Piers Morgan Uncensored - 'Kanye Is EVIL!” Ye's Antisemitic Online Tirade | Feat Rabbi Shmuley & Myron Gaines

Episode Date: February 10, 2025

Once considered to be a demi-god of hip hop, rapper Kanye ‘Ye’ West has since become a pariah amongst the black American community and the entertainment industry at large. Given that his past exploits have included direct antisemitism and calling slavery ‘a choice’, many people didn’t think he could sink any lower - but at this year’s Grammy Awards, he brought his wife Bianca Censori onto the red carpet, all for her to reveal herself in an entirely see-through dress. Days later, Kanye went on a seemingly unprovoked diatribe on X that included him saying he has ‘dominion over his wife’ and that ‘Jews should be whipped’. The offensive nature of his statements begs two very important questions; should there be limits to freedom of speech? And can words push someone to violence? For an engrossing debate on these two concepts Piers Morgan talks to host of the 'Fresh and Fit Podcast' Myron Gaines, rapper and podcast host Zuby, author and relationship expert Rabbi Shmuley Boteach and commentator and YouTuber Choke No Joke. Editor's note: Choke No Joke used the n-word while making a legitimate point in the context of the debate. We've beeped this due to the platform's profanity policy. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

He is not crazy. That is an excuse. He is wicked and he is evil. Him saying that is actually protected under the First Amendment. Hate speech is protected. That's the point. It's not. You don't even know.

You don't know enough about your own First Amendment. I'm not saying that I support hate, but people have a right. But white man walk up to you and say, hey, get out the way. You support that? I support his right to say it. What is funny about beating up a woman?

People like you are the first. fucking problem. This interview respectfully will be on your highlight career, living in infamy. You're running around with someone that's literally a war criminal wanted by the ICC. And then you're over here calling for censorship. I'm tired of anti-semitism. I'm tired of racism. You are a Jew hater and you have a right to be a Jew hater. Fuck your feelings, dude. Free speech means a right to express ideas and opinions without a fear of censorship or sanction. It applies equally to speech, which many consider deeply offensive. In fact, that's arguably. be when it's most important. Otherwise, the loudest and the most powerful voices have total

control over ideas and they have the ability to crush dissent. But there are limits to free speech, even under the First Amendment. There's no First Amendment right to share child pornography, threaten individuals or incite violence. Rapper Yeh, hereafter, I'm going to call him Kanye West. I'm done with calling him Yea. Unleashed a wild flood of anti-Semitic posts on X this weekend. He was misogynist. He was racist. He was frankly disgusting. He talked about violence against women. He talked about violence against Jewish people and enslaving them. He talked about loving Hitler.

He talked about white people and Jewish people who are different and the Jews are always going to steal. And whether this endless vile tarot was tantam out to something of violence against Jewish people is, I guess, open to debate. He certainly wanted people to think very disparagingly of them, if not hate them. I would argue that identifying as a Nazi alone implies that,

yeah, maybe he shares a mindset of people who literally explains. exterminated millions of Jews. Not to mention his statement that you have to put Jews in their place and make them into your slaves. Something that he then followed up with this. He said, Jews were better as slaves. You have to put Jews in their place and make them to your slaves. He then says, sometimes you have to do it like the pharaohs. Make your Jews work for you, but watch them as close as you can. Whip your Jews. Whip your Jews as he treat them like slaves. What does that mean? Is that ambiguous? Is that freedom of speech? Is that freedom of

or is that a clarion call to commit acts of violence against Jewish people? What seems crystal clear is that Kanye West was in clear violation of X's own rules on hateful conduct. The platform under Elon Musk has suspended more than 5 million accounts since he took over. It censored Kanye's account yesterday as not suitable for work when he posted legal pornography. And Musk has previously banned Kanye West entirely by posting a swastika interlaced with the Star of David. which he said was an incitement of violence. So why was Canya allowed to spend the whole weekend unloading shocking abuse on Jewish people

before apparently leaving voluntarily? And more broadly, just what the hell is going on with this idiot? Well, joining me now to debate all this, host of the Fresh and Fit podcast, Maron Gaines, the rapper and podcast, Zubi, America's rabbi and author of Holocaust Holiday, Rabbi Shmuli Moteyak, and the commentator and YouTuber, choke, no joke. Okay, let me start with you, Myron, you and I got into a little Twitter exchange yesterday, about free speech. And it seems to me with Kanye and this tirade that went on for days,

there are two debates to be had. One is whether what he was doing was contrary to X's own rules by the same definition that they have suspended millions of accounts. And I posted a graph showing why people got suspended, a lot of it for harassment, hateful conduct and so on. So I think there's literally no decision. dispute or doubt that he did. So the question remains, why was he then not suspended, but able to leave voluntarily?

But the wider debate that I think you and I were having was about freedom of speech. And where that begins and ends, I don't want to put words in your mouth, but you seem to be suggesting that you don't think there is an end. In other words, you can say absolutely anything you want, to which I would say, well, I don't think you should be able to say to 32 million people on a platform that you want to make Jewish people your slave, and whip them. Do you? Well, I think the thing is when Elon took over X,

he wanted to mirror it with the First Amendment. And the First Amendment allows a broad range of speech to be allowed. And the reality is, if we don't have free speech, we don't have a democracy. And that's literally from Elon Musk himself. Now, we want to talk about unequal punishment on X, you know, based on some people saying, this is getting punished, people saying this and not getting punished.

