Piers Morgan Uncensored - New Diddy Revelations With Lawyer Tony Buzbee And More

Episode Date: October 9, 2024

The more information that comes to light regarding the arrest of Sean Combs AKA Diddy, the more the people of Hollywood are disgusted and enraged. Some are racing to reveal what they know, while others are conspicuously keeping schtum. One man who will soon be making a lot of noise is Tony Buzbee, a Houston attorney who is representing 120 of Diddy’s alleged victims. In his own words, his team has “a long list of names” to make public, and some of the names 'will raise eyebrows'. To further discuss this developing story, and decode whatever they can from Buzbee, Piers Morgan has invited commentator and YouTuber Choke No Joke, broadcaster and columnist Esther Krakue and former federal prosecutor Andrew Cherkasky. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

And I expect that there will be some people named in these lawsuits that will raise some eyebrows. How big an eyebrow raise are we talking about? I mean, I'll be talking about names as big as did he potentially. These are crimes that are so serious that it would likely leave Sean Combs in jail the rest of his life or nearly for the rest of his life. I think he has an out option and that is popping a cyanide kill. He wanted to kill himself. He would have been dead already. But Choke, I mean, you might have said the same thing about Jeffrey Epstein.

Well, you didn't wait for the best bar yet. He's going to be indicted for the murder of Tupac and the notorious B.I.G. The shocking allegations leveled Sean Diddy Combs of burst the floodgates on salacious claims about an industry many people believe harbored a monster. Understandably, the internet's ablaze with claims about these events and whether other powerful figures were involved too. Well, last week I interviewed Jaguar Wright, a singer-songwriter who's made claims about Diddy for years. those claims that all received a lot of attention

in the media across many platforms for many years. And that's the thing about platforms. The relative of the modern world is that pretty much everyone has a platform as long as they have something to say that other people want to hear. That's why we invited her on to be interviewed. The people making these claims have an audience

with or without shows like mine. Well, Jack, you were right, unexpectedly made several serious allegations about Jay-Z and Beyonce during that interview. As I said in the moment, they were not present to respond or defend themselves. But now they have. Their lawyers' contact us to say that those claims were totally false

and have no basis in fact. And we've therefore complied with the legal request to cut them from the original interview. Editing interviews is not something we do lightly at a show called Unsensored. But, like the proverbial cries of fire in a crowded theatre, there are legal limits on us too. And we apologise to Jay-Z and Beyonce.

Well, now, Sean Diddy Combs is reportedly putting together an OJ Simpson-style legal dream team to defend federal charges on sexual assault, sex trafficking, and racketeering. Certainly looks like he's going to need all the legal help he can get. Well, last week, Houston attorney, Tony Busby, held a bombshell

press conference to announce he's representing 120 alleged victims of the rat mogul during which he gave new and disturbing details. When you talk about the ages of the victims when the conduct occurred, it's shocking. Our youngest victim at the time of the occurrence

was nine years old. We have an individual who was 14 years old. We have one who was 15. 25 of the 120 individuals who are plaintiffs in these cases were minors at the time of the acts complained of. In a moment, my panel will dissect and debate all of the legislative developments, shocking developments.

But first I'm joined by attorney Tony Busby, who you just heard speaking there. Mr. Busby, thank you very much indeed for joining me. I want to read you a statement overnight. from Janice Smalls Combs, who is Diddy's mother. And it came by her lawyer Natalie Figures. It says this, I come to you today as a mother that is devastated and profoundly saddened

by the allegations met against my son, Sean Combs. It is heartbreaking to see my son judge not for the truth but for a narrative created out of lies. To bear witness what seems to be like a public lynching of my son before he says the opportunity to prove his innocence is a pain too unbearable to put. into words. Just first of all, your reaction to that statement from his mother. That's exactly what I would expect the mother to say. You know, these allegations are shocking.

These allegations are egregious. And that's why they have court systems because we will ferret this out in the court system. We intend to prove our cases. Obviously, we're not going to prove our cases at a press conference. And, you know, with all due respect to her, you know, I've talked to these victims and I believe them. So that's exactly what I would expect his mother to say. Your hotline took 12,000 calls in 24 hours, including many new allegations involving minors. At the moment, there's no class action. Each case you take will be represented individually. But just the fact you've got 120 already that you're repping, and you're getting so many calls. What does that tell you about the scale of all this?

Well, you know, I know that's reported 12,000 calls in a 24-hour period, and of course, that's true. I want people to know that, you know, obviously, that's not 12,000 people claiming to be victimized by Sean Combs. That's, you know, a large portion of those people calling or calling with, you know, words of support. Others were prank calls and crank calls, as you might imagine, in this kind of situation. What's most interesting to me and what's most helpful are people that call that have bits of information, bits of evidence, video, perhaps pictures. And then, of course, we're particularly interested in people that had interaction with Mr. Combs and what they say happened to them and victims.

