Piers Morgan Uncensored - Houthis DENY Mecca Drone Attack In Exclusive Piers Morgan Interview

Episode Date: September 24, 2026

The Houthis of Yemen are increasingly becoming a subject of major global concern. Having ramped up attacks on commercial shipping passing through the Bab al-Mandab Strait, they pose a direct threat to international maritime trade and the global economy. As a vital passage supplementing the Strait of Hormuz, disruptions here risk driving global prices for oil and essential commodities significantly higher, carrying severe financial and political consequences worldwide. Yet, the highest price of this ongoing crisis is borne by the Yemeni people. Amid 11 years of devastating civil war, an estimated 400,000 people have died from combat or famine, with thousands more forced to flee their homes as refugees. What is officially a domestic conflict between the Houthis and the Yemeni government has escalated into a broad regional war involving Saudi Arabia, backed by the United States, the UK, and Israel. With Saudi Arabia calling on the US for a renewed military campaign following a Houthi attack on Mecca, the world eagerly awaits President Donald Trump’s next move. In a rare and exclusive interview on Piers Morgan Uncensored, senior Houthi official Nasr al-Din Amer joins Piers Morgan to address these escalating tensions, the attacks in the Red Sea, and what comes next for Yemen and the region. Piers is then joined by Tehran University’s Professor Mohammad Marandi, Middle East Forum chief strategist Jim Hanson and  military analyst and political scientist Robert Pape. (00:00.00) Introduction (00:02:03) Naser Al-Din Amer on accusations of a Houthi attack on Mecca  (00:06:19) Houthis believe Saudi Arabia was planning a ground invasion (00:09:16) Responding to claims of being a terrorist organisation (00:13:08) What do the Houthis plan to do with the Bab el-Mandeb Strait  (00:20:56) What is the end game for the Houthis?  (00:26:51) Professor Marandi on the Houthis’ reluctance to admit who their allies are 30:57 Trump’s ‘annihilate Islamic republic’ UN speech  35:30 Jim Hanson argues President Trump’s plan is working  42:06 Marandi: ‘Your other guest is openly genocidal’ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

If, as you say, it was not Houthis who fired the drone towards Mecca, then who did? Maybe it could be Israel. There is a tense relationship and they are desperate to incite against Muslims. Your slogan, death to America, death to Israel, a curse upon Jews victory to Islam. We say death to America because America kills us and launches attacks also against the Palestinians. It was comical to watch it. I don't blame him. You know, nobody wants to be someone else's puppet.

assistance to allies makes them proxies, then all of the countries that are associated with the United States are proxies by definition. He said, I'm going to annihilate a civilization. So your guess is utterly dishonest and by definition a propagandist. People can watch and see you're genocidal. This is something we haven't done since we tried to do it to Nazi Germany. The amount of lashback, I don't want to be on a civilian airliner if this happens. The Houthis of the Houthis of Yemen are increasingly the subject of global concern. They've ramped up attacks on ships passing the Bab al-Mandab Strait, a vital supplement to the Strait of Almuz,

which remains throttled by Iran. This continues the global cost of oil and commodities could soar yet further. There will be grave political consequences, too, not to mention the financial cost to millions of people around the world. But the highest price is still being paid by the Yemeni people. Thousands of fled as refugees this week, a staggering 400,000 have died through combat or famine in 11 bloody years of civil war.

Officially, this is a war between the Houthis and Yemen's government. In reality, they are engaged in a major regional conflict with Saudi Arabia, backed by the United States, the UK and likely Israel too. The Saudis asked the US to launch a major new campaign after the apparent hooty attack on Mecca. The world is awaiting President Trump's next move. And in a rare and exclusive interview, the senior hootie official, Nasser al-Din Amr,

joins me now on uncensored, and we're using a translator for, this interview. Well, welcome to you, Mr. Amo. I appreciate you doing this interview. Let me first of all ask you, is it true that the Houthis launched this drone attack at Mecca in Saudi Arabia, something that Saudi Arabia's King Salman has described as a heinous crime and has said that Houthis were responsible and are a terrorist militia? I thank you, Paris. I'm glad to be your guest today.

These allegations are incorrect and it has no basis at all. And we have no interest to target holy places because there are Muslims. And these holy places are our holy places. And you know clearly that we entered this battle with Israel and also with Israel to defend the Al-Aqa Mosque in Palestine, which is the same status. So these allegations try the Saudi government to incite against the Houthis in order to

avoid fighting us. So we have no interest and we totally reject these allegations. And Muslims around the world, they did not believe these allegations. We cannot. We pray towards the Kaaba. So this is a very dangerous accusation. And the Yemeni people are Muslim people. We totally reject these allegations. We have, we preserve the right to retaliate against this allegation. And we also preparing to launch an attack because we are Muslims. And they are accusing us that we are non-believers.

