Piers Morgan Uncensored - 'People Got BORED of YOUR Schtick!' Piers Morgan vs Joy Reid | With Michael Knowles

Episode Date: July 17, 2025

Many saw Donald Trump’s election victory as the culmination of a huge backlash to identity politics and its unhealthy obsession with racial justice, woke activism and demonizing opponents. Joy Reid was a strident advocate for all the above - until she was sacked from MSNBC, following plummeting viewing figures. She joins Piers Morgan to answer questions about some views she’s voiced that put her in the firing line - before Piers is joined by one of Joy’s biggest critics, host of ‘The Michael Knowles Show’ on Daily Wire Michael Knowles plus Senior Fellow at the Institute on Race, Power & Political Economy, and former Democratic Senator for Ohio, Nina Turner. Piers Morgan Uncensored is proudly independent and supported by: Dr Gundry MCT Oil: Watch- Dr. Gundry: Heart Surgeon Begs Americans: “Stop Doing This To Your Blueberries" Find Out here: https://TheHealthyFat.com/MorganTax Network USA: Call 1-800-958-1000 or visit https://TNUSA.com/PIERS to meet with a strategist today for FREE Ridge Wallet: Upgrade your wallet today! Get 10% Off @Ridge with code PIERS at https://www.Ridge.com/PIERS #Ridgepod Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Do you think books, all right, do you think school children at school should have access to books in their library, which involves drap on dildos? If the person is brown, they need to be rounded up and put into quote-unquote alligator alcatraz, a concentration camp in Florida. If the person is white, we let them start a business and become Elon Musk. Do you know how many people Barack Obama deported in eight years? I don't know and don't care. You don't know and you don't care. The majority were brown. Absolutely in disingenuous argument here, because this is your schick. It was your stick. It is your stick.

It was your stick. People got bored with it. Have you watched Brokeback Mountain? No. You posting on your blog that you wouldn't watch Brokeback Mountain because you don't want to see two male characters having sex. Your words not mine, joy. And your point is... I've actually got Michael Knowles waiting in the wings.

Great. Is there anything you'd like to say to it? The Maga Base is at war over the Epstein files, but hostilities have not ceased on the Democrat side either. This week, former President Obama told the DNC fundraiser that it's time to toughen up and stop whining, naval gazing, and being in fetal positions. He urged Democrats to stand up for the things that you think are right.

The problem, of course, is that Democrats don't agree on what they think is right. They are only united in saying that Trump is wrong. That point was illustrated in colourful language by former CNN host Chris Cuomo. I don't give a fuck how many likes you get on your comments by hating Trump because it doesn't win the race. You get 42, 44%. That's what just happened.

Trump sucks doesn't win the race. My frustration is with you thinking you keep doing the same thing, which is just pound on this fucking guy, which is easy enough to do. But you don't win the race. So now what you're doing is doubling down on Trump's side. by outrage and making your own MAGA. I don't think it's going to work for Democrats. Well, eight months on from the election, it's not clear who is leading the opposition

or which direction it will choose. There are the pragmatic centrist like Josh Shapiro and Pete Buttigieg, who are socially liberal, but hyper-focused on electability. And there are the radicals like AOC, Bernie Sanders, and Mamdani, who want to burn it all down and start again. Many people, myself included, saw Trump's victory

as a culmination of a huge backlash to identity politics, this unhealthy obsession with racial justice, woke activism, and demonizing opponents. Many people, including myself, saw Joy Reid as a strident advocate for identity politics, exhibiting an unhealthy obsession with racial justice, woke activism, and demonizing opponents. But she can respond to that because Joy Reid, who hosts the Joy Reid show on YouTube, joins me now. Joy Reid, welcome to Unsensit. Appears, thank you for having me.

Well, we've never met, I don't think. We've never spoken to each other. I think we've locked horns a little bit on social media in the past. I think I'm blocked by you on X. I can't remember what crime I committed, but probably Trump-related. Just first of all, what Barack Obama has said and what Chris Cuomo said there, has that given you pause for thoughts about what the Democrats should now do? Because it's all very well just shrieking constantly about how evil Trump is. But it clearly hasn't worked now twice.

you know, the fact that the guy went away for four years and then came back and won again was an utter repudiation of the tactics to be him, wasn't it? Well, first of all, I'll say I have not blocked you on X-Twitter because I haven't been on X-Twitter since Elon Musk acquired it. I actually left the platform. So there might be someone posing as me who's blocked you. So I think it was prior to Elon's purchase. Okay. All right. Well, so this is an interesting conversation because there is no one who is more obsessed with racial identity politics than Donald Trump. He ran the most racial identity politics-laden campaign that I've seen in my lifetime, and I've been following politics

since I was 12. The point of his campaign was, if I was to sum it up, that immigrants, whom he identified as gang members from Venezuela, as people from S-whole countries, as essentially any non-white migrant or immigrant in the country were vermin who were poisoning the blood of our country. Well, he was talking about criminal illegal immigrants. He was talking, hang on, he was talking, but you can't, you can't miss quote him off the top. This is my point, though. This is my point. Let me just say something, joy. I remember when he won in 2016, I was at the New York Knicks the next day with my eldest son, and Chris Rock was there at the next table. We got talking. I said, why do you think Trump won? And he said, you know why he said, if someone's murdered eight,

people. Stop going around saying he's murdered nine. And he didn't mean Trump would actually murder anyone. What he meant was there's plenty to criticize Trump about. I've done it myself many times. But there's also a lot of stuff that resonates with people. And I think it's the over-exaggeration, the over-demonization of Trump is part of the problem. And your characterization of his depiction of immigrants, you said the word immigrants, actually what he was talking about repeatedly on his in his rallies was specifically illegal immigrants who come in illegally who are criminals, who are already convicted criminals, who've come into America across the southern border in huge numbers who are criminals.

He wasn't talking about non-criminal immigrants, as you tried to put it there. So there is a difference. No, first of all, it's absolutely false. Let's talk about, for one example, the Haitian immigrants in Ohio. These are people who were in the country on a legitimate visa who were actually improving that community by taking jobs desperately, where people desperately needed to hire and did not have enough American-born employees. And they were hiring these folks. They were taking badly needed jobs. They were improving the community economically.

