Piers Morgan Uncensored - Kamala Chameleon? With Clay Travis, Claudia Conway, Dinesh D’Souza & Cenk Uygur

Episode Date: October 1, 2024

Vice President Kamala Harris visited the US/Mexico border over the weekend, arguably to blunt her opponent's criticisms that she's weak on illegal immigration. The visit however is being called performative considering her tenure as the 'Border Tzar' under Joe Biden's administration, and many are pointing out that this could be yet another example of inconsistency in her policies. Donald Trump responded to her visit with an expected personal attack; calling her 'mentally impaired'. For a review of the Republican and Democrat campaigns under the looming shadow of the upcoming Vance/Walz debate, Piers Morgan turns to Outkick founder Clay Travis, influencer and daughter of Kellyanne Conway, Claudia Conway, host of the 'Dinesh D’Souza Podcast' Dinesh D’Souza and founder and CEO of 'The Young Turks' Cenk Uygur. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

30% of Democrats said they wished that Donald Trump had been assassinated. The right wing loves violence. And the minute that it touches Donald Trump, you guys look, oh, my God, it turns out why his dad. Hang on, Hank out of Trump. Pears, it's okay. He's your friend. You guys did a show together.

You're going to have access to him. Didn't the last time you interviewed Trump? Wasn't it kind of a disaster that he was furious with you, right? Trump is a super bright guy. You can't succeed in business like he has without a lot of talent. Well, he didn't. Tim Wall's a moron. He's a miserable.

He is an absolute moron. Six major bankers. He is going to get embarrassed. Walls hasn't done a single solo interview with a national media figure since he was elevated. Donald Trump is the dumbest man we've ever seen on in public life

and these guys are pretending he's smart. He's like, well, how could he be a successful? He's not a successful businessman. You are like a guy who got broken up with and can't get over it. This is, this is so deranged. She's a chameleon. Why don't you admit she's a chameleon?

All of you were chanting, lock her up, lock her up. She's our political opponent. You guys. You guys loved it. You loved it. Until this weekend, border czar Kamala Harris was last seen at the U.S.-Mexico border in 2021. She's previously explained her failure to visit by pointing out she hasn't been to Europe either. She also derided Donald Trump's border wall as a medieval vanity project.

But that was the old Kamala. Carmelian is suddenly getting tough on illegal immigration, and she wants everybody to know about it. But it's anybody buying it? Can a 20-minute photo op do anything to persuade the millions of Americans who blame the Biden administration of the southern border chaos? Unsurprisingly, Donald Trump's not convinced, in a typically understated fashion. He responded to the border visit by declaring Harris to be mentally impaired

and demanding should be prosecuted. But join me to discuss all this, and look forward to the vice presidential debate on Tuesday, is the founder and host of the Young Turks, Czech Yuga, the commentator Claudia Conway, the founder of Outkick, Clay Travis, and the director of new documentary Vindicating Trump, the conservative commentator Dinesh D'Souza.

Welcome to all of you. Well, let me start with you, Clay Travis. The border czar, Kamala Harris, suddenly seems to be remembering what her job was. I think it's a sign, peers, of how much she's in trouble, that she went to Arizona, that she has reversed every policy she's basically stood for her entire political career. Remember, this was a woman who, when she was a woman who,

was running in 2019, Pierce, didn't just say she basically wanted a wide open border. She said that any migrants that were being held in prison should get taxpayer funded gender reassignment surgery. That is, we should be paying in the United States to make sure that illegal immigrants are able to change their gender. I mean, this was absolute balderdash. This is madness. And I think this issue by itself, in conjunction with over 400,000 criminals, 13,000 convicted murders, 6,000.000. 16,000 rapists all entering this country and starting to wreak havoc all over the citizens of the United States. I think it standing alone is going to cost her Arizona and Nevada. I think she's going to lose Georgia, North Carolina, and it all comes down to whether Trump can win one of the three states, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, or Michigan.

I think he can. I think this issue is the single worst right alongside of the economy for Kamala and why she doesn't deserve a promotion. Yeah, I mean, Chink, the thing I would say if I was looking at this with no horse in the race, which I don't, despite your frequent attempts to claim that I do, would be that by going there now, it looks like political expediency, but it also reminds everybody just how bad the southern border crisis has been under the Biden administration. It's indisputable, the numbers don't lie. Surely it was a tactical error to suddenly go down there and pretend you really care

when you haven't been there in nearly four years. You're not biased against her at all. You just called her calmer chameleon. But, okay. Well, she is. I doesn't mean to sound partisan. She just is. She is a chameleon.

Okay, sure. You don't agree? I'm... Hang on, you don't agree with that? No, I don't. You don't think Carmelah... You don't think Carmelahariff deserves the title Karma Chameleon for repeatedly U-Turning on previous position?

Seriously, change? Seriously? So hold on. No, no, you hold on. Answer me. Peers, I'm not going to agree to your rando nickname for Kamala Harris. Do you not think she's being a chameleon? Hold on.