That's a whole other conversation. But I think if you're going to mirror the First Amendment with Twitter, then you need to allow that speech in. Right, but look, on the first point about X's rules, he clearly transgressed pretty much every rule they have. I think that's unarguable. So it's for Elon to explain why in the end he was only censored, which he was, because he posted legal pornography.

It seems to me extraordinary that legal pornography is deemed to be more offensive and more worthy of censorship than saying that you should make Jews your slaves and whip them. So let me bring in on that, Zubi, you and I have debated free speech many times, but on that specific point, I mean, do you view the publication of legal pornography on X as better or worse than what he said about making Jews slaves and whipping them? I'm being honest, I think it's all bad. I don't think that hardcore pornography should be on X. If I'm being honest, it's not on any other social media platform. And a big reason for that is because kids use these platforms.

And if you've got that many followers and you start posting pornography, then naturally you're going to get some minors seeing it. And so that in itself is a problem. When it comes to inciting violence or calling for violence, I think it's fair to say that he did cross that line. I mean, if you're saying to whip a certain race or ethnic group of people, whether he's pretending. And you've got the wider context of everything he's been saying beyond that.

You'd have to go through it post by post. I think a lot of them, vast majority of them, I'm not a fan of. I would condemn what he's saying, but I would support his right to free speech. But when it comes up to the point of calling for violence, which he did in that specific one that you brought up, then, yeah, that's a clear violation. I don't run X. I'm not Elon. I'm not a moderator. So I'm not in charge of that. I'm a very staunch advocate for freedom of speech. But yeah, there is a line. It sounds like you share my view. I mean, bringing in the rabbi here. I mean, rabbi, if I was Jewish, I'm not. Irish cafe, if I was Jewish, I'd have been utterly sickened by the constant tirade of

blatantly anti-Semitic garbage that was being spewed by Kanye West. How are you feeling? First of all, you're an honorary Jew because you've really supported Israel through this war and we're grateful, Pierce. Tolerating the intolerable is the liberalism of fools. You can speak about being a free speech absolutist, but there must be three exceptions. incitement to violence, commission of violence, and admission of violence. What's missing from this discussion is not that Kanye said that Jews should be whipped,

it's that Kanye said that he has beaten women, and he said that women should be slapped, and his wife is in an abusive relationship, and Bianca Sensori's family who live in Melbourne, Australia, have done nothing to rescue her. Are we talking about whether there should be pornography at Annex? There was pornography at the Grammys. Professional lip readers had him tell his wife, Bianca Sensori, take your mink coat off, and she is totally glassy-eyed. There's no free agency.

She is an abused wife. She's an abused woman. How is the media becoming complicit in the absolute degradation and humiliation of this woman, who he claims to have dominion over, and he says he slaps her around and he says that he has practiced violence against women. Where is law enforcement?

Why hasn't he been arrested? Why hasn't there been an investigation? Where is the rest of Hollywood and the Grammys to condemn violence against women? The two most targeted victims groups in history are Jews and women. And notice that Kanye, the ultimate bully, goes after both.

And let me say one final thing. I utterly reject any belief. that Kanye is sick. He is not. He is wicked. There's a big difference. He knows when to turn it off. At the Grammys, he was completely normal. He wasn't there and naked in any way. It was all about his wife. He didn't lose it. He said, you're going to get a lot of attention. Everything he does is willful. It is motivated by a desire for attention, building his businesses. He is not, he is not crazy. That is an excuse. He is wicked and he is evil. Yeah, I mean, I would add to this choke-no-joke. One of the most offensive things he did.

for me, in his defense of Diddy, for example, he suddenly produced a t-shirt, which was a scene from the hotel lobby or the corridor where Diddy had beaten up one of his girlfriends, and it had her in the picture, right? This was literally a crime scene of appalling domestic abuse that we all saw the video, and he's trying to sell a T-shirt based on it.

Now, that alone, to me, crossed any kind of line that should be tolerable for social media. Yeah, well, first of all, how you doing, Piss? Thanks for having me back. Good to see you. All right. Like the rabbi said, Kanye is just doing all this for attention.

You know, he's not the topic of discussion and hip-hop no more. The Super Bowl was going on. It was Kendrick's moment. He's trying to stare with Sean because it's not about him. It's about Kendrick and Drake right now. And he is an embarrassment to the black man. You know, he is a pure embarrassment to the black community.

97% of us don't approve of what he's doing. He's disrespect for the women. I promise you, no disrespect to the Caucasian woman, but if that was a strong, sophisticated black woman, she would not have took her clothes on. on that red carpet to satisfy Kanye chased the cloud, which is fame or the spotlight. And I known Kanye, I was there today.

He got signed at Rockefeller. I know I met his mother. I've been in his apartment. I know the humble Kanye that fame, once he's allegedly sold his soul to this game, he became this dark person. And like the rabbi said, what he's doing is very evil.

I don't think that that's freedom of speech what he's doing. That can incite a riot, that can incite a hate attack on the Jewish community, and all he's doing it for is attention. It's nothing wrong with him. He's just mad because he's not relevant right now. You know, I agree. In fact, when I interviewed him at length over a year ago,

you know, he categorically denied that he had any mental illness. And I also asked him if he had any regrets because he'd been through a storm about abusing Jewish people before about saying he wanted to go DefCon 3, D-E-A-T-H, death-con 3 on Jewish people. And I asked him if he regretted it.