He accused them of eating people's cats and dogs. He characterized them as if they were animals. These are people who his own administration had allowed into the country on a legitimate visa. But I agree with it. First of all, stop, stop. Let me just think of thought. So his all-encompassing term about immigrants being vermin and poisoning the blood of the country was all-encompassing because it included them. And in his mind, it included anyone who he said came from an asshole country, meaning if you came from Nigeria, if you came from the Gabon, if you came from any country in Africa.

He in a blanketed way depicted immigrants, again, with Nazi terminology, vermin. Well, let's leave Nancy, Adam. You know what, whenever people... And wait, let me first with my thought. And now, it's taking you what? It's taking you four minutes and you've called him a Nazi already. Come on. But, and now, and now what we're seeing are masked federal agents sweeping up cooks, abuelas,

people who work on farms, picking up dishwashers, any brown person, and Tom Holman said, based on one criteria being their appearance. It's overwhelmingly brown and some black people. We're not seeing them sweeping up white folks on the street. Donald Trump ran a racial identity campaign, and yet, this is America. That is appealing to, unfortunately, a lot of Americans.

Well, actually, it turned out to be very appealing to Latino Americans. who voted for him in record numbers, more Latinos voted for him than voted for Kamala Harris, the non-white candidate. More black Americans, African-Americans, voted for Trump this time round

than first time round. So for this... Not true. Statistically, it was the same. No, no. It was actually... More black Americans voted for Trump this time than last time.

It was the same. And by the way, this is the other challenge. There is a phenomenon. And my family are immigrants. And there is a phenomenon among immigrants of slamming the door behind themselves. And by the way, more Latinos, you know, women in the Latino community voted for Hayt Harris. But there is a phenomenon if you talk to people who actually are in the community

and study this and spend a lot of time on it, journalists who studied it. There are a lot of Latinos who want so badly to identify with Americanness that they identify against fellow immigrants. That is not a new thing. Maybe they weren't identifying. Maybe they weren't identifying, but joy. That's not new. Maybe they were just...

Maybe they were just... Let me respond to that. The Latino community is not new. Let me respond to that. Maybe they were just sick and tired of people like you. And I say misrespectfully, but people like you constantly calling Trump a Nazi. Maybe they thought it was ridiculous.

Maybe don't call people vermin and say the poison the blood of our country. That's not determinity. You have repeatedly... You have repeatedly, over the last few years, called Trump a Nazi. Now, the Nazis were the most despise. despicable, awful human beings we've seen in a thousand years. They committed, they murdered 12 million people, six million Jews in a Holocaust.

Trump is on a Nazi. So when you do that, when you do that, you thought it, let me finish. Hold on. You've just done what you normally do. I have not, I have said he uses Nazi terminology, and that's a fact. Saying people are poisoning the blood of our country, that is Nazi talk.

That is what I have said about Trump. I will stand by it, because if you're calling people vermin and saying that they're poisoning the blood of our country, you are lifting language out of the Nazi playbook. That is very different from saying that Donald Trump is perpetrating a Holocaust, such as in the 1930s. But what he is doing is straight fascism.

That's not me saying it. Mark Millie, his former Joint Chiefs of Staff Chair, said that he is a fascist to the core. His former Chief of Staff says he's a fascist, and the things he's doing, masked men snatching people off the street, not even showing any identification as law enforcement. Let me ask you a question.

Men, dragging women, men, children into vans, fascism. You've made this point. I will stand by that any day. Let me ask you a question about immigration. It's a very interesting topic at the moment, as you rightly observe. What are the fruit you eat to stay healthy is actually making you fat? According to heart surgeon, a nonsensor sponsor, Dr. Steve Gundry, many Americans are making a common mistake with fruit that can cancel out its health benefits.

Some fruits support digestion and even help burn calories, but others can disrupt your energy levels and stomach health. Dr. Gundry reveals the top three fruits to avoid, in a viral video, that's already been viewed by more than 20 million people. In it, he explains simple changes that can improve energy, reduce brain fog, support digestion, and even aid weight loss. You can watch a full presentation for free at thehealthyfat.com slash Morgan. That's thehealthyfat.com. Morgan. It's also in the show notes. Don't miss this opportunity to learn how a few simple changes can make a big difference to your health. Visit the healthy fat.com slash Morgan to find out how. So my view, for what it's worth, as somebody who is an exceptional alien is how I was described on my visa to the United States, but I have a home in Los Angeles.

And I love America. I've lived and worked there for 20 years. My view is that most Americans, I think instinctively, do not have a problem with the principle of deporting undocumented workers who commit crimes in the United States. Would you have a problem with that as a policy? As a policy, if people get a hearing and they go through a process, sure. But that is not what's happening. No, no, I'm going to come to the next bit. Hold on. That is not what's happening here. I'm going to finish my point.

It's not what's happening. I wanted to see what you were prepared to agree with me about. because I think it's healthy to the debate, right? So we both agree about that, which is good. Now, I don't think that they should have pressed the button on deporting as many illegal immigrants who are there undocumented, but you've not committed crimes in the way that they're currently doing.

That they should have sorted, first of all, people who are in the country illegally who commit crimes and deported them. Everyone would agree with it. But I agree with you, the wholesale pulling of people off the street who may have been in America for many years, got families in America, pay taxes in America.

You know, you have to talk to farmers to understand the devastating impact this may have. So on that, I would agree with you. But I also think that, and I hope you would agree, that Donald Trump has pretty much stopped completely the number of people coming over the southern border illegally. And under Joe Biden and Kamala Harris, over a four-year period,

as many as 10 million people are believed to have come over the southern border illegally. Now, you must surely think that the Trump way of security the southern border is better for the United States than the Biden way? First of all, if those are Donald Trump's numbers about how many people came in over the southern border, I don't buy them at all. What numbers do you buy?

