Piers Morgan Uncensored - Is Trump The New Hitler? w/ Mehdi Hasan

Episode Date: July 17, 2024

One of the most frequent accusations levelled against former president Donald Trump is that; he speaks like Hitler, he behaves like Hitler and ultimately is the ‘new Hitler’. But are these highly-charged assertions warranted? Piers Morgan says absolutely not. Furthermore, Piers asserts that both sides of the political spectrum have been carelessly incendiary with their language and calls for a ‘turning down of the heat’. However, there’s plenty of blame to be thrown around over which side is the worst offender, and Piers’ guests don’t seem to be in an olive branch-extending mood. Piers’ contributors for this discussion are editor-in-chief and CEO of Zateo, Mehdi Hasan, host of 'The Ben Ferguson Show', Ben Ferguson, RNC spokeswoman Elizabeth Pipko, US Air Force veteran and YouTuber Jake Broe and host of 'Roland Martin Unfiltered', Roland Martin. They talk Trump, Biden, the power of words and Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Do you genuinely believe that Donald Trump is the new Hitler? Yes or no? I believe he's someone who quotes Hitler. J.D. Vance is a Republican. He compared him to Hitler. You know perfectly well Biden was not inciting balance. It's a figure of speech. Ben Shapiro had to deny any influence on the Kuwaiti

city mosque shooter who killed six Muslims in January 2017. Ben Shapiro called Obama are fascists. You defect on every single question I've asked you. Because you are so one-sided, Pierre, so I have to give some balance. It's a lot of sad bullshit, and we should be better than this. You're spreading Russia from. Propaganda. Let me finish and shut up and just let me finish.

And then you can say it's propaganda, which is the line that you guys in the left use. I had to sit here and listen to an insane, ridiculous, nonsensical discussion for 40 minutes. Former President Trump has been buried by an avalanche in the past four years. He lost the 2020 election. And yes, he did lose that contrary to what he would have you believe. Republican stammered in the midterms as the red wave became a red trickle. There was a legal barrage, a felony conviction, a mugshot at Fulton County Jail. And this weekend, literal bullets from an attempted assassin were fired at his head.

The Trump has risen untroubled from the rubble of that avalanche and is standing on the precipice of a quite monumental, unprecedented comeback. Nikki Haley once called him unhinged, insecure and unqualified to be president. But last night, she said this. I'll start by making one thing perfectly clear. Donald Trump has my strong endorsement, period. Governor Ronda Santis once said Trump had lost it, and he energized Democrats more than John Kennedy.

Last night, he said this. That the current president of the United States lacks the capability to discharge the duties of his office. Our enemies do not confine their designs to between 10 a.m. and 4 p.m. We need a commander-in-chief who can lead 24 hours a day and seven days a week. America cannot afford four more years of a weekend

at Bernie's presidency. Well, Trump's running mate, J.D. Vance once said he was a cynical asshole, unfit for office. Tonight you'll get on stage and tell the R&C that it will be the honor of his life to serve as Trump's vice president. So what's changed here? Is that the Republican Party has been completely reshaped in Trump's image? Is it the personal ambition of canny operators

who know that only one man can actually win this? Is it that America needs unity after coming within an inch of a tragedy that would have unleashed deadly chaos and instability? I suspect the answer to all those things is yes. The Republic, the greatest unifier in America right now, is actually the current president, whose lady's speech again did very little to inspire. Like America first high-speed rail line, that's going to take you from Las Vegas to Los Angeles in two hours, create over 30,000 jobs, and guess what?

Save billions of tons of pollution, because of pollution. Because all the studies show you can get from point A to point B in a train or a vehicle at the same distance to take the train. Modern Earth was he talking about? Honestly, I have no idea. Now, assuming Biden does manage to cling on, this is now the Republicans' election to surely lose. All Trump has to do is carry the vials carefully across a shiny floor. Attention should now rightly turn to whether Trump can really become a unifier, should he win again, and how he'll govern the country. And there are plenty of questions to answer about that.

In a moment, we'll meet tonight's panel. But joining me now is the editor-in-chief and CEO of Zateo, Mehdi Hassan. And, me, great to have you back on uncensored. And first of all, your reaction to the attempted assassination, of Donald Trump. Well, first of all, Piers, thanks for having me back on, and I enjoyed your Roy Jenkins line there

about carrying the vase across the floor. Let's see if Trump can do that. The assassination that was horrific. I remember hearing the news on Saturday. I was stunned. And I'm absolutely like you. I agree that if he had been killed, all hell would have broken loose,

as you said earlier on the show. I totally agree with that. And I'm glad he wasn't killed, because, number one, unlike Donald Trump, I don't wish death upon my political opponents. And number two, obviously, it's fundamentally immoral fundamentally immoral and illegal to try and kill your political opponent. I would rather see Donald Trump convicted in court and or defeated at the ballot box.

So I'm very glad that he did not die on Saturday. You know, I interviewed Destiny yesterday. He has a big following online. And I try to get him just to condemn what this shooter attempted to do. And this is what he said. I'm asking you to condemn what happened as an egregious attack on a dog on democracy. Can you do that? No, I won't. No, I want to get.

You can't do that. You see? So why the hell? Frankly, Destiny, why the hell should we listen to a word you have to say? I found that pretty startling, actually, and very indicative of what I've sensed about politics in America, in Britain, in other countries as well, that since the advent of social media in particular, fueling this kind of toxic tribal nature of discourse, that if you can't condemn a 20-year-old with an AR-15 trying to blow the brains out of a president, whoever it is, whichever side that president comes from.

In the same way, and I'm not going to go over this with you today, because I want to stick on to the Trump story. But it's why I always ask people in the Israel-Hamas war debate, did you condemn what happened on October the 7th? Because frankly, it's quite illuminating if people can't condemn horror when they see it. I'm not comparing the two, and I don't want you to respond to that part of it. But what I do want to just get your reaction to is, Do you share my discomfort that people have got so entrenched into their side now,

so entrenched that they just simply can't see the wood for the trees and say something which is vaguely humane? Look, that is a very fair point. I'm not a fan of destiny, but let me just put some of what he was saying in context because I watched that discussion. I think the point he was trying to make, and I think he did it badly, is that there is a double standard here. That as with the Palestine-Israel debate

where you tend to only ask Palestinians to condemn and not Israelis. Journalists, not just yourself, tend to obsess over liberals condemning stuff while conservatives get a pass. And I think that is what bothers a lot of people. It certainly bothers me. And you know, you mentioned condemning violence, peers.

On Monday's show, you had Ben Shapiro on. I think you had Dan, the Texas Congressman, Dan Crenshaw on, and he had Rudy Giuliani on, right? All three of them have at some point glorified violence, embrace violence, incited violence. Dan Crenshaw's put out videos where he's blowing stuff up, beating up left-wingers. Rudy Giuliani, as you know, peers on January the 6th, told an armed

mob to do trial by combat. Ben Shapiro had to deny any influence on the Quebec City mosque shooter who killed six Muslims in January 2017. Ben Shapiro called Obama a fascist. You didn't ask any of those three people to condemn their own past. So that's, I think, what bothers destiny, certainly bothers me. We have one party in this country, one movement that's been inciting violence for years. That's the Republican Party and the conservative movement. And yet one bullet is fired by registered Republican voter on Saturday, and suddenly it's the Liberals must condemn Democrats, Joe Biden sitting on TV mumbling defensively. I shouldn't have said bullseye. It's a joke. Come on, Pierce. You know and I know that the political violence in this country

is coming from the right. The incitments coming from the right. Donald Trump has embraced violence in my lifetime. Let me respond to that. I, look, in relation to things like January 6th, my record speaks for itself. I wrote a number of pretty blistering columns about how appalling I found that. And what a shocking attack on democracy it was and how shameful Trump's rhetoric was on the day to fuel the mob. Make no pretense of that whatsoever. On this particular occasion, I wanted to have a conversation about what happened to Donald Trump last weekend.

One of the things I would counter what you've just said with is, you know, this idea that somehow the left have been completely blamens. And just to remind people, I'm not on the right. I'm not a conservative. Never had been, right? I mean, I voted for Margaret Thatcher when I was about 18. But I've also voted for Tony Blair, and I've voted for left-wing leaders before, and I ran a Daily Mirror, which, as you know, was a left-leaning newspaper in Britain for 10 years.

