reasonable question for people to ask. I have to say this. I'm sorry you have to say this. Jenk, you know who else Maldesdon murdered? He murdered my great-grandfather in cold blood

because he had the bravery to actually stand up for his people. He's the worst person who ever lived. Mouse Saitung is the worst mass murderer who ever lived. He murdered my family and countless other people, tens of millions. In fact, he has more blood in his hands than Hitler and Stalin. This is the guidance. Even worse than what the

Linde. Lindy's Rally's to be to Gaza is what he did, you know? Lindy, you're supposed to be cool with it because he's going to say he's sorry and Lindy,

forget about her. Forget about her just because he dresses like her like a Monséé Don goes to China. Yeah, let him, let him, it's okay because he says he's sorry,

Lindy, it's okay. Just get over it is the attitude that. Go ahead, go ahead, check. Let us, tell us that we should get over it. Go ahead. All right. So now I hope I have enough time

to address all three of them. So first off, you know, we get this, Hassan and I get this all the time. You know, why did your nephew say this? Why did your uncle say this? Well, if we agreed on everything, we wouldn't debate for three or four hours, right? So, okay, we're not the same people. That's a given. Now let's bifurcate the two different things that we're talking about.

Dave is right about clarifying the issues, right? So when we're talking about stupid statements that he immediately took back, you guys are inventing what's going on in his head. Oh, he doesn't mean it. He's secretly lying. He's this. He's that. No, did I talk to him about it?

We talked to him about it instantly. He came on the Young Turks instantly back then and said, look, I obviously I didn't mean it that way. And Vinny, the irony there is that what he meant and what he clarified is something that you largely agree with, which is that we're in the Middle East too much. And there's no need for us to go and provoke people there. There's no need for us to waste our military, lose American soldiers' lives. So, you know, that's the thrust of the argument, and that's been lost now. And why do we constantly going back to a couple of things that he said that are outrageous? Because it's smear by proxy.

The reality is that establishment media does not really care about Hassan. They care about smearing Abdul al-Said and all the other candidates that Hassan campaigns with. This is the same exactly what he did with me and for example. Hold on, hold on, Peters. Can I finish something? Check, you have to do it. This is the same exact smear they did to me in 2020. This is this same exact smear they do to all outsiders.

You guys are suckers. They're going to do to you next. It's not fair. And you know what? And you know what people do in terms? People hold people. People, look, here's what I would say, Jen. People hold me to account for what I actually say all the time.

If I had said America deserve 9-11, trust me, people would still be talking about it and demanding that my visa gets ripped up. So these comments matter. It is good that he withdrew them. But the defense, not a defense. Bullshit that they matter. Can I explain? Well, no.

Let me explain. Let me point out of hypocrisy in an overwhelming and empirical way. Explain, explain his comments about Mao Cetong, because they are extremely concerning. Okay, that's a second issue, which I'm going to get to in a second. But first, on the smear by problem. proxy. Okay, no, no, no, no. Why isn't anybody asking Mike Rogers, hey, do you denounce Benjamin Netanyahu? You're taking not only are you campaigning with the Israeli lobby,

not only are you associated with the Israeli lobby, you take money from the Israeli lobby, you are legally bribed by the Israeli lobby. So do you denounce the butcher of Jerusalem that has murdered 23,000 children? That is a very legitimate question, but somehow mainstream media can't ask that question. Why didn't they ask Kamala Harris, do you denounce Dick Cheney, who brought torture back, who got hundreds of thousands of people killed? Instead, they're like, oh, you're so wonderful for a bear-hugging Dick Cheney. Why didn't anybody get asked, don't you denounce Henry Kissinger?

So these are actual murderers who have slaughtered tens or hundreds of thousand people, but yet mainstream media doesn't do smear by proxy there. They never asked that question. Oh, what did Hassan say? What did Jank say? Well, by the way, what did Tucker Carlson say? What did Marjorie Taylor Green say? Notice that they always do this to outsiders,

to people who are not insiders, but mainstream media are so disgusting and corrupt that they protect the insiders like Mike Rogers. And we all agree. Everyone on this panel agrees to that. Everyone on this panel agrees, the real welfare queens, everyone on this panel agrees

that the real welfare queens are Israel who've been robbing us blind. Can we all agree, by the way, Hussein agrees with us, that we should all stand. stop the robbery. And look, peers, I am in the anti-war coalition. What would you say? What would you say? Hold on. In this coalition, we have Tucker Carlson and we have

