Piers Morgan Uncensored - “It Was STAGED!” Ilhan Omar Syringe Attack + ICE Debate | With Brian Tyler Cohen

Episode Date: January 28, 2026

The biggest dividing line in politics and in culture is no longer right or left but to do with trust. And after the past few weeks, it’s hard to see how some key figures in the Trump administration can ever be trusted again having chosen scripted gaslighting over honesty at a moment of genuine crisis. Anybody who’d seen the footage of Alex Pretti’s shooting knew it just didn’t stack up. And the same can be said about many of the arguments put forward to, effectively, justify his death. Piers Morgan holds his latest debate on the subject with The Bulwark commentator Tim Miller, former ICE director Jonathan Fahey, Brandon Tatum AKA The Officer Tatum and host of No Lie, Brian Tyler Cohen. Piers Morgan Uncensored is proudly independent and supported by:  Melania: Step inside the 20 days before history is made—watch MELANIA, only in theaters January 30; get your tickets now!Oxford Natural: To watch their full stories, scan the QR code on your screen or visit https://oxfordnatural.com/piers/ to get 70% off your first order when you use code PIERS. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The gnome must resign or face impeachment. I saw the video. It does not look consistent with someone trying to assault another person. I think this was staged. Shut up, Brian! You can't tell me to shut up! Law enforcement works for us. They don't get to push down women.

I know the emasculated males are up in arms. Boop, boom, boom, boom, bobobo, 10 times! They're so scared! I'm going to shoot my bullet! Those are the masculine men? No, I'm sorry. The masculine guy,

was the guy standing up for the woman doing what men should do. A bunch of pussies shot him dead. The biggest dividing line in politics and in culture is no longer right or left. It's a lot to do with basic trust. Do you believe this person is honest? Are they authentic? Are they telling the truth? That's why podcasts like Joe Rogan have displaced the corporate media

and why politicians like Bernie Sanders are among the most popular in America. whether you agree with their politics or not. After the past few weeks, it's hard to see how some key figures in the Trump administration can ever be trusted again, having chosen scripted gaslighting over honesty at a moment of genuine crisis. An individual approached U.S. Border Patrol agents with a 9-millimeter semi-automatic handgun.

The officers attempted to disarm this individual, but the armed suspect reacted violently. Resisted. Fearing for his life and the lives and safety of fellow, officers. An agent fired defensive shots. Medics were on the scene immediately. Delivered medical aid to the subject, but the subject was pronounced dead at the scene. This looks like a situation where an individual arrived at the scene to inflict maximum damage. Where an individual wanted to do maximum damage and massacre law enforcement. Well, anybody who'd seen the footage of Alex Predy's shooting

knew it just didn't stack up. And the same can be said about many of the arguments put forward to effectively justify his death. This was one of the most popular. Number one, the Second Amendment is a right. I'm not a Second Amendment absolutist. You have the right to carry a weapon to defend yourself, not the privilege. It is a right.

Those rights come with restrictions. I think you would understand that more than anyone at this table. One of those restrictions is you have to have your ID and your permit on you. We don't know. Current reports are he didn't have either one of those on, at which point he's not carrying legally.

Fine, that's all true. But we know that he did have a permit for his gun, and the law says he has to show it when requested to do so. Where in the footage did any of the officers stop to ask him for his paperwork? And why was Kyle Rittenhouse a hero for not using his common sense? But Alex Preti caused his own death by not using his common sense. The only thing Preti was brandishing was his iPhone, which has also become a likely source of contention. I want to show you something.

Does that look like a gun? I think it does a little bit. It's a phone. It's black, like most phones. That's crazy stuff. Well, crazy stuff is correct. Many people were justifiably furious with Biden officials and liberal media personalities who repeatedly told them to disbelieve their lying eyes, not least about Biden's own health.

They were also furious about the idea that angry or white conservatives were domestic terrorists and the single greatest threat to America. Most of those people voted for President Trump because they were sick of it. They didn't give us the force as a mandate to repeat the exact. same playbook. Well, joining me to discuss all this is Tim Miller, the commentator with the

Bull Walk. Jonathan Fahey, he's a former acting ICE director, Brandon Tatum, aka the Officer Tatum, and Brian Tyler Cohen, host of No Li. So welcome to all of you. Tim Miller, it seems to me it's been a very significant 48 hours, actually, for Donald Trump, for his administration, for the wider public and for this issue of trust and being able to believe what we see with our own eyes because if you listen to what these administration officials were saying in the immediate aftermath of this killing, then this guy, Alex Preti, was about to launch a massacre

of law enforcement officers. When we could all see from the various clips that were coming out that that simply wasn't true. He was defending a woman protester who'd been thrown on the floor. He was then thrown on the floor himself. Yes, he had a weapon on him, but at no stage did he brandish that weapon or represent any threat to the eight ICE officers that engulfed him.

And in fact, they took away his gun and then they killed him. So given that we could all see that, I think what's happened here, which has been really pretty unprecedented, and quite fascinating to watch, is that Donald Trump has realized this has crossed a line. A line many people may not have thought Donald Trump was aware of or cared about. And that lying being, if you try and tell people that what they've just seen with their own eyes is not true,

they're not going to buy it. Trusting news is going to erode, and your polling numbers are going to get slayed. And ultimately, it will cost you at the ballot box. What's your reading of it? Well, I hope you're right, peers. I hope that Donald Trump changes course. I think we've seen some very minor evidence of that, replacing Greg Vivino with Tom Homan.