So this idea that I'm on the right, as some people try and paint me, is for the birds. However, what I try and do is be fair-minded about the culpability of both sides. And I'll return the favour by criticising you, because one of my big bug bears here has been the persistent analogies and comparisons of Donald Trump to Adolf Hitler. I want to play two clips of two clips of you. Were you to say that this is approaching sort of a fascist sort of ideology? Well, as you say, it's not just approaching, we're beyond it, right? Yes.

I was saying, I was saying on this network in 2020, I was saying in my writing in 2019, this is authoritarianism, this is fascism, people have calm the hell down. Everyone used to cite a guy called Robert Paxton, who's one of this country's leading historians of fascism. And he would say, Trump's not a fascist, he doesn't meet the definition of fashion. Guess what he said on January the 6th? I was wrong. He's a fascist. Okay.

Paxton comes out and says he's a fascist, right? He's got armed militias. He's inciting violence. Now he's straight up channeling Adolf Hitler. Trump isn't hiding his authoritarian ambitions for a second term, from punishing his political opponents to locking up immigrants in camps to deploying the military, all while echoing the hateful rhetoric of Adolf Hitler. Now, I also want to play you a mash-up of a lot of other public figures talking about Trump. Yeah, I saw it on Monday.

Let's let's play it again for viewers. Many are openly comparing Donald Trump to Adolf Hitler. Trump's been compared to the German dictator by some throughout his presidential campaign. Is Donald Trump really a fascist? Maria Chappelle Nadal posted this picture to Twitter yesterday. It appears to compare Donald Trump to Hitler. Former President Trump doubles down on a phrase many say he borrowed from Hitler. President Fantasyland decided to take a page out of Adolf Hitler's playbook last week.

Yes, Donald Trump took his Hitler cosplay for the next. Do you want to clear the air because you think you're being unfavorably compared to Donald Trump? A unified Reich? That's Hitler's language. That's not America's. New York's daily news ran this front page earlier this week. Trump is Hitler. According to the Washington Post, Trump has long toyed with the language of fascists. Former President Donald Trump allegedly praised Adolf Hitler, saying the Nazi leader had, quote, done some good things. Now, many, with all due respect, that is a bullshit. Trump is not Adolf Hitler. Adolf Hitler

murdered 12 million people killing 6 million Jews and a holocaust. There is no comparison to be made between Adolf Hitler and the Nazis and Donald Trump. And to persistently make it, as you and many others on the left have done for years since he first ran in 2016, I think has been part of the problem

of the political discourse in America. If you keep calling a guy Hitler, is it completely insane to think that at some point, somebody's going to say, well, in that case, if he really is the new Hitler, we've got to kill him. I mean, wouldn't you be the first to construct a moral argument that if somebody is literally the new Hitler right now on this planet, there is an absolute moral imperative, indeed duty,

to kill that person? Otherwise, he's not the new Hitler. Okay. You can't be both. Let's unpack. There's a lot there, peers. You said a lot there and played a very long chance. Let's respond to some of the things.

First of all, you say that's all bullshit. you said playing that clip a moment ago. That clip ended with Willie Geist of NBC reporting that Donald Trump said Hitler did some good things. How is that bullshit? That's what Donald Trump said. Because if you read the whole context of what he actually said that day, it's a deliberately misconstrued, tiny part of what he's saying. It's not. It is actually.

It's not. It's what John Kelly said. Hold on. Hold on. You've had a long question. Let me, let me respond to you. He also said, you quoted me on MSNBC. Yeah, I was responding to Trump literally quoting lines from Mindcamp.

the blood of this country. Pierce, you're not a racist, I hope. You don't agree with saying immigrants are poisoning the blood of this country. But do you think he is a Nazi line? Hold on. That is a Nazi. That's not, no, no, I'm responding to you played a clip of me. So I'm going to talk about what I said.

I stand by the line that Donald Trump is echoing the rhetoric of Adolf Hitler. He is. That's a fact. Donald Trump praised Hitler, according to his own Republican chief of staff. That is a fact. And stop saying the left calls him Hitler. You know who called him America's Hitler? His running mate, J.D. Vance, a Republican senator,

called him America's Hitler. By the way, he was wrong too. Republicans, it doesn't matter what he was wrong. You're wrong to say it was the left. JD Vance called him. Well, no, you're wrong, you're wrong, Pierce, because Jady Vance is a Republican, he compared him to Hitler. People who have looked at what Trump and said has done,

fascism experts have said the guy is echoing fascist rhetoric. This is a guy, Pierce, and I know you are the grandson of a British war hero who fought the Nazis. I know Captain Mark Oliver was a World War II hero who fought the Nazis. So I don't say this lightly when I say this. Matthew Oliver, excuse me. me, war hero for our country. And yet today, you're taking light of the fact that Donald Trump quotes Adolf Hitler. He praises Nazis at Charlottesville as very fine people. He hosts a Nazi

Holocaust denier. For dinner at his home, did you condemn that? Did you condemn that? You say you're not right-wing, peers. You say you're not right-wing, peers. And yet you give your right-wing guests a pass. Ben Shapiro came on your show on Monday. You didn't ask him about calling Barack Obama a fascist. Did he put a... Did he incite violence against Barack Obama? Why didn't you ask Why are you playing a clip of me on Trump, but you didn't play a clip of Shapiro on Barack Obama? Never mind what interviews I've done with other people. What I'm curious about is do you... Well, I can't.

Well, when you tell me you you're not right-wing, that's what I'm correct. Let me ask you. Let me ask you. Let me ask you. Then you're right. Then you're left. Do you genuinely believe that Donald Trump is the new Hitler? Yes or no?

No, I don't believe he's the new Hitler. I believe he's someone who quotes Hitler. Do you believe that he should have hosted a Holocaust denying Hitler supporter at his home for dinner? No. I tweeted you shouldn't have done. So then why are you giving him a pass? Why are you always praising him on your show? Why don't you start every show?

I'm not giving him a pass. Why is a guy running for president who, oh come on, peers. I've watched you for the last three days. You've been bathing him with praise. This is a guy who hosts a Holocaust. Hang on. Hang on. Praises Nazis.

Hang on. Calls African country shithole countries. Okay. Tells non-white women to go back to the countries they came from. It says black people like me more because I got indicted. Don't misquote me. Don't misquote me. By the way, if you want to let your viewers know,

If you want to know my views about all the things you've just been saying, they're all there public record. I'm a weekly columnist. I've condemned Trump for many, many things. But he is not the new Hitler. That's easy today. But overall, you're still supporting him for Hitler. Let me point in our point.

You haven't called for him to stand down from the race. You called for Biden to stand down. I don't think Trump. Well, we're going to come to Biden where we'll find common ground, I'm sure. But the point I've been making about Trump since the attempt of assassination. It's your double standards. I've only made two points about Trump. I'm sure we have common ground.

Medi. I've only made two points about Trump. since the weekend. One, he showed incredible personal courage in the seconds after he was shot. To get back up, when he didn't know if there were still other shooters out there and to show such defiance. Okay, you may not think so, but I did, right? Secondly, I'm saying fair enough. That literally means it's a fair point. Okay. And secondly, the only other point I've made is I genuinely think this is going to propel him back to the White House. It's not my, I don't have a vote. That is not the only other point you've made for. I haven't told anyone to vote for him. Medi, you've got to let me finish my

You've got to let me finish my sentence. You have to, you have to, as you would expect on your show, right? I believe he's going to win. I'm not telling people to vote for him. I can't vote for him. I just believe Donald Trump will now be the next president of the United States, partly because of what happened last weekend and partly because of the decrepit and ridiculous and embarrassing state

of the person he's up against Joe Biden. So when you say I've been praising Trump for three days, no, all I've said is I think he showed, great personal courage and I think he's going to win the election. Those two things, by the way, I think I'll get to turn out historically to be completely true. No, no, come on. That's incomplete. I watch both of your shows Monday Tuesday.

People can go watch them. You have acted as if there's two sides to this that the Democrats are guilty of the same incitement and violence. There's not. I'm sorry. All right, let's play a game. I literally just played a bunch of people calling him Hitler for the last eight years. Those are not, sorry. Well, no, you did it.