And they only provoke against us that we are not, We affect the Babelmandab Strait, and also they are trying to incite Muslims against us. That Saudi Arabia, they are drowning, they have been imposing a siege on the Yemeni people, and over one million Yemeni people, according to the Red Nations, they died as a result of the siege. And now they are trying to escape their responsibilities by saying that the Yemeni Houthis are targeting Makkah, or they are a threat to the Meritans. time this is baseless. Saudi Arabia committed the crimes and they continued to

commit crimes. Short while ago they committed massacres against civilians in Hodeida. Saudi Arabia killed children, women and also they killed prisoners. It killed prisoners. Okay, but let me, I need to ask you a question. Yeah, if as you say, it was not Houthis who fired the drone towards Mecca, then who did because it was intercepted by Saudi Arabian forces. If it wasn't you and the Saudis absolutely believe it was you, then who was it? First, we don't believe that there was a drone on the skies of Macca. If a drone targeted Maca, really, could be Israel. So they are trying to politicize, to politicize holy places, maybe a third party could launch that drone.

Maybe it could be Israel. There is a tense relationship, and they are desperate to incite against Muslims. So politicizing religious places, this could actually trigger Israel. So we suspect this is a basis accusation. We have no role in this. And also we are against any attacks against Hali places and Saudi Arabia. We blame them. And also we also point our fingers against Israel for launching the drone.

The Houthis obviously launched attacks this week, which you said were preemptive against an unproven Saudi ground operation. What evidence do you have that Saudi Arabia was preparing a ground invasion? Saudi Arabia, on the 13th of July, the attack Sana Airport, international airport, a civilian aircraft, I was on board that plane. We were returning from Ali al-Ikhameri after returning back from Iran. We had also patients, we had women on board that plane, and Saudi Arabia targeted the the airport. So therefore, they violated, they destroyed the crime. And then they imposed

the siege. And then we imposed the siege on them in retaliation. And based on the understandings, there was a road map between us. The U.S. envoy stated that there must be implementation for the road map. they shouldn't target airports or civilian infrastructure. So because we have been supporting Gaza, the U.S. envoy, he said that we should be punished. So we requested that they should abide by the understanding, and we imposed a siege on the Saudi Arabia.

Then Saudi forces and their alliances, they said that They are targeting Yemen in retaliation. So Sana'a hosts millions of civilians, also in Hada and there are tens of millions of Yemeni people. Seventy percent of Yemen, they are living in areas under the Sinha government. So they have been intending to attack. We also – it's publicly – publicly they announced that they will attack us. So therefore, we attack them by launching rockets. So they insisted to attack us.

Then we identified their forces that were intending to launch an attack. Then we diffused the tension by targeting them, and also we imposed a siege on the Red Sea. Also the local people, they have been urging us to intervene. There are some images. Some people have been calling upon us that they have been mistreated by the Saudi forces who were present in those areas and they have been controlling those areas and they have been targeting locals. There is a belief, as you know, that Iran is funding you, helping you, encouraging you.

You have an official political slogan and rallying cry, the Houthis, called the Saka, meaning a scream or outcry in Arabic. It explicitly states death to America, death to Israel, to Israel, a curse upon the Jews, victory to Islam. You're categorized as a terrorist organization in the United States and many other countries, not in the UK, although there are sanctions against you by our government. But given your slogan is wedded to death to America, death to Israel, a curse upon Jews victory to Islam, how do you dispute the belief that you are as King Salman called you a terrorist militia.

First of all, the question, I would like to answer. The allegations that Iran is supporting us, this is a repeated question. We have been accused, even Hamas was accused, the Palestinian movement of being a terrorist organization and working for Iran interests, although Hamas have been resisting Israel's occupation. Even before the establishment of the Islamic State, they say that Hamas works for Iran's interest, and Hamas has been resisting Israel. So this is an attempt.

They have been targeting us, and they say that we belong to Iran. So we resist oppression. We resist injustice when we say death to America because America kills us. America kills us and launches attacks also against the Palestinians. So we use this slogan rejecting its stance. The US administration, the US has been attacking us, the siege on us, the sanctions, confiscating our resources, the Saudi criminal regime also supported by Israel. So we use this slogan because we are in pain, we are rejecting the oppression.

Our religion is a peaceful religion and we reject injustice. So we use this slogan. We do not practice any terrorist organizations. This is rejected. We don't explode people. So we reject this terminology. We move on a systematic way. We are known.