But, you know, I was trying to get my head around the fact that, you know, we're talking about thousands of people calling and hundreds of alleged victims. And how could that possibly be the case? But, you know, when you put that in context and you think about conduct that allegedly occurred over a 25-year period in multiple. different venues, parties every week, sometimes multiple times a week. And the same MO each time has been alleged. Typically, it involves some sort of illicit substance placed in someone's drink. And then that individual is coerced or taken advantage of. And that's kind of the overarching theme here. And so a lot of

these calls, you know, on first glance, you say, my goodness, that's just impossible that that many people would call with information or who have been victimized. But when you look at it in the context of a long period of time in a particular modus operandi, it makes a lot of sense. I mean, it's a numbers are staggering. You've also said that there are other big names that will come out in relation to these charges. He says the day will come. You said this when you start naming names. When will that day and how big are these names that we're talking about? Yeah, people are very interested in that, of course. That comment has been repeated back to me, as you might imagine, many times.

People are, you know, waiting with bated breath, hoping that, you know, I'm going to name these big celebrity names. But I can tell you this. I look at it in this context. If you attended one of these events, and we're talking about, you know, we've heard about the white party and the freakoffs and the after parties, but there's also, you know, impromptu parties at, studios, after parties from concerts, album release parties, hotel parties. I mean, the list goes

on and on. But in my view, if you attended those and you saw or knew that somebody was being given drugs, that their drinks were being drugged, and you sat by and either participated in some of this activity or encouraged this activity or allowed it to go on and help cover it up, or were in the room while it was happening and said nothing and did not intervene and perhaps attended more of these parties knowing that this type of conduct was going to occur. It's my view. It may not be the criminal justice system's view, but it's certainly my view that you're complicit.

And we intend to name people in these lawsuits. We're not going to do it in interviews. We're not going to do it, you know, without doing our due diligence because obviously, you know, these types of allegations are very hurtful to people if they're not. not true and very hurtful, frankly, if they are true. But if they're true, you shouldn't have been in the room and you shouldn't have been participating. So I anticipate that we're going to start filing lawsuits. And it may not be big names at first, but we have a long list of names. And you might imagine in situations like this, that when a victim tells us that this person was in

the room or this person participated, we want to do as much due diligence as humanly possible before we file that case. Because in the United States, in almost every state, public filings are in fact public. And, you know, when you've named somebody in a lawsuit, the press is going to pick it up and we're aware of that. So we're going to make sure that we dot our eyes and cross our T's, and I expect that there will be some people named in these lawsuits that will raise some eyebrows.

Right. I mean, how big an eyebrow raise will be talking about? Because you've been hearing a lot of names, presumably in the process of all these calls coming in. And you're a pretty smart lawyer, so you can probably work out the week. from the chaff in terms of legitimate, plausible claims here in terms of victims. I mean, I'll be talking about names as big as did he potentially?

I expect so. I expect so. You know, obviously those are the names that people are interested in, but I've tried to make sure people focus also on corporate entities to include banks and hotels and perhaps even pharmaceutical entities that were maybe not directly involved, but we're certainly benefiting and profiting from this kind of activity. You know, those I'm interested in as well.

But there will, you know, we've seen all over social media, the pictures and video of all the various individuals that attended these parties. And, you know, look, I was born at night, but I wasn't born last night. I know that at these types of parties, things go on. I know that there's, you know, sex is, you know,

occurs out in the open. things like that. That's not illegal and that's not probably actionable. What I'm focused on is when people are lured to these parties, coerced at these parties, given illicit drugs at this party, without their knowledge, and then they're taking advantage of. And people in the room know this is happening and participate in it and do nothing about it and then tacitly cover it up. Those people, in my mind, are just as liable as the individuals who engage directly in the activity. And of the 120 cases you've taken on so far, what percentage involve minors and what is the split of male and female alleged victims? It's about 25 out of the 120, but as you might imagine, since we did the press conference, that number is growing.

