Piers Morgan Uncensored - Israel Invades Lebanon After Nesrallah Killed - With Mosab Hasan Yousef, Omar Baddar & Mohammad Marandi

Episode Date: September 30, 2024

Israel’s retaliation to the ongoing attacks from Hezbollah were obviously expected, but the scale of the destruction of their rocket-firing foe has fuelled the ongoing debate on proportional response. Israel’s pager attack took everyone by surprise, and over the last 48 hours, almost the entire command structure of Hezbollah have been killed; including Secretary-General Hassan Nasrallah. Now, Israel is apparently planning a ‘limited incursion’ into southern Lebanon, and the collateral suffering of the civilian population doesn’t seem likely to dissuade them. To analyse this expanding conflict, Piers Morgan talks to the ex–Palestinian militant who defected to Israel, Mosab Hasan Yousef, Palestinian-American Middle East analyst Omar Baddar and professor at the University of Tehran, Mohammad Marandi. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The fact that he calls every Muslim in the world untrustworthy. It says everybody who identifies as Muslim is a predator, compares Muslims to animals. He is not a serious human being, and you can see the utter bigotry in everywhere. I speak on the authority of the universe, that Iran and all its proxies and the Muslim world behind it, there is going to be only the language of fire. Iran will respond to have no doubt about that, and the Israeli regime will punish. For decades, Iran has been. used its militias to antagonize Israel by proxy and to protect itself from its sworn enemy,

the United States. That strategy has now been obliterated, along with Hezbollah's entire chain of command. Its leader, Hassan Nasrallah, was killed in an enormous strike on his headquarters in Beirut on Friday, an assassination has been 18 years in the making. You wouldn't know, though, from some of the commentary this weekend, but Nasrallah was a terrorist. He propped up Assad's murderous regime in Syria. He trained fighters in Hamas, as well as violent militias in Iraq. and Yemen. He ordered strikes on Israel in the immediate aftermath, October the 7th. The world is a better place

without him. But is it safer? Could a humiliated Iran decide that a nuclear bomb is now the only recourse for defense? Israel just announced that it intends to launch a ground in Kirshund into Lebanon, and it could start as early as today. Meanwhile, one million Lebanese have already been displaced

by the escalating conflict, which is one fifth of the entire population. The civilian death toll is rising. The war in Gaza rages on. Nazrallah has met a deservingly grim end, but the crisis in the Middle East may have only just begun. In a moment, I'll be speaking to the Iranian-American academic, Professor Mohamed Miranda, who is in Beirut,

but first returning to uncensored to discuss the fallout, the son of Hamas's founder and former Palestinian militant, Mossab Hassam Yusuf, and the Palestinian-American commentator Omar Bada. Well, welcome to both of you. Mossad, let me start with you. Your response to the killing of... Hassan Nasrallah?

Well, you know, Hassan Nasrallah, his hands are stained with blood, not only Jewish blood, but also Arab blood. He participated in the killing of hundreds of thousands of Syrians along the Russian forces and along Bashar al-Assad forces. This man has been or had been destabilizing the security of the Middle East, And this was the time to put an end for this bullying and this blackmailing and this act of terror. I mean, Omar Bada, are you sorry that he's dead?

Peers, before I answer your question, I think there is something that your audience has to know about Musab, who's on this program. If we can see if he's going to be able to control his temper and keep me from telling the audience this about him, is the fact that he calls every Muslim in the world untrustworthy, can't trust any Muslim, says everybody who identifies as Muslim is a predator, compares Muslims to animals, and the list goes on and on and on. And peers, I think both of us know that if anybody

engaged in that kind of bigotry towards, say, Jews, you would not give them airtime to appear on a program as if they're a real analyst who's here with something to say. And on top of these deeply bigoted views that he holds, there's also the fact that he is simply just not a serious person, you know, puts on this really dumb, put on, angry face and barks incredibly shallow slogans about Israel being wonderful and its opponents being terrible and terrorists and so on. It's not really a real point of analysis. With that being at the forefront, I'll say that I think what Israel did in Lebanon and is doing is, don't take my word for it. Listen to what Israeli leaders entails have said about the assassination of Nasrullah. They said they could have and wanted to reach

a diplomatic agreement with Hazan Nasrallah, but his insistence on ending the genocide in Gaza as a precondition to them reaching a diplomatic solution led them to choose to assassinate him and killing hundreds of Lebanese civilians in the process, incinerating entire apartment buildings. So in essence, Israel is choosing to incinerate Lebanese civilians to assassinate Nasrallah

because they don't want peace in Gaza. That is the dynamic that we have. And the fact that you can look at this and still not figure out what moral policy should be and who's to blame for this kind of path of escalation that we're on, to me, is completely mind-boggling. It is obvious that Israel is out of control. It's on a war path.

