Piers Morgan Uncensored - Piers Morgan Uncensored: Boris Johnson Inquiry, Trump Hush Money, Where does Harry go Next?

Episode Date: March 22, 2023

On tonight's episode of Piers Morgan Uncensored, Piers debates on the fallout from the Boris Johnson partygate inquiry. Piers delves into Donald Trump allegedly paying Stormy Daniels hush money. Piers looks into Britain not wanting Prince Harry back and where would he actually go? Watch Piers Morgan Uncensored at 8 pm on TalkTV on Sky 522, Virgin Media 606, Freeview 237 and Freesat 217. Listen on DAB+ and the app.  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Tonight on Piersbork, and I sense the two blonde bombshells bunker down to fight for their political lives. Boris Johnson insists he didn't lie to MPs over lockdown parties that broke his own laws. But as his own loyalists skewer him on live TV, is Teflon Boris finally done? We'll debate. Meanwhile in America, former President Donald Trump sensation he faces criminal indictment over hush money he paid to the porn star Stormy Daniels. So is Teflon Don also toast? I'll ask his top advisor, Kelly Ann Conway. And that other favourite of his show, Prince Harry's US visa, is under scrutiny off. We boasted about drug use in America in his memoir and TV interviews.

But Britain doesn't want him back, so where will he go? We'll discuss that. Live from London, this is Pearz Morgan Unsensored. Well, good evening. Welcome to Pierce Morgan Unsensored. I'm back, flew in this morning from America. More of that later in the program. Donald Trump and Boris Johnson a lot in common.

They're both populist leaders with shocking blonde hairdos who were big on bravado and famously economical with the truth. They both command cult-like devotion from their loyalists and blame shadowy elitist's plots for self-inflicted chaos. And tonight they're both fighting for their political lives. Donald Trump faces criminal charges over hush money payments to the porn star Stormy Daniels. Next week, America is braced for chaos

and with the unprecedented spectacle of a former president hauled in for fingerprinting, and yes, a mugshot. Today on the UK be the unprecedented spectacle of a former British Prime Minister defending the indefensible and a televised showdown with the privileges committee. We'll read out the terms of the oath. Yes, I swear by Almighty God that the evidence I shall give for this committee should be the truth, the whole truth,

and nothing but the truth, so help me God. Well, that will certainly make a change, weren't it, Boris? But it was an extraordinary spectacle today and let's be honest, he's finally come clean about misleading MPs over Downing Street parties, which broke the lockdown laws he imposed on the country he led. But it's shamefully took him six months to do that,

and in vintage Boris style, and he traces of contrition were eclipsed by a volley of feeble excuses which laid the blame squarely, of course, on everybody other than him. I want to dispute the idea that it was not an essential gathering or not a gathering that was reasonably necessary

for work purposes. People who say that we were partying in lockdown simply do not know what they are talking about. People who say that that event was a purely social gathering are quite wrong. My purpose there was to thank staff to motivate them in what had been a very difficult time. Really, really, Boris, you want us to swallow that one? Attending boozy parties, dozens of you on occasions? while the rest of the country was abiding by the strict rules you'd all made, that people couldn't even go and see dying relatives in hospital

while you lot were all toasting each other and having farewell parties. Even Boris's own most strident supporters aren't buying it anymore. You can't expect human beings in an environment like number 10 to have, as it were, a... invisible electrified fence around them, they will occasionally drift into each other's orbit, that I knew, from my direct personal experience, that we were doing a huge amount to stop the spread of COVID within the building. I'm bound to say that if you'd said all that at the time to the House of Commons, we probably wouldn't be sitting here, but you did. Well, quiet.

Boris blustered through several hours of evidence today following the release of a 52-page dodgy dossier, a trademark dithering and deception, which is heavy on excuses, light on plausible explanation. He whines that he was photographed toasting colleagues at a birthday, but that nobody sang happy birthday or served him a cake. He blames his advisor, Dominic Cummings, for smearing him.

He blames the small size of his home and office at Downing Street for forcing people to work in close proximity. No word on why they needed to be in close proximity to suitcases of wine. He blames the police for not clarifying which rules he'd broken, even though he literally set the rules for everybody else to follow.

There's 15,000 words in this supposedly named clearing dossier, but the two words, I'm sorry, weren't among them, despite being the only ones and British people, frankly, want to hear. And the only person Boris hasn't blamed is the one person who's really responsible for all this, and that's the boss,

which was him. Well, joining me now, I've talked to you with these political editors of Kate McCann. Kate, I watched a lot of this today. I didn't really want to, because I'm just hearing his voice, frankly. It's like the ghost of Christmas past braying away.

