Piers Morgan Uncensored - Piers Morgan Uncensored: Can we fix broken Britain?

Episode Date: August 23, 2022

Standing in for Piers, Jeremy Kyle looks at the rise in violent crime after a nine-year-old girl has died after being shot in Liverpool, and asks: can we restore order in lawless Britain? Jeremy speaks to an energy boss after new warnings that bill payers will face a catastrophic winter. After a record number of channel migrants enter the UK in a single day, Jeremy examines how we can fix the channel chaos. Jeremy analyses Meghan Markle's new podcast. Watch Piers Morgan Uncensored at 8pm on TalkTV on Sky 526, Virgin Media 627, Freeview 237 and Freesat 217. Listen on DAB+ and app.  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Tonight on Pierce Morgan uncensored with me Jeremy Kyle, knife attack, spike and a nine-year-old girl is shot dead in her own home. This is not the time for anyone who knows who is responsible for this shooting to remain tight-lived. Can we restore order in Lawless Britain? New warnings that Bill payers face a catastrophic winter. Energy bosses demand action now and we will speak to one of them live in the studio. Record 1,300 migrants reached Britain in a single day. How do we change the channel chaos? And Megan Markle's podcast finally launches with a swipe at the royal family. There's a shock and the patriarchy.

But will a big money moan fall on deaf ears? Hey, it's me. I'm just excited to be myself and talk and be unfiltered. Good evening, my friends, and a big, big welcome to Pierce Morgan, uncensored with me, Jeremy Now, crime is often used as a political football. It's because fear sells. And at heart, law and order is the most fundamental expectation people have of their government. Yes, people worry about their health and their access to basic services like energy.

But above all, we want to be kept safe. And when those things begin to break down, we rightly expect solutions. Well, it would be fair to say that they're breaking down in Britain right now. And tonight we want to ask the question, what are the solutions? Horrific cases like the fatal stabbing last week of 87-year-old Thomas O'Halloran, a busker simply out riding his mobility scooter, have made knife crime suddenly an urgent public concern again. And that's with good reason.

Knife assaults are up. If you look at this, they began rising in 2013. They peaked in 2018. Before it seemed like the situation was getting under control. But those numbers are now back to 2018 levels, and they are rising first. The police watchdog tells us that, Victims of robbery and theft are being failed.

Look at this. Just 6.3% of robbery offences now lead to a charge. And that number falls to 4.1% for victims of theft. So who's going to stop it? What is the answer? Look at this. The UK had 172,000 police officers when the Tories took power in 2010. Now austerity slashed their numbers to just 150,000 by 2019. And whilst Boris Johnson's government began to slowly reverse,

that we still have now fewer police in this country than 12 years ago. Twelve years ago, officers' numbers at 160,000. And we're also seeing more and more shocking videos like this. Watch this from Chelsea in broad daylight yesterday. That's a man and woman in broad daylight robbed, okay, in Chelsea, in central London. Now, if Britain feels less safe, this isn't scary to say that's because it is. And I have to say the latest crime to shock the nation everybody overnight.

A nine-year-old girl shot dead in Liverpool. Olivia Pratt Gable was killed yesterday and her mother and another man also wounded by gunfire. This is a nine-year-old kid, okay? As a father, I look at that and I just go, what is becoming of this country? Police, yes, are hunting the gunmen. This is what they had to say this afternoon.

This is not the time for anyone who knows. who is responsible for this shooting to remain tight-lipped. It is time for our communities to come together with us and make Merseyside a place where the use of guns on our streets is totally unacceptable. And those who use them are held to account. Joining me now is Pastor Lorraine Jones, whose son Duane Simpson was tragically stabbed to death in Brixton,

age just 20, as he did the honourable thing and tried to save someone else's life, Dr Victor Alisa, a former chief superintendent with the Met Police, and we'll be hearing from Bobby Cassanga, who spent eight years in prison for armed robbery, and I'm told us turned his life around, and he now runs a football club in Hackney, London, and works to keep young people away from crime.

Welcome, everybody. I just want to start, Lorraine, with you. Every day we hear of yet more tragedy. As a mother who lost her son, how did you feel when you heard about that nine-year-old girl last night? I'm still choked up. It's like we're experiencing a horror which we dreaded eight years ago. And the violence has escalated out of London across the country. an nine-year-old girl, innocent, shot in the chest.