I don't trust anything Donald Trump said. What numbers do you buy? And let me go on. Well, how many do you think it was? Let's just say it was 10 million. What, Joy, how many do you think it was? No, let's just say, I'm going to stipulate to you, let's just say it was 10 million people. Are you asking your viewers to believe that 10 million, you know, that 10 million, you're going to

10 million people were in the country raping and robbing rather than working on farms, working on construction. No, I didn't say that. We have to recall that there. Again, being in the United States without documents is a civil offense. It is not a felony. And so the reality is if it was 10 million people, we have to ask ourselves, what is the poll? America has always run from the time that people who looked like me were enslaved on cheap labor, on free labor to start itself as an empire,

and then on a constant pull of cheaper and cheaper labor. That is a pull that is pulling people over. And then, of course, there's the push of the destabilization in central and South American countries that is the push. That push pull is a fact of life. And it was a fact of life when Donald Trump was president the first time. What's that going to do with how many come over the southern border illegally? No, the difference is now, if you, let's say where you end all,

undocumented migration to the United States. All that would do is put a burden on the poll part of it because you have industries that desperately rely on farm labor, on construction labor, et cetera. But why shouldn't you have a system? Okay, but joy, why shouldn't. Freezing it to zero does nothing to change my life better. But what it's done is you're having people.

Let me just ask you, why shouldn't people do what I had to do when I wanted to live and work in America? I'm going to just go through a proper process and get accepted to be allowed to into the United States. That is how a normal, well-controlled border works. So what you seem to be suggesting is that because America's economy needs a lot of workers, we should simply have a system where anyone can come in. And if that's not your belief, then how would you regulate the southern border? I'm going to say to you that if the policy were applied the same across the board, that would be one thing. It's not. Marker Rubio's grandfather didn't do it the right way. He

overstayed an order of deportation, stayed anyway, and was allowed to remain in the country. Elon Musk's brother says, and Elon Musk disputes it, but Elon Musk's brother said they overstayed their student visa, started a business which would have been illegal for someone on a student visa, we're allowed to stay. They are white migrants, and somehow that was okay. What we're seeing is a selective enforcement of this outrage. If the person is brown, they need to be rounded up and put into quote-unquote alligator alcatraz, a concentration camp in Florida. If the person is white, we let them start a business and become Elon Musk. What's happening is that Stephen Miller has said he wants four, what, 3,000 people a day rounded up and he has said he doesn't care where they have to

get them. He wants ice going into Home Depot. He wants them going on construction sites, going on to farms, and dragging brown people into detention, they're putting people in private prisons that are unregulated by the federal government. We've heard stories of people eating rotten food, having to use the same water. You still haven't told me what you would do. And so the reality is what we have right now is we have a system of literal terrorism against brown migrants simply because Stephen Miller does not want them in the country. As you know, they're not all brown, as you know.

But a vast majority are. Well, but you haven't answered my question also. So if you were running the southern border, if you were in charge, if you were the border czar, what would you do? Would you let them all in? Or would you stop some of them coming in? The first thing that I would do is to look at some of the actual legislation that's been put on the table before. You have a very small number of immigration judges who deal with people who are presenting themselves for asylum, which, by the way, is perfectly legal. It is legal to present yourself for asylum, but there are scarcely any judges doing that work.

Multiple times, bipartisan, you know, members of Congress, the House and Senate have tried to pass legislation that would increase the number of those judges. If you actually had enough people to adjudicate asylum cases at the border, it would make that easier. I've actually been to the southern border and looked at the process and looked at the previous version of detention that Donald Trump did in his first term. First of all, it was horrific and it was abusive even then to children. And why you were outraged by Barack Obama's deportation? program of over three. Oh, absolutely. Oh, absolutely.

And I think that Barack Obama made some compromises that I do not think were morally sound in order to try to lure Republicans into doing the immigration. Do you know how many people he deported? Since Marco Rubio, Brockton joined the gang of eight. Do you know how many people Barack Obama deported in eight years? I'm sure you're going to tell me. Well, what are you guessed? I don't know and don't care.

You don't know and you don't care. You've just given me. Because it's not the issue. You're trying to make the issue the southern border. You've just given me, Joy. Joy. No, no. The point is, Joy.

The point is, you've just given with Joy. Joy. Joy. Joy. Let me finish. Uh, nursing babies apart and taking. Joy. Joy, you've just given me.

I don't know. You're, I'm sure going to tell me it's your main issue. You've just given me a late. But it's not my main issue. Joy. Joy. Joy. Joy.

Joy. I'm trying to finish my sentence. Please. Please. He's given me a lengthy monologue attacking Donald Trump's aggressive deportation policy. And I've simply said to you there was a Democrat, a black Democrat president of the United States for eight years.

I'm simply asking, given that you're obviously all over every detail of the Trump deportation policy and given you were on the airwaves in America on a daily basis through Obama's tenure, how many people did he deport in eight years? I do not know. You'll tell me I'm first. I'm sure. Have a guess. But it's probably more than a million people. I'm quite certain. Have a guess. Because I think each two million. It was three million. Okay. And your point being what? My point being, are you as you are shocked by that as you are claiming to be by Trump?

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It is not deportation. Many of them were brown. Wait a minute. In fact, the majority were brown. One moment. It is not deportation in and of itself that is what is shocking to people. There are two things that are shocking. Number one, well, I'll do three.

One, it is not deportation to render someone to a third-party country they have no connection to. I agree. Rendering people to El Salvador is shocking. And that's why he's coming back. That was not done by Biden. That's why that guy's coming back. Right. So that's right. So that is shocking.