Hassan Piker. They don't agree on a lot of things that I don't agree with Tucker Carlson's LGBTQ issues. I don't agree with Hassan on the Mao comments, but we're in the anti-war coalition. Let's stick together. Let's get Israel out of our government, defunded, end the wars, get money out of politics. And then we can go back to these. nonsense fights that don't matter because can you have one conversation right but the truth is hang on please hang on please hang on please I want to ask check a simple question

yeah hang on check you say that the mainstream media wouldn't go after somebody for saying you know difficult things or difficult positions or whatever I just don't think it's true if Donald Trump came out with the comments about Mao say tongue that your nephew did all hell would break loose And what Dave Smith rightly has asked you is, he said a dumb thing, he said a dumb thing about America and 9-11, and he came on your show immediately and retracted it.

Okay. But as Dave said, the mindset, which goes out of its way to minimize the actions of the most genocidal monster in the history of planet Earth is very concerning. And as your nephew's star rises, and he gets a big feature in Rolling Stone magazine and becomes the face of the progressive. left and so on, it is completely legitimate to ask why he would seek to minimize what Mao Saitung did. And I'm curious whether you as his uncle have an answer to that question. Again, we don't speak for one another. So I don't like Mao at all. I mean, to Lindy's point, my wife's grandparents on both sides, grandfathers on both sides, were in Shanghai Czech's army. They were generals in that army. They fought Mao, right? So, okay, but you put family aside.

I just don't agree with that. But guys, I don't agree with Tucker's positions on feminism. That doesn't mean I'm going to reject him as an ally in the anti-war movement, in the American sovereignty movement. So like you guys are doing cancel culture, but remember, cancel culture is against all of us. So, okay, you don't agree with him on mouth. I don't agree with him on mouth. So what?

No, no, no, but it's not, again, the point I was getting at, it's not to smear him or to cancel it. I just want people to stake out their positions clearly. And look, I get your point, brother. Like, I think I probably agree with almost everything you said in that rant. It just never addressed, like, my concern. And like, so listen, obviously, as you know, I'm not the guy who's trying to smear someone for being an anti-war critic.

And of course, you know that I know that, of course, a huge percentage of the opposition to your nephew and to Mom Dani. And all of this is just blatant Israel supporters who want to ruin him over that and then we'll find any other thing they can to discredit them. The point is that Hassan has also given him a ton of low-hanging fruit. And I'm asking the question about the mentality here, because, brother, I am with you if you're talking about how our money shouldn't go to funding a genocide or fighting a stupid war on behalf of a foreign country that is bankrupting and destroying our country. And I'm with you on the fact that screw any of them for getting morally outraged about anyone. You sit on the corpses of innocent dead children.

Here, talk to me about any moral outrage about what a streamer said on their stream. That being said, man, whether the factories are owned by individual capitalists or, what you're not, capitalists or whether they are owned by the central state is the difference between whether people die by the tens of millions or not. And that is true every single time that it's played out. And there is a movement on the left here who is flirting with these ideas as if they are serious. And I'm telling you right now, Jank, if these people like your nephew were to Real Deal get control of our Department of Agriculture, I'll be siding with the neocons against you. Because that's even worse. That's even worse than the warfare state.

is real deal state socialism, the worst invention in the history of humanity by far. No close second. And here you guys are, for some reason, you have a softness to it. It blows my mind. I don't. The same. No, but Dave. You're constantly independent.

Listen, listen. Hold on, hold on. Real quick, real quick. Look, Dave, you can debate Haas on Mao. I could debate Haas on Mao and I have, right? We're supposed to, by the way. I want to say that. What I don't want people, you got to facilitate that.

And Dave, and I might be, and Dave, I'm probably on your side on that debate. But guys, this is giving a misleading impression. There are zero Democratic candidates in favor of Mao. Okay, zero. So I don't want people saying, hey, I don't agree with Hassan on that. And hence, that represents the whole Democratic Party. It definitely does not. So as long as you're not conflating Hassan's most radical position with all Democrats,

No, it's a big tent. Almost no one, and certainly none of the politicians agree with him on that issue. So he's pushing the Overton window. You push it back, and that's a normal debate. Nobody's got to get canceled. That's simply not true. Mom, Donnie is on the reference saying that he wants to seize the means of production. This is not just, it's not someone's fanciful predictions.

