Piers Morgan Uncensored - "He Wants to DESTROY America!” Rudy Giuliani vs Cenk Uygur on Zohran Mamdani

Episode Date: June 30, 2025

Zohran Mamdani is the charismatic Muslim socialist who doesn’t believe billionaires should exist, who just won a stunning victory in the Democratic primary for mayor of New York City - and already some of his policies are raising eyebrows. It seems the Democratic identity crisis is no closer to a resolution - and meanwhile, President Trump is racking up win after win, with nobody on the left to burst his balloon. Joining Piers to debate all this is former NYC mayor Rudy Giuliani - who has some choice words to say about Mamdani - plus The Young Turks’ Cenk Uygur, NewsNation’s Geraldo Rivera and former DNC fundraiser Lindy Li. Piers Morgan Uncensored is proudly independent and supported by: Tax Network USA: Call 1-800-958-1000 or visit https://TNUSA.com/PIERS to meet with a strategist today for FREE Ridge Wallet: Upgrade your wallet today! Get 10% Off @Ridge with code PIERS at https://www.Ridge.com/PIERS #Ridgepod Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

You are a self-described democratic socialist. Do you think that billionaires have a right to exist? I don't think that we should have billionaires. Do I see him as an enemy American? What he's saying? You're damn right, I think he's going to destroy New York City. This guy becomes mayor. This city is gone.

Deeply bigoted, and that's what Rudy Giuliani was. Bigoted nonsense. Total trash. Ignore every lie he just said. I'd like to say Rudy Giuliani's been listening, and actually didn't really want to leave. So we've got Rudy back. Rudy, welcome back. Almost eight months on from the presidential election,

and it's still unclear who is leading the Democrats from the method of the old campaign from the center, the left, or the very, very left. Or Zoran Mandani may offer a clue. He's a charismatic Muslim socialist who doesn't believe billionaire should exist, and he just won a stunning victory in the Democratic primary for mayor of New York City, the biggest in the United States. Some of his policies are already raising eyebrows.

We went on your website and realized there's a policy proposal that says your plan, and I'm going to quote it for folks, is to shift the tax burden from overtaxed homeowners in the outer boroughs to more expensive homes in richer and whiter neighborhoods. Explain why you are bringing race into your tax proposal. That is just an description of what we see right now. It's not driven by race. It's more of an assessment of what neighborhoods are being undertaxed versus overtaxed. Well, the backlash has been swift, and in some cases, let's face it, racist, Congressman Andy Ogles. called him Little Muhammad, while Nancy Mace accused voters of quotes

forgetting 9-11, close quotes. Marjorie Taylor Green posted a picture of a Statue of Liberty in a burqa before later praising him in an interview with Tucker Carlson. That guy was the only person in the New York City mayor's debate to say he wanted to focus on New York City. They were all the candidates were asked, if you could visit a foreign country, what would it be? And they, of course, all had an answer.

I think most said Israel, great. And he said, I wouldn't go anywhere. I stay in New York. And like if I want to meet Jewish constituents, I go to their synagogues, their homes, or whatever. But I'd be here in New York because that's what I'm doing. I'm running New York. That's my job. Well, he gave the right answer.

He gave the right answer. Yeah. Well, Mayor Eric Adams, who was elected as a Democrat, but he's running as an independent, accuses Mamdani of, quote, embracing Hamas, close quotes. What's most revealing, though, is the icy reception from serving senior Democrats,

including the current House leader and the New York governor. Let's start with the big news, leader Jeffries out of your hometown. Mamdani won a big victory. Have you endorsed him yet? I have not. And frankly, stylistically, and I'm not a socialist, and I don't associate myself with what he has said about

the Jewish people. Will you support his candidacy, and will you back him? You know, the election just completed. I had a chance to call and congratulate him on the Tuesday's primary, and look forward to having conversation. Obviously, there's areas of difference. Well, 10 years ago, the UK's Labour Party ran a very left-wing campaign, which saw them walloped to the general election.

They responded by appointing Jeremy Corbyn as a leader, a radical elder socialist who, funnily enough, was ousted in an anti-Semitism scandal. The bottom line is that the democratic identity crisis is no closer to a resolution now that it was on November 5th. Meanwhile, President Trump is racking up win after win after win, and the left has nobody to burst his balloon. So the biggest winner in the current DNC Civil War

is probably Maga. In a moment, we'll debate all this with my panel, founder and CEO of the Young Turks, Cheongueh, News Nation correspondent, Harada Rivera, and the former DNC fundraiser, Lindy Lee. But first, to give us plenty to debate, I'm sure I'm joined by the former mayor of New York, Rudy Giuliani. Rudy, great to have you back on Unsensored.

