Piers Morgan Uncensored - Piers Morgan Uncensored: Boris Johnson Resigns

Episode Date: July 8, 2022

This special episode of Piers Morgan Uncensored gave live reports and analysis on the resignation of Boris Johnson as Prime Minister. Watch Piers Morgan Uncensored at 8pm on TalkTV on Sky 526, Virgin Media 627, Freeview 237 and Freesat 217. Listen on DAB+ and app. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Well, good afternoon. It's 4pm on a quite historic day for the United Kingdom. Welcome to Talk TV's rolling coverage, which will go on for the next few hours, as Boris Johnson is out as British Prime Minister, and the country awaits a new leader. I'm Piers Morgan, live from Talk TV, his headquarters. And I'm Tom Newton Dunn, live from Westminster, alongside Talk TV's political editor, Kay McCann. We'll bring you six hours of non-stop interviews and analysis on a truly momentous day

in British politics. If it happens, you'll see it here first with us. So what's next for this zombie government? What's next for the Conservative Party? And most importantly, what's next for the United Kingdom? It's all up for grabs today. But what's next for Boris Johnson is now clear? Retirement to the political wilderness. A couple of years ago, he seemed untouchable. Britain's blonde knight, the great man who got Brexit done. But he was undone by his own deficiencies. lie after lies, scandal, crisis after crisis.

If he hadn't partied through lockdown, breaking the COVID laws he made and looked after cronies who were obviously unfit for office, who knows how long he might have served. But in the end, he lasted 27 fewer days than Theresa May, the leader with no legacy. What would Boris Johnson's legacy now be?

He was the COVID Prime Minister, and apart from the vaccine rollout, he was pretty bad at that. Brexit remains barely half done with a sticking plaster on the Northern Ireland problem as somebody else went out to solve. So for many people, it's good riddance to Boris. His life in top-line politics surely over.

And this is the moment that it all came crashing down. It is clearly now the will of the parliamentary Conservative Party that there should be a new leader of that party and therefore a new Prime Minister. That new leader, I say, wherever he or she may be, I say I will give you as much support as I can. And to you, the British public, I know that there will be many people who are relieved and perhaps quite a few who will also be disappointed. And I want you to know how sad I am

to be giving up the best job in the world. But them's the brakes. Well, it may be the best job in the world, but it's not Boris Johnson's anymore. And he certainly wasn't the best at doing. In fact, some people today are saying he's the worst Prime Minister that's ever been. He resigned as he governed, boasting, blathering and blaming everybody but himself. And after three Celtic years of disorder and deceit in number 10, it took just two dramatic days of tension and treachery in Westminster to nail Johnson's political coffin. A staggering 59 members of his government walked out after Sajid Javid and Rishi Sunak triggered the avalanche on Monday night. But it was a moment of Machiavelli and Mendocity that finally finished him. Nadine Zahawi,

who Boris appointed Chancellor just two days ago ordered the Prime Minister to resign on Treasury letter-headed note paper this morning. Paper he surely only just got printed. Johnson's new Education Secretary, Michaud Donnellan, walked out this morning too, after one of the shortest terms in Cabinet history. And so it became clear that the greased piglet

has simply run out of Greece. The Prime Minister will continue squatting in number 10 for now. He's out as Tory leader, but will run what's left of his government until the Conservative Party picks a new leader. And that process could drag on until autumn. So Johnson's reshuffling his cabinet today, offering deck chairs on the Titanic to anyone prepared to sit on them.

But the lame duck is now a dead duck, and Britain faces a bizarre spectacle of a zombie government in the internal Conservative Party election at a time of soaring inflation, energy crisis, and a raging war in Europe. Some MPs are still trying to force him out now. Others are busy priming their supporters for the inevitable leadership contest.

So what will Boris do as he tries to bluster on until autumn? Who will be the next leader of the United Kingdom? History is being made today, and we're going to bring it all to you live as it all unfolds. Well, let me bring in now Richard Seiss. We've talked a lot in the last few days. The inevitable has now happened, and yet we're in this bizarre situation where Boris Johnson remains in number 10, says he wants to stay there potentially until October,

while a new leader is found, and yet he can barely fill the ministerial position to be vacated in the last two days. It's hard to know where to start, Pears. I mean, the fact is that a man that a week ago nobody had heard of in the United Kingdom called Pinscher, he stays as an MP, whilst Johnson is going as PM.

It's utterly extraordinary, and it's just happened at breakneck speed. But the reality is, you know, I spoke to you a couple of nights ago, And then you had Nadim Zahawi, as you just inferred, accepting the job of being the new chancellor. The following morning, going around, sort of saying that he and the Prime Minister had a great plan, within hours, turned completely on a U-turn and trying to persuade the Prime Minister to leave. I think Zahari made a massive strategic mistake accepting that job,

because it was obvious to all of us, anybody with any sense of now. But Zahari's not a stupid man. He's made a lot of money in his own life. He's, you know, an amazing backstory coming with his family as refugees from Iraq and so on. I reckon he's made a very cynical calculation.

Take that job, explode his profile, and then do what he did this morning, pull the plug on Boris, who he knew was unfit for office. And then we've got a Grant Shaps, just as I talk to you now, leaving down the street. What's he doing in there?

What jobs he've been offered? He's currently transported, Secretary. Who knows? We're going to be following what all these guys do. We're going to have this... My point about Zahawi is I think that in a way I reckon he's gained this all out and that actually it was a game to raise his profile

right now for a leadership contest which he may win. Well, who knows? Let's see. He's expected to be on the list of runners and riders. But the context of it, just two and a half years ago, as you say, the Prime Minister, he had everything. People thought he was going to be there for 10 years.

