Piers Morgan Uncensored - Piers Morgan Debates Trans Athletes - Compilation Feat Matt Walsh & Riley Gaines

Episode Date: August 25, 2025

The question of whether biological men should be allowed to participate in women's sports is one that has been debated much on Uncensored - and here, we show you some pivotal moments. Piers Morgan speaks to Lord Sebastian Coe, Riley Gaines, Matt Walsh and many more about the question of transgender athletes and other issues that has arisen around the topic. Piers Morgan Uncensored is proudly independent and supported by: Birch Gold: Visit https://birchgold.com/piers to get your free info kit on gold. Oxford Natural: To watch their full stories, scan the QR code on your screen or visit https://oxfordnatural.com/piers/ to get 70% off your first order when you use code PIERS. Pique: Get 20% off your order plus a FREE frother & glass beaker with this exclusive link: https://piquelife.com/PIERS Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Some of our liveliest uncensored debates are about whether the grass is blue and the sky is green. More specifically, whether biological men should be allowed to play women's sport and the perils of limitless self-identity. What we're about to show you is on a summer compilation, it identifies as exceptional new context. President Trump has banned trans athletes from women's sport, with the Olympic Games heading for Los Angeles, comply or defy. Ladies are bringing in my exclusive interview with Lord Sebastian Coe, who could be able to be. be the next Olympics president and effectively the top boss in world sport. And he knows all about Olympics because he was an Olympic champion himself. But we begin with this.

It will henceforth be the official policy of the United States government that there are only two genders, male and female. But all of that ends today because with this executive order, the war on women's sports is over. Well, the New York Times calls this a shameful campaign against transgender Americans, while NPR warns of extremism with chilling echoes in history. Trump is facing a slew of legal challenges to the trans ban, but so far as getting results anyway.

The NCAA, which enabled the whole Leah Thomas farce, has reversed a 15-year policy and will ban transgender women from women's sports. Athlete C.C. Telfer, a mediocre male runner, who transitioned to become a record-breaking female runner, said this. They would be smart and educated enough to know that something like that is not, that's not how history works and that's not how, uh, the direction of progressiveness works. And you can't take, you can't take back history.

Well, I responded on X by calling the interview absurd, adding that she was born male, looks and speaks like a man, runs like a man, and is smashing women's record. She's not a victim. She's a cheat. Well, athlete Riley gains that a chorus of conservative criticism, but also rebut me for not referring to Telfer as he. Now, Look, here's where I feel about this. I've got no problem with calling a trans woman, she. I only have a problem when I believe they are deliberately trying to erode women's rights to fairness, equality, and safety.

And I think that's my dividing line. And so really, is it the hill to die on as to whether we call C.C. Tel for he or she? I don't think so. But Riley will explain herself when it comes to this. Others have pointed out that Cici Telfer has no respect for women whose sporting dreams she's shattered. That's an interesting part of this debate too. And to sign of a massive cultural shift

that using the wrong pronouns, previously a fully cancable offence, is suddenly perfectly normal and no one's getting cancelled for it. So has Trump's trans ban unleashed a new wave of misery for trans people everywhere, some claim? Or is he simply restoring much-needed common sense in a way that, frankly, most voters fully agree. with.

But joining me to debate all this is Blossom C. Brown, a transgender activist who spired with Michael Knowles on Jubilee this week, and the great Riley Gaines, who has been a fantastic trailblazer for safeguarding women's rights in all this, is the host of Gaines for girls on Outkick. You had a front row seat, Riley, at the White House when the president signed that executive order, which was quite a moment. First of all, how did you feel being there for that moment in history, which you've campaigned so hard for?

Well, thank you, Pierce, for having me on. Always a joy to be on with you. There was a lot of emotions. Of course, it's a bit bewildering that this is something that's necessary, that a sitting president has to take time out of his day, out of his busy day, to use his executive powers to declare, number one, that men and women are different, and then to further declare that men do not belong in women's sports. But nonetheless, it is necessary.

I would argue that it was urgent. So this type of moral clarity and decisiveness is, I just feel vindicated. The past three years, me personally, and I know women who have been fighting much longer than I have, the past three years, it's been an uphill battle. Not only were we as women, as female athletes, I guess, in particular, not only were we ignored in stonewalled. We were actually reprimanded if we dared to oppose this movement. If we dared to even question this movement, we as women were reprimanded. So to now to finally have a seat at the table and to have a president who is willing to listen to us,

I just feel grateful. I feel grateful for God's mercy that we don't deserve, and I feel entirely vindicated here. And I think that visual quickly, that visual of President Trump surrounded by all of these young girls, girls with dreams and aspirations and hopes for a future, I think that visual is one of the most iconic pictures that will come out of his administration.

And that's saying a lot, considering this man has a mugshot. Yeah, I mean, the two images I'll be remembering from all that involving you, were you with Trump when that happened, but also you being mobbed, literally in a vicious, horrible, threatening way by a gang of people wanting to cause you physically harm because you were standing up for women's rights, not least for safety, which seemed to me completely outrageous.

Philosoph, I can see you making faces there. One question to start this debate with you. Why do we separate the sexes at the Olympics? You know, first of all, I want to say, Shout out to C.C. Tofer. I've met her before. She is a magnificent person, and she is very bad ASS, and I love her to death. Let me say this. Don't talk is a complete moral line. She might just C.C. Telfer might be a fabulous person. Yes.

I'm going to come later to why I think what she does is completely wrong. But just on the question I asked, why do we separate the sexes at the Olympics? If you actually, well, Pierce, if you actually let me get to it, because you let Riley have her talking points. actually have my talking point right now. CC is definitely a wonderful person, and I think let's be clear, Donald Trump is a complete moron. Donald Trump talks so much about waste and fraud, and you're signing a whole executive order banning trans women from playing sports. According to the NCAA, there are over 510,000 athletes, and within those athletes, there are only less than 10 trans athletes.

So you mean to tell me, Donald Trump signing an executive order for 0.002 of the population when trans people are only 1%? That's a waste. That is a waste. Trans people exist. There are more than two sexes. There are intersex people that exist. And I think that it's nothing more than conservative propaganda

that because Donald Trump is in power, he is able to use. I think Donald Trump should stop booty clapping to Elon Musk and actually get something done in this country. And eradicating trans people is not going to be it. And I stand ten toes down on that. Okay. I'll say very briefly, this argument that it's a small percentage of the population. I hope you realize it's not a one-to-one ratio.

It's not for every one male that's participating in a woman's sport. It's one woman that's affected. In my sport, at our national championships, one male displaced 14,000 women. And I can speak for myself. I can speak for my teammates. I can speak for 99% of other female competitors on that pool deck. We all felt betrayed. We all felt violated in the locker room.

We all felt it was unfair, but not enough people. were courageous enough to say it because they were terrified. They were terrified of the name calling that you just pursued. Even, I mean, the first thing you say is Donald Trump is a moron. What 20 year old girl wants to be called transphobic or any of the slurs that have been thrown my way? I can certainly attest to. You know, Riley, I think you're trying to, you know, Riley, I think you're just trying

to make a thing like that trans people are a threat to cis women in the breastroom. And that's not the case. Trans women and cis women should be coming together. trans women are not a threat to... Okay, but Blossom, Blossom. And I think that y'all have ran on that ideology. Y'all have ran on that ideology for a very long time. And you're going to have to specifically tell me cases.

Blossom. Time out. Time out. Time out. Time out. Lossom. Have hurt cis women in the restaurant. Blossom.

I like to know that place. Blossom. We don't use things like words like cis on here because no one understands it. Let's just... Well, I use cisgender, so that's where I come from. And that's what I like to use that in my vocabulary. Yeah, but nobody else understands. as it. Let's just stick to my question.

My question for you, which you have... Hang on. Hang on. Hang on, Blosson. You just don't have the intellectual capacity here. You don't have the intellectual capacity to understand the terminology that's using. Blossom, just to explain something. You're appearing on a show called Pierce Morgan Unsensored. That means you can say whatever you want. I know all about you, Pierce. Okay. You can... And I know how you're good at race baiting. I know how you're good at being transphobic. And that's why I'm here to face you... Just to be clear. Face you one-on-one. When do you think I've ever race hated. Honey, you know, that whole incident with Sharon Osborne. Yes. Let's not forget.

Oh, you know, I do. Don't give me started on that. What do you think? But we're not here to talk about Ms. Sharon Osborne. What do you think happened there? We're not here to talk about Ms. Sharon Osborne. Yes. What do you think? Yes. What do you think about trans? Hang on. Hang on. You are notorious. Okay. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Let's have a conversation. Let's talk about the Sharon Osborne thing. Let me tell you why. Since you've raised it. Since you've raised it. I'm a black trans one. Blossom, stop talking for a moment. And you have cut me off so many times since I've been here. Okay. Blossom, can we have a conversation, please?