But I did. And what was really striking to me was that he seemed to be living, I felt, in a completely delusional world where he wanted people to believe that there was no partying and suddenly nothing he was partied to, despite the fact that over 80 members of the staff

in Downing Street got fined by the police for illicit partying. Yeah, and I think, look, Boris Johnson, it was really clear from that evidence session today, is, as you say, that he has convinced himself that no rules were broken. In fact, he said, you know, till my dying day, I will believe it was the right thing to do to go to those leaving parties or those leaving events of colleagues during COVID. And he justified that by saying that morale was very low, that people were, you know, in the building they were starting to struggle

to do their jobs. And I think the problem is the strength of feeling among those in different careers, among nurses, among doctors, among people who worked in carehouse. who will have been shouting at the television today if they were watching to say, but we felt like that too, and we were not allowed to have drinks. We were not allowed to encourage each other to keep going. I think what was really clear from that hearing today was that the former prime minister believes that he did nothing wrong. He believes that he can justify every decision that he made.

But crucially, the committee did not push him on why alcohol was present at some of those events. They did not push him about what happened after he left. Repeatedly, Boris Johnson said, when I was there were only 10 people. When I was there, we were outside. But actually, what we know now is that after he left some of those events, things happened that were not within the rules or the guidance that could not be easily justified. And I think the most tense moments for Boris Johnson today were when he was pressed on what advisors had told him, whether or not they had reassured him that guidance was followed at all times.

And crucially, when he was asked, well, what mitigating factors did you put in place if you couldn't follow so. social distancing rules. And he came up with, well, we didn't touch each other's pens. And I think you could tell from Harriet Harmon, who was leading that committee today when she said, well, you did pour drinks for each other, didn't you? Because we could see it in the photos. You could really feel that the anger and the tension in that room. Boris Johnson believes he did everything that he could to keep those things within the guidance. While he was there, I'm not sure that he could say the same when he wasn't. No, it's a complete hogwash. And to use a phrase like, I will take it till I die,

this belief when people were literally dying in their droves and he ordered families not to be at deathbeds, made it a criminal offence. You know, I know lots of people who lost people or people like Kate Garrow, I work with a Good Morning Britain whose husband remains in a virtual coma. You know, I know other people said goodbye to their mothers on FaceTime and care homes.

And I just was trying to think, what must they all be thinking, listening to this? Because it wasn't just a one-off. This was party after party after party. And it's his house. It's where he was living. And the idea that someone as smart as Boris Johnson didn't know what was going on is utter hogwash.

Where does it go this? Okay, what's the ultimate sanction that's available to Parliament? What's the best and worst case scenario for Johnson? Well, where it goes from here, the committee can recall Boris Johnson if they feel like they have more questions. I think that's probably unlikely given that they didn't use all the time they had allocated to them today.

They could ask for more information from some of the advisors that were said to be giving him advice on whether all of the rules and regulations had been stuck to. They may well try and do that. They are going to publish some of the advice that they had from Sue Gray, some of the evidence they took from her, because Boris Johnson said at the start of the committee that he felt it was unfair that the public can't see everything

that he is relying on to justify his own position. So that's likely to be published. But Pears, the committee has to give Boris Johnson two weeks notice of their final report, which means that we will at least be two to three weeks away. And I think in reality, probably more like four, five or six weeks until we see a formal decision. You could hear from Harriet Harmon today, who said that Boris Johnson's evidence was flimsy from others. You played a clip there of Sir Bernard Jenkins, who was saying, if Boris Johnson had given the evidence he gave today in the beginning,

then maybe nobody would have been here. I think the tone from around the table was that they will probably find. that he did mislead the House of Commons. But whether the punishment will go to the full 10 days, if it's under 10 days, remember, that doesn't meet the threshold for a recall petition in his own seat. He could essentially get a wrap on the knuckles and continue.

Is this the end of his political career? Well, running concurrently today was that vote on the Stormont break. Boris Johnson, Pretty Patel, Liz Truss, all voted against, but they couldn't really muster the numbers to challenge Rishi Sunak. I think there is a feeling in Westminster that Boris Johnson, whatever happened today, is now spent as a political force.

Those who'd already made their mind up will still feel the same after that committee hearing. But peers, as you say, for many people listening today, they don't care about rules, they don't care about guidance. What they care about is that feeling that it just wasn't fair,

and I don't think they will have had their mind change today. Well, I think he's lying through his back teeth, and it's a further kick in Batiste to all the people that he ordered to do one thing while he did another. Kate McCann, thank you very much indeed. Well, joining me now as former advisor of Boris Johnson, Alex Crowley,

former Conservative MP Louise Mench, and by Dr Cathy Gardner, who took the UK government to court over his decision to discharge hospital patients into care homes at the start of the pandemic. Her father, Michael, died in a care home in April 2020. Let me start with you, Dr. Cathy. What did you make of Boris Johnson's performance today?

I wasn't surprised by his continual ability to just deny and pretend it had absolutely nothing to do with him. It's impossible for him to show contrition. really doesn't care about how it looked to the rest of us. All he's interested in is saving his own skin. Yeah, I mean, that's exactly what I think. I think this is all about his career and saving himself. But when he tries to make us believe that all these parties, party after party after party, that he had no understanding or even an inkling that any of it broke any rules when 82 people, I think it was, got fined by police for breaking the rules that he said. It's just,

I just think it's so ridiculous to expect us to believe this. It's completely incredible, absolutely impossible to believe it. And the fact that he thinks that we should is just insulting. It's insulting to the intelligence of the majority of the population. Yeah, I agree. Louise Mensch over in New York, I mean, you defend the indefensible Boris time and again. Is this testing even your patience?