Actually, you played a clip from Willie Geist accurately reporting that Trump said Trump, Hitler did good things. No, I've played many, many, many, many, many, many, people. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. You sure. Pierce, peers, Joe Biden, Kamala Harris, Hakeem Jeffrey's Chuck Schumer, leadership of the Democratic Party. Can you play to me clips of them inciting violence in the same

way as Donald Trump, Marjorie Taylor Green, Ron DeSantis, Paul Goz. Why are you deflecting? Because you are deflecting, peers. I'm not going to see here. No, I'm asking you both sides bullshit tonight. You might be conflating. This is a Republican Party is a party of violence. Medi, you might be conflating the two roles. Medi. Now you're cutting me off.

Now, now you're cutting me off. Let me answer your question. I'm reminding you it's actually my show and I do the questions and you answer them. On yours, it's the way around. Let me answer the question. There are not two sides. When you say it's not two sides to me. When you say it's not two sides, but I've played you a bunch of clips of people repeatedly calling him Hitler, I say to you, there's the two sides. All right, so let me respond.

Can I respond? Yeah. Can I respond? Okay, let me respond. Donald Trump ran for office in 2016 telling protesters rallies to punch people to pay their bills. As president, he played a clip of a guy saying the only good Democrat is a dead Democrat. He said to the proud boys, stand back and stand by. You called Nazis at Charlottesville.

No, let me finish. You're interrupting me, Pierce. I need to finish my sentence. I need to finish my sentence. I'm not going to finish yours. I'm on your show. I'm a guest. I'm pointing out that it's not two sides.

What Donald Trump has said, your views need to hear this because you're not telling them this. Trump spends his entire presidency inciting violence against Ilhan Omar, George Soros, multiple members of Congress, people of color, right? He left office, right? having incited an insurrection, which you condemned, he told him to go fight like hell. He told you, he said Mark Millie should be executed, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of staff. What's this got to do with my question?

He mocked Paul Pelosi. I'm getting to it. He mocked Paul Pelosi for being hammered in the head. He was wrong to do that. That was outrageous. It's not about whether he was wrong, Pierce. It is. I can give you dozens of actual violent quotes

from Donald Trump, Marjorie Taylor Green, Paul Gazette. You can't give me those quotes. Can you get back to my question? From Biden, Pelosi, Jeffries. No, I answer my question. Where did Joe Biden say the only good Republicans is a Republican? Republican. Medi. But it's not both sides,

you can't deflect, Piers. The viewers are watching. Your side has literally spent eight years calling him Hitler. It's ridiculous to say there's no both sides. We've already discussed the Hitler point. Where have they incited violence? Where did Biden say, go kill people? You can't keep asking me questions. No, no, Pierre, I'm not letting this go. Sorry. General Mark Millie, he called for his execution. Can you point to me to a single Democrat

who's called for a Republican execution? Let me ask you. I'll wait. I won't interrupt you. Let me ask. I'm waiting, Piz. I'm asking you. I'm asking you. Questions, many. who's called for an execution. Medi, respectfully, it's my show, I ask the questions.

Now, listen, answer me this. If he is the new Hitler, as so many people have been calling him, would there be a moral justification in shooting him? Of course not. I'm not someone who advocates violence, peers. The Republicans are, but you never ask them about it. Because you're supportive of the Republican. Medi, sit to your side.

I'm not deflating. I answered your question. I just said I don't support violence. The only people who support violence, in American political culture, on Marjorie Taylor Green, Donald Trump, Paul Gosar, Ron DeSantis, the governor of Montana who was convicted

for assaulting a journalist, Trump praised him. Paul Pelosi was hammered by a guy who believed in the election light, Trump praised him. I mean, this is insane, peers. There's one side that is inciting violence, praising violence, mocking violence. You have no problem with them. Instead, you obsess over journalists reporting accurately

that Trump was quoted Hitler and praised Hitler. I read that the president of the United States only three days before Donald Trump was shot said it's time to put him in the bullseye. If that's not violent language, what is? This is such bad faith. You know perfectly well Biden was not inciting violence. It's a figure of speech.

He's already foolishly apologised for it. You're comparing that to call it every execution of Mark Millie. So every time your side uses violent language, they don't mean it. But every time the other side does, they do. Hold on, hold, hold on. Oh, my word. Pierce, come on. Marjorie Taylor Green and Donald Trump called for their opponents to be executed. Did Biden do that?

I'll ask again. You dodged it the first time. No. Did Joe Biden do that? And you're obsessed with Hitler. Yes, I'm obsessed with Hitler because you and so many others keep calling him Hitler. So why haven't you condemned Trump? So does Trump.

Trump called Biden the Gestapo just two months ago. Did you condemn him on this? Right. Should people, let me ask you this. Should people, hang on, Medi, I'm asking you a question. I'm asking you a question. Sorry, Peter, you've made this entire interview about Hitler. I'm asking you, I'm asking you, I'm asking you, should people on the left continue?

Did you condemn Trump? Did you condemn Trump? Should Medi didn't ask a question? Should people on the left continue? to compare Donald Trump to Adolf Hitler? Yes or no? Should the right, should the right call Biden Hitler? Stop deflecting, ready.

It's not a question. I'm pointing out your biases, peers. I'm asking you a question about your side. Oh, my side is as long as Trump carries on praising Nazis, I'll point that out. This is show is called Peers uncensored, but you want to stop me from criticizing Trump because a Republican shot at him?

I don't want to stop you. Why do you say that? No. Why do you say that? You just said, will you stop comparing him to Hitler? Yes. I'm only comparing him to Hitler because he talked. like Hitler. So you are comparing him to Hitler who killed 12 million people.

Because he's quoting Hitler. No, I'm not. So you do think he's a new Hitler. This is childish. You do think he's Hitler? No, I think he's. No, I don't. I already said no, Pierce. This is very hard to understand. So he's not the new Hitler. He's not the new Hitler. If he's not the new Hitler, should people stop calling him Hitler? Yes or no? He's not the new Hitler, but he's quoting Hitler. So I'm going to say he's quoting Hitler, and you can't censor me from saying that. Of course I can't. If you have a problem with the Hitler analogies, hold on, Pierce, you do lots of interview to Trump. Why don't you ask him to stop echoing Hitler instead of asking him softball questions.

Oh, well, actually, I didn't ask softball questions. If you go back and look at them, they were probably the toughest interview. Did you ask him to stop quoting Hitler? Sorry? Did you ask him to stop quoting Hitler? You seem fascinating with questions I've asked other people. You asked me, but you yourself don't want to answer these questions. Because I worry about your double standards, peers.

What double standard? Your bias. I just pointed out to you. I don't have a bias. You didn't play in a clip. Can I finish that? You asked me a question. You don't let me finish.

Ben Shapira came on your show. You said all this. You did not play a clip of Ben Shapira recording up. You said all this. Can you finish one sentence? You've done what Joe Biden did not play one clip. Of him calling a fascist. You've done what Joe Biden did with Lester Holt.

I'm much more coherent speaker than Joe Biden. Every time Lester Holt asked Biden a question. He deflected. Actually, I wish Joe Biden would be more aggressive as I am with you and not put up with bullshit questions about bullseyes. Listen, like I said, you and I both agree, Joe Biden should be way more aggressive and coherent. Well, we're going to come to Joe Biden in a moment.

But just to be crystal clear, you have no problem with people on the left continuing to call Trump Adolf Hiddell or compare him to Hitler? I have no problem with Republicans like J.D. Vance calling Donald Trump Hitler if he talks like Hitler. No, I have no problem with that. And what about people on the left, like, including you? I mean, should I not, okay, Pete, I don't understand this question. If Donald Trump quotes Hitler, should I not say that?

Should I sense of myself on Pierce on. I'm just saying, if you genuinely believe on the left that you need to be clear with your question. I'm trying to ask you? No, no, I need to know, I need to understand your question. Should I not say to people that Donald Trump just quoted Hitler? Should I say, better not say that. That's not what I said. Not what I said.

