Piers Morgan Uncensored - 'He's NOT Serious!' Harry Sisson Responds To Trump Meme | George Santos OUT of Jail!

Episode Date: October 21, 2025

“No Kings” is the message of the anti-Trump protest movement, who reject what they see as monarchical rule by an uninhibited leader. And the President chose to respond to the weekend’s protests by sharing an AI-generated video of himself flying a fighter jet loaded with feces, which he deposited, with surgical accuracy, on Harry Sisson. Trump’s critics did not see the funny side - but did Harry? He joins Piers Morgan to give his reaction and tells Uncensored whether he really has sent a cease and desist letter to the White House… Meanwhile, Trump is sizing up a second meeting with Putin while watching the Gaza ceasefire collapse after Israel carried out airstrikes just days into the truce. Also joining to discuss all the above is ‘Provoked’ author Scott Horton, Daily Wire’s Isabel Brown, senior editor at Human Events, Jack Posobiec and Kentucky senator and chair of the Homeland Security Committee, Rand Paul. Plus, George Santos has had his jail sentence commuted by Trump - and joins Piers to tell us what’s next for him and what life was like in prison. Piers Morgan Uncensored is proudly independent and supported by: Tax Network USA: Call 1-800-958-1000 or visit https://TNUSA.com/PIERS to speak with a strategist for FREE today Birch Gold: Visit https://birchgold.com/piers to get your free info kit on gold. Mando: Control Body Odor ANYWHERE with @shop.mando and get 20% off + free shipping with promo code PIERS at https://shopmando.com! #mandopod Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Did you laugh? No, I don't think the president behaving in this way is funny. I think we have to hold our leaders to a higher standard. This is the guy leading our country. He's not serious. And I don't actually think he cares about anybody but himself. Gary, have you taken a shower yet to get the president's, the president's mud and to go off of you?

I did take a shot. Have you crawled out of Donald Trump's colon yet? I know it's hard. It's dark in there. No Kings is the message. of the anti-Trump protest movement, who reject what they see as monarchical rule by an uninhibited leader. Well, normally at this point, I'd mount a rousing defense of the various charming advantages

of the British royal system. But the slew of ugly new revelations about Prince Andrew, many of them emanating from the US Congress, were investigating the Epstein scandal, have made this a very bad week to be a monarchist. And while protesters in the US are fulminating about a leader with too much power, most Brits are currently scratching their heads about why the actual king has no power to strip Andrew of his princely title or to kick him out of his 30-bedroom royal mansion. The truth is that President Trump has far more power than the British monarch.

All presidents do. It's what they choose to do with it that really counts. President Trump chose to respond to the weekend's protest by sharing an AI-generated video of himself flying a fighter jet loaded with effluent, which he deposited with surgical accuracy on a friend of his show, Harry's sister. Trump's critics did not see the funny side. I want you to imagine King Charles having an AI video of himself, flying around in an F-16,

dropping excrement on people. Or Kier Stormer doing that. What if Albanese did this as an example? I want you to imagine somebody other than Donald Trump on the world stage. So this is a complete mockery. of the institution of the presidency. President Trump's actions on the world stage

have in fact been winning plaudits rather than mockery, sizing up a second meeting with Russian President Vladimir Putin and is in no move for seeing the Gaza ceasefire collapse after Israel carried our airstrikes to stays into the truce. They made a deal with Hamas that, you know, they're going to be very good, they're going to behave, they're going to be nice, and if they're not, we're going to go and we're going to eradicate them if we have to. They'll be eradicated, and they know that.

If they keep doing it, then we're going to go in and straighten it out, and it'll happen very quickly and pretty violently, unfortunately. Well, it was the president's use of we that gets to the heart of another live-wire debate about America's place in the world. Many in his own MAGA movement signed up for America first, not America and Israel first. They're pretty comfortable with the president's power. They just don't want to see BB Netanyahu sitting on their throne.

Well, joining me to debate this is Harry Sisson. The aforementioned Democrat influencers seem being bombed by Effluent in the viral Trump. meme, Scott Horton, author of Provote, Isabel Brown, host of the Isabel Brown Show on the Daily Wire, and the senior editor at Human Events, Jack Persobit. Well, welcome to all of you. Well, Harry, you're the man of the moment, the man of the memes. Just be honest with me here. When you first saw that meme involving extrament being deposited on you, did you laugh? No, I don't think the president behaving in this way is funny. I think we have to hold our leaders to

higher standard. That's something that you typically see in my Twitter comments from like some Magabomber who spends their time making AI videos all day. It's not something you'd really hope to see from the president of the United States, but alas, we are here. This is the guy leading our country. He's not serious. And I don't actually think he cares about anybody but himself. And I think he's more interested in social media beef with a 23-year-old as the vice president is than he is in leading the country. I mean, you managed to say all that with a completely straight face. But your side have done endless. incredibly mocking, humiliating memes about Trump.

I mean, you'd accept that. Like what? Well, I mean, I could get literally a thousand if you gave me half on how to find them. I mean, it's not a secret. Can you give me a couple examples from like high-ranking limit? Well, it's not a secret that the left

to do means about Trump, right? Can you give me some examples from high-ranking Democrats that are similar to this? Well, okay, let me flip the question around. Are you saying there have never been any mocking memes of Trump by anybody on the left in America?

No, that's not what I'm saying at all. I'm asking for, like, high-level prominent Democrats who might be in a similar position for Trump. Okay, well, Gavin Newsom, Gavin Newsom has done a lot of memes on Trump. I mean, do you distance yourself from those? Has he done an AI video of dropping feces on the American people? Well, that's a question of Tase,

but he does mocking memes of him, yeah. Right, I mean, I think Tase is a big point here, and I think objectively, Gavin Newsom, like, mocking Trump on social media or posting like AI photos of himself or something like that is vastly different than Trump pooping on Americans, including myself and the American flag in that video. I think even you, Pierce, would agree

that those are two vastly different things, no? Well, there is a report, for example, that you have sent a cease and desist letter to the White House threatening legal action if they don't withdraw it. Is that true? No. I saw that on Twitter. I don't know where anybody got that from. I think there are genuinely just a lot of accounts

on that platform that makes stuff up. And I think that's just another case of that. But you heard it here first. I have not sent a cease and desicent to the White House. Okay, good. Isabel, you know, I've got to be honest. When I saw it, I thought, yeah, it's pretty tasteless. But it made me chuckle.

I don't know, you know, it's like it's a classic Trump stunt. Many people will think it's puerile and pathetic. Other people will laugh. The point that Anthony Scaramucci made that you wouldn't see these other, I mean, of course you're not going to see Kier Stama do it or Anthony Orbanese. or any of these guys, because they just are classic politicians who behave in a classic political manner.