You get the white girl all the time to talk. Can we have a conversation, please? And a black girl is having to speak. Actually, at the moment, the black girl is doing all the talking. Hang on, hang on. What in the world was that? Did I just say something, please? That's my opinion.

All right. That's my view. Blossom, stop talking. Today's show is brought to you by Oxford Natural, makers of the optimum day and optimum night. natural supplements. Thousands of Brits and Americans are already taking them with incredible results. Optimum day is designed to boost your energy and support weight loss throughout the day. Optimum night helps you relax and get deep, refreshing sleep. And don't just take their word for it.

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Use the code peers, P-I-E-R-S, and get 70% off your first order. Get 70% off with the promo code, peers. Let me just explain to you why what you've just said is complete and utter nonsense. I'm very glad you raised the Sharon Osborne thing, as you put it. Just to remind people and you and educate you about what happened.

I was removed from my job hosting a morning show in Britain called Good Morning Britain because I disbelieved Meghan Markle's claims of racism against the royal family, okay? I never said a racist... Hang on, hang on, let me finish. I never said a racist thing about anybody, least of all, Mega Markle. I've never invoked her skin color. On the day she got married to Prince Harry, I wrote a front-page story in a national newspaper in this country

in which I extolled the glorious moment. We finally had a biracial wedding in our otherwise all-white royal family. You might be bored, but I'm going to address your allegation. Okay, Piers. Hang on. I haven't finished. I haven't finished. I haven't finished, Blossom.

Let me finish. Let me just educate you. Let me just educate you with some facts. You call me a race fater. You've called me a race. Please stop talking. You've called me a race beta. Allegedly. Hang on. Alleged. Hang on. Right. So let me finish. So what happened then was Sharon Osborne, who was on a show called The Talk on CBS, now sadly no longer there. Because they got rid of Sharon. And guess what? Nobody wanted to watch it. And Cheryl Underwood, a black woman on that panel, set up Sharon Osborne in the most despicable manner imaginable.

And she said to Sharon Osborne, why did you support Pierce, Morgan when he said those racist things. And Sharon Osborne, hang on. You can respond when I finish telling you what happened. You can respond when I tell you what happened. Blossom, you can respond when I finished telling you what happened. And you can challenge me on facts. What you can't challenge me is something you've seen on TikTok.

So let me finish. So Sharon Osborne was told why. TikTok, you know what's that on TikTok? It was all over the new year in America. Cheryl Underwood said to Sharon Osborne, we're here to talk about. Okay, if you're going to keep talking, I'll mute you. I will mute you, but don't let me mute you.

Let me just finish. Then you can respond. Cheryl Underwood said, why did you support Pierce Morgan when he said those racist things? Sharon said, what racist things? And as a result of that, by getting annoyed that she was being set up to try and supposedly defend her friend me in saying racist things I'd never said, Sharon got fired from the talk, and she was left suicidal in the year that followed that her whole career was sent down the drain because, ironically, the race baiter was actually

the black woman on that panel, Cheryl Underwood, not Sharon Osborne and not me. So I'm very glad you raised the issue of race baiting, but let's be clear, as you're doing now, the race baiting came from Cheryl Underwood to Sharon Osborne, and it's now coming from you. So let's, now you can respond. Can I be racist, peers. Now you can respond. Black women cannot be racist to white women. Are you kidding me?

Sorry? That makes no sense. Sorry. Black women cannot be racist to white women. Do you not understand that? Oh, yes, they can. You don't have the intellectual capacity to understand that. Oh, yes, they can.

And you've been racist to me. That's very much impossible. You've been racist to me, a white man. by saying I'm a race-bater. Yeah. How am I racist to you? I'm black. I can't be racist to you.

You call me a race-bater with no evidence. When have I been a race-baiter? You could be racist to me. When have I been a race-baiter? But I'm a powerhouse. Tell me when I've been a race-baiter. Well, you may be a powerhouse. You may be a powerhouse.

When have I been a race-bater? I don't admit that. When have I been a race-bater? Okay. When have I been a race-bater? Okay. This is absurd. No, hang on, tell me.

Honey. You're absurd. Give me one example of me race baiting. Blossom. Go. I'm here. At this point, I'm just here to talk about trans women in sports. I say what I said. So you don't have anything, do you?

You call me a race baiter, but you have no evidence I've ever race baited. You admit it. Do you believe that African Americans are superior to... Fascinating. Like so many people, you play that race card and you can't defend it. You can't support it. There is no evidence. Hold on, hold on.

Let me check you on. that. Let me check you all day. You talk about this race card or whatnot. The race card is reality. My experience as a black trans woman is completely different than yours. Reality. Well, let me ask you about reality then. Do not interrupt a black trans woman when I'm speaking. Oh, don't be so pathetic. Why? Riley, this was so much privilege as a white woman. So you can interrupt me for the last 10 minutes. So just to be clear, just to be clear, hang on, hang on, hang on, just to be clear, Blossom. All right, just can you mute Blossom for a moment, please? Thank you.

You realize you're making all... Hang on, Riley. Hang on Riley. Hang on Riley. Sort of make the point. That Blossom has just literally interrupted me for 10 consecutive minutes without balsing breath. But the moment Riley has the audacity to interrupt a blossom. Oh, guess what?

The moment, that's the moment that the black transgender woman decides this is outrageous. Okay, you can unmute it. This feels like an SNL. This feels like an SNL skit. It does. Okay. It's preposterous. I just want you to remember that Blossom said what she,

her basis and perspective of life is rooted in reality. So please remember that as we continue this conversation. Which brings me to my question, which you have an answer, Blossom, which is why do we separate the sexes in the Olympics? Here's the thing. I'm not an Olympian. Oh. I don't play sports.

You don't know why me separate the sex? I think what you're saying is conservative propaganda. Propaganda? I think what you're saying is conservative propaganda. Conservative propaganda. I asked you why we separate. I asked you why we separate the sexes. Why do we separate the sexes?

Again, when we talk about trans people, when we talk about trans people, we're talking about gender identity. I need both of y'all mindset to become more expansive. Right. I know that's a little hard for both of you. Because both of you have the rays of a peanut. I understand that's hard for both of y'all.

Can you answer my question? A seed. Can you answer my question? Again. Again, when we talk about trans people, we're talking about gender identity. We're not just focused on sex. That's not my question. What y'all like to do is reduce conversations down to sex. What you all like to do.

And you try to apply it to what's happening in the Olympics. Okay. And I'm asking you a very, and I'm asking you. Trans women shall participate in the Olympics. The Olympics. And I think what you're doing is spreading misinformation. Blossom. I don't want to have to mute you again.

Conservative propaganda that should not be. Okay. Every home has one spot that calls out to you all day. For me, it's my bed, and I'm sure many of you will agree. And wait until you switch to cozy earth's bamboo sheets and bubble cuddle blanket. It will be game over. These bamboo sheets are next-level quality. They're soft, breathable, and they'll keep you cool all night.

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So go to CozyEarth.com and use the code Peers, P-I-E-R-S, for up to 40% off. I'll ask you one more time, why do we separate the sexes in the Olympics? Why do we have men and women competing separately? Give me an answer. Well, Pierce, won't you tell me the answer since I don't know? You don't know the answer? Oh, Riley's got a hand up. Riley, why don't you educate Blossom?

Riley, why do we separate the sexes in the Olympics? Because men and women are different. We have different physical ceilings. It's the same reason why you have any category. It's the same reason why we have the Paralympics versus the Olympics. It's the same reason why we have weight classes in boxing. We don't have weight classes in boxing because we are fat-shaming people who weigh more. No, we have weight classes because it would be unfair.

We know the outcome. Every single person, kindergartners, know the outcome of what would happen if we had a 220-pound man, fight a 170-pound man. It's the same reason why we have age divisions. We don't have 12 and unders or PV leagues. What if that, win that 220 pound, wait, what if that 170 pound man has the agility to beat that 220 pound man? That makes no sense. I'm so sorry. Your answer makes no sense. That makes no sense. You don't know anybody's biochemistry. It makes sense to be.

99% of common sense. You do not know, Riley. I'm sorry. You absolutely do not know about somebody's biology. You just admitted you're not. Everybody's chemistry is made differently. You have never competed at the highest level. And see, this is the thing, I don't have to be an athlete to talk about this because this affects my community. Because you're not a living. All right. You know what we're going to try. Why don't we try?

Can we please stop talking at the same time? If you talk at the same time, Blossom, if you talk, if you talk, if you talk, Blossom, if you talk at the same time, nobody can hear either of you. Okay. So Blossom, let's start with you again. A simple question. I'll tell you why they separate the sexes, just as Riley has. It's because men have a physical advantage over women, which would mean that women would not win more than a handful of medals in the entire Olympics.