Can I answer the question? I brought up the issue that you're biased against her, and then you proved me right by saying, she's a chameleon. Why don't you admit she's a chameleon? Meanwhile, we have a mentally disabled person running against her, but we'll get to that. So in terms of the border, look, all of this is silliness.

I don't do the usual partisan stuff. So first of all, on immigration, the Biden administration did not do a good job for at least a couple of years in between the numbers have come back down now. But in putting her in charge of any portion of the border was Joe Biden throwing her under the bus. They had nothing to do. She had nothing to do because he wouldn't let her. And so I don't think that the Democrats have covered themselves in glory on the issue of immigration. I think going down there for a photo op and just looking at the border is just so meaningless. Every stupid politician does it.

It gains them nothing. The media shouldn't feed into that. But finally, I think that people have to admit, you look, Kamala Harris came to Donald Trump's position. I'm not thrilled about that, but that's a fact, right? And then Donald Trump said, oh, yeah, I don't want my own position because he wanted to help himself in the election rather than protect you guys. He cares more about himself than the voters every single time.

And there is no excuse you guys have for Donald Trump killing his own immigration bill other than his greed and his selfishness and his narcissism. Dinesh, your response to that. Welcome to Unsensitive, by the way. I think that Kamala Harris going to the border is part of a strategy in which she is relying on the media to do work for her. And here's what I mean.

The ordinary American is not happy with the way the country is going. And normally this leads to throw the bums out because the people who are in power are doing a bad job. But the one thing the Democrats have is virtual unanimity in the mainstream media. And so they're counting on a narrative that basically says to the American people, don't believe your lying eyes.

Don't believe your pocketbook. Don't believe the crime that you see in cities. Don't believe the hordes of people swarming across the border, the reports of criminals. Instead, accept this portrait of a new and improved Kamala Harris that we're going to give you, this smoke and mirrors, this Kamala at the border talking tough. So they're counting on this fictional portrait, this movie portrait of Kamala Harris,

to Trump, if I can use that term, the observations and experience of the American people. They're counting on the American people being complete and total suckers. OK, Claudia, welcome to one censored to you two, two debutants today. the American people apparently need to be complete suckers to buy into what Kamala Harris is now doing on the border. I think there's some truth to that.

I think that immigration is her worst topic, in my opinion. I think that the Biden-Harris administration, what they've done with immigration, has been abysmal. And I think that we can't really call her a chameleon. If we're going to call her a chameleon, we have to call Trump a chameleon

and J.D. Vance a chameleon and everybody else a chameleon. Because they're all doing, Hang on, I would. Yeah. Cheg wasn't smart enough or calm enough to ask me. You have done. So let me just, for the record, I think they're all pretty chameleon-like.

Trump has you turned on many things, right? So is J.D. Vance, not least calling Trump Hitler. So, yeah, I think they've all got a chameleon. It just so happens, and a boy George is actually a friend of mine. It just so happens that you only name Kamala. Well, because Kamala chameleon, obviously sounds very similar to Karma Kameleon, which was the big boy George hit with Culture Club. That's why she's called Carmelah Camelian.

If Trump was called Carmelah Trump, he'd be called Carmelian because it would go better with the song. That's the only reason she's got the name. But they're all quite comedian-like, in my opinion. It's true. Yet conveniently, you found no derogatory nicknames for Donald Trump or J.D. Vance. You just happen to find one for Kamala Harris. Look, I've just said to you.

It's okay. Pears, it's okay. He's your friend. You guys did a show together. You're going to have access to him. We get it. want Trump to win. Let's move on. I've said none of those things other than I'm

happy to say Donald Trump's been a friend for 20 years. Didn't the last time you interviewed Trump? So you did say those things. Wasn't it kind of a disaster that he was furious with you, right? Thank you, Clay. He actually issued four statements from the office of the presidency. He was obviously just out of there.

He offered issued four official statements lambasting me as so dead I was catching flies. So our friendship has had rocky periods. But ultimately, yeah, Trump has been a friend of mine a long time. I have friends, Chang, you may not understand the concept of this. I have friends who sometimes I disagree with

them. You know, you're one of them. I understand that better than anyway. I kind of like you. Let me come back to Claudia, be waiting patiently. Claudia, finish your point. Yeah, no, I think that her going to the border at this time is a little performative, and I focus on the Gen Z vote.

And immigration is not as important to Gen Z voters as it is to all registered voters. It ranks about 61% of voters rank it as very important. But with Gen C voters, I mean, they're not really looking at this, but I'm looking at this and I'm saying why. You know, her campaign's been pretty smart,

but, you know, back to what everybody else was saying, I think this was just like, you know, a little ploy for the campaign, for the campaign, just going to Douglas, Arizona and saying, hey, I'm at the border. You know, many Republican congresspeople were upset about this. Yeah. So. Yeah, I don't think it was a good move.