And this has only happened. purely because of his own behaviour, his own massive frailties. Well, his own inability to tell the truth. Yes. Really? That's his... If he'd actually told the truth immediately about Pinscher, he might have been able to get through this, but he lied. And it's just, it's an accumulation of a total disconnect with the truth. And finally, finally, after decades, it actually caught up with him

at the biggest, the most important moment. And I think, you know, we now have to look forward. and say what happens next. And I think this is the really important thing. At any time a country wants leadership, but at a time of crisis, when people are struggling to buy the, you know, literally to pay the food bills,

we need the strongest, best, clearest leadership ever. And yet we've got a Conservative Party who seem to think it's okay that they get together sometime next week to set the timetable for the new rules. Get in the room today. They should be in the room today. John Major, a former conservative,

Prime Minister. He's written now to Sir Graham Brady, the head of the 22 committee, with two proposals, very interesting, I think. One, the conventional one, which is Boris Johnson stands the side immediately, and Dominic Raab, his deputy prime minister, takes over his interim PM. He's already said, Rob, he doesn't want to run for leader, so he could do that, which seems to me the easiest clean cut. He did it when Boris had COVID, for example. The second option John Major puts forward is a completely unprecedented scenario where conventionally, we'd have the Tory MP. choosing their final two candidates, then the Conservative membership of 100,000 or so people

choose who they want to be actually running their party and therefore the country. He's suggesting you bypass the membership and they just endorse the selection of the Tory MPs. What do you think of that? So I don't often agree with John Major, but actually I tweeted out his first scenario early this morning because I think that's exactly what should happen.

And actually now that Dominic Raab has written himself out of the leadership context, he is perfectly placed. And I think that should happen to literally now because I don't think, given how the Prime Minister behaved over the last 40 hours, I don't think he can be trusted actually to go. He wants to be the caretaker. I wouldn't trust him to be the janitor

or cleaning the looze at number 10. I mean, I just can't believe this guy lost the confidence of his entire Cabinet, virtually, and he's still sitting there. So I can tell you that a Cabinet Minister confirmed this morning, very, very early that he thought actually the Prime Minister had taken leave of his census. He wanted to literally be metaphorically, die on the battlefield of the no-confidence

You know who's currently in the frame to be the next minister? Don't tell me you, Pears. Actually, we both are. We both are. You're 100 to 1. And I'm 250 to 1, but I was 500 to 1. You're coming in. The book is, I mean, if this was Frankie Datoria, ask it, you'd be piling in on me by now. But you've got all the right skills. You've got very similar skills.

About the same age, newspapers. paper background, columnist, hugely popular with suede of the British public. And full of BS, I mean, what's like? Exactly, exactly. What's not the like? I've got, I take all the boxes. You'll be haged one by the end of the show. We've got to, well, keep on all and on those odds. The moment, Ben Wallace, Defence Secretary is the guy leading the polls. Rishi's soon act, though, remains the most popular with the public, interestingly.

Which is extraordinary, given what happened with his sort of non-dom tax scandal. I don't think people really understood it. And I think, If your scandal involves something most of the public don't really understand. I think you've got a chance to get through it. In Boris' case, they understood he lied about a grope called Pinscher. It was the kind of language we all understood. Stay with me, Richard.

I'm joined now by Tom Bauer, author of the Boris Johnson biography called The Gambler. Tom, you've been heard today to use the word tragedy about this. Explain yourself. Well, I think it's a tragedy for Boris himself, not for the country. because there was a man who won the spectacular victory in 2019. We all thought there was no chance of Labour returning to popularity

in the next four years before the next election. And he had all the makings on the basis of his mayoralty in London for eight years of being a very good Prime Minister. He'd got Brexit done. He had sorted out Europe. He'd sorted out the COVID thing up to the extent. He had a clear vision for leveling up. He knew exactly in his own mind.

He spelted out what the country was going to do. So there it was. And the tragedy is that his own characteristic, his own flaws, brought him down. His complete self-destruct. Isn't the real tragedy? That isn't from Boris's point of view, a tragedy. Of course it is.

But isn't... It's rather sad. Isn't the real tragedy, actually, that we didn't learn the lessons that Boris Johnson taught us about his character? to failings. He was fired as a journalist from the Times for inventing quotes. He was then fired by Michael Howard for lying about an extramarital affair. Max Hastings, who'd employed him, said he wouldn't trust him as far as he could throw him. And yet we end up with this guy as prime

minister, and he ends up, guess what? Telling lie after lie after lie and getting caught up in a slew of scandals. In the end, shamed him, shamed his party, and shamed the country and exposed this all to ridicule. I mean, it's not like we weren't. warned, he basically behaved exactly how people had warned this he would behave. Well, you're right, people did warn, and they've been proved to be right. But, you know, no journalist is pure, clear, as we all know that. Every journalist has made a viewer as on the way. Speak to yourself, Tom. I'm about as pure as the driven snow, don't you know, but then we're not all

running for high office, and we're not all wanting to be prime minister. That's the difference. Nobody would have cared about what Boris Johnson was like if he didn't then become prime minister. Yes, but he had done eight years. as mayor, and he had never been accused then of life. And he had been for a minister. No, Tom, he had. He'd already been fired twice before that. Yeah, but the Times thing,

so he made up a quote, it was awful, but he was 21. You know, come on, peers. He made up a quote that went on the front page of the Times. I mean, it's pretty, come on. Pierce, I think there's a phrase in English about glass houses and stones. Let's move on from that. I'm not made up a quote that went on the front page of the time,

to my knowledge. Let's move on. You're a greatly successful man. I'm not going into personal detail. Let us just stick to the facts that he might have done a few things wrong. Even Michael Howard says that he made a mistake firing him. He's quite open about that. I mean, why should he confess to an adulterous affair?