The whole point of Trump is he's the complete sort of antithesis of a conventional politician. And I can imagine there are a lot of Americans, and I'm talking about millions, who would have found that just amusing, right? And didn't read too much into it, just thought it was Trump basically retaliating to what he would have seen as a ridiculous protest

by being Trump. Yeah, I think. amusing is a good word used their peers. And ultimately, Donald Trump's sense of humor is not a surprise. We've known this man for upwards of a decade in American politics now, and nobody understands meme culture better than

President Donald Trump. He's the architect of most of the best memes in history. But I don't think it's comparable to the memes, graphics, posters, calls for legitimate violence that we saw spread in city streets across America this last weekend from people of all ages

on the left wing of the American political system saying that anyone who supports Donald Trump, anyone who works for him, anyone who voted for him should be violently attacked, murdered, or assassinated because they are inherently Nazis, racists, or fascists. And that is the political rhetoric that I think we're having a very hard time reconciling with as we move forward in this country, particularly in the wake of Charlie Kirk's assassination. Harry, you asked for specific examples of memes that are raising the political temperature to incite violence against right wingers in this country. You yourself posted in June of last summer showing Charlie Kirk with a Ku Klux Klan hood

photoshopped over him, calling him a racist and saying Charlie just put the hood on already. That video was later archived. Wait, that's not true. Oh, please tell us. What I posted, I happily, I'd love to. What I posted was actually not of last summer. I don't even know where you got that from. It was from the New York City primary where Charlie Kirk likened Zoran Mamdani to the 9-11

terrorists. And I thought that there was a very racist and obviously unfair comparison. And so I told Charlie Kirk to put the hood on because there's nothing similar between Zohran Mamdani, a politician whom he might have disagreements with and 9-11 terrorists. So I don't know where you got your information from, but that's just objectively false. Oh, according to a very basic Google search, Harry, in June of last year, you posted a video with Charlie Kirk is out here preaching unity while pushing every racist trope in the book. Just put the clan hood on Charlie.

It would be more honest. You obviously were delivering that in a sarcastic tone, but you showed an edit overlaying a Ku Klux Klanhood on Charlie's head for dramatic effect. That video was later archived or removed after it had almost two million views on TikTok alone. And I think it's just an incredibly clear example. Just like thousands of videos, photos. protest posters, t-shirts that we've seen peers across the country at these so-called save democracy protests, save America protests, where you're watching people wear t-shirts saying

make assassinations great again with Donald Trump's head exploding, public school teachers in Chicago simulating shooting themselves in the neck to celebrate the fact that Charlie was violently assassinated on an American college campus. You're watching people say, if I had the chance to kill Stephen Miller because he is a fascist and a Nazi, of course I would take that. that opportunity, people calling for the execution of Donald Trump, anyone who votes for him, anyone who supports him or works for him. This is a very dangerous time to be openly conservative in America. And the amazing thing about all of that is those people represent more than half the country. So I think we're coming to a time in America right now where we have to reconcile

that we need to be open and honest about our beliefs to the point that it is impossible to reconcile with people and to coexist with them when they legitimately want you dead after spending years calling you a fascist, a Nazi, a white supremacist, literally Adolf Hitler, or anything else we often see influencers like Harry post on social media.

All right, Harry, respond to that. Okay, so I just... The tax extension deadline has passed, but for millions of Americans, trouble is just beginning. If you've missed the October deadline or owe back taxes, the IRS is now ramping up in forcement. Every day you could wait, could make it worse. The IRS can

charge penalties up to 25% of your tax bill simply for not filing, and that's on top of what you already owe. Well, Tax Network USA can help. If you're self-employed, a business owner, or if your books are a mess, Tax Network USA resolves the chaos and gets you back on track. The consultation is free. In one short call and a few questions, their experts will determine how much you can save. Call 1-800-958-1000 or visit tnusa.com slash peers. Let Tax Network Work USA help you before the IRS makes the next move. Yeah, I have a quick response. So first of all, the video you're still talking about is not true.

I also haven't archived or deleted any videos about Charlie Kirk. That was a complete factual error on the behalf of a lot of Republicans following Charlie Kirk's murder. Haven't deleted any of it. You can go look it up. Wait, wait, wait. Isabel, respectfully, I let you finish. Respectfully, I let you finish.

So I haven't deleted any of those videos. You can go see all the videos, all the tweets I've posted in response to Charlie Kirk. Now, you keep talking about political violence. And we have study after study that shows that more political violence comes from the right wing, especially in modern American history than it does from the left wing. So even if you just want to ignore the data, question for you, when Donald Trump mocked Paul Pelosi getting beaten over the head with a hammer, was that okay? When Donald Trump Jr. did the same, was that okay?

When Mike Lee, Senator from Utah, mocked the murder of Melissa Hortman and her husband in her home on Twitter, was that okay? when Donald Trump didn't lower the flag for Melissa Hortman after he did, of course, for Charlie Kirk, was that okay? When he was asked about Melissa Hortman, he said, who is that? He didn't know who Melissa Hortman was, didn't even attend her funeral like President Biden did, former President Biden. So these are examples of political violence. The largest example of modern political violence comes from your party, Donald Trump on January 6th, and then he proceeded to pardon all of those people. So you keep talking about political violence, but every major Democrat in office has condemned any

violence. I would condemn anybody at these protests saying they want to take the lives of any conservatives for their beliefs. But your guy pardoned people who beat police officers over the head. He mocked the meeting of Danci Pelosi's husband. Harry, just to go ahead, hang on. Let me jump in. Harry, just to be clear, though, you know, I'm looking at photographs here on my phone from the protests, right? Charlie Kirk had it coming. Make assassinations great again. Right. There was this woman who's never identified as a teacher, who was literally on video mocking the assassination,

mimicking what happened. Now, would you unreservedly condemn that? I think I've made this abundantly clear by now, peers, that any mocking of Charlie Kirk's murder, any call for violence against anybody for their political beliefs, is unequivocally wrong. But to suggest that it's only people on the left

who do this is categorically false. And I know it because after Charlie Kirk was murdered, I got death threats that I reported to the FBI. I've been a subject of these targets. As I'm sure the fellow right wingers on this panel have been the subject of death threats from people that disagree with them. So let's be nuanced about this.