See what he said. You've now changed what you wanted to say originally. My question for you is, do you now regret saying death-con 3 on Jewish people? Are you sorry you said that? No. I think it matters.

You should be. Absolutely not. When you insult the Jewish people, Jewish people and say you're going death con three on the Jewish people. That is as racist as anything you say you've been through and any pain that you've experienced. It's the same thing. Racism is racism. And you know that, I think, don't you? Yeah, obviously. That's why I said it. So you said it knowing it's racist? Yes. I fought fire with fire. I'm not here to go hos down. At least that's honest. It's a different type of freedom fighter. I will say I'm sorry for the people that I hurt with the deaf con. The, the, the, the The confusion that I call. I feel like I cause hurt and confusion. And I'm sorry for the families of the people that had nothing to do with the trauma that I had been through. And that I use my platform where you say hurt people, hurt people.

And I was hurt. The truth is he wasn't sorry about the hurt. Otherwise, he wouldn't have carried on doing it for the last three days. And just to bring you back, Maren, if I can. He's back to Gannon. And I guarantee you there's some music coming down the pipeline. Right. That's why he's doing this.

Yeah, it's attention seeking for personal gain. Maran, let me bring you back in. Because yesterday, when you were getting into it with me about what you perceived to be censorship, you said, why the fuck are you calling for censorship when you have a show called uncensored? The hypocrisy is incredible. But I was calling for a censorship of blatant,

threatening violence in the language abuse of Jewish people. and of women, including trying to market a t-shirt based around an incident of criminal domestic abuse. Surely you would agree with that censorship, wouldn't you? No, I don't believe in censorship. I think, you know, context matters, and it's very obvious that, you know, he's doing this as a marketing plug.

I mean, look, we're talking about it right now, so he's done a fantastic job. He had a commercial with the Super Bowl. He's the talk of the town right now. He's basically stolen the attention from Kendrick Lamar. Some people here are trying to say that Kendrick is more relevant than Kanye when it comes to hip hop, but he's stolen the attention, how? From really smart marketing now, with that said, I don't think anyone's ability to speak should

ever be censored. Now, do I like everything that he says? No, but I'm going to fight for his ability to say it. I also think it's important to note that sarcasm and humor and making jokes is a part of what he was saying. Is he really going to run around and slap women? No, obviously he's being sarcastic. He's being funny.

He's being edgy. And I think that's important because we need people like that pushing the envelope so we could protect free speech. But he was literally. literally trying to sell a t-shirt which had imagery of his friend Diddy, his new friend apparently, because they fell out, his friend Diddy involved in a criminal act of abuse against a woman. Literally, that's what he was doing. Yeah, I mean, it's America. Hang on on one's saying, just to be clear, though, Marron. Just to be clear, Marron, you think that,

you think that was acceptable? Again, capitalism is capitalism. Do I agree with it? Do I like it? maybe not. However, I will support his ability to do it because he's obviously marketing things. He thinks maybe he has some dark humor that he wants to do where he thought that was funny. But the reality is that this is America and capitalism is a thing here. So when Elon Musk... Can I... Hang on one say. I'll come to all of you. So when, just to be clear, Marron, when Elon Musk replied yesterday to someone on X and said

that he was now being censored for the legal pornography that he was posting, did you agree with that? Well, I don't like pornography, but again, it is legal. There's a three-part test in America with the Miller test to see if it suffices. And, you know, you can make the argument that, you know, it didn't cause any issues as far as well. So Elon was wrong to censor him? With pornography? Yes. Well, again, I don't like porn.

I don't think it should be on X at all, personally. Okay. So you agree with censorship? For pornography. Right. Let's be clear. You agree with censorship? No, I agree with pornography not being on X.

I think it needs to be contained in a certain way. But it's legal. It was legal what he was posting. Yeah, I mean, like I said before, I don't have to like it or agree with it. But what about his free speech rights to post it if he wants to? It's legal. Well, that's a whole other thing. I think with X and pornography, there needs to be some kind of middle ground where, you know,

if it's going to be on X, there needs to be a way where it's not necessarily on the main feed, but that's a whole other discussion. Don't you, Marron? I mean, for all your chat on Twitter to me yesterday, you actually agree with it. To compare censorship of pornography to censorship on political speech or someone's ability. Do you think saying that you should treat Jews like slaves and whip them or bitches deserve to be slapped, that is not, or trying to sell a t-shirt of a domestic crime being committed? You think none of those things are worse than posting legal pornography. Yeah, you know, I find that interesting that you're, you know, harping on.

this, but there's people that monetize murder and death all the time in the hip-hop industry. There's people that monetize- I don't agree with that either. I'm sorry? I don't agree with that either. Exactly. You don't have to agree with it for it to happen or for it to be allowed. I'm curious, why you think only the pornography, which was legal, to be clear, should be censored. You didn't think any of the other stuff should be. What's the difference? Pornography and political speech? Completely different.

No, no. Pornography and saying that Jews should be whipped and treated the slaves. Well, that's speech. I mean, if you want to be. to say that, you know what I mean, I don't have to agree with it, but I think if he wants to say that, I should be going to say that. I mean, so consenting adults having sex and posting that is not acceptable but treating Jews or saying Jews should be slaves and be whipped, that is acceptable for you. Speech, you cannot conflate speech with pornography, Pierce. Why not? Why not? They're not the same whatsoever. Why aren't they the same thing? No, they're not. Why not? Explain why the difference? Because in order to allow speech and you need to allow all speech in. You need to allow all speech

so that people can come in and be able to have ideas, right? What's wrong with people having sex? But if you're going to go ahead and say, oh, yeah, let's go ahead and conflate that with pornography. Well, there's nothing really to debate there. There are any real discourse that could be had with pornography of watching people have sex. It's not the same whatsoever.