Good to see you, Pierce. Your reaction to this character who's come out of nowhere, and now the whole of America is talking about him, what's your response? to Mandani Mayhem? A total shock. Something I never thought I would see in New York. New York has always been a little bit more inclined

to be reasonable when necessary. I mean, we're the only one of these crooked Democratic cities that at any time in the last 60 or 70 years has elected a Republican, Chicago's 70 years of Democrats, Detroit. I mean, you've had me, LaGuardia, Bloomberg. They don't have anything like that. like that, no reform, nothing. So plus, where the biggest Jewish city, for a while,

we were the biggest Jewish city in the world. I think Tel Aviv has now passed us. So this is a shock to me that somebody like this would come along. And there isn't even just the anti-Semitism in the anti-Jewish hate. We've almost gotten used to it in the streets of New York now over the last two to three years. This guy has a major supporter of Hamas. This is a terrorist group that wants to destroy, not just Israel. They want to destroy America.

Their children are taught from about two years old, death to Israel, death to America. Rudy, where has he expressed any support for Hamas? Because I haven't seen that. Oh, my goodness. I mean, he was, by and large, he wouldn't condemn what they did when they wiped out the Israeli people.

He has refused to condemn them. He refused to acknowledge to a terrorist group. time he's asked, he just kind of punch on the question. He has very, very, very strong statements that sound a lot like Hamas, interfaata forever, interfater all over the world. And then he tries to claim that he has his own definition of interfaata. You know, sorry, Zohran. You're not entitled to your own definition of intifada. They've killed him about 8,000 people. that kind of sets a definition for it.

We know what you're talking about. So I think you could put together a case that he supports an internationally acknowledged terrorist group that is a close ally of Iran. I mean, remember, although one is Sunni and the other is Shia, and they hate each of Iran and Hamas. They join on two things. Destroy Israel, destroy America.

Death to America, death to Israel. That's what brings Iran and Hamas together. together. Really, why, if you believe he's so, you know, the way you've just categorized, why have so many New Yorkers in a city, as you said, which has more Jews outside of Israel than any city in the world, why would they have rallied behind this guy if he's such an enemy of Jewish people? Well, you know, peers, that's a very good question.

It leads me to what's wrong with the people in my city. What's wrong in the people of Chicago? I mean, they had a mayoral primary a couple of years ago, and they picked the most out. outrageous, the most radical and the dumbest candidate for mayor, who's now a complete disaster. And they've been doing it for 65 years, even though they get there a shooting gallery every Saturday, every Saturday night. There's a brainwashing that has taken place in these old Democrat cities. It's the same reason why you'll go into some districts in New York, and Biden got 95% of the vote. How could that have happened if the people are thinking, clearly, how do we elect Toblasio?

Duplosio went to Cuba on his honeymoon. He was in favor of the San D'Anestanist, and his mother was a member of the Communist Party at Harvard. And then after his first term, he was a complete failure. We had a 22% turnout, and we re-elected him. And he's the one who really destroyed the city. And he literally took everything Bloomberg and I did and trashed it.

I get people that come up to me on the street, cry it, and say to me, you must feel awful. Everything you did was ruined. But Rudy, when you have a Muslim candidate in a city like New York, and people start evoking 9-11, start putting burkas on a Statue of Liberty and all the stuff I played earlier, does that not make you feel uncomfortable? New York is one of the most inclusive cities in the world, a place normally that's very tolerant to many different religions,

many different colors and creeds, right? Surely you would feel uncomfortable as the mayor of New York when that appalling terror attack happened. Are you comfortable that people, use 9-11 as a stick to beat him with? Nobody's doing that, peers. Well, they are. I was the people who protected the Muslim people after 9-11.

People expected a tremendous amount of reaction against them. And Bernie Carrick and I put together a task force for four weeks, and there was no attack in New York, not a single one, even though you might have expected one, given the kind of emotion involved. And I talked, one of the first things I said, as I was telling my people to please be careful and watch out, There might be another attack is do not touch anybody. We're not going to be like them.

