Piers Morgan Uncensored - Piers Morgan Uncensored: All 5 Passengers Confirmed Dead in Titan Sub

Episode Date: June 22, 2023

On tonight's episode of Piers Morgan Uncensored, Piers brings you the moment US Coast Guard's Rear Admiral John Mauger confirmed that all passengers on the Titan Sub had passed away. Also Piers looks into the tragedy with experts including former Titan Passenger, Fred Hagen and Host of Expedition Unknown, Josh Gates. Watch Piers Morgan Uncensored at 8 pm on TalkTV on Sky 522, Virgin Media 606, Freeview 237 and Freesat 217. Listen on DAB+ and the app.  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We're now going to go live to the Coast Guard base in Boston for a press conference about what's happening. ...update on the most recent findings from ROV operations in search of the Titan submersible. He will provide a brief statement and provide the opportunity for questions after. Please limit your questions to one per outlet. Following the briefing, the Joint Information Center staff and I will be here to help you with any of your further needs. May I now please introduce Rear Admiral John Mogger. This morning, an ROV or remote-operated vehicle from the vessel Horizon Arctic discovered the tail cone of the Titan submersible approximately 1,600 feet from the bow of the Titanic on the seafloor. The ROV subsequently found additional debris in consultation with experts.

from within the unified command, the debris is consistent with the catastrophic loss of the pressure chamber. Upon this determination, we immediately notified the families. On behalf of the United States Coast Guard and the entire unified command, I offer my deepest condolences to the families. I can only imagine what this has been like for them. And I hope that this discovery provides some solace during this difficult time. Additionally, we've been in close contact with the British and French Consul General to ensure that they are fully apprised and that their concerns are being addressed. The outpouring of support in this highly complex search operation has been robust and immensely appreciated.

We are grateful for the rapid mobilization of experts on the undersea search and rescue, and we thank all of the agencies and personnel for their role in the response. We're also incredibly grateful for the full spectrum of international associations, assistance that's been provided. The ROVs will remain on scene and continue to gather information. Again, our most heartfelt condolences go out to the loved ones of the crew. We'll now take questions. This was an incredibly complex case and we're still working to develop the detail for the timeline involved with this casualty and the response. And so we'll provide that information.

So this is an incredibly complex operating environment on the seafloor over two miles beneath the surface. And so the remote operating vehicle has been searching and it is highly capable. and we've been able to classify parts of the pressure chamber for the Titan submersible. Let me refer to one of my undersea experts here, Mr. Paul Hanken, to talk about the nature of some of the debris. Thank you, Admiral. So essentially, we found five different major pieces of debris that told us told us. that it was the remains of the Titan. The initial thing we found was the nose cone,

which was outside of the pressure hall. We then found a large debris field. Within that large debris field, we found the front end bell of the pressure hall. That was the first indication that there was a catastrophic event. Shortly thereafter, we found the A second smaller debris field within that debris field, we found the other end of the pressure

hall, the aft end bell, which was basically the comprise of the totality of that pressure vessel. We continue to map the debris field and as the Admiral said, we will do the best we can to fully map out what's down there. So the questions was related. I'm restating the question from the standpoint of sometimes it's hard to hear the question here. What are the prospects for recovering crew members? And so this is an incredibly unforgiving environment down there on the sea floor. And the debris is consistent with a catastrophic implosion of

the vessel. And so we'll continue to work and continue to search the area down there. But I don't have an answer for prospects at this time. So the question was, is there any question as to whether or not the sub collided with the Titanic or whether it imploded above and debris field creative from that. So the the location of the Titan submersible was in an area that was approximately 1600 feet from the wreck of the Titanic. I have an expert here that can that is familiar with that area and can talk about the debris field and and what the debris field indicates in terms of the where the casualty may have occurred. Really quickly, can you tell me when that massive leak will be called back? The expert voice is coming up to answer the question.

