Piers Morgan Uncensored - ‘NOTHING Empowering About This!’ Can You Be An OnlyFans Girl AND a Feminist?

Episode Date: October 10, 2025

Can you be an OnlyFans model AND a feminist? Farha Khali says you can - and that she is living proof of it. She says she enjoys making her X-rated content and has made a staggering amount of money doing so. However Esther Krakue thinks it’s anything but empowering for women. Watch what happened when the two went face-to-face with Piers Morgan on the issue. Piers Morgan Uncensored is proudly independent and supported by:Birch Gold: Visit https://birchgold.com/piers to get your free info kit on gold. Oxford Natural: To watch their full stories, scan the QR code on your screen or visit https://oxfordnatural.com/piers/ to get 70% off your first order when you use code PIERS. Brooklyn Bedding: Enter our show name after checkout so they know we sent you! Visit https://Brooklynbedding.com for 30% off & use promo code PIERS! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

There's absolutely nothing feminist about what you do. You're basically, you've just cut out the middleman and you're commodifying the female body. There's nothing empowering about that. You'll give my question to you, why is it not degrading to get naked for your husband if it's degrading to get naked for public men? That's a very simple answer.

Is it because you assume your husband's more likely to respect you? Because it's in the context? Your husband is the man in your life, most likely to beat, rape and murder you. Your husband's a man in your life who's 58% of the time is going to cheat on you. My only worry is that what it's become is a kind of genuine career path

for a lot of young girls who might look at this and think, all I need to do is set up on OnlyFans account, take my clothes off, and a bunch of guys will pay money to watch me do my thing in a webcam or whatever it is. A British philosopher once said, you can't spread your bum hole on a Saturday

and then expect to be treated as a professional on a Monday. The evolution of gender and feminism is a source of endless debate in popular culture. I tackle the issue head-on in my new book, Woke is Dead, which includes some essential wisdom on the subject. I look forward to debating it. One question I admittedly did not think of tackling specifically was this one.

Can you be an only fan's model and a feminist? Farha Khalidi says you can and that she is living proof of it. Men paid a look at explicit content, blaming the women is just hypocritical. Esther Krakku, however, vehemently disagree. So when we heard that both Esther and Farha could be in the same studio at the same time, we thought what a perfect opportunity for a lively debate on this subject. So welcome to both of you. Esther, of course, I know you very well.

Farha, we've never met. We last appeared in a debate where you were down the line. We're talking about Lord's provocative new album, which featured a woman's pubic hair, I believe, on the cover. And you took a screenshot of our exchange. Let's look at the clip first. I'm saying nothing sexual about it. I don't disagree with someone what you just said,

but clearly this is intended to be sexual. I mean, it's not, you know, you don't literally. I don't think it is. I don't think it is. Really? And you now have that as the banner for your ex account? I thought it was a funny screen grab. It looked like you were my father confronting me with something you found on my Instagram. I was like looking away coily.

You can also tell I only own one dress. Basically, you're using me to promote your account. So I'm hoping for a share of the spoils. Of course, yeah. You understand that? Yeah. Okay, good. Let's get serious for a moment.

So OnlyFans is a massive business, generating billions of dollars, a lot of people doing all sorts of different things on there. It's not just about women doing sex work, whatever they want to call it. How would you categorize what you do on OnlyFans? I mean, my content isn't necessarily that extreme, but I definitely don't want brownie points from people who are eager to slut shame the women who do more extreme content. So when I go on platforms, I just call myself a digital prostitute because, you know, I want the backlash for it. A digital prostitute? An e-prostitute, yeah. What does that mean?

You know, like an e-girl or an e-boy, I just call myself like an e-prostitute. Like, it's online, it's not actually physical or in the real world or tangible, but it's virtual. And do you actually have sex on your platform or not? No, I'm actually a virgin. Really? Yeah.

Wow. And my name is Bob. What, you don't believe it? Absolutely not. Well, why would you lie? Well, I don't know what the connection is between, again, I mean, that's why I partly... Are you being serious?