And to try to conflate the two is ridiculous. One is legal, and the other one is actually illegal. To treat people like slaves and whip them would be illegal. Actually, pornography, legal pornography is legal. So you're in favor of censoring something that's legal, but you're not in favor of censoring something that's illegal. I find that fascinating. Him saying that is actually protected under the First Amendment.

Hate speech is protected. That's the point. It's not. You don't even know enough about your own First Amendment. I seem to know more than you. Although, just to be clear, I have a House in America. When I come to America, like anyone who comes to America, you are automatically protected by the First Amendment as well. So I know a lot about the First Amendment.

First Amendment actually bans a lot of things. including incitement to violence, incitement to violent hatred. Anyone that was looking at the tweets, right? Anyone that was looking at his tweets that has any level of common sense understands that his dark humor, understands he's trolling, it's marketing. He doesn't really mean. Nothing funny about it at all. Let me bring in Zubi.

You've been watching very intently Zubi. I mean, look, I think this whole, I think what we've just established with Myron, with respect to him, is that when you try and be a free speech absolutist, gets very complicated very quickly because I can't for the life of me. Maybe you can articulate it better, but I can't for the life of me understand why Elon Musk, with his action yesterday, censors the legal pornography. And by the way, I agree with him. He should have done that. But that he doesn't censor any of the blatantly illegal things that Kanye was spewing, notably the fact that you should treat Jews like slaves and whip them. That is actually a,

crime in America to encourage people to do that, to incite that level of... Well, hang on, Maran, I'm going to... I'm going to... Zubi here. It seems to me that once you get into absolutism about this, it just gets complicated, very fast. Yeah, you're right. Look, it does get complicated, and the reality is that different people have different lines. Different nations have different lines. Every single country has different laws when it comes to freedom of speech, freedom of expression, even things like, things that are graphic, visual things like pornography and so on. Some people will say that falls under freedom of speech.

Some people will say that it doesn't. Going beyond that, though, this is all happening on a platform. And social media platforms have the right to set their boundaries where they want the boundaries to be. On Facebook and YouTube, for example, you absolutely cannot post pornography in any form. However, on X slash Twitter, for whatever reason, throughout its entire history, they have allowed that. a lot of people oppose it, but for whatever reason, they let that go. So the truth is ultimately, you know, we can discuss the First Amendment, we can discuss laws in different countries. But I think in this particular case, the question is really about X and the X policies and

what is enforced and what is not enforced and what crosses the line and what doesn't. I would absolutely say, look, I don't even think I saw every single thing that Kanye posted. I don't use X on Sundays. but from what I saw, the vast majority of the posts were certainly egregious, but they didn't cross a line outside of what is within the bounds of the First Amendment. When it gets to something like calling for violence, I think that that's pretty clear cut. So from what I saw, there were probably like three or four tweets, you know, maybe somewhere between two to four tweets that crossed that line.

So I'm not going to sit here and defend Kanye. I will defend the principle of free speech. like Myron said, I don't think that pornography should be on X anyway. I think that's a whole separate conversation. So I think I can say that I think a lot of what he said was wrong, and I can be very critical of it. But the vast majority of it, I would not say is banworthy. However, there were a couple posts where he did cross the lines,

and it's up to X, how and when they enforce that. Yeah, and Ramai Smirley, I would say that I'm a big fan of Elon Musk and I'm a big fan of his free speech defense, which I think he's been very proactive in. But I think he's discovered it is very complicated sometimes because there's no doubt to me that if any ordinary person have been spewing what Kanye was spewing, they'd have been suspended very quickly,

as they would be on any social media platform. What struck me is astonishing. I even directly posted to Elon saying, can you please do something about this? This guy is doing this with utter impunity and quite deliberately testing your limits of what free speech are. And the truth is, there are limits. That's why the First Amendment has limits to it.

And that's why you've got to have some limits. Otherwise, people do what Kanye West did. Which, by the way, he was doing it to 32 million people, Rabbi Shmooley. So 32 million people were seeing a very high-profile rap star boasting about being a Nazi, boasting about loving Hitler, boasting about wanting to ordering people, instructing them to make Jews be their slaves and whip them,

saying that bitches deserve to get slapped, trying to sell t-shirts with domestic crimes on them. All of this, I thought, was just completely outrageous. And not a matter of free speech, but a matter of somebody literally spewing violent and criminal rhetoric. I also like Elon Musk, and I'm very grateful to him for having gone to Israel right after the October 7th attacks

being escorted by the Prime Minister of Israel himself, visitor himself, Benjamin Netanyahu, to see the women that were raped, that were beheaded, families that were burnt alive. I was there one week after the attacks as well. But I also agree with you that this is absolutely unacceptable. I saw your tweet, Pierce, and that's why I wanted to come on the show. You know, Zubi and, wait, wait, wait, just a second. Zubi and Maron, you seem like very decent guys. Maureen, you can respond to him when he's finished talking.