Thank you, Admiral. So the question is, where does the wreck lie in relation to the Titanic? I didn't hear the Admiral's answer, I think, 1,600 feet. Was that correct, Admiral? So that's off the bow of Titanic. It's in an area where there is not any debris of Titanic. It is a smooth bottom. There, to my knowledge, and anything I've, I've seen there's no Titanic wreckage in that area and again 200 plus meters from the bow and consistent with the location of last communication for an implosion in the water column and the size of the debris field is consistent with that implosion in the water column

so the question was about the timing of the catastrophic implosion right now it is too early to tell with that we know that as we've been prosecuting this search over the course of the last 72 hours and beyond, that we've had sonar buoys in the water nearly continuously and have not detected any catastrophic events when those sonar buoys have been in the water. So we describe what happens from here, sir? So we will, that question was what happens from here? What happens from here? what's the next phase? And so right now, again, our thoughts are with the families and making sure that they have an understanding

as best as we can provide of what happened and begin to find some closure. In terms of the large process, we're gonna continue to investigate the site of the debris field. And then I know that there's also a lot of questions about how, why, and when did this happen. And so, you know, those are questions that we will collect as much information as we can on now

while the governments are meeting and discussing discussing, you know, what an investigation of this nature of a casualty might look like. This is something that happened, I'll just remind everybody, this is something that happened in a remote portion of the ocean with people from, you know, several different countries around the world. And so it is a complex case to work through. But I'm confident that those questions will begin to get answered. The question was, was there any suggestion that time factors may have played a role or a consideration in the casualty here? And so the debris field is consistent with a catastrophic implosion of.

the vessel. Again, while we were prosecuting the search, we had listening devices in the water throughout and did not hear any signs of catastrophic failure from those. And so we're going to continue to investigate or we're going to continue to document the information there and understand based on all the information we have the timeline. So the question was what are the resources required for the investigation and which ships will be pulling out and staying in? And so it's too early for me to talk about an investigation. That's a decision that's going to be taken outside of the search and efforts that I was leading. But we do have a number of vessels.

We have nine vessels on the scene right now. We had medical personnel on scene. We had other technicians on scene. And so we will begin to demobilize personnel and vessels from the scene over the course of the next 24 hours. But we're going to continue remote operations on the seafloor. And I don't have a timeline for when we would intend to stop remote operations on the sea floor at this point. Yeah, the question was essentially about,

do you think that there should be changes in safety ratings or inspection for these standards? I know that there's a lot of questions about why, how, when this happened, and the members of the Unified Command have those questions, too, as professionals and experts that work in this environment. And this is an incredibly difficult and dangerous environment to work in out there. But those questions about the regulations that apply and the standards, that's going to be, I'm sure, focus of future review. Right now, we're focused on documenting the scene and continuing the subfold. So throughout the search efforts, we reacted to the information that we had

available to us and while we continue to send it off for deeper analysis. Again, really complex operating environment for us to work in. Let me check with the experts, but there doesn't appear to be any connection between the noises and the location on the sea floor. Again, this was a catastrophic implosion of the vessel, which would have generated a significant broadband sound down there that the sonoboies would have picked up. This would be the last question. This was an incredibly complex.

operation and we were able to mobilize an immense amount of gear to the site in just a really remarkable amount of time given the fact that we started without any sort of vessel response plan for this or any sort of pre-stage resources and so the equipment that was brought on site this morning that we were using was a pelagic ROV capable of operating at 6,000 meters, cameras, sonar, other articulating arms and resources on it. And it's, you know, we had to transport it here through C-17 aircraft. This is two aircraft that it took to get this up here. And so we've really had the right gear on site and worked as swiftly as possible to bring.

all of the capabilities that we had to bear to this search and rescue effort. And it was just a huge international and interagency effort to make this happen. So I'm really grateful for all of the responders that came out to support this and really search for the vessel. It is a difficult day for all of us. for all of us. And it's especially difficult for the families, and our thoughts are with the families today.

But this was an immense support, and we had the right gear on the bottom to find it. So thank you. Well, that was the breaking news, the press conference there from the U.S. Coast Guard. We're just listening to Mayor-Aremor John Morga, he's the commander of the U.S. Coast Guard there. expressing his deep sadness over what had happened

and confirming the very sad news that the five people on board the Titans submersible have all perished in this tragedy. Stockton Ross, Shazada Darwin, his son, Suleiman Darwin, Hamish Harding, of course, the British billionaire, and Paul Henri Narjolet. They're all now confirmed to have died.

And it appears that the Titan suffered a catastrophic implosion due to the loss of pressure in the chamber and fragmented. It seems about 1,600 feet away from the wreckage of the Titanic. So some way down towards the wreckage, but not actually there itself. But some very powerful words there from the rear admiral saying, these men, well, this is first of all a statement from Ocean Gate, who had a company, of course, who put on this trip and owned the Titan. We now believe that I see Stockton Rush and the others on board have sadly been lost.