Let's not be disingenuous and surface level. Let's have an informed political discussion, which would all lead us to the conclusion that there are crazy people on both sides who will make threats to people on both sides and coming on here and pretending that it's one or the other inciting examples of people

who are not elected to the Democratic Party when there are people in the Republican Party who walk in it. is disingenuous. Well, from my point of view, there is no doubt that there are people on both sides that do this kind of thing. The irony here and the shameless hypocrisy is that you have these widespread protests across America with a lot of people engaging in this, and a lot of people were protesting about

how disgusting Donald Trump is whilst being disgusting themselves. And so my point is, if you're going to protest about this guy saying he wants to be king, isn't he terrible, blah, blah, blah. You probably shouldn't be glorifying the assassination of a 31-year-old dad. Let me bring in Jack Pesobic here. But just for the record, I agree. Okay, good. Jack Pesobic, I mean, let's go to the meme, first of all.

Did you have a big problem with it? Should Trump avoid doing things like that? He's not a conventional politician. He does shocking things to wind everybody up. I mean, what do you feel about it? I mean, a meme is a meme. I don't think a meme hurts anybody. It's like, Harry, show us on the doll where the meme hurt you.

Donald Trump is going to post memes. He's always been posting memes. He's not going to stop posting memes. But at the same time, you look what he actually does in terms of his presidency. And, you know, I actually like what he had to say in response to the no king's protest where he said, look, I'm not a king. I'm just a guy who works really hard and works his butt off to try to make the country better, make the world better. And I think he does do that. I think he legitimately does when he goes on these trips to Israel to work on the peace deal, when he goes on these trips to Anchorage, Alaska.

Now he's talking about going to Budapest to talk about ending the Ukraine war when he's working on these things. And certainly people can disagree with specific policies here and there, and I'm sure many do. But at the same time, when he talk about his intentions, I think that's where his intentions are. Okay. I'm going to come to you in a moment, Scott. Thank you for your patience. It's going to bring in Rand Paul, who's joined us. Senator has earned the president's ayer this week for criticizing both the budget and the U.S. strikes on Venezuelan boats. And joins me again. Welcome back to uncensored, Senator Paul.

Thank you very much for taking my time. First of all, let's just go through the two things which have wound up Donald Trump. Your objection, first of all, to the budget. Well, the way I look at it, you know, there are two choices that have been put forward. A Republican choice, which would lead to about a $2 trillion deficit next year. A Democrat choice, which would lead to about $3 trillion in deficit. And people say, well, take one or the other, and I say, well, I don't really like either one of them. It's sort of like the deficit of $37 trillion,

whose fault is it Republicans or Democrats? And my answer is yes. You know, it's really both parties. So I put forward a third possibility, and that would be that we balance the budget over five years by gradually having across-the-board cuts each year for five years. And I think that's the way we should go. And I just can't find myself voting for spending levels

that don't decrease the deficit, but actually increase the deficit next year. And then moving to the issue of these, Venezuelan boats being attacked, the administration's position is clear that they think they're dangerous terrorists representing a direct threat to the lives of Americans, and that's why they're doing it.

What is your objection to the way they're executing this strategy? We know, we have dangerous people in a lot of American cities, but we just don't go in and shoot them. I mean, we have trials, they get legal representation. And even on the high seas, it's been that way for generations. If you go off the coast of Miami, the Coast Guard will be stopping boats today,

and about 25% of the boats that they stop, that they're suspicious of drugs, there won't be any drugs on board. So 25% of the time the suspicion is wrong, and that's why we don't shoot and just blow up boats off of Miami, but neither should we be blowing them up off the coast of Venezuela. Number one, there is no fentanyl made in Venezuela, not just a little bit, there's none being made in Venezuela. These are outboard boats that in order for them to get to Miami would have to stop and refuel 20 times.

They're in all likely going to Trinidad and Tobago, which is an island right off of the coast of Venezuela. So there's a lot of reasons to be worried about this. But number one is the broader principle of when can you kill people indiscriminately when you were at war. That's why when we declare war, it's supposed to be done by Congress. It's supposed to be thoughtful. It's supposed to be debated. And we're not supposed to do it willy-nilly. And then when you have war, you just kill people in the war zone.

And even then there are rules of engagement. But interdicting drugs has always been a criminal activity and a criminal anti-crime sort of activity where we don't just summarily execute people. We actually present evidence and convict them. Donald Trump, as I said, responded with some ire to your positions here. He said, whatever happened to Senator Rand Paul, he was never great, but he went really bad in capital.

I got him elected twice in the Great Commonwealth of Kentucky, but he just never votes positively for the Republican Party. He's a nasty little guy, much like Congressman Thomas Massey, aka Rand Paul Jr., also of Kentucky, which I won three times in massive landslides, a sick wacko who refuses to vote for our great Republican Party, MAGA or America first. It's really weird. Your response?

You know, I don't take it too seriously. I've known President Trump for over a decade. I played golf with him a couple dozen times. I actually enjoy his company and his personality most of the time. But it doesn't mean that I'm going to be a rubber stamp or agree with everything. The idea that it is weird to believe in a balanced budget or weird to believe that we should only vote

for spending proposals that put forward less debt than the year before, I think the American people would disagree with that assessment. I think the people that I represent and the people who voted for me voted more because I'm very honest and forthright that we have a spending problem, we have a debt problem, and that really both parties are guilty of it. I would say, if anything, my support right now in Kentucky is higher than it's ever been, and really from people all across the spectrum, Republicans,

Democrats, and independents coming up to me and say, we respect your ability to stand firm for principles as opposed to just bending the knee or kissing the ring. Gold is up by more than 40 percent in value since the beginning of this year. And today, sponsor Birch Gold is marking Veterans Day with a tantalizing offer, buy gold, get free silver. But every $5,000 purchase from Birch Gold this month, they will send you a free silver round which commemorates the Gadsden and American flags. Birch Gold helps you to own gold by converting an existing IRA or a 401k into a tax-sheltered IRA in physical gold.

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Yeah. Now, I think that his, he misperceives what's going on as far as where things are. I think there are people that are concerned about indiscriminately just blowing people out because where does that lead? It leads to chaos. You know, you really, it would be a world with no norms and no rules. And I think that some people get in some don't. I mean, some will offer up, well, gosh, the next thing you'll know, Rand Paul will be

wanting people to have trials or, you know, for murderers to get lawyers. And it's like, there are very simplistic people who don't think this through. But yeah, the worst in society get legal representation. Why? Because sometimes we're wrong. Even when we've been very certain with all of the rules of trial and due process, you know, the DNA analysis has found that many people have been wrongly accused of rape and murder have been exonerated after decades in prison. the Project Innocence has found. And so I think that blowing people up indiscriminately in boats, look, there are a lot of reasons why there could be even drugs on the boat,

but the boat could be some poor fisherman who took a couple hundred extra bucks to transport these people, maybe assuming they might be drug dealers, but this is a person who did it out of desperation. Or it could be they've kidnapped one of his relatives, and he's doing it because they may harm one of his relatives. There's a lot of reasons why fairly innocent people could be on those boats. But the bottom line is even if they are drug dealers, we don't live or we don't want to live in a world of summary execution with no process. And finally, your view of the Trump meme, which has caused so much response to the King's protest where he basically dropped poop on the American people, including Harry's system.