So let me, let me, let me, please, let me speak. I believe, respectfully, that this interview will live in shame for the two of you, for the duration of your careers. Am I really hearing, first of all, from you, Myron, that he was joking when he said he beats up women. Ha, ha, I beat my wife, Bianca, and that's funny. What is funny about beating up a woman? What is funny about threatening violence

against a people who in the lifetime of my mother were gassed at a rate of 10,000 a day and turned into ash? This interview respectfully will be on your highlight career, living in infamy. It is not funny to murder 1.5 million children. It is not funny to rampage through the Jewish community surrounding Gaza, beheading Jews and non-Jews, including Thai workers with spades. I saw their beheaded bodies, for God's sake. There's real consequences to this hate.

There used to be an alliance between the black and Jewish communities knowing that we were hated for no reason other than the fact that we were different. I ask you, Zubi, you believe in free speech completely? If I'm David Duke and I'm saying, you know, in 1964 in Birmingham, Alabama, we blew up churches, the clan, and we burned four young black girls alive. Let's go do it again. Let's organize it.

Sunday, this coming Sunday, 3 o'clock, we're going to burn those black girls alive. you're going to say, well, he has a right to say, give me a break. What you're going to say is that this man is a disgusting, filthy, excuse me, a disgusting, filthy racist. Now, now, now, now, now, wait, wait, wait, now, now, wait, now, just a second. Go for it. Kanye did not incite violence. He confessed to violence.

He said, I beat up women. And, and Myron, who the heck are you to say that he didn't mean it? Do you have evidence? You mean he's lying and you're telling you? the truth? We saw what happened with Diddy. And by the way, the only person here was any dignity in this debate is choke, no joke who's saying that this is offensive to black men. Do you guys not understand this is feeding every stereotype of black rappers? I love the black community. The greatest American of the 20th century was Martin Luther King, who died so that people could

have dignity. But that's not what a lot of people think. A lot of people think that rappers are into using the word B-I-T-C-H-E-S and Kanye says I'm a billionaire. And choke, no joke comes along and says, this is offensive to the stereotypes of black men. And it is. And you guys are freaking defending this. I want to be clear, I'm sick of anti-Semitism. I'm sick of racism.

There are white racists, nationalists who hate black people. Some of them are around President Trump, even though I think he's a great friend of the black community, but he has those voices. We have Tucker Carlson. Tucker Carlson denies, he denies the Holocaust, and yet he's in the president's ear. He denies the Holocaust.

All right. So please, stop defending hatred. Okay. I want to come to, to choke, no joke in a moment, but I think it's only fair and right that I go to both the people you've just sprayed gun and get them to response. So, Maron, your response to Rabbi Shmooley?

Yeah, again, you know, I find it incredible that he's over here so critical of Kanye West, right, about, oh, he beats his wife, whatever. Meanwhile, you're walking around with a war criminalist, killed hundreds of thousands of innocent people, bomb them indiscriminately, et cetera. I find it very interesting. that you're so hardcore on Twitter about some tweets that may or may not have been a joke,

more than likely a joke, anyone that has common sense, sarcasm, dark humor, et cetera, versus you're running around with someone that's literally a war criminal wanted by the ICC that's killed tens of thousands of innocent children, right? And then you're over here calling for censorship. I'm tired of anti-symicism. I'm tired of racism. People like you are the fucking problem, because here's the thing. Americans are tired of censorship.

We're tired of being browbeat into being virtual. signaling losers like you who always sit there and try to rage people and say, oh, you go ahead and you provoke problems with people. I've literally seen you do this. You go up to people. You provoke them and they tell you fuck off. And then you get mad and you yell anti-Semitism. Quite literally, what I want to hear is this.

Rabbi Shmuli, until you can actually call people liars for what they say, no one cares about anti-Semitism is anymore. You guys run around, use it for everything. We're tired of it. Stop trying to browbeat us in virtue signal saying, oh, that's anti-Semitic. How about this? When you can call someone a liar for what they're saying, you're saying, you're saying, you saying, then we'll start taking you more seriously.

Other than that, your fucking dildo rabbi. All right, Zubi, your turn. Okay. May I respond? You can reply in a moment. Zubi to respond to you first. Zubi? All right, I'm going to keep it calm. I'm going to take the high ground here because that was a heck of a lot of straw manning going

on there because you know that I did not support what was said. I did not support anything hateful. And I actually very clearly said that I don't support inciting violence. And in fact, that is a clear violation. So you can try to straw men my position, but people can listen to this interview. You did say that. I heard you very clearly say that. Freedom of speech means racism.

It means anti-semitism. The trouble is, Maron, it doesn't mean. It doesn't mean you inside violence. That's the line. Myron, I didn't interrupt you. Myron, myron, let's talk to you. Myron, let me respond calmly. May, Myron, let me respond calmly, please.

This is speaking over each other that doesn't serve the interests of the public, please. I understand that, but what? Why don't you finish interrupting me and then I'll speak? Okay, because you've been yapped me all the whole time. Okay, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Myron, myron, myron, myron.

Thank you, Myron. Thank you for showing. Don't talk over each other because nobody can hear what anyone's saying. Okay, Myron, thank you for showing your true colors. You believe that when Jews defend themselves against genocidal acts of violence that we are the genocideres, we Jews are never victims. You said that I. provoke anti-Semitic attacks.