These men were true explorers who shared a distinct spirit of adventure and deep passion for exploring and protecting the world's oceans. Our hearts are with these five souls and every member of their families during this tragic time. We grieve the loss of life and joy. They brought to everyone they knew. This is an extremely sad time for our dedicated employees who are exhausted in grievous. deeply over this loss. So what we know now is the site of the fatal accident was 1,600 feet, so 487 meters off the bow of the Titanic wreck. The authorities found five major pieces of

of debris. These apparently included a nose cone, the front end of the pressure hull and the back end of the pressure hull. This is confirmed by Paul Hankins, a salvage expert for the US Navy. he said that these pieces indicated there had been a catastrophic event of an implosion, so it had imploded rather than exploded. All families were immediately notified. This was discovered, this debris around half-bust-two, three o'clock UK time. And he said that the chances of recovering the bodies, according to real Admiral Morga, is very slim because it's an incredibly unforgiving environment.

So it's not been ruled out, but clearly from what he said there, it has to be unlikely. He said it's too hard to tell exactly when the implosion had taken place. But they do know now for sure that there was a catastrophic implosion that sadly killed everybody on board. Well, I'm joined now, rejoined, in fact, by a guest I had last night, Fred Hagen, who was on board the last two Titan missions. And those two of the people on board, Stockton Rush and Paul Henry Nagellet. Well, Fred, I'm really sad to speak to you again now that we know the news, which I think we both probably feared yesterday, we didn't want to say that very sadly everyone on board has lost their lives. What is your reaction to what we just heard? Well, there is, as you can imagine, sitting here listening to this press conference while waiting to talk to you has made this much more difficult than I anticipated.

And I can only say that the world has lost two radiant points of life of light with Stockton and Ph. And as we talked yesterday, these men were great men who tried greatly and risked everything. And I want their epitaph to be what Teddy Roosevelt said, The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, and who strives value in the errors who come short again and again, because there is no effort without our own shortcoming, but who does actually strive to do the deeds, who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause, who at the best knows in the end a triumph of high achievement. Excuse me. And who at the worst? If he fails, at least fails while daring greatly. So this place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat.

And that, to me, is the true epitaph. Stompton Rush and P.H.N.R.Jolet and their companions. And I'm very sorry. I just, it was just devastating sitting here listening to the realization of what we all fear. and then trying to express my feelings moments later, I apologize. Fred, there's no apology obviously needed at all. I know from our conversation yesterday, how personally moved you've been by this.

The rest of the world has watched on in sort of mounting horror as this story has unraveled. For you, it was incredibly personal. You've been on this vessel. You've been on the last two Titanic missions in 2021 and 22 with Stockton Rush, with your friend, PH. He'd been down to that wreckage 30-odd times, I think,

and brought back so many extraordinary things for the world to see. It was a genuine historian in that sense. We're looking at a picture of you all now. It's a desperately sad time for you and for everyone who knew them, their friends, their families, everyone. And it's a sad time, I think, for the world to look on and see people who ultimately,

as I said yesterday, I got very angry about the reaction. from certain people about the fact that they were wealthy people paying to go down there and so on. To me, they were intrepid explorers. It doesn't matter how much money you have. They're intrepid explorers, and some are paid to be there, and some were being paid to be there. Makes the difference that the goal was to go down and find new information, which could shed light on one of the great tragedies of the history of this planet, which was the sinking of the Titanic.

And I commend them for the courage that it took to do that. And I think that their death is an absolute tragedy. But they should be remembered as heroes who went down there. I wouldn't go down there. I mean, I admire you for doing it. It's an extraordinary thing to want to do. And peers, I'd like to say that right now at this point in time, the death toll from the Titanic tragedy has risen from 1,500.

to 1522 and may God rest their souls. Yeah. I mean, it is an eerie thing, isn't it, when you think about the Titanic and the huge death loss, as you say, and the fact they were going down there to see there and have now lost their lives. It was a very poignant interview, actually, with the older sister of Shazada Darwin, who said she felt absolutely heartbroken

that both her brother and, of course, her nephews, only 19, is a student at Strathclyde University. And this is Asma Darwood, who was the aunt of that young boy and the sister of his father on board as well. I feel like I've been called in a really bad film, she said, with a countdown. But you didn't know what you're counting down to. I've personally found it incredibly difficult to breathe thinking of them. She then said that her nephew didn't want to go on the submersible, but agreed to take part because it was important to his father, a lifelong Titanic obsessive. the Suleiman, she said, wasn't very up for it and was terrified, explaining the 19-year-old had expressed

his concerns from the family member. But that is, of course, part of, I guess, the adventure. And yes, it's ended in appalling circumstances. It's cost that young man his life. But his father, obviously, was enthralled by the history of this and wanted to be part of that history and to go down there and to explore. And again, I say, I think it's a heroic and noble thing to do that kind of thing. Most people don't get the chance to do it and don't have the inclination to do it. Most people live lives of quiet desperation, and these men live large. They've realized their dreams. They pursued them, and they should be celebrated.