He's literally saying this. And I think it's really curious that you never actually answered Pierce's question. What are your thoughts on now? You deflected by talking about Israel and Netanyahu. By the way, I kind of agree with you. I'm not an Israel supporter. I'm not part of the mainstream media. Yet I have concerns, legitimate concerns with your nephew.

And there's nothing to do with Israel. Israel isn't even part of my calculation here. But you completely deflected and said these people are mass murderers who killed hundreds of thousands of people. Well, guess what? Mao killed tens of millions of people and starve them to death. It's not okay to legitimize because there are millions of people watching your nephew. Okay, he's normalizing this trash. Lindy,

Lindy, if you're asking my opinion, that's super easy and clear. I'm totally against Mal. So, okay. And then what happened? Nobody's head exploded. Nobody, like, the Democratic Party didn't immediately, you know, melt.

It's okay. And by the way, you know how many people in the Democratic Party are in favor of Mal? About 13. Like, I mean, look, honestly, that not that many people are going to be with Hassan on that issue at all. So why do you think you're running a massive issue when zero Democratic politicians are in favor of it? Zero. Zero.

Why is this a giant issue? Guys, what you're not getting is that you're helping the guys. Look, no, but you guys get it, right? So what establishment does, they do it on all the issues, but they do it most on Israel, is they try to cancel people on the left and the right who are outsiders, and they do it by doing smear by proxy. I did that you have other issues with what Hassan is saying. But you guys are helping when you try, and by the way, people on the left then try to help

cancel Tucker Carlson and Marjorie Taylor Green. And it drives me crazy. Don't do that. Don't fit into the establishment of your my proxy. Chang, you are conflating canceling with making somebody accountable. If somebody is a rising political star, as Hassan indisputably is, then his stuff he said on the record should be held to proper microscopic account to see what he actually believes. No problem. And his minimalizing of his minimalizing of Mao's outrages and genocidal monstrosity is a very concerning part of his record. I want to, we could talk about this for hours, but you can debate in the son, but don't make it seem like all Democrats agree with him because that's that's the reason. Can you tell Hassan to come on? Don't make it. Abdul al-Said.

any of those things. All right. And you know that tomorrow on CNN, they're going to pretend that Abdul said it. Cheink, I would love to have Hassan on. I know people who have some baffling reason. I know, hang on, hang on, hang on day, hang on day. I would like to take, I would like to take up Hassan's uncle's offer to have Hassan on. I'm available any time he'd like to come on uncensored because at the moment, he keeps saying no. So if you could put a good word in, Chang, I'd appreciate it. By the way, you guys have never talked about why he's popular in the first place. He's popular because he's anti-war. He's popular because he wants to stick up for the average American.

And he might have a different way of doing it than you guys do. But he's not establishment. He's not corrupt. He's for money out of politics. He's for all the things that are super popular as well. And yes, Dave, you know, we have the same thing. And Medicare per all and higher minimum wage poll at 65% are higher. Those are super popular positions.

They're wrong now. And he hates America, Chank. He's hates America. He's dressing, like, can you understand? Wrap this around your head. He dressed up like freaking a cosplay Mao Zedong. He's in China walking around in love with China, praising him and saying how much he hates this country.

Then get the hell out of this country, Chang. And don't act like he doesn't have influence. He's a freaking streamer. Okay, he hates these capitalists and everything. Then give your money away. I hope he gives all his millions away, Cheng, because it's absolutely ridiculous. and don't act like he doesn't have all this influence

because he's hanging out with AOC who's looking like she's going to be the frontrunner. She's not even, she's just, she's not going to denounce his action. She's not going to say anything like that. Mind you, if you guys don't think she's a serious threat, David, check this out. She's freezing her eggs because she knows

she's going to be running and she's going to be a formidable fricking opponent. She doesn't want to have a baby. She doesn't want to deal with none of that for 2028 because she knows. All right. Gavin is the criticism. Let me all.

Okay. Let me. Let me. Okay, look, I just want to quickly pivot to Tucker Carlson because I've done a lot about the left. On the right, Tucker's come up with this 10-point vision for America. Vinnie, you said it was a nothing burger. I'm not so sure. It was.