Would you be happy if it was a gender-neutral Olympics? Hang on. Answer my question. Why are we saying this about women, answer my question. Women are just as strong as men. I'm asking you. I'm sorry, women are just as strong as men. So just to be clear.

Powerful as men. And I don't believe that. Okay, Blossom. That's just your opinion. So Blossom. That's not always fat. Blossom, if the world number one tennis player... I don't buy it.

Okay, you know that Serena Williams admits that she would be beaten by the top thousand men in the world at tennis, right? You know that. You did not know that. So... You don't know that. You don't know why men would be getting up in the Olympics? I would like to read those receipts. Both Serena and Venus Williams lost in a blow.

Are you waving them around? What? You can look it up to the 203rd ranked male player. He drank in between sets, smoked in between sets, and played 18 holes of golf before, and admitted that he played like a 600 male ranked player. And they lost in a blowout, and they are phenoms, the best of the best. No other woman for a while even could come close to them,

and they got beat by a man. Let me repeat it. In a blowout, the 203rd ranked male player, who admitted he played like a 600-ranked player, Frank spoke between sets and played 18 holes of golf before. Blossom, just to be clear, would you want the impression? American Olympics, the L.A. Olympics, would you want them to be gender neutral whether sexes compete with each other? Absolutely. I don't see anything wrong with it.

Okay. Do you also believe... It's completely insane! And non-binary people... Yes. Why not? It's completely insane. This country was built on diversity, equity, and inclusion. Exactly. This is why that's so nuts.

That does include cis women like right. And you know what you would do? you would exclude all women from winning medals. That's not true. That is not true. Can we talk about Leah Thomas? Now, I bring up Leah Thomas because Riley knows her very well. I bring up Leah Thomas because the reality is, yes, she won some games, but Leah also lost some games to cis women. So there are some cis women who are faster than Leah. There are some cis women who are stronger than Leah. And again, when we talk about genetics, there are some cis women that have natural, higher testosterone levels than trans women.

That's why some of them may look more masculine. Imman Khalif had to experience that transphobia, which by the way, transphobia affects all women. And now that Trump has excluded trans women from playing in sports, all women are going to be subjective to rigorous tests to make sure that they're not trans. And that does include ciswomen. I don't care how feminine they look. You could potentially be subjected to these rigorous tests because Donald Trump took his peanut head red orange behind and signed an executive order that he doesn't even know anything about. He's a convicted felon, 34 felonies, right? We also need to be focusing on letting convicted felons in this country vote since we elected a convicted felon, right?

There's so much more work. The economy is tanking here. All right. Riley? Gas prices are high. Okay. Why is Trump focused so much on trans people? Because he wants to preserve the integrity because I'll tell you why.

I'll tell you why Blossom. You're not trans. I'll tell you why Blossom. I'll tell you why. Hang on. Hang on. Hang on. Blossom.

Here's why. Because he's up against complete lunatics like you who think it would be right to have to have a gender-neutral. Olympics. A gender neutral Olympics is the most insane thing I've ever heard from any trans activists in history. Lunacy.

When you haven't met me, when you haven't found that until you met me, I'm not your average trans woman in case you didn't notice that. I'm not your average trans woman. Riley. People like Blossom are exactly why Donald Trump won on November 5th.

People, I believe Oh, girl, please. Girl, please. Donald Trump read the election, which is why he's sitting in office now. Can we mute? This is the most crap. Yeah, meat blossom, please, because you can't stop talking. Riley, you respond. People turned out, I believe, in masses to the polls on November 5th to embrace Donald Trump, to embrace the America First agenda, to embrace his cabinet picks.

But more so, I believe people turned out to the polls to reject absurdity. And that is exactly what the past 30 minutes have been on this program, Pierce is totally entirely and thoroughly absurd from top to bottom, saying there should be a gender-neutral Olympics? Are you serious? Madness. Do you also believe Blossom that we should combine the Paralympics and the Olympics? I would love to hear an answer to that.

Okay. I'll ask her, bring Black Blossom. Blossom, should we combine the Paralympics with the regular Olympics, have them all compete with each other? I mean, why not? And to go back to Riley's point to that last one. Oh, my God. You are completely.

Oh, my gosh. No, because she actually said something that I wanted to respond to. So no Paralympian will win a medal. So your diversity, equity, and inclusion turns out to be unequal and doesn't include any Paralympian or any woman. People went to the polls because they want prices to come down. People went to the polls. They went to the polls to vote because they had every right to.

Yeah, and they voted for Donald Trump. You know why they voted for Trump? They did not. Because people like you are turning this debate into a total fuss. Donald Trump rigged that election. Donald Trump does not even have the capacity to even run this country. Okay, mute Blossom one more time because I want to thank Riley. Thank you, Blossom.

Riley, thank you for engaging in this and the best way you could have done. There's a lot going on with the global economy. It's entirely reasonable to wonder what the effect will be on your savings and investments. Consider diversifying with gold through Birch Gold Group. For decades, gold has been viewed as a safe haven in times of uncertainty, stagnation and high inflation. Birch gold makes it extremely easy for you to diversify some of your savings into gold. If you have an IRA or an old 401k, you can convert that into a tax-sheltered IRA in physical gold. Or you can buy gold to keeping your safe.

First, get educated. Birch gold will send you a free info kit on gold. Just text my name, Peers, P-I-E-R-S, to the number 9-89-8-8-8-8. Again, text Piers to 9-8-9-9-8-8. Consider diversifying a portion of your savings into gold. That way, if the FEC can't stay ahead of the curve, at least you can stay ahead for yourself. I think some of the things you've done in your current job,

in my opinion, are essential for preserving the integrity of sport. And let's start with what I think is probably one of the most contentious things in world sport right now, which is this whole issue of trans athletes in women's sport. Donald Trump has come into office and immediately gone, right, there's a ban. We're not going to have in America trans athletes in women's sport. The immediate consequence of that is, of course, you've got the Olympics coming to Los Angeles, and he's made it clear that trans athletes will not be allowed into America if they intend to compete, which means they won't be to compete in the Olympics as far as he's concerned

because they won't get in past the border. First of all, what is your reaction to the moves he's made? I welcome the commitment to maintaining the integrity of women's sport. And for me, this is absolutely about the integrative competition. I am by nature a social liberal. I really do not choose, nor do I have any predisposition to tell people how to live there. lives. But when it comes to the biology of sport, it is very, very clear cut. And actually, I'm surprised that it has been as contentious a discussion as it has become. It seems completely

insane to me. I'm thinking about in 20, 30 years time, I'm convinced we're going to look back on this period and think everybody went completely nuts because there's a reason at the Olympics that we separate the sexes. If we didn't, women would barely win a medal. Well, you would lose women's sport. Right. It would be destroyed. It is as simple as that. And I was confronted with this issue. I don't want to get into the weeds. There are two quite distinct issues that at World Athletics we had to deal with. One was something called DSD, which is a male biology, and the other is transgender. And look, I'm not oblivious to the trauma. that people go through if they do transition.

I absolutely respect that. We have a working group at World Athletics looking at this and maintaining a watching view on changing science and the politics of this. We also have a transgender athlete on that commission, but when it comes to the female category in elite sport, it has to be sacrosanct. And the reason I think it's so important,

is that you cannot have young girls coming into the sport and sensing or feeling that at any stage there is a glass ceiling to their ability to perform at the very highest level. And you cannot have. You just simply cannot have this lack of clarity. So World Athletics, we were very clear. We followed the science, and that is critical.

I think we've used language that is moderate, You know, we're not rabid here. And when I discuss this, I tend to always pull myself up short and say, I have two daughters. How would I feel if they were being discussed at this moment? So it's really important that we use language that is moderate. But for me, this is sacrosan. What I don't like about the whole debate, and I haven't done from the stars, anyone that I think my political leanings are probably not dissimilar to yours, right?

I've always been a pretty liberal guy. Middle of the road. Yeah, exactly. And I've really resented the fact that if you try and defend women's rights to fairness and equality and safety, actually, you get, you have been until now. It's changing quite quickly, but you get branded instantly transphobic as if somehow you're anti-trans people. It's a really interesting point you make. Funnily enough, when we made the decision, and it wasn't a, this wasn't a unilateral decision. I have a council. I have a 20, people on my council, male and female. I've got an executive board. We have a health and science team. But actually, when we made the decision and we went out and properly articulated what our concerns were, we didn't end up in that landscape because we were very clear and we showed a lead. We took a lead here. And some other international federations, I'm very pleased, have followed in the same way.