Are you... I'm being dead of it. And that's partly why I do only fans. It's because I'm trying to point out that, like, you could be a virgin in a way that isn't about purity culture or religion. You could be a virgin in a feminist way, which means you don't want to bite the bullet and, you know, just join hookup culture or just put out just because society tells you to.

And I think it's really unfortunate that religious conservatism has a monopoly on abstinence culture because 45% of women regret their first time. 30% of women regret, like, a sexual experience in the last 12 months, right? So I'm very interested in carving out a space for secular women, non-religious women, women to also know that they can hold on to their chastity if they want to in a way that doesn't align with a toxic purity culture. How old do you know? I'm 26. 26?

Yeah. So, Esti, why would you not believe her when she says she's a virgin? I don't know many virgins that strip off and call themselves e-prostitutes. I think it's quite rare. It doesn't mean she's not. I mean, it's definitely a unique perspective. Can I just ask why? So it's empowering to take your kit off, and I'm assuming...

I don't know how extensive your portfolio is. What kind of thing you do on your, I mean, to categorize for those you've never seen. I mean, you just got to subscribe and see. I would say, you know. Absolutely not. That's a good marketing, though. Subscribe and see, but... Subscribe and see.

I mean, I offer a girlfriend experience. You could come on and I'll pretend to be your girlfriend for a little while, pretend to not be repulsed by you. I offer slutty photos and videos. And, yeah, I just don't know what the connection is to virginity, you know? There really is no connection. Well, I guess if you're massively sexualizing yourself, there'll be a presumption that you've had sex.

And it's quite interesting to me, that you say you've never had sex. Yeah. Well, that's kind of the whole point, right? That's what I'm saying, is like, people are unable to conceive a virginity outside of just wanting to appeal to the male gaze and being attractive to men. And I'm not a virgin because I think it'll make me more appealing

in the dating market. I'm a virgin because most women regret their first time. They regret betting the bullet, but our dating pool is full of horrible men. And I think women should wait more so that they're not just going through that wringer of sexual regret. Esther?

I'm really speechless, peers. You are? But I think I'm actually speechless. So you know, it's not that I don't have a response. First of all, this ideology, I mean, look, it's your personal belief and you can obviously do what you want with your body. I'm just confused what you find empowering about showing pictures of your anus on the internet. Can you explain that?

I can. Well, first of all, I just want to point out that like, it's really interesting to me that the first time the culture and men specifically are interested in talking about like the morality of sex work and how it's degrading to women and its effects on like the social fabric and namely its effects on relationships, it's conveniently once women's like me, started turning a seven-figure profit off of it, right? Up until the advent of only fans, it was exclusively feminist. It was exclusively women.

But there's nothing feminist about what you do. You do realize that. As I was saying, it was exclusively women. It was exclusively women. It was exclusively women who were the sole critics of porn hub. It was exclusively women who would protest things like Playboy. Like Andrea Dworkin put out a book on porn saying men possessing women. And in response, Playboy turned out these cartoons depicting her fucking other women, basically calling her a dyke and a man-hitting bitch, right?

Anytime women protested pornography, men said that you are vilifying male sexuality, and men were so eager to make porn anonymous with male sexuality, right? And I just think it's interesting. But that's exactly what you do. Like your customer base on men. You sell the girlfriend experiences to other women? I do have some lesbians on there, yeah.

Okay, but it's predominantly men. And I don't think there's absolutely nothing feminist about what you do. You're basically, you've just cut out the middleman, but you're basically working in the patriarchal economy and you're commodifying the female body. There's nothing empowering about that. I don't know what your definition of empowerment is,

but empowerment is not, momentary autonomy, which is basically what you do. I can do what I want. Every human being should be able to do what they want. Because by virtue of being a human being, you should have a freedom over your body. Empowerment is composed of three things.

One, it's, yes, exercising autonomy when you want. It's two, being able to make those choices responsibly and to live with the consequences, which I don't think you actually can or really have contemplated. Well, hang on. I agree. The third thing is making choices

that don't limit opportunities that you have in the future. There's nothing empowering. It seems to our best to play devil's advocate. It seems like she ticks all those boxes you would say, right? I mean, you know what you're doing. You're taking responsibility for it. I mean, I agree with what she's saying.