Sorry, 25 minors or? 25 minors out of the 120 clients, yes, sir. You know, and the miners, they kind of fall into two categories. One would be the category of individuals with stars in their eyes, trying to break into the entertainment industry, who were either scouted or somehow found their way to a studio or to a location where they were being screened. And either the allegation is Mr. Combs himself or those around him involved took advantage of these people and some sort of quid pro quo to try to make them a star. And, you know, in some of these cases,

it was the parents who were essentially handing their child off to a group of people that they trusted and who they thought were going to make their child a star. That's one group. The second group of minors would be individuals who were recruited, whether it be in a hotel lobby, whether it be at a show from the crowd, invited to a after-concert party that made its way to a hotel,

whether it be to some of the parties that we all heard about, they went there at age 16. You know, there's a few that, for instance, attended a party in the Hamptons and they were only 16 and taken advantage of there. So, you know, it pretty runs the gamut. But, you know, it's it's the allegations obviously are very egregious. We have to be very careful and responsible about how we pursue these. These are individual cases will be filed. Each case will live or die on its own merits. each case will have one or more defendants.

In some cases, they'll all, you know, they may be different. Some will be filed in New York. I would expect most of them will be filed because New York has a statute of limitations. It's pretty generous. New York State has recognized that these types of allegations, it takes people a long time to come forward. It takes a lot of courage to come forward. So New York has recognized that.

I think California has too. So I would expect most of these. cases will be filed in those two states. And we're going to pursue these cases aggressively. And the reason for the press conference is because, you know, I wanted to make sure that we, you know, Sean Combs obviously has been arrested. He's been indicted. He's that bail has been denied, I think, three times at this point. You know, I don't expect he's going anywhere. We want to make sure that every entity and every individual who had some role in this that, you know, that we examine that and if the law supports it,

that we bring them in and make them a part of this case as well. And just on that second point about the gender split here, there have been lots of rumors that it's not just women or girls who've been involved in being abused here, but also young boys and young men. Can you clarify how many of your own cases are male? I would say that number is 50-50. According to the client group, it looks like, if you were to graph it, the number of males increased dramatically after 2015.

You know, we've looked at this client group and vetted it in so many different ways, as you would expect, that you can see a trend that the number of males involved increased somewhere around the 2015 time frame. I don't know why that is, but that's what the numbers show. And based on the volume of claims you're getting, does that mean that these widespread rumors about Ditty's sexuality are likely to be true? Yeah, I won't comment on that. I can only comment on the allegations that are being made, that will be made in a public filing. And I'll let people draw their own conclusions.

But I will say that 50% of the alleged victims are, in fact, male. And that includes the minors that, were minors at the time of the allegations. I mean, it's truly shocking some of these statistics you're giving. In relation to tapes or videos and stuff that you've been told about or has come into your possession, have you seen material, evidential material, which in your estimation as a lawyer could cross the line into criminal activity?

You know, that's a difficult question. You know, as most of your viewers know, the standard of proof in a civil case versus a criminal case is very different. In a criminal case, you have to prove your case beyond a reasonable doubt. That's why the federal authorities, you know, they typically won't bring the case unless it's rock solid. And I'm sure they talk to a lot of people. They collected a lot of evidence. And, you know, from all of that, there's only three counts. The civil system is, the standard of proof is preponderance of the evidence. I like to describe it when I'm in court as more

likely than not. And so when you look at these videos and pictures and bottles of oil that I've received and other things that we've been given, you know, the piece of evidence, the piece of physical evidence or the video by in and of itself doesn't really prove anything. You know, you see a sexual act being performed on video, but you need a witness or the victim to kind of put this in context. You see some sexual act that's that was by a third party on video. You still have to have somebody to say, okay, that individual who was engaged in that,

that's who that is. And this individual who was engaged in that was was drugged, you know, and so that people are very interested into what do you have on video? And what do you have as by way of evidence? And ultimately in these kinds of cases, it ultimately comes down to he said, she said. That's every single time or he said he said.

And so. The most important thing is the credibility of the victim. And typically in these cases, the defense is always the same. When you bring these kinds of allegations against someone, the first defense is always attack the victim, try to destroy the credibility of the victim. And what I'm looking for is to make sure that the victim, that I have the evidence to put the victim in the room

with the alleged perpetrator, and then I try to collect witnesses and other data to corroborate what occurred. But ultimately, it comes down to the credibility of the victim and the credibility of the alleged perpetrator. And that's why we do a, hopefully we do a very good job on the front end and make it clear to these people who are calling in that make these allegations that, look, ultimately, you'll have to testify publicly in front of a jury in an open court and tell your story and you'll be cross-examined. and your name will be known. And that helps me, you know, do the fact-checking that we need to do to make sure that we're only bringing those claims that we believe are most credible. And unfortunately, sometimes people with real claims, real legitimate claims, you know, it makes it difficult for them to even pursue these.