Because Michael Howard says he should. The point is that when he won the spectacular victory in 2019, the public trusted him. And if it hadn't been for Boris Johnson, we would have had Corbyn, an anti-Semitic Marxist, as Minister. And he fulfilled the referendum result, whether you support it or not, that had to be done. He then set out a program which, if it had been delivered, would have been terrific with the country. His tragedy is he couldn't deliver it because he didn't know how to make Westminster work.

He didn't know how to make government work. He didn't know how to build a proper team. He was just in the end completely flawed, whether it was by COVID, whether it was because of his marital situation, whether it was because of his personal defects, whatever it was, it all fell apart. Now, you could call that just desserts or you could call it a personal tragedy, or you could say it's pretty bad for the country at large, because this whole thing has been a complete disaster for us

and hasn't edified anyone. What I do think, Tom, I did think his, I thought the leaving speech is one of the most graceless things I've watched by a prime minister resigning. I remember Theresa May, got very emotional, and I was quite moved by her farewell speech. Boris Johnson didn't move me at all other than to think, look at him. He's once again, no personal accountability,

blaming everybody else for conservative herds for bringing him down, not his own actions. And I just felt there was a guy just, I thought, graceless. I can't disagree with you. But that is the man. And that is the man who in the end delivered this 18 major. He is a totally shameless man lacking in humility, a total narcissist, a selfish man, a dishonest man. But in the end, you can call that a dreadful man.

But, you know, it is in human terms for many Tories who trusted him. And I didn't trust him, but I see the human side of him. It is very sad because it hasn't benefited anyone. We're in a terrible situation. It will quickly rectify itself. Britain can survive Boris Johnson and within three weeks will have forgotten him until his memoir has come out

and unfortunately telling lots more lies probably but let us just look at it for the moment there is nothing to be gained and say we've gone through anything other than a tragic epic episode because it has been very bad for the country, bad for the Tory party, very bad for politics.

It's just one of those tragic events which happens in all nations in the world. Yeah. Tom Bauer, as always, great perspective. Really appreciate you joining me. Thank you very much. Pleasure. Richard, we'll come back in a moment.

We'll have a short break. You want to get your take on what Tom just said. Interesting observations there. We'll stay with us. We've got rolling coverage. The next few hours now on a historic day of the United Kingdom, Boris Johnson has resigned as British Prime Minister. We are awaiting news now.

The leadership contest will find out who will become the most powerful person in this country. More after the break. Welcome back to this special. edition, Talk TV's coverage of the resignation of Boris Johnson this morning some four hours ago. Well, what does it mean? It means that for the third time in eight years, a conservative prime minister has fallen foul at their own party. It also means for the third time in eight years, there's going to be another hot summer of Tory leadership contest. And after all that,

there will be a fourth prime minister for Tory prime minister in 12 years. So the runners and riders are Some are already declaring their hands, others showing a little bit of ankle. It's all going to be a very exciting few weeks for the likes of last down in Westminster. It's also why, if you were to be able to see you around, but you'd see a phalanx of cameras, of protesters, of spectators over there, wondering what on earth all the spectacle is. They're not from this country. There is one thing, however, that we still don't know after today's momentous events, and that is, when is the Prime Minister going to go?

He said he was off. We believe he wants to go long. We believe a whole load of other people in his party wants him out. by tonight. Well, with me is our esteemable political editor, Kate McCann, as always at times a crisis like this. So, Kate, let's start with precisely that point. What do we know about precisely when the Prime Minister is going to leave office? So we know that as of this morning, when the Prime Minister decided that his time was up, he wants to stay in office until the leadership race is run. Now, at the moment, the expectation is that that could be, running up

until September, the 1922 committee will elect a new executive on Monday. They will then determine a timetable. And what's going on right now when it comes to the runners and riders is fascinating because unless the party can coalesce around one candidate, and potentially that's Ben Wallace, then this decision has to go out to the party members. And if it goes that far, then this contest goes long. There are some who say today that Dominic Raab has said he won't stand to be leader for precisely the reason that there are many in the party now calling,

for him to take Boris Johnson's place in number 10 and force the Prime Minister out. But there is no constitutional way of doing that and it could get really messy. Okay, so that's an unanswered question. It's going to remain unanswered for a little while, perhaps. Perhaps we'll wait and see what the moments of the rest of the day are like. Let's go back a step.

Let's talk about this morning. So we have this extraordinary power blade, the one final power play left from Boris Johnson last night, saying, I'm not going to listen to the entirety of my cabinet. I'm going to stay on. I've got a whole new economic policy to unveil next week when I brand new Chancellor. Yet around 9ish this morning,

we learned indeed from Downing Street he was going to resign. What was the moment that changed his mind and why did he change his mind? So I don't think there was one definite moment. The Prime Minister Boris Johnson doesn't really work that way. He tends to push things until he really can't push them any further. I think what happened today,

he was always going to have a meeting with senior people and his party at 8 o'clock in the morning. When it was approaching that time, we'd already had a number of pretty senior figures resign. the number started to look pretty impossible for him to be able to replace as many cabinet ministers as he expected would go. And at that point, following a conversation with Graham Brady, chair of the 1922 committee last night and his chief whip and others, the Prime Minister decided that there was just no way, really, for him to continue in office. That doesn't mean, though, that he's not defiant.