All right, look, you've launched a substantive ad hominem attack on your other panelists, which is entirely your progressive, and he can respond. You also failed to answer my simple question. Are you sorry he's dead? I look at it in terms of the impact on civilians, which in this case, I think his assassination has made things infinitely more dangerous. We're seeing this onslaught, so yes, this development,

Yeah, but, Amma, that's not actually an answer to my question. Do you personally feel sorry that he is dead, the head of Hezbollah? No, no, look, but that's the thing. I don't have individual personal feelings about players here. For me, what I'm concerned about is ultimately the impact on innocent people. Absolutely. Look, Nasrullah, if you want me to talk about his legacy, that's a really easy thing to do. He was a hero throughout the entire Arab world for having driven Israel out of South Lebanon in 2000,

for delivering Israel its first defeat in 2006. and then his record had a major blemish on it when he intervened in the Syrian Civil War for geopolitical reasons on the side of the government, and that upset a lot of Syrians who are essentially repressed and brutalized by the Syrian government to see that he has intervened in order to help them maintain power. But that was more a geopolitical decision more than it is a moral decision. And so he has a mixed record. A lot of people like him and a lot of people don't.

But ultimately, there's no question about the fact that he is a major figure in the region that has a significant fan base, not just within Lebanon, but throughout the entire region, and that taking this major escalatory step, when we've had the alternative, we've had the option of a ceasefire, and Israel chose not to take that and chose the path of escalation, and taking out a major figure is obviously pushing us towards further catastrophe. And it's materializing right now in Lebanon,

as we're watching Israeli terrorism, decimate the civilian population in all parts of Lebanon, and that's a really, really dangerous escalation. Okay. First of all, your response to the personal attack that was launched on you at the start of that. I'm not going to comment on that. I know who I am, I know what I am.

I'm not a commentator on the Middle Eastern conflict. At big it's by your own admission. I lived the conflict. I witnessed. I'm an eyewitness. I lived half of my life in what's so-called Palestinian society, and I spent the other half of my life with the Jewish community. When I speak, I speak on the authority of experience that is representing both cultures.

One culture is a culture of death that has been sacrificing children for political and financial gain. And Omar is coming here to the West, carrying the false Palestinian identity, hiding behind a couple of Western values, trying to manipulate and deceive American and Western audience by showing somebody like Hassan Nasrallah and Ayatollah and the rest of the proxy leaders, these people are reckless. They started the war on October 7,

and Israel had the right to defend itself. And Hezbollah has been luncheon missiles on civilians. They just killed 12 children, as the whole world is watching on a playground. And that was Drew's community. which is a great part of the Lebanese community. And no one leashed Hassan Nisrallah. How many times Omar and Mustafa's and Muhammad's complained

or protested against Hezbollah aggression, taken advantage of Israel bleeding in the South? I'm sorry. And he was totally mistaken. Hassan Nisralla today, this is his punishment. Israel is legitimate when I stand for Israel. Why do I stand for Israel? Because Israel is the most legitimate, ethnic group in the region with evidence, overwhelming

evidence to relationship to that land. Omar and the Muslims have been trying for the past 1,400 years to delegitimize and annihilate the Jewish people from that land. And they hate it so much that Israel is showing resilience and strength. You ask Omar if he's sad. Omar is mourning. Hassan Nasrallah is his hero. So let me tell Omar and his likes.

Listen, you cannot rewrite history. And when I speak, I don't only speak on my own authority. I speak on the authority of the universe that Iran and all its proxies and the Muslim world behind it. No, this is a very, very serious conversation. If they don't back off, there is going to be only the language of fire. And you can sit here in the world. The West pretending to value the Western ethics. You are a liar.

You're the false identity. And your religion. All right. And your entire population. Let me get a time. Let me call a time out here. Omar, you can respond to this. I'm going to just go to the Professor Morandi for a moment to get his response to this.

I will come back to you. What I would say, though, is you did choose to start the whole debate with a quite lengthy personal attack on Mossab. surprising he would return to favor. I personally would prefer, but that's the difference peers. I'd like all the guests to try and talk about the issues. Openly bigoted. No, there is a difference between me pointing out the fact that he openly says that all

Muslims are evil in comparison to animals and engages in all kinds of the worst kind of bigotry imaginable. And him just inventing nonsense and just leveling it at me. By the way, I'm a secular agnostic and pretty open about that. I've written about it. I don't know what he's talking about with the Mustafa's and Muhammad and whatever. Just you can see the bigotry in his engagement and about the Arab culture of death. In one breath, he says openly that the entire Arab world is made up of 300 million clowns.

That is a direct quote of his. And on the other, he's feigning concern for Arabs who die because of Hezbollah. I mean, just the entire thing is just a silly charade. He is not a serious human being, and you can see the utter bigotry in every word that comes out of his mouth. And the fact that he has no serious analysis to offer into this conversation. I want to come back to both of you and talk seriously about what is a very serious situation. It's been reported tonight that Israel is planning to launch an incursion, as they put it, a limited ground incursion into Lebanon, perhaps as early as tonight.