It's been revealed by the Coast Guard, but it doesn't appear to be any connection between the underwater banging noises that were identified yesterday coming every 30 minutes and the location of where this debris was found. And so they seem to be saying it doesn't appear to be any connection there. Does that suggest to you, Fred, that this catastrophic implosion may have happened quite quickly after they went down? What would be your reading of this? Well, clearly it happened very quickly. I was originally critical of the fact that those in command did not allow the Brits to immediately mobilize the Magellan. And obviously that was because they'd heard a seismic event.

and they interpreted it as a catastrophic failure. And then those noises were heard and there was a change of heart. The French came last night. They showed up on site for their beloved pH. And, you know, I believe that the Magellan was finally mobilized. And that was as a result of hearing those knocking noises. But yes, at this point, clearly there was a catastrophic failure on the dissent. And while we're all devastated by the loss of these wonderful human beings,

At the same time, there is another little part of me that is relieved that they have not spent the last several days dying slowly in the most horrific, nightmarous condition. Yes, I think that's absolutely right. From what I've read, when this kind of implosion occurs, it literally takes milliseconds and nobody on board would even be aware of it. It is catastrophic and instant. That is correct. and at least they were spared any suffering. And that is some solace to PH's daughter and to the families, to Stockton's widow, Wendy, and to all the others.

I didn't know the other passengers, but it is a small solace. You know, you talk about PH, this extraordinary man. He served in the French Navy for 25 years. He was known as Titanic's greatest explorer. According to his biography, he was wide. considered the leading authority on the Titanic shipwreck. What was he like as a man, Fred? Well, you would never have known that he was the preeminent,

deep diving expert on Earth. He was a consummate professional, but you would sit down with him and he would be just as warm and relaxed as your oldest friend. And as someone else said, whether he was just as comfortable in the deck of a ship than a tornado, tornado as he was sitting in a Parisian cafe. I mean, that was very true. And that was pH.

He was very down to earth. He was both incredibly accomplished and incredibly humble. You've been on this. You've been on the same missions. Did you have moments, Fred, were you felt unnerved, scared even? I mean, how intimidating is the experience of doing this kind of journey? It can be very intimidating. PH would always be calm.

And there are some people that are just calm under stress. And I'd like to think of one of them. There were a few moments when we got kind of the currents pulled us into the ship and we were momentarily entangled. And I know that others on the sub were maybe more on nerve and they wanted to immediately ascend. For my part, you know, I always wanted, I wanted to see the stern and one of the experiences I had last year's we went all around the bow and explored it. And I wanted to go to the stern on the same day. I wanted to be the first person to see both pieces on the same day.

And we tried. And when we got back, Wendy and Stockton were both incredulous and saying, well, what earth were you doing? Why were you trying to get to the stern? and, of course, I was blamed for our perseverance. So I'm not sure if I answered your question or addressed it, but yes, there were moments, but they did not in any way diminish my appetite to experience the Titanic and experience this wonderful adventure with P.H.

Narsia Leigh, and I'll always treasure that event and I'll always treasure his friendship. We have a statement just in from the British Foreign Secretary, James Cleverly, tragic news that those on the tight and submersible, including three British citizens, have been lost following an international search operation. The UK government is closely supporting the families affected and expresses our deepest condolences. Stockton Rush, inevitably, I guess, as the CEO and founder of Ocean Gate, he's come under, in the last few days, a lot of criticism along with the company, for maybe cutting corners

and not doing enough to make the Titan properly secure for this kind of mission. You know, I don't think we should labour that point now that he's so sadly lost his life. But what is your response, Fred, to that particular criticism that it wasn't really ready to do this kind of thing? The only criminal act was the failure of governments to properly fund science and deep water exploration. What Stockman did was to pursue cutting-edge technology to take human beings into a realm where they've never gone before. You know, you've had previously you had government funded submersibles, maybe that whole one or two people that have gone that deep. You've never had anyone tried to democratize the depths, trying to take humanity where it never

belonged, it was never able to access. And I look at it kind of like. like the original flyers, as I mentioned previously, the Wright brothers took off and left the surly bonds of Earth. Do you know how many people died trying to make aviation safe and where anybody could participate safely? They died by the hundreds, by the scores, and they gave their lives trying to stretch the envelope to exceed expectations to go further and farther and faster. And Stockton was doing that. He was doing it in the depths of the ocean, which is the great frontier on earth, the last unexplored region of Earth, which is so critical to our own future and critical to the preservation of life on Earth. And, hey, Ms. Hahn.