The mood there in number 10 today, and remember, we've just had a cabinet meeting is very much carry on as normal, carry on with the job, plow forward. And we expect a big economic speech, the one that's been trailed. for the last couple of weeks to come next week at some point with the Prime Minister and potentially his Chancellor standing alongside one another. That would be a really huge moment. If, of course, he's still Prime Minister by next week, which is still a very big if? Yeah, I think the difficulty here is that we're talking into really complicated constitutional terms

of exactly how the party can get rid of a leader. Monday is really the key moment for that 1922 election, and we see what happens from there. But over the weekend, if we see one candidate, one front-runner, it could shorten that contest. And we have a few people showing legs already. We have Suella Brob and the Attorney General saying she's running last night. One or two others are flirting with it, but no other full declarations there. I suspect we'll get many more, though, as the days and hours go on. Yeah, I expect so.

But the people who've ruled themselves out are interesting too. And as I was saying, Dominic Grab, one of those. Michael Goeb, we understand another. Okay. There's there you have it. There will be awful lot more from us from down here throughout the rest of the night. Well, thank you very much, Tom. And Kate, I appreciate it.

joined now by broadcaster Adam Bolton. I've still got Richard Tice with me here. So Boris has issued a statement in the last few minutes, which I'm just going to call up for you, Adam, in case you haven't seen it, in which he says the following. I want to thank you the British public for the immense privilege of serving you as Prime Minister. I want you to know that from now until my success is in place, your interests will be served and the government of the country will be carried on. How are my interests as a taxpayer in this country and voter going to be served a lame duck prime minister than not even his own cabinet

trust to do his job, now running the country for the next few weeks? Well, this is where it gets very messy indeed. I mean, Boris Johnson, as he made clear, outside down this morning, thinks that this is an eccentric decision to get rid of him. He still feels that he's got support

for his agenda from the election result in 2019. But Adam, I don't give a monkey's cuss what he thinks about anything. No, but that's what he... He's done. He's... No, but the point is...

No, but the point is he's asserting himself, peers, and he's trying to say, I'm still here, my agenda's still here, so he's making it difficult for his successes. I get it, but why are we letting this happen? Why is the country allowing this dead duck to do this? Well, I'm not sure they will, you see. I think what's going to happen is I don't think this will be resolved today. What he should do is the decent thing,

and simply appoint Dominic Robb as a caretaker prime minister. He's obviously not going to do that. So I think on Monday, once the Conservative MPs have regroup, they have a choice. One is to see if they can short-circuit the whole process of choosing a leader, get it done by the end of the month, which basically involves not involving the country, having one candidate to merge. The second solution is to say there are too many candidates, we've got to have a proper leadership contest, and at that point, I think the pressure will be on Boris Johnson to step aside. Richard. But of course, this pressure, it has to come not from the

people, it has to come from the cabinet. Yeah. And that requires some people. guts. It requires a backburn. And the 22 committee. And the 22 committee. And what I think the 22 committee should be doing is they should be meeting today. They should be making these decisions today. It's Thursday. This could be wrapped up by tomorrow morning. And I know

lots of people are making representations at the highest level to the 22 saying, pull your finger out, get on with it. This is a crisis. You can't wait until Monday with all the uncertainty that that causes. And millions of people, tens of millions of people,

who's struggling, will be saying, get on with it. I want some certainty. I think you're absolutely right, but what we're seeing at the moment, I'm afraid, is that Boris Johnson is bolder than anyone else in the Tory party. That's the point. I agree. He's got the husband to do this, and he's basically saying, well, come on, then what are you going to do about it? Right?

Exactly. That's precisely what's going on. And, of course, what he's also going to do is try and stay in office and influence the leadership contest. I mean, we've already had Andrew Griffiths, he's head of policy, putting out a non-resigning letter, I'm not resigning, these are our policy priorities, this is what we're working on. So it's a zombie government, basically, with a zombie capital. Has the leadership contest officially started? Well, we've got Suella Botherman saying she's a candidate, I know. She even has a logo on a Twitter page.

Liz Truss rushing back from the latest foreign photo. I know that when I had to leave Good Morning Britain, the head of programming there, told me it took seven minutes for the first application for my job to come in. That long? I said, what kept them? So nothing surprises me in these situations. But it is a bizarre situation where you've got him still stuck there. John Major sent a letter to Graham Brady of the 22 committee

saying either he should stand aside for Rab, which is what he did, of course, when he had COVID, or interesting suggestion by John Major, you rewrite the rules, basically, at the moment, the Tories go through their election process amongst themselves, the MPs, then they get the final two, then the membership votes. He's saying you eliminate the membership part of that until the end. They just ratify whatever the Tory MPs between them decide to be the leader.

They've certainly done that before. Oh, they have done it before? Yeah, I mean, that's what happened with Trees of May, and I think it's pretty much what happened with Michael Howard. So the membership don't actually have a... No, what you do... Well, basically, technically, What you do is you offer one candidate to the membership.

Well, let's remember. And then you have a confirmatory ballot of the membership, but what the hell are they going to do? With Theresa May, Andrew Ledson pulled out, so there was no one left. Yeah. So it was de facto done. I actually think the membership would have a major problem.