I think he's very lucky, Piers, that you weren't sitting on that committee because I don't think they really landed a glove on him. What we've heard from your various guests so far is that it's clear that Boris Johnson himself believed that he wasn't breaking the rules. Now, you can say, well, he should have known better and maybe that's true, but the question before them isn't part again.

He admits that the rules were broken and he has said sorry for that. The point is, did he deliberately mislead the House of Commons? And I think he made a decent point when he said, if I knew the rules were being broken, would I have sent the number 10 photographer in to photograph it and then given it to the press in a briefing. That just doesn't make sense. And I think the fact is he lost his temper, he's going to be upset about that. And you're right,

basically, as he finished at the moment he is, but a week is a long time in politics. And if the conservatives do really badly in the May local elections coming up, that could change again. Boris Johnson is one of the great survivors. And I don't think this is the last that we're going to hear of him. He is. But, you know, in a way, you can almost feel the way the wind's blowing on this. And it's blowing, I think, much more favourably for Rishi Sunak. I think the budget went down very well. I think the Northern Ireland situation that he seems to have fixed massive vote win today. Boris, just a few straddle has left. Boris, Liz Trussman. If you're against them, you're not really caring. I think the style also of leadership that

Sunac is bringing. And Jeremy Hunt, actually, where it's a bit more serious. It feels like there are grownups in the room. There's no blatherer, there's no bluster. There's no sleazy-like behavior in the background. You put it all together and you think, is there really going to be an appetite for Boris with all the baggage? And it's the same situation in America with Trump. You know, are they actually, and it's a different set of circumstances, but similar kind of vibe. Do we want to go back to more of that, or are we wanting to move on to something a little bit more serious? Well, everything you say is true, peers, but to that I would add the very simple point, all of that may be true, but Rishi Sunak is losing. He is still losing. He is still

massively down in the polls. And one thing about the conservatives is that they are very self-interested. They believe they're the right people to run the country. If, after all this sensible thing, and it's good progress, and I agree with you about Northern Ireland, all of that's absolutely true. But if he continues to lose, you may very well see Boris Johnson come back as much as you hate that prospect. Let me give you a little statistic. I can't remember the exact numbers, but I think it's something like that Scare Starm has now been ahead of the Tories with his Labour Party for 400-odd days. Neil Kinnock back in 1992 had actually been ahead for over 500 days, I think, a lot longer, and was about the same rate ahead in the polls, 20-odd percent. And Kinnock thought he had it in

the bag and the old John Major came along and boom he nicked it by being steady John serious decent guy and actually they won and they were in a worst position the Tories at this stage before that 92 election I simply put that to you that's very true but that's very true but those of us who are old enough to remember that naming no names remember that Kinnock ran a really terrible election campaign And I don't think with the jeans, and he tried to portray himself, down with the kids and all the rest of it, it really wasn't very good. He had a disastrous rally that was covered everywhere

and made him look frankly stupid. I don't think Kirstama is going to make those same kind of mistakes. All right. Let me bring in Alex Craig. You said impatiently, Alex. You worked with Boris Johnson for nearly 10 years. Yeah, yeah. On or not.

And you worked at Downing Street with him. My question for you specifically about that, when you watched him today, is it plausible that he could kind of paint a picture of a busy Prime Minister running around and just being completely oblivious to all this? Is that actually plausible, given the way Downing Street operates? I recognise some of that. I absolutely take the point that there are certain things that he must have known about and he must have looked at and thought, this isn't a good look if nothing else. But if you think about the daily schedule of a Prime Minister, they have the same number of hours in the day that you and I have, but they have to have. to do about a hundred more things. They don't do as many hours as, you know,

probably the nurses and doctors in the middle of the pandemic. No, but it's a different schedule in the sense that, as a Prime Minister, you are literally shunted from thing to thing. You're in one meeting, then you leave that meeting and you go off and do something else.

And in the middle of two other things, someone will say to you, right, could you just go in in there, thank that person, then leave again? But here's the problem with this. I don't dispute that. I've been in Down Street many times, and I've seen how it works.

But I also know that if you're setting draconian rules for the country. You're literally stopping more than a handful of people attending funerals for loved ones who've died. You're stopping people doing all sorts of things. You're certainly stopping people in workplaces having leaving parties. And then you try and have a position, well, we're the special ones. You know, we were working to do all this stuff for the country.

So we're entitled to have a drink, entitled to have a leaving do, and not worry too much about social distancing, which was kind of what his position was today. I don't know the public are going to buy this because they're going to be thinking, well, hang on, why is it all right for you? Did the virus know that you're the special people? Did it give you a special pass? Yeah, no, look, and clearly he has paid the price for that. He lost office.

In fact, he didn't even need to be at this committee. He could have resigned as an MP after he was removed from Downing Street, and none of this would have needed to happen. He's chosen to stay, and he obviously believes that, A, he feels he should defend his position, and B, he obviously feels he has some political future because otherwise he wouldn't have stuck around in the House of Congress. Do you believe Boris Johnson?