I think Tucker is laying the groundwork here for a potential run of being president. And so those who think he can't get there, well, we currently have a president of the United States, who was a big figure on television, who's very charismatic and who resonated with millions of people. Tucker Carlson fits all those three criteria. And he is leading this splinter group away from MAGA, along with Thomas Massey, Marjorie Taylor Green, Joe Kent, who I've interviewed many times. I think he's a very intelligent, thoughtful guy,

many of whose views I completely agree with. So I would not describe Tucker's manifesto, which is how I read it. as a nothing burger. Why are you so dismissive of it? Did you, because, Pears, did you read it? Did you actually read the 10 points? Fairness, beautiful life, which it appears, fine, but there's no, there's no objective, no policy prescriptions, no nothing. And by the way, peers, I agree. And by the way, everybody on this panel, okay, everybody on this panel agrees about Israel's influence, about BB Netanyahu, about the freaking war in Iran, about October 7th. By the way, still

zero, zero. You'll have in here one peep from anybody saying how did October 7th even happen because of the security and freaking Israel to get to this point. So I'm, by the way, we're all on the same point. The overreaction of freaking

I love the new consensus. To say the least about BB and murdering and murdering all those freaking kids. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, we could all agree to it. But Tucker, and again, I'm not hating peers, but that 10-point plan, like, to me, number 11 was going to be

hold hands and sing kumbaya. There was no objectives. There was no, I want to hear your policy prescriptions and what you're going to actually do. It sounded cool, peers. Love everybody, harmony, budget, this, Israel, okay. But I want hardcore proof. And then looking at that photo, Peers,

at that dinner they had in Maine, Tucker, probably president, Joe Kent, you know, Secretary of Defense. I'm curious to who would be vice president. Would it be Massey? Would it be Marjorie Taylor Green? I mean, people say that this party it's going to be an easy thing to launch, Pierce.

It's not as easy as people say. By the way, I wouldn't be opposed to it, but I want to hear the actual prescriptions of policies on what you're going to do and what your day one is going to look like. That's my opinion. Well, Dave Smith, you know, it's interesting. For those who hasn't seen Tucker's 10 points, and were pretty much fair. Same rules of plan of presidents as voters. Sovereign, remove foreign lobbying and Israeli influence, productive, bring back farming, manufacturing, beautiful, reduce crime and drug use and challenge ugly urban planning, healthy, reduce the influence of big farmer, honest, open classified records,

optimistic, have more children, wise, education, biology, less tech for fads, decent, reverse department of war, stopped funding allies that commit genocide, united tighter immigration restrictions. They were broad brushstrokes, but they were a vision for America

that I suspect will resonate with a lot of people. And Tucker is extremely articulate. He can get very passionate. I could see him being very, very popular in an election. if he chose to run. The question, I guess, for him is can you possibly achieve success with a different new party? Or is what he's really trying to do reshape the Republican Party away from a MAGA-dominated party,

which he believes has been betrayed by the architect of MAGA, Donald Trump, and sort of in a way reinvent the Republican wheel around what MAGA ought to have been in his eyes? Yeah. Okay, so I mean, I find all there's so much to talk about here because we could, this could be like a 10-hour discussion on third party. You know, I've been very involved in the Libertarian Party over the last few years and there's a whole bunch of technical stuff about what it takes to make a party. A third party actually could be very useful and there could be a situation where you create a third party but also have candidates run as a Republican is the kind of long of the short of it. I agree with a lot of the particulars that Vinny. some fair kind of criticisms there. There's a lot of policy that still needs to be worked out. There's a lot of questions about, hey, who's really running for what, who's going in what position,

what exactly is the plan here. But I think that might be missing the forest for the trees if you more look at this as the very first step towards something bigger coming. You know, the consensus that Vinnie laid out there, I think we would all agree with. But of course, then there's a real strong implication in there, which is that the Trump,

experiment has completely crashed and burned and failed. And that's the reality that I think, I think right-wingers in America are slowly coming to grapple with right now. And look, I mean, I don't know what to say, man, if we're sitting here a year and a half after Donald Trump got elected and we're in a catastrophic war, a regime-change war in the Middle East that we just lost, and we're further in debt, and the Epstein scandal has been covered up, and no one's been held responsible for Russiagate, and nobody's been held responsible for COVID. And in fact, Donald Trump is saying that he's going to go along with Joe Biden's auto-pay. Well, then the drain the swamp and don't fight the wars anymore, America first thing has been a failure.