I think he's got a slight variant on this, because I think he's saying you don't even do that. He does. I think he's saying you basically, the Tory MPs go through their process, they get to the last two, then the Tory MPs make a decision. That person becomes prime minister,

and the membership are then asked to induce. to endorse the... No, I was just saying how you could engineer it if one of the candidates pulled out. I don't think the membership would put up with that because I think we all know that means you would end up with a very different Prime Minister to actually the will of the membership.

And many of those members are there just for this point, just for this scenario to make sure they have a say in the next leader of the Tory party. So that in itself, I think, would lead to a huge bust-up. And I can see why Sir John Major wants that because I think he thinks that would increase the chance of someone like Jeremy Hunt being.

Right, but is this whole concept of the membership having any say in this kind of situation anachronistic? Well, all parties have to do it because they want to recruit people who become paying members. Should they be allowed to? I think it's ludicrous. I do. I mean, I think you elect members of Parliament.

They're the ones who should choose their leader. No, but question one, you say, okay, Tory party, you're going to have an election with your members to choose the next leader. How many are there? Oh, we don't know. We've had no real recognition. You know, we pick a team of selectors, a coach. They choose a team.

The team then picks a captain, right? The idea that the MCC membership would all then have a say on who's captain. It's ridiculous. But all parties, and it happened in America as well, with a primary system, they try to democratise this to try and get people involved. That's the point. It encourages members to join, which, of course, encourages revenues. But it also encourages the kind of abuse we saw,

which led to Jeremy Corby and becoming the leader. That was Edmunds. Because if you let thousands of the great unwashed students of our world pay five quid each to get a say in the leader, you end up with Jeremy Corbyn. Well, I mean, you know, that was just he set the rules wrong. He should have, you know, made it retrospective. And, you know, so you can understand why it is and it's more democratic. There's no question about that. So there's all sorts of good reasons. But if you've said to people, join and you'll have a say, and then you withdraw that say, then I think you'll get a very, very angry membership indeed. Chaps, wait here, another short break. Let me come back.

more on our rolling special coverage of this amazing day. United Kingdom, our prime minister's resigned, but he's still in number 10. What's her majesty of the queen thinking? We've got a live shot of the packs, I think it is. What's going on in there? Does she feel comfortable with Boris Johnson, still down the road as her neighbor? We'll ponder that after the break. Welcome back to extended live coverage on Talk TV of this historic day for the

Kingdom as Boris Johnson resigns dramatically as our prime minister. Joining me now is Bim Afalami, who resigned as Vice Chair of the Conservatives live on air, on Talk TV on Tuesday. Well, if a week is a long time in politics, Bin, a few hours has turned out to be the most extraordinary time in politics. I can remember we had a new chancellor two days ago, and this morning he's writing a letter on treasury-headed note paper to the bloke who appointed him telling him he's got to go. Yes, that was a bit odd And yeah, it definitely feels like we've lived

sort of 10 days in about three. What the hell is going on now with Boris Johnson? Why should he be entitled to stay one moment longer in Downing Street given that 59 of his own ministers, including most of his highest-ranking cabinet ministers, had lost all confidence in him and resigned their post? I don't get it. It's taken a bit of understanding for me as well.

I think that on speaking to colleagues today, it's important that we do have due process for electing a new leader. I think that I'm surprised that the Prime Minister is staying in post and appointing new ministers. It strikes me as very, very odd. But that is what the party as a whole seems to have decided. I think the new 1920-22 executive will have a big say in it next week, and then we will see what.

what the new 22 executive says, because actually, what's important for viewers and everybody to understand is that the Prime Minister is not in control of the timetable. So the 1922 executive, the Conservative Parliamentary Party,

is a control of that timetable, and I think we feel, as collectively as a party, that we will control that and get to the right resolution, not understanding... Well, hang on, you keep using the word control. With respect, you keep using the word control. Boris Johnson's not in control of his own cabinet. Never mind the country. And the 22

committee, why are they waiting until next week? It's Thursday. Why aren't they meeting right now? Why aren't they just sorting this mess? Why aren't they getting Boris Johnson out of Downing Street and putting either Dominic Rabin as the interim as he was when Boris had COVID or working something else out quickly for the national interest? There's no control of anything at the moment. Well, I think it's fair to say that what we're going to have is a sort of caretaker administration. I don't agree with Andrew Griffiths who seems to put out a very odd statement saying that we're working on policies all the rest of it. I don't think there's political legitimacy for that at all. But it's important, on speaking to several cabinet colleagues yesterday, it's important that we do have effective government.

It's important we have ministers to administratively run the country. And I have confidence in that that will be. Sorry, Ben, sorry to interrupt again. How can we possibly have effective government? When most of the people he's putting in there are people at the very lower end of ability and talent who just happened to be the only one's left, it will do it. That's not effective government.

That's desperate government. What I'm saying about, what... You may say that. I do say that, yeah? When I say effective, when I say in terms of effective government, what I mean is... people administratively exercising the functions of the state. And that is important because we couldn't continue with a situation

where everybody would reside, right? So I think it's important we do that. The 1922 executive, they have agreed that we'll do the elections on Monday. The Prime Minister has already agreed he'll leave. We will see on Monday what they decide to do. I happen to think that there will be intense debate across the party over the coming days about what that 1922 executive should do.