No, I just think it looked, as you say, performative. Clay, Trump's been giving a number of speeches in the last few days, which contained, you know, the usual greatest hits, but also some slightly insane moments. Let's take a look at some of the stuff that happened at the weekend. Joe Biden became mentally impaired. Kamala was born that way. She was born that way.

And if you think about it, only a mentally disabled person could have allowed this to happen to our country. Anybody would know this. I mean, Clay, look, I see Trump for what he is. You know, he talks in this way that it makes people laugh. He's entertaining. He's brutal. He's bombastic.

He loves insulting people. Is it a smart move that Trump to be calling Kamala Harris mentally disabled from birth a month before an election where she may end up being president of the United States? I think it's an effective attack. I think the word choice, as you well know, with Donald Trump, is sometimes the bull in the China shop. aspect of his entire personality. He is an entertainer that's at a rally. And I think it has to be taken in that context. But what I think he's getting at, which cuts through and does connect, I think,

with a lot of voters is Joe Biden, clearly, despite all the people on the left trying to claim that he was the best version of himself. And behind closed doors, he was sharp as attack, which was what everybody said up until June 27th, as you well remember. Look, Kamala is not actually able to cite some sort of mental and physical cognitive decline to explain away why she's been wrong on everything. And I think this is important, too. Do you remember in 20, I guess it was 2002, 2004? In many ways, George W. Bush won that election because he said John Kerry was for the war in Iraq until he was against it, and they got him on flip-flopping. Your comma-camillian line for Kamala Harris, I mean, just think about this.

She now wants to build a border wall. She doesn't want to ban straws. She wants to allow fracking. She now doesn't believe in reparations. Basically everything Kamala Harris has ever said in her entire political career, up until 2020, she doesn't believe in anymore. And I think that's what's going on here. Look, Kamala has been wrong on every issue.

I mean, I would ask anybody who's supporting her. Name one thing that Kamala Harris has done really well such that she deserves a promotion. Peers, on your show, I bet you've had production existence that got everything wrong. They probably didn't end up the overall producer of the show. That's what Kamala Harris is arguing for. Yeah, I mean, check, here's the thing, Chuck. I know you're pragmatic. You obviously don't want Trump to win.

I sort of feeling you're holding your nose with Kamala Harris. You don't want her to be the Democrat nominee, but she is. therefore you kind of, well, she'll have to win because I hate Trump so much. She's not a convincing candidate. I mean, she is a massive flip-flop, but she deserves the chameleon title. Every interview is full of word, salad, nonsense.

You know, with Trump, you kind of know what he is now. He served for years. We know him good, bad, and ugly. Carmela Harris does not, she wouldn't inspire me to open a crisp package. I have to be honest. Now, am I wrong? Yeah, so guys, you're looking at it wrong.

Of course, I think. But let me explain because it's a little bit more complicated. I think that Kamala Harris is a typical politician, and that's not a compliment. I think she's an establishment Democrat, and I think 90% of politicians are establishment Democrats or Republicans. So if you're someone who's on the left or a progressive and you think she's going to deliver unicorns and rainbows, no, she's going to deliver for our donors. So then if you're at home, you're saying, oh, my God, that means I vote for Trump, right? No, no. the reason I'm voting for Kamala Harris

is because Donald Trump is literally mentally impaired. He's a danger to this country, to our democracy, and that is not just a talking point. He's set to terminate all the rules, regulations, and articles of the Constitution when he didn't win in 2020. Yeah, but he's not

going to do that, and you know he's not going to do that. You know it's not what he meant. This is the problem, though. When you go after Trump. So this is the problem, Pierce, peers, this is the problem. Whenever we're talking about criticizing Kamala Harris, let me and everybody else go for 20 minutes and then whenever I say the first thing about Trump everybody jumps in to cut it off that's how this thing is so biased so let me tell you

Trump's you want to talk about mental impairment come on guys it should have been over when he said let's put disinfected inside our bodies he's a very very dumb man he didn't say that he thinks that clean coal is you take out coal and you scrub it clean he thinks the f35 stealth fighter is invisible to the naked eye like Wonder Woman he took a dementia test and thought it was an IQ test. The other day, he said that the audience in the debate went crazy for him. There was no audience in the debate. The man has significant mental problems. I'm not going to vote for a borderline lunatic. So that's why this conversation is nonsense. A typical politician versus a guy who tried to terminate the Constitution and is a verifiable lunatic. Not a hard question at all.

All right. Let me bring in, Dinesh. You spent some time with Trump recently for this new project of yours. What's your assessment of Trump now compared to, say, eight years ago, when he first came on the political scene, took everyone by surprise, not least the Democrats, pulled off the most shocking presidential win in American history. What's your impression of Trump now? Well, there are certain aspects of Trump that are exactly the same. I mean, you have to look at this guy as a kind of stand-up comedian. When he was making the lines about Kamala, you could tell he was getting the reaction that he was going for. And he's genuinely insightful and funny.