What was your reaction to that? I guess I think of it on a different plane. I think of the debate our founding fathers had over the separation of powers of what Moniskew said when he said that the executive powers, when united with the legislative powers, you'll have no liberty if those powers are put together. I have been a stickler for fighting against emergency powers for any president, whether it's a Democrat or a Republican president. So I see the debate over separation of powers as an important one and one that needs to be on a higher plane, maybe. than cartoons and memes. And just one last finally, but this is all with the context, of course, that the British royal family are massively in the news right now for very bad reasons,

which is the continued scrutiny of Prince Andrew and the Epstein files. A lot of the damage is being caused by leaks from Congress who are investigating this. What is your view of the Epstein scandal and what should happen next? I voted to release the Epstein.

files. We had a vote about two weeks ago in the Senate, and I was one of only a handful of Republicans who did so. But I've always thought that in order to have trust in government and trust in the justice that is meted out by government, that we have to believe that justice is impartial, that it's colorblind to your ethnicity, but also blind to how wealthy you are. And if the notion becomes prominent and accepted that wealthy people are treated differently than the ordinary people that justice is somehow skirted if you're wealthy. I think that's a really bad signal to send to the public. And so I think if we want the public to believe that justice is the same for everyone, we have to make sure that all the information comes forward and that rich people

weren't given a bypass or a pass on this scandal. So I haven't been really involved with all the details of it. I don't know what's going to be turned up. from it, but I think it should be transparent so people can regain trust in the justice system. Yeah, completely agree. Senator Paul, thank you so much for coming back on our sensitive. I appreciate it. Thank you. Let's go to Scott Horton.

Scott, you've been incredibly patient. Thank you very much. Just what Rand Paul there was saying about, I guess it all plays to the same thing, that people think in America, Donald Trump is behaving like some kind of out-of-control monarch, and you could look at what's happening with the attacks on the Venezuelan. boats as part of that, sort of trying to just circumnavigate the normal rules of engagement with these things. You know, you can position all of this stuff there. What is your view of the no-kings protests and the way that Trump is currently conducting his presidency, where there is

validity to the idea that he thinks he's just a king and not an elected official? Well, the protests are just a joke. I mean, that's just a liberal Democrat voters whining. But I absolutely stand with Senator Paul and with his father, Dr. Ron. Paul on severe and strict constitutionalism. And that means an end to the world empire. You know, I don't know if you saw this, Pierce, but there's actually an article in Foreign Affairs, which is the Journal of the Council on Foreign Relations, the headquarters of the American Empire since 1921.

They have an article this week about how, geez, how did the presidency get so imperial? Well, you need an imperial presidency to rule a world empire, don't you now? If you're going to be the dominant political and military force in all of Europe, Asia, the Middle East and Africa as well as Latin America, then yeah, you're going to need a pretty powerful president and a national security council that can declare any emergency and act with haste to do whatever they want. You listen, Dr. Paul talk about the strikes going on there off the coast of Venezuela where there's no, as Al Gore would say, there's no controlling legal authority. No one even pretends that anyone can make them stop. The President of

United States, hell, he could launch H-bombs at any city he chooses. There's no one to tell him no. And that's because America is a world empire instead of a limited constitutional republic. And that's why, you know, I just, I regret. I don't mean to like diminish anyone. I just think it's sad how partisan politics makes everyone so stupid. We need to abolish the Federal Reserve System and institute a 100% gold standard. We need to bring all our troops home from the world. We need to repeal about 99% of the laws passed since 1900 to save this country. We got people crying about, you know, ex-cartoons.

Yeah, I mean, I'll take your point. I mean, the irony, I think, of this whole No Kings thing is that the U.S. president legally has far more power, actually, than the royal family have in the UK. They have no real power at all. They're just figureheads. So there's a kind of irony there is that no king. But actually, if you had a king like ours, then the power of the presidency would be massively reduced, not increased. And there is a kind of weird, I think, assumption going on here that our king or queen as it was before, of course, the king's mother, that they somehow have great powers. They don't.

Isabel, I want to just play a clip. This is Robert De Niro talking about Stephen Miller, one of Donald Trump's senior aides. He will not, he, we see it, we see it, we see it. He will not want to leave. He set it up with his, I guess he's the Gables of the cabinet, Stephen Miller. He's a Nazi. Yes, he is, and he's Jewish, and he should be ashamed of himself. I'm sorry, I just find that unbelievably offensive.

To call a Jewish man a Nazi, to call him gerbils after the propaganda chief of the Nazis. And they keep doing this, the Democratic. and Democrats supporters. And, you know, De Niro's been doing this about Trump for decades, it seems. You know, he's almost hysterical about him. But to call a Jewish member of the Trump administration a Nazi like that, just beyond the pale, isn't it, Isabel?

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but it's the same behavior we've witnessed for upwards of a decade now, really since Donald Trump first announced his run for presidency in 2015. You've watched the legacy media, our academic institutions, the entertainment industry, all of the loudest voices in society called Donald Trump or anyone who supports him or works for him. A fascist, a Nazi, literally Adolf Hitler, Hitler Youth. I was called regularly on my college campus. And I know Jack Posobic, myself, and many people who have been fighting on the front lines of this conservative movement have been warning for upwards of a decade.

This is the natural result when you label people with this rising political temperature. A fascist, a Nazi, transphobic, white supremacist, the literal KKK and Photoshop hoods over the, them, people eventually resort to violence because they'll believe this constant narrative. That is the key, yeah, I mean, that's the key thing. I mean, we bring in Jack here. I mean, we saw with Charlie Kirk that some of the bullet casings the shooter used had anti-fascism slogans on there. So we don't know the full motivation yet.

That is still unraveling. But clearly, it looks like this person was attacking somebody he thought was a fascist. And that's because a lot of people on left called Charlie Kirk a fascist and the Nazi, as they do with Trump, as they do with Stephen Miller. And to me, if you're a deranged young, impressionable mind, if you do buy into that notion that they're genuine fascists and Nazis, you would see it as your civic duty to kill these people. Why wouldn't you? And that's the danger.