In my personal preference, the 22 exec should set forward and be very, very clear about what this caretaker administration can do and what it can't do. I don't think it makes sense for them to announce new policy or to drive things forward in that way. Okay. One final question, Bin, it's a very important one. Have you lost that loving feeling? I am for a very rare time in my life peers, speechless. Ben, you may not even be aware, but as you were talking to me, you've lost that loving feeling, was blaring out from this area of lunatics down by a wall. I mean, believe you me, he'll have known that that noise was going on there. I mean, I think it's one of the sadnesses about...

No, it is. We'll come to that. But, Ben, were you even aware, Bin, that that was playing behind you or not? Or were you were so in the zone, you were oblivious? Well, I could hear it, but I didn't know what you could hear, so I think you've just got to keep going. Okay, but just to clarify, you haven't lost. That's that loving feeling. No, no, I'm agnostic as to the loving feeling that I may or may not have lost.

Bin Nathalamu, thank you very much indeed for joining me. I appreciate it. On that point, Adam, these absolute cretins, led by Steve and his stupid loud hailer, I think they're really damaging, actually, to the public perception of our political system. No, I couldn't agree more. Every time you have a serious interview, you get morons, you know, sharp and things, absolutely. Of course, during Brexit, we actually had MPs on both sides being jostled by some of the demonstrators. I mean, I'm so relieved to be here rather than actually down there. Yeah, yeah.

Because it does come to the point sometimes where you can't actually hear yourself speak. And, of course, it affects what you can say to the viewers. I mean, we want to hear from a former Conservative Vice Chairman. All our viewers want to hear that. And I think it's very destructive. The government supposedly has just brought in new legislation to deal. with noisy demonstrations. But I know from me down in Westminster,

they are very, very reluctant to intervene against people who are lunatics. I mean, my favourite one is the defrocked Irish priest who wears a kilt and capers to recorded music. Quite what that's got to do in British politics, I don't know. He didn't strike me, frankly, as though he was really on it, actually, in terms of the gravity of the situation we're in and the need for urgency and speed.

I'm just picking up on Twitter. 222 committee, a working plan is to whittle down the leadership to the final two by July the 21st. It's July the 7th. I mean, that's absurd. That's two weeks away, followed by a six-week hustings process. So we're talking about

at least eight or nine weeks before we've got a new Conservative leader, a new Prime Minister, when they think that it's okay for Boris Johnson to remain in number 10. Esther, welcome. Thank you for racing here. I know it's been an adventurous trip for

where you were robing in the back of your cab. I don't even want to go. Let me ask you about your reaction, first of all, to Boris's resignation speech. What did you make of it? I was very disappointed because, I mean, it's nothing out of the ordinary, but I was hoping he would say,

this has happened because it's my fault. This is something I've done. And there was no personal responsibility there, which I suppose we're not surprised. Everyone knows Boris's ego is as large as Westminster itself. But I just thought, you know... And his lack of accountability. If he can blame somebody else, he will.

He will. But, you know... He did. Heard mentality. Heard mentality of his own conservatives, right? You know, is this how you want to leave, really? You know, the first speech... We don't want to leave. Yeah, true, but the first way you're addressing the public. Dominic Cummings has been tweeting away, like the vengeful ex-lover that he is.

But he makes some interesting points. He says, you know, if you let this guy stay another day, total carnage is going to erupt. You can't be trusted to do anything. But if he stays, what's going to happen, so all the ministers that have resigned are going to come back, and then look him in the eye and still be subordinate to him. That's absolutely absurd.

That's not even possible. It's absurd. And in his speech, he actually referred to that party when he actually meant my party, the Conservative Party. Not much love and loyalty. He's not a team player, though. He's a complete narcissist, and this shows. But I think the conservative, you know,

the conservative party is supposed to be about duty. Where is your sense of duty when you're making the country wait eight weeks for a new leader? And in the interim, we have this guy who just refuses to go still. Well, I predict it will have to change. think it's acceptable. And I think you're absolutely right that, you know, what happens when you use the party leader

is the party turns in on itself and gets interested in its bruggles and it's canvassing and its hustings and its status, which is fine when they're in opposition. But when they're in government, not acceptable. Sorry, there's a war raging in Europe. There's a financial crisis the like of which none of us have ever seen

before, and it's going to get worse before it gets better. You know, you've got a pandemic that's now flaring up again with another variant going crazy. The idea that we've got this kind of lame government run by rudderless leader who's already said I'm going and none of his cabinet ministers trust him. I just find utterly... I'm just one other sort of selfish aspect of this is the appointing of this zombie cabinet of new members. Because, you know, if you've come in as Northern Ireland secretary, for example, the notion

that you can get your grip of what's going on in Northern Ireland, in the six weeks or nine weeks you're going to be in the job, is ridiculous. And he could. They may not been brilliant, but he could have brought back on those... One of the most famous person on that list we're looking at now is Nadine Doris. When she's the front woman for the cabinet, you know whatever the question is, we got the wrong answer. But he could have brought back the resignees, and he didn't out of spite. And so people with experience are being excluded. Whereas a caretaker could have done exactly that.

Dominic Raab, as Deputy... Bring them all back and while we saw this out. Reset, everybody's back in their positions. We will carry on and we'll have a rapid election. I mean, this goes further to destroy the Conservative Party's reputation that has nothing to do with Boris, because this is all in the Conservatives' hands. They could say, you're going today, Dominic Rob is going to do this, and all those ministers that resign because Boris is literally toxic are going to come back,

and things are going to run until we make sense of this. That's what a responsible Conservative Party should do. Yeah, but Johnson didn't do that until he made his announcement. He was still a Prime Minister, and he used his power to put in these questions. What power? This is the thing. He had the power of appointment. People went along with it. And there are important pieces of legislation going through,

the Houses of Parliament today, next week, that are now completely and utterly rudderless with new ministers coming in who've not a clue, frankly, what they're doing? What happens if, you know,

Vladimir Putin decides to suddenly be aggressive towards the United Kingdom? Is it down to Boris Johnson now? The man who's resigned who's lost to confidence of most of his cabinet, is he the one that makes

the decision about the security of his country? Well, it should be said that the Ben Wallace said he's actually the only reason why he didn't resign. Well, for that reason. Was because he had a defence response.