This is obviously a massively important moment in this conflict. So let's try and talk about that when I come back. I know I just want to bring in the Professor Mohamed Miranda, he's been on uncensored before. He's currently in Beirut. Professor, thank you for joining me. First of all, you might be asking why you're in Beirut. When the Israeli regime carried out a major atrocity on the first day of bombing, killing well over 500 people, I decided to come here and I thought it would be best to be here to help be a voice for the people of Lebanon. And actually, I was in a building where I was staying.

when the attack occurred on Sayyad Hassan Nasrullah and the six towers, residential towers, that were all destroyed, killing hundreds of people. It was about 1,000 meters away. I know that neighborhood well because during my sabbatical in Lebanon in 2011 and 12, I live pretty close, and I walk there and I drive through there. And the Israelis massacred hundreds of people

And in the West, you don't stress that. I think there were 83 missiles, each one ton. And it's unbelievable how immoral the Western elite has become that they're gloating over this attack. After a year of genocide in Holocaust and Gaza, and now slaughtering people in Beirut, day and night, after the attack on Said Hassan Nasrullah, hours later, they said they're going to strike three other places,

and they struck 12 or 13 in southern Bayr. People were terrorized. No one knows how many people have died. And this is, of course, the legacy of Western colonialism and the Israeli regime, an illegitimate regime. There's a paradox here. On the one hand, they are your chosen people. On the other hand, you're a secular Western political order.

We don't know what to believe when it comes to the West, On the one hand, the Israelis from Europe and other parts of the region and far less semi than Palestinians. They have exceptional rights. They can slaughter people. As they've done in Lebanon before Hezbollah was created, Hezbollah was created as a result of the Israeli regime's occupation of Lebanon and the taking of this very same city that I'm in right now, Beirut. It was created as a result of the occupation. And they drove the Israeli regime out. And the Israeli regime during the occupation in 1982,

they and their allied militias, they slaughtered in a refugee camp pretty close to where I am right now. They slaughtered 4,000 people within 36 hours, up to 4,000 Palestinians and sub-Lebanese. So this genocidal behavior of the Israeli regime began far before Hezbollah was ever created. Okay, listen, I gave you a long chance there to respond because I'm genuinely interested in what you have to say, and I mean that.

Hezbollah, as you know, along with Hamas, they are wedded to the destruction of Israel. And Hezbollah's response to October the 7th was to immediately unleash a lot of rockets at Israel in solidarity with what Hamas had done in Gaza. If you're the Israeli government, and you've just been on the receiving end of one of the worst terror attacks of modern times,

were 1,200 people killed with nearly 7,000 more wounded in an utterly horrific and barbaric series of attacks from up to 3,000 people coming over your border. And then the response in the north of your border is for Hezbollah to unleash a lot of rockets at you and then to carry on doing that for the next calendar year. At what point did you not think that Israel is going to respond? And whether you agree with what they've done or not,

not, the military success, and I'll phrase that exactly as I've just phrased it, the military success of what they have achieved against Hezbollah in the last 10 days by the Pager attacks on 3,000 members of Hezbollah, by taking out now the leader of Hezbollah and many other commanders by taking out the Hamas leader in Lebanon. You cannot dispute the military success. And what I'm curious about with Iran is where it's the response. You know, Iran, helped create Hezbollah, help train Hezbollah at the start. Iran has funded Hamas, funded the Houthis. Israel has now, you know, if you look at this purely objectively from the outside, from a military point of view, is having a lot of success against Iran-backed groups. Where is Iran? Why is it not

responding? Many people think it's because actually Iran doesn't have either the ability to take on Israel or the desire to. First of all, I think that you have to keep in mind that from my perspective, the Israeli regime cannot respond legitimately because the regime is illegitimate. Hezbollah wants apartheid and ethno-supremism to be dismantled.

In other words, something that in the West is very impossible to imagine all human beings in Palestine. Well, it wants Israel destroyed. It wants the destruction of Israel. That is literally what is... They want the destruction of this racist, political entity that carries out genocide and ethnic cleansing,

and it has been doing so for 76 years. The very same people who carried out the Nekba, they raped and murdered and expelled people. Most of the people who are in Gaza are refugees. These are... This is not a legitimate regime. Okay. But going back to my question...

question, Professor. Why is Iran? Why is Iran not doing anything? The world is watching and the world is curious. Yeah, first of all, Iran will respond, have no doubt about that, and the Israeli regime will be punished. Second of all, Iran will continue to support the Axis resistance. And Israel has not had any military success. The Pagers was a terrorist attack, and it was actually an attack on the West too, because these electronic devices, from now on, those things that have been produced in the West or countries that are allied to the West, their supplies changes, chains have been compromised. And the West is doing nothing about it. And I think lots of people are going to have second thoughts about buying any electronic devices from any of these Western countries or countries affiliated to the West. So the West, the Israeli regime is doing no services to the West by carrying out these terror attacks. It's interesting you phrase it as a terror attack, given that obviously, well, given that Hezbollah is identified by America, many other countries, as a terrorist group, and given that it was very specific in its targeting, you know, extraordinarily precise,

it is obviously horrific that civilians were killed in the process. But the vast majority of people who were damaged, wounded or killed by the pager attacks were members of Hezbollah, who are, according to America and Israel, a terror group. So that's how they would categorize it. That's not an act of terror. That would be under the laws of combat, they would say they are taking on combatants, and that's perfectly lawful and legitimate. That is their argument.