For me, I would have preferred that all of the ICE and CBP agents be removed from Minneapolis immediately and then taken off the streets and brought back to D.C. or to the border where they're supposed to be. Minneapolis is famously 300 miles from a border. And then they could reassess what a program would look like where they actually and after the worst of the worst, rather than menacing American citizens and menacing people who are here legally. And I do agree with you that the American people overwhelmingly do not want and do not support a government that murders its own citizens in the street, that unloads a clip

and shoots them 10 times, fires six bullets into their dead body on the ground, and then lies about them and smears them after they're dead. I think that the vast majority of Americans don't want that. you'll probably be able to find a couple of shills to come on and defend that on this show. But I think the vast majority of Americans say, no, we do not want murderous mass thugs anonymously killing our fellow Americans. And so I do think that that is showing up in the polls. I think you're saying Donald Trump's numbers erode massively, particularly among Hispanics, but also among young men, the libertarian types, the folks that really believed, they don't tread on me flag, the folks that really believed in the First Amendment, which protects free speech. which protects taping people in your community if you want to, as well as the Second Amendment, which protects your ability to carry a weapon. So the young men that flocked to Trump, I think,

thinking that he was going to be a free speech president or now seeing the truth. And I do think it's hurting him with them as well. Yeah, Officer Tatum, welcome back to the Sensor. I mean, the really frustrating thing for Donald Trump must be that a large part of his immigration policy has been extremely successful and well received. And I'm talking specifically about the basic closure of a southern border. You know, after years of Biden allowing millions of people to come in illegally, Trump has stopped it. That's a great win for his administration.

It's something most Americans agree with. And yet here he is now getting quite negative polling about his immigration policies. And I think it's all come down to this issue of how the ICE agents are behaving in these rural areas and these back-to-back shootings, deadly shootings, of protesters? Well, it's because of mindless people, like the gentleman that just finished speaking, is the reason why people have this perception that Donald Trump is somehow doing something wrong. They deported 600,000 people. They've deported people who have committed murder, rape, all kinds of dangerous and felonious crimes.

Also, they're deployed in all 50 states. why is Minnesota the only state that's having issues? And then to get on TV and say that a guy is observing the First Amendment and Second Amendment while he's at a protest assaulting ICE agents, Border Patrol agents. He committed an assault, a felonious assault against the ICE agent. That's how he got into a physical altercation while carrying a firearm without notifying them. What was he assault? Sorry.

When a Border Patrol agents. What was the assault? When the Border Patrol pushed the lady, he went hands on. That is a felony. You cannot do that. He didn't assault anyone. But Brandon, here's the problem. Is that not a felony crime?

Well, when you say what you witness was an assault. To physically assault a board a patrol agent. Hang on, let me finish. When you say what you witness was an, when you say what you witnessed was an assault by Alex Pretti on ICE officers, that is. not what I witnessed. Pierce, do you, because, maybe because you don't live in America, you've never done a law enforcement, you don't understand a law. I've got home in America.

I've lived in America on and off for 20 years. But I'm saying, you are not vested in American law enforcement. When you grab somebody like Pretty did with ICE agent, that is an assault, subject to an arrest. They had every right to take him down to the ground. He had a gun on him, knowingly, came with multiple magazines. But you should agree with that. I was defamed there.

Hang on, hang on, let me finish. I will come back. Brandon, I've spent 20 years. Brandon, I have spent 20, fine. I spent 20 years working and living in America a lot of the year, right? So I know America very well. I've covered a lot of these stories over the years for CNN, for others, for Fox, for others, everyone, right?

So you don't have to slightly patch. I'm not patronize me with. You're not from these past. I'm not patronized. I'm not America. I have a home. I've owned an actual experience of law enforcement is a big difference. And me finish. And be finished. I've owned a home in Los Angeles for 16 years. Okay. So I do understand how law enforcement works in America. I understand what the law is, right? I understand all of these things. But I look at what happens. Immediately you say that if you take a gun to a protest, but that's exactly what I've heard. No, when you fight people, when you fight agents while having a gun. I haven't finished my question. I haven't finished my question. For 20 years, I've battled about with the NRA and with the conservative right about this issue of guns in America. And I eventually concluded this is an issue for Americans to resolve amongst yourselves.

I respect that. It's your country, your culture, your laws, your guns. However, there is a blazing hypocrisy in this narrative that's been spewed about Alex Preti that somehow one of the problems here was he was carrying a gun. He was carrying it legally. The problem is not carried a gun. Under his Second Amendment rights. Here we go again.

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The problem is not carried a gun. The problem is getting to a physical altercation with intentionally and premeditated a physical altercation with ICE agents. I would never, I carry a gun everywhere I go. I got my gun on me right now. I would never confront or get in a physical altercation with any law enforcement, with a gun on me.

You learn that in a CCW class and as a person with common sense. Because what happens? Things get twisted up. You have the gun get exposed. They yell gun, gun, gun. He's reaching for his waistband. They think he has a gun.

All of that is going to be justification under the law because the perception of the Border Patrol agent that believed that he was armed and dangerous at the time that he fired the shots is going to be justification. They took his gun away. For anybody on this panel. Just like, just like, we literally see them take his gun off him. And then they kill him.