And we feather in the fact that in many of these cases, the allegation is that the individual was drugged. it makes it even more difficult because this particular drug, this liquid G, they call it, which is basically a date rate drug, you know, it almost wipes your memory. So, you know, it's a herculean task with this many people making these types of claims, but just if there were just one claim, it's difficult enough. So this is a challenge. I think we're on the right side of this,

and we're going to pursue these aggressively as the court system will allow. And finally, Mr. Bosby, how long have you been a lawyer? Coming up on 30 years. Have you ever been involved in anything on this scale? You know, when the BP horizon explosion occurred and that vessel sank, we had, you know, obviously thousands of clients. I dealt with the Deshaun Watson cases, obviously not of this scope, but, you know, there was a lot of media attention.

But certainly nothing like this, you know, even I, and I think, you know, I didn't just fall off the turn of I've been around for a while. Even I was very surprised about the scope of this and the amount of people stepping forward who said they were victimized based upon conduct either performed by or orchestrated by Sean Combs. It's truly shocking. Tony Busby from Houston.

Thank you very much indeed. I appreciate you joining me. Thank you, sir. Thank you. Well, joining me now as the producer, director and hip-hop documentarian, Choke No Joke, the former federal prosecutor, Andrew Tchaikaski, and the uncensored contributor Esther Krakow. Esther, we've been sitting there.

My jaw would have been dropping if I wasn't doing the interview. Your jaw was dropping about what we were hearing there. Some real extraordinary detail about this Houston lawyer's 120 cases. What struck you from what you just heard? I think the most shocking thing. You saw my jaw drop when he said there are just as many men that came forward as women, and that actually it looked like the systemic abuse of men started really to ramp up in 2015. And I just, I can't believe it.

This is a complete monster, not because of the gender of his victims, but because clearly he had no limits. And I would actually, you know, say that with regards to what his mother said, the statement that she released, she's clearly in denial, right? Because you can't have this wave of people coming forward and this much evidence, even from the Cassie video, and still say that your son is innocent. Well, you see, that's interesting. That's bizarre.

You know, if I hadn't seen that video, I've always taken the view with all of these things, particularly since the whole Me Too thing blew up. You've got to wait for justice to be carried out. You've got to see due process tape back. It's so important. But when I saw that video, when I saw what Diddy was actually capable of,

in plain sight in a hotel corridor with this girl, that he was just beating up, that was so shocking that I thought that, wow, this guy, A, he's not the, the person I met several times, who was very charming and nice, he's somebody very different, and B, he's probably capable of pretty much anything.

Well, you know what made it worse? The apology video afterwards, where he didn't mention Cassie's name once. No. He sat there and pontificated about how he sought out. It wasn't an apology, was it? It was more of a, I'm in the shit here, I need to get out of it.

Well, yeah, it was just horrendous, and I think his mother is quite clearly in denial. I think on some deep level, she knows that this is a product of a household that she and I'm assuming his father ran. I never really think that people who are predators on that level just do it because somehow they get power and they can get away with it.

You really have to have a mentality, a psychology, that's imbued in you from a young age. He either grew up in an environment where respecting people, particularly women, was just not a thing, or he was entitled and raised with this idea that actually, if you amassed enough power, you can get away with systemically abusing people.

And I think we actually need to look at the households that produce a lot of these predators, a lot of these serial rapists and sexual assaulters, than just looking at them as individuals who've decided to go rogue. It's much more systemic than that. Let me bring in Choak No Joke.

You were part of Diddy's entourage, a commercial event a year ago, where he was welcomed like a king by fans and industry people. We've got some Ulay of that. This is Diddy, as we knew him before the scandal erupted. It was actually just before the video got leaked as well to CNN of him beating up his then-girlfriend at the time.

Are you as stunned as everybody else, choke, no joke about what's happened here to Dilley? First of all, let me say hello to you, Piers Morgan. I am surprised at a lot of the allegations, but I want to correct you. I wasn't a part of his entourage. I was there independently documenting as I do. I see.

You know, I know him from the past. So, yeah, I was there to document. the revolt. But you have attended, unless I'm mistaken, you have attended these freak off parties at the invitation of Diddy

on occasion. And there was one party that were Diddy try to come on to you and looked at him like he was Beyonce in a bikini, you said. You were invited by Diddy personally, an industry art of parties, said there were also women there

who were known in industry to be gay and so on. I mean, just when you say you're not shocked by some of this. Let me clear that up, because let me clear. clear that up because you like mashing a bunch of stuff together. All right. One, it wasn't a freak off party. Uh, sec.

Well, it may have been. I'm not sure because I didn't go inside. But this, it was a, and I wasn't invited by him. I was actually with Little Kim and Hillary Weston, who was Little Kim's manager at the time. And we had went to the BET Awards and then we went to an after party at the The after party is when Diddy or Sean Combs invited Kim to meet us at the CEO, Steve Rifkin's house. When we went to Steve Rifkin's house, which would be that after after party, I was at that house where that's where Diddy came on to me at. And there was a lot of people there.