I don't condemn those that haven't because I can't sit here assuming that everybody's going to see the world the way I do. But you know... You're seeing it scientifically and biologically. I mean, there's a factual element to what you're doing. I think the other bodies, you haven't taken action yet, are just putting their head in the sand, hoping this all blows over and they haven't got to do anything.

Which is actually, it's a form of moral cowardice. It's the worst position to be in here is where you have lack of clarity. Yes. You have to have clarity here because, you know, the world of sport needs a lead here. And we've thought about this long and hard. And it really does come down to the integrity. You know, if you have the integrity of sport absolutely at the heart of every decision you make and the welfare of the athletes at the heart of every decision you make,

you won't go far wrong. And that's really, those have been my two guiding pillars. If I let that go, then I've lost the integrity of the sport for women, and I'm just not prepared to do that. I mean, if you were at your peak, and I was in my late teens, when you and Steve Overt and Steve Cram had your magnificent battles and instill great pride in the country with your tremendous wins, but if you had decided at the time, right, I'm going to now identify as a woman.

And the only criteria was that you just had to reduce your time. testosterone level, for example, which is the argument some people give. You've still got the physiology that you were given as a biological man. Therefore, you would have completely dominated women's sport to a degree that you would have broken the records which could then never be broken again by an actual biological woman. That's always been my thing about it. You would also have deprived a biological woman, but a woman, they're not biological women, they're women. You would have deprived a woman of a place in an Olympic. team, a world championship team, because you're taking it and you would have won everything,

right? That to me right there is the problem. Pierce, I could actually repeat word for word what you've just said. I don't actually dissent from any of them. The challenge we've got is that we need to communicate this. We need to communicate it liberally, and we need to communicate it in language that is not rabid, it is follow the science. Have you thought about what? For me, it's really clear. Yeah. Gender must not override biology. Because if you do, then you are into a really dangerous landscape.

Have you thought about what happens to trans athletes? In other words, you know, I want trans people to have the same rights to fairness, equality and safety as I want for women and for men, and the right to compete in sport. And it seems to me there's only one of two ways that this gets resolved where they can continue to compete. You either have a new category for trans athletes, and it doesn't work with the other way around with the trans men because obviously they don't have the biological advantage.

But for trans women, of whom they're an increasing number identifying as trans women, they either compete in a new category or they compete against their biological sex, it seems to me. Well, there may be a time, and it may not be that far. I'm not going to bind the hands of my successor at World Athletics. They will have to make a judgment. in the fullness of time as whether you do have a third category. Do you think that's the only sensible way?

No, I don't, at this moment, no, I don't. But I'm not going to sit there when I'm not on the scenes telling everybody that, you know, because we did what we did, when we did it, I tend to agree with you. I think we'll look back on this and see this as being a really big point of inflection. But again, this is something that needs to be clarified.

The position we've taken in World Athletics is that in elite level, women's competition, we should not have transgender competitors. For all the reasons you pointed out, I talked about the ambition and the aspiration of young girls to come into your sport. You absolutely need that. But there's another issue, and you raised it, and that is the residual physiological, physiological, biomechanical, anatomical advantage that you maintain. But we're not sitting here saying, nor do I have, I don't have the jurisdiction,

I certainly don't have the moral disposition, to tell trans athletes, they can't enjoy the physicality of sport. If a trans athlete wanted to run in the Falmouth 5K for the local hospital, I don't have a problem with that. No, why would anybody have a problem with that? But it fundamentally alters, it fundamentally alters the dynamic of elite-level international sport for women. And that's where we've drawn the line. I mean, there's also, I think, a clear safety issue.

Like if you looked at the boxing, the women's boxing in the Olympics in Paris, with Imman Khalif, who no one's really quite sure what the situation is with Imman Khalid, other than she was banned from the World Championships for supposedly testing positive for male chromosomes. she has refused to have a test, a public test, to say either way. I think you want tests brought in. We agreed that the other day, and it's in line with every international medical standard. It's a simple swab test? Yes, absolutely.

And it just determines whether you have male chromosomes. Exactly. And actually, there is an important element here as well, because for athletes with DSD, you're actually also wanting to identify. the medical challenges. For those who don't know, what is D.S.D.? It is effectively a woman, a girl that is born with male biology. And the production of testosterone is, look, testosterone is the key determinant in competition.

You know, let me, again, if I can, I'm not a scientist, but if I can put this into sort of simple terms, when my daughters, your daughters were competing in primary school sports, up to about the age of 11 or 12, they were probably seeing off most of the boys in the class. When puberty kicks in, the gap opens and that gap doesn't close. So what we're really saying is that any athlete that passes through puberty should be clearly classified. And again, the issue around the boxing, it was just a lack of clarity. Well, also, it was actually, well, I thought it was worse, actually, because you had someone who'd been banned from the World Championships over serious question marks about her alleged chromosomes.

And you had a female fighter quitting after 40 seconds and saying afterwards, I've never been hit that hard. And I found that pretty scary that you may have a situation where somebody who, for all intents and purposes, is male, beating up or. woman in a boxing ring in the Olympics? There had to be more to it than simple identification of sex on a passport. Right. You know, it was really important that you have those systems in place. And that's really always... What did you feel when you saw that?

Well, I'm sorry, I was on the British boxing board of control for six years, and I have daughters. I mean, how do you think I feel? Tell me. Well, uncomfortable. Yeah. I think most people did. But again, the people I think that were let down in that were, believe it or not, the competitors.

I don't disagree with that. They were the athletes. If you'd had systems in place that were clear and were clear and concise. Which you had as world athletics. That couldn't have happened. That couldn't have happened. And that's something we need to. That is something we have to address.

So to be clear, if you were to become president of the IOC, for example, you're in charge of the Olympics. would one of the first things you'd want is to have utter consistency over issues like this across everyone competing? Yes, there is a clear caveat here because the international federations must themselves have the autonomy to make decisions that are in the best...

Can you override them? No. And we probably shouldn't. The decision we took in World Athletics was because we felt it was in the best interest of the sport. I'm not sitting here. I'm not the kind of leader that sits there and goes, one size fits all.

But what I do think is it is incumbent upon the International Olympic Committee to at least set the tone and the thought leadership around this. And international federations, I think, would take a lead. The problem is that you just have, there's no clear-cut clarity around this. And until you get that, I'm afraid you will have more examples of what we just talked. I was watching CNN yesterday and they had a sprinter called CCT. who was biologically male competed as a male for a long time and then switched and said, I'm now a woman. And I made the point on, I didn't mean to be transphobic at all. I just said,

look, this is somebody who presents like a man, talks like a man, sprints like a man is a tall, powerful athlete sprinter and is now smashing women's records. And I said, I'm sorry, but to me it's cheating. It's as much cheating as doping because you are deliberately seeking an unfair advantage over your competitors. Would you go as far as that? I'm not sure I would use... I absolutely understand where you were coming from on this. I'm not sure I would use that language.

What I would say is that you've got to have systems in place that prevent that from happening. And that's it. You've got to go absolutely back to basics here. Have your systems, and everybody understands what that is. I mean, look, you know, there are... There is a set of records in one US state that have been set by two boys that turned up in a state championship and just suddenly said to the organizing committee, we... I think C.C. Telfer was one of them.

We're assigned as women. Well, you know, you've got to have clear-cut. You've got to have clear-cut policies here because you're leaving even a local organizing committee in a real quantum. If you have those decisions that are made at the top and they're filtered down and they're communicated properly, then, you know, you're going to obviate a lot of the pain for athletes in this as well. Because this is not an easy situation for an athlete to be. And I don't sit here thinking that anybody that chooses to become, you know, to transition to go through that transgender process is somebody that is going through anything other than a trauma. But I think we should listen to people like Caitlin Jenner, who when you were young, you remember as Bruce Jenner winning Olympic decafalon gold medal,

rapping himself at the time in a big American flag, but he has become a real voice of sanity in all this debate. Well, I know Caitlin very well, and of course, you know, we were not quite contemporaries, but, you know, won games before me. And I had this conversation not that long ago in the US. And, I mean, to introduce a slightly, comedic element. You know, she is absolutely clear

that this has to be in agree with me that you have to have clear-cut policies. And then laughed and said, I play golf. Do you think I whack that off the women's tea? You know, so there is a residual strength. But she was invited to go off the women's teas originally when she first tried and she said no.

No, no. And she teased off the men's teas. And that's why, interestingly, the compromise in the end, it could be there's a new category or it could be they simply compete against their biological sex, as Caitlin does by going off the men's teas when she plays golf? I think there is a different scale of challenge here as well, because with all due respects, in athletics,

you have somebody in that situation in an 800 metres or whatever it happens to be. They're probably going to win by half a straight. That's embarrassment and frustration. We're not a contact sport unless it goes horribly wrong, and the judges have to get involved. So there is a much bigger challenge in contact sports. And that's where the safeguarding element of this and the physical safeguarding is really critical.