But that doesn't mean that the Border Patrol agent who shot him saw the gun being removed, Pierce. That is a part of the investigation. Brandon, Brandon, please, we've listened to this enough. For starters, your whole, man, your whole spin is crazy. This idea that you started your thing by saying this was justified because the Border Patrol agent came and pushed a woman to the ground. Why are Border Patrol agents, excuse me, sir, let me continue. Why are Border Patrol agents in Minneapolis, nowhere near the, border pushing American citizens women to the ground.

Brandon, Brandon, shut up for a second. They have jurisdiction to enforce immigration law within the boundaries of the city. What's the heck are you talking about? Was she an immigrant? Was she an illegal immigrant? Who? They pushed American citizens to the ground. We have rights. She is the entire Minneapolis police force.

Do you not understand law? Shut up, Brian. You can't tell me to shut up? You can't tell me. Shut up. Come make me shut up. Shot zero bullets all year last year. I'm a grown man. Zero bullets.

You want a problem with me? Works for us. Okay, so I thought. They don't get to shoot American citizens 10 times and shoot six bullets into our dead bodies. They don't get to push down women. What a work for us. They represent us. We pay them.

They need to use restraint and de-escalate. Okay, they are there to serve and protect us. Time out. Time out. Let me bring up. not to shoot guys in the back of the head. Time out, guys. They were citizens executing their rights and they got murdered.

And you're on here to be like a ghoul. All right. Like a depraved ghoul. He's dead. Time out, please. Time out, please. I want to bring in Jonathan Faye because you're a former acting ICE director. But first, I want to play a clip from Donald Trump about the gun part of this.

You know, he can't have guns. You can't walk in with guns. What about the Second Amendment? Listen, he can't walk in with guns. You can't do that, but it's a very unfortunate. Do you agree with the assessment from some of your own officials that Alex Freddie is a domestic terrorist or an assassin? Well, I haven't heard that, but certainly he shouldn't have been carrying a gun.

But I don't like that he had a gun. I don't like that he had two fully loaded magazines. That's a lot of bad stuff. And despite that, I say that's a very unfortunate. Now, the thing is, Jonathan Vey, you know, I've repeatedly heard Donald Trump say he's the biggest Second Amendment guy in America. right? How does that square with what he's saying there about this protester who was there had a lawful right to have a firearm and the ammunition? He's saying he shouldn't have taken it.

But that's a that's a repudiation of his constitutional rights, isn't that? I don't think so at all. And I don't view it the same way in that, yeah, you have a right to carry a firearm. But it also comes with responsibilities. I know Tim's rolling in his eyes there. But the thing is what the issue is, is here is this person injected himself in the situation. And I'm not going to come to a conclusion because I don't know what happened, but he injected himself into a law enforcement situation and he was armed and he went there. He didn't go there to protest, my understanding. These people weren't holding up signs saying, open borders mass to amnesty. He was injecting himself into a situation to interfere with ICE doing their jobs. The legal issue, and you don't just come out

and say it's murder if someone dies. The issue is, did this officer have a reasonable belief that his life or the lives or others were in danger of being lost or being seriously injured. And one thing, hang on a second, Tim. It's important from the officer's perspective in what's reasonable, and they are in this high pressure situation. And the fact that the gun was removed, that's a factor, but it's not the only factor because you don't know in these situations, does he have another gun or something else to make someone safe? So the question you want to ask, Did these officers ask recently- Did that ever happen when you were acting director? Did they ever fire 10 bullets into an American citizen?

Tim, Tim, if you could sell that a little bit. Did you ever do that? Look, did that ever happen in any of the cases you don't? If you're, are you performing or can I just ask? No, I'm asking. It's a fair question. Did that ever happen? You were the acting director.

Did any of your agents ever kill American citizens? Don't speak. Here, so are we here to talk about this or is it just revenge and debate a male? I agree. Let's not talk over each other. So I think the question Tim is asking is a reasonable one. I know the emasculated males are up in arms, Tim, but come on. All right. You're saying the problem is that the, I would say the person, excuse me, I would say the person.

Please don't talk over each other. Guys, you just called me to masculated mail. Please don't talk over each other. Guys, no one can hear you when you talk over each other. Okay. Jonathan, great. He answered the question that Tim. to perform. Please let me do, please let me conduct this panel. Thank you. The point Tim was

making to you, Jonathan, was in all your time as ICE director, acting ICE director. Did you ever have an incident like this where an ICE official put 10 bullets, or two of them did, put 10 bullets into an American citizen? I can tell you, I know a lot about police shootings. I was a federal prosecutor of 17 years. I've defended police and police shootings. And the way they are trained, and Brandon will confirm this, you fire until the threat is no longer a threat and then you reevaluate. So the fact that they're 10 bullets, you don't just say, you know, we've heard Joe Biden, remember, during the, you shoot in the leg or whatever, you don't do that. And that's not the way they're trained. So if the issue is the number of bullets, then the question is maybe they should be trained differently, but they are trained to eliminate the threat.

The question is still, I agree, an open question, was this a threat that should have used? deadly force and that needs to be investigated but the number of bullets is really not a dispositive factor and I know everyone wants to make a big deal about it but he was laying on the ground I want to bring in hang on hang on hang on I want to bring in Brian he's been waiting very patiently a Brian I think I read this week you've just passed you've just passed five million subscribers to your channel is that right I did yeah congratulations amazing he did it through the patience yeah it's great to have you on and congrats that's a big milestone.