But I was on the outside, the back porch of the house. I never went inside. Okay. So whatever went on inside, I didn't get to see. And when you say did he... He did come on to me at that time. Yeah, I mean, so tell me about that, I mean, what happened? As far as what?

Him coming on to you. He just made a pass at me, and I denied it all with looks, and that was it. How did you respond? And, well, that ain't well, that wasn't it. You know, once I realized that he was hitting on me, and I looked at my environment, and realized that most of the people there were gay or bisexual, then I caught on to where we were at, and I went and I grabbed Hillary Weston,

and I pulled out outside, and I told her, hey, Diddy's over here hitting on me, go get Little Kim, we are leaving, and that's what we did. Because there have been a lot of rumors about Diddy's sexuality, and I think it's only relevant in the sense that the lawyer I just spoke to in Texas, says the half of the victims that he's representing are male, which would suggest here that, and they're all connected in some way to Diddy,

obviously claims at the stage, but that would certainly suggest that Diddy is, at very least, bisexual. I would believe that to be true. From him passing on to me, a straight man don't hit on a straight man. Can I say one thing in regards to, To your last guest that was saying that his mother's in denial, I don't think that's a fair statement for her to say,

and I don't like the fact that she said he was raised in the household with a mother and father and blah, blah, blah, because I'm a guy that grew up in the projects. My mother always made sure I did right. My father always made sure I did right. But when I got on outside of the door of the other threshold, the streets told me different. And I did a lot of things that my mother couldn't even fathom today that I did. So when she says that, you know, his mother's in denial or she may be part of the reason for his behavior,

a lot of our behavior comes from being in the street and being in the industry. And I don't think that was a fair statement. I think you misunderstood what I was saying. I understood what I was saying. First of all, of course, individuals are responsible for their own actions, but individuals are not dug up from the ground or hatched from eggs. They're raised in homes. They're raised with values and cultures.

I'm not blaming his mother in any way, shape or form, but any parent whose child is accused of these sorts of crimes will undoubtedly just reflect and think, is there anything that I could have done. That's all I was insinuating. And also, she is in denial because we've all seen that Cassie video. Someone who is capable of treating Cassie like that, dragging her around like a rag doll, I'm sorry, you shouldn't be shocked when allegations of this kind come forward,

particularly with the stuff like a thousand bottles of baby oil in his home. First of all of that, and secondly, those poor babies that have been deprived of their moisturiser, right? At some point, if you're looking at it objectively, you cannot be surprised after that Cassie video came out that he is also capable of doing the things that are being alleged against him. That's not to blame his mother. That is to say, that if you're looking at this objectively,

which of course she won't be able to because it's her son, you have to believe there's an element of denial there. That's not to say that people who grew up in... Here's the truth. ...who always turn out this way. The truth is we don't know, right? We don't know. I think it's perfectly possible, as Chochno just said,

that you can be one thing with your parents. But if you then get out on the streets and you get led down various bad places, you could be something which maybe you're the one in denial to your parents. I can absolutely believe that to be the... But the truth is, we don't know. But look, she won't be the first...

and won't be the last mother to defend the indefensible with her son. Let me bring in Andrew here. You're a former federal prosecutor. We've heard from a civil case lawyer who's got 120 civil actions. And I said to him, you know, has he seen stuff that passes a bar of criminality? I've seen it's very hard to say because you need to go through the whole process of building a criminal case. From everything you're seeing about this case, do you think that there is any doubt that P. Diddy is going to end? end up going to prison for a long time.

There's a mountain of evidence against him. And the federal prosecutors who brought this case, especially in the complex way that they did, are sure to get convictions along the way. I think that their charge sheet is indicative of years and years of evidence that they have deeply investigated at this point, that will lead to undoubtedly convictions, and that will lead to a significant amount of jail time.

That said, there are going to be battles along the way, both in the criminal realm as well as the civil realm, because the devil is often in the details. So the prosecutors as well as the civil attorneys are going to have to prove their case, and in most of the situations, they're going to have to prove it on kind of a day-in, day-out basis.

On this date, this specific thing happened. The general idea that there were orgies that happened, or their general idea that drugs may have been present, or some people did drugs, some people had feelings like, if they didn't do this, they wouldn't be able to advance it. some of that stuff is not going to actually raise the charges with sufficient proof to prove either in the criminal realm or the civil realm. They're really going to have to get those criminalized elements or in the civil case things that look like criminal actions, the kind of removal of consent or the pushing through these acts without consent present.