We don't hate Muslim people. We hate the people who did this. And we have to make a clear to them, but we can stand up to them. But then again, I'm not a fool. I know there are a substantial number of Muslims, and there's a substantial amount of the Koran that talks about slaughtering Christians and Jews. And there's a whole group of Muslims who believe that. And unfortunately, an undetermined number of them got into this country in the last four years.

unlike any other time in our history because of our pathetic President Biden, who also gave Iran hundreds of millions of dollars, hundreds of millions of dollars, and Obama did it in cash. Would you have a problem, Rudy? Would you have a problem with a Muslim mayor of New York?

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Let Tax Network USA make the next move, not the IRS. Not if he told me he would write out the portion of the Quran where Muhammad is exhorting the people to kill Christians and Jews and telling him if he doesn't kill them, they should get tribute from them. If he's like some of the imams that I'm close to who can write that out and can say that,

I'd be very comfortable with him. If he's dominated by that sick pathological philosophy, which dominates not all Muslims, but more than a comfortable amount, given all the killing they've done, then I have a real problem with it. And he doesn't sound like a moderate Muslim. He sounds like a Muslim extremist. You said, Rudy, that you think there may need to be an investigation to see if Mamdani is an enemy of America.

Is that the kind of language that is sensible? You said, Mr. Benny Johnson. I didn't mean an investigation criminal. I meant for the purpose of voting. You and I should do the investigation as voters. Do you see him as an enemy of America? Do I see him as an enemy of America? What are he saying?

My personal, personal. Yes. You're right, I do. I think he's going to destroy New York City. I think this is a disaster time for New York City. This guy becomes mayor. The city is gone. People are leaving the city already.

You can't say things like the things he's saying and not frighten the hell out of people. I mean, it has nothing to do with even 9-11. Had 9-11 not happened, he'd be an enemy of the city. He's espousing a philosophy that wants to destroy America, wants to destroy the Jewish people, wants to destroy the Christian people. I really would like to destroy all the Muslims who disagree with them.

And he is a very strong supporter of that, and he doesn't make a distinction. And he becomes very cute and stupid and silly. Plus, he's totally unqualified. He's a 33-year-old do-nothing from a rich family who's never accomplished a damn thing in his life. Whenever we've gotten a mayor like that, he's been a terrible failure, like DeBosian. This guy's not an accomplished man. He's a rich kid who has learned excessive, crazy philosophy so that you can sound smart, I think.

That's the best explanation I can give them. It might be worse. Rudy Giuliani, always good to talk to you. Thank you very much from Dave for joining me. Thanks, Pierce. Good to see it. You look great. Thank you.

So do you. Let's debate this now with Cheng, Haraldo, and Lendi. Well, Cheng, you were putting a lot of faces there. What did you make of what Rudy Giuliani said? Yeah, your audience should ignore everything Rudy Giuliani just said. Everything was a lie. He's never, Mamdani's never supported Hamas, never said the word intifada, doesn't hate Jews or Christians. Muslims don't have to write out parts of the Quran.

It would be absurd to say, hey, if you're a Jew running for mayor, you've now got to write out parts of the Torah or the Talmud. Otherwise, we don't accept Jews. If you said you're a Christian running, but you've got to cancel out parts of the Bible, otherwise we won't like Christians run. It would be deeply bigoted, and that's what Rudy Giuliani was. bigoted nonsense, total trash, ignore every lie he just said. Now, let's talk about, look, there's three different types of people going against Mumdani. There's the economic criticism, which is interesting, legitimate, and debate-worthy.

Then there's the people who are opposed to him because he won't bow his head to Israel. That's Rudy, and that's almost everyone in Democratic establishment and the Republican establishment. So those folks say, no, that's it. this guy won't bow if he won't bow to Israel if he's New York first unacceptable he has to be Israel first

and that's absurd and they're deeply racist and they're bigots and I can't stand it so there's other critiques of Mamdani we can get into but in terms of this whole attack against

him being Muslim and him not kissing Israel's ass is totally not relevant to New York and is only an argument made by bigots. So I hope I've been clear enough. I think you've made your position very clear. Geraldo, welcome back. Well, I think several things. Nice to see her Pearson and panel. I think, first of all, he has used the expression intifada. He wants to globalize the interfaada, and he speaks about it quite often. Let me finish.