We walk freely from our belief. We defend Palestine. We defend Maca. And we give our support. And also, the whole government in Sanha was martyred. The whole team was martyred. So we are doing a legitimate resistance. Also, freedom-plieving people around the world.

accused of being a terrorist figure. This is always those who are resisting injustice that are described as terrorist. Well, actually, if I can jump in there, if I could jump in there, you know, sometimes terrorist organizations are branded terrorists because they're actually terrorists. So not all terrorists turn out to be Nelson Mandela,

and I think that's pretty disingenuous to suggest they do. You know, let me talk to you specifically, if I may, about the Bab el-Mandab Strait because there are huge concerns not just by Saudi Arabia which uses that strait to distribute a lot of its energy but the rest of the world and the global energy market already reeling from what's happening

at the Strait of Hormuz for six, seven months now, now facing the prospect of the Bab al-Mandab Strait being effectively controlled by you, the Hooties. Is your plan to control that straight for a period of time If so, how long do you want to control it for? And what is your purpose in controlling that straight? This is a very important question. So I want everybody to hear the answer.

You clearly know. And the United Nations states that Yemen has been suffering from a humanitarian, a man-made humanitarian crisis. Who caused that man-made crisis? It's Yemen. It's Saudi Arabia, sorry. So we are working to remove the siege on our people. There is suffering. The UNRAT nations said millions of Yemenis are in need of help.

Also, the US administration, they have stopped the financial, the humanitarian aid because we have been supporting Gaza. So we need to remove this oppression. And we told Saudi Arabia, your ships cannot go through unless you remove your siege. We know the world has been affected, but we need the world to pressure the Saudi Arabia to remove the siege imposed in Yemen, and if they dealt with the economic crisis, which were caused by Saudi Arabia, if Saudi Arabia fulfilled its commitment, then we will remove the seat. And the whole world knows that if these operations are for Iran's interests or not.

Why the world only put the pressure on us? What is requested from us? Our people are dying, so we need to take action. Well, your people are dying, and 400,000 or more have died in the 11 years of this civil war. You blame Saudi Arabia for absolutely everything. You say you have no connection with the Iranians. They're not helping you, funding you, arming you. I don't believe that. There's plenty of evidence that they do.

But when you blame Saudi Arabia specifically for the humanitarian crisis in Yemen, it should be noted the UN has also documented hooty forces, diverting aid, taxing shipments and recruiting child soldiers, you know, many people will listen to you talking to me and thinking you're trying to portray yourself as a bunch of angels sent down to, you know, save everybody in this region, when in fact many people view the Houthis

in the same where they view Hamas and Hezbollah as Iranian-backed terror groups who have waged systematic terror all over the region for a sustained period of time and caused enormous hardship to their own people. First of all, we do not consider our relationship as an accusation. Iran is an Islamic respected country in the region, and it has its weight, and we totally respected,

and the whole Muslim world, they're respected, and the US attacks, it's totally rejected. We reject this accusation, and it's not actually. actually a bad accusation, but they have been exaggerating. We do not work under the directions of Iran. We defend ourselves. Palestine is an Arabic country.

Iran is Pharisee country, but we have a responsibility towards Palestine more than our responsibility towards Iran. So when we say that the siege imposed by Saudi Arabia on Yemen and the United Nations said the siege has led to the death of 1.5 million people. This is as a result of the siege only. Can you imagine? So Saudi Arabia is imposing the siege. Also, when Saudi Arabia launched more than 270,000 air strikes, we hold them responsible.

We don't have airplanes to kill our own people. We cannot kill ourselves. So Saudi Arabia is totally responsible for our suffering. Arabia started this aggression and they started the aggression from Washington, the Saudi ambassador and the Yemeni people have been defending themselves. And the U.S. envoy Jamal al-Amar, he stated that Yemeni people were about to reach a settlement, but Saudi Arabia started the aggression. So we hold Saudi Arabia responsible for this.

Iran did not launch one single strike in Yemen. Iran did not intervene in Yemen. All these accusations are based on being terrorists, these are things are being politicized. We did not attack anybody. We are defending ourselves. Okay, it's been reporting. The President Trump paused a planned military offensive

against the Houthis in Yemen, amid division among military leaders, about whether to join Saudi Arabia's attacks. It's believed the Saudis wanted the Americans to launch a big offensive against you. Is that your understanding that the Americans were planning to do this? And if that is the case, why do you think President Trump called it off? We need Trump to explain why he did that.