So, Brian, you've been waiting very patiently. You know, it's been interesting to watch the big rainback. You've watched Christy Knoem basically chucking Stephen Miller under a bus. You know, Stephen Miller is the guy that actually tweeted about this guy being a potential assassin. It was him that fired up that narrative that he was a potential assassin, which was clearly completely ridiculous. Whatever your take on what we've all watched on these video clips, the idea that somehow

he was planning to assassinate all those ice officers. It's plainly absurd and offensive. What are we seeing here? Today's show is sponsored by Oxford Natural, makers of the optimum day and optimum night all natural supplements. Thousands of Brits and Americans are already taking them with incredible results. Optimum day boosts your energy and supports weight loss throughout the day. Optimum night helps you relax and get deep, refreshing sleep.

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Use the code peers and get 70% off your first order. You get 70% off with the code peers. We're seeing from Stephen Miller, from Greg Bovino, Christy Noam, J.D. Vance, Donald Trump, The same thing, frankly, that we're seeing on this panel, on this panel right here, which is this level of gaslighting and kind of narrative setting that, frankly, nobody believes. I mean, this idea for the former ICE director, my co-panelist over here, that Alex Prattie, this VA nurse, who was brandishing a cell phone,

was somehow a threat that even after he had six full-grown men, like these grown-ass men on top of him, that he needed to be, that the threat had to be eliminated by unloading his clip into him. I mean, you can say this and you can feel justified, and we'll have Officer Tatum over here back you up because there's nothing that Trump or any of these secret police or the Trump administration can do that will garner any pushback. But that right there is the perfect testament to why nobody believes what's happening here.

It's because even these ardent right-wingers in this country, and certainly the vast, vast, vast majority of independence, I'm talking three-quartered. of independence in this country are listening to this gaslighting and recognizing that it's not just a lie they're being told, but it's utter contempt that's being displayed by these Trump administration officials for the American people. Say again? Well, I would say, I would say, Brian, what did I say that was gasoline? That this idea that Alex Preddy pose some threat where the, where the response needs to be unloading his clip. I said, that's the question to be resolved. And it's not going to be resolved, because the reality is DHS is not going to invest.

any of this. DHS isn't going to investigate anything Preddy's going to do, just like DHS, just like DHS is not going to investigate Jonathan Ross because DHS doesn't investigate any of this stuff. So if the excuse is always going to be, if the excuse is always going to be, oh, don't worry, we'll just, we'll get to the bottom of this in some full investigation. There's not going to be a full investigation. So we just have to listen to the gaslighting being fed to us by Stephen Miller, Donald Trump, J.D. Can we talk about use of force policy? Can we talk about use of force policy? Okay, I want to just mention, I want to mention this day.

Hang on, hang on. I want to mention this stage. Look, I want to bring in the incident with Ilyan Omar because it's kind of connected to this. So, Ilean Omar was doing a town hall in Minneapolis. She was attacking ice, and then a guy comes out of the audience sitting down and sprays her with a strong smelling liquid

from a syringe. Now, that is a potentially extremely dangerous incident. No one knows. what that could have been. It turned out to be, we believe, harmless. He is wrestled away. But had it not been harmless, had it been acid or something else,

then maybe she could have been very seriously hurt or dead. Now, Brandon, what has concerned me about this is that from Donald Trump, and I think you have intimated this too, there's an immediate position by people on the MAGA rights that because you don't like Ilya Omar, that she somehow has staged this, it's not real, it didn't happen the way,

way people think it did. This guy was a plant and so on. And again, it comes back to what I sense is a complete eradication of basic humanity. There ought to be parameters between left and right. Well, we can just agree when something like that happens, we all say this is terrible and shouldn't be happening. Pierce, there is no jump to conclusion. I don't care about none of these people. They don't pay my bills. I don't have to say anything by Illinois. I don't really care about her. bottom line, and Donald Trump don't pay my bills either, but the bottom line is that I'm looking at this impartially. I don't know what anybody said. I saw the video, and it does not look consistent with someone trying to assault another person, which means I have never in my life

seen a person get up, spray something out of syringe at someone's chest. It happened to be nothing inert, and then she comes after him. You didn't see her back away from him. You didn't see a shy away from him. You didn't see any of that nature. And the guy didn't even resist. Brandon, you would say, Brandon, Brandon, you would say the complete opposite. If that was a Republican congressman who would be attacked. Brandon, if the guy going to jail just for fun? That's not true.

Is the guy going to jail just for fun? Is that part of the show? I just want to hear a little bit more about this theory. No, no, please, just one second. Let me explain. I want to hear more about this theory. That guy. I'm giving you the elements.

Is he going to jail for show? He's going to jail. I'm giving you elements. of why this looks strange to me. So why do you think he's going to jail? Is he like Antifa? Is this part of like some, is this the lizard people? Listen, was there anything in the syringe?

It was inert. There was nothing poisonous. There was no pepper spray. There was nothing in the syringe. I'm asking you why you think he's going to jail for this. He sprays her with the syringe in the chest. She goes after him. If you're afraid of somebody spraying you with a chemical agent,

you're not going to pursue them. He resisted not one bit. He goes to the ground. She says, we don't believe it, do you, Brian? You don't believe it.

I don't think that this was, I think this was staged. I don't know if it was true or not. I think it was staged. Can I ask a question here? Can I ask a question? What if Alex, what if Alex Prattie had had sprayed a liquid

onto this ice officer? Would you have, Brinzen, would you have said that there was no threat at all. It would be aggravated. It would be aggravated assault. And you would have supported executing him. No.