Number two, deporting people with deporting, well, that's only one person. The case you're talking about is come back. To that gulag. Yes, but they deported more than 200 people, 70%. of whom CBS has determined had no criminal record. But why are you changing the subject from Obama's deportation policy? No, no, no, I'm telling you the three things that are shocking are not deportations themselves. It's deporting people, number one, two third-party countries like the Sudan, where they have no

ties whatsoever simply for the cruelty of doing it, essentially paying third-party countries to take that. Number one. Obama deported more people than any president in American history. If someone receives peers, my family. are immigrants. If there's the deportation process, at the end of that adjudication, you are deemed to be deportable and need to be deported. That's a process. Boy, I'm trying to, I'm trying to politely ask you, do you condemn. Here's my point. In the interest of fairness, do you condemn Barack Obama's deportation policy given that he deported more people, let me finish,

more people than any American president in history in his eight years. What an absolutely in disingenuous argument here's because what people are disin, yes, no, I'm going to, I'm going to explain it if you'll allow me. You didn't even know how many he deported. Because I just said that, first of all, I think it was a moral compromise that I disagree with vehemently. A moral compromise. To try to lure Republicans who were never going to really come to the table for immigration reform. I disagree with what he did. But if there's a process for deportation, that's one thing.

If you are rendering people with no process, if you are rendering them to third parties, and if you are kidnapping them off the streets, as if this is 1930s Germany or South Africa in the 1980s, yeah, that is what I find objectionable and I find fundamentally fascist and will stand by that every day. What Donald Trump is doing is a moral horror. And if you can't see that, I don't know what to tell you. I hear you. All I'll tell you is that Obama deported a her. But that isn't the issue. The issue is, most of them were brown.

And last time I checked, Barack Obama isn't white. So it may not be a race thing. And what does that have to do with Barack Obama being black? No, you're the one obsessed with race. You want to make this a racial argument. The argument is that the Obama administration, the Biden administration, because Donald Trump fix-sating black people is supporting people based on Mexican-gall. Well, it is what he does.

So did Obama. As a matter of course. Obama did it too. Only worse. It's what his politics were all about. His politics are about removing as many non-white people, clearly from the country as they can, 3,000 a day.

And that's what Obama's policy was to. That's apparently the policy here. No, it was not. And there was no rendering of people. There was a process for deportation. As we sit here, and you know that it's materially different. As we sit here, Obama deported more people pro rata per year than Trump has ever done.

Did he render to a third party? How many did he render to a third party? Because what he's also doing is using the cruelty of the crime. I'm absolutely outraged by fascism and by snatching people off the streets. No process. He's not. Absolutely. I'm out of marriage by it.

Because Obama's got brown skin, he's not a fascist. Is that your policy? Well, that's your simplistic, racialized way of looking at it because that's what you're doing on this show. Of course it is. No. Let's move on. I want to move on. I don't want to spend the whole time to want.

black person that baths the way he does. Trying to take people's citizenship away, denaturalizing. That's ediamine behavior. There's a black fascist that you can compare it to. Okay. Let's move on to, I want to just play a clip of when you lost your job at MSNBC. Let's watch this. My show

had value and that I'm sorry. That what I was doing had value. And in the end, I'm sorry. I try not to cry on TV.

Whether it's talking about any of these issues, and yes, whether it's talking about Gaza and the fact that we as the American people have a right to object, to have a right to object to little babies being bombed. And I am not sorry that I stood up for those things because those things are of God. And, you know, I'm a church girl too. and those are the things that I was taught were of God. And so I'm not sorry. I'm just proud of my show. Now look, you're perfectly entitled to be proud of your show.

Many people enjoyed your show for many years. You know, a lot of people at NBC were briefing that the reason was declining ratings post-the-election, a 47% decrease in your elections in ratings from pre-election. But you told Mark Lamont Hill on his show this. after I said on my show that the reason Americans could relate to Ukrainians in a way that they didn't relate to Palestinians, that Ukrainians are white. And so watching white people get their schools bombed was, you know, we hit different. That hit our ratings. I mean, we could see the loss of white viewers from that moment that I said that.

So they were like, we don't like the name calling. And also I'm a black woman. So, I mean, I'm sure he makes him angrier, you know, when I say things. Maybe because I am a global South person myself. You know, I mean, as a black person, we have a different empathy toward other global South people when they are suffering. And so we're going to come at that story from a different angle in a different way and with different kinds of empathies. And I think that's not always received very well in the news business. No, Joy, I mean, look, let's be honest, I don't think you were fired after all those years because of your

skin color or because you're a black woman. I think you were fired because your show just got increasingly unpopular. It happens all the time in TV. That's why you got let go. Why play the race card? First of all, I love the fact that your play the race card is your version of the race card. You literally are so fixated on trying to racialize conversations with me peers. I find it actually quite charmed.

You racialize more conversations in your tenure at MSNMNMHILD that any host in history. All right, Mark. Come on. And the bottom line is you take an entire conversation that I had with Mark Lamont Hill and pick the bits that you can racialize because this is your schick. And I get that this is your stick. Are you racialize everything, Joy? Come on.

I get it. I get it. I get it. It's your stick. It's not my stick. It's not my stick. It was your stick. And everyone knows that it is.

Pears, we understand what did. And it is so interesting to me that you, yourself, as a white European, find that when people of color talk a, about race, that you believe is racializing conversations. But when people like you fixate on, well, Barack Obama was a black president, why don't you object to that? That is racializing a conversation about the former president of the United States. But you can't put you, and I'm sure you find that charming and funny. I find it hilarious because you're the one, you're the one who said, Donald Trump, you and your friend Donald Trump, you and your friend Donald Trump is a white fascist.

are so, he is, well, I agree with Mark Millie, who was last time I checked is not black. I'm not allowed to mention his skin color. I agree with his former chief of staff who last I checked was not black and said he's fascist. And Mark Milley said he's fascist to the core. So I happen to agree, and I know this is what it's important to you, with two very white gentlemen about Donald Trump's fascist tendencies. Okay. If that makes you sad and uncomfortable, I can't help you here.

No, yes, it made me sad and uncomfortable. I think it makes you a little bit of a hypocrite, but that's different. Now, President Trump reacted to your departure by saying, low-life chairman of Comcast, Brian Roberts, the owner of ratings-challenged NBC and MSNBC, has finally gotten the nerve up to fire one of the least talented people in television, the mentally obnoxious racist Joy Reid, based on her ratings which were virtually non-existent,

should have been canned long ago, along with everyone else who works there. What's your response to that? Many of us carry around bulky worn-out wallets that are uncomfortable and full of junk. The big question is why Ridge wallets can hold 12 cars plus cash with zero bulk. They're made from premium materials like aluminum, titanium and carbon fiber. And they're built with RFID blocking technology to defend your cars against digital theft. Ridge offers a lifetime warranty.