Secondly, I agree with you. I agree with you. Please, it's not, it's on the record. Just look it up. The second thing is that the whole notion, the whole notion of moving the tax burden in New York from the richer, wider neighborhoods to the richer wider neighborhoods, as if the richer, wider neighborhoods don't pay enough in tax. We've had enormous flight of the people who do pay tax to the suburbs and to other states, and all we have to do is increase the tax, the real estate tax, even more under his proposal. and you'll have no taxable base. You'll have no rich white people to pay the tax. The third thing, and curiously, I agree in a twisted way about the situation with the Palestinian ads. I believe that what you saw, and this is the underreported headline, I believe,

is that you saw a cataclysmic shift in the Jewish vote. It was a generational shift. Older Jews and the neighborhoods that were 100% Jews, like the Hasidic neighborhoods and others, they went with Governor Cuomo in the Democratic primary just passed. The people who voted against Cuomo and for Mamdami were the young Jewish voters who are activists, who are in the hundreds of thousands in New York, They are, you know, half of that generation in the city of New York.

They are part of the lifeblood of the city. They rejected their parents, Israel always and forever, no matter what, kind of view. And they are sick to death of what's happening in Gaza. They can't stand to see Israel continue to wage this very, very unfair, violent campaign against civilians in Gaza. Now you're not talking about Iran. You're not talking about Syria or Hezbollah with a big, big picture. But you're talking specifically about what's going on in Gaza. It has sickened.

I know I have kids in New York. Two of my children live in New York. Two now, I just hesitate because one just moved. But two live in New York. They vote in New York. I voted for Giuliani. I voted for Bloomberg. But to see these kids, these kids are rejected.

their parents, Israel always and forever, no matter what, and saying, wait a second, Israel has to be held to the same standard as any other nation. We're not going to let you push us, and we are voting, and they rejected the Democratic establishment candidate and the old school ways, and they embrace something much more energetic and humane and compassionate, I believe. Yeah, and I think also I would add to that. Cuomo is hardly a clean whistle when it comes to candidates.

There's a lot of baggage there, which people have probably not forgotten, and, you know, memories live long. Lindy, you were listening to that quite intently. I mean, it's a really interesting political story, isn't it? That this guy in Mamdani's come out of nowhere, and he's basically taking down one of the most experienced politicians in the country in Andrew Cuombe. It's not over yet, but it's looking pretty perilous for Cuomo.

You were part of a democratic machine. What did you put this down to? It is pretty much over because Cuomo won't quit. So Cuomo and Eric Adams are both running. So what do you think is going to happen? They're going to split the opposition vote to Mom Donnie. So chances are he's going to be the next mayor. And Chankan, I just want to say my opposition to him has nothing at all to do with Israel or his faith.

It's nothing. It's to do with his Marxist ideology. And I have to say, I feel sick to my stomach because of it. I was born in an authoritarian communist regime that murdered my great grandfather in cold blood. So anything that wreaks of communism to send shivers down my spine. And every one of his proposals from taxing wider neighborhoods to government-run groceries to free buses, all these policies will end up hurting the very people he purports to want to help. And Pierce, he brought up a really good question when you were speaking with Rudy.

You asked him why so many New Yorkers voted for this guy. But let me put it into perspective for everybody. Only 5% of New Yorkers did. Most people didn't even bother showing up. So 5% of one of the biggest cities in the world is actually not a significant amount at all. It's just really unrepresentative of where the city is. Many of us carry around bulky worn-out wallets

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P-I-E-R-S, at Check out, let's head to ridge.com and use code peers. After you purchase, they will ask you where you heard about them, so please support our show and tell them I sent you. Well, I mean, to a point, but at the same time, that is what the vote was, and it has come as a real political earthquake. Not least everything to the Democrats themselves.

You must be thinking what the hell is happening here. Yeah, and the Democratic Party is completely broken. We've tread this ground so many times. They're a vestige of a past. But I want to say that this isn't so much a vindication or endorsement of Mondani is a flat-out rejection of Andrew Cuomo and everything he represents. Everyone from left to right season was a deeply corrupt individual who should never be anywhere near public office again.

Okay, well, listening to all this. I can delight to say Rudy Giuliani's been listening and actually didn't really want to leave us. So we've got Rudy back. Rudy, welcome back. So just to clarify what a few of the panelists... Rudy, by the way, you and I have exchanged a lot of mean tweets. I want to apologize. I don't know.

You blocked me. I think you were very angry. I just want to take this opportunity to extend a novel branch. Well, okay. Rudy? Well, I don't... I'm not aware of them. I wonder if they were as excessive as the original attack on me by...

I thought my friend there, highly personal and really nasty. Oh, it wasn't as a... And over the top. But in any event, I mean, he's actually quoted, I have it here at two different events using the word globalized to the interfaith. Your candidate, Zoron. And then he weasels out of it by, I mean, just go look at it as, as he was just told. I mean, try something like reading. You're missing to the stage.