I'm not a choice feminist. I think choice feminism is intellectually lazy. I think the choices you make. Okay. What? There's choice feminism now. That's an interesting intellectualization. Please continue.

No, no, I say I'm not a choice feminist. I thought you were saying you were against choice feminists. Like, you were just saying that like, okay, me saying my body, my choice isn't morally interesting enough. But I used to have more than that. I'm saying there's nothing feminist about what you do. because it has nothing to do with female empowerment. All you've done, all you've done is cut out the middle of the middle of the question.

Why is it? Why is it? Is it the whole point of feminist empowerment that actually a woman can do what she wants with her body? No, I actually don't even agree with that. No, it's not. Wow, I've been a little of a garden power. Here would be my question to you. Why is it not degrading to get naked for your husband

if it's degrading to get naked for public men? That's a very simple answer. Is it because you assume your husband's more likely to respect you? Your husband is the man in your life most likely to beat rape and murder you. Your husband's the man in your life. who 58% of the time is going to cheat on you. Your husband's a man in your life who 50% of marriages end a divorce

and women say that they felt disrespected, right? So why are you assuming that by sexualizing yourself for your husband, you're reserving a seat of respect from a man versus sexualizing yourself for the public domain? Because you're not sexualizing yourself for your husband. You're engaging intimacy in the context of a committed relationship that has...

I'm sorry. He's 50% likely to cheat on you. 50% likely to end a divorce. But I'm sorry. Treating yourself like, treating your body like a bunch of orifices for hire is not more important. women that are in committed relationships that are married are much less likely to be in poverty than women that are not

They're actually societal benefits of women being in committed relationships and also not commercializing Loneliness in men which is basically what you're doing a man paying you a virgin which I'm assuming is because you've never had a relationship for the girlfriend experience is laughable. It is ridiculous I don't believe in the male loneliness epidemic Did you know a 70% of only fan subscribers or married men the male loneliness epidemic is absolute bullshit But the point is I don't have a problem At least time out. Time out. Let me just try and get my heads out around this. So I'm curious about the economics of this, because I'm told that, I mean, for instance, there's this woman, Sophie Rain, said to be only fan's biggest earner with estimates of up to $50 million a year coming from her business. I mean, how much are you making? I don't share the specifics, but I've made over a million dollars. Over a million dollars. In what period of time? In two years. In two years. You did train to go to law school.

right? I was initially planning on going to law school, but I started doing TikTok full-time straight out of college and then I was doing social media, yeah. What do your family make of what you're doing? Honestly. Well, my father's dead and my mom is tolerant of it, I think. She was more opposed to me even putting myself out there on TikTok when I was just doing like very casual skit content and stuff, right? So to her, this is just another extension of that. And extended family? You have any siblings? I do have siblings. I think they just find it cool, not necessarily the only. only fans specifically, but I think they think it's cool that I do social media and do stuff like this. I'm interested in this whole feminist empowerment thing, because I assumed, falsely it appears, that that meant the whole point of it was men shouldn't be telling a woman what to do with their body. She has power over what she does. She has power over her idea of femininity. She can do what she wants. If she wants to show off on her only fan's account,

to people prepared to pay to watch it, and it's all legal, Why do you care? I don't care, but I think the idea of calling it empowerment and somehow feminist is completely ridiculous. And this is why definitions matter. This idea that having momentary autonomy over your body is somehow empowering. I'm sorry, gorillas do that.

Like everyone, every living being should and does ideally have autonomy over their body. That's a pretty low bar. You're not comparing it to the gorilla. I'm not just saying every living thing objectively has some sort of autonomy over their own body. We're talking about empowerment, which is what feminism was supposed to be. Feminism was supposed to be about autonomy, obviously, and having choice over your body. It was supposed to be about allowing women to make choices that give them the dignity and independence to pursue their own lives as they see fit.