But he ultimately wouldn't make the final decision. And so there is continuity there. And also, I think, the security minister stayed on. The Home Secretary stayed on as well. But they would not be the ultimate arbiter of that kind of decision. It would be Boris Johnson. They wouldn't be the ones pressing the button. No.

No. Let's go to TV star Tom Newton Dunn. It's with the Suns, well, one of the many stars, obviously, is with the Sun's political columnist of Trevor Kavanaugh. They're down in Westminster. Take it away, guys. Thank you, Piers. I'm indeed with Trevor Cavana. Now, Trevor is the Associate Editor of the Sun. He was the Sun's political editor, a job I might have some familiarity with a few years ago.

Now, Trevor came on to our program, the news desk on Tuesday night, just after Sajid Javid and Rishi Sunak's resignations to the government, which was, I suppose, the immediate tipping point that has put Boris Johnson out of office. And Trevor immediately, I think practically the first commentator there was, said, that is it, the time is up, Boris Johnson must go. So Trevor is indeed a clairvoyance, because you could say he's now predicting events, as he did when he put it in the end of the sun. You'll talk to Trevor about Boris Johnson's

resignation speech about half-bast twelve today. Very, very big moment in British people of history, as these speeches always are. First, we're just going to play you a bit of that that we thought was most interesting. And in the last few days, I've tried to persuade my colleagues that it would be eccentric to change governments

when we're delivering so much when we have such a vast mandate and when we're actually only a handful of points behind in the polls, even in mid-term after quite a few months of pretty relentless sledging. And when the economic scene is so difficult domestically and internationally. And I regret not to have been successful in those arguments. And of course it's painful not to be able to see through so many ideas and projects myself.

But as we've seen at Westminster, the herd instinct is powerful. And when the herd moves, it moves. Well, when the herd moves, it moves. Trevor, you've just heard it again. You heard it at lunchtime today. Your thoughts, it was very lacking in any contrition whatsoever. You won't hear any contrition from Boris Johnson on this at all. I think that actually it was a fairly well-crafted and delivered speech.

I think it depends on what your viewpoint of Boris is, whether you're a fan or a critic. But I thought it was rather well done. And he did it almost as if he was doing it off the top of his head. He had a script, but he didn't read it very much. And I think it will begin to have a resonance with those voters who voted particularly for Boris Johnson because of Brexit. So his main argument to all his MPs but also to the rest of the country was, look, I should still be here.

There's no reason I'm out of this job. The only reason I'm out of this job is because the herd panics. And by the herd, he means his Tory MPs, his ministers, and they all jumped on the same bandwagon and said, do you know what boss, you've got to go? Now, you don't think he's right in that. You think he had to go from the moment his authority completely disappeared. So who is right? Trevor Kavanaugh or Boris Johnson?

I think he was on his way out long ago, with the own Patterson resignation and by-election that followed. Events then unfolded, which were all uniformly against Boris's judgment, his credibility, as honesty. And frankly, I think he's tilting at Winwales by suggesting that he could carry on in any way, shape or form, even as a transitory prime minister. I think he's got to go. He's got to go now. And I think he's got a Dominic Raab, his deputy prime minister, so he's ready to take the help. He says he's got to go now. He doesn't want to go.

He wants to go to September. That debate is hugely active at the moment. It's a huge unresolved issue. How is he going to go now? Because he ain't going to go quietly. Well, no, he isn't. I think he's going to have to be forced out. And he's going to have to be told by the party that he's got to go.

And if necessary, they've got to change the rules to know they can actually lever him out of that office. But as I say, I think that this is still a huge problem. for the Tory party running into the future. I think we're going to see Sellers' remorse, which I predicted some time ago. Once Boris has gone, all his low crimes and misdemeanors

are going to be washed away. The thing that will be remembered is the election victory, Brexit, COVID, and the way of his departure, which will be seen as a victory for a remainer. Okay, victory for a remainer. John Major, the former Conservative Prime Minister

early today, also called for a change in the rules, so Boris should get out. Did this the first time in human history that I'm aware of that Trevor Kavanaugh agrees with John Major. That's a terrible company. Here's a story I want to talk about with my panel. This is from Pryper Carrera. He's broken many great stories

of Daily Mirror throughout the Johnson of final years. Headline, Boris Johnson and wife Carrie to host lavish checkers wedding party while he clings on. So apparently, they've got this A savage bash planned in July, so July the 30th, so this is three weeks away. They've already sent the invitations out, and the word is that one of the reasons Boris Johnson wants to cling on and stay on in power for as long as possible.

So we can have this big wedding bash at Jackers, Adam Bolton. Well, I think we've seen before, after people have left office, that they've been lent accommodation, great and favour of accommodation. Why should he be given a free wedding at Chequers? Well, you know, if it gets rid of him, I would go for that. But he certainly should... I don't think British taxpayers should be... Well, British taxpayers don't pay for chequers. For any of it?