So what should I do? Should people on the left continue to compare Trump to Hitler in light of what happened to him last weekend? Do you think that is part of the violent rhetoric which should not be tolerated? Pierce, what's last weekend got to do with Trump's rhetoric? He was shot by a Republican registered voter, wasn't it? We don't know the motives. If people, you, you misled your viewers on Monday. You said that.

You said he got shot because of the consequences of Biden's language. That's false, Pierce. No, I said it was partly to. It's a false statement. If you read the column properly, you would know that I said that Biden... No, I'm reading what you said on air. Hang on. The guy got shot because of the consequences of this kind of language.

That's false. We don't know why we're shot. The FBI has not come up with the motive. The fashitting up on all sides of violent rhetoric on all sides, including by Biden, has played a role in somebody deciding they want to kill Trump. You don't know that. You don't know that. You don't know that. He could be a crazy school shooter time.

We have no idea why this guy shot at Trump. He was a Trump supporter who shot at Trump. It's very confusing. We don't know why he did that. But would you understand that if someone is described. repeatedly as Adolf Hitler that some deranged individual might think it's morally justified to then kill the new Hitler. And that's why it's dangerous. So that's why I should stop. So my colleague John Harwood has it. Okay, so hold on. First of all, it should stop. Donald Trump,

not Joe Biden, called his opponent Hitler. This is fantastic. You defect on every single question I've asked you. Because you are so one-sided, Pierce, so I have to give some balance to this show. I'm just asking, do you think people to stop calling a Hitler? Because obviously it's a ridiculous. And I've only said to you when he stopped, I promise, Piers, let's do a deal. I promise if Trump stops quoting and acting like Hitler and quoting Hitler and praising Hitler and praising Nazis, I promise never to mention it again. Deal? So once again, you actually don't want to stop calling him Hitler,

even though you know it's wrong. No, once again, you don't want to engage with the rhetoric. This is like your new Hamas gotcha question. The substance of this peers is that Trump has praised Nazis at Charlottesville, hosted a Nazi for dinner at his house, and quotes from Mimecav. You're telling me the great free-speed champion, I should not be allowed to point that out because someone like you will say,

I'm calling him Hitler. No, I'm pointing out facts, Piers. If you don't like facts, what's the line your friend, Ben Shapiro says? Facts don't care about your feelings. They don't care about feelings at all. It's not about my feelings. It's about, I believe, the language on both sides. You're bothered by a comparison, but you won't engage in the substances. I think the left should stop calling him Hitler.

You need to point, and you should point out to where Joe Biden has called for the execution of his opponents. Only one candidate running for president has called for the execution of his opponents. You have not called that out. Let's just end on a point where I think we may. We may meet some agreement. Joe Biden should not be a Democrat nominee, should he? No, I don't think Dovan should be the Democratic nominee. I don't think Donald Trump should be the Republican nominee.

I wish we had two different nominees running for office. One on the Democratic side who was younger and more coherent and more energetic, and one on the Republican side who was less of a criminal and less of an authoritarian. But you think that Kamala Harris helped by Nancy Pelosi is the answer. I would say Pelosi's showing little sign of being any better than Biden in terms of her ability to construct a sentence. And Kamala Harris, I think, would also get completely wiped away by Donald Trump. So to me, it seems to me, the Democrats now cannot win.

They've dug themselves into a terrible place where they look fractured and just united. And the Republicans are united, it's not true. That's not true. It's ready to go. Piers, this is a United States of America, most polarized country in my lifetime. It's very, very tight because people are just partisans. On both sides, they'd vote for a corpse as their candidate. The latest polls show Trump up by two points. It's still a ridiculously close race.

Obviously, Trump's got the edge. He's got momentum. But here's why, here's a... You're going to get annoyed at me again. Sorry, Pierce, I've got to say. Again, the bias in your questions, you say, Biden can't string a sentence together. Nor can Trump, but you never point that out.

Oh, he can. But that's where you're so wrong. Oh, he can. Oh, he can. Oh, he can. On Monday, on Monday, you've got really worked up. Do one thing. Do one thing.

No, no, no. Let me finish an answer, Pierce. Can I have one answer? Please. One answer. Trump cannot finish sentences on One day you pointed out that he gets, Biden gets people's names wrong. You don't point out that Trump gets even more people's names wrong.

Last year, last month he said he passed a dementia test, he got the name of the doctor wrong. Instead of saying Ronnie Jackson, he said Ronnie Johnson. He's confused Obama and Biden. He confused Nancy Pelosi and Nikki Haley. He's confused Iraq and Syria. He confused World War II with World War III. He's confused the leader of Turkey with the leader of Hungary. He's confused the leader of China with the leader of North Korea.

He called Tim Cook, Tim Apple, right? And he even got his own running mates name wrong. called J.D. Vance, J.D. Mandel, a couple of years back. So Donald Trump gets way more names wrong. He's way more incoherent. He's way more ignorant. Which one of you, which one of the two of them? Which one of the two of them would you trust to drive you home? Which one of the two of them would I trust to drive me home? I don't give a damn. That's not the question. Which one of the two of them would I trust to run the country without being a criminal and autocrat or an ignoramus, Joe Biden, of course.

Of course. Well, that's why I disagree with you. I don't think Joe Biden can run a bath. And when it comes to driving me home, I take somebody. And you think Donald Trump, the man who thinks... And you think Donald Trump, the man... And you think Donald Trump... ...and everything else of Biden's been doing. Again. You know how bad Biden is.

You know it in your heart. I do. But unlike... I do. I do. Because unlike you, I'm not a partisan. I can say both of them have mental... You're not a partisan. You won't say anything. You won't say anything about Trump.

You're ignoring the fact that Trump said we should use... Oh, I criticize Trump all the time. That you need... You need... Not on mental health. In fact, again, just in this show, you've just pointed out... I was about to tell you what to do.

Trump couldn't walk. down a stage. Trump couldn't walk off a stage without someone holding his hand. Go and get video of the two of them from 10 years ago. I will. Play it in a split screen on your show to now. Oh, no doubt. Play both of them.

And you will see Trump is exactly the same as he was then, and Biden is not. End of story. That's the best point. That's the best point you've ever made, Pierce. You're right. Ten years ago, Biden has deteriorated for 10 years. Trump is the same as 10 years ago. But the difference is Trump was mentally incompetent 10 years ago.

He was incoherent and mad 10 years ago when he went off. What are you going to do, many, when he wins again? What are you going to do when he wins again? I don't know, Peas, I'm hoping that people like you will stand up for free speech and democracy against an authoritarian who wants to fight the press and call journalists scum. Actually, the biggest attacker of the press in modern presidential history was Barack Obama, actually, who was extremely draconian. And I never defended Barack Obama on that.

And I was interested earlier. As you know, peers, I never defended Barack Obama. I was interested earlier because you were talking about how Trump put people in cages and all this going to think. Do you know who deported the most people in American presidential history? Yes, Barack Obama and I called him out for a time. Do you know who also put lots of people in cages and separated families? Oh, that would be Obama. Do you know who dropped the most

hang on, finish yet? Do you know who dropped the most bombs in a calendar year? Oh, Barack Obama. Do you know who ran illegal drone programs that killed thousands of innocent people? Oh, Barack Obama. Do you know who actually campaigned in 0809 to to shut down Guantanamo Bay because as a former lawyer, he knew it was an illegal torture chamber. Oh, it's still open. So I'm afraid, Medi, your revisionism. So this is the problem, peers. Of St. Barack against evil Donald doesn't quite cut it with me. This is, so this is the problem, beers. Your question doesn't cut it with me because, number one, I criticize Obama for all those things.

Unlike you, I can criticize both sides. I criticize Trump all the time. You know I do. Why do you lie? You didn't. In that question, you didn't. In that question, you didn't. You just said Barack Obama increased Trump. drone strikes attacks. Trump actually escalated drone strikes over Obama. Trump supports Guantanamo. Trump wants to torture more people. And as for deportations, why don't you tell your viewers, one of the reasons we oppose Trump coming back, those of us with any sense, is because he wants to carry out the biggest deportation in history. Ejects 11 million people. Well, the biggest people, well, ironically, we look, 11 million people he wants to eject from this country. Ironically, the biggest deporter in history was Barack Obama, who was a Democrat

president. Anyway, Medi, we've got to leave it there. As always, good to debate with you. I appreciate it. And hopefully get you back on. as we get near the election. Thank you. Well, joining me now to discuss what we just heard is the host of the Ben Ferguson show, Ben Ferguson, the RNC spokeswoman Elizabeth Pipco, US Air Force veteran and YouTuber Jake Bro, and the host of Roland Martin.