He has a good sense of the one-liner, and he delivers it almost to perfection. Now, the point is people said a lot of the same things even about Reagan. You know, the guy's crazy, he's demented. So Trump is not outside the mainstream in his political rhetoric. When Cheng says that he's a would-be dictator,

he will terminate the Constitution, and so on, all of this would be someone. What's scarier if Trump hadn't already been in office? I mean, the guy was there for four years. Already tried to terminate the constitution. How many leading Democrats, Cheng, did Trump prosecute and lock up? Let's compare that to the number of Republicans that have been indicted. Did Trump indict the leader of the opposition party and try to put her in jail?

People shouted, lock her up, lock her up. But did he actually try to lock Hillary up? No. No, before I come back to Chang to respond to that, I want to play a clip from Dineshi's, film here, vindicating Trump. This is relating to Trump being comparable to Caesar. Take a look.

You're not a normal Republican. You are massive entrepreneurial success in a builder. You built the New York Skyline. You're also a cultural icon. They fear that even though they know you're not Caesar, you do have that kind of dimension. You have that kind of power.

You didn't do an insurrection, but guess what? Had you called for one, there would have been one. And there would be one if you called for one now. They know that kind of power. They're scared of it, and so they're like, this is the one guy we need to go after by all means necessary. Well, I don't know if I have that power.

I'm not sure I want that power. I want the power just to make the country better. I mean, Chek, that would be my point, which is if Trump was going to do all the things you claim he's going to do, he'd have done them. Yeah, but he did. You guys pervert reality in a way that is amazing. You pretend that he...

But you said, did you stop saying you guys? Stop saying you guys. Can I? Dinesha's just said that. You just did it, Pierce. How do I not include you when you just did it? I literally said. You said that Trump wants to undo every part of the Constitution.

I'm telling you that is completely insane for you to say that. Utterly nonsense. You're insane. He's never going to do it. He's not going to do it. You know it. I know it. Okay, guys, let me just address the audience.

Okay. These guys are trying to brainwash you into forgetting the things that Donald Trump actually did. He actually did January 6th. They actually did rush the Capitol. They did get inside the Capitol. People did die. He did say, let's terminate the Constitution when he didn't win.

He did have a three-hour meeting about installing martial law and rolling out the tanks. Everyone is in administration said they would resign immediately if he did that, which General Michael Flynn suggested. He actually, when his chief of staff said, your fans are looking to murder your vice president, he said he deserves it. So you guys are pretending he did. didn't do these monstrous things, which he already did. And Pierce, if you ask me why, I'll never vote for Trump.

Yeah. Because he hates America. And he already proved it. When he lost, he said, my government, I'm going to smash it to pieces if I can't have it. Because he's a spoiled little baby. You're pretending like it didn't happen when it already happened. Had you read or heard anything I wrote or said about, January the 6th, you know exactly how I feel about it.

But you haven't. Why did you just pretend that it didn't happen? No, I didn't. You're like, well, he didn't do it. He did do it. Well, the arguable point, which needs to be argued in the court of law, is whether he inspired an insurrection, right? He vehemently denies that.

You say he did. And it is an arguable point. There was clearly a riot at the Capitol. Don't see that giant riot. There was a shame. There was a shame. There was a shameful riot at the Capitol that was violent and should never have happened. And I said that,

repeatedly. On that, I totally agree with you. But now you're back to the insurrectionist and supporting them. I'm going to come to Claude, I'll come to you in a moment. Clay, part of the problem with talking to people like Czech, you know, I love having it. A lot of passion, a lot of verve and so on. But once he gets talking about Trump, he literally goes mad every single time. You guys are nuts. He sounds like the very lunatic he's talking about.

America, Trump already tried to clue. Sorry, your name isn't Clay, Checks. Your name isn't Clay. Okay, look, he sounds a jelted girlfriend who's been cast aside. Look, let me say two things that are important here. For one, pre-COVID. I don't like any of them. Let's go to early February 20. I appreciate that, actually, because there are a lot of awful dumb politicians. We can agree on that. And in fact, there's way too many all over the world, especially in America. But let me start with this. February 2020, before, in my opinion, COVID leaked from a Chinese lab, which, by the way, you weren't even allowed to say because the Biden administration tried to censor everybody on social media, and now suddenly everybody's aware that that's the most likely outcome.

Although, Clay, hang on, let's say. On that one point, the biggest study was released quite recently, which did seem to suggest that the most likely cause actually was from the wet market, just for the record. That was the biggest independent study. I completely disagree with, I completely disagree with that theory. But let's put that aside for a minute. February of 2020, the United States had 1.4-ish percent inflation. We had two and a half percent mortgages. Black, white, Asian, and Hispanic real wages were up. It is the case that the American

economy had never been stronger since we whipped Pierce's boys back in the good old revolutionary war and became an independent country. It's when our king pulled a living in a better in a better, in a better, in a better, in a better, in a better, in a better, in a better, so a lot of people are looking at this and saying, and this is an economics election. Trump had the greatest American economy of all time.