And also in pursuit of that, with the responsibility of making the choices that you're making, knowing that those choices will actually give you more opportunities in the future. None of what you do qualifies for that other than the momentary autonomy. Your options are not going to expand because they're pictures of your bumhole on. the internet right it's going to be a lot harder if you want to be a politician for example or a ceo or a lawyer because that's fine by the way that's fine but part of empowerment is also being able to make those choices responsibly and live with them are you in a relationship um yes with a man all yeah how long is that been going on uh it's pretty new and what does he feel about

what you do um he's supportive okay yeah he's actually been on this show do you know yeah hang on who is it you know dr jack sims yes when did i interview him Um, about... Does he know that he's being... No, hang on, I'm trying to remember who he was. No, he doesn't know I'm on OnlyFans. No, does he... Does he know that his relationship...

Wait a minute, Esther, I need to get the bottom. So, what was he on on Sunnis? Um, with Natalie Winters talking about, like, the Quran and sexual violence or something? Yes, I remember this, yes. So, did you meet him through this show? Through this show? Yeah, was he after you saw him on the show that you...

I think I'm sure he saw more salacious content elsewhere. Yeah, he subscribed to my only fans. He couldn't get enough. No, I met him. I met him at another, like, philosophy event we were at. But he knows what you do. Of course. And he's fine with that?

Yeah. Oh, okay. Yeah? Yeah. You seem a little bit, like, unsure. Well, it's not like some, like, he's going to be, like, ecstatic, jumping for joy about it. Really? But are you empowered?

Um, he's not, yeah, like, he's supportive, for sure. Would he rather you give it up? Um, I don't know. We haven't talked about it yet. It's a pretty new relationship. Right. Right. Mm-hmm.

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Use the code peers and get 70% off your first order. Get 70% off with the code peers. Anyway, why is it degrading for me to just have vanilla? If I were to just show myself, just naked, nothing degrading, I'm not getting shot on, I'm not getting pissed

on, I'm not doing nice by your mind. But why do you assume that even just being an state of undress, there's nothing degrading about it. For random people that don't know you. Why is it not degrading to do it for your husband? Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Now, I'm going to call you up on this. Because you, on your Instagram, do often post videos of yourself.

Pole dancing. And you're very good at it. But you're often quite scantily clad. What's the difference? Well, I need skin contact. First of all, I will tell you what. I have a photo. I need skin contact with the pole to actually grip the pole to do what I do.

Like, that's just the nature of the sport. And I certainly don't do it for the male gaze, and no one pays me for it. It's just a form of cardio and sport. Really? Yeah, it is. That's really difficult. You only do it for cardio?

Yeah, I only do it for cardio. Really? I promise, yeah. But a British philosopher once said, you can't spread your bum hole on a Saturday and then expect to be treated as a professional on a Monday, and this is my colleague right here. Why post it?

Why post it? Why not just do it privately? Because I want to. Look at this. I've never even been upside down on camera. I'm sure you've done other things on camera. What do you think of that? But you can subscribe and find out.

Why is this okay? Why did you have to post it? Why did you have to post this? Because I was in a poll club. Oh. And I did it for free. Oh, this is worse. You did it for free. I should get paid. I should get paid.

Oh, okay. Here's the thing. But why did you post this? Here's the thing. Were you teaching people? Because I wanted to. I've actually taught as well. Oh, but I thought it has to be empowering.

You can't just be your body of your toys. I'm not the one sitting on the internet, spreading my life. the internet, spreading my legs open, telling people to pay me for it, and then saying that's somehow empowering to women. If you knew anything about polo- Okay, so you're posting this and saying, I'm not saying this is empowering, I'm degrading myself, but I'm posting it anyway. How is that degrading myself?

Well, she's a very highly skilled poll dancer. Oh. Well, it is a- I was going to ask, what can you do, but I'm sure you'd have to subscribe to find out. But the point I was making is, you do realize there are gradations between domestic abuse and online prostitution. Do you recognize that?

Wait, explain. What do you mean? Well, you keep saying that what is the difference between getting naked from my husband who's 50% more likely to beat me up and 50% more likely to rape me in all the... He's the man in your life most like could kill you? So I'm asking you, why is it more degrading? That's domestic violence and actually what you decided is murder.