Yes, if it was pagers and walkie-talkies or cell phones that were in the United States, I think you'd have American bombers over countries who they would claim were behind it. So let's put aside the hypocrisy. But just to be clear, you don't think that Israel has any military right to respond to Hezbollah firing rockets at Israel. Israel does not have an ethno-s supremacist regime. Apartheid South Africa had never had the right to exist. And Israel never had the right to exist.

So it has no right to defend itself against rocket attacks. But it has no right to exist. Okay. came into being by displacing people and massacring. I understand your position on its existence. I'm just telling you, given it does exist, does it have no right to defend itself? Here, this is what you fail to comprehend.

As long as you have a master race, as long as you have a hierarchy of race, as long as you have one race that considers itself superior to others, there is not going to be any peace. That's just a fact of life. Whether it's in the United States, or whether it's in Palestine or whether it's in South Africa. It's not, there's not going to be peace.

For Iran, the dismantling and for Hezbollah, the dismantling, or you can call it the destruction, the dismantling of this system has to happen. And this is something that you don't accept, which is fine. You support racism. No, no, no. Hang on. Don't misquote me. Don't misquote me. I don't dispute for a moment.

That is the intention of Hezbollah, the Houthis, Hamas, all funded by Iran. I have no doubt that Iran, would like to see the destruction and removal of Israel. I get all that. I'm just saying that run... But hang on. I'm just saying that right now,

it looks like Hamas is losing, Hezbollah is losing, the Houthis are on the run, and their big backer Iran seems to have disappeared. And I'm looking at this thinking, this is odd. Where is their big backer? Where is Iran, who's been sponsoring

and funding all this terror? Where are they when the real action starts? And many people think, like I said, it's because Iran either lacks the capability or the will to try and respond to what's happened. That's what you want people to think. No, it's what people are saying. Well, that's what people are saying.

And that is a narrative that you wish to pursue, which is fine. But then you're going to be struck with reality ultimately. Ansar Allah is not retreating. The Israeli regime and the Americans have failed in the Red Sea. they, the Ansar al-Las survived seven years of genocidal war backed by the U.S. and your government against their people. They defeated the people who carried out the genocidal war. You think a couple of airstrikes from the Israeli regime is going to change anything? They will continue to enforce, as they say, Ansarulah in Yemen, enforce the genocide convention.

And your governments are the terror organizations. They're the ones that are funding this genocide. They're the ones giving the bombs, the bunker busters to go and bomb homes and civilian towers in Gaza. And whenever they carried out, the Western media will say, Hamas strongholds, terror centers, Hezbollah strongholds. Why? Because they want to justify these terror attacks. No, the terrorists are in London and Washington and Paris and elsewhere. since you think that somehow you're more civilized and that your countries are better than

ours, whatever you do has justification. No, the terrorists are the ones who are supporting the Israeli regime and who have been carrying out terror for a year. Hamas, Islamic Jihad, they are the native population that have been brutalized for 76 years, and Hezbollah has been trying to help them. They voluntarily entered this battle last year, Hezbollah, to draw the Israeli army away from Gaza so they would be able to kill less people. They are heroes contrary to what you say, and your government has been helping the Israeli regime to slaughter. They've been giving them intelligence, political support, financial support, ammunition, and of course the weapons they have and most importantly the intelligence. All of the five eyes and Western intelligence and the

AWACs that fly and the drones that fly alongside the Mediterranean, both for Gaza and Lebanon, they're helping the Israeli regime carry out its genocide. Isn't the truth about this that there's a massive geopolitical battle of will going on, where you have Iran, you have Russia, you have China dancing somewhere in the middle, and on the other side you have the West, and there's a jostling for power and position and geography. you see it in Ukraine, you see it now in the Middle East. And that Iran is sitting there in a really interesting position where it's seeing Saudi Arabia nudging ever closer

to normalizing relations with Israel. And if that was to happen after all the other Middle Eastern countries that have done that, it's pretty well game over for Iran's ability to destroy Israel and to destroy this normalization process. That's what Iran is terrified of. And that's why Iran has been so aggressive. funding these groups which I would categorize as terrorist groups,

you categorize them as freedom fighters, whatever you want to call them, they've been funded and armed by Iran, who right now is looking completely impotent in the eyes of the world. Now, you say they're going to respond. The last time they responded to an assassination, they fired a few hundred rockets that all got taken out by Israel's Iron Dome. It wasn't exactly a show of strength or might. And I'm not saying this to goad Iran into doing anything.

saying it is notable that Iran has done nothing. And it could be that Iran itself right now is feeling very isolated and feels that maybe the net is closing in on itself. Yes, you're very inconsistent in what you said. Right now, you're saying on the one hand is Iran, Russia and sort of China, and now you're saying Iran is completely isolated and afraid, which one is it? Let's be real here. This is not about geopolitics. That is always a part of everything, but this is about a moral issue. But you cannot comprehend that your governments are morally inferior than others. Your governments are terror states that are supporting. I've actually made no, I've made no comment about that. I mean, I was the answer to the same, well, I was the editor of the daily

organization. Well, to be clear, I was editor of the daily mirror newspaper when we opposed the British government, war in Iraq, for example, right? So, you know, when it comes to my moral view of these things, it may not be as simple as you think. I acknowledge that in our first discussion. And I will not refrain from doing so again. But your government carried out the dirty war in Syria. We know Jake Sullivan.