And just like you would have supported. No, that wouldn't have been justification. That wouldn't have been justification for the ICE agent to react, but merely holding a phone. Merely holding a phone is justification to react. Who said that it's justified for somebody to spray something? We're talking about a specific incident where a man had a gun. They had a reason to believe that he was armed and dangerous.

He was holding a phone. He was holding a phone. I'd like to talk about masculinity for a second peers. I'd like to talk about masculinity for a second. I would too. I would too. I would too. They did not have a gun on? Have you ever, have you ever done law enforcement? Any one of you, uh, um, um, emasculated men on a, on a thing, have you ever done law enforcement?

You know, have you ever used force to give you? I'm happy to, I'm happy to take this. Why are we? Why are they emasculated? Have you ever had to use force? Can I talk? Apparently, Pierce were, we're emasculated because we're not bootleckers for, uh, for, for ice agents who want to kill somebody. Brandon. Apparently, apparently we're emasculated because we're not in supportive of six guys jumping, six guys jumping on and murdering of a nurse. That's a real man, Brandon. Hey, Brandon, you're a real man.

You can defend six-fold-rored man unloading a clip into a nurse's. Hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on, please. Hang on, hang on. We can't hear you when you all talk at once, nobody hears any of you. Tim. Yeah. So I have a couple of things. On this question of whether I've been an officer,

this appeal to authority. I haven't, but you know who has? The Chief of Police of Minneapolis. No, no. Let's talk about you. Excuse me, Brandon, let me finish talking. The Chief of Police of Minneapolis gave a press conference. Brandon, let him talk. Well, actually, that's a good point.

We actually don't know the man who shot Preddy because the federal government is hiding him, so we don't know who killed our own citizens yet. Isn't he? But we know that the Chief of Police of Minneapolis gave a press conference after the shooting of Preddy, where he talked about how the judge, was irresponsible and how his police officers, every single police officer in the entire city of Minneapolis, shot zero bullets last year. They encountered real criminals. Excuse me, let me finish. They encountered real criminals, not soy boy protesters. They encountered actual criminals. They encountered murderers, rapists, assaults. Yeah, they did. They encountered those people. They were armed. They disarmed a thousand. According to the Chief of Louisiana, Minneapolis, they disarmed a thousand people.

year without firing a single bullet. These morons fired 10 bullets. And this whole thing about this definition of this definition of masculinity. Okay. It's like the really the tough guys are the six mass goons, pushing down a woman, pushing down a protester, and then getting scared. Oh, they saw a gun and I got so scared. And I've got to shoot my bullet.

That's what happened. Is that what happened? Ten times. They're so scared. It's so scared. I got to shoot my bullet. Those are the masculine men. No, I'm sorry.

The masculine guy was the guy standing up for the woman doing what men should do, standing up for the woman that got pushed down, and then in exchange for his bravery, a bunch of hussies shot him dead and unloaded six bullets into his dead body while he was laying on the ground. That's what happened. Those are the emasculated men. And I wish we had more men like Alex Pready, but unfortunately he's dead.

Okay, let me, let me bring in, all right, let me bring him, hang on. You never arrested anybody. You never carry a gun. You probably don't have a gun on you now. Quit acting like you born to break. If you were in a scenario, if you think it's called it is shoot people. Do you have a gun on you?

All the time. I'm concerned about your weapon, be honest. I'm not concerned about your weapon. Based on your judgment and how big of a whip. Brandon. I was a police officer. Brandon. How many people do you kill?

Brandon. How many people do you kill? If I may, if I may, if I may, Brandon, you don't have to be packing a gun to be a real man. I don't have a gun. I'm not the most people in my country. The who said that. The woossey said that. I'm saying that in order for you to judge a man who's making a life and death decision. Who's that?

In order for you to judge another man who's making a life and death situation, it would be a who of you or have any wisdom to be in a situation like that. I've been in a situation where I had to choose whether or not I had to shoot a person or not based on use of force policy and the threat of bodily injury or death. Did you do it? You have never done that. So it is weird for you to try to judge a person who's in that split second. a decision when you don't even carry a gun.

So how about you go on a ride along and do some training? And maybe you'll have a better perspective. It's pretty easy to judge, actually. The guy was laying on the ground. He was a corpse. And the guy shot him from a distance. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, six times. It's pretty easy to judge whether it was a threat.

And you can obviously tell that that guy panicked. He shitted. Let me bring in Jonathan. Let me bring in Jonathan. Jonathan. Let me bring in Jonathan. Look, there's a lot of movement going on here. Bovino's been sent packing

from Minneapolis Christian Lone's been effectively gagged a lot of heat on Miller and others for putting them up to the rhetoric they all seem to suggest it all come from Stephen Miller Trump clearly aware

that this is not working politically but you know ICE remain doing what they're doing in other parts of America they're deporting a reasonably large number of people although interestingly

less actually in the first year than Biden did in his last year, for example. So there are some interesting parallels here. It's not apples and oranges because Biden was letting a lot more people in. But in terms of actual deportations, it's not overly successful so far, but it is attracting and attracting,