I mean, I'm not asking you to give a general view about President Trump, but on this issue, given he'll be president when the Olympics goes to L.A., is he right on this? He's right on the principle that, as we've just talked about, I'm not going to get into the local conditions that he's setting about, you know, visas and all that. That is very much a U.S. issue. If I become president of World Athletics, I also, I'm not Naim and Koi. That's in my intray.

But that's something I'm, you know, there's no certainty of outcome here. It's an election. As you know well, it's not an exact science. But that is something that clearly would be a challenge. but insofar as he has set out to protect the female category, then the logic of what I've said has to support that NOSPRA. What about Russia? Because they're currently banned by the IOC.

Athletes from Russia and Belarus are only allowed to compete in Paris as neutral athletes. 32 of them competed. But I think you as World Athletics President, you weren't one step further. and no track and field athletes from either country were allowed to compete even as neutral. Yeah, but there's a bit more of a history to that, if you don't mind me saying. I became president 2015 talking about intrays. I had to deal with an in-tray that contained Russia that had in the space of less than two years, 149 positive tests in athletics.

It wasn't something I could sit on my hands and say, or one more new cycle, we'll sort this out. And there were other things that were going on at the same time. So in 2015, we suspended the Russian Federation. We set up a task force. It was independently chaired by one of the most eminent, you know, doping experts, anti-doping experts in Norwegian. And bit by bit and slowly by bit, over seven years,

we actually got Russia into, and we have got them into a decent position where the Athletic Integrity Unit, which is what I set up with my own reforms, has now got control of the testing. We've got two or three independent people. They've got a new federation. And actually, had the Russia-Ukraine situation

not raised its head, they would have been ready to come back. And I would have been actually quite pleased with that because we'd been through the process, clearly, what works out, you know, what happens now is a little above my pay grade and is being, you know, discussed as we speak in South. So we actually introduced the concept of neutral athletes. And when I did it, everybody said, oh, it'll never work. And within a year, everybody was actually using it.

But when we got to the situation, and again, it's about integrity here. This wasn't about passports or politics. I actually studied Russian history, interestingly. That's not why we did it. The same guiding principles around what we've just discussed in transgender for me pertained in the Russia situation, and that is that we suddenly had lost a country who had a proud tradition in track and field

from being able to compete properly. If male athletes were out on the front line, some of them losing their lives, female athletes were wondering where their husband's boyfriends and coaches were. So it was just a very unequal situation. But look, situations alter. We have a working group that will look and monitor this and will regularly report back to the council as what situation must pertain.

Teenage runner, Aidan Gallagher, became the Oregon Girls' 200-meter state champion last week, posting one of the fastest times in the state. history with a remarkable display of power and stamina. But as Aidan crossed the finish line, something, well, pretty unusual happened. Instead of joyous cheering and adulation, many of the watching spectators loudly booed. Well, the same thing happened when Gallagher received a gold medal on the podium, but the runner-up was loudly cheered when she received her silver. And there's an explanation for all this.

Gallagher is a transgender athlete who was born a biological male and therefore has a vastly superior physiology to show for it. And as far all video clips from the race show, Gallagher towered over many of the competing girls displaying greater height, power and speed that frankly made a mockery of any pretence to fairness or equality. The reaction of the crowd is a small moment in the grand scheme of things, but it might prove to be extremely significant.

A couple of years ago would have been very different. This would have been hailed as he led his progressive symbolic victory for inclusivity and tolerance. But now mainstream opinions finally waking up to what is honestly insane. Ward Out Thatex has banned trans athletes who've been through male puberty from competing against women. But the state-level bureaucrats are miles behind the Oregon authorities said they define a woman based on their consistently asserted gender identity. But honestly, that's just disingenuous bullshit. Yes, trans people deserve the same rights from respect

as everybody else. They should have fairness and equality. They should have the same human rights as me. But you can't consistently assert the massive physical differences that come from being born male or female and compete in sport. Those rights cannot come

at the expense of women's rights to fairness and equality in their own sport. Now, for years, anyone prepared to speak up about this like me, was instantly shamed and vilified as a transphope. But the reaction of the crowd in Oregon, which is actually, excuse

more liberal than conservative shows the silent majority might finally be fighting back and letting their feelings be heard loud and clear. Well, joining me to debate this and more. A comedian and podcast of James Barr, unscensored contributor Esther Cracker, Outkick host

Tommy Leran, and the host of the Bituation Room podcast, Francesca Furentini. So welcome to all of you. Tommy, let me start with you. I watched a video of this as a father of a 12-year-old girl who loves a bit of sport. And honestly, my heart is sank. But when I heard the booing, I was thrilled, not because the athlete was being booed. I felt

awful for the trans athlete, but because I finally felt that the silent majority were finding their voice. What did you think? Yeah, I also think that it's big that this happened in a place like Oregon. Oregon is not conservative, maybe certain parts, but certainly the majority of Oregon is certainly more on the left side. So I think the fact that the crowd is saying, hey, this is unacceptable. That's a big moment. But we just have to stop denying this, peers. I mean, the silent majority, and I would agree that the majority, actually, the more vocal majority now is saying that this is absolutely ludicrous. And listen, I think we need to stop talking about biological men competing against biological women and women's sports. This is a trans person, a trans woman competing against

actual women. Stop dismissing women by calling us biological women. We are just women. So I want to put that out there first. I agree. Why are we constantly, and when I say we, why is popular culture constantly asserting that trans people, their feelings, their emotions, their inclusion is more important than the majority of women who just want to have fairness,

want to compete, want to have achievements, accomplishments, and opportunities? Why do their feelings matter more than the feelings of the women that they're competing against? It's ridiculous. We keep coddling and cowcowing to this madness. I hope we're seeing the end of it, and I think within the next couple of years,

we will. Yeah, I mean, I'm amazed that every woman, frankly, doesn't agree with you because the unfairness and inequality is so obvious, but Francesca, I can see you actually going berserk here with indignation. So presumably you don't agree. I mean, just,

I just, please don't speak for me. You know what I'm saying? Like, either of you, please don't speak for me. Please don't speak for all women. Just let's get that out of the way right now, because I do disagree. I think about what if your kid, what if your 12-year-old kid was Aiden. Wouldn't that be incredible? Wouldn't you be proud of Aiden? No.

And how much would it... No. Absolutely not. Unless that child had not even reached puberty and is, in case of my daughter, for example, and someone is trying to convince her that if you just put your hand up and say that you're a boy, you can suddenly compete against a different biological sex. I'd say it's all madness. Pierce, I really, this is what's crazy about it. Do you think that this? That's what's driving trans women to compete as athletes is that they're like, hmm, if I transition to become a woman, I can win a gold medal in a high school track and meet competition. Hang on, Vachesca, I don't care.

That is so absurd to me. It's the same thing. Hey, let me speak. I don't care. The reality is they're doing it, right? And the point is, to me, the answer is obvious. They're not doing it to win a medal. They're doing it because that is their identity.

But they're winning medals at the expense of actual women who can't compete with them physically. It's why we separate the sexist. You know what? Like, I actually Googled this. I'm embarrassed to a woman. Hang on. Hang on. I come to you to.

I'm embarrassed to be a woman when I see women freaking out about trans women winning one one out of so many competitions. It's not just one. Okay. It's happening in swimming with Leah Thomas. Hang on. Hang on. It's happening in all sorts of sports. Yes.

Because it makes us look really pathetic, honestly. It makes us look like losers and wine. And guess what? I'm not a loser or whiner. You know what I actually want to talk about when it comes to women's sports? Why is Caitlin Clark being paid 80 times less than her counterpart entering the NBA?

Well, that's quite straightforward, too. Because nobody watches it. Women don't want to talk about that. Hold on, hold on, hold on. Can I ask you a question? Women don't want to ever talk about that. Let me ask you a question. If I hit you over the head with a bat

and I said the plan wasn't to kill you, it's because you had a fly in your head, would you still not go to the police for assault? Does my intention matter? Because that's exactly what you're just trying to ruby. No, but that's exactly what you're saying. No, that's exactly what you're saying. Just because trans people are not identifying as trans to basically erode women's sports, that

makes it okay. That that's exactly what they're doing. You think that's what they're doing. Let me finish. You know what the issue is. You know what the issue is. You know what the issue is very funny. You know what the issue is they are useful idiots like you that are validating a scientific

nonsense. There's no such thing as gender identity. Being trans identifying is a mental. an illness, a reality that exists only in your head should not be validated and specifically not at the expense of people that are just going about their business trying to win sporting tournaments or trying to

use a loop. And if you feel, if you feel embarrassed about people, you can basically go to an island where all women think like you and you can compete with all the biological men you want but do not impose your backward views on the rest of us and have your audacity to call

us regressive. Okay. Francescu, you respond now come to James. My response is is this, look, I care more about human life and people actually, I care about the right to privacy. I care about people surviving and living in this world. Yes, I do. You don't seem to care about the right to privacy of biological women not wanting to share their spaces with biological men. What about them? What about the number of trans youth who commit suicide every single year? What's about biological women? Hey, hey, hey, used to share a bathroom with a biological man. Talk about that. Don't do what about, answer that question. What about them? Do they not matter?