He wrote an email to Hillary Clinton on February the 12th, 2012, that al-Qaeda is on our side in Syria, a decade after 9-11. What about what Hezbollah did in Syria at the behest of Assad, a dictator? What about killing hundreds of thousands of Muslims? Did you have a problem with that? No, your government's killed hundreds of thousands of people because your government... Hezbollah did, too, with Assad's forces. No, you don't think that's true?

You don't think it's true? Come on, Pierce. You come on. Your government... Are you denying the Hezbollah got into bed with Assad and killed hundreds of thousands of people? You don't want me to respond because you know that this is going to be a problematic for you. Your intelligence agency in England facilitated the travel of young people to Syria to fight and to join ISIS. The same ISIS that according to the U.S. Defense Intelligence Agency document of 2012,

regional countries were deciding to create a Salafist entity between Syria and Iraq. And according to General Michael Flynn in an interview on Al Jazeera of all places, he said that the United States supported this. The United States supported the rise of ISIS and carrying a leaked audio. And all of this is online. He said we allowed ISIS to advance on Damascus.

So your governments are responsible for Syria. Your governments are responsible for Libya. Remember, we came, we saw he died. This was a sovereign country that your government destroyed. Your government supported the genocide in Yemen, now your government is supporting the genocide in Gaza. And the people of this region are saying... Would you categorize, okay, I hear you,

and you're perfectly entitled to your view. Would you agree that when you have a charter which proclaims you want the destruction of Israel, which has seven million people living in it, that is genocide? No. No one is talking about killing Jews. That's a lie.

In fact, many young... Well, if you destroy Israel, you destroy millions of Jewish people. And we... And fortunately... the resistance in southern Africa and their supporters across the world destroyed the apartheid regime in South Africa, but they didn't kill off the white population. Young Jews in the United States are standing up to this apartheid and racist and genital regime today.

And the fact is that the Israeli regime has exposed itself to the world. They have done more harm to the, they have done more harm to Jews than anyone else. They're the anti-Semites because they're carrying out this. genocide in the name of Jews and young Jews in your country and in the United States that are saying, not in my name. So they're the anti-Semites. They're the Europeans who came here, and now Netanyahu calls Palestinians Amalek. And you know what that means in biblical terms. It was the Israeli president who said that there are no innocence in Gaza. It was the Israeli so-called defense minister or terror minister who said, we're going to shut off the medicine and the water

and the food, and we're going to start. Shocking statements. I agree with you. And that's what they did. It wasn't, they weren't shocking. I agree with you. And the fact that they were able to do that. And they're still doing it. Now they want to expand it to Lebanon.

I don't disagree with you about the occupation charge because clearly only an occupying force or country can have the ability to turn on the tap of energy and water and so on. I agree with you. So that makes it a criminal regime that your government is backing to the hill. So what does that make your government?

It makes it a terror regime. So instead of calling our governments and groups in this region that are indigenous and all they want is Palestinians to be treated as equal human beings and to bring down this corrupt system, instead of calling them the terrorists, you should call those people who are the terrorists.

Okay, all I would say is I believe all Palestinians should have exactly the same human rights as any Israelis or anybody else, or anybody else. I completely believe that. Everywhere. Yeah, but I do not agree with your categorization of these groups as resistance. They are terror groups, but we'll have to disagree. They are heroes and say Hassan Nasra Lov was a hero.

Okay, he's your hero. To me, he was a despicable terrorist, but we will have to leave it there. Professor Marady, thank you very much to join me. I appreciate it. Thank you. Well, let's go back to the panel. I mean, Mossab, that is the Iranian view. He's entitled to have that view.

It's interesting for my... viewers, I think, to hear that view. But what is your response? Look, the Islamic revolution leaders, Ayatollah, and before him Ruhullah. They have invested some 40 to 50 years into their proxies. And that includes Hezbollah, Hamas, and other proxies in the region.

Now, what they see, they see the collapse of their aggression, the and the failure of many, many years of investment. What happened to Hezbollah is shocking to the core. The entire Islamists around the world are seeing the collapse of one of the most funded, equipped military force in the Middle East. And Ayatollah is not far from Israel's reach. He understands this.

This is why he retreated after the assassination of Haniyah. And by the way, I want to ask just a question. Who killed the Iranian president to begin with? The fact that Israel did not announce that did not mean that Israel does not have any hands in it. So Ayatollah and the other Hamas leaders in Qatar who think that they are immune to retaliation, they're totally mistaken. I said this from day one. and that's based on a personal experience with the Israeli intelligence of more than 10 years,

that all Hamas leaders will be eliminated with no exception. Hizballah, that was surprising to me how fast they actually collapsed. But the Iranian regime is a lot more vulnerable, and the Iranian nuclear program is ought to be destroyed. It's just a matter of time. There is no immunity for these people who have been, destabilizing the region, taken advantage of the chaos they create. Then we have the clowns here, what so-called experts, coming here in the West,

spread in false narrative of occupation and Palestine. And what I say, Palestine never existed, except as a colonial entity created by the Brits, lived for about 25 years, a colonial entity. It was never a country. It was never a nation. And today, when Omar and his friends come and say Israel is occupying force, I say, occupy in what? If Palestine never existed, how can you occupy something that never existed?