I'll just, I'll just add, I'm sorry, Pierce. I'll just add that a lot of the criticism that's mounting up, I mean, I hear things, I've heard, I can't tell how many times I've heard about the joystick. It's a video game joystick. And it's like, that's funny. And people laugh and they make fun of it. Well, that's the difference between a government-funded project and a brilliant entrepreneur who is trying to push boundaries. The government would have spent tens of millions of dollars designing a joystick that would have worked perfectly and brilliantly.

Stockton Rush was able to find a joystick that worked just as efficiently by using a video game controller. And one thing I know, beyond any doubt, is whatever happened to that submersible, it had nothing to do with the video game controller. Fred, I'm so sorry that this has ended the way it has for your two great friends. It's a very sad day, I think, for everyone who's ever been down on that expedition to the Titanic and to lose people who's so experienced, so attached to that. It must be a huge loss to you, both professionally, I guess, and also obviously personally. And I really appreciate you joining me so soon after that news was broken. Thank you, peers, and I'll say again, thank you so much for your ad.

attitude and for your gracious handling of this tragedy, I deeply, deeply appreciated. And I know the family does too. Well, thank you, Fred. And I mean it. I'm sincere about that. I think these people are heroic when they do this kind of thing. And to attack them, attack them because of how much money they may have is completely missing the point to me.

Fred Hagan, thank you very much indeed. Thank you. Well, just to recap for viewers who are tuning in, the very sad, breaking news, that the Titan submersible, which had been missing for three days, down near the wreckage of the Titanic, sadly, it's now transpired, suffered a catastrophic implosion. We don't know exactly when that happened. But debris from the vessel was discovered at about 2.30 p.m.

UK time this afternoon, just before 9 a.m. Eastern Time in America. they discovered a series of items from the debris which were identifiable as coming from the Titan, including a nose cone, the front end of the pressure hull, the back end of the pressure hull, which made it clear this was indeed the missing vessel. And very sadly, that also meant that all five of the people on board had lost their lives.

So a very sad end to a story which has gripped the world. I'm joined now by someone who knows all about the perils of the ocean, Rob O'Neill, the former Navy SEAL, who was on many missions, including, of course, he was the man who shot and killed Osama bin Laden. Rob, great to speak to you. What was your reaction when you first heard about what had happened here? My initial reaction to this was because there was no last, like serious communications where they said, hey, we might have a minor issue, we're going to try this. There was an incident in 1963 with the USS Thresher in April of 63, where they were.

were doing test dive to certain depths. And there's a design depth and a crushed depth. And they were testing it. And one of the things I said, they were experiencing a leak and they said, hey, we're going to try this on the phone that works in the water. And then the next communication was, you can hear the metal clinking, meaning they were getting, they got crushed. And the only good thing, if it's not good, but the only relief is that it happened so

fast at those depths that you never know that it happened. But with this, it wasn't, I would hope it wasn't just a matter of it's either this or nothing. There's going to be a release of a buoy with some sort of transponder that can, that can pick you up or find you, and there's going to be communications. They just, they stopped communicating, which means they got to a certain depth and then it just crushed them, which, you know, it's, this is, it's not a good situation no matter what, but if you're going to die doing something you love, something, just exploring the way they were, which is how we get great inventions, I personally would rather repeat to get.

get crushed that quickly than to sit on the bottom and either run out of air or freeze to death. So, I mean, of all the worst case scenarios, that was the best worst case. And, you know, these five people, you can read all the crap on the internet. They're doing something that this is, these are innovators. This is how we get the good stuff. People like this do things like that, like the Wright brothers, just to explore different places. Like, we know more about space than we do about the bottom of our own oceans.

So, I mean, to me, these are trailblazers. And it's a tough dad. I normally peers like to talk to you under different circumstances. This is tough. It's nice that there's closure. It's nice that we don't wonder if they're out there suffering on the surface or down at the sub-surface. But, you know, it's a tough day. It's a very tough day.