Everybody was doing better. I think that's why so many people are yearning for that era in many ways. Second part of this, I agree with both of you. January 6th, when people write, whether they're Republicans, Democrats, or independents, there should be consequences and they should be prosecuted. Here's the problem. For six months, BLM effectively took over much of American cities and virtually nothing happened to them. Kamala Harris, the tweet is still up, raised money for the people who were burning down Minneapolis to bail them out. She argued we needed to defund the police.

many people out there who are reasonable, that are not Maga diehards, that are not Donald Trump absolute adherence, look at the way that our government responded to January 6th when Trump said, I want you to peacefully and patriotically go to the Capitol, which always gets left out. They look at the way the January 6th rioters have been treated, and they say, wait a minute, what about all the people who took over Seattle, Portland, Minneapolis, Chicago, New York City, Atlanta. All over the United States, cities burned, and almost no one took any consequences for it at all. What we have to get back to, in my opinion, in the United States, and what I believe the Biden administration has done really poorly is they have weaponized the Department of Justice against anyone with a different political persuasion. Pierce, you mentioned it. When Trump could have gone after Hillary Clinton, he said, I won the election, I'm not going to do it. When Biden got into office, he used Merrick Garland as his attack dog, and they tried to not only bankrupt Trump, they tried to put him in jail for the rest of his life. And in comparing him to Hitler, they allowed everybody free reign to believe that they would be a hero if they killed him. And oh, by the way, they don't even believe that because every time somebody shoots at Donald Trump or tries to kill him, Kamala gets on the phone and Biden gets on the phone and they say, hey, are you okay? We deplore them. this. If you really thought Trump was Hitler, you should just say it in public. You know what? I'm sad that he missed, which 30% of Democrats actually are, even though they won't say it publicly. They don't just dislike this guy. They want him murdered and cold blood assassinated because they are

crazier than anything Trump's ever said. Nobody's ever said that. Clay made that up. He totally made it up. Nobody's ever actually said that. Let me come to Claudia. No, no. 30% according to a poll. of Democrats, 30% of Democrats said they wished that Donald Trump had been assassinated. 41% of Republicans said it's time for political violence. Republicans openly have been talking about Second Amendment remedies for people that they disagree with. They've been egging on violence. Donald Trump laughed about how Nancy Pelosi's husband was smashed in with a hammer. So the right wing loves violence. And the minute that it touches Donald Trump, you guys, oh my God, it turns out by his

Hang on, hang on, Cheng, but Cheng, let me ask Cheng. I thought Clay raised a very good point there about the utter hypocrisy between the Democrat view of January 6th and the Democrat view of the BLM riots. Either you oppose rioting full stop or you don't. And the way that the rioters for BLM throughout that period were treated compared to the January 6th rioters was clearly demonstrably different, wasn't it? So my question is why? Why would they treat it differently?

Okay, no, let me explain a couple of things. So first of all, yeah, I agree that we need to be absolutely consistent. So sometimes people will lump in two different groups of people on January 6th. There's the much larger crowd that went and spoke, watched Donald Trump speak on January 6th. Most of those people did not go to riot at the Capitol. Then there's the people who rioted. So whenever it reaches the people who just listened to the speech, I go, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. No, they just showed up to listen to his speech.

They didn't do anything wrong. But when you go and you smash into the Capitol looking to murder Mike Pence and Nancy Pelosi, obviously you've done something massively wrong. Now, when it comes to the BLM situation, the original protests were like the original people listening to Donald Trump. They came out because they were deeply concerned about the injustice against African Americans in this country, and they were right. Then at some point, a smaller group of people committed violence. Police went to go arrest those people, and they should. Of course they should. The one problem that I thought persisted after that initial outburst was some parts of the like Portland and Seattle were taken over,

and the police let them do that for some period of time, and that was nuts. And so that's when I started saying, guys, this is not progressive, this is not the right way to go. We're not for lawlessness. And then, of course, Trump did it in a more spectacular fashion. Let me bring Claudia in. You'd be waiting very patiently.

You've got a unique kind of perspective here from your own family, where your mom obviously has been out there very vocally extolling the benefit and virtues of Trump. And then your dad obviously hates Trump with a passion, with a passion. You're in the middle of this. You've grown up around this. What's your kind of overview?

I'm in the middle of it literally and figuratively. I don't agree with anything my mother says about Trump. I think Trump gets away with a lot. I don't agree with a lot that's being set here, though. I think that there are nuances to rioting, especially nuances with the BLM protests. They were not handled well, but we had people rush into the Capitol,

and that's the Capitol. We have Donald Trump who... Hang on, but Claudia, what's the difference between rioting one way and rioting another? It's still rioting. Riting is using violence to get your way. No, no, no. Absolutely. I 100% agree, and I think violence is never the answer. And I think when we have these nuances like, oh, people can argue, oh, well, you know,

they were protesting Black Lives Matter and they were protesting the election. Violence is never the answer. I don't care really what you're talking about. Violence is literally never the answer. Back to my perspective, my father hates Trump with a passion. Your father is George Conway who's a lawyer. Your mother is Kelly Ann, obviously, who's a political activist and very well known. So just for viewers you don't know.