I was recently attacked by someone, while I was working on the acceptance speech of one of President Trump's cabinet picks, by the way, because he's a friend, did it as a favor, when a crazy Islamist came over and threatened to murder me, it was filmed, it was watched by tens of millions of people. You believe the Jews are never the victims

of anti-Semitism. They are the culprits of anti-Semitism. They're the culprits. We invite anti-Semitism. This is the oldest. You have to let me speak. This is the oldest anti-Semitic trope in the book that we Jews want to shake down the world for money

because we're money-obsessed. You are saying exactly what Kanye said. Now, I wouldn't stop you from saying it. You're a Kanye supporter because you agree with this ideology, and I have no problem to be saying it, because you're not calling for me to be whipped. You're not calling for me to be enslaved. So you can say it.

You are a Jew-hater and you have a right to be a Jew-hater. I agree because I'm a free speech absolutist. that Kanye West says, I beat women. His wife was ordered by him to strip naked. You're opposed to pornography, and you support what he did at the Grammys to that poor, abused woman? Let me ask you, Myron, why don't you speak out against what Kanye did to his wife if you hate pornography? Again, I don't like pornography. I don't support it, right?

You don't have to agree with someone 100% to still be able to defend them. Like I said before, there's people that hold views that I discise. like, but I'll defend their ability to say it because I have freedom of speech. Whether it's racist, it's anti-Semitic or whatever else, you know, term people want to use, I believe in freedom of speech, and that means protecting speech that you might not like. Also, you lied. You walked up to Sineco, you try to provoke him during the election night, and he ended up embarrassing you. So you do go up and try to instigate arguments with people, and then you call anti-Semitism when they respond to you. Okay, let me get a choke, no joke. Hang on, hang on. Choke no jokes,

be ready very patiently. Look, you can see how quickly this escalates into a lot of ad hominem attacks. What do you feel? I would like to say, yeah. I'm sorry, what's your brother, the brother name, Marvin, Myron, what's your name? Myron. Myron. Myron, brother, please. We're on the world stage, man. You know, I don't know if you're African-American or I see you colored.

I don't know if you black African-American. What does that matter? Because one, we're talking about racism. It's not race. Hold on, brother. We're talking about race. We're talking about racism here, right? Now, if Pierce went on X and said black people should be hung by trees and wits, right?

Would you not think that we would not have the same feeling that the Jewish community is having right now with Kanye making these things? types of tweets? You know what? I wouldn't really care if Pierce said that, because I would say it's the freedom of speech. You could say that if you want. I might not like it. But again- My question to you was, as black people, would we be offended as the Jewish community,

people would be offended are offended right now? Here's what I'm trying to say. Fuck your feelings, dude. Nobody cares. Freedom of speech is freedom of speech. I don't care how you feel. You need to allow people to say what they want to say. don't like it, that's fine.

Okay. But here's the problem. Hang on, hang on, hang on, here's the problem I have with it. Is it Zubi has very clearly drawn a line, right? Zubi I know from interview, hang on. Zubi has always passionately defended free speech, as indeed of I. But like me, he draws a clear line when people are inciting violence. There is no doubt that is what Kanye West was doing.

And the only member of the panel who has not denounced that is you, Myron. And I'm baffled why you can't draw a line that is drawn by your own First Amendment. Again, because I have the comments that he's not talking about really beating women. It's a joke. He's been making tweets trolling the whole day. Brother, brother, how do you know it's a joke? How do you know it's a joke? It's very obvious a joke.

Can I finish my point? Can I finish my point? Have you asked him? Have you asked him? Have you asked him to the joke? Let me finish my point. Let me finish my point. First of all, brother, listen, listen, brother, listen.

You said, right, that it can be dark humor. You said it's common sense. Everybody don't have common sense. Kanye has fans that will do and follow whatever he does, right? I've seen his career go from the beginning up to now. I've seen people being influenced by him. I've seen people dressed like him. I've seen people talk like him.

So if he's influencing these hatred things, talking about he's Yadolf Yitla and influencing his audience to hate Jews, influencing his audience to

disrespect women, to influence young black men to have their women walk around naked. He has that influence, brother. So when you say, oh, it's just It's common sense. It's just dark humor. You're saying that because you lived a little to learn to know.

The youth, the young black man, they don't know. Like they thought in hip-hop, dudes was really killing and shooting and stuff. And they thought that these people were real gangsters. That birthed is a drill music. Because when they found out this guy was a wankster, he wasn't real, they had to go and shoot and kill first, then go to the studio. So it has influence, brother. and you're breaking my heart because I watch you sometimes,

and I didn't know that you would be, you're not ignorant, but what you're saying is pure ignorance right now. Everybody know. My Instagram is real choke, no joke, right? I get sensitive for just telling the truth, being a strong heterosexual man, and I'm sensitive. What Kanye doing is not freedom of speech, it's hate. You know what I'm saying?

Yeah, and that's a very interesting point, because a lot of people get suspended for far, far less than what Kanye said. Zubi, again, I want to bring you back in here. Some people say, look, the best sunlight, and the sunlight can sometimes be the best disinfectant. In other words, you let someone like Kanye spew his vile garbage,

and actually the court of public opinion sees him for what he is, and that settles the matter. I've got to say, I'm more with choke, no joke, of the 32 million people that follow Kanye on X until he discredit himself, you know, you just don't know how many might have an impression from him that they then want to follow. You just don't know because they're not all smart people. A lot of people might be easily led down a horrible line of anti-Semitism or whatever it may be because their hero Kanye has said this.