If this isn't a wake-up call, for everybody to come together to deal with this, I don't know what it's going to take. I'm with you. And do you know what I find really frustrating? It's that we talk about it. Bobby, welcome to the show. I wanted to do this a little bit differently,

and I hope you understand why. I know you've turned your life around. But people watching this tonight, are going, apart from the fact that we can't afford to survive a lot of us right now, how the hell are we supposed to walk outside the front door for fear of what happened to that kid? Explain to me how you ended up being jailed for eight years for armed. How did you get into that situation, Bobby? Pay pressure, lack of opportunities, no positive role models, inequalities,

and ultimately, beyond all of that, is choice and greed. Because we can talk about all these things I've talked about, the lack of equality, lack of opportunities. But there's so many people came from the same environment as me who didn't choose the lifestyle I did. I like your honesty. Did you carry a gun or a knife? What did you carry?

We used to carry knives. Obviously, we've had guns and that before as well, but it wasn't anything that actually ever used. It was just in participation of the robberies at the time. And it comes down to deprivation as well, thinking that you need something that you actually don't. You see all these things, everyone else has and you believe you need them

but we didn't have the, we was naive, we didn't have the knowledge you know that you have to be patient. So that's why when we work about young people now, it's sort of about teaching them patience and just allowing and waiting for your time because everyone that was doing these things with me, I've got over 20 people who I can say have been killed that I knew personally.

I've got another over 20 who are doing life in prison. So although I've come out of that system, I've lost many friends along the way because of that same system. When you looked at that news last night of that nine-year-old, what was the first thing that went through your head? Absolutely shocking, because even in any form of criminality they take part in, everyone knows the kind of saying is that women and kids, it's a no-go area. So for someone to go and do that, it's absolutely disgusting.

When you look at her, look her in the eyes, her son was stabbed to death. You carried a knife. What do you say to her? I mean, I've met the lady many, many times, and we've spoken a few times, And it's the thing that where I know now, when I was younger, I was 14, 15, 16. It's a lot of that. Help me out. You're very honest because a lot of people go inequality or opportunity. Tell me if I'm wrong. Yeah.

So many of the kids who end up in Gans gravitate towards that unit because the family life isn't great. Are we right to blame parents in many instances or not? No, because my parents were both hardworking. They were strict with me. It all comes down to, again, choices and the fate of missing out. parents told me be home at 8 p.m. Your friends are hanging out. So the first thing you started doing, be disobedient to your parents.

But again, well, I'm going to hang around a bit later on because you're fearing, the missing out of the fun that everyone's having. What did they say when you went to prison for eight years? Oh, they was disappointed. They was absolutely disappointed. Gutted because I was in the top set at school. It wasn't like I was someone that didn't know what I was doing. I willingly took part in the activities that I did because I was greedy.

And I wanted to compete and keep up the Joneses. Everyone knows had nice things I wanted to be with them. My parents couldn't really afford it, but it's my choice. Victor, a former Met Police Superintendent, I speak to the police the whole time. Peter Blexie would be an example, and he says that police, men and women, don't have the time anymore to deal with petty crime

because they're social workers, their mental health operatives. That stat that crimes under £1,000 is something like just not being investigated. We have heard every plan and this great desire to reduce the levels of 9.000. crime, gun crime, just the lawlessness that we're talking about. What needs to happen? What is the solution in your mind? Well, I mean, you'll have politicians say that we can't police our way out of problems, but I think the police can play a really significant part.

You know, taking what we're talking about at the moment, the examples you've given, those people involve, whether it's the offender with the gun, where the nine-year-old girl was tragically shot, whether it's the 58-year-old pensioner who was stamped, those people are carrying weapons in public places. Now, how do we incentivise, prepare our police so they can do their work in public places? No, stabbing takes place in private,

you know, and the stabbing off Oxford Street, in the premises. You don't expect the police to be in there, but give the police the opportunity to the time to do the work on the streets. It's one of the things that actually the police are too busy. No disrespect to any of them. I think they're great,

but they're too busy filling out forms and ticking boxes on computers, rather walking the beat and find out intel. and doing the job that they used to go. Have we moved policing away from that common touch, and that's why we're missing out? That's the first question. Well, that is the first question.

There is bureaucracy. But again, I guess we can't put that away because police officers work independently. And when we want to hold them to account, the only way we can do that is through the records that they've made, and we can't move away from that. But what we can do is reduce that bureaucracy. We can actually give the police the time

to be able to do some of the work we want them to do on the street. And more importantly, you talk about the other issues, you describe them as social work issues. Well, there are other public agencies who should be doing that. You know, when I was a cop, I've retired five years. Prior to that, my officers would go and deal with someone who had a mental health problem that would spend two or three hours. Now they're spending six, seven hours.