And you, more than most people, understand the inherent danger of the ocean, as well as the excitement and the fun. It's dangerous, isn't it? And particularly when you're diving at great depth or going down in a vessel a great depth. Even if you're not diving. great depths. There's so much science, there's so much physics and medicine that comes into going subsurface because every 33 feet is one atmosphere of pressure. And you're dealing with everything like Boyle's Law, how pressure and volume, they're different. And the further you go down breathing compressed gases, you can't come up too fast because you're dealing with all this stuff.

The lowest I've ever been underwater while I was scuba diving was 150 feet, which is a 15-story building. That is dark down there and it's scary down there. And the more you get into Mother Ocean, the more you realize that, yes, she takes care of the planet, but she's unforgiving. And, you know, just like a bullet, the ocean needs to be right one time. And that's all it takes. You need to have respect for the ocean. I love the ocean. The ocean is the reason we are who we are.

And there's all, you know, but it's everything from just, you know, when you dip your toe in the ocean, you're now at the bottom of the food chain. There are predators in the ocean. There's dangers in the ocean. There's science in the ocean. There's dark and there's cold. Which tells you about these five explorers. They were willing to... And they signed the waiver saying we're willing to do this.

And that, to me, is just... I think it'd be hard to put your signature on that line. And they had the guts to do that, let alone get in the sub and go down. So, I mean, my hat's off to them. Yeah, I completely agree. I think there were three warnings that you could die doing this, and they still all went down there having signed those waivers.

And that takes incredible courage, whatever people think of it. And I think they are heroic for doing it. Rob, as always, it's great to talk to you. I wish it had been a happier ending to this story. It's a very sad day for anyone who's ever been involved in oceanography, and particularly, of course, history of the Titanic and everything that goes with that. So thank you very much. Anytime. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it.

Well, Josh Gates, the host of Expedition Unknown, joins me now. Josh, thank you very much indeed for joining me. You actually walked away from an opportunity to film the Titanic down where it lurks in the ocean. Why was that? Well, we were thinking about doing a special on Titanic and to work alongside Stockton and Ocean Gate, and we went up to the Ocean Gate headquarters in Everett, Washington in 2021. So this was just a few months before Ocean Gate was set to take its first group of passengers down to the Titanic. And we spent a few days up there, and we went out on Titan in Puget Sound and took it out for what was effectively a shakedown dive,

getting it ready for those operations in the North Atlantic. And by the end of my time there, and I had a real, you know, terrific time working with Stockton, I'm absolutely kind of just beside myself here listening to all this, just kind of taking it in in real time. It's just a lot to process. But by the end of that experience, I just did not feel that this was for me. I really felt more than anything that it was nearly impossible to measure the risk of Titan as a platform. It was just almost impossible to measure it against anything else. It is such a unique vehicle.

It is a one-off. You know, there's nothing else like it. And because of that, there's nothing to compare it to. And for me, it represented, frankly, just too much risk. And it just wasn't for me in the end. Do you feel there but for the grace of God about this? Yeah. I mean, it's, yeah, you know, I knew Stockton.

And again, I really am just stunned sitting here about this news. I knew Hamish Harding as well, who's a fellow member of the Explores Club an incredible individual, a big figure, both inside and outside the club. And yeah, I mean, I'm beside myself. There's something, I just sit here listening to this news and remember my time in Titan. Remember going down. I spent probably two or three hours in the sub with Stockton taking it through its paces. And, you know, I think like everybody, I just prayed right up until that conference for a miracle,

for a positive outcome to all this. Titanic film director James Cameron, currently speaking to ABC News in America, has just said, I'm struck by the similarity of the Titanic disaster itself where the captain was repeatedly warned about ice ahead of his ship and yet he steamed at full speed into an ice field. Yeah.

I mean, listen, this is a really difficult moment, I think, for the families of these individuals. I don't share some of the viewpoints of the gentleman Fred who was on a few moments ago. What I do share is this really strong belief that the passengers aboard Titan were incredibly courageous individuals. You know, I've really been sickened by so much of the, especially on social media, so many people commenting, why would you do this? Why would you put your life at risk to go down there? And I have to say that, you know, look, Titanic has fascinated the world since the night that she sank. And it holds a deep personal meaning for many people.

in general, as someone who's visited many shipwrecks in my career, shipwrecks are time capsules. They connect us to the past in a really intimate way. And there are people, I mean, look at Ph. Narjali. His entire career had been devoted after his work in the Navy to studying Titanic and to being one of the world's foremost experts on this ship. This is something that held great meaning for these people. And so, you know, as someone who went in Titan and really didn't feel like I was comfortable going down to those depths in it, I have to.

say it takes an enormous amount of determination, of courage, of fortitude to take any trip inside a submersible titan or otherwise. And so I think there should be a huge amount of admiration for all those people. As for Stockton, I have to say, you know, I really, really admire his vision. I admire his spirit of innovation. I admire that he was a risk taker in some ways. I do think there are still really important questions to ask, not today, but soon, about his calculations of risk and acceptable risk. And again, I don't think that's something for today. But I do think that he was an innovator. He was someone who was trying to create a new platform that could open up the depths of the ocean to more people.