And what so... No, not just that. cheating on you as a form of disrespect. The fact that most marriages end a divorce with women filing for divorce because they felt disrespected either because of adultery, because of emotional abuse, physical abuse. They felt like their husband was at lesbian men. I'm not saying they should sell themselves.

I'm thinking I don't subscribe because of the worst case scenario. That by sexualizing yourself just for your husband rather than for the public eye that you are somehow doing it for someone who respects you more and loves you. How do you feel about the likes of Bonnie Blue and these others who are, you know, I'm going to have sex with a thousand men in 24 hours and stuff?

I mean, I see her kind of as more of like a performance artist. I feel like it's funny that people see her as like a consequence of feminism, but in reality she's more of a consequence of the male gays when she says stuff like, you know, anyone can fuck me like a married man, you know, 18 year old boy, a father, son duo. People are like, this is the ultimate logical consequence of feminism. And I'm like, no, it's not. She's literally holding up a mirror to the popular porn categories, which have like reigned at the top of the hub for the past like two

decades, right? So I think it's ridiculous that people associate that with feminism. Do you think it's a hypocrisy around the criticism? Are you not a consequence of the male game? that they see her as, again, like, the logical consequence of feminism, when she's basically just like the purest form of the porn industry, which feminists were protesting for decades. And suddenly now other people want to protest only because of OnlyFant. If you got married and had a daughter, would you want her doing this? I would be opposed to her making that type of decision

until she was at least, like, 23, 25. I'd be opposed to her even, like, putting, you know, posting with Esther posts until she's 23, 25. I'd be opposed to her having her sexual debut. allows women to do it. I'm 30. I'm not a child. I didn't say you were.

He was saying what I want my daughter to do it. I wouldn't even want my daughter to be having sex until she's like 23, 25, because when you look at longitudinal studies of sexual regret, you're least likely to regret those types of things. When your sexual debut, when you lose your virginity, is around 23. You can be 18 on only fans. That's the legal cutoff point to start doing... Yeah, and I'm saying I would advise my daughter to wait until she's 23

to even post like a bikini photo on Instagram because the rates of sexual regret in general just completely plummet after the age of 23. Do you know why sexual regret, though, is higher? It's not because of the age. It's because they're in the context of casual sex. Yeah, because of sexual coercion. And you're actually most likely to be sexually coerced

by a romantic partner rather than a casual partner. Women report being most likely to be reported into violent sexual acts by their boyfriend or husband. And that's why pimps, for instance, are so eager to employ the lover boy method because they know nothing gets a woman saying yes faster to a sexual act than playing boyfriend or husband. So when you talk about sexual regret and sexual coercion,

it's not more from casual sex, it's actually more likely to be caused by your boyfriend or husband. Does it concern you that? It's actually under the influence, it's also because under the influence of drugs and alcohol, which is when a lot of sexual encounters take place. And you're actually citing studies by the American Psychological Association, but you don't really know.

No, genuinely address it. What do you think of the fact that women are most likely to be pressured into sexual acts by a boyfriend or husband because that type of arrangement that you see is so loving and respectful actually primed her for coercion? Well, first of all, that's self-reporting. So we don't actually know the context behind it. And secondly...

Because you were just so eager to cite sexual regret in the context of casual sex and now that it's inconvenient now, you're like, well, that's self-reporting, it doesn't really count. No, but the point is, if they're in a relationship where they feel pressure to commit sexual acts, they're in the wrong relationship. And usually, do you know how to model a right relationship when you've seen it?

When you've seen people in healthy, stable relationships, I don't know why you jump from one extreme to another because you clearly have a very negative association with sex and hang-ups around it. And you just think, I'm just going to make myself safe by being this virginal weirder that spreads my legs on the internet, but somehow being in a health, healthy, stable relationship, which has actually been the prime conditions for building a society,

having loving relationships, raising children. I am a healthy, stable relationship. I'm not anti-relations. That's why he's so thrilled that you're on OnlyFans. But wait until you have that conversation. I'm sure he loved the mother of a child to have a bumhole spread on the day. Does it concern you that OnlyFans is owned by Ukrainian billionaire? He's making a fortune.