And when you see over 100 people in a civil lawsuit, certainly there is concern that people are jumping on a bandwagon, perhaps they were present. and they're just saying that something non-consensual happened in one of those situations. So each of those cases are going to have to be tested. And I think the final point on, especially with Mr. Busby speaking earlier, saying that there are others that might be involved. I think the feds are going to be looking at all of those people involved and kind of giving them an option. Were you a victim?

Are you somebody who we can have, say, something against Diddy? Or is this something where you're part of the conspiracy and we're going to add charges? Similar in the civil case. he's not naming names. Is he trying to reach hush money kind of settlements here? I think that as he's pushing forward the narrative that there were many people involved, we want to hear those names and we want to be assured that there's not hush money agreements going on and that he's not simply dangling the idea that he's going to drop these names before he has the opportunity to reach a settlement. Yeah, I mean, on Fox News, their lawyer Brian Claypools, that if Combs doesn't testify

in this case, he's dead on arrival. you concur with that? Testimony is something that, I guess, has only some value to it, because of course he's going to deny it if he were to testify. I think what the case really comes down to is the corroborating evidence. It is difficult when an alleged victim goes in and simply testifies that this happened to me. Any case, whether it's criminal or civil, juries want some sort of corroboration. They want the feeling from the alleged victim that it happened and that it's reliable,

but they want to look at that surrounding information. So are there videos that show it? And how can you interpret the different things that are in the video? What does the timeline look like? The text messages, the conversation surrounding the events. So it's all going to come down to corroboration on those individual cases.

As I said, the devil's in the details are really going to have to prove the nuance of each case. Yeah. I mean, you chronicled the hip-hop world for a long time. You know, I can't pretend that I'm massively shocked that the hip-hop world is full of guys behaving badly and displaying at the very, very least rampant misogyny. I mean, the lyrics are full of it.

So there's been a kind of brazen celebration of misogyny for a long time in the hip-hop world. Is it really shocking that Diddy and potentially other big names in the hip-hop world have been holding out the carrot of record contracts and stuff and using their fame and money to drug and abuse people? Well, for me, you know, I've been in hip hop for 30 years, even before it was born. You know, I have a documentary out called The Hip Hop Nucleus, a documentary on the tunnel, which is out right now.

But I've been in the club since Diddy was performing at the tunnel. I've been shooting him before he was a millionaire. So I've seen all these guys come from nothing and go to millionaires, to multi-millionaires, to billionaires, allegedly. Right. But throughout my travels in the industry, once I got to a certain point like BET, I started to notice a different change in the industry where it was more of gatekeepers. And, you know, I had to succumb to homosexuality. There's drugs being passed around. And, you know, I don't do these type of things. You know, my mother's are recovering at it over 30 years. So I would never do drugs. But yes, these things are a point. of the culture and the sexuality is a part of the culture. And if you don't succumb to it, like myself, my career suffered because I didn't succumb to homosexuality or the drugs.

I mean, Esther, it's, you know, like I say, I can't pretend I'm massively shocked. It is shocking to see the scale of it. But am I shocked that top hip-pop stars, you know, were having pretty awful parties where they did pretty awful things. I can't pretend I am. I mean, I'm a bit shocked at the lack of judgment.

So Pete did he had friends, right? He had accomplices, he had friends, he had acquaintances, other than sort of the ground staff, the infrastructure that kept his sick operation ticking. You know, he had high profile friends. I'm not going to name them because I don't want to seem like this, but they were household names. There were celebrities in their own rights, they were artists,

they were actresses and all of that, all of whom, in the years that they've been friends with him, had at least seen or suspected some sort of sort of of character defects, to put it nicely. And they still remain friends with him. They still chose to associate with him. And I draw contrast to 50 Cent, who I hope in my life I never get on the bad side of because he is a complete bulldog.

He's ruthless. Right? But 507 and Eminem always made it clear that they never... Sorry? I said, can I say birds of a feather flocked together? Well, yes, exactly. All those people that you are naming about that's around Did he, been around him, All these people, they all circled and they praised him at his time.

Just one year ago, Diddy had the number one album in the country with the love album. He was celebrated. He got Lifetime Achievement Awards. He got the key to the city. They all celebrated him because they all play in the same cesspool. But now that he's in trouble, the reason why you don't see no support is because they might get pulled in. But did he live a rock star life? No similar to guns and roses and Arrowsmith.

All these guys had groupies. They all did drugs. They all went on tour. The only difference between R. Kelly and Hugh Hefner, is Hugh Hefner made it to the jail. I mean, made it to the grave with a smile on his face. All R. Kelly did was try to be Hugh Hefner. So all these people, they all, you know, is black and is white.