And Philson, my old friend Roland Martin, who I used to work with a lot of CNN. Great to see you're still there, Roland, and welcome to Unsensored. Ben Ferguson, talking to Medi there, it's quite similar in a way to my conversations with people like Destiny in the last, sort of three days, where they are incapable of addressing any potential contribution by anybody

on the left in terms of violent incendiary language, for example, comparing Trump to Hitler, saying he should be in the bull's eye and so on and so on, without immediately deflecting to the right, who I believe also have a lot of things to answer for in terms of the language of views, including Donald Trump. What is your view of what Medi's argument was there? I think it's sad that after you have a moment where Donald Trump was almost murdered in front of the world, that you had that much bullshit from a partisan who doesn't care if a former President of United States of America is assassinated. I sat there and I watched that. I saw no compassion for this country. I saw no compassion for Donald Trump.

I saw no compassion for the people that were actually killed in that shooting. And I go back to what I've said for several days now. There are a lot of people on the left that have Trump derangement syndrome is the kindest way I can put it, where they wanted the president to die. And you saw it on social media. You saw it on stage with Jack Black. You've seen this in the democratic culture now for the last, since 2006, They have called him Hitler for years. The president has put out in 13 tweets, which I read on my show yesterday, that he is a threat to our democracy and a literal threat to our country.

If you go out and you say that every day, and if you are Joe Biden, and you're the leader of the United States of America, and you don't go out there and say to the American people, we need to take a step back. We have gone too far. and we need to come together and understand that political violence, and I have said things that I probably shouldn't have said. That's not leadership. It's just not. I have toned down my rhetoric because it's important. And if you don't understand that you almost had a dead former president,

by the grace of God, it got his ear and center of his brain, and you come on national TV, and the only thing you want to do is attack, Republicans with what aboutism, I'll use his words. It's a lot of sad bullshit. And we should be better than this as human beings. I've said this for a long time. I never want there to be harm on anyone who is a leader of a country, especially my country. Joe Biden, damn it, is my president. I want Joe Biden to be safe. I want Joe Biden to be protected. I want Joe Biden's family to be safe because they are my first family.

I say the same thing for Barack Obama, Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton. There is no place for this. And the fact that they can't even understand that after what happened on Saturday, that you need to tone it down and really look at your heart and realize how close we came

to bearing a former president because of the obsession with Orange Man Bad and Donald Trump should be in jail. Donald Trump is Adolf Hitler. Words matter. And leaders, by the way, peers, and I'll end with this. Leaders, true leaders, okay? They understand that words matter, and they understand as a leader, whether a Republican or Democrat, that words matter.

And what I saw from your last guest was, I think, sad. I think it's a sad commentary on the state of affairs and the Democratic Party. I don't believe, by the way, the Democratic Party is real anymore. I believe they're Marxists, socialists, and communists who have no problem taking out their political opponents by bankrupting them, throwing them in jail, or even killing them. And Roland, you can laugh, but the President of the United States of America got shot, and for you to laugh, I think it's sad and it's bullshit. All right, well, let me bring in Roland Martin, who was laughing there. Why were you laughing

there, Roland? Well, it's total bullshit, Ben, and I'm laughing because you just sat here with this hole, we need to step back, we need to watch what we say, and then it's like, oh, there are Marxists and their communists. That's what I was laughing at, because that's the was insane. You said what the president needs to do, he did. Great questions. No, no, Ben, no, Ben, Ben, no, I'm going to back it up.

You're going to, no, I'm going to finish. Then, I'm going to finish. Ben, I'm going to finish. I had to sit here and listen to an insane, ridiculous, nonsensical discussion for 40 minutes. It's back and forth, it's back and forth, it's back and forth. Nothing about policy, nothing about what was actually happening, but the back and forth. Here's the reality. President Biden came out shortly after the assassination attempt and spoke to the nation.

He spoke to the nation in the Oval Office. He's addressed this in an interview with Lester Hope. The reality is nobody, don't care who you are, should be pleased with assassination attempt on any American politician, whether it was Donald Trump, whether it was gas, have a difference, whether it was Reagan or Ford or any other president. I don't care who you are. So all this back and forth is just dumb. Now, are there political differences? Are they ideological differences? Can we have that actual debate?

Yes, can we do that? But what is ridiculous is when it's, oh, let's take a pause. And it's like, yeah, there are Marxists and then their communists. That bin is complete nonsense. Let me ask you, Roland. Roland, let me ask you. Hang on, Ben, hang on, Ben. Roland, let me ask you the question that,

look, there was a lot of back and forth with Medi because I believe that Medi constantly was deflecting from wanting to accept that anyone on the left has ever done or said inflammatory and sensory things. Obviously, they have. Do you believe it is unhelpful to public discourse in America that people keep calling Trump the new Hitler. People call him Trump and Hitler.

Republicans did. It was unhelpful. What's unhelpful is when we do not have policy conversations. That is unhelpful. But why can't you just answer that question? Why is it so hard to answer? When we go racist and non-race. Hang on, Ben.

You don't actually talk about what the actual issue is. That, to me, is silly. And then when you spend 40 minutes on just that one question versus what are the... But you won't answer it either. This conversation, this question can be answered very quickly and we move on. I answered it. What?

I answered it. Do you believe... Hang on, hang on, Roland. I missed it. I missed it. What was your answer? How did you miss it? Should people call Trump the new Hitler?

Yes or no? People shouldn't call Trump a new Hitler. If he quote Hitler, quote him. Okay, good. So he's not the new Hitler. It's wrong to do that. It's inflammatory and wrong, yeah? Do I believe he's dangerous?

Yes. No, no, no, no, no. See, again, Pierce, it's not the question. It should be very straightforward. No, no, Pierce, you ask a question. Is he the new Hitler? No. Should people stop calling him a new Hitler? Yes. I've already answered it. So people should stop calling him Hitler. Okay, we're going to call him Trump.

What's the next question, Pierce? I'll come to the next question. Now that you've answered... Fine. After about 50 minutes. Great. Fine. Yeah, but you know what? If Medi Hassan had answered, that question like you did, it would have taken, it would have taken two minutes. It's a waste of a conversation.

Actually, it's not. I actually think one of the members, it's actually not, because the only way, because when a president of the United States, who was president until three and a half years ago, who may well be president again come November, when he is nearly assassinated and it is widely accepted by everyone in American public discourse that the rhetoric used on both sides now for a long period of time has got completely out of hand and may well, we don't know, but may well have played a part in influencing someone to try and put a bullet in his brain. I think it's a legitimate debate. We have no idea what the motive was. No. We have no idea. None of this. Literally, none of this. We're making assumptions. And what I'm saying is that's nuts. Okay, but do you

accept finally, before I move on to L2-Poundless, finally, Roland, do you accept that it's actually legitimate to say that everyone should dial down the rhetoric? It is legitimate for people to have policy discussions. That's not my question. It is nonsensical when people talk about violence. I subscribe to the same position as Dr. King as Reverend Dr. Jim Lawson when it comes to the issue of nonviolence. Let me bring in Elizabeth. Pipkin, be waiting patiently. Elizabeth, you've been down at the RNC convention.

It's been extraordinarily united. I mean, I think that the obvious repercussions of this, you have a very fractured Democrat party who can't work out what to do about Joe Biden and a very split on that. But the Republicans now seem to have all rallied right behind Donald Trump, and there's a real spirit of unity there.