Yeah, it appears that's exactly right, and that's what we're facing. And by the way, hats off to Oxford, because I understand the Oxford Union has just voted to take out the, I think it was the incoming president. of the Oxford Union. He'd been the president-elect, I guess he hadn't taken it yet. But here's a guy who had debated Charlie had invited him to campus just a couple of weeks before Charlie's murder and then is celebrating, blatantly celebrating the murder of a man that he had just shared a stage with. And certainly they had disagreed on that stage, and that's fine. And that's what free speech and

free dialogue and free debate, especially on campus, which is the modern public square, is all about. Yet here he is now celebrating this, laughing about Charlie's murder, and the issue appears is that these violent Marxist ideologies are commonplace and they're becoming more and more increasingly common. And I even have a bone to pick with some conservatives who say, oh, well, it's just video games or it's, you know, it's just social media. It's and no, no, no, no, no. Go back in time and you can find throughout history, whether it's the French Revolution, which, by the way, one of the watchwords when they were leading people up to the game. guillotine in Revolutionary France and the reign of terror in Robespierre was no kings, no kings, no masters. That's where the phrase no kings comes from right before they chop the king's head off. So that's where that phrase comes from.

And everyone needs to understand the violent tendencies and the violent origin of all of these symbols that they're still tapping back into, Bella Chow, which was written on one of the bullet casings. I believe one's not one of the ones that was fired. Destiny was very emphatic that I say that the last time I was here. So yes, it was not the specific bullet casing that shot and killed Charlie Kirk. It was the one next to that bullet casing. But Bella Chow is, again, an anti-fascist, communist song from Italy from World War II and has now essentially become the national or international anthem of Antifa.

This violent ideology is spreading throughout college campuses. We see teacher after teacher where they're buying into this. So many times when we look up one of these people that find out. at one of these protests, they end up being a teacher. And unfortunately, this is all over the place. And I went to the White House and I told the President of the United States to his face that the next person who could be assassinated is very likely sitting around this table right now. After we saw Luigi Maggione, after we saw Thomas Matthew Crooks, Ryan Ralph,

and now this individual, Tyler Robinson, there in Utah Valley. Right. Harry Sisson, you posted it last year in the run through the election. Donald Trump called for a United Reich in his new campaign ad. America, are you listening? Trump is telling us what he wants and he's referencing Nazi Germany while doing it. It's unacceptable.

He must lose in 2024. And again, you know, I just played De Niro calling Stephen Miller and Nazi stuff. This constant refrain from people on the left of invoking the Nazis, Adolf Hitler, all this stuff. I just don't know why you guys do this. Obviously, Trump is not Adolf Hitler. Apart from anything else, he's trying to find

peace, right? Not actually killing everyone that gets in his way. You know, and he has a Jewish son-in-law, right? So these things are just, they're not just wrong. They're unbelievably offensive in a way that actually the woke left would normally lead the charge of wanting to cancel people that did this, that said these kind of things. But apparently it's fine on the left. I mean, what is your reaction first to De Niro? And then maybe talk about your post and whether you regret using the Nazi language? Well, I'm going to work backwards. I'm going to start with mine and then talk about what De Niro said. So first and foremost, in that ad that Donald Trump posted, the words Unified Reich

were on a newspaper that appeared in the ad that was like praising Donald Trump. So if the Trump campaign is putting that in an ad, I think that deserves to be called out. Number two, I don't think anybody in this debate can name me a high-ranking elected Democrat who is called Donald Trump Hitler. I don't think anybody can. I don't think anybody can. Number three, one of the only high-ranking politicians in American politics who called Donald Trump Hitler is J.D. Vance, calling him America's Hitler. Now, working backwards to what Robert De Niro said, I think what Robert De Niro said is a little distasteful. I think he certainly could have worded a better, taken out some charge language. But I just see these recent stories about Republicans, whether it be the youth leader group chat or Paul Ingracia, who is still Donald Trump's nominee to lead the Office of Special Counsel, pledging affinity for Hitler, Peter Gunta.

who is the chair of the young Republicans party in New York said, I love Hitler in a chat. Other people were musing about refitting gas chambers, so they, quote, fit the Hitler aesthetic. Paul and Grascia, the special counsel nominee, just got caught in other leaked texts saying that he has a Nazi streak. So when these high-ranking Republicans, who are working in the party right now,

are pledging affinity to Hitler, I think that deserves to be called out. Not that every Republican should be painted is that. I certainly don't do that. agree with that. But can the conservatives on this panel condemn, number one, Donald Trump's nominee, and number two, can they condemn the youth Republican group chat? And then number three, if they write it off as a joke, then why were they so against people joking about Charlie Kirk? I never joked about Charlie Kirk, but they pick and choose when humor can be applied in politics.

And when you're pledging affinity to Hitler, that's a joke, according to many. I've seen from their piece. But when you're criticizing a conservative argument. I'd be having to answer to the question about whether or not a high-ranking Democrat has used this rhetoric. Who is Kamala Harris? I know I want you to answer all the questions. I want you to answer all the questions for you. Who is Kamala Harris? Wait, wait, wait, wait, answer all the questions I just gave you.

And can you name me when Colin Harris said that Donald Trump is Hilton? Who was when did Kamala Harris? Great, great, great, great, great. When did Kamala Harris last year a high-ranking Democrat when she was the party number? When did Kamala Harris call Donald Trump Hitler? October of 2004, Kamala Harris said on the campaign, Donald Trump vowed to be a dictator on day one. His former chief of staff said he wanted general.

like Hitler's. Donald Trump openly admires dictators, including Adolf Hitler. Last October, that was set on the campaign trail from the Democrat. Romula Harris said this during the campaign, during the closing days of the campaign. It was the final campaign pitch. Is that high enough ranking for you? You guys, wait, wait, wait, wait, supported her for president. Exactly, because there have been reports of Donald Trump. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, just relax. Who was campaigning by calling Trump Hitler. Jack. And she's not so disingenuous when you bring this stuff up.

You can even acknowledge the fact that your own candidate was all the campaign. She's got a video about it. It's on her face or it's on her specific. Let me offer one. Let me offer one here, which is Hillary Clinton. Hillary Clinton literally compared Trump's rally in Ohio last week to Nazi leader Adolf Hitler's speeches. Speaking of the Texas should be in festival, she made reference to Hitler speeches. We saw people raise their right arms in the air in the Nazi salute.

I remember as a young student, you know, trying to figure out how people basically got bought in by Hitler. She said, how do that happen? I'd watch newsreels and see this guy standing there ranting and raving and so on. It happens all the time. And, Harry, Harry, I would say JD Vance was totally wrong to say it about Trump as well.