As for us, we assured the world that we do not attack Saudi Arabia or against the US, the United States. Because they are not launching attacks against us, then we have no interest to target them. So if they attack us, then this will be considered a hostile attack, and it's not an interest to attack us. The US administration is not interested to enlarge or expand its attacks. I think he works for his own interest. He wants to save his face, and he doesn't want to dig deep or drown.

in the region. If he is still considering military attacks against the Houthis, what is your message to President Trump? Our message to President Trump, we did not start this war. We are not targeting you. Our attack is against Saudi Arabia that besieged Yemen. Anybody attacks us, then we will defend ourselves

and they will cause more miseries. want stability in the region, and we went a total lifting of the siege, and he should stop waging wars in the region. Even his war against Iran is an Israeli-American war, and Israel dragged his feet. It's not in his interest to continue this war. So he is contributing to the prices, skyrocketing. So we need to lift the siege. We are actually the world's largest humanitarian crisis in the world.

This is what we want. Ultimately, what is the Houthis' endgame here? What do you actually want to achieve as a group? At this stage, we need the lifting of the siege. We need to protect our country from foreign interventions. We don't want Saudi Arabia to control us. We want the region to live in peace and security as Muslims. Our Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him.

We have sent you a mercy to mankind. And we want to be part of the message of mercy. We don't want to insult the world. But they have been planting Israel in the region, and Israel has been attacking us, they have been inciting us, they have been growing sedition against us. oppression and also they have been attacking nations, they have been denying people their freedoms, and they have been accusing us of being terrorists in order to deprive us of our

freedom. They are serving Israel. This is our goal. We want stability and peace and also we want to contribute to be the source of security and peace and also to support those who have been suffering from oppression. Our role is clear. We need to be merciful, we need to defend mankind. We need to defend anybody who has been suffering from injustice. This is our role. So we feel how oppressed people feel. NASA Aldine, Emma, I appreciate you coming on Uncensor.

Thank you very much. Listening to that was Professor at Tehran University, Mohamed Morandi, the chief strategist at the Middle East Forum, Jim Hansen, a military analyst. political scientist, Robert Pat. Well, welcome to all of you. Robert, let me start with you. What's your reaction to that interview

with the gentleman from the Houthis? I think it was quite helpful on a number of counts. So, number one, you see that there's no quick deal. There's no quick end to this, peers. What we have to expect is an ongoing problem. The issues here with the Houthis have been local with other groups in Yan. for years, with the Saudis for years. This is not about to change. The second thing that I think

is really quite important here is that you can see that he's rarely not, when he's asked, you ask the direct question, the ultimate goal. The Houthis are not about to surrender power in Yemen anytime soon. That's really the core basis of the relationship between Iran and the Houthis. It's not the case that Iran is a puppet master of the Houthis. It's also not true. The Houthis are ignoring Iran. They're working together in an alliance, and that is based on the fact there's a common interest from Iran and the Houthis of having the government, certainly in the southwest corner of Yemen, that part of Yemen, controlled by the Houthis. And that is going to continue. And I think you saw that in this interview.

Yeah, Jim Hanson, welcome back to Unsensored. You know, he went to great pains to say we're not sort of puppets of the Iranian regime, we're our own people and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But I think there's plenty of well-documented evidence out there that the Houthis and Hamas have all been funded and helped and armed by the Iranians. You know, why, I'm just curious, really, I don't know the answer to this question, but why would he go out of his way to deny what appears to be the bleeding obvious? It was comical to watch him tap dance around that.

As you said, the IRGC has lived in Yemen. They've built factories there. They've created drone manufacturing capabilities. They've sent them so many boatloads of weapons, the advanced ones they've used to attack shipping. So there's no question about that. I don't blame him. Nobody wants to be someone else's puppet. but the axis of resistance that Iran has is all funded and controlled in many ways by that.

And I think the interesting thing in the Iran war has been the Houthis have been the dog that didn't bark. You know, we've all been waiting to see, okay, we got all the problems in the Strait of Hormuz, what about Bobo Mondeb? And there was nothing happening there for the bulk of this. And I think the word went out from Tehran that, hey, we are in deep, serious trouble here. We have no revenue. We're not getting our oil out.

nothing good is happening and the Americans aren't giving up, we need you guys to cause some trouble. And I think the timing of this is pretty indicative that Tehran told them, now is the time to do this. And the problem they have is that President Trump, if he's not going to join the Saudis war and potentially the Emirates as well, he's going to tell them to have at it. And he's going to tell them, do your best to shut down the Houthis

and keep them from causing trouble. I mean, the other way of looking at that is that the Houthis have looked and Iran has looked at this second straight, they've realized the power of controlling a strait of water through which energy flows, and they want to expand that power as leverage to this secondary strait, and that it's more of a sign of they understand

that, never mind the debate about nuclear weapons, if you control these two straits, you control 25% of the world's energy flow, which is an enormously powerful thing. Many think more powerful than having a nuclear weapon, frankly. Let me bring in Professor Morandi. Welcome back to Uncensor Professor. You know, I was struck by a number of things in that interview.