I mean, he was sacked twice for lying, once as a journalist, once as a politician. His record on truth is not good. No, yeah. Do you believe him? I mean, there'll be lots of people out there both personally and professionally who would say, I wouldn't trust Boris Johnson as far as I could throw his mob. Yeah, and look, the record shows that there is some justification to that, right? You know, he spent his entire career getting away with things up until this point

when he couldn't get away with it any longer because he broke the fundamental rule in public life, which is that if you are a lawmaker, you cannot be a lawbreaker. What he should have done right at the beginning of this is he should have said, okay, this was a mistake, I'm putting a stop to this now, it should not have happened, it's wrong. If he had just done that, I think he probably still would be... But I don't understand why he didn't do that.

I mean, if you're going to be running the country in a pandemic, standing at a podium every day, and lecturing the public and giving them criminal fines for the most tiny breach of your own rules, and then you're just doing all this with total impunity. Why don't they need alcohol in down the street? Most of the people saving the country from a pandemic.

What were they doing having regular Friday night booze-ups? What were they doing? I mean, two parties on the night before Prince Phillips' funeral. All this stuff to me, the poor queen, I always come back to that image, the poor queen sitting on her own in that mask with none of the family around her at Phillips funeral because she thought it was the right thing to do.

Where was that conscience in the prime minister? The answer, it wasn't there. It should have been there. Actually, those parties you referred to, he wasn't even at. But you're right. He should have known... They're going on in down the street. Of course.

And look, his name's on the door, right? So he has to carry the can, not disputing that at all. But I do also think that we need to look at what the officials are doing as well, because there were a lot of people working in that building. Some of them were warning him about the optics of what was going on. And he wants us to gloss over that. But he was specifically warned the optics of this aren't good. But what about the rest of the...

of the officials who knew that that particular party on the night of the Duke of Edinburgh funeral was going on, what were they doing? I'm not saying that Boris is blameless, but there are a lot more people who are... That's true, but he was the Prime Minister. The buck stops with him. The question really is whether he should be allowed back

into any form of high office in this country. I just don't think he should. Anyway, thank you for coming in. Appreciate it. Thank you to Louise and thank you to Dr. Cathy Gardner. Appreciate all of you joining the show tonight. Coming next, find out what President Trump said about me today. after I sat down for an exclusive interview

with the man tipped to replace him. Big rival, the Florida governor, rising star of American politics, Ron DeSantis. Spoiler alert, President Trump wasn't very complimentary about it. Welcome back to, Pierce Morgan & Sessions. Donald Trump is fighting for his political life as he faces criminal indictment over hush money he paid to the porn star Stormy Daniels.

That's the allegation anyway, but that doesn't seem to be the only thing ruffling the former president's feathers. He wasn't overly impressed that I sat down with his current most formidable presidential rival, the wildly successful governor of Florida, Ron DeSantis. It's a whole show that will air tomorrow night

and it'll make riveting viewing, but not if you're Donald Trump. We'll make America great again. A group formed of his allies, released a statement earlier saying, Ron DeSantis is lashing out against President Trump, in my interview, because his poll numbers keep falling.

Unfortunately, for Desantis, sitting down for an interview to bash President Trump with gun-grabber, Piers Morgan, won't solve his issues with Republican voters. To be clear, I don't like grabbing guns. I don't actually like guns at all. It didn't stop there. Shortly later, to my lack of surprise, President Trump himself took to his social media platform to say,

while I am fighting against radical left lunatics, persecutors and unfair prosecutors who want to destroy us all, Ron the Sanctimonious is not working for the people of Florida, as he should be. He's too busy chatting with a ratings challenge TV hosts from England, desperately trying to rescue his failing campaign. But it's my fault. I put him there. I don't know if he's talking about Ronda San Domenius or me there at the end.

But in view of sitting down with me, President Trump, you seem to be suffering from some amnesia because you've sat down with me yourself about 40 times, including three times when you were president of United States. So it couldn't have been that bad. Anyway, I joined me now as a former senior councillor to President Trump from 2017 to 2020. Kelly Ann Conway. Kelly Ann, lovely to see you.

Hi, Pierre. Thanks for having me. I always think it's the high point of flattery if Donald Trump takes time from his busy day annihilating everybody else to launch a personal savage attack on me and thoroughly enjoyed it today, and it wasn't unexpected. But behind it, I'm curious what you think of what's going on here in terms of how he views Ronda Santis and how damaging, if at all, this whole legal thing in New York

is going to beat him, because it seems the more that people talk about it, the more his poll numbers seem to be improving. So first things first, on the DeSantis Trump question, I got to congratulate you for getting the governor to sit down and give a major interview and back to back. Then you had a former president, perhaps future president, make elevate you on social media. So you're having a really good week, Pierre's Morgan. In terms of DeSantis, I mean, I think President Trump has made very clear. He feels that Ron DeSantis should be more grateful to him for giving him his endorsement in the

primaries when DeSantis was famously at 3 percent, showing pictures of his infant and toddler children building walls and having a MAGA onesie on and everything, and then, of course, campaigning for him. And Ron DeSantis won the first time with less than 50% of the vote, very small margin. But what DeSantis has done in Florida since is pretty remarkable. He's been an excellent governor on many accounts. And I think Trump has DeSantis where he wants him right now. Trump's poll numbers are going up.