I would argue, an overly negative context now for the administration. If you were running ICE now, what would you be recommending to Donald Trump about how they should conduct themselves going forward. Well, I sort of disagree a little bit with your premise in terms of how it's been successful. I think about 1.9 or over 2 million people have taken the self-deportation option, which is removing in which the government gives them $1,000,

and now they've raised that to $2,600. And so you put that on top of the $600,000 that have been removed and then nobody else coming in. It's been enormously successful. And the way, how do you measure success? Well, we have the lowest murder rate since 1900 in this country. That crime rates are down about 20% nationwide. So our country is objectively safer. We know that. We know people aren't coming in in droves anymore. And so you have to look at the big picture. We also know things like wages are going up. Because when you look at illegal immigration and you know from your country, it's not just something that has no cost to the citizens. It's enormously costly. immigration makes Americans poor, less healthy, less safe, educated. And that's not really even arguable. It costs $150 billion a year. And what's interesting just in tax dollars and not to mention all the other costs. And what's really interesting about this is everyone knows at this

point Biden and Mayorkas were bringing people indeliberately because they want them to be voters and they want them to help in the census. There's really no serious argument against that. It's very interesting that the Democrats' response to everything is always stop the deportations. They never say, hey, let's think of a good way to get rid of the illegal aliens. They'll never say that. So it really is a tell where they're coming from. But as far as what I think a good messaging should be going forward is focus on the criminals for the deportations, meaning for the arrest outside of the jail, focus on the sanctuary cities because one of the issues with Minneapolis,

It's a sanctuary city where they would rather turn over a child molester back into the community than turn them over to ICE. And by the way, Tim Walts wrote an op-ed lying about this the other day in the Wall Street Journal. So you have to wonder, is he even acting in good faith on this? But I think emphasize the criminals, emphasize the benefits from not having illegal aliens in the country. And also remember, deportations and border security are intertwined. because the reason people were coming under Biden was because they knew that second they set foot on American soil, they were all, for all intents of purposes, a citizen of this country.

So you cannot have those policies or people will continue to come in. These all work together. But deport the criminals, say who you're deporting why, incentivize self-deportation, and talk about the benefits of not having illegal immigrants. As you know in your country, it's a big point. problem. I get it. Let me bring Brian back in. I want to play a clip of Jimmy Kimmel last night. And to the people of Minneapolis, to the Freddie family and the good family, and these people who were looking out for their neighbors, we want you to know that we are

with you and you are not alone. Brian, apart from the fact that Jimmy Kimmel really needs to stop crying, I just wanted to say that as a general blanket observation that barely a week goes by when he's not blubbing. like a baby about something. Not saying he doesn't care. I'm just saying that it's getting a bit weary for me. But also, I don't remember him crying when Barack Obama was president.

As a clip doing the round today of Obama talking in really tough language about his own deportation record and why it was so important, he deported over 3 million people, no liberal friends of mine gave a damn or knew how many people he was deporting. He was putting kids in kids. ages, separating them from their families, all the stuff that people chucked at Trump.

But it was never an issue throughout those eight years. He was the biggest deporter of people in the history of the United States in terms of pro rata per year as a president. So there's been a massive double standard there. And I can't help but think that one of the reasons is the liberal skewed media, which it is, I've worked in it. You know, you could shoot a harpoon around the old CNN newsroom when I was there and not hit a conservative voter. that they just didn't care because it was their guy. And what happens this time

because everyone hates Trump on the left and the media collectively hate Trump. So they fire everything up. Then it becomes a huge thing. Then you have people going out on the streets and protesting because they've been whipped up by the media. Then you have these altercations with ice. Then you have deadly altercations.

And we're in the position we're now in. You know, I'm not saying they're to blame, but I'm saying that part of what we're seeing here, is something that never happened in the Obama years about this kind of issue of deporting illegal immigrants because nobody cared. And my question for you is, all right, we can have Jimmy Kimmel blubbing on TV about it

because he cares so much. Why didn't he care the same way when Obama was doing this? And did you care? And did you speak out about Obama's deportation record? Or do you accept that Obama pretty much shared Trump's view? Which is actually, if you're in the country illegally, then you should probably be deported because there are millions of people

trying to become legally immigrants to the United States and there are hundreds of millions who've come to the country over the last century who did it the right way. Look, I can't speak to what my thoughts were during the Obama administration.

I was in college, so I wasn't really paying that much attention to politics. But I would say in general, look, I am in favor of immigration. I think it's better for the economy. I also recognize that immigrants, You know, if we've heard so much about crime, immigrants commit, commit crime at lower rates than native-born Americans. So this isn't about stopping crime, because if this was about stopping crime,

our law enforcement agencies would focus on the people who are actually committing it, certainly committing it at higher numbers, but they won't because this is not about crime. That's just some fluency pretext that people use to be able to justify this. They don't always, they're not always able to find people who are illegally in this country that commit crimes. When they have a crime-committal stat is because they've been able to find the person and prosecute the person to some degree. People that are illegally in this country

have no identity. They commit crimes with no complete impunity. So the stat... I don't know what that means. I don't know what that means this idea that they don't have an identity also. Wait a minute, wait a minute. Do you think illegal and legal immigration

are the same? Look, of course they're not the same. Of course you're not the same. The reality is that this is not what... Both or do you believe in one or the other? But they all get treated the same. I don't know what that means. Just for starters.

If I could just say really quick two things in this point. Number one, right now they're deporting actually people that came the right way. They're reporting people that came here as asylees or refugees and they're sending them back even though they've been going through the legal process. Excuse me, can I just finish? They are asylum seekers. They came across the border. Illegally, they showed up to a port of entry, and they volunteered.

They've been going to their checkups with ICE, waiting for their court date, and they're reporting those people. So that, excuse me, just really quick, so those aren't illegal immigrants that are being deported. Do you support the right thing? The other people? The other people. The other illegal aliens, other than those people. Can I say one other thing?