He doesn't say it. But he also doesn't condemn it. He defends it. Is that a lot better? Just yesterday on Meet. the press when he was speaking with Kristen Walker, he defended the phrase again, come on. It looks really

bad. It's not something you should say. He doesn't use it. There's a difference. He defends it. The key point is he doesn't condemn it, is the point, right? So he doesn't condemn it. Which actually, in the modern climate, for a New York City potential man not to condemn

a phrase like Globalizing the Card is pretty big deal. It's terrible. It's damning. The reality, the reality is he tries to tries to redefine the intifada as his own definition of the interfaida. It's not violent. Well, go tell that to the thousands of people that have been killed. I used to go to Israel in the late 90s and the early 2000 with the Evo Omer was mayor. I've been in hospital seeing girls. These faces were ripped apart by Hamas.

There was an interfaada. There were two of them. It killed thousands of people. And it has no other definition. And the guy's playing a sick communist game. of double speak. And change, let me bring check. I'm going to bring check back in. Hang on, hang on. He's a total empty suit. Let me bring Chink back in,

because another problem Mandani may have as this goes on, is he's on record as saying that he wants to defund the police. He's tried to distance himself from that, but he said it. He insisted that queer liberation means defund the police. I mean, again, the idea that somebody, maybe the mayor of New York would actually have that as a quote on their record is pretty extraordinary. Is he going to be able to shake off these quotes like that,

which to many New Yorkers would be complete an affront. Rudy, when he was mayor of New York, the famously the broken windows strategy of fixing the small stuff and police everywhere and empowering them and resourcing them and so on. And now you've got a guy who wants to defund the police. He also accuses them of being racist. He also accuses them of being racers when they are a non-majority police department. There's nothing racist about the New York City Police Department.

The last time DeBosio did that, he got two cops killed. And that's what led to their turning their back on him. There was a riot in Baltimore. And DeBazio, like this other crazy communist, went out and said, oh, New York is racist too. And a guy came up from Baltimore, and he shot two detectives, assassinated him four days later. And that's why the cops turned their backs on that gun.

All right. These people are dangerous and they get people killed. And you know who gets killed? The black people get killed as a regardless. Yes, no? You don't know. What the hell you're talking about. There's no one.

Check, you go. You go. Okay. So a bunch of misnomer's there. First of all, it was his highest voter turnout in a Democratic primary in a long time. I was part of the AOC campaign. We were counting on low voter turnout. Not in this case.

The tide has changed. The younger people like Geraldo said are voting. for change and middle classes voting for change. So you guys play word games, but down to the main question that Peers was asking. Look, there's some of his policies that I don't agree with. I don't agree with defund the police. I wouldn't have had government-run grocery stores

at the top of my list. I just wouldn't have, right? And I'm not saying it's a bad idea. I just wouldn't have prioritized it. So free buses, that's super interesting. I want to see how it works. These are not my policies, but the Democrats in New York elected him

and so let's let him give it a shot, right? So in terms of, you know, defunding the police, again, let's be careful and he is careful. He at least says it the right way. I don't like the phrase at all. But what he's talking about is moving some portion of the money towards social services. So, okay, you could say, I don't want to try that. That's fine. You've got a general election coming up.

But a lot of his economic policies are for change. That's the third issue that I mentioned peers in the beginning. And so overall, I'm for change. I'm against the establishment. So if this brother wants to try the grocery stores, he wants to try free buses, et cetera, let him take a shot at it. We've already seen what the establishment has to offer,

and it's nothing but pulp. It's driven this country into the ground. I don't want another Cuomo. I don't want another Adams. I want change. Well, okay. Let me just, I want to ask Geraldo, actually, first. Then come to you, Lindy.

Because it's interesting, actually, what Chech just said, because the conservative writer Rod Dreher likened Mamdani's win to Trump's. He said New York left-wing voters, quotes, lashed out against what they regard as a failed liberal establishment, electing a charismatic populist who promised a clear break with the past. We on the right can shake our heads and laugh at how dumb New York liberals or progressives were to choose a candidate as politically inexperienced and radical as Mandani. But don't miss that this was also a referendum on the Democratic Party itself.