Because the other public agencies are not being compelled to contribute to the work that needs doing. You can't blame the police for that because the police can't walk away. If they get called, they have to go and deal with it. Lorraine, one of the things that I think really strongly about, you might agree or disagree, is I don't believe that the punishments are strong enough. I look at what happened with acid. They gave life imprisonment to acid, and it is with absolutely a known fact that those crimes are going on. Do we need to be stronger on people who carry knives and guns?

Most definitely. My son's killer got 12 years. He done half of that. He's out enjoying his life. My son's gone for good, and we've been... affected for life. The sentencing needs to be revised and modernised. There's no way you can give a higher sentence for a robbery than for taking someone's life. My son's killer, he was sentenced for manslaughter because of how the criminal justice system label years and how it came about

that he's killed my son. It's outrageous. that area definitely needs looking at. It's not acceptable because more and more are carrying knives and guns and they're younger, younger. The youngest child I was called by a parent to report an incident at school was seven years old. He brought a scissors from home, a sharp one, and stabbed the other boy in the leg. Seven years old. Bobby, I agree with Lorraine about the criminal justice system.

I'm sorry if people don't like it. I think that the sentencing should be much stronger, and I really do believe that. As a kid who perpetrated towards a gang and was out on the street, did you think, A, you could get away with it, did you not consider the implications? And do you today, the man that has turned his life around

and runs this football club in Hackney and gets kids to understand that they need to change their lives, do you think if the punishments were greater, that would help the situation? I think there needs to be a balance. I think you can't write someone completely off. There's some people like myself who, where prison works and there's rehabilitation,

I went to prison and decided to get a degree while I was in there. There's others who won't learn, who come in, call back out again. So there needs to be a kind of a balance. Maybe someone gets given a very harsh sentence, and then you monitor them throughout this sentence. Are they doing the right courses? Are they doing the right things? Are they getting a degree?

But you'd understand, you know, her son's killer, got 12 years and he's out after six. What does that say? 100%. 100%. I get that. But I guess he was sentenced to manslaughter, so the court judged him to have committed manslaughter

compared to murder. Sorry, he was out, and then he was recalled back after six years. So like what you're saying, there needs to be some restorative justice. We can't just put him in prison and leave him there. They're learning all sorts in there, and they're coming out, raving mad. I don't know if this man that has shot and killed this child

has re-offended. There needs to be resorted. restorative justice. Do you agree with that quickly, Victor, and I've got to finish? Yeah, absolutely. It needs to be a balance, but we need to be very clear. For those people that, you know, Bobby's talking about, those people who will not respond to the imprisonment,

then we need to throw the book at them. But we need to be clear. There are some people that are just so bad, prison is the only thing for them. We also need there are people like Bobby who will respond, you know, to a positive input in prison and come out a very different person. Guys, fantastic. Bobby, thank you.

Victor, thank you. And Lorraine Jones, thank you very much. Now, yesterday I told you that Tyson Fury would be joining us on the show today, following the tragic death of his cousin, Rico Burton, who was stabbed to death in Manchester at the weekend. Tyson got in touch with the show this morning to say the situation is so raw, he and his family, utterly devastated by the loss, and he didn't feel able to come on tonight. We obviously send Tyson and the family our deep with sympathies and hope very much to have him back on Uncensored soon when he is ready.

That's an open, open offer. Now, next on Uncensored. Utilitar energy boss, Bill Bullen, is here as exports warn that bills could hit. Ready for this? Six and a half grand next year. Add to that, Grace Blakely and Richard Tice, standing by to unpack everything that Bullen has to say about rising prices. We're coming right back and through. This is uncensored.

Welcome back to Unsensored now. In just a moment, I'll talk to the managing director of Utiliter Energy, who's been brave enough to appear here tonight as rising energy bills continue to heat, misery on struggling families. It's Friday that off-Gem make that announcement, apparently six and a half thousand pounds, which is going to destroy people's lives. But first, Justice, John O'S today, I'm joined by

socialist author Grace Blately and leader of the Reform Party, Richard Tice, free from swimming in the ocean somewhere abroad this morning. Guys, on a serious note, you heard me say about Tyson Fury. He'd hoped to be here tonight to talk about that tragic stabbing of his cousin. He will be later in the week, fingers

crossed. It's too raw. You saw that first section. Grace, I almost feel like politics is irrelevant. All I hear about is, I mean, that story last night of that nine-year-old, what are the solutions? Police apparently with their arms behind their backs because they're too busy dealing with mental health issues, less officers on the beat.