Well, Hugh Hefner. To be clear, hang on. To be clear, Hugh Heffner didn't sleep with minors that we're aware of, and R. Kelly did. I mean, Hugh Huffin. Yeah, but there's girls that he popped Kwaylose in their mouth. You ever heard a girl talk about when she first met Hugh Hefner? First thing he did was made them try drugs. He drugged him.

Yeah, I'm just saying that there was a difference between minors and adults who were on the face of it consenting. There's a difference. Well, the minors have not been proved yet. Those allegations, and trust me, I'm not. defending Diddy. I'm just saying let's not just make it about it's just Diddy and let's not put

allegations as facts until we see the facts. No, no. I'm not defending Diddy. Listen, I totally believe in due process. There are lots of people spraying all sorts of names out there making all sorts of wild claims. This scandal is getting bigger every day and we've got to remain

cognizant. A lot of people have their own agendas here. Might have their own fudes going on. their own scores to settle and so on. I was going to ask you, Andrew, just from a federal prosecutor point of view, when you get a name as big as diddy and there's lots of money flushing around in potential settlements, how wary would you be about people just trying it on for a cash grab?

I think that's a big concern that in the exploration to get to the truth, and that's what the prosecutors are going to be trying to do here is they're getting to the truth in a manner that they can prove beyond a reasonable doubt. There's a lot of evidence that they can use along the way. They can take the dozens and dozens of people that are making these claims and they can look to see if it fits into the wider scheme. Is that good evidence that they're going to be able to use to bolster their case?

And I think one of the big missteps along the way would be if prosecutors or if the civil attorneys put forward cases or allegations that fall flat, something that is proven to be inconsistent or something that shows that one of these folks was trying to create a, buzz about them or trying to go for a money grab, and then that infiltrates and pollutes the rest of the case. So the prosecutors, the civil attorneys, they've all got to be very careful to bring only truly credible cases of criminal acts, not people with regrettable positions that they were put in or things where they're looking back on this and trying to reframe it. Truly criminal activities are going to be the focus here and making sure that those cases are highly reliable.

Well, that was a bit like we saw with Harvey Weinstein, wasn't it, where there were many many women who came forward, but they were quite careful the feds in the particular cases they took so they could almost guarantee conviction. And I think that's what they'll probably be doing here is, I'd like you say, if you overdo it and you have too many cases you put forward and some of them are suspect and collapse, you can have a very domino effect on everything. So they'll be very cautious, I'm sure. Just on something else there, Andrew, new court documents revealed today show that Sean Combs'

lawyers have apparently made a third attempt for him to get bond. Now, one of the attempts involved $50 million, which in itself said to me, this is a very serious case against him, because for them to reject a $50 million bond was pretty unprecedented. The fact they keep trying to get it and keep having it rejected, what does that tell you? Well, it tells me that the judge sees this as serious as the prosecutors do. I mean, these are crimes that are so serious that it would likely leave Sean Combs in jail the rest of his life or nearly for the rest of his life. So the idea that if he were released, is he going to show up to his hearings on time? And is he going to not commit further criminal activity?

The judge is saying that he can't be assured of that. I think some of us are surprised that Sean Combs actually remained while the investigation was going on. After his house was raided, he didn't make the kind of grand flee effort to go to some sort of non-extradition type country. So I don't know where he'd go. He doesn't have a great kind of escape option, but these charges are so serious

that I think that you can put this in kind of the life sentence category, and it's really difficult for a judge to justify letting somebody out when charges are this serious and this grave. I completely disagree. I think he has an out option, and that is popping a cyanide pill.

That's the first thing PDD is going to do if he gets bail. He hasn't done it yet. I mean, he knew. he knew what was out there. He knew that the feds were locked in on him. If he was going to take the Sinai pill or if he was going to flee the country, he would have done it.

I don't know. I think he's so arrogant. Let me bring in Chuck. Because you know you know did he. Can I say something, please? Can I say something, please? Ma'am, I don't know who you are, right? But I would like for you to consider

that this is a man that has four children, right? There's more than four children. Seven. But he has four children. He has four children that don't have a mother. He has four children that don't have a father on the outside, right, along with the other children. So as a black man, right, I don't care how detrimental your life is, right? He's not killing himself and he's not fleeing the country with his children out here.

Like, please have some compassion for the fit, like... I'm sorry, this is a man who's facing sexual trafficking allegations. People might have said the same thing, though, Choate. If he wanted to kill himself, he would have been dead already. But Choate, I mean, you might have said the same thing about Jeffrey Epstein. Exactly. Many of his friends would have said he'll never kill himself, but he did.