But again, I ask you the question, why the reluctance of the Houthis to just say, yeah, you know what? The Iranians have been very helpful with us, Esbola, Hamas. We're all in this together. We're wedded by an audiology, which is part of their Sarka, their official slogan, death to America, death to Israel, curse upon Jews, victory to Israel, victory to Israel. Islam. Sounds pretty similar for the kind of stuff I hear from your regime. Well, first of all, I think you and the previous guests are making something very simple, very complicated, because it runs against your narrative.

He said we're not proxies. He doesn't say that we are not friends. And if providing assistance to allies makes them proxies, then all of the countries that are associated with the United States are proxies by definition. And all groups that are funded by the United States are proxies by definition. So you can't have a definition devise for Iran so that you can call it a regime and it's proxies. And then you use a different definition for the United States and the empire. But also I don't think any ideology has anything to do with death to America or death to Israel.

The ideology is of resistance. is of resistance against oppression. And the Saudis have been oppressive against the Yemeni people. The starvation siege on Yemen has killed hundreds of thousands of people at least. And the West, the collective West, and much of the region, the family dictatorships across the region, have been assisting in the genocidal aspirations of Saudi Arabia and Yemen. And there, and Sard al-in-as say no. And by the way, peers, proxies don't fight well.

Proxies do fight pretty poorly. The Saudi proxies, the Saudi funded militias and groups or the so-called official government, which has never been in the capital of Yemen for well over a decade, but still the West Ghals of the government. And the Yemeni and the Houthis, as you call them, or Ansar, they're the rebels as if they're in mountains. in caves or in some jungle, the Saudi-funded militias fight poorly, even though they're much better funded and they're much better equipped.

Why? Because they are the proxies. And the Yemeni armed forces and Sardala, or what you call the Houthis, they fight much better because they have their fighting for principles. They tried to stop the genocide in Gaza when your governments were funding. and assisting with the genocide and continue to do so. And they are fighting now to end the siege on their own people. And instead of telling the Saudis, well, end the siege.

You say, no, they are the problem. And of course, when you speak about Jews and Israel, you know quite well that we have synagogues in Iran. You had guests on your show who've been to Iran. I think Max Blumenthal was on your show, if I'm not mistaken. And the Israelis bombed a synagogue in Tehran. Why did they bomb it? They're the anti-Jews. The Muslims in this region are anti-Zionists,

and those Jews who are Zionists. And other Jews, in our country, almost all the Jews, are anti-Zionists. The issue is Zionism, whether it's Jewish Zionism, whether it's Christian Zionism, just like our opposition to ISIS and al-Qaeda and the Takfididic groups, We don't consider them to be Muslim. We don't consider them to be Sunni. We don't consider them to be Shia.

We consider them to be proxies of empire. Okay. Robert Payne, you know, you've had this extraordinary outburst by President Trump at the UNGA. Let's take a look at what he said. But I have a big decision to make. Will a deal be made with Iran that lets them rebuild and create a far greater country than it ever was before? maybe one of the greatest in the Middle East or even the world. Or do I annihilate the Islamic Republic and do it quickly, never giving them a chance to kill

and destroy people and countries again? Do I drive them into hell with no chance of survival and no hope of future greatness or generations? But I believe we'll make a deal right after the election. I mean, Robert, I found that a pretty extraordinary thing for the President of the United States to say, apart for anything else, if he did annihilate Iran with his 90 million people who live there,

that would be a genocidal war crime, open and shut case. Yeah. Before you respond, I want to play the response from Iran's president, who actually is in New York as well, Masu Pazetsky, who said this in response. The Iranian people will only increase in the face of sanctions, increased pressure, increased bullying, we will never bow our head or bend at the knee.

Iran must be understood by Mr. Trump and those who seek to bully us that we are ready for dialogue and diplomacy and negotiations without accepting the language of force. You know, he further said the US president described as as terrorists. We've been the victims of terrorism. He said the US bond of school and children perish on the bonds of weapons, used by the US and Israel.

You know, a very angry response, as you would expect. It's surprising to see him there in New York, I have to say, given all what's going on. But let's take what Trump said first. You know, for the President of the United States, just to casually talk about annihilating an entire country like Iran, that, I mean, it just struck me. It's pretty shocking, pretty awful.