DeSantis is not a declared candidate. And even you, sitting down for an interview about Ronne's. to Santa's as governor of Florida, is forcing him to respond to Donald Trump. So I think all of these candidates are going to be asked. The most popular common question is going to be Trump. I think so far Senator Tim Scott handled the question the best. I watched him an interview when he was asked the legitimate question peers. So how are you different from Donald Trump on policy?

Where do you differ that way? We would think that you're also for an America First agenda. And Senator Scott said we probably differ very little. That's really the right answer. It was interesting, it's interesting because I do think, yeah, just on that point, I mean, I did ask DeSantis that question. Let's see what he said. Let's play the clip. People have been quite kind of scathing. They've said your house trained Donald, your diet Coke to his full Coke, right? You've heard all this stuff. What are the differences between you? I know what I know him very well. I'm having now spent time with you. I could immediately identify a few differences. But what do you think of the differences? Well, I mean, I think there's a few things. I mean, obviously, you know, the approach to Coke.

COVID was different. I mean, you know, I would have fired somebody like Fauci. I think that he got way too big for his britches, and I think he did a lot of damage. I also think just in terms of my approach to leadership, you know, I'd get personnel in the government who have the agenda of the people and share our agenda. If you bring your own agenda in, you're gone. We're just not going to have that. So the way we run the government, I think, is no daily drama, focus on the big picture, and put points on the board, and I think that that's something that's very important.

I thought that was an interesting response. It wasn't particularly about policy, although obviously COVID, he would argue that by being a much more free in the way he responded to it in Florida, it turned out to be a smart move. But on this question of how he runs government, there's no doubt, is it?

If Trump gets back into the White House, you were there last time, you were probably one of the lone voices of calm sanity, but all around you, was daily drama and chaos. I mean, there was. It's indisputable. And I'm sure that would be the same again.

Donald Trump thrives off that kind of stuff. So there you have a clear point of difference in style. Desantis struck me as somebody pretty serious-minded. He's not a, you know, he doesn't go out with all the lobby gang. He's not a Washington guy. He just wants to do his job. And as he puts it, rack up the score. And he's been very successful in Florida.

I mean, he turned a 30,000 majority first time you around for governor, tiny majority, to 1.5 million. arguably the standout Republican star of the midterm. So he's positioning himself as a different kind of leader, albeit they pursue a lot of similar policies. Yes. I don't believe that the Republican nomination is going to be won or lost. Appears on gender, on age, on race, on style, and not substance.

People are drowning economically. They're searching for pockets of error. Many of them do want the guy back who they felt made them more prosperous and safer. Now, there are plenty of other people who want an alternative to President Trump, even though his poll numbers have been increasing this year. And he's really put a bit of distance, according to the political morning consult poll just this week, really put a bit of distance between he and Ron DeSantis and Republican primary elector. But I think for DeSantis, he should talk more about policy, taxes, regulation, any of his national security of foreign

policy bona fides, because I'll tell you, the world feels like it's on fire right now in so many places. You have Xi Jinping and Vladimir Putin with this budding romance. You have Iran salivating at Israel. You have them also talking to China. It seems like through Saudi Arabia. So many hotspots, Ukraine and Putin. I think these governors who have a great story to tell, including DeSantis, are going to need to show that they have what it takes to be commander-in-chief and national security as well. Let me just make very clear. It won't matter who the Republican nominee is for president. That person will become unrecognized. to the rest of us.

They will do to Ron DeSantis or anyone else what they did to Donald Trump. And that's a given. I also was very surprised he didn't just say damn straight I can. When you asked DeSantis the question, can you beat Joe Biden? He said, I think so. Well, it's interesting because

when you read that, it sounds like he was in some self-doubt. When you watch it, and I'll play the clip now, it comes over slightly differently. Watch this. Do you think you can beat Biden? I think so. So you're running them? No, I didn't say that.

I just said, I think I could. I mean, if you look at Florida... Who would be harder to beat, Biden or Donald Trump? I don't know. Those are two different... Well, there are two different people, that's for sure. But I think it was a more emphatic, I think so, than people have construed it to be. I don't think he was expressing doubt. He was like, yeah, I think so, yeah, I can beat him.

But it was interesting that... It's far less than... That's right. It was going to say, in his eyes, I think he just wanted to make it clear that if he runs, he's running to beat Biden to the White House. He doesn't just see this as running against Donald Trump. That was one of the smartest things he said recently, electorally. He should transport people into the general election

and say, I'm going to run against Joe Biden. And there's a significant contrast between, as many contrasts between Joe Biden and Ron DeSantis. But that road runs through Donald Trump, of course, the nomination. But that was smart. I guess he's less emphatic and more hesitant than his donors and his supporters, and his supporters and those who insist that he can beat Biden.