No, because it's empowering. Women like you do, what you do? Women have cut out the middlemen, so it's empowering. My point being he's a man. Does it bother you that? Well, industry isn't run by some male billionaire. I don't know what that has to do with anything. And that's kind of my point is I'm not going to argue that.

It's the patriarchy, isn't it? I'm not going to argue... I'm not going to argue that a lot of the sex work industry isn't rife with exploitation. But the way I see it is, like, you could look at the cocoa industry, and a lot of that's also rife with, like, really unethical labor practices. That wouldn't make it unethical for me to grow chocolate in my backyard and eat it, right? So I think we need to be able to separate the, like, immorality of, like, the supply chains and labor practices of porn and the actual morality of the products. So even if there's a lot of men taking advantage of these women and coercing them,

that doesn't make it inherently wrong. I hear you, listen, you've got a sort of machine. gun style of defending yourself. What I haven't seen much from you is a smile. I'm not entirely sure that you massively enjoy this. You have to subscribe for that, Piers. No, no, it's not that. I just wonder how much you actually enjoy it, whether it's a job and it's making you lots of money, but that actually, if you didn't have to do this for the money, you'd be out of it in a million miles an hour. Does it actually make you happy? I do enjoy it because I grew up in a pretty conservative Muslim household. And what's interesting about a lot of these purity cultures is that

they claim to be so anti-sex and in the process of it, they sexualize you relentlessly. You're constantly being sexualized. They're making sure, you know, your skirts are long enough, that your clothes aren't too form fitting. And I found that so sexually uncomfortable for me. And I find what I'm doing now, yes, I do find it liberating, having gone through that, yes. Do you? I do. What do you think? You could just be somewhere in the middle and just make decisions for yourself and understand that actions have consequences.

You don't necessarily have to sexualize yourself to feel liberated. Why did you post that? You didn't answer my question. Because you wanted to. Because you wanted to. Why did you post it? I don't just see myself as a sexual object. I'm actually intelligent. I'm confident. Oh, I'm not. I'm not.

Am I not intelligent to yours? She certainly strikes me as intelligent and confident. So what's the difference? Why is it okay for her to spread her bum home on the internet? But it's okay because she's also intelligent and successful. I'm also very intelligent and successful. I'm not charging people for it. And it's in the context of a sport.

That's worse. They're waking to you for nothing. Look at the runners in the Olympics, like the female 100-meter sprints. They're wearing literally bum shorts that show their bums and their legs. and a sports bra. But they're doing it in the context of the sports. If you were running like miles per day for free versus for money, so you're talking about something you have no experience of.

You've never, you've never tried Paul. You've never done anything. But because it doesn't qualify for the kinds of sports that's okay with you, you think you're drawing a moral equivalence. Pole is a sport. I didn't say it wasn't. But I'm doing that in the context of a sport. Okay.

Our gymnast. And mine is in the context of a job? Oh, okay. Well, listen, here's the thing. Bottom line, I don't really care what you do. I don't have a problem with it. I'm happy you're getting paid and you find it fulfilling. And I'm happy to enjoy pole dancing.

I'm happy you pick the sport that correlates with the form of sex work. You didn't have to do that. But you chose to do it because you enjoy it. There's nothing for empowering about what you do. That's just why I draw the line. Because there are women around the world, there are women around the world that don't have the privileges of living in a Western democracy like you that can call the police if they're getting abused. There are women around the world that are actually being pimped out by horrible men sleeping with probably a dozen men a day. Didn't I say that?

Didn't I literally just say that you have to be able to separate them? immorality from the product, from the practice, same with chocolate. Would you say, Peirce, would you say chocolate is objectively immoral? You're as much a hooker as they are. Would you say chocolate is objectively immoral just because the supply chains tend to be immoral? I don't think you can look at my physique and expect me to say chocolate is immoral. Well, chocolate is definitely. Only half an hour ago.