Yes, morally, absolutely. Coercive won't work. But let me, I spent three years. teaching conventional targeting strategy for the U.S. Air Force about what it means to take down a country in detail, peers. So this is not just hand-wavy commentary. Now, he could be talking nuclear. Most likely, he is talking about the plan to take down all electric power in Iran. On my escalation trap substack, a couple months ago, I published what Tehran, what that would do to Tehran over a period of months. If you,

truly target the generating halls, not just simply the transformers here, and you take down electric power, you are talking after a period of 30 days, large-scale evacuations of the city, you were talking about the end of dialysis, you were talking about the end of hospital care for, you were talking about deaths in the many thousands to the young and the old, and this could then domino across the country. Now, of course, he could be referring to nuclear, but I just want to point out, peers, that it is certainly understandable. The public doesn't understand can electric power targeting. I'm one of the experts on this.

I know a lot about this. This is something I know a ton about, and that is most likely what he's talking about. And would it end Iran as a civilization? That's a – I don't – but the amount of damage that this would do to Iran, especially destroying the custom-built generating halls that cannot be put back for six months to years, peers, is extraordinary. This is something we haven't done since we tried to do it to Nazi Germany, and this is something that I think is what's really on offer here, and we need to talk about that, because if we go nuclear, everybody says, oh, no, he'll never do that. No, this is what he's

been talking about. And I think he, I hope he doesn't pull the trigger because the consequences of this would be horrendous for Iranians. But the amount of lashback, I don't want to be on a civilian airliner if this happens. Well, right. And Jim Hansen, you responded positively to Trump's speech. You said this on Fox News. Let's take a listen. They can't open the straight. It's open. We opened it. So the idea that they're going to make a deal based on some gift they're giving to us, that we took from them is not the way things are going to work. President Trump showed the world who's in charge. He's in charge of the world's energy supply.

He's in charge of the world's most powerful military. And he's in charge of what's going to happen, both in our hemisphere and any place we have interests. And I think the world is recognizing that. His plan is working. The thing is, Jim, I'm not convinced the plan is working because this plan is supposed to last two to three weeks, then five to six weeks.

We're now seven months into this. And the strait is not as open as it was before all this. The Iranian regime remains intact. The IRGC clearly have firm control. There's been no uprising by the people at all. They've been causing enormous global economic harm with their control of the strait and been firing off rockets and stuff at their neighbouring Gulf states, which has been causing enormous economic harm to those.

So how anyone can say with a straight face that right now America's got complete control here, It's winning. It's all about to end. I don't think that's the case. And when you look at what the hooties are planning to do with his second straight, if they do get proper control of that and start doing the same there, this problem to me gets a lot worse. And in relation to Trump what he said, you know,

if Robert Pape was there translating for him in real time explaining what he thinks he really meant, that's fine. But he wasn't, and we all heard what we heard. And I just don't like the President of the United States talking about annihilating entire countries. It is the language of genocide. He didn't say he was going to annihilate the entire country. He said he would annihilate the Islamic Republic, which does not represent the entire country and tyrannizes basically the entire country. And if you went and checked with the people of Iran and looked how many of them would prefer another government to the Islamic Republic,

you're probably well north of three quarters of the country would much prefer the Islamic Republic to dump itself on the ash heap of history. Now, as far as what the plan was, the plan initially in Iran was not based on just that. President Trump went to the Gulf states as his first overseas trip. He told the Qataris, Emirates, and Saudis, this is your neighborhood. It's time for you guys to step up. I'm going to need your help with Iran. And in return, I will help you get a ceasefire in Gaza. We'll start making trade deals, et cetera. That is what's going well. If you look at it, now the Saudis are engaged, the Qataris are engaged. And I'm guessing the Emirates might jump in against the Houthis because those guys are not going to take control of

that other strait. And the Iranians are not going to maintain control of any kind in the strait of Hormuz. That's, in my opinion, the counterweight to Iranian hegemony using their axis of resistance, their proxies. And it's comical to say that they're not proxies. They have been wholly funded, you know, Hamas and Hezbollah and the Houthis, all of their dangerous toys came from Tehran. That's no longer going to be the case because Tehran doesn't have enough money to even buy gas for the Basij to run around and slaughter their own people. They're broke. They're not gaining any revenue from oil sales. Their smuggling is not making up for that. And they're about to crack. So President Trump loves hyperbolic rhetoric. And if you look at that and try to say, well,

His literal words meant this. He didn't say Iran. He said the Islamic Republic. And he meant to put pressure on them and remind them that the pain comes if you don't make a deal. They're likely to make a deal because they won't survive.

Okay, but Jim, before I go to Professor Morandi, I mean, Trump has been saying stuff like this now for seven months, right? This is all over. It's all about to win. We're doing a deal. No, we're going to wipe you out. We're going to annihilate you.

We're going to do this, this, this and this. a lot of people have checked out. They're just not listening to it anymore because they see the reality is nothing then happens. But a lot happened, peers. Look at their economy. They don't have any revenue coming in.