I think that is a commendable, noble aim. I think there are big questions about how he got there. and I think that there'll be a time for that. But as for today, I just remain so heartbroken for the families of these people and for the passengers, all of them, because I do think as an explorer, as a guy who understands people's passions

for things like this, it was an admirable goal to go down there. And Hamish Harding, an extraordinary guy, is a British billionaire, 58 years old. He's chairman of a Dubai-based private plane firm, action aviation, but he holds three Guinness World Records, including the longest duration of full ocean depth by a crude vessel when he, in March 2021, and Ocean Explorer Victor Viscovo,

dived to the lowest part of the Mariana Trench. He was also mission director and crew pilot for the flight mission one more orbit, which set the current world speed record for the fastest circumnavigation of Earth by aircraft over both geographic poles. I mean, a quite extraordinary adventurer, and explorer. And, you know, are there many people who are billionaires who would risk everything to go down to the bottom of the ocean to see the wreck of the Titanic? I doubt it. And there are something Richard Branson is one that springs to mind who has done that kind of thing. But there

aren't many. Most of them banked their cash and sit somewhere, you know, surrounded by comfort and security. This guy risked his life. And yes, he lost his life doing it. But he was in his bones, an explorer, an adventurer, a risk taker. Probably made him the success he was. And I think that that's why I totally concur with you that when people ask, why do they do this? Well, why does anyone do anything out of the ordinary? Why does anyone go exploring? There are people who climb K2. Right. I'm not going to climb K2. That's not for me. But I wouldn't say that someone was crazy to do it because whether it's mountaineering, whether it's deep sea exploration, whether it's you know, anything.

If it holds great personal meaning to you, then it's something that's admirable for you to do. And so I think these people were incredibly brave. Josh, I really appreciate you joining me. Thank you very much indeed. Thank you, Pierce. Well, just to recap again, the sad breaking news that the Titan submersible,

that vessel that had gone down at the weekend to the wreckage of the Titanic, has now been confirmed to have suffered a cancer. catastrophic implosion that instantly, believed instantly killed all five passengers on board. So an extremely sad end to a story that has really gripped the world in the last few days. And they died, as we were just discussing, really in heroic way. You know, on an adventure of a lifetime, an extraordinarily intrepid and risky adventure. They signed these waivers that they knew meant they could be.

going down to their death, and that's how this has transpired. But I suspect they would have no regrets for having tried, and that is the very nature of explorers and adventurers. But a sad end to what has happened. And yes, there will be questions asked. Of course there will about how safe this vessel was. One of the people who was the founder of the company that made it, Stockton Rush, he's died in this.

And there will be serious questions. to be asked about whether it was really worthy as a vessel to get that far down in the ocean. Very few vessels are where the US military have submarines that cost $2 billion to go anywhere near that kind of depth. So that will be part, I'm sure, of a big investigation into this. But let's not let the Twitter trolls who in the last few days have been mocking and taunting these people, not even knowing if they're alive or dead, claiming that because they have money, some of them. Somehow their lives are less worthy

and that we should be focused on that rather than what they were actually trying to do. I'm joined now by the former submarine commander, Don Walsh, and by William Conan, who wrote a letter in 2018, raising concerns about the safety of the Titan subs. So William Conan, let me come to you first. We spoke about this yesterday about this letter warning about issues with the Titan submersible. Did people in the industry of submersibles believe that this was a disaster waiting to happen?

Well, look, thanks, peers, for inviting me again. This is really hard, you know, looking at all this and listening to the Coast Guard, trying to find the feeling. But I think while you were speaking, I think heartbroken was one of the word that comes to mind. You know, because we lose a colleague in this industry. we know each other well. Look, from the beginning, we all felt as experts in industry that this was extremely challenging to put in context,

going 4,000 meters with five people requires a very large submersible. And first of all, going to 4,000 meters is difficult, going with five people. space is difficult. You remember when Jim Cameron went, right? He made himself a fairly small cabin. He learned how to sit in a crouch position for a long time because the smaller you make it, the stronger you are.