And, you know, I do remember, Haraldah, when in 2015, Donald Trump came down the famous elevator saying, I'm going to run for president, everyone mocking and laughing and saying he's got no experience. This is a ridiculous candidate quoting all sorts of incendiary things he'd said before, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and he won. And he's now won again. So is it mad for the Democrats to actually go for a young kind of their version of Trump? I think we'll, in New York at least, mostly be a... affected by people's wallets, by people's pocketbooks. There is no way that the middle class, the upper middle class, the strivers, the hard workers, the college educated business creators, there's no way that they're going to tolerate more tax, more income tax, and to think that you're going to have free transit and free food and free housing, free everything. There's no such

thing as a free lunch. My goodness, haven't we learned? There's no way to have socialism in a city that needs, in a city that needs the vibrancy of Wall Street to create the jobs. It's not just the brokers that, it's the grocery guy on the corner of Wall Street. It's the Uber driver, et cetera, et cetera. If you take the tax base of New York and attack it anymore, it will be a failed city like so many others. And it's the last thing.

We have to embrace the police. We have to embrace the job creators. We have to try to lower taxes in the richer, wider neighborhoods, so they don't go to Scarsdale and other communities, upscale communities, that don't tax nearly as much. And in terms of the cops, my goodness, I voted for Giuliani and Bloomberg before him, and the change in the city over those five terms was extraordinary.

It was a functioning, workable, integrated city where the goals and the dreams of socialists were realized with the fruits of capitalism. So I think that this kid is way off the mark. But I also believe that if all these people run on independent lines, as promised now Eric Adams, Andrew Cuomo, Curtis Lewa, he could win. You could have the first,

young Muslim, you know, mayor of the biggest Jewish city in North America. You could, it could happen, and it could happen particularly if the soar of Gaza continues to deep. Yeah, I think you're right. By the way, wouldn't that be beautiful, guys? Well, actually, it would be an amazing thing. It would be an amazing thing. And I actually thought that, I actually thought, Chek, the way Heraldo framed it earlier, that 100 of times of young Jewish people.

male and female who actually do not share the view that you just of their parents and grandparents, that you have to have just blind, devoted loyalty to Israel, particularly if its government is behaving in the way that is currently behaving in Gaza. And they voted for a Muslim mayor. And isn't that a beautiful thing about America? I mean, isn't that a beautiful thing about America that we don't care about religion, that young Jewish voters and young Christian and Muslim voters could vote for a Muslim candidate? they believe in his economic message and his message of justice.

That's what America is supposed to be all about, that we forget about this race and religion stuff and vote on the substance. You talk about him implementing change, but all of his promises are lies. When we can go through and debunk every single one, for example, he says he wants to offer free buses, but guess what's going to happen then? If you don't charge anything for buses, there's no funding for transportation coming in. So how are you going to maintain your infrastructure fleet? And if you control rent, the supply of housing is going to decrease and the quality will decrease as well.

And most importantly, though, who's going to pay for it when the governor, New York herself, Kathy Hockel vowed that she would not be raising taxes. So every single thing he said was actually a lie. Either he knew it or he doesn't. I don't know which is better. Is it deception or over? Well, I just told you. No, Lindy, it's not a lie. of things that could just not happen because the governor is not raising taxes.

He can't operate in a vacuum. Okay, not everyone is a communist, to have to partner with other people in the government and collaborate. It's a whole of government approach. It's not microcosm. You're saying you disagree with his approach, but to say that it's a lie doesn't make sense. No, he really does want free buses,

and he has a plan for free buses. Now, you can say, hey, I don't think that plan is going to work, and I think it's going to have negative consequences. Well, good news. Let's hope we're about to find out, okay? And maybe you're wrong. Maybe the free buses totally work out. And in fact, there are different ways to finance it.

I think he went into the campaign, knowing that he was offering false promises to the New York people. Another thing that I find extremely alarming is saying that he said his ultimate goal is to seize the means of production. That is something straight out of animal farm right there. It has no place in the United States of America. He certainly has all these got a lot of quotes on his track record. I want to pivot just before we finish this.

Rudy, I want to talk to you about Donald Trump because you could argue the last two or three weeks have been the best, really, of his entire time as president. First and second term combined. You've got this extraordinary strike on Iran's nuclear capabilities and a ceasefire coming when people did not anticipate that happening so quickly. He's got NATO to stump up to 5% of. GDP on individual spending.

A massive win at the Supreme Court, of course. You know, peace deal in Africa. He brought peace between India and Pakistan when that was flaring up. He's moving hard to try and get peace in Gaza. He's moving hard to try and get peace in Ukraine. If we end up at the end of the year, and there is peace in Ukraine, there is peace in Gaza, and all the other things I've mentioned here,

not to mention the southern border, has pretty much stopped now having anyone coming over illegally. And the economy, if that is purring away as well, given that the stock market is pretty much back where it was before the tariff war started. So he's obviously pleasing the markets. If you put all that together, this could be a stunning, successful year for Trump.