I just want to say one other thing before you respond. When you talk about illegal immigrant crime, I do have one pretty easy, stat to point to. So far this year in Minnesota, illegal immigrants have killed zero people. The ICE agents have killed two. So two American citizens have been killed by ICE, zero by illegal immigrants. So that's the current crime stats in Minnesota. Kick out, kick out ICE or bring any illegal immigrants. Okay. Well, kick out the murderers, I would say. I actually want to kick out the murderers. No, no, great. I want to kick out the murderers. The legal immigrants. So they're targeted illegal the hell out. The guy that killed Lake and Riley get the hell out.

By the way, the guy that killed Alex Prady, you get the fuck to prison as well. How about that? We get rid of the, we get rid of all the killers. If he's unjustified in his use of force, you're madden up there. Let me ask Brandon. Let me ask. Look at what Jacob Fry is. If I can say what I think.

Hang on, please. Hang on, please. Guys, let me try and moderate the panel, please. Look at the objective criteria, not the hysterics. Let me, let me moderate the panel. I gave you a stat. Brandon, Brandon, do you think there's a lot of hypocrisy, given that Obama deported three million people and was very strong in his rhetoric,

as indeed Bill and Hillary Clinton were. The clips are everywhere, right? They all basically agree about the problem. I'm for that, peers, this is the question about hypocrisy, especially about killing American citizens. I literally lost my mind. Deporting is fine. When I went back and listened to what Barack Obama said,

what Barack Obama said about not coming to America, you would go to the back of the line. You didn't do it the right way. We're going to catch you and we're going to kick you out of our country. Everybody should be in lockstep with that. If you came here legally, we love you. But they are coming here legally.

Liam Ramos, a five-year-old boy, a five-year-old boy who is wearing a spider-man backpack, a bunny hat. You're not even talking about what Obama saying. His father was here through the asylum. His father was here legally. He was going through the process. So there's always an excuse.

You'll always complain. He was here. He was going through the process. He was the exact type of words. Please. Let him talk. He was the exact. Liam Ramos' father, the five-year-old child,

then why not help? Stop talking for a second. All right. Go. Shut up. A five-year-old boy. A five-old boy was used as bait. Brian, Brian, Brian, Brian,

make your point about the five-year-old boy. Then, Brandon, you respond. Liam Ramos, a five-year-old boy. boy wearing a bunny hat and a Spider-Man backpack, used his bait to get his father to come outside, he was here legally going through the legal process, the exact thing that Brandon, you're claiming you wanted to see, and yet he's now in the process of deportation. So the goalpost will always move. You'll claim that this is all about wanting people to go through the proper process, but then you've got people who are going through the proper process, and yet ICE still creates

deportation porn out of their process. He's and tries to give him out of the process. He's and tries to him out of the country anyway. Okay. Are you done? Okay, Brendan? Okay, listen, I want people to be very clear about this. You can come through the country without going through a port of entry, you're illegally in this country. You can come through a port of entry, and your asylum claim gets denied, and you're also illegal in this country. So two things can be true at the same time. They did not use a five-year-old to lure this guy. They already had an arrest warrant for him. He got arrested. He fled from them, leaving his child behind. They had to take the child into some type of custody for safety, the family refused to take the kid into the house.

They refused to take the kid back from the facility. So ICE had no choice but to have this kid in a safe environment because his dad did not care enough about him to take care of them. You guys are using a five-year-old for your immigration porn. It is not true that they lured that man. Listen, why can't we all on this panel say legal immigration is good? If you come here legally, you have broken a law. and you have to be deported.

Why are we against deportation of illegal immigrants? The two people in the middle make sense. Y'all don't have a solution to it. Pierce, I'd like to get in here real quick on the asylum issue. I'm for it. I'm for deport. Start with the worst of the words. Then why not encourage Minnesota to cooperate with ICE?

Because ICE isn't going after illegal immigrants. How hard do I have to say this? I agree with, could I? So they are trying to leave the illegals in and deport the legal ones? Well, why not have Minnesota give up the illegal immigrants that are in their jails? Why aren't you in favor of that? Or maybe you are in favor of that. I don't know. They're doing that.

The Minnesota Department of Crick is not working with the, that is a slight of hand. That is not, that is factually untrue. You can spazz out or do whatever you do, but that's not true. The jails are not turning people over, and that's a vast majority of people arrest. The prison system is, and that's the sleight of hand that Tim Walts is using there. But the jails are not, and that's factually true, and they would even admit it. Tim Walton is deliberately. Okay.

And you can spas out and do your little chick. I'm just trying to reply. But I think the other issue, all right, go ahead and reply, Tim. Look, I am with you. Criminal aliens should be handed over to federal. ICE agents or federal CPB. I'm with you on that. I would use your platform and tell them that.

Excuse me, could you let me finish? And if you have a critique about the way that Hennepin County and Minneapolis is handling that, that is a fair critique. And that is fine. And we could talk about that policy and what the right policy is. I'm also for deporting people that came here illegally. What ICE is doing in Minneapolis is far beyond that remit. They are going after people that have asylum claims that have not been adjudicated. They're going after protesters.

They're going after American citizens. They've jailed American citizens. They're going into neighborhoods. They're bullying people. They're pushing people. And they're murdering people. So if your issue is, let's deal with Hennepin County prisons and figure out how to work better with them,

then let's fine. You don't need to murder American citizens to achieve that goal. And so we can agree on that. I want you to agree. The American citizen shot dead. Let me bring in Brandon. Let me bring in Brandon. Let me bring in Brandon.