Space is a luxury at these deep depths. And so it was our realization that you're taking on a very challenging issue that while we have been going down to six thousand, and seven thousand meters, having something as large as for five people is a big, is a big climb right there. Yeah. Yeah. Let me bring in Don Walsh, a legendary oceanographer, Don, one of the first men to reach the deepest point in the ocean, the Mariana Trench in 1960. You're one of the first to reach that site. You're a former submarine commander. What is your reaction to what's happened? Well, it's indeed tragic, but frankly, it was predictable. As Will Conan will tell you, those of us have been in this field, and I've been in it for six decades, we're concerned about some of the engineering and operational approaches that Ocean Gate was taking

towards developing building the submarine. Now, there's nothing wrong with you building experimental things. It's entirely on your own risk. But were you taking members of the public along with you, then it suddenly becomes a concern to many regulatory authorities. Now, half century ago, we established this community established regulations for the design, construction, and maintenance of man submersibles. And these were done by the so-called classification societies such as Lloyd's Register in the UK and American Ferris shipping, U.S. and so on. And these, we often say most regulations or rules are written in blood because we learn from accidents and such what we should not have done and things that we did not anticipate. So for a half century, we've had these rules and regulations, but Ocean Gate essentially decided not to follow this type of guidance.

So those of us in the deep submerge community, led by Will Conan, wrote Dr. Russia a letter expressing our concerns and hoping that he would do more testing and so on because the whole structure was unproved. There are several other parts of the sub that really needed more testing. So, you know, I hate to be a wet blanket, but, you know, that's the truth of it. I've been, you know, it was the first submersible pilot in U.S. Navy and probably the second one in the United States. I've piloted a lot of submarines in the last 55 years. So you have to say the truth. And it's something that's uncomfortable. But I think a lot of us felt it was not yet but when.

I mean, Don, there's a quote from James Cameron, the Titanic movie director you referenced earlier, who's just told ABC, I'm struck by the similarity of the Titanic disaster itself where the captain was repeatedly warned about ice ahead of his ship, and yet he steamed at full speed into an ice field. Do you think that's a fair analogy? I do, and I was with Jim on one Titanic expedition,

and by the way, I've made a dive to Titanic also back in 2005. Then I was on his expedition when he was the second man, well, the third man to dive to the day. deepest place in the ocean, challenge or deep. So I understand what he's getting at. And yeah, I do support that. I mean, there's certain things that, as I just said, it's not the question of if but when.

And again, it's regrettable that members of the public were exposed perhaps to risk too early. Don Walsh, thank you very much indeed for joining me and William Cohnan. And thank you very much indeed for joining me again. I appreciate it. Thank you. Well, again, to bring you up to speed with the breaking news,

which is that the Titan submersible, this vessel, which has gripped the attention of the world in the last few days, very sadly, has been confirmed, suffered a catastrophic implosion about 1,600 feet away from the wreck of the Titanic. We don't know when it happened. It could have happened pretty soon after they went down there on Saturday. Nobody knows yet, but we do know that about 2.33 o'clock this afternoon, UK time, just before 9 o'clock Eastern time in America this morning,

debris was discovered, which gave clear indication it had come from the Titan submersible and the US Coast Guard. Just before we came on air today, started a press conference in which they confirmed that, very sadly, everybody on board had lost those lives. And we should just remind ourselves, I think, about the human beings. here who have died. One was the CEO of the company that put on the trip, Stockton Rush, and then there was a father and son duo Shazada Darwood and his son, Suleiman, Darwin. And Silliman was 19 years old, a student at Strathclyde University in Scotland.

And there was a British billionaire, Hamish Harding, 58, who has three Guinness World Records for his exploration and daredevil feats. over the years, a man who loved adventure and exploring and trying new things and loved his history. And Paul Omri Najale, who was known as Mr. Titanic, he'd been down more than 30 times to the wreck. He'd brought back a huge amount of artifacts, including chandeliers and so on from the wreckage itself, which he gave to the world to know more about that, of course, that moment when the Titanic sank and became one of the biggest stories of the history of planet Earth. These people shared a love of exploring and adventure.

And I think that there will be an investigation to what happened, but we should just salute their courage in actually daring to do this. And I do that. more live coverage of this breaking story will continue now with Rosanna Lockwood on Talk TV for the next few hours. Stay with us, but that's it from me on Miss Sad Day.

Good night.