Let me tell you some, electability is a fiction. I cannot guarantee who can and cannot win years before voters exercise their choice and voice. The way you win the presidency peers is not through electability, it's through electoral college. And you have to go and win those key states like Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Michigan, a whole bunch of them. And you've got to start with Florida. Look, DeSantis in Florida, Kim Reynolds, and Iowa, Mike DeWine in Ohio. These are three states peers that Barack Obama carried 12. that are now ruby red.

DeSantis and Kim Reynolds reelected by 19% by 25% of the vote. So the Republican realignment in some of these states that were previously purple, if not blue, as I say, Obama Biden carried them twice, has been truly remarkable. Okay, let me ask you, Kelly. How to win Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania

like we did in 2016. Of course it comes down to that. Let me ask you about Donald Trump in this case, the Stormy Daniels scandal. Two questions really about this. One is do you think he's going to get indicted? And secondly, will that help or hinder actually his chances of winning back the White House? Well, peers, in true disclosure, I testified twice before that Manhattan grand jury in this case.

And I think I was called there because I was a campaign manager. And clearly, this was not a matter of the campaign. It never crossed my desk. And it certainly wouldn't have broken our stride. I was thinking of one woman at the time in the fall 2016. her name is Hillary Clinton, not the porn person. He expects to be indicted. He expects to be arrested.

And I can tell you, having sat in the grand jury, I think many of the grand jurors themselves were paying rapt attention, taking notes, asking questions, but it's a very unfavorable place for Donald Trump. And the threshold to indict someone is far lower than to prosecute them and convict them. What I think long term, it helps President Trump in that, electorally speaking, people do circle around him.

They say, you've picked upon him so much, you're picking on me too. I think he's got other legal matters. He needs to still outrun that have nothing to do with that case that this DA passed on earlier. His predecessor passed on. The FEC in this country said no to it. The Department of Justice said no. It's a very odd case to bring now. It's a very odd case to bring now to try to get a misdemeanor, books and records under New York law,

to become a felony and indict the president. But there is a whole bunch of people. It goes beyond the Trump base in this country peers who are. are so tired of just trying to get Donald Trump, when they feel like we need to get the economy back in order, get energy independence back, get crime lower, get inflationary prices lower, get the border under control.

People are very upset about that. It's not just the Trump base, which, by the way, is 74 million people to begin with. Yeah, there's a lot of truth in that. And I think making him a martyr over something which is comparatively trivial like this, I think could be a strategic political error. and I think it is politically motivated,

so I wouldn't disagree about that. Have you spoken to the president this week? I have. Yes, I have. Can you send him a message? Just say, look, it's the first anniversary of Pierce Morgan uncensored. The show that he said was catching dead flies, I think, about nearly a year ago. He was my launch guest interview.

So rather than ranting about Ron DeSantis sitting down with this guy in England, what about we do the reunion, the anniversary interview? President Trump and me reunite. go to him. Yeah, pass the message on. I like it. I will recommend that to him. I certainly came. I'm his warm-up band, I suppose. And I'm sure if you went to Tallahassee

for the interview, you'd be willing to go to Palm Beach for the interview. I'd be at Palm Beach in a heartbeat. So I was there last time. That's where we did it in Marilago. Happy to get on a plane any time. So pass him on my very best. Kelly, Ann, great to talk to you. I will do that, sir. Thank you, Pierce. All the best. All the best.

Well, after the break, Prince Harry's drug confessions in his book, could cost him. his US visa. Will they kick him out? And if they do, where will he go? You don't want him back. We'll debate that next. Welcome back.

With me a Talk TV business correspondent was down at Lockwood, talked to be contributor, Esther Cracko, and Daily Mirror Associate Eddardson, Kevin McGough, he was to be in Talk TV, but we let him come in every and then again. Kevin, two big blondes out there battling away to save their careers.

Boris Johnson, is he done? Or will he wriggle off the hook again? No, I think the grease piglet for it this time. Do you? I think they'll find him guilty of recklessly misleading parliament. And what happens to him then? Then they decide the punishment.

I suspect they won't press the nuclear button and make it 10 days because that would trigger a potential by-election in Uxbridge. So you get him to apologize to the House, but you give him a suspension of several days, five days. Meanwhile, his successor after the one we forget about, Tras, Rishi Sinek, squirled out,

on a good day to bury bad, and you're squirled out, it's tax returns today. Now, when I interviewed him at Downing Street several weeks ago, he said they're going to come soon, and he did deliver them. I've got to say, I wasn't massively surprised in the way some people have been that he pays a lot of tax, particularly on capital gains on his investments. The guy is stinking rich, as I said to it. I'm going to count you on that, though.

He doesn't pay that much tax. When you consider he only paid around a quarter of his income in tax, around 21%, which is about the same as a nurse in this country. He made close to $1.9 million over the course of a year, and then only around 430,000 of that went out in tax payments. You're right, he did make a lot of money through capital gains from his investments. But a lot of his money that he's making is from his US funds overseas.

He's not actually property. Why are we so obsessed with it being a problem? We have a Prime Minister who's wealthy. I mean, you were telling me earlier. Is it Singapore? Yes, Singapore. So Singapore, the Prime Minister makes $2.2 million US dollars a year, the equivalent of.