I mean, do you believe that this is going to propel Trump back to the White House? I certainly do. I heard you in the last segment as well, think that or say that you think Donald Trump will be the next president of the United States. I've thought that for quite some time now, and I think this weekend solidified that. I did not want this weekend to happen. I didn't want to get anything close to what we saw, but I think after what we saw this weekend,

what we saw at the debate a few weeks ago, what we've seen in the polls, what we've seen with the approval ratings for this administration, I think it is pretty obvious right now that Donald Trump will most likely be the next president of the United States. This party is very united. Like you said, we've had a great few days here in Milwaukee that's going to continue on do his speech tomorrow. I think he is even a changed man after what we saw. I think people will see the side of Donald Trump maybe that they've been missing for a few years now. But I truly echo what you've been saying in this panel. And previously, we need to tone it down, admit our

wrongs, admit our mistakes, admit that this country must come first, put the future of our country first, put the negativity behind us and propel Donald Trump, the only man for the job, into the White House. You say that you think he's changed. I mean, it'd be hard to imagine somebody not change when they'd come that close to death. It was a staggering, miraculous escape. Trump has, you know, I'm sure he wouldn't deny this. He's been extremely vocal since he became a politician in a very aggressive way, often a very mean-spirited way, often a lot of trash talking, often quite dangerous rhetoric. Is part of the evolution of Trump, Mark II, if you like, if he wants to get the White House back, are we going to see a different, more unifying president?

because it seems to me America is crying out for a bit more unity. And I think America was shocked to its core by what happened last weekend. And wants a different Trump, and wants a different Joe Biden, and wants a different lineup of politicians prepared to say, you know what, enough of this. We have to get back to a place where we can be a more civilized democracy. I completely agree. It's sad for me, Pierce. I've wanted to yell at you since I saw you roll your.

eyes at Susan Boyle like 15 years ago. Now we finally connect and we agree on literally everything. I could not agree more. I think the country is desperate for change. Let's not forget, not only was Donald Trump nearly assassinated, but we did lose an American life on Saturday. We lost a hero. He died protecting his family at the rally.

He woke up that day just wanting to support a man who he believed should be the next president of the United States and ended up not coming home that day. My family comes from the former Soviet Union. These are the kind of things that happen in those countries. This is not what happens. in this country and this is a moment for all of us to realize that we take a step back, think about what we've said, what we've done these last few years and realize that America must

come first. Our safety and our unity has to come first and I think that is on the forefront of Donald Trump's mind right now. Okay, let me bring in Jake Brod. Now Jake, I think you and I share a view that one of the most important things that whoever wins this election is going to be the ongoing defense of Ukraine in terms of supplying them with the weaponry and ammunition they need to repel the Russian invaders who illegally invaded their country. But if J.D. Vance, his appointment as Trump's VP, is there anything to send a signal? It's going to be a signal very worrying to President Zelensky in Ukraine because he's made it very clear that he does not think America should be helping Ukraine at all. How concerned are you about that appointment and the likelihood of this impacting Ukraine's

ability to win that war to at least stop the Russians continuing to advance? I'm very concerned. Our European partners are devastated at hearing that J.D. Vance was picked by Donald Trump. J.D. Vance is the most anti-Ukraine and pro-Russian politician in the United States Senate. I went back to just give him a fair shake. I watched his 34-minute speech on the Senate floor back in April before he voted for foreign aid to our allies, Israel, Taiwan, and now Ukraine. And J.D. Vance just repeats Kremlin propaganda, stating that, by health, helping Ukraine, we're going to trigger World War III. He went on some weird tangent that Zelensky is oppressing Christians and that this is going

to lead to some kind of devastating Christian refugee because of some bizarre. There's a video of them arresting people that are in ministry. Like, it's not hard to see that's accurate. The FSB controls the Eastern Orthodox Church of Russia. Patriarch Karel of Moscow is a former KGB agent. So Putin uses the church in Russia to control the people. Putin's an atheist. He doesn't believe in God.

And they use the Eastern Orthodox Church of Russia inside of Ukraine as a spy network. So I 100% support the Ukrainian's decision to push out the Russian Eastern Orthodox Church when Russia has declared war on Ukraine. It's not the only people they've done. And they're committing a genocide. Okay, let me ask Ben Ferguson. Ben, you and I have discussed this before. But I remain utterly bemused why the conservative right.

in America. Now, as a lot of people who do not think that defending freedom and democracy around the world is an important thing that America should be doing, given it's the world's number one superpower. When did you guys stop wanting to defend freedom and democracy? It couldn't be a better example than Ukraine, a sovereign democratic country in Europe being illegally invaded by a Russian dictator. When was the last time they had an election? When it was the last time Zelensky had an election there? We've only been president a few years. How many elections have they said they're going to cancel? Well, he was appointed in 2019 he became president.

He was illegally invaded. How many elections they had since 2019 in the country? Zero. Well, there's been a war for the last two and a half years. You suggesting they have an election in the middle of a war with the Russians attacking? We had a war. We were in Iraq and they had elections. Here's.

But hang on. Hang on. Let me go back. Let me ask you a difference. Hang on, hang on, everybody. Hang on. I agree with you, Roland, and he is deflecting. Let me ask you this, Ben. Let me ask you this, Ben, let me ask you a question, right? It's this.

In the first Gulf War, Kuwait was invaded by Saddam Hussein, and America and Britain and other allies raced to kick him out. They weren't even a member of NATO, right? And everyone on the conservative right agreed with that. You know, general storming Norman Schwarzschultzob was announced. national hero, the leading the repelling of the invaders, right? How is the conservative right in America, and you're one of them who's done this? How have you moved ideologically from thinking that is the right thing to do when countries are

invaded like that to today where you think it's fine that Vladimir Putin, a Russian dictator and an appalling human being, probably the most evil man alive right now, that he should be able to invade a country illegally, help himself to vast ways of that land, and America should do nothing about it. Don't put words my mouth and I'll explain it to you. I think many conservatives like myself and our foreign policy, we learned from mistakes instead of just saying we're going to be stubborn mules and never change on foreign policy. I don't think number one, you can export democracy. I don't think you can go into places like Afghanistan and Iraq and truly change the culture there. We thought we could. That was a massive failure. It cost a lot

of American lives. I learn from mistakes. I think that's what people do when they realize that an idea, when it doesn't become a reality, you don't keep doing it. Doing the same thing over and over again is incompetency and stupidity. But Ukraine wants democracy. Ukraine is asking for democracy. Ukraine voted for democracy. I have no problem. And I've said this before and I'll say it again. With helping Ukraine fight Russia as long as there are two things. Number one, accountability. where is our money going? How is it being used? And is it being siphoned off in massive corruption? If you know about Ukraine, the inspector general has accountability on all taxpayer funds. Let me just finish, dude. Let me just finish. Okay. You ask a question. Let me finish the question.

The amount of corruption in Ukraine. You're spreading Russian propaganda. Let me finish and shut up and just let me finish. And then you can say it's propaganda, which is the line that you guys in the left use. I'm fine with it. I know. what you're going to say. You have no idea what I'm going to say. The amount of corruption that the world has already proven that the money that's gone into Ukraine that has been siphoned off by oligarchs and others that has disappeared that was supposed to go to the war efforts that is not is a is significant. 80% of the funds stay here in the United States. We should have accountability. But banser allocated funds have entirely stayed in the United States. They go to U.S. defense

companies. As Jake is saying, the vast majority about money is never left the U.S. It's never left the U.S. most of the money. I will go back. I'll answer that question, Pierce. I don't think just because the money stays and makes some people rich in the U.S.

that that's a good foreign policy. But let me ask you this. Before I get a Roland, I want to get a round to get his responses. But, Ben, the final question is, the natural logical conclusion of your position on Ukraine is that Vladimir Putin wins.

How can you be happy if he wins? Well, how else does it end? How else does it end? I would say, say you better, Zelensky better actually have a plan where that, where he and his country are buying into a plan instead of a stalemate where it's like, I need another 30 billion, another $20 billion. And this thing goes on. How do you end the wall, Ben? You've already had a 10-year war in Afghanistan and you end the war. Ben, how do you end the war? At number one, you put pressure on them to actually

go to the table and have a real peace conversation and see if they get a deal done. They've not tried How much of the land, Ben, that Vladimir Putin has stolen by murdering a lot of people, how much of that land would you allow him to keep as part of that peace deal? If I'm advising Ukraine in my deal, I'd say none of it if I'm Ukraine. But I also know that we don't make it the United States of America either. So there's there is a ideal and then there's reality. I don't know what the reality looks like. like when Zelensky sits down at the table.

What I do know is it is dumb for us to have a foreign policy that is indefinite against two different countries and everybody in between is getting rich. Okay, let me come. We did it happen. All right. Let me come to Roland. Roland, your response to this.