I think the young conservatives who've been exposed by this political expose were totally wrong to. Can they say that? Some grotesque stuff in there. I have no problem saying that, Harry. But there are sitting members of Congress. Like Jasmine Crockett, who literally

just weeks ago called Donald Trump or want to be here. I mean, it's crazy. Yeah, can you say that? Jack, can you say that? Can you condemn the Young Republicans group chat where they pledged affinity for Hitler? I don't really care about some group chat right now while you guys keep shooting up all of my friends. Oh, no, no, no, Jack, you can

condemn votes. You can be. But Jack, I do think for consistency, actually, you should care. You know, JD Vance tried to downplay what the young Republicans were saying in these racist, sexist messages. one guy said that rape was epic. I don't think J.D. Vance said anything wrong.

One said rape was epic. Another said, I love Hitler. He tried to say they're all very young, but actually some of them were nearly his age. The reality is that kids do stupid things to tell edgy, offensive jokes. Well, fine, but they are still part of the conservative movement. On top of rooftops outside of the Mill King's rally,

shooting at Democrats. But that's terrible, too. You're being so slimy. You're being so slimy. Which they don't happen. So I'm sorry. Jack, you can condemn... Wait, wait.

Jack, wait. You keep shooting at my friends, then I'm not really concerned about some group... You can condemn both. I don't hire those guys. You can condemn both. Jack, you can condemn both. I think you can easily condemn all...

I think you can actually... Well, hang on. No, you way, Harry. If you're going to be intellectually honest, actually, it should be easy to condemn all of these things. All the invoking of the Nazis and Hitler should be condemned. It's never appropriate because Hitler and the Nazis were a gazillion times worse than anything we're saying here. I think the messaging between these young Republicans was appalling and should be condemned.

I think that J.D. Vance trying to defend it and calling Trump Hitler before, that should be easily condemned. Obviously should be condemned. The killing of Charlie Cook should be absolutely condemned by anyone, right? All of these things, if you're going to be intellectually honest, should be condemned. I want to just change gears now. I want to bring Scott back in. Let's talk about Israel. I feel like we should hold them to account, peers. I mean, these are... Well, everyone should be held to account, but everyone should be... But you're talking about...

You're talking about political violence. It would be much better for the political discourse in America. You're letting him get away. I'm not going to get away. Yes, you are. And let me just explain why briefly before you bring in the other guests. Jack is in a corner right now, right? He continues to go with this line of, you know, I'm very upset about Charlie Kirk,

which is understandable as he should be. It's not a line, Harry. You guys shot and killed Charlie Kirk. It is a line. You guys did that, Harry. You guys was not the Democratic Party. But second of all, Jack, you can condemn both. You're talking about, oh, there's a meme.

I'm so excited about the isolated incidents of these young Republicans praising Hitler. Can you condemn that, Jack? Jack, can you condemn people who pledge allegiance to Hitler? Show me on the deal with the meme hurt you. But that's okay. Let me look. Don't talk over each other.

Jack, I don't think it is difficult for you to just say that what those young Republicans were saying in these messages that was exposed was wrong and should be condemned. Why is that difficult? No, I don't think it's difficult at all. But what I do think is very obvious here that that was timed by Politico, by the way, which refused to, Harry, I let me talk. He won't do it.

But if they were young people on the left who were exposed to same stuff, you would condemn it. You would come out the same day as Charlie Kirk's presidential nomination. And that's the point. And that's exactly right, peers. He condemns people on the left who joke about other things he doesn't like. But when it comes to pledging allegiance to Hitler, he won't condemn it. Jack, let me ask you a simple question. Yeah, but they can both be wrong, Jack.

And I do think if it was young people on the left, who were doing these messages, you would condemn it. The bombs are going in one direction. Let me ask you a simple question. Before we run out of time, all right, guys, it's just not true. All right, I want to move on. He won't do it.

He won't, everybody, all the Republicans talk about political violence and extreme rhetoric on the left. He will not condemn people who pledged allegiance to Hitler. In the wake of Charlie's murder. Time out, please. You know what I did? Time out, please. That's what I've posted videos.

Time out. I'm bringing your scot in. I don't want to mute your mics. Please, please. for Scott, who's not had as much chance to talk as you guys, which is a shame. I hope he condemns it. Scott, before we run out of time, I do want to talk about Israel. The president has slightly reigned back on his use of the word we,

when it comes to any retribution against Hamas if they do not disarm. What do you think is going on here now? Obviously, none of this was ever going to be easy. Trump deserves enormous credit for getting the hostages released. I think everyone should agree to that. But do you think this ceasefire can hold? And if the critical part of that equation is that Hamas disarm, are you confident that they will do that?

Well, no. Look, I think the entire deal hinges on Donald Trump's very large promises to Hamas that he will restrain Israel and prevent them from going back to war. And Hamas climbed down on full withdrawal from the strip and a couple of other things. based on Trump's promise. So they made a huge gamble there, and it's either going to pay off or they're going to suffer.

There are, of course, with people in Netanyahu's cabinet already, saying, well, now we got the hostages back. Let's finish the job and that kind of thing. And it's only Donald Trump that can restrain Benjamin Netanyahu. And I certainly hope that he will. I think that he means to.

I believe that he's sincere. He's talked such a big game about this. Yeah. I do think that he means it in this case. So we'll see how it goes. Now, of course, Hamas is not truly a state in any way. They do not have a true monopoly on force there. And some coup from the popular front or the Palestinian Islamic jihad

or even one of their own guys could fire off a rocket. So the question is, or just shoot off a rifle or any kind of thing, set off a landmine. So then the question is, is America going to give Israel permission to take any pretext any small thing in order to completely restart the war or not. As far as the total disarmament of Hamas and what's supposed to come next as the next stage of this stages of this thing, I don't think anyone's really thought that through very well.

Hamas, I mean, look at what's happened after two years of this. They haven't gone anywhere. They're right there. All those people that were killed were essentially killed for nothing. And, you know, how to get them to disarm? I mean, I'm not in favor of any American intervention here at all. We should just absolutely stop in every way. But all other things being equal, I guess would make sense to let the Egyptians or some of the Gulf states try to set up a thing to reconstruct the place. But of course, the Israelis don't want to let anyone rebuild Gaza for

the Palestinians. They're still determined to kick them out of there. So this is absolutely, you know, the unstoppable force in Netanyahu versus the hopefully immovable object in Donald Trump. but from the Israeli point of view, I don't think they're done taking that territory whatsoever. And let me say one more thing here in reference to y'all's conversation about national socialism. The most dangerous Nazi on the face of the earth right now is a man named Andrew Beletsky. And he was just promoted to brigadier general and runs what's now called the Third Army Corps of the Ukrainian Army. It was the third separate infantry division who was founded as the Azov Battalion. And this guy, Boleski, is formerly of the patriot of Ukraine gang and is an avowed Hitlerian national socialist.