Honestly, you look at it and you despair, don't you? I mean, I think if we're looking at this from a kind of, you know, more objective perspective, if you look at the statistics, there's a tiny number of people who show up across all our social services. from looked after children, all sorts of institutional care settings, to the criminal justice system, to all parts of the social care system, to the healthcare system.

They end up kind of being in repeated contact with authorities over and over again, and generally they end up being shunted from one place to another because they're never given the right support. So 25% of the prison population was at some point in institutional care, looked after children. And 25% of looked after children end up homeless. So these are the people who are taking up a lot of these resources, have severe mental health problems, drug abuse problems, no real family to support them.

They need early intervention and support. What sort of early intervention support? So, you know, there's lots of proof that if you provide, say, kind of therapeutic, particular therapeutic strategies to kids in these looked-after settings in the criminal justice system at school, very early on, it changes everything. But it requires money. And that's what people don't want to do. We've seen big cuts to children, social care, to all of our children's social services,

which is, I think, actually a big part of why this is happening. Richard, I actually genuinely say that, Grace. I get the feeling that criminals think the police have given up. You talk about the charge rate. I get the feeling that the police are overrun and can't make the decisions they want to. I gave an example to those three people about acid attacks. Now you get life, that's dropped. Do we need to be stronger or do we need to be educating?

Is it a combination about it? What's your solution? My sense is, Grace is right about all those stats. And that's all well and good. But the reality is that people who are committing crimes, from the lowest level to the most horrific murder that we've just heard about, is that people don't fear the consequences. There's no respect for law and order. There's no fear that they're going to be caught.

We know that the charge rate has collapsed. It's now about 5% of all crimes. So people are quite clearly saying. And you see it from mobs marauding in McDonald's. You see it in people being mugged on the streets of Central London. You saw that video yesterday in Chelsea? No one fears the consequences of being caught. and if they're caught, when are they going to get charged?

Years down the track during which time they've committed other crimes. It needs a wholesale rethink. And it's just not good enough. Who's been in charge for the 12 years? For the last 12 years. A party that's supposed to be the party of law and order. They're a catastrophe. Utter, utter failure.

This is, I mean, I spoke to someone the other day who says literally they're terrified of walking out the front door here in London. It's lawless. It's getting far worse. and there needs to be a wholesale change, what's actually got to happen is people have got to be charged, they've got to be caught, they've got to be charged instantly, and put through the system instantly.

And when you get 12 years, that doesn't mean six years, Jeremy. It means 12 years. I mean, that woman, I absolutely agree with you, right? I also believe that we should be stronger. I also believe people, criminals, are not concerned. 12 years for her son stabbed to death, and he's out in six years. You won't tell me that that kid would have been different

if he'd been Molly cuddled or told him. he was going to be right. You saw the raw emotion in that woman. The criminal justice system needs yanking up, doesn't it? Yeah, I mean, I don't think it's about mollycoddling people. I think it's about changing people's... Yeah, yeah, I get that. All right, wrong words, wrong words, but you know what I mean? Obviously, case by case, you know,

you can't go and say this particular case should have been, had a different setting that's to be judged within the criminal justice system. Incidentally, by the way, we've got a lot of barristers at the moment currently on strike because that has broken down. We haven't got any funding going into... All of these systems are breaking down, and that's generating this problem.

Every bit is breaking down, and therefore the criminals have no respect for the consequences because there won't be any consequences. I think that, you know, there's an issue here, which is that you have kind of two types of criminals, right? You have psychopaths who don't fear the consequences anyway, because they don't fear anything. They have no fear, they have no shame, whatever. They're always going to bump up against these systems, and they need to be treated. But that's tiny. But, well, it is relatively small.

But then you have a lot of other people who just kind of, you know, and you see this, I have friends who are teachers who work in social care, who end up having these kids, very, very young, just brought into gangs, brought into drugs, brought into all of these things. And if we want to actually change things, that's the point of which we need to be intervening. I think we all agree in essence,

but again, what are those solutions? It's across the board, maybe stronger sentences, maybe stronger criminal justice, certainly education. Can I bring... Sorry, very quickly. You said earlier, and you've got to get the bobbies back on the beat, on the streets, understand their communities, understanding the wrongness and the right ones. Yesterday we talked about broken brick