For charity? No, they don't. They pay for... Is it really not a penny? No, it's a charitable... They have to pay for their meals and things. I thought things like cleaning and all that kind of stuff to pay for. It's not like Chevening. This is not British government. It's actually an independent trust which raises funds.

Right. And we know Boris Johnson has been rattling the tenets. to get more contributions. You could easily sort that out. I mean, you know, it's just arranging that. It's quite clear that none of us have had the invitation, which obviously is very disappointing. I know.

But, I mean, that's ridiculous. It's not a reason to keep it. The worrying thing is it has a real ring of truth to it, given how he has behaved and continues to behave. This is a man who's planning a hundred and fifty thousand quid tree house. Yeah, I mean, that is utterly shameless. And you know Carrie Johnson's taste as well. I mean, a taste in wallpaper enough is enough to bankrupt any man.

Well, a taste in men is pretty dubious. What are they going to do with the wallpaper? Maybe she's about to marry Boris Johnson. Maybe they need eight to ten weeks to get the wallpaper off the wall. I mean, we're sort of laughing about it, but I think a lot of mirror readers in particular, having run that paper for a long time, they would be incensed at the idea that this would play any part

in Boris Johnson's thinking. I'd better hang on a bit because I can news check it. I'll tell you, he'll be laughing at it, President Macron and Joe Biden and all the others. It would just be absolutely shot that Britain could get itself in this sort of mess. I mean, the other person I think you will be laughing most of this, Vladimir Putin, who is looking at total turmoil in Britain.

He's looking at a pretty rudderless America right now with Biden at shocking new approval rating levels. And he's probably thinking, great. Right when I want them to, the West is basically losing its mind. And Zelensky's expressed sadness. Well, I watched Zelensky. He was very heartfelt. And if you're Zelensky, you'd probably think Boris is a hero, because he was probably the most vocal of all the European leaders,

and certainly the first out of the traps to help him. The cynic in me says that Boris saw very early on because he loves Churchill and know that Churchill got out of his hole by basically becoming a war hero. And Boris thought, great, I've got a... Look, I know I'm being cynical, and I've got no reason to believe this is true,

but I wouldn't put it past Boris to have basically used the Ukraine vehicle, if you like, as a way to try and get above the fray of the scandals. It was Thatcher, isn't it? Yeah, I mean, it was probably the best thing he said in his speech today actually was referenced that whatever happens, the United Kingdom will still stand full square,

four square with Ukraine and President Zelensky. And I think Ben Wallace has reiterated that. That's the confidence that President Zelensky should draw is actually the durability and I think the strength of Ben Wallace and the people around him. That's the real

comfort that the Ukrainian leadership. Let me go to Kate McCann, the talk to the political editor who's down in Westminster there. Kate You're very good at picking up on the old jungle drums. Is there any real concerted move to try and get Boris Johnson out of Downing Street immediately, as someone like John Major's called for?

So there is a move, but whether or not it's going to go anywhere is another question. I think what we saw happen earlier today was Dominic Robb came out and said that he will not run for the leadership. And that means that he is in position, if it were to happen in his favour, to be the interim prime minister. And just at the same time that he said that, there were a couple of MPs who then texted me pretty much instantly with very similar on the record statement saying,

we would support Dominic Raab being the interim leader if we could find a way to move Boris Johnson on. We don't think that he should continue. So yes, there is an effort, but the question is whether it goes anywhere because as we were saying before, there were constitutional reasons why the Prime Minister pretty much has the right to stay in Downing Street.

Most other Prime Ministers have done it. It would cause quite a, I mean, a difficult process for the Queen to try and remove him. And many here in Westminster just don't see how that ultimately happens. And we know from number 10 today, Boris Johnson intends to stay until this contest has run, which could well be September. How, by the way, did you get the fancy gig of being out in the garden and streaming sunshine, and I get stuck in here? I know.

I think the bigger question, peers, is why on earth would anybody come down here on a day like today in a black jumper and black trousers? to stand in full sunshine. I'm not sure I've got the better end of the deal here. Are you in Funereal Black because of mourning for Boris, or what's the deal? No, I've got my pink coat for later, so I'll swap it out, and then I'll be much brighter. It's unintentional. I think you need to be kind of mid-range, don't you?

Because if you look like you're celebratory too much, you'll get hammered for that. At the moment, you look like you're basically attending a funeral. Well, look, send me something down here. Send me something down here, and I'll wear it. That could be very dangerous, but send me that. You did very well with that MP who I've no idea who he is. What's his name Dunderhead? What was his name Dunderhead?

Duderidge. James Dutteridge. You don't want to reignite that one. I want to get him and his wife on. But you did brilliantly as the chaos was unfurling. I think he was quite keen. It was that wonderful moment when I suddenly realized he could actually hear me giving you notes. That was the priceless moment.

Kate, stay with us. We're going to be back with you. And when I watched him back afterwards. Yeah, exactly. We've got hours of each other's company tonight. Looking forward to it. Without breaking news throughout. the next few hours on this historic day for the United Kingdom,

where Boris Johnson has resigned and all hell is breaking loose. Momentous day in British politics, the United Kingdom has an important vacancy. Good news, the incumbent thinks will have no problems filling it. I know that there will be many people who are relieved, and perhaps quite a few who will also be disappointed. And I want you to know how sad I am to be giving up the best job in the world. Well, if you feel that sad, you should have told less lies, Boris, and you might have kept the best job in the world.

That's it from me. Whatever you're up to, keep it uncensored. Good night.