Well, Pierce doesn't want to ifs, but they're all ifs that he's aiming toward. And I think people, because of their insublishment, their insanity about him, having recognized that there's a different Donald Trump since Buckleau County. Much more serious, much more concerned about the future, much more concerned about life and death, and frankly, much more spiritual. Yeah.

It's a different Donald Trump than the one Geraldo and you and I grew up with. Yeah. I don't disagree with that. Chink, I mean, putting aside the fact you can't stand him, and do you acknowledge he's had a lot of wins? Well, yeah, I... Look, I give credit. Rudy, that one's for me, too.

Yeah. So, look, I give credit where credit is due. Yeah, give him credit. So, no, on some things. So, look, I think that the budget bill's a disaster. I think that it's going to pass and it's going to create $4 trillion deficit. And they always give away tax cuts for the rich

and then go, oh, golly, gee, I don't know how we got wound up with such a big debt. it's because of Republicans who pass these giant tax cuts. And I can go, and I don't like Marines in the streets. There's a million things that I criticize Donald Trump on that, and he deserves that criticism. But the proof's going to be in the pudding, right? So if he walks back all the tariffs, as he's in the middle of doing now, he closes the border, and this is the critical part.

If he gets a two-state solution, which just sounds so unbelievable, right? But if he gets that to happen, then there's no way that you could stop his popularity. Because at that point, he will be a peace president. He probably will win a Nobel Peace Prize. And it'll cement his legacy. And there's nothing that anybody can do about it. But that's a giant if, right? But if he allows Israel, which is much more likely,

if he allows Israel to continue the slaughter in Gaza, he continues having them agitate for war in Iran. And he continues with the tariffs. He continues with Marines in the streets and National Guard in the streets, et cetera. Then he's going to continue to be more and more, popular. So the jury is very much outright. All right. Haraldo, you know, I thought Rudy hit on something there.

Rudy has slipped off into the night, I think. But thank you. Unexpected bonus to have him return. The thing he said, though, about Trump being a changed man since the assassination attempt, I've definitely detected that when I've talked to him. I also think he's a man who's got a second lease at life, a second lease at the presidency,

and he's on a mission, a real fast-track mission to get stuff done, because because he knows come the midterms that things may slow down. He might get paralyzed in terms of his ability to get stuff through. So he's on a mission in these first two years, I think, to get as much done as he possibly can and to do it in a pretty blunt and often quite savage way because he knows from his first term

that if you don't do that, you won't get stuff done. Well, I think I agree and disagree. I disagree because I believe that his draconian policy, toward undocumented immigrants in this country, not the border. The border is fine, sealed the border, but the people who are here who have proven to be law-abiding and hardworking and God-fearing and family-oriented, they are living in terror now.

I'll tell you right now here is I've never seen anything like it, particularly Hispanic. It's close to home. It is, you can't find workers now. service people. The Hamptons are in panic over, you know, our affluent

holiday spa in the eastern end of Long Island now. Can't find Mexicans to come and work there. It's shocking and it's awful. In terms of his spirituality, just very, very briefly, he's been always extremely easy to underestimate.

He's, you know, he has all kinds of enemies, everywhere he turns, but he has, has gone through the list of achievements that you listed. There is so impressive. It's historic. And he's a slam dunk, I think, for the Nobel Prize, particularly if he could, Gaza and Ukraine,

if he can figure those out, then God bless him. He deserves it. Absolutely. Yeah, Lindy, I mean, I thought Harada made a good point, though. I don't understand about the deportation policy, why they didn't stick to what they originally said they were going to start with, which is just kick all the criminals out.

because that seemed to have universal support. Excuse me. If you were here undocumented in America and you committed a crime, that's it, you're gone. Everyone would have cheered that. It's the fact that they've expanded it very quickly and they've let people sort of slip through the net where it clearly looks unfair

or there's a lack of due process. That's now become to dominate the narrative. Pierce, I think I'm going to say something and will probably surprise you. I don't think he's gone hard enough on immigration. I think he should do more. I think anyone who comes to this country illegally should not be here. As a naturalized American myself, I'm extremely pissed off

that millions of people have just stormed across the southern border, willy-nilly, completely desecrating our laws and our immigration system. How is that fair? And I think that's one of the reasons why Democrats lost because they don't realize how many Americans who came here as immigrants, they pissed off by coddling these illegal aliens. Well, what about Haraldos' point that already people are struggling? now because so many people are being deported and there's a terror of being deported.