Look, look, lady, you can go into every bathroom and pick a fight with every person who you think is in the wrong bathroom. That's your prerogative. I'm talking about a teenager. What should I do? A teenager being booed. Guys, let's not bully, okay? I believe it was Melania Trump who said, be best. And we know what bullying leads to Stephen Miller.

You know what it is. Okay, but Francesco, I'm going to come to James. To me, it's conflating two issues. You could absolutely support trans rights to fairness and equality. as I do and consistently have. But you can also see that there is obviously a massive problem now, getting increasing now in women's sport.

And there's a reason, and we've had this conversation, Jay's, but you gave a preposterous answer last time. There's a reason we separate sexes in the Olympics, in the world championships, because otherwise women would never win anything. So that's why we do it. It's not because women aren't great athletes. Women would never win anything.

They're great athletes when competing against people physically born like that. Listen, I have so much to say, I want to explode. Firstly, Esther, you're the only thing making anyone angry or incensed right now, so you're causing me a mental health issue. So really, if there's a mental illness, it's actually you.

I would like to take a pill to remove you from my life. Going back to the state here, like most of the female winners in this sport, they are hitting around 22 to 24 seconds, which is exactly what the gold medalist won here. And then also following up with what you said,

what's your point? My point is, this is normal for a woman. No, you'll slow down. It's a normal speech. for a woman in a race. But let's get back to what you're saying. You're talking about women's safety in changing rooms. Let me finish, please.

You're talking about women's safety in changing rooms. That's what Esther brought this conversation down to. But what I do know about is that one in three women in America are abused violently in their lifetime. And in every single day in America, 13,000 women are a victim. Why are we talking about one trans woman being in a changing room? How dare you a man say anything about women feeling unsafe in bathrooms with biological men.

No, you can't, because you're not a woman. You have never had a period. You've never been a woman in a woman's toilet. So don't even mention that. I'm not picking on that. I'm talking about the fact that women around the world are being affected because we are validating a scientific way. You're shouting a biological man, your words.

And you're allowed to talk about biological men. So why am I not allowed to talk about women? I'm talking about women. Hang on. Hang on. Hang on. We are confating various issues here. So let's get back to the actual.

issue we wanted to debate, which is the issue of this young summer for, Aidan Gallagher, I come back to Tommy here. You know, I know this debate always inspires everyone to get very angry and there's lots of allegations of transphobia and so on. I really think they're missing the central point. There is a reason we separate sexes in sport. And the reason, like I said, when the Olympics are in Paris later this summer, if you allowed women and men to compete in a generalized way, then women would win almost no men. literally other than one or two events, possibly equestrian, possibly archery, there are very few things, anything that involves power or stamina or speed or snow.

Pierce, can I ask you a question really quickly? Yes. Because have you ever undergone any kind of like hormone replacement therapy? No, you mean chopped off his penis? No, I haven't. Hang on. I'm not talking to you, Esther. Hang on.

Okay. I'm talking to Pierce. Yeah. Because actually, the body does go. undergo an incredible amount of toil. What it doesn't do, Francesca, I've heard this argument. Hang on, hang on. It doesn't change your body mass.

No, it doesn't. It does. It absolutely can change your body mass. No, it doesn't. The amount of hormones that can drain. Talk to someone like Caitlin Jenner, who was, as a man, was the DeKathland Gold Medal winner

for the United States of America. And was then when she took up golf, having transitioned, was told she could tee off. From the women's teas, right? The women's teas are 50 yards further ahead than the men's, and she said she was winning every tournament. Asking Caitlin Jennifer, any advice or practical information is asking you, Pierce, how to get a six-pack?

What are we doing? Actually, I've got quite an impressive growing six-pack, as my Instagram people will tell you. The point is that your body undergoes a lot of changes, and it's actually incredibly difficult to compete. Tommy. Pears, I want to point this out, because your guests here, I mean,

talk about the snake eating its own tail. They're sitting there talking about trans rights and affirming transgender ideology. But then they're saying that Caitlin Jenner, who is probably the most famous trans person, that doesn't count. Because Caitlin Jenner is not only a Republican, but Caitlin Jenner also calls out biological men competing in women's sports. So your guests sit here and they cry boohoo tears about trans rights. But then they dismiss Caitlin Jenner. It's amazing.

These are also the same people who claim to be feminist, but also don't care about actual women being robbed of opportunities. That's why liberalism is a disease. And you can just let these people talk and they argue with themselves, Pierce. The point is, the point is, if Aiden Gallagher competed according to their biological sex, they would not be succeeding. They wouldn't be winning state challenges. They would actually not even be qualifying for the finals. That is the point everyone's missing. Pierce, is that actually... Why do you care about a high school track? But you don't... Have you done a segment on Caitlin Clark? and pay disparity?

Have you done a... Where were you when the U.S. women's national team... He doesn't need to do it. He doesn't need to do it. Well, hang on. Francisco, you have no idea, actually. Shut up. You have no idea what I said about women's pay.

What about when the women's national team wins in the United States, right? They won like four times at this point. And what happens? Oh, Megan Rapino, who is both a lesbian and also, like, one-time knelt during the national anthem. She's not a real patriot. They freak out.

Donald Trump tweets about her. You know, you're missing. Megan Rapino. Can I just miss? Megamapino is a very, very good football player, but also incredibly irritating. And I noticed that when she retired, it was only then she said that she wanted trans women to be playing in the American women's national team.

In other words, when it wasn't possible for that person to take her position, because here's a scenario for you. Lionel Messi puts his hand up and says, actually, I'm feeling like a woman today. Do you play him in the American women's national team, Francesca? Yes or no? Lionel Messi had to undergo an incredible, yes or no?

He had to undergo an incredible amount of treatment when he was young. He had a bunch of like... Would you allow him to put his hand up, say he's a woman for him to actually grow up because he had a growth spurt. I'm a big messy fan, so... But let me just... Answer my question.

Would you allow him if he said I'm a woman to play in the American women's national team? You're using the wrong pronoun. Yes, yes, yes, right now. Hell yeah. Are you kidding? me, Messi on the U.S. Women's National team? Hell yeah. Would you allow Usain

Bolt to do that and be in the sprinting team? Yes, because that would mean they're a trans woman. They identify as women. I get it. I agree. So just to be clear, you'd let Leonel Messi play in the women's national football team and destroy women's football forever. You'd let Usain Bolt... Hang on. To get a ticket, which would suck.

I want to do a little checklist here. You'd let Usain Bolt compete as a sprinter in the American Women's Olympic team? Yes. Okay. You would let Floyd Mayweather compete as a boxer in the women's American boxing team. You are a complete utter lunatic. I completely agree with Frances. I agree with Francesca.

And I'd go further, actually, Pierre. They would have to transition. You always say that you want to be a penguin. I would let you live at London Zoo in a cage like the rest of the penguins. You know what? I'd be a very popular exhibit. You would. Here's a problem.

It is so delusional. The idea you would let Usain Bolt say, I'm a woman and compete against women on a racetrack. when no man can compete with him, right? It's utterly ridiculous. I'm just convinced that they don't actually believe this, but the logical conclusion of their ludicrous arguments facilitates the need to actually say these things.

Also, this is a testament to the poor quality of public education in both the US and the UK, that you both don't understand the basic economics of how sports entertainment works. If they're not enough bums on seats, you don't get paid enough. That's literally it. So sitting there outraged about the fact that some female players don't make as much as some male athletes,

guess what? Go and buy the tickets to their games and stop boosting up their viewing figures. And then maybe... Caitlin Clark got more views. Look at the revenue for the Women's World Cup and compare it to the Men's World Cup. They are light years away. Can I say one?

It's Lydling Clark was the most watched women's college player ever. The ratings were through the roof. She's getting sponsorship. Compared to the average male college viewership. Okay. We're going to move on. She had more views than them.

We are moving on to a different issue. I want to talk about Harrison Bucker first. Tommy, I want to come to you on this. Let's just play a clip. This is a guy who is. a Kansas City Chiefs star. He made a commencement speech at Benedictine College in which you told women they should aspire to be homemakers.