and today we're talking about lawless Britain. One wonders what the hell's next. I'm delighted to welcome now. Utiliter CEO, Bill Bullen, who joined us. Three days before OffGem announces they believe yet another unbelievable rise. They're saying that it could be that our gas electricity bills

reach six and a half thousand pounds. Bill, I appreciate you joining us. You're here to talk about something that you've created or are talking about that's going to help your customers. Is that right? Yeah. So today we've launched a new initiative with a partner, Iceland. I think the first of its kind is a joint initiative between a high street supermarket and

the energy utility company, which is aimed at, you know, helping, genuinely helping to cut energy, consumers energy bills. Okay. Let me try this differently. and I don't mean this in a disrespectful way because you've come on. Why don't you actually concentrate on instead of some sort of PR exercise?

The fact is, let me give some facts. Companies House profits for your business in March 2021 was sadly down for us. We don't go there again. What? We spoke only last week about this issue and you were incorrectly stating a profit figure for my business. 813 million pounds.

That's our turnover. All I'm saying is, right, You have 4%, 800,000 customers. Do you not think in this current situation? You're honest enough to come on, and I appreciate it. Do you not think your customers are crying out for energy companies to actually try and make their lives manageable? Because without exaggerating it, Bill,

there are people who are going to go to the wall all across the United Kingdom, and you are part of the issue. Look, absolutely. I understand that we've got a call. centre every day that is taking thousands of calls from customers who are really struggling to pay their bills. You know, don't think for one minute we have not been passing that message on to government and to regulators. But you're still in business. So morally it's great, but you're still charging your customers and making whatever you deny profits for your business while good, honest

people are struggling to pay their bills. Jeremy, you've got to understand that the retail operations in the UK energy market supplying gas and electricity to residential customers after price capping came in have been making no profit at all. Yeah. Okay, that is a fact. Go and look at company's house, look at the reporting accounts, genuinely look at the report and accounts with somebody that understands how to read a set of financial statements,

and you will see that they've not been profitable. Now, some people further up the chain are making profits. No question about that. Of course, people pumping gas out of the North Sea. are going to be making much more money. But retail organisations that are controlled by the price cap are not making profits at the moment. So are you saying that you haven't made any profit whatsoever recently?

You're, you know, EBITDA, nothing. Look at the bottom line is negative. Nothing. Negative. So you've not just reached anything to shareholders either. The evidence is there, guys. I'm not, you know, I wouldn't be sitting here. You've not given a dividend at all recently.

Correct. Correct. Several years, many years. I can't remember the last time we paid a dividend. The retail suppliers, like Bill's company, they're not making any money. Well, that's not true of all of them. Hang on. That is definitely not true of all of them.

30 of them went bust last year. The profits, the extreme profits, are being made by the producers of energy. That is true. The wind farms, the gas companies, the power plants. But his companies and companies are still in business. They're part of the chain, aren't they're on? Someone's got to provide the service. Okay.

And the majority of them are making, if any margin at all, it's the producer of it. The truth is, though, this is not. This is much bigger. It is true. The big five energy companies, the big six, depending on how you want to categorise it, all of them made fairly good profits. Now, of course, Shell and BP made an exorbitately large profit. They made it by digging it out of the ground or out of the North Sea or the wind turbines.

They're making windfall profits. All right, let's make it, let's bring Bill back in. Let's be perfectly honest, Bill. You've stuck your head above the parapet, and for that, I absolutely respect you. And we talk about the big companies like BP and, Shell who are making all the money. And maybe it's wrong to pile on to you because you're a retailer. But I'm going to ask you something, just as an everyday person, right?

Across the United Kingdom, off Gem on Friday, might announce it at six and a half grand. Do you understand that even being associated with the business you're going to be tainted? Do you understand? To politicians, do energy companies, I'm not bothered about, oh, Shell last year didn't make any money. It is utterly disgusting and disgraceful for massive companies in energy to pump. out profits of 20 billion, right? Take massive dividends and expect

everyday people who, this is what I want to say, they are not going to be able to pay. They're not. You're absolutely right, Jeremy, I completely understand that people aren't going to be able to pay, and that's one of the reasons why we've said to, you know, the government and to the regulator,

you know, we really cannot go ahead with this announcement on Friday, right? That's our view. We'll get to a point on Friday, we're expecting a price increase to about three and a half thousand To put that in perspective, that's about a third of the national pension. Does it morally, can I ask you a question, Bill, because it's actually good enough to come on? Does it morally sit badly with you?