It is a betrayal, and people are feeling it. And Donald Trump specifically said, screw all of the most influential right-wing news shows in America and all of their hosts. Even Megan Kelly, even moderate Megan Kelly was castigated by this administration. And so, look, let's just be honest here. We've never really seen anything like this before. the number one news show in America's host launch a political effort like this, when we know that the grassroots of the country is so with him on these key issues. And so I think what he was laying out there was almost more, and he said this himself,

it was almost more of like, look, we don't have anything culturally that unifies us in this country anymore. We need to put together some broad goals that we're all on board with moving toward. Now, there's a lot of work to be done there, hammering all of that out. but to Jenk's point before about his nephew Hassan, and I promise I won't talk about him anymore. Would love to debate him, though, if he'll agree to. That was the first thing I said, Jenk. He's got the wind at his back

because he opposed the genocide in Gaza. Jank, it's the same thing with me and you, dude. We've had the wind at our back for the last few years just because we were against this most horrible, most indefensible of things. And Pierce, as has played out on your show more than any other show, the pro-Israeli position has just grown to be indefensible. And at this point, it's just a panel of all of us,

going, yeah, we all agree on this, that this is wrong. And if anybody comes on with the other position, they can't even get through one sentence because their lies are so obvious that everyone just sees through them. But now you have a position where Tucker Carlson, who's not only the number one guy, but is the best guy at giving a speech,

the best guy at cutting a promo, an excellent debater, just an unbelievable, talented orator. Yeah, I think there's enormous potential there, and I do think there's enormous crossover potential to appeal to people like Jenk. And I think, you know, the thing is that, People like me are not going to be getting, I'm not going to be able to get on board

if your message is we're collectivizing the means of production. But I think if Tucker's message is, hey, we want to go back to true Americanism. We don't want to be an insane country that's always fighting another war that we can't seem to win. Let's worry about our problems here. I think that is something that could become 80-20 issue with the 80 in support.

Yeah, I agree. Lindy Lee, what's your view of, I'm so sorry. What do you feel about what's happening with Tucker here? I completely sympathize with the anti-war position. In fact, you know, I agree with the original Donald Trump in January 2025 when he said, we should be applauded for the wars that we don't fight. And unfortunately, we got ourselves into this mess.

The straight of her moves is still kind of closed and interest rates are soaring and everyone is hurting. Gas prices are also soaring. And it just breaks my heart because we had a history. historic coalition here. We really did. And in the meantime, Americans are hurting across the country. I have to tell you, I mean, we're all, how quick we blew it. I come on, come on. Sorry, sorry. My mistake, I was just agreeing with you. My mistake. I apologize. I'm so sorry. I thought you were yelling at me again. No, no, no, no. I was just going to say,

it's remarkably quick. The idea that we, the coalition, which I was a part of that got Donald Trump, you know, reelected, the idea that we would have been at the greatest historical comeback in American political history. And just a year later, you know, I posted on Twitter a clip Pierce from me on the show a year ago when the Hawks were bragging about how the 12-day war was so successful. Remember back then the talking point was Tucker Carlson doesn't matter. It doesn't matter that we're losing Tucker and Candace and Megan and Alex Jones and all these people. It doesn't matter that all the most popular people. A year later, our entire conversation, this whole panel has been on how Hassan Piker has all the energy behind him, how Mom Dani has all the energy

behind him. If that's not a Trump failure, I don't know what would be. Well, I'm a little bit more optimistic. I still think he maybe has an opportunity to turn this around, but I have to tell you, American history clearly shows that third party efforts do not work. We saw it with Deodor Roosevelt, we saw it

just fails again and again. Worked with the Republicans. Worked with the Republicans. Yeah. What do you mean with Donald Trump? I think the Republicans were a third party. That's how Republicans got created. In 1860 something you're saying? It's been a while. Yeah, it's been a little later than that.