So this might be the last wallet you ever need. The same lifetime guarantee applies to their key cases, suitcases, and rings. All of them come with free shipping and a 99-day trial. For limited time, get 10% off at Ridge by using Code Peers, P-I-E-R-S at checkout. They're sent to Ridge.com and use Code Peers. After you purchase, they will ask you where you heard about them, so please support our show and tell them I sent you. If you are, I mean, it is, it's fascinating to me that you're, that you think it's important that I care what Donald Trump says about me. It's a badge of honor. If he dislikes me, then I think I'm doing something right. I have zero respect for Donald

Trump, and therefore, if he feels the same way about me, then the feelings are quite mutual, and I'm very, very proud of that and happy with it. Okay. I want to play a clip. This is you talking about attacking parents. You spoke out about their concerns about gay and paedophilia pornography books being placed in school libraries. The question I'm asking is, what is the expertise that you have, and other Moms for Liberty advocates have to decide that a book, an award-winning book, like All Boys Aren't Blue, isn't appropriate for students to read. What is your expertise? What a tragic story of a young man who's annually raped by his adult family members?

So you have incest, rape, pedophilia. Joy, you said you'd let me answer, so I'm going to answer for you. In what context is a strap-on dildo acceptable for public school? I mean, that's my question to you. Tell me what the context around the strap-on-es. or the rape of a minor child by a teacher. Hold on a second. No, no, we're talking about public school.

One moment. Okay. Now, there's also a second clip. This is you talking about Republicans exploiting concerns by miners who identify as transgender. And you said this was an old age tradition which Nazi Germany did. Let's take a look. In fact, there are more kids who have been exposed to gun violence estimated at 3 million than there are transgender Americans of all.

Americans of all ages in total. Targeting trans people isn't new. It is an age-old tradition, which Nazi Germany did with brutally violent ends in the 1930s. Now, the confusing part of all this, Joy, is what you really think about the LGBTQ plus, whatever it now, is community. Because as you know, when you started commentating about this,

appearing to be a big ally, a lot of stuff emerged, which came from, posts that you had purportedly put up in a blog between 2007 and 2009, one of which said most straight people cringe at the sight of two men kissing. Another said, I don't want to watch the two male characters in Brokeback Mountain. You were talking about having sex. Does that make me homophobic? Probably.

You referred to the then Florida governor as Miss Charlie and featured the tag gay politicians. Now, you said at the time when all this emerged, I genuinely don't believe I wrote those hateful things because they're completely alien to me. I hired cybersecurity experts to see if somebody manipulated my words or my former blog and the reality is they've not been able to prove it. Now you're not at MSNBC.

Now you're on your own doing your own thing and you don't have to worry about repercussions and stuff. Are you prepared to finally come clean and just admit that was your blog and you did say those things? You know, Pierce, I might have known that you would use this opportunity and interview and that this was your purpose, right? This is your purpose. And that's fine. This is your show and you can do whatever you like.

You know, I could sit here and go on and on and fight with you about your strange, weird obsession with Megan Markle. But I won't do that because that would be rude. But what I will say is we can do that as well. Sure. But the point being that I was very open with my employer at the time, about what happened with that old site, which I stopped writing before I even came back into the NBC family. And what I have not really talked about publicly,

but what I can tell you is that I had a very legitimate reason for being concerned about it because I was also on the radio at that time. And the things that I was literally talking about on the radio were quite the opposite of the things that were in that site. That is the reason that we began investigating what was going on with that site. And there was also someone who I do,

not know, who I still do not know, who had login access to my site for years that we did not even discover because I hadn't looked at the site for years. I don't know who that is. I don't know why they had access to the site, but had I not been open about that, I would have been definitely fired or, you know, there would have been some repercussions. I was open with my company about that. I've been very open. Everyone who knows me knows about it. And so if you want to argue with me about an old blog site, that's fine. And I'll take responsibility and have to.

And hold on, and I'm willing to take responsibility for anything that was on that site. Did you say them? Did you say those things? Not to my, listen, what I'm going to say is very simply good. What I'm going to say is very simply this years. You know you did. The point that you're attempting to meet now.

You just spun me an absolute load of old flannel. You, the reason that you are trying to go here is that you're trying to defend the idea that moms for liberty and these other organizations can take books that are not pornography, that are not porn. No, no. I'm just trying to see whether you like to hold people to account. And I'm just trying to ask you questions about you being held to account.

And I apologize for everything that was in that site. And I took responsibility for everything was in that site. And I still take responsibility for everything that was in that site. I find anything that harms the LGBTQ community that was in that site. repugnant. I apologize for it. I take full responsibility for it. But the point that I made in my in my conversation with the woman from moms for liberty is that they are making themselves the expert on books, which they are deeming pornographic by using a site called booklux.com, looking for words in the, um, in the book that make them uncomfortable and then attempting to ban books by the

hundred. And you out of interest, okay, just to be clear, just to be clear. Just to be clear. And so I asked Do you think books, all right, do you think school children at school should have access to books in their library, which involves strap on dildos? Again, you're taking a book that has multiple subjects and you're taking this award-winning book and dumbing it down to that. I just ask you a simple question. And the bottom line is these books that were published by publishers who had an opportunity to say no, look at these books. These are award-winning books. And I think parents should have the opportunity to opt their children. out if they don't feel comfortable reading those books,

but that children who are old enough and who are of age and can choose the books they want to read and may feel seen in a book that you might object to ought to have the opportunity to read that book. I don't think your decision. It shouldn't be moms for liberty decision. I don't think each parent can make the decision for their own children,

and I don't think that woman from moms for liberty or her organization should make that decision for other people's children. People ought to make decisions for their own children. And by the way, one thing I'll add, Is it in the state of Florida, parents can opt their children out of reading books that they don't want to read. All right. Let me ask you.