Honest question. Does it morally upset you? You know, I've been arguing this, and I'm continuing to argue. I'm trying to argue it now that we need to have a price freeze because we cannot keep expecting. I mean, ultimately, if you're going to have a price. Not just residential customers, but business customers. If you're going to be regulating the companies, there's a price freeze. heavily. If you're really not

making any profit, right, which means that it's going to be hard of you to invest, why are these private companies to begin with? You know, the whole reason that these were supposed to be privatised was so that they would have all this profit, that would go back into investment, it would give us a more efficient system. That's not happening. We're in a global energy war.

This is going to last... We're in a global energy war. Everybody's scrabbling for energy. This is going to last three to five years and the government needs to adopt a warlike wartime solution. Nobody is thinking... Public ownership. And I'm going to be releasing on Thursday a big serious plan.

This is way bigger, way more terrifying than anybody realizes. Can I just ask all three of you? Can I just ask all three of you? Do you all share my horror publicly for people who are really struggling when they hear that Shell and BP have 20 billion pounds with a profit? Do you understand that the people of the United Kingdom will go, well, hold on a minute. You're making those profits and our bills are going up,

but we're struggling and the fat cats are getting richer. And I'm not usually like this. But why doesn't anybody listen? Because there's a vacuum of leadership because they're trying to find a new prime minister. We've got no government and we've got the greatest gravest, economic and energy crisis

any of us have ever seen in our lifetimes. And it's only going to get worse as climate breakdown continues as well. Very quickly. Who's to blame? Well, had we decarbonized 10, 20 years ago, we wouldn't be dependent on Russia of an authoritarian regime and we wouldn't be facing this deep energy crisis.

Bill, final word from you. Really appreciate you being on. What are you so, pal? As I've said already, this problem has been accelerating away. We've got this vacuum of leadership at the moment, which is the worst time in the world for it to happen. But we now need to just announce a freezing the price gap and deal with this problem.

By getting ahead of it and stop chasing it, that's absolutely clear in my mind what we need to do. Bill, really appreciate it, pal. Sorry if I misquoted. I appreciate you being on Utiliter CEO. Thank you to Richard Tice. Thank you to Grace Blatley. Very, very feisty.

Right next on uncensored. Grace shouldn't stay for this. Almost 1,300 migrants crossed the English Channel in small boats yesterday, setting another appalling new record. The question everyone's asking, and they've been asking it for months, is what are we going to do about it? We'll discuss that. Next, we're coming back in three. Welcome back to uncensored. Now, almost 1,300 migrants crossed the channel in small boats on Monday, setting another unwanted record for crossings in a single day. These are the latest pictures from Dover, as yet more people undertake the perilous journey to Britain. More than 22,000 have done so this year.

That's almost double last year's figures. Now, the number of migrants sent to Rwanda on the government's headline-grabbing deterrent policy is so far a big zero. But with the Royal Navy backing out of patrols, France, of course, unwilling or unable to stem the tide, and people smugglers clearly undaunted, how do we take back control of Britain's borders?

He's one of the most important things to people, apart from everything else that's going on. Joining me now is former international border control advisor, Henry Bolton, and Director of Policy and Advocacy at the Freedom from Torture, Steve Croshaw. Thank you both for joining me. Henry, a bit like lawless Britain. Mm-hmm, and there's a connection. The migrant problem is something that we see and hear about daily, right?

we hear that France, you know, take more. We see these people being smuggled in boats, some of them losing their lives. We seem incapable, incapable as a nation of getting it right. What needs to be done? I think the first thing is we need to recognise that there is a lack of knowledge and expertise in the home office and across government to be able to come up with an appropriate solution. What we have is a government here that is trying to hit headline issues. It's not actually trying to deliver a positive operational effect on the ground.

What needs to happen is there needs to be a full strategic framework created cross-government, all of the different agencies. There need to be clear objectives, strategic objectives and clear unity of effort. There's not the leadership there to do it, first off. That needs to include diplomatic effort to enter British tactical officers and intelligence officers on the ground along those routes to work with local law enforcement. It's been done. 2001 to 2006 we were doing it. I was involved in it in the Balkans. We went out there with local law enforcement using UK intelligence and we kicked indoors, literally kicked indoors.

British officers working with local law enforcement. And we used the foreign aid budget to fund that. So that's the disruption. Let's interrupt that flow. Because once these people, and if you look at migrants, they're not just migrants, they are a commodity for the criminal people smuggler as well. Absolutely. And you get them to the, the, the, the, North French Channel coast, and they will find a way across. There's no real way back for them. And there are all sorts of things that you've got to unpack on the way, such as why have we got an increase in the number of Albanians and so on, and the feed-through, in that sense, to organise crime back here in the UK.