And whenever you see coverage of the Ukrainian Nazis, you'll most often see this quote of him, talking about leading the white race against the Semite-led Untermension, which means the subhumans. You can find that whole speech. I've reprinted it on the blog at anti-war.com. It's called racial, social nationalism. And it is absolute straight-up Hitlerian insanity. And this guy is in the top running, top two or three most powerful men in the running to succeed Zelensky as president of Ukraine. And he's made his ambitions extremely clear. So you want to talk about national socialism?

How about America's sock puppets in Kiev right now? And there aren't forces. Jack wouldn't condemn that. I don't think Jack would condemn that. I don't think because he can't condemn two things at once. He's focused entirely on one top. He can't condemn that. So you can't talk to Jack about it.

But Isabel and I, we can discuss that with you as well. Jack is, you know, he's in his own world. Well, Gary, have you taken a shower yet to get the president's, the president's mud and goo off of you? I don't have you crawled out of Donald Trump's colon yet. I did take a shot. Have you crawled out of Donald Trump's colon yet? I know it's hard. It's dark in there with everything you do to suck up to him on a daily basis.

See, again, here's like this is what they do. It's just, it's just constant crudity. Oh, oh, oh, yeah. He's so upset when you give it to me, when you give it to me, I can't give it back. Come on, man. Here is. You give it to me, I can't give it back to you. That's all the president shouldn't act like that.

To be fair, Jack, you did throw the first unclean slur. Yeah, exactly, Pierce. He threw the first punch and he gets mad when I give it back to me. He cries victim. It's crazy. He goes right for it. Okay. Let me give the final word.

Let me give the final word to Isabel. You know, I think ultimately we're missing a larger point of this entire conversation, which is that the irony of all of this is we're watching the president who has worked tirelessly to instill peace in the Middle East and around the world. consistently be called the president who surely was going to start World War III by the same people who are leading so-called no king's protests in every major city across America who have been in office longer than twice the time we have been alive look at people like Nancy Pelosi who were first elected into office into the United States House of Representatives 38 years ago 10 years before I was

even born these people have made hundreds of millions of dollars off of their career in public service supposedly serving the American people, but really the modern version of a king. So you're watching this... Cryptocurrency. Okay. One thing I would say, Isabel, is that... Like I say, the British king does not have the power, for example,

to pardon people who've been put in prison for crimes, right? So I want to end by asking you all one question, same question. I want a one-word answer. And the question is, should President Trump have pardoned George Santos? Harry? No Scott Yes he should

Yeah yeah You're only like one word I'm sorry Okay go ahead Is it's a yes Yes Isabel He has the constitutional power to do so Yes one word

Yes Okay Jack Yes but also he didn't pardon him He commuted him which is a different thing It is a different thing It's a different thing He didn't pardon him. He commuted a sentence, which was an excessive sentence,

and it was right for commutation. The pro-crime Republican Party, he's still legally. It was a one-word answer, everybody. And the reason is, I'm about to be. Well, hang on the reason is, and you might be ahead of me here, I'm about to interview George Santos, who's just heard what you all said. So thank you.

Thank you all very much indeed. He got three yeses. I'm sure he'd be happy with that. Thank you all very much. I appreciate it. Well, one man, like I can say, he might be thankful to President Trump as king-like powers, In fact, exceeding King Light Powers is the former New York Congressman George Santos,

so it is 87-month prison centers commuted this weekend. And he joins me now. Well, George, welcome back. Beers, good to be with you. It's a shame that you weren't my first interview this time. You usually have the first. Well, I thought I was going to get the first. So, you know, you cheated on me.

I'm sorry. I'm sorry I cheated on you, Pierce. You're still one of the best men. You're still one of the best-looking men on British TV. How about that? Well, that bar is quite low, as you know. George, on a personal level, I was pleased for you. On a sort of more public level, obviously, a lot of contentious views about what President Trump did here.

I was fascinated that you found out yourself by watching television in prison. You just suddenly saw that your sentence was being commuted. Just on that point, that moment, what did that feel like? I'm still processing it, peers. I'm pretty sure you've been watching. I've been doing the circuit. And I haven't really had a proper night's sleep. I'm still having a hard time sleeping and adapting.

But I'm still in a state of shock. I still, it's like, I don't know, it's hard to explain. I mean, I had just gotten out of being 41 days in complete isolation with no real human interaction. So it's, I'm still, I'm still trying to get my lining and understand, you know, this is real. is happening. President Trump extended clemency and mercy towards me. But it's good to just point this out. I really wish that Harry Sassan was as outrageous as he is when President Biden pardon Hunter Biden on a complete slate of crimes committed and crimes that God only knows what else he committed. But Harry is really good at being partisan. I wish him well. But look,

peers, I learned a whole deal. It was not. an easy process. It was very punitive. It was not reformatory or met for rehabilitation. It was a targeted torture of nearly half the time I was in prison. I was in solitary confinement for an extended period of time. Why was that, George, for those who don't know, why were you kept in solitary for so long? There was an initial old death threat that was recycled by Project Veritas and it was taken serious, even though it had already been debunk years before by Capitol Police. So then the FBI got involved. They actually did their process quite fast, but in 21 days, they were able to conclude it was old, fake, not credible,

and that no one was actually going to break into prison to kill me. But the warden, who I had been critical of on my column for the South Shore Press, since my inception in prison because of the conditions, unsanitary, inhumane conditions that they kept us from feeding us expired food to having black mold all over the ceiling. This warden saw an opportunity to try to silence me. This woman didn't allow commissary to sell me stamps. She didn't allow COs to give me envelopes. I had to work around and, you know, have help from COs who felt bad for me and other inmates who felt bad for me and gave me their stamps. This was a torturous, dehumanizing process. And I got to say, she allowed me to stay an additional almost three weeks in solitary so she can run her, quote, internal process.

And all along calling this protective custody while she put me alongside with people who were in segregated isolation for disciplinary custody, meaning one phone call every 30 days for 15 minutes, no visits, only once a month with shackles. They put me in shackles, Pierce, you know, what they usually put murderers and dangerous people in. So this is the kind of treatment I received. No real mental health. They took me off my medications that I've been on for 22 years, which is Vivance. And anyone who knows ADHD and ADD understand how imperative that is for your mental health. This warden runs a slaughterhouse of a facility, and she used it to weaponize it against me. What was the first night like when that door clanked shut?

and you're left there. What were you feeling? I was in this big dorm with almost 50 other guys, and I cried. I cried every night, Pierce, and I'm an emotional guy. We've been in person together. You've seen that firsthand. I'm emotional. I cried, but I was trying to adjust the best I could until the warden slapped me into the isolation. The first night was awful. You walk in, you don't know anybody. You're caught off guard. The conditions are awful.

sanitation and sanitary conditions don't really exist. Nutrition is absolutely subpar. And you're forced to live in an environment that's unsafe, hostile, and unsanitary. How can you even start to comprehend that this is how the FCI Ferritin institution and the warden expect to rehabilitate someone? It doesn't happen. Did you feel physically scared those first few days and weeks? The first few days I was up, my guard was up, I was absolutely terrified. I told you in your audience before going.