Take a look. I think it is you, the women, who have had the most diabolical lies told to you. How many of you are sitting here now about to cross this stage and are thinking about all the promotions and titles you are going to get in your career? Some of you may go on to lead successful careers in the world, but I would venture to guess that the majority of you are most excited about your marriage and the children you will bring into this world. Not the deadly sin sort of pride

that has an entire month dedicated to it, but the true God-centered pride, be unapologetic in your masculinity, fighting against the cultural emasculation of men. Now, Tommy, this created a huge furority, of course. The Kansas City, well, the NFL, I think, threw him under a bus immediately, said they were outraged, it wasn't their opinions and so on.

But there's been a lot of surprising voices to support. Bill Maher, for example, a liberal, came out and basically supported his right to say this. It's obviously religiously motivated what he said. What did you make him what he came out with? Listen, I don't agree with everything that he said, but I also think a lot of people are taking it out of context. He's a Catholic speaking to other Catholics.

So you have to put that in context. He's not speaking to people at a pride parade. He's speaking to Catholics who hold traditional Catholic views. And there's nothing wrong with him expressing his opinions. We can disagree with that. But I would also like to point out that when he's giving this commencement speech as a Catholic to Catholics, he's not like some of the other athletes who want to kneel at an actual football game or who want to force fellow athletes to wear rainbows when they're going to compete at their sport. He's giving a commencement speech to Catholics.

So the left really needs to decide, do they want athletes to take a stand or not? Because we are told that Colin Kaepernick and others, LeBron James, Megan Rapino, they should be hailed for their political speech. But then Harrison Bucker, who gives a speech, a commencement speech to fellow Catholics, all of a sudden, that's a bridge too far. Okay. James, James, your response. I mean, he talked about Catholic pride. Really?

Pride in God. I think it's actually the most shocking part of that was the fact that he mentioned Taylor Swift and called her his teammates' girlfriend. That is so offensive. That is so offensive. He said that, well, she has a name. She's one of the most successful women on the planet. He was obviously joking. And he was talking about how.

Why have you got no sense of human you left me? Only focusing on having kids. The Woke Brigade can never laugh. When you all get together, do you ever tell jokes? Do you know what? You're supposed to be a comedian. Piers Morgan. Maybe Arsenal should take his advice and just sit at home and get married and not play football

because clearly they didn't play a very good job. But actually, fundamentally, as he, as Tommy said, why is he not allowed to have those views? There are many women who sit at home, by the way, doing a much harder job than anyone's sitting here, right? Because he has a responsibility. Sitting at home, bringing up children is a hard, hard job. Very.

Why do we denigrated by saying that's all you're going to do? I'm not denigrating it, but how dare you tell anyone what they should be doing? It's not an opinion if you're telling people what they should be doing. He's allowed to give them advice? Tell women that were in the room that they'd wasted four years. You tell people what's disgusting. Hold on. But Tommy's point is right.

He's allowed an opinion. But what you're missing is that this opinion is being broadcast to millions of people. Hold on. James, would you have had a problem if he said go out there and be boss babes, girls and be CEOs and all of that? No. You only have a problem because you disagreed with his stance. Exactly. I think one of the interesting things he said is that many women would look forward to their promotions and all of that, but they'd look forward to being mothers more.

Because actually, many women don't have great careers. Most women don't get to be CEOs. They don't get to be business owners. They usually become administrators working on. No, but the point is we've glamorized this whole idea of women in the workforce, as in go be boss babe and do, you know, own Facebook and all of that. And the vast majority, the overwhelming majority of women are overworked, underpaid, doing unglomerate. jobs and somehow that's seen as something to be glorified as being a gossip. But what it also comes back to, there's also this whole idea of what activism is allowed

and not, how should people be forced to do it. For instance, there's a football player who plays from Monaco in France, and he's from Mali in Africa. He's called Muhammad Kamara. And he and the whole team were told to wear LGBTQ and the rest of it pride badges before a game and he refused, right? And the French sports minister has now said he will be facing the strongest sanctions against him and his club for refusing to wear an LGBT pride badge. Now, James, again, I simply say this, why the hell should he have to? If his conviction is from a country, by the way, which is a place where they do not believe that homosexuality is anything but a sin, I don't agree with that. You don't agree with that, obviously. But that's where he comes from.

His religious conviction tells him that. He's not being homophobic. He's not saying homophobic things. He just doesn't want to wear an LGBT pride badge while he's playing football. Why the hell should he? LGBT and the rest of it, did you say? Do you want to know what the rest of the letters are? Even you don't know.

I do you actually. Go on, man. LGBTQFU. Now, back to what he was saying, let's have a conversation about it. Oh, you actually can't remember the rest of the digits, can't. I can't. Nobody can. Let's have a conversation about it. He also covered up a sign that said no homophobia in French.

So, you know, why should he have to wear them? On one hand, I'm like, cool, if you don't want to wear the rainbow flag, that's a bit awkward. But if you don't want to wear a flag that says no homophobia, why should he have to? So what, are you pro-homophobia? No. If you don't want to support no... He doesn't want to wear it. No homophobia just means no bullying.

It means human rights. And if you don't want to say that, then what the hell are you doing on the team? I've got to be honest. I wouldn't wear an LGBT pride badge. Would you support homophobia? No. Right. But this is, peers, it is a private company. I mean, it is a football team, right?

That's their prerogative. This is not a nation state implementing this. Yeah, I mean, right. So I don't know why you're getting so upset and also it's like a weird transition. Okay. Well, they should. Okay, you think it's okay?

Then he can go play somewhere where they don't make them wear that. Tommy, let me bring you in for the common sense as usual. No, but I thought we're talking about Harrison Butker. I didn't get any bite at the buttker. apple here. Well, I'll have a part of the bunker apple. I think we all know what we're going to say. So we can just summarize that. Girl, don't you have a Beyonce album to get pissed off about this?

She's in a cowboy outfit. Ooh, she got an American flag on. She thinks she's a country singer. I'm sure you've got a few videos to do about that. But whatever. Yeah, that's why. Please don't interrupt me when I'm about. You seem rather obsessed with my work, so I appreciate it.

Here's, I'd like to get back to the point at hand. Yes. So, again, women supporting women, be quiet, well. I talk. No, you talk, Trey can you? Francesca, can you let another woman speak, please? Yeah.

No. So much for being a feminist. No, I'm not going to because you talked about Harrison, and now I'm going to talk about Harrison. Harrison Butker's mom is a physicist who works in an oncology department. All this is is a bunch of mommy issues that he laid out at a bunch of female graduates who are trying to celebrate this incredible achievement. And he tells them that they have been told a diabolical lie.

I mean, that is absolutely disrespectful and degrading. Okay. You want to talk about women's rights, they've just achieved this. Your point. And the other thing is the rest of his speech was about, oh, what happened to the Catholics and all the good Catholicism and where have we gone around? Why don't we respect priests anymore? Gee, I wonder why we don't respect priests anymore.

Can anyone think of what's happened to the priesthood in the last 20, 30, 40, 50 years? Anyone? No? Yeah, that's what I thought. Yeah, there have been a lot of priests have been exposed as paedophiles, and it's completely outrageous. I say that as a Catholic, who's as a poor bite as you are. I'm joined now by the Daily Wise Matt Walsh from Nashville.

How's the weather matter? Here it's a little chilly down there. So we got about three inches of snow, and it shut the whole city down. That's the way we do it here in the South. So it's been an adventure, for sure. Well, it's good to see you. So much to talk about, as always, in your wheelhouse. But I want to talk about this extraordinary story about the Federal Aviation Administration,

actively recruiting workers who suffer severe intellectual disabilities, psychiatric problems, and other mental and physical conditions under a diversity and inclusion hiring initiative spelled out on the agency's website. On the face of it, this seems plain, ridiculous. Your thoughts? Yeah, on the face of it, it seems plain ridiculous. I think when you look deeper, it still seems pretty. plain ridiculous. Now, obviously, no one is claiming that at this point, they're going to hire,

you know, someone who's blind or paralyzed to actually fly, you know, a Delta aircraft 30,000 feet in the air. So we're not, maybe we'll get to that point. We're not at that point yet. But the point is that they have decided, this goes back to, I believe it was 2013, an Obama-era initiative by the FAA, that they wanted to diversify the airline industry. And they have have a lot of several different groups that they wanted to increase their participation in the airline industry. And those with disabilities is one of those groups. Now, what you'll hear from people on the other side of this, the people that are fans of these kinds of diversification efforts, is that, well, yeah, they're doing this, but they're not lowering the standards at all in order to do it.

That's the claim anyway. And it's true that whether it's DFA or any other institution that is putting DEI into practice and trying to diversify, none of them will come out and say, of course, none of them are going to say that we're lowering the standards. But that obviously is what ends up happening. Because if you had the standards set a certain place and then you ended up with like a certain number of, let's say, white pilots. And then you say, well, we don't want that many white pilots. So we want to get more of other types of people in there. Well, what do you have to do with the standards? You end up lowering them, and that's exactly what happens.