So just continue. Yeah. And the way I see it is, you know, I will be voting for Kamala Harris, but I don't like a lot of the things that she says. But the reason I'm voting for Kamala Harris is for the sake of the safety of our democracy. and for women's rights. I mean, Trump gets away with everything. He called a Kamala a mentally disabled person. He said she wasn't black.

He says, look at what happened in Springfield, Ohio, you know, with the schools on lockdowns and the threats. And it's ridiculous. And he's the only person who can get away with all of this. Do I think that Kamala going to the border was a political stunt? Absolutely. But when I weigh the two, to me, it's not comparable. You know, the rhetoric is not comparable.

The rhetoric, the precedent of a president's rhetoric is so important. And the rhetoric we have in this country, I'm in this conversation right now. It's ridiculous. You say that, but Carmelah Harris used phrases like Trump was the enemy of democracy, that Biden said he had to be stopped. And then two people in the last two and a half months have taken that seriously, and they've tried to stop him by assassinating him. And in the second case, we know from a note that the second shooter made

or he was planning to shoot him, that he was using exact phraseology from Kamala Harris, literally repeating it in his note. So you say the rhetoric is only bad if it's from Trump, or much worse, but it's the rhetoric from... Oh, no, no, no, not at all. But the Democrat rhetoric about Trump

has clearly whipped at least two people with unhinged brains into trying to kill him. Ridiculous. Well, that, in my opinion, is disgusting. I completely condemn the assassination attempts on former President Donald Trump. But when

I talk about rhetoric, I'm talking about both sides. I'm not just talking about Donald Trump and the things he says. I'm talking about both sides. This back and forth, this nasty, this game that they're playing with American voters, I think is abhorrent. I can criticize both sides, but when we look at the rhetoric of Donald Trump compared to the rhetoric of Kamala Harris and Joe Biden, it's not comparable. You know, Kamala Harris and Joe Biden, maybe they shouldn't say he's a threat to democracy, which he tried to overturn the 2020 election, so there is some nuance there. But We have Donald Trump saying heinous things constantly. So, yes, we can criticize both sides, but it's not comparable.

Yeah, Dinesh, I want to bring you in on that. Yeah, I'd like to jump in because I think that when we are trying to look at someone's character, it doesn't just, or actually not even primarily come down to, quote, rhetoric. You have to look at someone's character by their actions, both in the public sphere and personal. Now, look at Trump. Here he is, and Clay mentioned this roaring economy that would have almost inevitably led Trump to re-election. But then you have his advisors come to him and say to him,

the men in the white coats, there's a pandemic. You need to at least temporarily shut down the economy, and Trump has got to have known, and he did know, that if I shut down the economy, I'm actually shutting down my own economy. I'm jeopardizing my own chances of re-election, and yet he did it. So is that consistent with the idea

that you've got this selfish guy who only cares about his own political prospects, doesn't care about the country. I would say no. That's actually a very good point. You talked about the assassination attempts. The assassination attempts. I mean, you can shake your head,

but that's a very good point. Anyway, back to Dinesh. No. Well, Trump, look at the way in which Trump has responded to both assassination attempts. I mean, this level of bravery, I think, is unmatched by anyone,

certainly in the political arena, but maybe even alive today? Who is a guy who, when he's being dragged down by the Secret Service, pulls himself up, not knowing if there are more shooters, more shots and shouts, fight, fight, fight, fight? Who is a guy who upon a second assassination attempt where there is a man, evidently, a few holes down, who has been trying to kill you, and you are a little annoyed that you've been interrupted in your golf game because you were just about to make an amazing putt? I mean, I don't know anyone alive would react to these kinds of terrifying situations in this way. It's clearly a window into his character.

I completely agree. Whether you love him or hate him, you cannot dispute that Trump has shown huge personal courage when he's literally come under fire. Cheykeg, I want to play you a different clip. This is from John Kerry, obviously, former Democrat Grandee. He took part of the World Economic Forum panel on Green Energy. And near the end of the panel, a member of the audience asked what could be done to push back against disinformation surrounding climate change online.

And he said this. There's a lot of discussion now about how you curb those entities in order to guarantee that you're going to have some accountability on facts, etc. But look, if people go to only one source and the source they go to is sick and, you know, has an agenda and they're putting out disinformation, our First Amendment stands as a major block to the ability to be able to just, you know, hammer it out of existence. I thought that was an extraordinary thing to say out loud, Chang.

I mean, you got a guy who was nearly President of the United States basically saying the First Amendment is a real problem. No. So, first of all, look, the establishment has a certain agenda and they put out a massive amount of propaganda to, you know, back that in mainstream media. and then if anybody opposes it from the so-called populist right and the actual populist left, they hammer it down.