Okay, let me bring in. So now they keep on, no, no, wait, wait, wait. I'm going to let Omar respond. He will have his time. He will have his time. Now, we are talking about a forced narrative. We are talking about the forced narrative. Hang on.

Don't talk about each other. You've had a chance to have your diatri. Okay, Amal, you respond now? You're here. You're hearing Musab here talking about how occupation is all fake and made up and it's whatever. But it's incredible that when you look at what international law says, what the UN says, what the UN General Assembly says, what UN resolutions say in the Security Council,

there is a complete and total consensus on the fact that Israel is an occupying power, illegally occupying the West Bank and Gaza and East Jerusalem. The International Court of Justice has come out with an opinion, making clear that this occupation, is illegal and has to end. So while Musab wants to pretend that this is something that Palestinians manufactured, because he has nothing of substance really to say, the reality is just so obvious and so blatant that you don't even know how to address such a bizarre and ridiculous argument that this is something that Palestinians invented. Palestinians have been

there for literally thousands of years. There are the natural continuation of people who have lived in that land for a very, very long time. And yes, it's true. Palestine was never an independent UN member, for example, as an independent country. But, but, but, And by the same token, Native Americans in the United States were never also a, you know, did not have a state that is a member of the United Nations. It doesn't change the fact that they were living on their own land and that colonists came and take over and drove them off of that land and created a new state on top of them. So Israel was created at the expense of Palestinians.

And while you might talk about this militant group or that militant group or what their charter may say about the destruction of Israel, in the case of Israel, it is active policy that we're watching is to destroy Palestine. This isn't theoretical. We're not talking about what their charter says. We're talking about what Israel is doing. And Israel is committing genocide in Gaza. It is building illegal settlements in the West Bank,

using unspeakable level of violence against the Palestinian civilians there, and confining them to smaller and smaller areas. We are watching the destruction of Palestine before our eyes in a way that the entire international human rights community and international law says is completely illegitimate and criminal, and our reaction is to fund it and maybe occasionally criticize it instead of standing up to it in a really meaningful sense. And that's the double standard here.

Omar, what should Israel have done on October the 8th after the attack the day before? In a theoretical world in which I was the Israeli leader on October 8th, what I would do is take on the podium, acknowledge the fact that we've created an unspeakable situation in which violence is inevitable, and I would offer to instantly end the occupation of the West Bank, Gaza, and East Jerusalem to apply international law and respect Palestinian human rights in exchange for every person on October 7th who engaged an acts of violence against Israeli civilians to be brought before court and put on trial for war crimes. And who would solve the entire problem?

But that's out of the question. Who would have brought 40,000 Hamas fighters to court? Yeah, you don't need the entire 40,000 in the same sense that you don't need every last member of the Israeli military to be brought before war crimes because the Israeli military engages in war crimes. There is a path forward, and that's the thing, the reason why this is really out of question. Israel should not have responded. But you're seriously suggesting that Israel should not have responded to one of the worst terror attacks in history in any military way whatsoever.

You have to be consistent about this, peers. If we're expecting Palestinians to not respond in any militant sense to literally decades of Israeli atrocities and war crimes against Palestinians, why does it only work one way? Why do we say that Israel must respond militarily? But Palestinians are never set to need to respond militarily to decades of Israeli occupation and war crimes. is that double standard there? Because the argument, as you know, from the other side, is if you go back to 1948, that there have been a series of escalations in those 75 years with blame being attached to both sides, small things happening, which then trigger outbreaks of war. And it's gone on now for 75 years. And at the center of it is an ongoing, but it's my point. The center of it is an ongoing dispute

about territory and land. I get all that. But ultimately, you cannot have a situation where on one day, that volume of people are massacred and wounded in 7,000 people wounded and that Israel just does nothing. It was so far and away beyond anything anyone had seen in that conflict for 75 years in one day. Of course they were going to respond. Of course Hamas knew. Of course Hamas knew that would be what Israel would do.

So they knew what would happen to their own people and they didn't care. Iran knew what the response would be. And obviously knew what Hamas. we're going to do. Hezbollah's reaction was not to show a modicum of sympathy for any of the people killed. It was to launch a barrage of rockets in sympathy with Hamas, the terrorists who perpetrated it. And they've carried on doing that for a whole year, and they've displaced 65, 70,000 Israelis from the north of Israel. And at some point, of course Israel is going to respond. Now, what part of what I've just said is factually inaccurate?

it. Yeah. I think the entire framing that Israel is responding is at the fundamental core of what's wrong. I'm not denying historical. I did, look, the reason I prefaced it by saying, I said there had been 75 years of flare-ups and wars and everything, and you can argue about all the history as long as you want. What you can't argue with is the scale of what happened on October the 7th was so horrific. It was always going to get a massive response. Yeah, there's no denying it was a major attack. Sorry? Yeah. No, no, here's the thing, Pierce. This is not about tracing it back as a tit for tat. Well, they did this before, and those people did this before.