As a salary plus bonus. Now, they're very clear about this. We can't make apples and oranges comparisons because Asian governance models wouldn't work in the UK. But they're clear on why they pay their ministers millions and salaries. They say it encourages good performance.

It encourages attraction of the best candidates and it tamps down on corruption, second jobs and lobbying. Thank you. I've made this point. I said MP salary needs to be quadrupled and to be in the government you need to be paid five times higher

because we need to draw the best talent because I do think the caliber of politicians we have now is so dreadful because no decent person would want to be a politician. I sort of agree, Kevin. I know you won't. Well, I'm sure there's a correlation between high earnings and quality. Well, some of people running 50, 100 companies.

Do you see a banker on minimum wage? If you're a talent. Hold on, but the point is, if you're going to be a good example of a billionaire where you wouldn't think that the probity is high on the agenda. But looking at look at the suit tax return, what I think it makes the case for reform, capital gains and taxing out at least the same as income. Because they're not tax enough. Secondly, yeah, in a cost living crisis,

problem for Sunak and he knows this is he just seems to be out of touch because he is insulated. For instance, he's building a swimming pool when families can't keep their head for water. So you can only be Prime Minister in a cost of living crisis if you're completely skipped. He is the richest Prime Minister

of, by the way, we saw with Boris Johnson when he ran short of cash, what happens when a Prime Minister runs short of cash? They start doing stuff they shouldn't be doing. Getting dodgy loads. You know what's weird? Back in the day, you would celebrate someone like Vishinak because he's a brown man that's made a huge

success of himself in Britain. But now that he's Prime Minister, you're saying he's out of touch because he has too much. And by the way, and his wife told me that when she was very young, they had nothing. Her father became a self-made billionaire in India. It wasn't all just handed to him on a place.

So the he has shaken the charity team. No, but the thing is, she wasn't a... It's not... It's not... She didn't steal the money. It's about... Do we celebrate people who are self-made? There is a problem with... Yes, we do.

Why to an extent of that? Isn't that the whole point? I don't want them running a country. With that's exactly. You don't want any rich person around the country? Not somebody who is so rich they're out of touch. How is he out? I got no feeling... I've got no feeling when I interviewed Rishie Suna that he's out of touch at all.

Do you get any sense then when you interview Trump or DeSantis because US leaders and politicians, they rake in hundreds of millions and donations. They're self-made and wealthy as well. Do you think that makes them effective at governing or are they out of touch? I think that Desanis has been. proven in Florida that actually it's got nothing to do with it. What people want, I think, and they see it in him

certainly, I was quite impressed by him, I have to say not in all his policies, some of which I'll take issue with, but in his leadership style, very firm, very data driven, and very much get the score on the board, get stuff done. That's what people elect to me to do. And it's popular. I've got to say,

everywhere I went in Florida, they love Descenters. In terms of transparency about earnings, the point Kevin's making, I think, Britain has an issue with very wealthy people in power. They want to see transparency of those tax returns. David Cameron, Chancellor George Osborne as well, released a summary of his tax.

I haven't seen any Labour leaders required to release those details. Kier Sauman's got a few bobs stashed away. I mean, Tony Blair was far from home. No, look, they're wealthy, they're comfortable, but not in soon, actually. Let's move on to someone else's got a lot of money. But I definitely don't want running the high office, which is our friend Prince Harry. Now, he's got himself a bit of a bind here.

And I know why. This is, what do you say to Tom Bradby at ITM? There's a fair amount of drugs, marijuana, magic mushrooms, cocaine. I mean, that's going to surprise people. But important to acknowledge. Well, maybe it is. But what he didn't factor into his confession, particularly about drug-taking in America,

is he's not an American citizen. So in a state like California, a lot of Brits might go there and think, oh, it's legal to be seen smoking splits. It's not unless you're an American citizen. The federal law for the whole country, which would apply to non-citizens, is that it's illegal. So he's admitted breaking the law. That could trigger a review of his visa status.

Absolutely. And, you know, the argument is he's not a threat to the country, so that shouldn't affect him too much. But it just shows he's a very stupid man because there's so many instances, I mean, one of the things that he's been complaining about... I did match you mushrooms in California. Are you idiot. You idiot. I don't say that. But the thing is, he's been complaining with that.

His legal case with the home office is that he doesn't receive enough security because, of his status. Well, you know one thing, you don't help yourself when you talk about your Taliban kill count in your book, right? He is his own worst enemy, and this is another thing that just shows how really short-sighted he is as an individual. I'm sure other people have written about drug use nor tobographics.

They have, but that's historic drug use. I don't think the stuff he talks about when he's a teenager is a problem. The problem is this was current in America, taking magic mushrooms in California while he's been there in the last year. I remember Nigella Lawson being taken off a flight in 2014 to the US after she was.

George Michael told me he couldn't go back to America because every time he did, they put him in a room for us. And she'd just been pictured on the front of the Sunday people it was with, I think Charles Sartier then was. He doesn't take it seriously. Pulling her nose. They took her. Now, she hadn't admitted to drug taking or anything,

but there was a suspicion. They took her off a fight. Normally, it's if you then trigger, like, you get a driving offence or you get some criminal offense, then it really comes into play, and you can literally have your visa ripped up and thrown out. Got to take a break. Hold whatever you're about to tell me, Rosanna.