It's been a while. It's been a little later. I actually think that James Carville's prediction may come true that I think the Republicans may well lose the House and the Senate in the midterms. And that would render Trump immediately a lame duck president. And if that does happen, you have to say he'd only have himself to blame. I mean, he went directly against his campaign pledges not to engage in, in foreign. foreign wars and so on. He's had a direct impact on people's living standards, the cost of living in the wrong way to the one that he hoped, coupled with the tariff war, which is compounded,

I think, people's issues on that front. So if that was to happen, you could absolutely see a rising momentum for somebody like Tucker Carlson who says, look, I want to be the original Trump, right, the one we thought we were voting for, you know, the one who doesn't want to meddle in wars, who does want to take care of Americans and American families and interests and restore American values. You know, I could absolutely see Tucker doing very well post the midterms if that scenario happened and the Republicans lost control of Congress. I think you're going to see Tucker leading the charge of reframing Trumpism, if you like, into Tuckerism. Yeah, so I might be uniquely qualified to talk about this because Young Turks is, I think, the only show that's had as guest hosts, Assad Biker and Joe Kent and Marjorie Taylor Green and Dave Smith.

So we listen to both sides. And what's clear, I think not only to this panel, but to everyone watching is both the establishment Republicans and the establishment Democrats are excellent at snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. Donald Trump said that he was anti-war and for America first, and then he immediately betrayed that. And now he's down a 32% approval rating. He had it. He won all seven swing states. Joe Biden, the Democratic Party is supposed to be anti-war. It's supposed to be for American voters and the average American. But what did Joe Biden and Kamala Harris do? They snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. They both sets of parties, no matter who we elect, you know, there's that meme about no matter who you vote for, you get John McCain. there's another meme. No matter who you vote for, you get Benjamin Netanyahu. And that's true.

And that's what it's making both sets of parties, their brands, and their leadership deeply unpopular. It's not just that it's about Israel and war. Those are very, very important issues. But they're the tip of the iceberg. The iceberg is we don't trust you. We think you're corrupt. We think you work for the donors. All the donors, just not just the Israeli lobby. And that you sell us out. And that you're never going to going to do what we want. So there is a massive opportunity. There's two sets of people that I think can take that opportunity. And we're going to see what history and fate brings us. But there's the populist left wing in the Democratic Party. The most underrated potential candidate is Roe Kana. Ro Kana got Epstein Files released. Ro Kana was 100% against this war. It's for defunding Israel.

He has all the super popular populist positions. And he doesn't get too much into the social issues. That's exactly the right lane. That would capture about 70% of this country. Now, if Tucker Carlson does, there's a reason why he had that kind of vanilla benign thing that Benny's criticizing. Because in order to win, you have to divorce yourself from the social issues, whether you're on the left or the right. But once you get past the culture wars, which are meant to divide us, don't fall into that trap if you're a populist in either direction. Once you get past that, that's 70% of the country that agrees with you. stand up for america american voters let's give them things that they want not

foreign governments not corporations not the endless subsidies not the endless corruption so if row does that within the democratic party i think he'll win if tucker does that either within the republican party or outside of the party and the democrats make the mistake of putting a corporate stooge on there like buddich or comla harris then we're gonna lose and they're gonna win so whoever gives the people what they want and they're very very clear about about what they want. Take the popular positions and you'll win. It's not that complicated. That's why Roe and Tucker are going that way, even though they massively disagree on social issues.

Here's, I also just want to thank you. Well, Lindy, I'm sorry, we've run out of time, Lindy, but I just wanted to end by how we started actually with Hassan Piker, because Elon Musk, as we've been debating, just tweeted about Hassan, he means what he says. It was a quote tweet citing, Hassan Pikes is saying, we're going to destroy the white race bitch, which was apparently a satirical comment he claimed at the time. Hassan has just posted back to Elon in response, I am white, laughing my ass off. I think that seems an appropriate way for us to conclude this debate. With the panel looking completely pervues, shaking their heads, I do have an answer for you,

though. Shaking their heads, they're wondering, how do we get here? So, for Pierce, real quick. You said, imagine if Trump said something like what Ha said about Mao? I don't have to imagine he did. Remember, he said he fell in love with Kim Jong-un, the North Korean communist dictator. So I guess every Republican has to denounce that because he did literally say he fell in love with him and they wrote love letter. The only surprising thing about what you've just said is it's taking you this long to think of it.

Normally you'd be a lot quicker. So I can only blame the blazing. I didn't get a word in edgewise there. That's why. The blazing, the unseasonably hot LA sunshine, it clearly slowed you down a bit. Guys, a great, great debate. Thank you all very much.

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