Because I want to bring in just an update from Polly Market about Christie Nome. It's quite interesting. We're following the prediction markets on this subject of who will be the first to leave Trump's cabinet. You know, almost uniquely, he's a year in and hasn't fired anyone from his cabinet yet. Polymarket has a one and a half million dollar market open, a lot of activity. As we speak, Christy Knoam is at 39% to be that first member of Trump's cabinet to be fired. She was just at 13% before this. the two deaths in Minneapolis.

I mean, Brandon, do you think she's on the way out? Is she going to be the first casualty of Trump's cabinet? I don't know. I think Trump is very loyal to the people that are in his cabinet right now. That's why he haven't fired anybody so far. But I do think that she's becoming incredibly unpopular on the Republican side. Now, I don't necessarily agree or disagree with it. I don't pay attention to what she's saying.

I don't care unless people are getting arrested and they're doing their job. But I do believe if she's not doing what she's supposed to be doing, if she's doing things illegitimately and it's not working on behalf of the country, get her sorry self out of there. And I believe that with anybody that's in the cabinet, I don't know loyalty to none of y'all. If you don't do your job, you need to get fired. And so if there's a fair evaluation of Christy-nome

and what she's doing and not doing, and if she's not doing what's rightful of the American people and she's committing a fraudulent behavior, fire her. I think we all understand it. Can I give you the Border Patrol response real quick, law enforcement and Border Patrol connection? because I worked in law enforcement in Tucson, which is a border state, and we work well with border patrol and ice. And there's a big difference when we arrest somebody and they are illegally in this country.

Now, local law enforcement do not have jurisdiction to arrest them for their federal crimes. But we do take them to the jail and we put them on what we call an ice hold. Therefore, they cannot leave the jail facility even when they're done serving for their city crime or their state crime. the ICE agents will come and verify them and take them. That keeps the community way safer because ICE does not have to go into the community. When you force ICE to go into the community and then you have idiots harassing them, doxing them, throwing stuff at them, blockade in their vehicles, you create an unduly risk. This is why ICE has patrolled or even Border Patrol and their assistant with ICE around the entire country

and you don't see people getting shot and no, hardly. anywhere else. You would say 99.9% of the shootings are in Minnesota. What? Yeah, yeah, dude, you do see people getting harassed at other places actually, not just Minnesota. Minnesota's just the only place they've murdered anyone so far, but they do, they've harassed. Who else? Who else? They jailed citizens in California. No, no. They shot people in Chicago. Give me the murder numbers. Give me the people who have been murdered by ICE. And then you tell me where they were murdered this year. Where have been two people murdered? by ICE in Minneapolis so far.

And then Renee good and Alex Freddie. And then they shot a guy in Chicago. A water patrol agent. No, Renee hit an ICE agent with her car. She got shot. This guy came and confronted and physically assaulted and had physical contact. I'm sorry. I can't do any more of this like apology of killer. You don't have to do anything.

You can't do whatever you want, man. Let's do not smear dead people. If this guy goes to jail for shooting pretty. It's shameful. What you're doing is shameful. You should be ashamed for. Listen, you don't get mad at me. I actually think it's, I think it's pretty instructive. You should, you should repent.

You don't understand the law. You don't understand the law. I think what Brandon is doing, I think what Brandon is doing is actually, I think what Brandon is doing is actually pretty instructive because the reality is that everybody saw the video. Like 85% of Americans saw this video. It doesn't matter. You don't understand the law.

So what you're seeing is not according to what they're going to be judged by. Control yourself. Brendan, try to control yourself. No, you, how about you listen? Try to control yourself. Try to somebody to know what they're talking about. Try. Just try.

Just try. Just try. Just try. like two seconds to not talk. Well, give me the law. Give me the law that he's going to be prosecuted under. Brandon, two seconds, man. Give me the law. He's going to be prosecuted under. This isn't a good, this isn't a good testament for how, for how law enforcement officials

are able to control themselves. Two seconds about talk. The reality is the vast majority of Americans, the vast majority of Americans have, Brandon, don't know the law. Brandon, just shut up for like two seconds. Where's the law? The vast majority of Americans saw this video. We know what we saw with her own eyes.

Even conservatives, even independents, know that what ICE was doing was completely unjustified that he was holding his cell phone and was and was bombarded by six grown-ass men who shot him dead and the fact that you're standing up here brandon just shut the fuck up for two seconds the fact that you can sit up here is that going to work on the show and claim you you're talking something going to work with me buddy give me to law what are you going to do nobody nobody thinks you're tough because this whole time you're pretending you're cosplaying is a tough guy while you bootleg for six grown ass men who jumped on a nurse and shot him dead this is not the You are defending. Being a bootlicker is not a tough position, my dude. Being a bootlicker for a bunch of grown-ass man who killed a nurse who is helping a woman is not the top position that you think it is. Gentlemen, gentlemen, gentlemen, gentlemen, I had hip surgery a week ago. Can I just say, gentlemen, I had to say it flared up at the start of this debate. It's carried on flaring ever since. And the only thing I can put it down to is that you lot have shouted at each other now for

45 minutes without drawing breath, and I owe it to my new hip to call and enter proceedings. But thank you all very much. Thanks, Pierce. Thank you. Thanks. Pierce Morgan Unsensit is proudly independent. The only boss around here is me. If you enjoy our show, we ask only one simple thing.

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