There is a status quo. It's not equal sides that are living on both sides of a border that are perfectly living fine and equal, and then one of them chooses to launch an attack against the other. You have a fundamental status quo in which one people rules another, in which Israelis every day, decade after decade, are free and live in complete freedom and democracy and so on. And you have Palestinians in Gaza who are living in a cage, not allowed to go in and out, have no freedom, have no economy, have no airport, have no prospect for a better future. Hamas was given governmental power from 2005, and all it did was spend billions of

dollars building a huge underground tunnel network so it could continue to wage terror against Israel. They squandered that money. You can argue to the cows come home, but that's obviously what they did. And they did it at the expense of their people. So yeah, you can claim with great cause by, by the way, that Israel's had an occupation which had never been permitted in the first place. But you can also not deny that in 2005 they pulled out of Gaza

and let Hamas take charge, and this is where we've got to. How has that helped the people? I don't think that's a correct framing. No, they withdrew in 2005 out of Gaza and then put Gaza under siege and made it a cage and allowed Hamas to govern this cage internally. They can be

the prison wardens of Palestinian prisoners. That's not meaningful governance. And then you have a serious debate about how Hamas spent its money. You can say that maybe what they should have done is make this cage a little bit more pleasant for Palestinians to live in, and instead they chose to devote their resources into breaking out of that cage by investing in military infrastructure. I'm not a fan of Hamas. I don't support them. I oppose their rule. I don't think they're a particularly positive influence on Palestinian society. But at the end of the of the day, when you're talking about a captive population that Israel has just put in a cage

and left to rot, it is natural that people are going to be drawn to more extremist and violent ideologies in order to break to that fundamental injustice. But do you accept, though, but do you accept? That's really the reality. Do you accept that you have the three Hs, the Hs, the Houthis, Hamas, Sazbola, all prescribed terror groups to many nations around the world, all of them funded and resourced by Iran? And do you accept that at some point, when you have that kind of concentrated collection of groups that are wedded to the destruction of Israel,

Israel is going to do what it can to try and save itself, right? You can argue about the history as much as you want, but they're going to do that. And what is inarguable, it seems to me right now, what I put to Professor Miranda, is that from a pure military perspective, it would appear that Israel is having enormous success now

in taking on Hamas, Hezbollah, now the Houthis, and Iran has disappeared. Iran is doing nothing to defend these groups that is funded for so long. Now, maybe they will. But at the moment, it looks like either they don't have the ability to properly get involved

or they don't have the will. And that could be an enormous transformative revelation for that whole region, couldn't it? Yeah, two things on what you just said, Pierce. I think the fundamental reality is that Israel is insisting on a situation of dominance. Again, this is not a status quo

in which Israel is just another country in the region. the occupation and ethnic cleansing and apartheid and the genocide now in Gaza are an ongoing process. And Israel has an option. It is true that this has triggered a reaction in the region in which militant groups and movements are emerging and that Iran is indulging those militant groups. They're not proxies of Iran just for clarity. Ansar Allah and Yemen are a genuine Yemeni group. Hezbollah and Lebanon is a genuine Lebanese movement.

Its roots are in Lebanon. The same with Hamas in the Palestinian areas. But it's also true that Iran is funding all these groups. by members of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard who trained them, 1,500 members, otherwise trained the Hezbollah to get them going. Of course they're a proxy. Yes, Iran is supporting them in order to get them going. But members of Hezbollah, who is just assassinated, was born and raised in Lebanon.

To me, proxy implies that they're not independent actors. They're just tools that Iran sent them to the region. That's exactly what I'm saying is, these are actors in the region. No, there are actors in the region that are defiant towards Israeli regional dominance, and because they have a common cause with Iran, Iran is army and training them. That's the dynamic. And yes, Israel has an option. They can start behaving within the bounds of international law and reach a peace agreement

with the people around them and with Palestinians that would then suck all the energy away from these fanatical groups that want to keep fighting, or Israel can continue massacring Palestinians and taking their land and insisting on pursuing a military strategy against. against new and emerging military threats. By all means, if you want to do it your way, you have endless war in the Middle East. Well, don't say it's my way.

Don't say it's my way because I see no plan, which makes much sense to me about what Israel intends to do with Gaza after this, or indeed what its ultimate plan is for Lebanon. So this is not my way. I'm just telling you what it looks like from the outside, which it looks like Israel is now on the ascendance against its traditional enemies over there. he's having a lot of military success.

Let me go back to Mossab. You actually predicted that Nessarla was about to be assassinated. You posted on September the 23rd on X four days before. Let's gamble. Anyone who predicts the day and date of Hassan, Nisraelis assassination will get an autographed copy of my new book, The Last Profit, $77 in cash. On what day and date, Hassan Nassala scheduled to meet Allah?