You know, they can barely keep the IRGC function. If they were as weak as you say, then the Americans would now have full control of Australia or Hulmoose. This regime would no longer be sitting there. You know, because the Israelis, we know this. The Israelis at the start of all this, said to Donald Trump, look, we can take out the IATOLA and his top people.

And if we do, the IRGC will collapse from within, the people will rise up, and you'll get a natural revolution. Well, the first bit happened and nothing else happened. And I've been watching this for seven months saying, well, I hope Donald Trump proves me wrong. I get a sense of knowing him a long time that the president has got himself into something, which he is desperate to get out of, not least politically, because gas prices and so on are just horrendous for him. politically when it comes to the midterm elections. And if he was to lose the House and Senate in a few weeks' time, this could turn out to be his legacy.

And I'm just not seeing it. That was the best case scenario. All right. The idea of you're presenting a very positive glow. I'm just putting a little bit of a dent in your halo here. And that's fine. And I don't disagree with what you've said. But it still has only been several months against a regime

that's been in power for decades. And the people there are not organized to supplant So if it had happened, if the decapitation strike and the 40 regime leaders who went down on day one had been enough to topple it and allow the people to rise up, like I said, that would have been wonderful. It didn't happen. Now we're in a longer grind for that. But no one thinks that the Islamic Republic is going to be the continuing government for Iran.

Their days are numbered. And no one should pretend that what's going on inside that country is the IRGC, you know, still riding high still able to control things. They're hanging on by their fingernails to a cliff like Wiley Coyote. And now they can still cause trouble in the Strait of Hormuz. But that's about all they've got left. And they certainly can't supply their guys, the Houthis, Hamas, Hezbollah, or the militias in Iraq, Iraq and Syria with the weapons they have been.

They're fading. And President Trump's got the pressure on, and they will break. Okay. Professor Miranda, look, in the general scheme of warfare, even though the Americans don't call it war, because they'd have to get congressional approval. It's one of these conflicts or whatever language they want to use.

You know, in a way, Jim's right. This is fairly early days for this kind of thing. Look at what's happened in Ukraine, many, many years now. But it's the timeline Donald Trump set throughout this that has caused people to think, well, what the hell is happening here? You said it would be over in two to three weeks. You said it would then be five to six weeks.

And here we are. It's taken seven months, and we're no nearer the end, it seems, than we were back in the first few weeks of this. What is your response to what Jim Hansen said? Well, the other guest is, of course, openly genocidal because he's talking about starving the Iranian people. The economy is being crushed.

And you sort of implied that you agreed with that policy because you were saying that if the people starve, then they rise up and there will be an organic revolution. That's exactly the opposite of a number. organic revolution. So basically what he is saying is saying, let's kill the kids, let's kill the women. That's what he's saying. He cannot deny it. Starve the people, make them suffer because they don't like the revolution. So let's starve them. And then as you said, let's have an organic revolution. This is deeply sinister. And it shows the nature of the U.S. Empire. And Iran is not going

to fall. And he can fantasize all he wants about that. And he's also. being intellectually dishonest. And if I can say he's lying, because Trump not to speak about the Islamic Republic. Trump spoke repeatedly during the last few months. He said, I'm going to send Iran back to the Stone Age. He didn't say he's going to send the Islamic Republic back to the story. He said, I'm going to annihilate a civilization. So your guess is utterly dishonest, and by definition, a propeandist. But let me be. be very clear. Project one. If the United States, well, people, people can watch and see, you're genocidal. If the United States does carry out the threat of targeting, and I think

Professor Pap is correct, that he most probably will be targeting, or is thinking of targeting Iran's power plants, if that happens, which, that would be a crime against humanity. That would be like a nuclear strike because many, many thousands, tens of thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands over time will die. Just like the siege, just like the starvation siege, just like maximum pressure sanctions. These are all intended to kill people, to prevent people from obtaining medicine, to have families collapse for them to lose jobs. There's a lust in the United States to make Iranians starve. It's a deep sickness, which we've seen on this show. But if that happens, have no doubt that everything on the other side of the Persian Gulf, because those

regimes are complicit. They are a part of this war. They will lose everything. And the same is true with any country that assists the United States, including, of course, the Israeli regime. So there will be no more oil or gas or LNG from the Persian Gulf for many years to come, and your economies will go to hell. So Iran does not want this. But when we have genocidal people, Trump and some other people, I don't want to name, when we have genocidal people making genocidal threats, they better be careful because the retaliation that comes will hit them back just as hard. If the, and your guess says that Iran doesn't control the straight of almost fine, then why do you want to carry out genocide?