But we've got narcotics coming across the channel as well. There's an explosion in cocaine and opiates in the UK. That's related to this too. Back here, we've got a mess in the channel. We've got eight different government agencies with patrol boats in the channel. Compare that to the US coast. God, one agency. Are we, I haven't got a lot of time and I'd love to have more.

Steve, I'll bring you in. This is one of the things that frustrates British people so much. And anybody who seems to say, you know, this is distrapt, but it's dreadful and it should change. They're accused of not understanding. There are people who suffer, but it would be fair to say as well, this is a good old place to come, Blighty, isn't it, to be fair? It's a place which is certainly better from where they're fleeing from. They're fleeing from Syria, from Afghanistan.

But a lot of them are fleeing from France. This is the bit I don't understand. They're not fleeing from France. Why don't they stay in France? Why is it great Britain always explain that? But the same argument, of course, could be made of absolutely. Anyway, the French could say they shouldn't be staying here. They should be in Germany.

The Germans could say they should be in Greece. But do you understand people watching this? People will always stay fairly close. So with Ukraine now, many, many millions are in Poland. Many more than will ever come here. But far more in Germany than are here, less than in Poland. And that's what I think we need to have that sense of all sharing that response. that responsibility.

And my colleague, for example, from torture, he was a torturer's of either himself, arrived in his country in what this government called illegally, but in other words, he didn't have the visa before arriving. You know, just a couple of years ago, he received his MBE for the Queen for the amazing things he's done for this country.

And that's the way around if we can change that mindset. I absolutely agree. And just a couple of things I'd like to add. I think that all everybody joining in is never going to work since we left the European Union. I think we're being punished, whether people like that opinion or not. But there are genuine people.

This country proved during the Ukraine crisis what it could do. But I repeat the question. Nobody's answered my question. Do you understand British people's frustration? Because some of these people, okay, are taking advantage. Do you agree with that? I understand the perception of that is very strong. I also understand it was interesting hearing Henry's talking about the government getting the headlines.

I think that's right. They want that perception of that. The reality is that when things have gone through the overwhelming majority, are in fact found to be genuine asylum seekers, the kind of people who come through the doors have been from torture, having suffered so much. At the moment, the burden of proof is so poor in terms of proving or even providing any evidence whatsoever

that you might, basically all you have to do is say, I will be persecuted if I go back. And that's a lot of the case. Now, we've got the Albanians, you know, they are the largest single nationality at the moment crossing. Now, the fact is, I was an advisor to the Albanian Prime Minister's office. I fought organised crime on the ground in that area of the Balkans,

in Albania, northern Macedonia and Kosovo. And the fact is that there is no risk in Albania. There is surely an economic problem, but these people are allowed into the European Union on a 90 days without a visa. That gets them to the North French coast. Then they've got to make the jump across here. We do take their findings.

The great majority of people who've taken very long, very, very dangerous journeys. But you keep saying the great majority of people, There are plenty of examples of people who are coming to this country, tearing up whatever paper they have and disappearing. I want to ask you this. Nobody's answered this. In the middle of this cost of living crisis,

in the middle of lawless Britain, the men and women up and down this country who go, why is England so attractive? Because we do so much. Should we not, whether this is met with complete truth? Do you understand people thinking, well, actually, I should be getting more because I've been here all my life.

I've paid in, and it's frustrating. On a human level, I understand that, but I also understand that when people meet the people who've come, they go, well, you deserve and you deserve when it's turned into individuals. The government is great at making it not being about the individual. The government's first duty is to its own people. The government's first duty is to its own people. Of course I understand it. And I have been trying for three years to get into the home office to talk to them about how to solve this. I've helped 14 countries to solve similar problems. I can't speak to my own government, although they were paying me when I was helping other governments. So there is a real problem here. Yes, we have to solve it with a humanitarian mind. Yeah, I agree. No, we cannot turn away people who are absolutely at risk. But the fact is that we have got a large proportion of the people coming across the channel, not only in boats, but as we now know in the back of trucks as well, who are, quite frankly, economic migrants who have travelled through the European Union

because we are an attractive destination. If you were to try to stop, for example, tourists going to a particular destination, what you would try to do is make the journey there less attractive, the destination itself. And the place they get to to, let's attractive. Exactly. And try to close down the people who are moving, the travel agency. I completely agree. Final word, Steve. I get where Henry's come from.