It's a fruit. It's a fruit. It doesn't choose through. Do you know what? I already think about this. It's interesting. I personally, my view of feminism, is actually that women should be able to do what they're like without men controlling their lives,

telling them what to do, blah, blah, blah. If you want to do what you're doing, and it's legal, and people want to pay for whatever it is that you offer up, I don't care, it's fine. My only worry is that what it's become is a kind of genuine career path for a lot of young girls who might look at this and think, all I need to do is set up on only fans account,

take my clothes off, and a bunch of guys will pay money to watch me do my thing privately in a webcam or whatever it is. And I think that is the bit of it that concerns me. A whole generation of young girls think a bit like they did with the Kardashians in a different way is that there's a shortcut to fame and fortune

that involves no actual skill. It doesn't mean you're not intelligent, doesn't mean you're not beautiful, any of those things. It's not a skill. Anyone can do it. And are we creating a whole job? generation of young girls, you think this is a better career path because it's more lucrative than doing actual skills. Initially said, like, when they asked me, like, I don't share my income

publicly. This was the first time because, like, I don't want to encourage women to go into it. I always say in every podcast appearance I do, that I don't think girls should go into it. The average income you make is $100. The median income is $30 a month. And for me... On only fans? On only fans. For me, I was already sitting on 2 million followers. I was already doing social media full time. I knew it's going to be able to retire off it and cash out off of it. That's not the case for my woman. When do you want to retire? When do I want to?

When do you want to get out of it? Um, I mean, I love doing it. I think it's so fun. So, I mean, I'll keep it going for... Or do you just love... Do you love the money? Be honest. I'm going to be honest with you.

I love this more than the money. I love defending it. I love the smoke. But if you were making... I love being sludge shamed. I think it's really fun. Well, I would trade all the money in the world for this. I've got no intention of slut shaming.

I think it's entirely down to you. Well, you're not in a position, too, because you're upside down on a pole and stuff. Because I'm athletic. Anyway, no one's... So if I do that on OnlyFans, I'm skilled now? Would you be... Would you be supportive of my OnlyFans if I did everything upside down?

If you... I actually follow pole dances, many of whom are former gymnasts, that actually do this. And I don't have a problem with it. Again, I don't know why you think I'm so invested in your life that I care about what you're doing. The point that I'm making is there is nothing feminist or empowering about what you're doing. Empowerment means you actually create opportunities for yourself. There's a long-term look at... She has.

Hold on. There's a long-term perspective of empowerment. A heroin addict doesn't create long-term opportunities for himself because he's doing it. He's engaging in momentary autonomy of taking in heroin. If women that fought for the choices of women wasn't because we want to. You know a difference, sir? Heroin. Hold on. Here's my first.

Hang on. Hang on. Because you cannot become a lawyer. Ladies. Because you cannot become a lawyer or a politician because there will be pictures of your butthole on literally billboards around cities. Do you think if you ran for office that photo would not be plastered all over every commercial? I would say you're on this woman running your state or your country?

Yes, that's fine. That's fine. Then it's fine for me too. We agree. Oh, okay. So... Got to say, I don't think either of you are actually going to become politicians. Why? Are you? We got any plans to? That's racist. But the thing is, I just...

I think there's something deeply offensive about the sacrifices that women have made to give women the choices to be able to advance themselves in their lives and actually pursue things that they want and being compared to online prostitutes, which are a bunch of 20-something-year-olds that generally just don't want to be waitresses and actually just want to get easy money online. I think there's something deeply offensive about that. Well, it's an interesting debate.

And I'm not slut-shaming you for one moment. And I think you put up a good defense. I think you like the controversy. A good critique. I think it's an interesting debate. I suspect my bet is that you'll be out of this in about three, four years. Well, nature has something to do with it. Most people don't want to pay a 45-year-old for the girlfriend experience.

Well, on that, bomb, shell, we will draw things to a close. Thank you both very much. I appreciate it. There's something more important than good sleep, and it's probably time you're upgraded yours as I have with our sponsor Brooklyn Bedding. Brooklyn mattresses deliver top-tier quality on its pricing and true American craftsmanship.

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