Why do you want to carry out genocide? The Hothis, as you call them, or Ansar Allah, they're saying, lift the siege. Stop killing our women and children. I said, no, we have to take the straight back. Why? Because the Saudis must have their oil go through. So continue to starve the women and children of Yemen so that our buddies, the Saudis, a despotic family that funds the ideology of ISIS and al-Qaeda, of course, with the consent

of the United States, so that they can continue doing what they do. This is the dystopian world that the U.S. Empire has created. Not created. It is an extension of hundreds of years of empire. But this is utterly dystopian. The Islamic Republic of Iran's guilt is that it opposes genocide in Gaza. And Yemen is despised because it opposes genocide in Gaza. But I'm pretty sure that there are quite a few people who like to see the Iranian starve

who are not all that problem. You don't see much of a problem with what's going on in Gaza. Okay, Robert, you know, I did see you nodding to quite a lot of that. So what is your reading of what you just heard? Well, absolutely, the consequences here are, as Professor Menami is laying out here. And that is what I said. This is in detail in the modeling. This is not just hand-wavy estimates.

And so, again, I did a 10-page single-space analysis on what would happen to Tehran. And once you take down electric power for beyond 30 days, peers. would happen in London as well beyond 30 days, peers. But the second thing I want to say is, we are on the predictable escalation trajectory that I've been laying out for several months, where in August you have the Bondell Mendeb shut down, the Red Sea shut down, as I said that in July, this would happen in August. Then the next step would be $5 gas in the United States. then the next step, and this was my nightmare scenario that I laid out, would be President Trump would do the electric power targeting.

Now, a lot of people then in the United States, they don't understand what that means. That's why we're talking about this, and that's why it's easy for President Trump to launch the electric power attacks because American people don't know targeting electric power plants. Of course, they don't. But what I want to point out is somebody who's been modeling this for 20 years, deep in the details of this for a long period of time, and the predictions are coming accurate that if we do the electric power targeting, what that's going to mean that the American people don't get is we're virtually guaranteed to invade Iran on the ground. It won't happen in weeks.

It will happen. And why? Yes, smile if you wish, but here's why. Are you going to let Iran have that thousand pounds of 60% enriched iridium after you've done all this damage to a all those people and you're getting all this revenge back. So you tell me that's fine, sir. You just tell me, oh, no, that's absolutely fine. We're just going to let that thousand pounds of enriched 60% enriched uranium go to whoever. It could go to Hamas. It can go to the Houthis. It can go from people. So the problem here is you take down this regime the way Netanyahu has been wanting for all these years. This is what guarantees the nuclear problem. and we will have no way to know peers that is not happening unless we go in there.

This is what the nightmare scenario is about. And notice how six months ago, everybody laughed when I was predicting. This was going to go on for months and months and months and months. Oh, I couldn't possibly. This is something important for people to hear. We are going down a predictable road and you can't stop it once you go to the next stages. It's a ratchet effect because the consequences by Iran, Iran won't just sit there, the people there won't just sit there and take all this as the professor, Montrandi, is explaining. Okay, Jim, I'm going to give you the final word because you have been accused of supporting genocide.

So let me give you the chance to respond. Yeah, nobody supports genocide. And there isn't one happening in Gaza, so I think we can skip that as well. Look, President Trump has said one thing. He is not going to allow Iran to be a danger to the rest of the world with a nuclear weapon. Now, at this point, he's done everything he can through this entire process to give them a chance to stop tyrannizing the region, their own people, and the world with that threat and their terrorist proxy activity. They've decided they don't want to do that or they're pushing it to the very end, hoping that the U.S. midterms would stop him. We will not use a nuclear weapon.

We will not put ground troops there to invade Iran. What we will do is topple the regime slowly if necessary, or they can change their evil ways and join the rest of civilized society. I don't think they've got it in them. They've shown that over time. But President Trump did not want to be the one who didn't give them the opportunity. So whatever steps are taken, and I don't think we'll actually destroy the entire grid and take that risk of humanitarian. danger, but we will do things that cause the regime to topple and that let the bulk of the Iranian people, the Persians to become great again, not to be a pawn in the revolutionary,

you know, Armageddon-like attempts of the Shia regime to try to dominate the world. Okay, we're going to leave it there. Fascinating debate. Thank you all very much indeed for your time. I appreciate it. Pierce Morgan-on-Sense that is proudly independent. The only boss around here is me. our show, we ask only one simple thing. Hit subscribe on YouTube and follow Piers Morgan Uncensored on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. And in return, we will continue our mission to inform, irritate and entertain. And we'll do it all for free. Independent Uncensored Media has never been more critical and we couldn't do it without you.