You know, violence, sexual violence, physical violence, all those things went through my head. Luckily, there was a good group of people there with a good head on their shoulders who kind of were just like, look, nobody's going to mess with you, nobody's going to hurt you. We're here. We're not that kind of facility. That's what they would say at the camp. And truly, I never really was in physical harm there. People treated me really graciously, and I'm forever thankful for that. All people from all walks of life and different political opinions were very generous and very gracious towards me.

So no physical harm there for sure. There will be people watching this saying, you know, get out the smallest violin in the world. You know, you were a liar, you were a cheat, you're a fraudster and so on. That's why you were in prison. You know, it's not a holiday camp, it's not a hotel. And prisons are tough for a reason. They're there to deter people. What do you say to those people who won't have any sympathy for what you've been saying?

Look, I understand my critics. I created my critics because it was my own self-doing. I was in such a destructive, self-destructive path that I left a trail of hurt all along the way to my former colleagues in the House, my former New York GOP apparatus, my supporters, my voters, the constituents of New York's third district, along with friends and family. It's my own doing. So it's part of my mission. It's part of my path towards redemption is to endure the criticism and take it as, you know, constructive and built on it and prove to them through actions, not just words, that I will do better and I will be better and show them that side. And only time will heal wounds and only time will warrant true forgiveness from people in Pearson. That's all I can do. You know, I can't, I can't expect any much more than that. I have a lot of work to do ahead of me. You said that you owe the American people. You also owed them $373,000, which was the fine put against you.

That also gets wiped in the commutation of your sentence. And there's been questions whether you will feel a personal moral obligation to pay it. What is your view? So I was actually speaking with my attorneys this morning. We don't have an official vehicle or way to do that. But we are going to explore options. We're going to consult. We'll figure something out.

I think, as you said, and I've spoken to other people, they said it would be a great start. Obviously, if it's what it takes, I want to do it. It's just a matter of understanding how can we do it. And I look forward to figuring that out. It's only day five. And I look forward to doing the best I can to start really regaining public trust and rebuilding my life here. So again, it's not off the table. It's just a matter of how and what will be the vehicle to do so.

People can come out of prison, George, and go one or two ways. I've seen it with people and know myself. They can either become genuinely better people who understand what they did was completely wrong and then pledge to leading a better, more honest and decent life, or they go completely off the rails and double down and travel down and end up being lifetime criminals. What do you feel about where you are in yourself today? I mean, spiritually speaking, I'll be very clear. I had such revelation while I was in there.

Just a couple of days before coming out of solitary confinement, I'm sorry, just a couple of days after coming out of solitary confinement. Our visiting priest was there for Mass. I went to confession as he offered. I took communion after many years of being pretty much ignoring my faith and everything that's really important. And that was Thursday, and on Friday, I got commuted. So to tell me that I squared away with God and was able to make that peace and amends, I see that there's no other path other than a path of good and prosperity and to do the right thing. To go back and go back into this self-destructive wrongdoing path would be utterly irresponsible and just morally bankrupt.

And that's not what I want to portray. That's not what I want for my life. We don't get a start over in life, but we do have the opportunity to rewrite the ending of our life. And I'm not going to let that go or forego that opportunity that was granted to me by the grace of God and the mercy of President Trump by extending clemency towards me. So I have a lot on my shoulders to perform a very solid future for President Trump, for the American people, and above all, God. So there's just no turning back at this point. Have you had a chance to talk to President Trump yet? I did. On Saturday, he called me. We had a lovely conversation. He was very, you know, George has.

Have a good life, do good. And I told him, President Trump, I want to work on prison reform. I want to help you and the team and the party do as much as we can to do the right thing. And he was receptive. And I look forward to doing anything I can in my capacity. This isn't about money. This isn't about fame. This is about doing the right thing and advocating.

Imagine 250,000 Americans are in federal custody today in our country, by far, the largest country with the percentage of inmates in federal custody in the first world. The fact that we have a 35% recidivism in federal inmates shows you that we have a very broke rehabilitation system, and that all the recidivism is actually higher transgressions than the previous, making that the custody levels higher. And I believe that that happens because we don't have a good reformatory system. We have a punitive system. It's not about making it a hotel stay, but it's also about rehabilitating people so that they can go back to communities.

and be treated with dignity while incarcerated. I have a voice. If they did what they did to me, can you imagine what they do to people who don't have the same privilege that I have and the same relationships that I have? So that opened my eyes to want to go out there and do what is right. Finally, George, what was the thing you missed most when you were banged up in prison? And what was the first thing you did when you got your freedom back?

My family. My family means everything to me, peers. My spouse, my sister, my niece Chloe, who's seven years old, and she's autistic, and she's my full-time job. I take her to her therapies and all of her activities. And that being taken away from me hurt me profoundly. And, you know, I've just been indulging in their presence. And the first thing I did was go for a good meal of sushi. I needed to make sure that my first meal was not out of a can and not frozen not too long ago.

So sushi was the first meal I had and the first thing I did when I got out of prison, Pierce. Well, George, it's good to see you. You know, I think that you, by the time you were about to go to prison when we last did an interview, I felt you would reconcile with the fact that you had gone down the wrong path in life. You regretted it and you were going to take your punishment, whatever that was going to ensue. It was a very difficult interview to do with somebody when I previously interviewed you were so full of life and exuberant and so on. You were nearly a broken man, but it didn't break you. And I'm glad that President Trump has given you a second chance here to be a different person.

And I hope that you become that person that you want to be. I think it would be really the best outcome that can come from a bad situation like this. Pierce, and I appreciate you saying that because it's humbling. It's really humbling. To look back, I look back at a lot of clips. I was angry. I was poisoned. My soul and body were poisoned by anger. And that's a poison I no longer want in my life because it nearly destroyed me permanently.

So like I said, it's great to be with you. It's great to be with your audience. And I just want to say thank you for the opportunity to always communicate with you openly. And I will say you've always been my toughest interviewer and you've always called me on my BS. And I want to say thank you, Pierce, for keeping me up to snuff and holding me accountable. George, it's good to see you and I will watch what you do next with great interest. Thank you very much for coming on. Thank you, Pierce. Thank you for having me.

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