She could have done that like any other parent. Have you watched Brokeback Mountain? No. Okay. And what is the point of that? Well, because you said, I don't want to watch the two male characters in Brokeback Mountain having sex. Okay. So what does it, what does me watching Brokeback Mountain have to do with that book, whether or not it is pornographic?

No, nothing to do with the book. That book is a book that people can have. the opportunity to read if they so choose. No, I'm not talking about the book. I'm not talking about the book. Make a decision. It is not about the movie. It is about whether or not moms for liberty is the organization who should make decisions for other people's children.

I'm not talking about the book. Whether I watched a movie or not makes absolutely no difference. I'm talking about you posting on your blog that you wouldn't watch Brokeback Mountain because you don't want to see two male characters having sex. Does that make me homophobic? probably most straight people cringe at the side of two men kissing. Your words not mine, Joy. And your point is that maybe that makes you a bit of a hypocrite

when you're taking the position of being an ally for the LGBT community. And actually, the best way to handle it, I would argue, is just to say, you know what? Actually, I did write that at the time. They're not my views now. I've learned. I've evolved. I've moved on. trying to pretend even now that you didn't write it is preposterous.

And I think you know that. The bottom line is what I've said, and I will say it again, is that I take full responsibility for everything that was on that site. I'm deeply apologetic for the things that were on that site that hurt people, and I take responsibility for it because it was my site. And that's the end of that. And my views, as you know, and as I've said, on television, on air, are quite different from the views that you just read.

And that's the end of that. Okay. Let's just end with this. Not everyone was upset when you were fired. Plenty of those white conservative men that you, like so much, seem quite happy. Just take a look at this clip. Joy Reid, probably the nastiest figure on MSNBC. The most left, the most vicious against conservatives and white people and men and all the rest.

She has just been canned. fired, kicked to the side of the road. Her show is over. This saddens me a little bit because I did not yet have the opportunity to go on it. I am celebrating that there is no longer a market for her disgusting product. That's what I'm genuinely happy about. There has been a major shift. Her show and shows like her show no longer have value. And that's not just because of Joy Reid's favorite villains. you know, the evil white man or the Christians or the conservatives. It's because, like, no one watches her show. So, Joy, I've actually got Michael Knowles waiting in the wings.

Great. Is there anything you'd like to say to him? No. What did you make of his critique of your show? Well, I mean, the reality is that obviously people watched the show. and obviously that's the reason that the show was on for four and a half nearly five years. So if he didn't like the show, I guess sorry you didn't enjoy it, but I really am not that interested in his views on it.

Okay, well, we've got Michael there. Michael, anything you want to say to Joy? Yes, wonderful to be here. Joy, very nice to meet you. And I guess I would agree with Joy's take. People watched the show in the past tense, and now there's no longer a market for that absolutely vile content. And I think that's good for the culture broadly. And now we can all chat on Pierce's show.

Joy? The reality is, Michael, the content that you and peers like to trade in is grievance. And the grievance that white Americans have that they have to deal with diversity, that they have to do. Joy, this isn't a grievance. I'm very much. I'm celebrating. And by the way, white grievance is.

is very good for your bottom lines. It's very good for your bank accounts. And so having me here to be able to continue to, you know, to traffic in that, that is your stick. That is what you do. You do peers. And so it's great. And I'm sure you find it delightful and fun to say it.

But the reality is peers, that is what you all traffic in. I have to correct you. First of all, I'm not a white American. I think as my accent may reveal. Well, I know that you're European. I'm a Thai. I'm British. My only grievances are tan grievances.

Secondly, I don't think anyone, Michael, I will let you respond, but I don't think any host in the history of cable news has waged more grievance than Joy Reid. So the idea that you're now hectoring us about feeling aggrieved about things, you spent years being aggrieved about absolutely everything. Excuse me, but your favorite president, the president who you completely support,

is nothing but grievance. My favorite president was Abraham Lincoln. His entire campaign was grievance. Well, your former boss on the credit. I'm not Donald Trump. I want to call him, your friend. The bottom line is that Donald Trump's entire campaign was about grievance. It was about white America feeling they'd lost their country and they need to take it back.

It was about white America feeling that diversity was a threat to their children being able to go to Harvard. And you know what, Joy, in the end, diversity. And that is the reason that you all. go on to him and use him to further your own. Actually, in the end, most Americans, as you know, most Americans having voted for him in 2016 and after Trump spent four years in the wilderness and we watched the Democrats run the United States of America,

people took a look at that in America and then they voted for Trump second time round in bigger numbers, including a record number of Latinos. Last time I checked, were not white. Anyway, Joy Reid, I'm going to leave it with you. Thank you for coming on on Censored. Next time, I'm sure we can move on from the stuff we've talked about today and have a more current debate, perhaps, about other issues.

But I appreciate you coming on and facing the music, and it's good to see you. Thank you very much. I've got Michael and Nina Turner. Nina, you were, well, fair to say, looking quite aggrieved ironically about what you were hearing there. What would you like to say? Pierce, I mean, my God, the way you were coming at Joy,

she handled it beautifully, though. I think her... Was I unfair? I mean, did I say anything... Yeah, yeah, Pierce you were. In one way? For me to be popping up on the screen like this at the last minute on this topic. So I just want your audience to know I didn't get any warning that.

I was just going to pop up here while you guys were talking that way. Yeah, just unfair. I mean, I feel like you were beating a dead horse, but Joey handled it. She handled it. Wow. He was just reading her words back to her, wasn't he? You could be calling Joy a dead horse? No, I am not.

I'm talking about the topic. You kept going back and forth. forth on this over and over again. She said they did an investigation. You don't believe, and Nina, come on. Nobody does. Nobody believes it. Of course, of course she wrote that stuff in her blog. I'm just, I'm just telling you, I found it to be unfair. Okay. Oh, come off it, Nina. But what you, let's talk about, oh, come on. Let's talk about what you brought me on here to talk about. All right. Well, let's talk to Michael quickly first. So, Michael, I mean, it's quite illuminating the conversation with Joy. I don't think again.