Putin, look, Trump laws Putin. When Trump says, I can end this war quickly, Are you serious? Let's just be clear. The Republican Party, folks like Ben, they are following Donald Trump down the plank. The fact of the matter is, you as a NATO alliance,

you must understand. Ben, you talked a whole lot. You talked a whole lot. I didn't say a word. Well, the reality is when you have a NATO alliance, it is going to cost America a hell of a lot more. If Putin succeed in tech...

Ben, I did not interrupt you. It's going to cost America a lot more. If Putin takes over Ukraine, it's going to cost America a lot more money and a lot more lives. We should be standing with Ukraine. But what we should not be doing, as the other gets said,

is the bidding of Russia, presenting Russia disinformation as somehow, oh my God, massive amounts of corruption when we all know, 80% of the money, I am not finished. 80% of the money is going to American companies in every congressional district. So can we please stop with this nonsense

and understand that we are supposed to stand with our allies? And if Reagan, was here. I swear these same Republicans will be calling him crazy and deranged because he would be bringing in, all right, let me bring

in, hang on, hang on, let me bring in Elizabeth. Elizabeth, you're part of the Trump machinery. Trump has said he can fix all this in 24 hours. How would he do that? sanctions. Look, I'm

a little different than your other guests. I'm not going to sit here and scream, but I will I'll say Donald Trump, of course, Donald Trump is, you know, the person to answer that question for you. But when it comes to this issue, I don't come at this as the Republican spokeswoman right now. I come at this as someone whose parents escape from this region of the world, right? This actually matters to me. It's not just something I want to scream about on Twitter for political points. Okay, this is a complicated issue and many things can be true at once.

We can want Ukraine to win. We can want Putin to not get to be successful, right? Putin is not the man that any of us cheer for. I find it disgraceful when people tell me that I work for a man who supports him. Can you ask Trump to say that? Because Trump's never said that. I'm sure he will say it. I didn't interrupt you.

Don't interrupt me. Okay. Jake, come to you next. I will never in my life. I will never in my life work for a man or anybody else who would support the interest of Russia over this country. It's disgraceful to say that. And if you knew my family's history, I would hope you wouldn't. That's number one.

Number two, it is a complicated issue. We are allowed to want Americans to do better, especially when we are suffering as much as we are. At the same time as we want answers for how this war can possible. can possibly end after how many years have been put into it, how much money has been put into it, and how many innocent people have died. We can also want to support the good guys without wanting America to, God forbid, get into a nuclear war with a power like Russia. We are allowed to have serious conversations about this and not scream all day for no reason. We all know it's a complicated issue. I hope to God Donald Trump gets in and ends this war like he has promised us all he will do.

All right, Jake, you know, we're heading towards a very consequential election here. what's your view of where this election race now is? Because it seems to me as somebody who doesn't have a horse in the race, I don't have a vote in the race, but it seems to me you've got an extraordinary situation where you've still got Donald Trump facing nearly 100 criminal charges, although they're rapidly either leading to convictions that nobody seems to care about or they're being dropped.

But a man with all these criminal charges, all this baggage, all this history, steaming ahead now as a clear favorite to get reelected, And one of the main reasons is exacerbated by what happened at the weekend where Trump looked genuinely courageous when he came under fire. You look at Biden and you see a man who simply isn't fit for office anymore. Do you share that view? And what do the Democrats do about this? There are five months to go.

In the last few days, it's almost like that debate has been parked to one side, like it's no longer going to happen. But is it really feasible that the Democrats are going to pin their hopes on a guy that can barely string a sentence together? If anyone's familiar with my YouTube channel, I'm a single issue voter. Ukraine is preventing World War III. If Russia can succeed in Ukraine, they're never going to stop until they get everything. But they'll russify the people, mobilize them, and then use Ukrainians to attack a NATO country next.

Russia and Putin have declared they want their empire back. They want the caucuses. They want Central Asia. They want the Baltics. I don't think Finland and Poland feels safe. Poland spending almost 5% of their GDP on defense because they're getting ready for war. I agree.

The Europeans in Eastern Europe and the Scandinavian countries are screaming for the United States to wake up. And I've been waiting two and a half years. I've been waiting two and a half years. For Donald Trump to say one critical word of Vladimir Putin and he won't do it. Well, listen, Jake, he said in 2018, he's in love with Kim Jong-un.

I cannot vote for someone for president who says he's in love with Kim Jong-un. They wrote each other beautiful letters. He praises President Xi of China now. He claims they shared a beautiful piece of cake and China's not our enemy anymore. Well, hang on. The issue of Taiwan is removed from the R&C platform

for the first time in 40 years. But Jake, hang on. I would say, I would look at it a slightly different way. Trump has a very unique way of dealing with all these people, right? He's been very critical of China. He has been for 30 years. I used to interview him at CNN. Wouldn't you rather be clear than unique?

Like, he can just clearly make a statement that Vladimir Putin is a butcher. It was very interesting to me that none of the people... Any United States is going to oppose it? Well, hang on. It was very interesting to me, and it might be irrelevant, or it might be relevant, that during his four years as president, he never declared war anywhere.

He did get rid of some very bad people. He also managed to forge... The war in Ukraine continued the entire four years Trump was president. Let me finish. The war in Afghanistan continued for the entire four years Trump was president. This is a very weird talking point saying that no wars occurred while Trump was president. When he bombs the Baghdad airport to kill general... He didn't start any wars, right?

Let me, if I can finish my point, Jake, because he jumped him before he made my point. If I could just finish my point, please. To kill an Iranian general. Let me finish my point. Otherwise, you're answering a question you don't even know I've asked you. My point is that Trump had a way of dealing with people like Kim Jong-un, like President Xi, like Putin, like others, which, whether it was coincidence or not, turned out to be actually oddly quite effective. right? They did not do anything bad, very bad, on his watch. So in answer to your question about how he handled them, this is how he deals with everybody, right? But he's also been very critical about China,

very critical about China. And I don't think that makes him a weak leader. I would like an American president. I think an American president has to talk to these people. Bill Clinton used to do business with Putin, right? It's not like it's a bad thing to do that or to have harmonious relationships on a personal level. The question is, how does it impact the global security? I know that you oppose Russia and you support Ukraine, so I'm going to ask you the serious question. Was it a mistake for us to be doing business with Putin the last 10 years? Since Putin returned to power in 2012 and annexed Crimea in 2014, don't you agree it was a mistake to give them a free pass? The light sanctions we gave when they invaded Georgia, the light sanctions we gave when they stole Crimea. Let me answer

that. That was a mistake. Let me answer you. The single biggest mistake actually was Barack Obama having a red line in Syria, which then got crossed by Assad who used chemical weapons. I remember that. Hang on, Obama didn't act on it. I remember that speech. Vladimir Putin then wrote an op-ed for the New York Times, which was unprecedented, and Vladimir Putin then steamed into Syria, sided with Assad, and the rest is ignominious history. So if you want to know what the real problem was in all that, in terms of the relationship with Putin, it was because Barack Obama did not go through on his red line promise. And from that moment, Putin sent weakness.

He moved in. He took control. And ever since, I think he's been emboldened to do ever more outrageous things. That's the truth. I agree with you, Pierce. I remember that speech Obama gave to the nation in 2014 after the red line, after the gas attack.

And the left freaked out. Because Obama was president, the right wasn't going to support any additional military action. We were trying to get out of Iraq, get out of Afghanistan. We didn't want to go into another country. And Obama did his best.

He put in his effort, but with both the right and the left, everyone in the United States freaked out when Obama gave that speech. Nobody wanted military conflict in Syria. So we sold out our allies. We sold out the Kurds. This led to the rise of ISIS. Bashar al-Assad is still in power. Syria is a subordinate proxy of the Russians. The port in Damascus is their military port.

So, yeah, lots of mistakes have been made. but there's been political forces at play from the right and the left, and let's just be honest. Whenever someone's presidents, the other side wants to oppose them, anything they do, even when it's the moral or the correct thing to do.