I'm absolutely desperate to hear it. You sound it's so pumped up for it. Come in next. We'll look to my exclusive interview with with the already Governor Ron DeSantis. It's a really interesting room with a guy who might in 2024 be the new president of the United States.

I'm talking about that after the break. Well, welcome back. Well, to say that interview has already caused to stir is an understay. We look at some of the coverage to be getting already. Also in the news this morning, Governor Ron DeSantis,

hinting at what his political future may be. And this sit-down interview with Pierce Morgan. Governor Ron DeSantis Well, he hasn't made a final decision on running for president. He says he could be President Joe Biden. Florida Governor Ron DeSantis delivered his strongest response yet to Trump's attacks in a new Pierce Morgan interview. Ron DeSantis in a new Fox Nation interview telling Pierce Morgan, if I were to run, I'm running against Biden.

Florida governor sat down for a wide-ranging interview with Pierce Morgan. According to the British broadcaster, DeSantis slammed Trump over his character failings. chaotic leadership style and his handling of the COVID pandemic. And the New York Post did well the whole front page, which has certainly rattled cages. That's what's prompted the response from Trump.

So we've got it here. There we go. Ron hits Don. That's not Don of the bitch. That's me. Anyway, it's got a lot of people going. Reseda, Donald Trump, what's incredible is that despite all the legal problems, the porn stars, the this, the that, that, that, the other,

he is on the verge, according to the polls, of potentially making one of the all-time great comebacks. Yeah, depending on which poll you look at, he already has at this point in proceedings. He's galvanising his base at this point, using his criminal proceedings, this Manhattan indictment about his Stormy Daniels case, which you've already discussed at length with Kelly Ann earlier in the show.

But it just is extraordinary that DeSantis can't grab that magabase from Trump. Well, it's hard for him, you know, because what he does, Esther, He just, you know, he's a big beast, Trump. And he comes after people. And it's very hard. Remember what he did to Jeb Bush and all the others? Low energy Jeb, Little Marco Rubio. He gives him his tax.

I'm more short to sanctimonia's world. It's too long. Yeah, it's too long. The problem with Trump is he makes all the other candidates rotate in his orbit because he is the gravitational force, effectively. And when you're running a campaign, well, a primary, that is effectively your kryptonite because you have to have some sort of attention. And you can't really kind of play nice with Trump

And then when you hope it's... No, that's why I think Desanthians were smart To finally get on the front foot a bit. You can't just keep taking it. He was funny, too, about the DeSanctimonious nickname. Listen to this. Which is your favorite nickname that Trump's given you so far? Is it Ron DeSanctimonious or Meatball Ron?

Well, I can't... I think even he went off Meatball Ron, but... I can't... I don't know how to spell De sanctimonious. I don't really know what it means, but I kind of like it's long. It's got a lot of valve. I mean, so we'd go with that. That's fine.

You can call me whatever you want. I mean, just as long as you also call me a winner, because that's what we've been able to do in Florida, has put a lot of points on the board and really take the state to the next level. I thought that was a smart response, a laughing off the nickname, but reminding people he is a big winner.

In those midterms, most of Trump's picks lost or did badly, Desantis absolutely rocketed. Now, he's behind in the polls, but he's about the same place that Trump was against Hillary Clinton. Yeah, he's got to get in the game. game. You've got to get in the game, but you're right, he turned it, turn it around. He laughed at himself, people like that,

and he used it to say he's a winner. And Trump had a terrible midterm line. If I am Joe Biden and the Democrat, I definitely want Trump. Don't you think if it was a pre-Trump era, DeSantis would be absolutely the pick? The ground has shifted under Trump and arguably

under Boris and under COVID and under wars in the last few years, and the way politics is run and the way people vote is different now. You know what's powerful as to charisma. And whether you like Trump or not, he's got unbelievable charisma. And I always say the weird thing about him, he's got the thinnest skin imaginable. So I've had a load of statements for him today calling me ratings challenge, a gun grabber and all the rest of it. Oblivious the fact, he also did loads of it too. But he also has the thickest skin. And that's an amazing quality for a presidential

candidate when all the heat comes. He can soak it up like no one I've seen and dish it out. But there is a possibility in an alternative universe that people could tire of this. So if inflation keeps going up. If, you know, the issues with the economy and with the energy, you know, keep hampering on this, there is going to be a shifting point where people think, you want someone serious handling this. And I think that's

something that could really help more on Descentes. Exactly. And Descentis is a serious guy. I mean, people will see tomorrow and I. I recommend watching it. It's him, as you've never seen him. And he's also very emotional stuff about his wife who just had breast cancer and survived that last year. His sister died in London

of a pulmonary embolism, a ages 30. Wow. Which was an awful time in his family. life. So well worth watching. Thank you, Pag. Great to see you. Tomorrow night, Ron DeSantis and Mani would be president one-on-one for the hour. Whatever you're up to, keep it uncensored. Good night.