I never met her. She blocked me on Twitter ages ago, but I don't know what for, probably for saying something complimentary about Trump, who she views as a Nazi. But that in itself is part of the problem with the Democrats now is that the constant thing of the only way to tackle Trump is to try and persuade everyone he's a Nazi, he's a fascist, he's this, it just doesn't play anymore. It's not how most American see Trump. And the Democrats just don't seem to have learned that lesson. They've got people like Obama and Clinton and a, and a, and Chris Cuomo and others who are trying to urge some common sense to come into this. I believe I've written a book called Woke is Dead coming out towards the end of the year, which I think is perfectly timed because I really feel the world has just woken up and gone, we're done with this crap, we're just not having it anymore.

Certainly. I mean, I think in that last little segment there, it was total projection from joy when she's talking about this anger, this grievance. You know, frankly, Pierce, I think you and I are two of the least aggrieved people in the entire media. Generally, pretty chipper. Completely agree. So, you know, obviously the left has been pushing this grievance kind of politics for a long time. Trump, by the way, when he was asked if he was going to take revenge on his enemies, he said, no, no, success is going to be my revenge. We're going to move on.

We're going to make America great again for all sorts of different people. And, of course, he did bring on a lot of people, many more than just white people to his coalition. record number, 46% of Hispanics, one in five black men to come over and vote, 40% of women under the age of 30. So he built a very large coalition here. And this is what I think Obama is so worried about. Because Obama was one of the big promoters of proto-wokeness. It was Barack Obama who lit up that White House in rainbow colors. It was Barack Obama who was attacking the police at Harvard over the Gates affair. It was Barack Obama who said the cool clock Ahmed kind of racial identity.

identity politics, and it's spun out of control. So now you're seeing this run away with them. The Democrats got creamed in the 2024 elections, and he's saying, whoa, whoa, guys, bring it back. Don't seem so aggrieved. Don't seem so weak. You've got to toughen up a little bit, guys. I just think it's a little bit too late. He's being hoisted with his own pittard. Yeah. All right, Nina. I mean, just to remind you Obama said, it's going to require a little less navel gazing, a little less whining, and being in fetal positions. Well, listen, this is probably one of the only things that Michael and I will agree on. I believe that President Obama is late to the party on this.

I wish he had taken some of the advice that he's given. He should have spoken out in 2016, in 2020, and also in 2024. We should have had a robust primary, which we did not. We being Democrats, so I want your audience to know, the Democrats did not have a robust primary because we had a denial among the least. leadership, not the faithful. And Pierce, there is a difference between the faithful of the Democratic Party, just everyday people who believe versus the out-of-touch leaders.

So while President Obama's premise is correct, he is late to the party on this. And I feel as though he has very little credibility on it unless he calls out what happened in 2016, 2020, and 2024. Now, the point about the Hitler thing in Democrats. Yeah. Now, J.D. Vance, I'm going to jump in here and do this dance. Now, J.D. Vance said that about President Trump as well. And then he turns around now that he was made the vice president, now all of a sudden, people want to pretend like he didn't say it. Now, Pierce and Michael, I have been one of the very few disgruntled Democrats because I don't roll with these neoliberal. And that's why they don't like me. I get it from the right and I get it from the neoliberal. Good for you. But I am one of the very few disgruntled Democrats. Because I don't roll with these neoliberals. And that's why they don't like me. I get it from the neoliberal. But I am one. But I am one. But I am one. I am one. I am one one of the very few Democrat adjacent leaders to say comparing President Donald J. Trump to Adolf Hitler is out of line. Secondly, I said to the Democratic Party, if that is the only

way that you can try to win instead of trying to win on your ideas, go sit down somewhere, because people are sick and tired of hearing it. I want to hear, and the voters and the people that I still talk to, they want to hear about what you're going to do for them and not necessarily always hearing about what the other candidate is not doing. The Democrats had an opportunity in the first two years of the Biden, a president Biden's presidency to push agendas and to be bold and to be brave and to stand on it. And they refuse to do it. So now, although I don't like what President Trump is doing, I don't like 99.9% of what he is doing, what I do applaud. What I do applaud is the fact that he knows

how to use power. And I hope that the Democratic Party gets a clue and stop making excuses. So Pierce and Michael, I and others who at Horde comparing this man to Adolf Hitler, that ought to be acknowledged. Because

I think that was too far. J.D. Vance went too far. You can be in disagreement with the president. But don't do that. Historically, it's a historic people to do that. We've reached a great point in this panel where everybody is in total agreement. Well, that might be the only point

we're going to agree on. Well, let's turn to something which is very interesting because it's actually splitting the Republicans. This whole thing, Michael, about the Epstein files, where it looked like we were all being taken down

the hill by the Trump administration. A lot of people, Lena Habbitt came on my show, couldn't have been clearer. There were all these names, all this scandal stuff. It was all going to come out and just had to be patient, et cetera. Pam Bondi, issuing binding. to people and so on.

And then, bang, the shutters came down. Elon Musk, suddenly did his bombshell post as he fell out with Trump saying Trump's in the Epstein files. That's the biggest bombshell. And then the next thing, the whole thing gets shut down. Trump has been quite interesting how he's trying to navigate this because the Magal World is not happy about the way this has been closed down. But Donald Trump has now gone on the attack

against what he calls stupid Republicans. Let's take a look. It's a hoax. It's started by Democrats. It's been run by the Democrats for four years. You had Christopher Ray in these characters and Comey before him. And it's a bad group. It started actually look at the steel dossier that turned out to be a total hoax. The 51 agents, the intelligence, so-called intelligence agents, it was a hoax. It's all been a big hoax. It's perpetrated by the Democrats. And some stupid Republicans and foolish Republicans fall into the net. and so they try and do the Democrats work. I mean, Michael, strong words there. I mean, Trump going on the attack, talking about stupid Republicans, my past supporters have brought into this bullshit hook, line and sinker. Is this a sensible strategy, do you think?