So we can't have honest conversations when Trump is president because the left's just going to oppose everything, or when Obama was president and the right just opposed everything. I know Elizabeth has to go. I'm going to come to her final word, but actually, Jake, my question to you originally

was, given how you feel about Trump, then given the state of Joe Biden and given his polling, latest polls even more catastrophic than usual, what do the Democrats do to give you what you want, which is not a Trump victory, but presumably, even though you're a one-issue guy, and I respect that,

that one issue will be genuinely determined how that is resolved by who wins. Presumably, you want a Democrat victory, but who's going to win that for you? Can't be Biden, can it? So if you want, I'd like to make a sports analogy, Joe Biden is the Tom Brady of U.S. politics. The guy was first elected to office in 1972.

He won statewide elections seven times. Joe Biden won a national championship in 2008. He was the VP on the ballot under Barack Obama. He then won national office in 2012. Would you hire Tom Brady as your quarterback if he was 81 and kept falling over? Well, when you're 44, you are the equivalent of 81 in the NFL. Well, where I'm going with this is that Joe Biden has been a winner.

A quarter of our nation's history, he's been in government 52 years. We can debate whether that's absurd or ridiculous, but the guy keeps finding a way to win when everyone says he's... Do you think he's going to win, Jake, looking at the polls? Nobody has ever won from an incumbent president's never been re-elected with the polling he's now gone, ever. Actually, he can win. Okay, Roland. No, no, no, no, no, excuse me. Well, actually, I'll tell you what, I'll tell you what, but before, let me just say goodbye to Elizabeth.

She has to go and be ready very patiently. Final word, a little bit before you go. Do you see, I mean, do you think that Joe Biden is going to be the person that Donald Trump eventually has to go up against in this election? I do, actually. I do think he's going to be the person that Donald Trump has to beat in this election. I don't know how many options the Democrats have. I know they also want to do this smoothly, right? You'd have to do a very constitutional, clean transition to make sure to avoid.

a brokered convention to avoid the scene of chaos in their party, which they already can't seem to fight off, especially after that last debate. So I do think that they are, I guess, stuck with Joe Biden. Look, he definitely is not Tom Brady, but you never know what happens in American politics, right? I mean, no one thought Donald Trump would be standing here right now getting this nomination just a few years ago.

So anything is possible, but I think the approval ratings speak for themselves. I actually, I didn't even think Donald Trump would get this nomination 18 months ago, right? I know, and I wish I could have talked to you then. and yelled at you then. But I told a lot of people that this would happen and they didn't believe me and here we are. I didn't expect the assassination attempt, but I did expect him to be here

proudly accepting this nomination. So I'm excited for it. And as I let you go, let me just say in relation to Susan Boyle, obviously I did change my mind. You and Jady Bansmore. She also made one of the great comebacks of all time and sold 30 million albums.

God bless us. But you're right. The eye roll was a low moment. Elizabeth, thank you very much. I'm going to let you go. I know you're very busy, so I appreciate you joining us. We're going to continue with the panel for a few more minutes. Ben, discuss Joe Biden, the Tom Brady of politics.

I love it. I want you to stick with him till the very end. I think he's the best Democratic candidate. The Democratic Party has ever put up. He is the goat. He is Michael Jordan. He is Tom Brady. He is Roger Federer.

He's the Michael Phelps, damn it, of the Democratic Party. And I want him to swim. every gold medal and walk across that stage of the Democratic convention. And I want the Democratic Party to unite behind Joe Biden because he is great for the Democratic Party. He will lead them for the next four years. God bless Joe Biden. And let's get him all the way to that convention stage. Roland Martin Martin, do you agree with that? So let me walk you through this here. And that is this here. For the last 20 days, the attacks on Joe Biden have not come from. from the right, they've actually come from his own party.

Yes. And so one of the dumbest things in the world. Now, we saw Donald Trump lie constantly in that debate on June 27th. What you did not see was Republicans talking about all of his lies. They totally ignored it. So with all of that, you still have a very tight race.

The greatest, the fundamental problem for Democrats is this, and folks that want to deal with this, you have dim, power brokers who've been trying to get Kamala Harris off the ticket for three years. They don't want her to leave the ticket. So the 2028 battle is happening right now. Here's the problem, though. If you pick anyone other, if you take Biden off, you pick anybody other than Harris, you can't transfer the money, it can't transfer the 1,000 campaign workers, it can't transfer the 100 field offices. How do you build a national campaign on the fly in

in a matter of weeks. Don't you think, Rodden, the party machine, because the super PAC money can be transferred, right? Do you not think, do you not think the machinery could get behind another candidate?

No. Super PACs are not supposed to coordinate with campaigns, even though we know they do. So they can't do that. So you have to have a campaign apparatus. So the Democrats' greater problem is they're killing

their own plan. Hey, listen, when Disney was getting rid of trying to get rid of Bob Chapin, Disney didn't, the board of Disney didn't go, hey, let's get rid of Bob and don't have a plan B. Get Iger already lined up. You cannot move on plan A unless a plan B in place. So Roland, Roland, Roland, Plan A, Plan B, whatever. Who do you want to be the Democrat nominee to come up against Trump?

If you persuade Biden to step aside, the only logical person from a money and infrastructure standpoint is the vice. But who do you want that to, who do you want the nominee to be? No, I'm not. See, again, I don't deal in this Disney-Disfied world. I deal in reality. The only structurally, the only person from a money standpoint and an infrastructure standpoint. I get you. So would you rather have, would you rather be? Okay, so would you personally rather it be Joe Biden or Kamala Harris?

Biden has to the side. What do you think? If Biden does, listen. What do you think, Roland? Hey, Pierce, Biden has made it clear he's running. Unless you can, unless Obama goes to him and says, hey, Joe. No, I understand all that. I'm very, I'm very curious why somebody who's been one of the most, you're one of the most opinion of human beings I've ever known in my life,

which is a good thing. But why can't you just answer a straight question? Which one would you? Which one do you prefer? Pears, I've been making the phone calls. I'm looking at the reality of this. Would you rather it be Biden or Harris? Who do you think has a better chance to win him? I'm telling you right now, you miss what I just told you. Listen to me clearly, Pierce. If they move Biden, they're taking out Harris. And that will be completely detrimental. taking out Harris? I don't understand. Because they haven't wanted her anyway. They went to Biden in the last couple of years to get him to drop. Okay, but putting aside, all right, but putting aside all of this, who do you personally, Roland Martin, who would you like to see take on Trump

with the best chance of winning? Just give me a name. The best chance you actually have of winning right now is Biden Harris because of money and infrastructure. All right, fair enough. I got there in the end. All right. the entire party into complete disarray. But I can tell you, you're already in complete disarray, and Joe Biden cannot, Joe Biden cannot beat Donald Trump. And actually what happened last weekend,

all that did, all that did was submit that. There's no chance. There was no massive. Let me bring in, let me bring in Jake for a final word on this. Jake, look, I mean, look, it's a fascinating debate. I think a lot of Democrats, like Roland, are actually feeling quite tortured at the moment, because it's an incredibly difficult situation.

I think if they were able to get rid of Joe Biden and bring in and parachute in a very dynamic younger candidate who wasn't Kamala Harris, most of them would want to do that. And the repercussions, as I've discussed to you and your issue, are going to be enormous. Give me a name. Who? Me, I think Gavin Newsom would be your best bet. Honestly, I do.

I don't understand the aversion to Kamala Harris if the policy between Joe Biden and Kamala Harris is exactly the same. So for people nervous about having Kamala Harris people on me, because she's a woman, the last time a woman ran for president, she got three million more votes than the other guy. And that other guy was Donald Trump. If people are nervous about Kamala Harris because she's African American,

the last time we ran an African American president, he got five million more votes than the other guy. So I don't understand the freak out about Kamala Harris. To me, I'm indifferent. If Joe Biden's the nominee, I'm voting for him. if Kamala Harris is the nominee, I'm voting for her. I'm a single-issue voter, and as long as Donald Trump favors dictators and authoritarian around the world, I'm going to oppose him.

Okay. I'm going to leave it there. We've had a long debate. I appreciate you being patient at the start. Roland, it was good to have you. Roland, the good news is I'd love you to come back on Unsensit. It's been way too long since you and I've enjoyed it. Ben, always good to see you.

And Jake, your debut as well. Thank you very much indeed for coming on. I appreciate it. Thank you very much to all of you.