He allegedly did. Who's to say that he killed himself? I don't believe he killed himself. I know the conspiracy theories. We don't know. It is believed he killed himself. But we don't know. Yeah, and ironically,

Pierce, the cameras wasn't working when he hung himself. I agree that there is a lot of stuff going on there, which is very much. I just think it's a bit too late for Peter D to try and start playing Good Daddy after the kinds of things he's being alleged or accused of committing. Including, including abusing

Cassie, which we have on film. Ma'am. Ma'am, I'm not saying Be Good Daddy. And his mother didn't deny or dispel anything about the Cassie video, she actually condemned him in that, but Pearson read that part. But what I'm saying to you is, the man ain't killing himself, and he's not playing good daddy. It's just the fact

that you love your children, good, bad, or indifferent. And I'm sure his children are very, very disappointed and they father, but at the end of the day, they don't want to see him dead. Of course not. But that's not what I'm saying they want to happen. I'm saying that this has got so bad, and so out of control that I don't think it's inconceivable that he will choose to end his life. Well, you didn't wait for the best part yet.

The best part didn't happen yet. The best part is... I believe, allegedly, he's going to be indicted for the murder of Tupac in the notorious B.R.G. I think that's what's coming down the pipeline. This stuff right here is serious. But I believe that he's going to be indicted for the alleged murder for hire of Tupac Choucault.

Can I ask you... Is that based on information that you know that you've been told? That's information on all the evidence that's out there. Right. But have you, I mean, do you believe that evidence is correct? Do you think there's enough evidence that says that he was involved? I believe from all the evidence that's been out there, all the people that talked on YouTube, that the quad hit,

did he was there with Jimmy Hinchman, right? Jimmy Hinchman had a problem with Tupac. This is why Tupac got shot at Quad Studios. Make a long story short, at the end of it, you have a guy named Gene Dale that works for Dittie that says that he saw a check that a guy named Eric Vaughn Zip had, and he told him that the check was for the murder of Tupac Choucault. Now, there's a YouTuber by the name of Doggy Diamond.

Gene Dill tells Doggy Diamonds, yo, you saw the check for Biggie's life? And he corrects me. He said, no, I saw the check for Pock's life. Eric Vaughn Zip had a check in his right back pocket, and he said it came from Black Ground Records, right? Well, Jimmy Hinchman was working with Black Ground Records. So if you tied the Tupac shooting,

at Quad Studio and you go all way to the end of it if there was a check allegedly, if this was true and Diddy did pay for the hit on Tupac and Shug Knight and that check came from Blackground and it leaves right back to the Quad Studios shooting

where when Tupac got shot Diddy was in the studio with Jimmy Hinchman but they don't tell that story they make it look like Diddy was in the studio with Biggie No, Biggie had went behind Diddy's back and got a deal with Atlantic Records and was having a secret meeting, I mean, having a secret recording session for the first junior, I mean, for the first junior mafia album, they was recording their first song. Diddy found out Diddy that Biggie was having a session. He came to choir. He was getting ready to bust in on Biggie. But the shooting with Tupac defer the plan,

but Diddy was going to be busing on Biggie to find out that he had a whole other deal. He was in there recording. So to make a long story short, Diddy and, or Sean Combs and Notorious Big Christopher Wallace had a publishing deal together. With that publishing deal, Notorious B-I-G is to write songs

and Diddy gets a portion of the money. What Biggie did, which was wrong, is he went and wrote all the stuff for Ludu Kim and Jr. Mafia and lied to Diddy and told him that they wrote their own stuff. So back the day before Biggie died, Gene Dale tells the story of how he was smoking weed with Biggie, and he was security.

He was not supposed to be smoking. Biggie told Diddy, that we need more security because Gene was high. So Gene in return tells Diddy, hey, man, Biggie, he wrote all the little Kim stuff and Junior Mafia. Big and Diddy jumps in Biggie face. Say it.

Say it. You wrote it? Say it. Say it. And Big is like, oh, man, come on, Diddy, come on, Diddy. Right? The next day, Biggie was dead. Well, that is what they call a dropped intro bombshell.

Look, there are lots of rumours to that effect. I haven't heard it's spelled out in quite the detail you just did. Absolutely fascinating. All I would say about any of it is I don't know what happened and whether he was involved in the shootings of Tupac or indeed Biggie. What I do know is that when I watched that video of him beating up his girlfriend in a hotel corridor, I thought this guy is capable of a lot of events. very, very nasty violence against people.

And so... I mean, we've seen him beat Steve Stoughtup. Yeah, yeah. We've seen him beat the dude at USC with the kettlebell. There's no secret that he's violent. No, no. I'm just saying, and if somebody's that violent, they're capable of pretty much anything.

I've got to leave it there. Fascinating debate. Thank you all very much indeed.