Well, I think Trump is in a terrible position. I said from the beginning, I never expected us to get the Epstein files. Because one of two things could be true. either Epstein is what the government is maintaining, namely just a rich pervert who happened to pal around with all the richest, most famous people in the world, and those two facts have nothing to do with each other. You know, there's nothing to see here and move along. Either that story is true, or this guy really did have compromise on people. There might have been some blackmail. There might have been some association with intelligence services, in which case you also were never going to get anymore to that story.

So I never really had any illusions that we were going to get a radical transparency. And frankly, I'd even go further. The government could have reasonable and even virtuous explanations not to release everything because of potential defamation, because of threats to the world order. So I grant all of that. I am a plan truster. I appreciate Trump's position. But the government needs to have some better messaging here.

The government needs to explain to people why this sort of information might not come out. What the people want, I think, is not primarily radical transparency. What we want is justice. horrific crimes occurred on this island and in other properties. We want the perpetrators to be held to justice. So the reason why now I think Trump is being reactive is he sees guys like Thomas Massey, who's a political enemy of his in the Republican Party, teaming up with Democrats to try to push this issue. So I think he's just trying to punch back. But Trump gave himself a little wiggle room. If you caught it, right outside of Marine One, there was a clip he was going off about how he wants people to stop talking about Epstein, but he wants all credible information to come out. I thought that was a way that maybe he's leaving himself room to pivot. Yeah, I mean, in this extraordinary situation, I feel the Democrats, you can just sit back and watch this unravel,

because it's the conservative right ripping itself to pieces. Well, I don't want to play games with this, so Michael and I might have a little bit more agreement here. You cannot dismiss the concerns of the people, and that is exactly what they want. They want justice. President Trump is being a hypocrite in this case. It was President Trump who said that he would release. Interview after interview when he was asked as the candidate for a second time, he said he would release the Epstein files.

Now all of a sudden, there's nothing to see here. So on one hand, the Republican Party purports to care about young girls and women and all the allegations, right? Every allegation might not necessarily be true. But why don't you release the files, or at least, to Michael's point, give the American people a better explanation other than to say, number one, nothing to see here. Number two is the Democratic hopes, which it is not. And number three, President Trump is jumping on his own supporters.

Now all of a sudden they're weak. They're no good. He doesn't need them anymore just because he doesn't want to do what he said he was going to do. He's the one that made this promise. So so much for draining the swamp in D.C. Because the president on this issue, he's swimming all up in it. He backstroping in this swamp. I mean, it is an interesting.

I mean, as a journalist, I look at this and I think, how can you only have one person in prison right now connected to the Epstein scandal? Exactly. Right? When we know he trafficked so many young underage girls, we know he was an appalling pedophile. How is it that the only person in prison is? a woman, Gilein Maxwell, who was his madame and fixer and absolutely deserves her punishment.

But no men, Michael, at all. I mean, Epstein cheated justice or maybe someone cheated it for him. You know, there's a lot of speculation raging about it. We don't know for sure. But I just find this fact that we know how widespread this crime scenario was, and yet there's no man. He's been held accountable. Well, this has become the new joke about it. I guess, you know, you laugh or cry. And the joke is that Kulane Maxwell is the only person ever put in prison for trafficking girls to no one. So obviously, there are people, you know, it's not that we need some kind of formal sheet of paper, one, two, three, four with a client list. We know that Jeffrey Epstein had associates. But I totally

sympathize with Trump here. You've got to remember, this issue long predates President Trump's political career. Trump did know Epstein, like apparently every rich, famous person. did in the world, but he kicked him out of his Moralago club. I've talked to highly credible sources who say, Trump is not in any way seriously implicated in these files, but lots of other people are. And so I think Trump's frustration here is, look, I'm doing great on the border. I'm doing really quite well and maybe great on foreign affairs. Everyone told me the economy was going to collapse the economy, is doing great. I've got all of these major wins. And you're forcing me to talk about some political issue that might even involve international intelligence,

that predates my presidency by 10 years. And I think he's frustrated. I get that frustration, but I don't think this issue is just going to go away. There is a reason why it's stuck around now for over a decade. Yeah, I mean, even though he's frustrated. I mean, he could be frustrated, but he's president of the United States of America, so he has an obligation. You know, he just can't get out of this.

If the president was President Biden or President Obama or President Bush, let's name some others, none of them should be off the hook for this. Even though it predates him, he is the one who said that he would release the file. Pam, but his AG, said that she had on her desk the files. Now all of a sudden, you don't have the files. Which is it?

President Donald Trump is in a corner on this, and the only way, he doesn't really know how to get out of it, other than to attack people. So now it's a hoax. Now he's attacking his own voters. So we can't have a double standard here, gentleman for President Trump than you would for any other president. It doesn't matter all the other things, Michael, that you laid out there.

The fact that the matter is, is that the majority of the American people want an answer and they deserve it. You know who else deserves it more? The victims deserve it. Yeah, and let's not forget, as I've been reminding people, that the son of the late great Queen Elizabeth II, Prince Andrew, paid one of those victims a reported $11 million, despite insisting he'd never met this person and that the photograph of his arm rat rounder when she was 17 was a fake despite everyone believing it is genuine and that that woman virginia duffray recently and incredibly

tragically took her life you know the this scandal has long legs and has incredibly serious consequences for everybody involved and again the idea the only person has been held accountable is a woman just seems preposterous um thank you both for very much indeed. Michael, it was great to finally get you to meet Joy Reid in that way. Thanks for making the introduction period. I'm thinking next time I'm in town, we should all go out, the four of us. What a four that would be on the town. Yeah, the four of us, you absolutely, let's do it.

I guarantee one thing. We'd have a very entertaining night out. Michael Nose, one of the more civilized human beings I've ever met in the United States. So one of the least aggrieved people I think I've ever had on the show. So I thought there's some terrible allegations spinning around there. Thank you both very much. I appreciate it. Piersmorgan Unscensored is proudly independent. The only boss around here is me. If you enjoy our show, we ask only one simple thing.

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