What do you feel about that the sunlight disinfect an argument? Yeah, look, I like to know who people are. It's part of why I like freedom of speech. You know, right here, we've got a lot of passionate people on this panel right here. There's people out there in the world who like some of us and who don't like some of us, right? I think every single person on this panel has said things in the past that people would have liked to cancel them for, ban them for, censor them for, and so on. So personally, when it comes to the concept of hate, people are allowed to be haters. People can be hateful.

And I support free speech when it comes to people being hateful. I'm like, cool. It doesn't mean I like what they're saying, but they have a right to say it. If someone wants to be nasty about white people, nasty about white, black people, nasty about Jewish people, nasty about whoever, Arabs who, any ethnicity or race, I don't support that. I don't think it's good. But if you're calling, as I said before, if you're calling for violence or if you're, you know, really, that's my line. That's my line. If you're saying like these people should be hurt or this individual should be hurt, I'm not saying that I support hate, but people have a right.

But a white man walked up to you and say, hey, get out the way. Do you support that? I support his right to say it. And he can deal with the consequences. You don't feel no way about him. You're just going to go out of you. And what are the consequences? You said he can deal with the consequences.

But to be, to be for you, what would the consequences be? It could get physical. Pierce. In the same way, if someone goes up to someone and insults someone's mother. Wait a second, Rabbi Shmoly. Wait a second. Everyone, wait, I'm interested in Zubi's response to that, is if somebody came up and abused you like that, what you're saying, I think, is that you would deal with it how you want to deal with it. Exactly. Look, there are all sorts of things. Look, we're all grown men here. We all know that if you go up to a man and you just start insulting him, insulting his sister, insulting his family, calling him names or whatever, we all know that that could result in physical violence. It doesn't mean that you're going to run away and you're going to call the police and say that, you know, he was being hateful and so on.

and people insult each other all the time online offline there's all sorts of nastiness that exists in the world and I'm not trying to police at all when it comes to the concept of freedom of speech as I said to me the line is not the line is not hatred hatred is extraordinarily subjective and even when it's clear people have a right to be hateful but if people are going to make threats against individuals or you're going to call on an audience and tell them hey get that person

do this thing to that person go hurt that person then to me that is absolutely crossing a line And that's even why in the First Amendment in the USA, which is the strongest protection of freedom of speech, they recognize incitement to violence. Yes, they do. To me, the concept of hate and incitements to violence, those are two different categories.

On principle, I don't support the former, but I support people's right to say those things, and the latter, I think that's where it crosses the law. Okay, so the interesting question for you, okay, for Rabbi Smurley, I would say this, do you as a Jewish man, and I've had this conversation with many Jewish people, many of them do feel this, what I'm about to say, that if the level of hate and hateful rhetoric

gets to a certain scale, that that in itself can just precipitate violence against Jewish people. In other words, if you encourage a, and I would say the same, by the way, about that hateful language towards black people, towards Arabs, towards anybody, right? In other words, that the scale of hatred through words can drive violence, even if it's not intended to. Exactly. We call that defamation. Let's take, for example, how Jim Crow and segregation outlived slavery. You had white racists, especially the clan, who basically told white men that these black men

wanted to defile your women. The Germans said the same thing about Jewish men in Germany. Now, that's one of the things that people feel most strongly about I have to protect my women, I have to protect my wife. Then we saw lynchings. Chok, no joke, made a very good point. We saw all lynchings. Those lynchings were a direct reaction to look at Emmett Till. Emmett Till was 14 years old, arguably the most famous lynching in American history. They cut off his penis and put it into his mouth. We now have his coffin at the Smithsonian National Black History Museum because they said that he whistled at a white woman. Even a 14-year-old boy wanted to rape a black woman. Now was that incitement to violence? Of course it was. The clan is all about incitutes.

to violence. When the Klan says that the black man by voting is going to take over the entire South and take your women and take your jobs, that is incitement to violence. That's why Zubi, with all due respect, you're just being too general. You're not giving any strict categories here. Now with Kanye, we know he said he beat women. There's no reason to say he was joking. We also know he said that Jews should be whipped.

He's inciting violence against Jews. Now the question is the rest of the defamatory things that Jews are parasites, that Jews steal your money. Or what we just heard from Myron, that we Jews are guilty of genocide, killing that Netanyahu is a war criminal. Is that not incitement to violence? You're saying the Jews, oh, wait, wait a second, please. You're saying the Jews are murderers. Now, let's be clear. Well, hang on. Hang on. I'm going to stop you there. Hang on, Rabbi Smirley, because you said at the start of this, by the way, that, you know, you wanted to thank me for being an honorary Jew for supporting Israel, as if somehow giving you a blanket support. I haven't. I've been

very critical of what Israel's been doing, particularly in the last few months. And in relation to Netanyahu, it may well end up that he faces war crime charges. So, you know, let's be clear. But let me, let me respond to that. My point is this. Criticizing a government or a prime minister or a president when they are waging warfare is completely legitimate. Right? You may not agree with the terminology.

I don't, for argument's sake, I don't believe it should be termed genocide what's happening. But I do believe that Israel having had a... Hang on, that Israel, having had a right and the duty to defend itself, I think has gone way too far. Now, I just think you've got to disseminate between being able to criticize Netanyahu and his government without being immediately accused of being anti-Semitic. I agree. I agree. So let me respond to that. When I'm most myron, I'll let you speak in just a moment. Let me respond to Pierce. I agree. Israel is a democracy. We invite criticism.