I mean, I saw that the new coach in the NFL has replaced Bill Belichick of the Patriots. And he's immediately come out and played the race card and basically saying, if you don't see color, you don't understand racism and so on. Other black coaches in the NFL have taken a very different view and said, all they want to see is football and players. They don't care about what color they are. And it struck me as sort of a bizarre stance to take because the vast majority of players, for example, in the NFL are black.

I think nearly 70%. What did you make of that when you heard it? Well, I think if you are that, if we're getting to the point where we can find anti-black racism in the NFL, well, then just the concept means nothing anymore. As you point out, I think it's like 70 to 80 percent of players in the NFL are black. The NFL, if you take all the different positions on the field and on the sidelines, it is, you know, black people are vastly overrepresented when you compare them to the 13% of the overall population.

So if we're looking for racism even there, then then it's just the entire concept is totally meaningless. And in particular, this idea that black head coached, are being targeted for racism. Of course, I'm not the first person to point this out, but, okay, if a lack of NFL, of black NFL head coaches is a result of racism, then how do you explain a lack of, say, white defensive backs on the field? There's basically none at this point,

and are they being targeted for racism? So it just doesn't make any sense. Yeah, I mean, 60% of Americans, I think, in the most recent poll I saw are white. and yet they're not represented by 60% white players in the NFL or the NBA or most American sports, but nobody complains about that. No one says, well, hang on, that's racist. No one would think that way, the other way around.

And I admire these black coaches in the NFL who've stood up and went, no, of course, it's ridiculous, it's irrelevant. All we care is how good the player is, or how good the coaches or how good the executives are. Yeah, and that's, and by the way, the reason why people don't complain, the other way, is that, of course, we know that diversify, diversity and inclusion, all these phrases, this is coded language, and what it really means is we have to make these things less white. But nobody wants to come out and say that. That's one of the reasons why you'll often hear

them refer to not only diverse groups, but they'll talk about diverse people. We need a more diverse person in this role. How could a person individually be diverse? It doesn't make any sense. well, then you understand what they're really saying is we want a non-white person. They just don't want to come out and say that. I think another important point that you brought up is that, you know, if we are obsessed with representation, if it is very important, that every group be exactly represented in every industry that we look at, and I don't agree that that is important.

I think that's an unworkable, untenable, unsustainable, goal that makes no sense and it's totally arbitrary. But this is what representation would mean. Representation would mean that you have whatever your percentage is and the overall population, that's what you have in this industry. But then you find out that that's not good enough for the representation police, which is interesting. Right. Exactly. Let's take a short break, Matt.

I want to come back and talk about the Daily Wise brilliant new comedy movie, Lady Ballers, which the title may give people a clue about what issue this is about. but of course it relates to this ongoing furority around trans athletes in women's sport. We'll talk about that after the night. And show a clip. So, short, Matt Walsh is still with. Welcome back to Oncensit from New York. It was a lot colder than it looked in that live shot.

Matt Walsh is still with me. Matt, Lady Ballers is the brilliant new movie from you guys at Daily Wires. Take a look at a little clip. Let's cut to the case. I know you're not a woman. How he identifies? If you can beat them.

What do you know about the elite? U.S. opens for the global games. You want us to compete as women. $5,000 prizes. My lover says you're a great coach back in the day. Join. This is the way the world is now. My eight-year-old daughter told me all about it.

So a guy can become a girl with no physical changes at all. Oh, that's called Jinders Living. I mean, it's a brilliant idea. First of all, why did you make it? Well, I can't take credit for making the movie or writing it or anything like that. I play a relatively small role in the film. And I think my entire role is really just me being trolled by the director of the film, is also the CEO of the company of Jeremy Boring,

where he decided to write a role for me, where I am the exact opposite of who I am in real life, just to make me as uncomfortable as possible. So I'm playing this kind of left-wing hippie character. He's also a big hugger. I'm big into hugging people in the movie. But I think the reason why the movie exists is pretty simple. Number one, it's a really funny idea.

And it's also, it's the kind of, it's kind of movie that needs to exist. Like this, this whole concept of men competing against women and women's sports is absurd. It's, it's ridiculous. It is, it's laughable. And, you know, if this kind of thing was happening 25 years ago, there would probably be a comedy like this made about it. But these days, well, they don't really make comedies anymore at all. But they certainly are going to make a comedy making fun of this. So, so, uh, who?

we did. And the truth is that it really takes the whole argument on the pro-trans athlete side to its logical conclusion. You know, I've always, when I've interviewed politicians who don't want to speak common sense about this, I said, well, okay, so if you have limitless

self-identity and anyone can say I'm now female, what happens if Usain Bolt or Floyd Mayweather decide they want to be a woman? Would you be happier than competing against biological females in women's sport? And they always have to say yes. and it's always completely preposterous.

Floyd Mayweather would kill women in a ring, and Yussein Bolt would win the 100 meters women's Olympic final by about 99 meters. I mean, it's an absurdity, which this film brilliantly lampoons, but is actually true. It is true, which is why you don't have to work that hard to make fun of it, and you don't even have to exaggerate that much.

You know, this is one of the things actually, maybe it makes satire difficult these days, is that the reality itself is so ridiculous that it's usually in satire you're taking something, you're taking the logic to an extreme extent to show how ridiculous it is. But in this case, all you're doing is this is what's actually happening in real life. And I think that what you said there is key, though. You said that they have to. You were talking to someone who supports men and women's sports.

They have to. They have to go along with it. They have to agree to whatever absurd scenarios. you throw at them. And they really do, they have to. But I don't think they actually believe it. I think that the number of people who really deep down believe that it's fair and right for biological males compete against females and sports. I mean, the number of people is vanishingly small. But on the left, they basically box themselves into a corner. And so they have to defend this. And we should make them defend it. Whilst simultaneously trying to pretend that they are pro women's rights, I mean, that's the absurdity.

because, of course, it's women's rights to fairness and equality that are being dismantled at this altar of virtue signaling nonsense. And there are also the people that have claimed in the past to care so much about maintaining women's sports. I mean, that's what Title IX was supposed to be about. You know, people often accuse me on the left. They'll say that, they'll say, well, you don't even care about women's sports that much. You're just pretending.

I never said that. I don't wake up in the morning worrying about women's sports. I don't watch women's sports. So in that sense, yeah, I don't care about it in that sense. But I do care about just what's right. I care about what's logical, what makes sense. I care about the kids that are involved in these sports and protecting them. So, yeah, but if you do pretend that this is something that's very important to you,

then the question is, why aren't you there taking up this? Right. I mean, I care because I have a 12-year-old daughter who's quite sporty, and I don't want her to, if she was to suddenly be very successful at some sport, women's sport. I don't want to have her have a dream killed or a place in a team or, you know, even you see it at an Olympic level. You see women being deprived of an Olympic place, a coveted, glorious Olympic place by a biological male. That's just not right. It's not fair. It's not right. It's not equal. It's none of those things.

And you're also, I also would not want my daughter, I wouldn't want her athletic opportunities taken from her if she decided to get into sports. I don't want her to be in a position where she has to go along with something that is a total farce. Like that, it's wrong to put anybody, especially kids, no matter what the context is, to put them in a position

where they have to, where they feel pressured to go along with something like that. And especially when the pressure is coming from adults. I mean, it's one thing when you deal with peer pressure as a kid from other kids. But in this case, it's the adults that are using their authority in their power to usher you along in this direction.

I think it's just totally ridiculous. Now, I want to put two pictures up on the screen for our audience. These are both Calvin Klein underwear commercials. One stars a female model, and the other one stars the Bears actor Jeremy Allen White. And what is comical about this is that they both reveal a lot of flesh. In fact, the man reveals more flesh than the woman. The female one has been censored by the advertising standards authority because it's overtly sexual, but the other one is apparently absolutely fine. I've seen this hypocrisy, a double standard on these kind of things for decades, Matt.

Right? It's absurd, isn't it? It is totally absurd. For that one, it's hard for me to even understand. I mean, usually when you have an absurdity like this, you can understand what logic they're going for, even if it doesn't really make sense ultimately. but in that case, I'm not even sure exactly what would their argument be. Apparently, the argument was that the ad involving FCA twig, the model's physical features, rather than the clothing, presented as a stereotypical sexual object. He has less clothes on than she does. Yeah, it doesn't make it sense.

But when you're talking about things like decency and modesty, and that's an important conversation to have, but I think in our culture, we don't have a very coherent notion of what that even is or how to be. to apply it, and that's how you end up with confused situations. Ridiculous. Pierce Morgan Unsensit is proudly independent. The only boss around here is me. If you enjoy our show, we ask for only one simple thing.

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