But in this case, John Kerry was saying, hey, look, the guys like Dinesh D'Souza do these outrageous lies like 2,000 mules, but there's not much we could do about it because of the First Amendment. So he's not saying get rid of the First Amendment, he never said that. And by the way, if he did say that, I would be 100% opposed to him. No, no, he said he was a problem. Meanwhile, on the right wing, they're saying arrest all the proclamation. protesters who protest Israel. Donald Trump is saying, hey, Google and Facebook, I'm going to imprison you guys because

I don't like what you're doing. Washington Post, he threatened to shut them down because they criticized them. He doesn't believe in the First Amendment. He doesn't believe in any of the Constitution. That's why he thought about and he declared out loud that we should terminate the entire Constitution. So if I thought John Kerry was 10% of Donald Trump and how much he hated the Constitution, then I would be opposed to John Kerry.

But I don't think he said that at all. Clay, I thought it was a pretty sinister thing for him to say, actually. I agree with you, Pears. And I got a couple of things here. One, to me, and I respect Claudia's opinion, I respect Sanks, even though he probably doesn't respect mine or Dinesh's, because I believe in the First Amendment. And I believe it is the single most important right

that we have in the United States. And I believe that if you're only going to be a single-issue voter, to me, supporting the candidate who endorses the marketplace of I. to the largest degree is the candidate you should be voting for, and that is clearly Donald Trump here. Kamala Harris. Kamala has said that there needs to be more censorship. No, no. Kamala Harris has said that there needs to be more censorship. She demanded that Donald Trump not be allowed to have a Twitter account. Even Elizabeth Warren wasn't willing to go that far. She is radical when it comes to restricting speech. Let me also build on something DeNesh said, because I think it's important,

because I think it goes to the heart of the argument that somehow Trump is going to be a dictator. In any of our lives, there has never been a point in time when the American public as a whole has more relinquished its freedoms than in the early days of COVID. In March and April and May of 2020, the amount of power that was undertaken by the federal government and was voluntarily relinquished by the American public to a large extent was scary. I want to hammer this because I think it's so important. There has never been a point in time in any of our lives, maybe other than right after 9-11, when a president could have adopted more dictatorial powers and taken a greater expansive

role of control over the entire country. What did Donald Trump do then? He deferred to every governor and every mayor and let them determine, based on the results in their communities and their states what the rule should be for COVID. In my opinion, Trump actually deferred far too much to lunatics like Gavin Newsom and Cuomo, who were locking down their states like crazy, but he allowed the Ron DeSantis and the Brian Kemp's of the world in Florida and Georgia to make different decisions. That's the goal of federalism is to have 50 state laboratories. At a time, compare it to what Joe Biden did when he came into office. He said, if you don't get the COVID shot, I'm going to fire you. He said that schools needed to remain close because it

wasn't safe. Biden actually took far more dictatorial powers during COVID than Trump did, and the left cheered him on. Again, if Trump wanted to be a dictator, there's never been a time in any of our lives for multi months where a dictator could have taken over more, and he deferred. He let every governor and mayor make their own decision. That to me is the ultimate test on how much Howard Trump will have. He could have taken more than anybody ever has, and he relinquished it. Okay. Just to pivot quickly, running out of time, but Clay, you start with this, which is the VP debate on Tuesday, obviously waltz against Vance. Are you concerned that J.D. Vance, it might be a rough night for him? For J.D.? No, I think Tim Walz, in all honesty, peers, is the dumbest person

who has ever been on American presidential ticket in my life. I think the challenge that JD Vance is going to have. JD, whatever you think about him is a super, no, Trump is a super bright guy. You can't succeed in business like he has without a lot of talent. But he didn't. Tim Wall's a moron. He's a miserable failure in business. He is going to get embarrassed, I think.

And the thing that JD Vance is going to be, pay attention to this, Pierce, the thing that J.D. Vance is going to have to be careful of is that he doesn't pummel Tim Walls so much that people start feeling bad for him. Walls hasn't done a single solo interview with the national media figure since he was elevated. This is a guy whose wife bragged about leaving the windows open so they could smell the burning rubber of Minneapolis. This is a guy who lied about his military service, who is utterly unqualified to be a heartbeat away from the presidency of everybody on tickets. I don't think Kamala is qualified. I think Tim Wall's her worst decision. She should have taken

Josh Shapiro. I think he's going to get embarrassed on Tuesday night. Chink, the dumbest, the dumbest we've seen apparently, Tim Maltz? Yeah. So look, guys, you guys live in an amazing imaginary world. They're like, if Trump wanted to be dictator, he would probably, if he lost an election, have somebody or a lot of people rush to Capitol and then not stop them, even as they're trying to murder his vice president, and he would try to terminate the custody. He did do that. He did all of that. And you guys don't acknowledge it. First Amendment. Kamala Harris has never said anything against the First Amendment.