You can be an Arab citizen of Israel and stand outside Netanyahu's house. Jerusalem and call him Hitler and nothing will happen to you. These really authorities can do nothing and you'll watch it. I film this all the time. The difference is that, and here's the key, Kanye actually wrote that I want to normalize discussion of Hitler. In other words, normalizing Hitler means that everyone is now Hitler. So I was there when Elon Musk did his, you know, salute. I was there in the audience. He never did a Hitler salute. It's a lie. And he wrote, we just normalize Hitler. So now Elon Musk is Hitler and Benjamin Netanyahu is Hitler. Now, you spoke the other day to Tucker Carlson out of Saudi Arabia.

It was a very interesting interview. And you made the point that the man that I consider to be the greatest statesman of the 20th century, Winston Churchill, he considers the villain of the 20th century. Again, the normalization of the discussion of Hitler. Who was the bad guy in the Second World War? Not the guy who gasped 10,000 Jews a day. Not the one who brought religious war to Europe. Not the one who starved to death five million Russian prisoners of war. But Churchill, the man who saved democracy.

No, we are beginning to normalize the discussion of democratic leaders trying to protect people's freedoms. And in that sense, I say, Netanyahu, whatever you think about Netanyahu, Netanyahu did not launch some aggressive war against Gaza. If anything, he allowed so much money from Qatar to go into Gaza that allowed them to fund October 7. That should be the criticism.

So the moment you start saying that the Tanyao is Hitler, that is where Kanye West begins to win. Churchill is Hitler, and Netanyahu is Hitler. And now we can no longer distinguish between good and evil between free societies fighting to stop the gangraper of women and the beheading of children versus Hamas who preaches the gangraper of women. Okay, I don't want to get into the wider thing other than to say that on that point, you know, I'll come to Maron for this.

When Democrats have called Trump Hitler, for example, repeatedly the last eight years, I kept telling them, if you do that, it will inevitably backfire because most Americans know he's not Adolf Hitler. and he's not going to murder 12 million people. He's not going to incinerate 6 million Jews in ovens in the holocaust. So it's such a fatuous, horrible analogy to make. But, Marron, I wanted to ask you, as we come to a close here, is anything you've heard change your mind, in particular, perhaps, what Zubia said,

because you both passionately believe in free speech, but he has clearly drawn a line, the same line that is drawn by the First Amendment, when it is an incitement to violence. Have you, you know, are you rethinking, perhaps, your blanket defense of everything that people say, including if they incite violence? I think context matters. I think if someone's being sarcastic or funny or saying something in a joking term, I obviously, I think it's important for everyone to understand that he was doing this in the middle of a marketing run, right? And if I said to you now, if I said to you now, sometimes you have to do it like the pharaohs.

You have to make black people work for you. but watch them as close as you can whip your blacks. If I said that to you now, literally taking his words about Jews, what would you say? I would laugh because I have the ability. Yeah. I don't think you would.

And by the way, nor should you. Nor should you because it's not funny. To you, it might not be. Hitting women is not funny. Beating women is not funny. There's nothing funny about being a woman. Hang on, let me finish. Again, huge.

is subjective. What you might find funny, I might not find funny, and vice versa. There is nothing subjective about beating a woman. It is absolutely wrong. Let him finish, please. That is finished, please. Let's him finish, please. Hilda, Rabbi, I get it. You know, you got your panties in a bunch here, but remember, again, I don't have to like something for it to be allowed. And the other thing, too, is that humor is subjective.

I don't get angry at race jokes. I don't get angry at anything. People will call me all kinds of deplorable things, but I don't think. get angry because I don't let racism or any type of ism affect how I think because that's how they control you. So again, I will defend people's ability to say anything even if it's offensive. The other problem, too, I think that's very important here that Rabbi Shmuli and Cho keep mentioning is this whole, you know, outrage culture and feelings or whatever. That's precisely the problem. We live in a soft society where people are more concerned with what other people are saying and pay way too much attention to it. Look, kind of did a good job because we're clearly talking about this

and his marketing has worked. No, it's not, no, it's not, he hasn't. I don't think he has. I think he's completely fucked his career. Honestly, I do. And I'm sorry to use the F word, but we are uncensored. I think he, I think he is self- imploded in such a way that actually you watch. There's no way this has been a good marketing thing for him.

No way at all. He doubled his shirt sales. He doubled his clothing sales from doing this. Just watch. You got a thought back in six months' time and see how good this has all been for him. I want to end. We've run out of time, unfortunately. It's been a brilliant, brilliant debate by all of you.

Thank you. But choke, no joke. Let me just go to you for the final word on this. I'm just so disappointed, my brother right here. But just make sure y'all subscribe to my YouTube channel, Choke No Joke. I got a lot of old content of Kanye West on there when I used to work at Rockefeller as, you know, documented. So, yeah, I can see Kanye when he was more sane than where he is now and what he is. this industry has created.

And once again, there's one thing of freedom of speech, but there's also another thing when you have the influence of O'Conne West. Now you've got young men looking up to see who Hitler is. You don't know how that can affect their young brain. I agree. I agree. You know what I mean?

That can be bad, last time he went on this rant about DefCon 3 in Los Angeles, on the bridges, up went the swastikas. There was a direct consequence of what he was saying. And that is why words actually... And the sales of mine comp on Amazon, etc. Yeah, that's why words are dangerous. Look, you're only all here, for one reason,

you're all popular with your communities and you're very well watched. And it's been, I've got to say, one of the more interesting debates that we've ever had on our census. So thank you all very much indeed. I appreciate it. Pierce Morgan, on our censored,

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