I mean, you were right. So putting your predictive hat on again. what do you think is now going to happen? If, as is being reported widely now, Israel launches what they call a limited ground incursion into Lebanon, where is this all going to end? The eyes are not only on Lebanon. The most important target,

and priority number one, is the Iranian nuclear program. This is priority number one. We cannot afford allowing any Islamic entity to have mass destruction weapon because they are not showing responsibility. They have been bullying, they have been intimidating other religions

and ethnic groups. The Islamic hatred against the Jewish people is evident. And of course, many people can hide behind the Palestine as a device to express their anti-Semitism, to inflict pain on the Jewish people after they suffered a genocide on October 7, which, by the way, by the definition, the only genocide was committed is on October 7. What's happening in Gaza is not a genocide. It's collateral damage. It's the use of human shields that has been justified by Omar and many advocates on behalf of Palestine who think that the use of human shields and kidnapping people and raping and looting and the calls for annihilating of a human race. is a form of resistance.

This is there, you shut up. You shut up, it's my turn now. So now. By all means, yeah. The thing is, they invert the narrative. They invert the narrative. Every time they suffer a defeat, they call it a genocide. And we say, no, there is a big difference between defeat and a genocide.

You started this war and you killed Jewish people in October 7 by the name of Allah, not by the name of Palestine. Then the entire Muslim world backed Hamas in a global offensive against the Jewish people, a small minority that is resilient to time with overwhelming evidence in relationship to the land, the only indigenous people to the land who did not oppose allowing the Arabs to stay in the state of Israel. This is why we have two million Arabs in Israel.

So now to accuse Israel of ethnic cleansing. Israel was established by ethnic-cleasing genocide. That's how they became a Jewish state. You are the perpetrator. You are the perpetrator. Why you are interrupting me? I listened to your false narrative all the way until the end.

No, no, no. So this is the time to sit down and listen. Carry on. Sit down and listen. Carry on with your nonsense. So this is your mastery, inverting the narrative. This is what you do best. You are the perpetrator.

Then suddenly you become the victim. And I tell you something. Iran will be punished. Everyone who is standing behind terrorism. Hamas is a terrorist organization designated as a terrorist organization in the United States. You cannot be American and supportive of Hamas. You say you are not a big fan of Hamas,

but you are a big fan of Hassan Nasrallah. Hassan Nasrallah killed many Americans, hundreds of Americans. Hassan Nasrallah is a criminal. Ayatollah is a criminal. And whether you come by the name of Allah, or by the name of religion, it doesn't matter. Justice must be delivered.

What happened on October 7, it's not about how many Jews were killed. We cannot agree to that. Nobody in the free world would agree on Hamas aggression that was documented by their own cameras. And of course, we will have to go after them. Otherwise, if I, to listen to you, Earth will be corrupted. If I, to just follow your logic that, Do you hear yourself honestly, Mosov?

Do you say, do you believe anything that you were saying? Or you just vomit nonsense nonstop? The war started 1,400 years ago. Your mosque in Jerusalem is built on the top of the Jewish temple. You go below the mosque and we have all the evidence. You don't have the right to delegitimize Israel as a nation. It's against facts. It's against the Bible.

It's against history. You cannot rewrite the history by keep inverting and spreading false narrative. Listen, I want to, okay. This is, you're going nowhere. All right, Mossad, thank you. Okay. You need to have the legitimacy first. Okay.

You must have the legitimacy as a Palestinian. All right, Omar, finally, very quickly, I'm going to wrap this up, guys. Before you try to delegitimize Israel. I just want to ask Omar the same question I asked Mossad, which is if Israel launches a ground offensive into Lebanon, what do you think is going to happen here? Yeah, just very quickly, I'm going to say that Mossab just, All he does is level ridiculous, baseless at personal accusations about what I think and what I do.

And it's just, again, not a serious argument. Israel was established at the expense of Palestinians. In order to create a Jewish state, they have to ethnically cleanse hundreds of thousands of Palestinians out of their homes in order to manufacture that demographic reality. That's just a fact. Now, in Lebanon, I think this grand invasion of Lebanon is going to be a disaster. I think you're going...

Okay, can you... Now, can you please keep your mouth just zipped while I'm talking since you made a big deal about you having time? Now, when we talk about what's happening in Lebanon, I think this ground invasion is going to be a disaster for the entire region. I think they're going to try to turn South Lebanon into another Gaza. I think they're going to engage in a massive, unspeakable scale of violence. And I think that even though Hezbollah's leadership has been decapitated, there are still plenty of soldiers on the ground who are far better trained than Hamas fighters. And so we are in for an absolutely bloody mess that increases the chances of it developing into a major regional war very, very significantly and seriously.

The level of atrocities that we're about to witness in Lebanon is going to be beyond the horror that we saw in Gaza. And again, the fact that nobody is restraining this fanatical Israeli government from this path of death and destruction is an extremely disturbing development that is really pushing the entire region towards the way. Okay, I've got to leave you there. Thank you both very much. I understand passions run high on this issue, but I appreciate you both coming together and debating this. And we'll see what happens. I hope you're wrong. Omar really do.

But I fear that things could get a lot nasty before they get. about it, but I hope not. Thank you both very much indeed.