Donald Trump threatens to stay in prison anyone who criticizes him. You guys live in a delusional, imaginary world. So in your world, what person has Donald Trump ever prosecuted as a Democrat? Shouldn't you be able to point to at least one? No, by the way, you know who's prosecuting Democrats? Joe Biden. I got no love for Joe Biden, but he went after Senator Menendez, his at least the federal authorities. No, no, no.

I'm not talking about Joe Biden. I'm saying if you're going to say Trump is going to try to put his political adversaries in prison names. Hold on. Clay, let me answer the question. Clay, let me answer the question. You know why the federal government, the FBI, Justice Department, goes after someone? When they have evidence. Okay, so Trump says, I want Jeff Bezos arrested because of Washington Post.

Hold on. Why don't they go after Joe Biden for classified documents? And then he goes, hold on, let me answer the question. Then he goes to the Department of Justice. And they go, yeah, but what evidence do you have against him? He was mean to me. And they're like, no, we're not going to prosecute him because he was mean to you. Grow up, you little child.

So which leads us back to the debate. So we're talking about Tim Walls being unintelligent. Are you crazy? You're acknowledging, hold on, that he never has prosecuted any political adversary. Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. Okay, what he's the one who was, who's came up with a lock her up chant. You guys again, pretend it didn't happen when all of you were chanting, lock her up, lock her up, she's our political opponent. He did.

You did. Hold on, thank you. Hold on. Let's get real. Here's the thing. And besides it was Donald Trump is a criminal. Hold on. What do you want us to do?

You pretend to be in favor of freedom and you pretend to be in favor of equality in the Constitution. Donald Trump is a lifelong criminal. He's broken every law that we can imagine. And you go, oh, let him go. Let him go. He's our leader.

He's our beloved leader. He should be above the law. You are like a guy who got broken up with and can't get over it. This is so deranged. I don't like Trump. Why don't he fell into an analogy? Until he decided to run as a Republican

after 75 years of being a public figure. All right, let me bring it. Let me bring it. Hang on. Because I've always known he was a pea-brain little idiot. Donald Trump is the dumbest man we've ever seen on in public life. And these guys are pretending he's smart. He's like, well, how could he be a successful? He's not a successful businessman. He's not a successful businessman. He's not a television show. He's built tons of buildings. Hold on. Yeah, he had a television show. Where he yapped like he always does. They never made a living outside of the government. lines. I can tell you he's got a very successful television show. Failed the bar exam. I can tell you his television show is very successful and he showed extremely high levels of intelligence on that show. He may be the winner of celebrity apprentice. Let me bring in Deneh. That's not a business. Let me bring in Denex. He's a carnival barker. Actually, hang on, the apprentice which he had a stake in made tons of money. So that's not true. Dinesh. He didn't run the business. Did he peers? He didn't run the business. He did have a stake in the business of the brand of Apprentice.

You know, now you're playing word games. You said he had a stake in the business because he had equity in it as part of his deal as an actor. They hired him to be an actor acting as a businessman when they knew and they say now, yeah, we knew he was a failed loser businessman. But he's the most sad person on. He must be a most successful player-up loser. It's incredible that this P-Braid loser managed to become president against the most qualified candidate in American history, Hillary Clinton.

I can tell you what. But there you go, Chek. Let me bring in Dinesh. Because the American people hate the establishment, that's why. Dinesh, on the VP debate, does it matter what happens on Tuesday night? Does it have any real consequence? I think it does, in part because, well, certainly in the Trump case, Trump is well into his 70s.

I do think that people are thinking a little bit beyond Trump. I think that the questions whether J.D. Vance will sort of inherit the Trumpian mantle, so to speak. I think the debate's going to be a contrast in styles. And that is to say that Tim Wals is clearly a kind of over-the-top populist from the left. He's why he gesticulates wildly. He's the kind of guy who tries to make, you know, expressions of being an ordinary guy who fixes his own car. And now, J.D. Vance is a little more cerebral. And this isn't a way of contest for whose rhetoric is actually going to speak more to the white, working class. And that appears to be a key swing constituency in the election. So it's two populists,

one from the right and one from the left, with two different styles appealing to the same group of people. I totally agree with that. Claudia, final word to you, the VP debate, do you think people of your generation, do they pay much attention to the VP debates, do you think? Absolutely. And so much more than other years and other elections. You know, historically, we haven't seen that a vice-presidential pick has much impact on the election. But this year, I mean, it's different. Everybody's eyes are on Tim Walz and what he's saying and what he's doing with his cars and everybody's eyes are on J.D. Vance and what he's saying about this person and that person one day. And tomorrow, you know, I do agree. I think that Josh Shapiro would have been a much better pick and I think he would

have killed J.D. Vance in a debate, but that's not the situation we're in right now. So I'm a little concerned for both of them, quite frankly, but I'm excited to see what's going to happen. is that before the presidential debate recently, I was utterly convinced that Donald Trump would flatline Kamala Harris in that debate, and I was completely wrong. So it's been a very surprising race, and I've given up making predictions.

I'm going to watch it with great interest. Thank you to my panel. Much appreciated. Thank you very much.