And there's clearly a qualitative difference between somebody who's in the country illegally, who commits a crime and somebody who maybe came over 10 years ago, 12 years ago, has had kids in America, has got a job, is paying taxes. These are two different cases, aren't we? So we should triage, but they also broke our laws. What is the point of having laws that they're just broken? Okay, if we don't have a responsible system, you want to come to America, you've got to be able to contribute to the success of this country. Please let me do. One sentence. All right. One second. My family and I came here. I came to this amazing country. God bless your family.

He never took a hand out. I'm still talking. Forty-two percent of our agricultural workers are undocumented. And nobody disagrees with that statistic. 42 percent of the people who till our fields, who reap our crops, who feed us, 42 percent, are undocumented. They're not the tabloid one in a million who commits a heinous crime. My point is that we should triage. Yes, Pierce, that we should have, we should prioritize the criminals, but anyone who comes here illegally does not have a right to be in this country. Of course, but the problem with that is that there are apparently up to 80 million people

who are undocumented in the United States. Do you get to throw them all out? I mean, that seems to me a ridiculous. We should try out. We don't have the resources to throw them all out. But my personal views that you should be respectful. to the laws and regulations. I don't disagree with that, but I do think you can't throw 80 million people, particularly in a country, Chink, which is founded on immigrants.

Chink. Yeah. Yeah, so I'm also a naturalized citizen, and my family came here because we love this country. And if you saw America the way that I see it, I think you'd love it even more. So I get it that people are frustrated, that people are coming in illegally. But they didn't come here, the great majority of them didn't come here for anything but economic opportunity for their families. So, look, People want to close the border and Trump has done a good job of closing the border. Credit where credit is due. That is what people voted for.

But I think Joe Orogan is right. They did not, and I think Herando is right. They did not vote for ICE to go in the middle of the country, in the middle of our cities, and uproot people that have been here 10 years, 20 years, that are doing super hard work. We should have a reasonable, sane immigration policy where we have a pathway to citizenship. We should acknowledge that we need these workers and we should get them decent ways. wages and a decent policy, by the way, and close the border. Do it right.

Instead, what's happening now is we have undocumented immigration, mainly because of corporate power. They want to be able to pay these guys less. They want to be able to use their work and not give them the right credit for it. Or, by the way, use their work instead of Americans and not pay them the proper wages. So the real problem is corporate rule, and that's why we can't get to it. I would love to see you demonstrate the same sympathy to the victims of the wages. rapes and the murders committed by illegal aliens, by the millions of people that Biden let into this country. Can I address that real quick?

Unvetted. Yeah. Yeah. So, unfortunately, natural-born citizens are the most violent, most criminal group in the country compared to undocumented immigrants and naturalized citizens. So naturalized citizens like me and Lindy are four times safer. We commit only a quarter of the crime on average. Undocumented him. Hold on.

Let me finish. It's almost over. An undocumented, an undocumented immigrants commit half the crime of natural-born citizens. So does that mean we should kick out the natural-born citizens or natural-born citizens? Tell that to Lake and Riley, by the way, who's no longer alive. The number of criminals are, the number of criminals are small in each one of those categories. And demagoguing about criminality when on average, undocumented immigrants commit half the crime with the people that are born here is just, Stamagogy. The one thing I would like, it's not driving towards it. I want to refer to what

Schrokes-Negro said. You're an immigrant in this country. You are a guest. Lindy, I'm going to wrap it. I'm sorry. You should not be committing any crimes. Well, I agree with that. But what I would say is the one thing I would like, a part of all this, I would like someone like me, who's lived and worked in America and has a home there for 20 years now, I would like to

to be described as something else on my visa other than exceptional alien. I think there's something very unfriendly about the description of me as an, I mean, I may, you know, I like to think I'm exceptional. It's the word alien really pisses me off. You're my favorite exceptional.

Can we all agree that you could have more friendly terminology for people like me? Thank you. That's for sure. I'll tell you that as a yes. Unless you're from Mars. Thank you all very much. I really appreciate the panel. And to Rudy, who came and went like a ghost of the night, but it was great to have him.

Thank you all very much. Here's Morgan on Sensen. It's proudly independent. The only boss around here is me. If you enjoy our show, we ask for only one simple thing. Hit subscribe on YouTube and follow Piers Morgan Unsensored on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. And in return, we will continue our mission to inform, irritate and entertain. And we'll do it all for free.

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