I also get, but I do think, I try and do it from the angle of what people are thinking. I do think we should obviously look after people who come from war-torn zones, as we've proven. But you have not acknowledged what he and I have said. There are a lot of economic migrants who make it to this country which is more attractive

than anywhere else. But I did say that the overwhelming majority of those who try, who seek asylum are actually getting it. So the public narrative that the government gives. You're absolutely right. The polling shows clearly Britons want to help those who have been through terrible things. The way the government spins it and it really is spin, it simply absolutely goes against the reality, spins it as though everyone is trying to game the system. And they create the narrative day after day, month off the night. I think we need a real mindset. We're too willing to grant asylum. I don't think any of my colleagues who have been through

sometimes for years waiting for decisions. Can I just... I just think any of them could possibly agree with that. Well, listen, and that's... And with the greatest of respect, that's what a democracy and debate is about. But yet again, as I said at the beginning of the show, we all know there's a problem.

What is the damn solution? Is it what you say? Is it what you say? Make your mind's up at home right next. Son, Uncensor. Thank you, Henry. Thank you very much. Steve. After almost two years, an 18 million quid. Be decided, be excited, my friends.

Megan Markle releases her first podcast on Spotify. Yippee. Our Meg takes another swipe at the Role family and complains about being called ambitious. Has she been treated unfairly? Yeah, I can't wait for this. We're back in three. Welcome back, so note to self, try and be balanced. Here we go. Now, privacy-loving Harry and Meghan have kept a remarkably low profile

since eloping to California to escape the media spotlight. That is, of course, if you excuse the book deals, the Silicon Valley start-ups, the $100 million deal were Netflix, and the regular trips to Europe. We've barely seen or heard. from them at all until now. Because my friends are mere 20 months

since pocketing 18 million quid from Spotify, yeah, I know you can't pay your bills. The first episode of Megan's not at all anticipated podcast series, Archetypes was released today and in a rare moment of introspection, Megan says that marrying Prince Harry made her feel the negative connotation

of the word ambition. Whatever that means. She also compares notes on her shared roots with tennis star, Serena Williams. If you must have a listen. So I don't ever ever, remember personally feeling the negative connotation behind the word ambitious until I started dating my now husband. And apparently ambition is a terrible, terrible thing. For a woman, that is,

according to some. This morning, I was saying to Harry, I said, do you remember one of those, I'm the one for the record that grew up? When they said, Harry's girl is straight out of Compton, and I was like, are they talking about Serena? I'm not. not from, you know, exactly. You love a redhead. I'm like, I'm not from Compton. I've never lived in Compton. My mom doesn't live in Compton. But by the way, what's wrong with Compton? My girl,

Serena's from there. I know. Like, wait a minute. Now to discuss this, I'm joined by playwright and author Bonnie Gurren. Socialite and Aristot Lady Victoria Harvey. Let's start in California. Victoria, welcome the show. Is this a dig to the royal

family saying marrying Harry, what was it, created negative connotation? of her ambition? What does she mean? I mean, yes, she is definitely playing that card again and opening up that door again to possibly be talking more about the royal family and her personal experiences. I think she just likes to blame other people and it's this whole sort of woke victim playing card

that she does a lot, which she then puts on to, you know, Serena during this. I don't know. I find that the whole interview, she's almost trying to mirror Oprah in certain ways, the way she talks to her. It's a little condescending, especially when she talks about her route.

Bonnie, I know you're going to disagree violently. It's just, it's all about victimhood. See, this is what I thought, right? I absolutely supported them in saying, I don't want to be in the media spotlight, I want to go and live my life. But when you land and you sign $118 million deal away,

And then is she lucky. I mean, that's incredible. You should be celebrating this. Why are you sitting and complaining about it? It's a good thing. You're not even letting me speak. It might be a good thing, but she's making money from the very thing that she said forced her out of this country. And then she's using the royal family to slag them off to make the money and the people appreciate it.

If we don't listen to it, we won't hear it, will we? You're promoting her. Very true point. Okay. Very true. Next. Yeah, very true. Do you think she's been unfairly treated by the royal family?

I don't know. I have no idea. Can I say something like that? I have no idea. And you don't either. Do you think she had a plan all along, Bonnie? A plan to do what? Take Prince Harry from the arms of the royal family, rise from being a Zed list celebrity to a lot more. Do you think she planned the whole thing in her head? Well, how insulting to Harry? I'm just... Very good point. I mean, how insulting? I mean, seriously, this is a grown man. He fell in love with her, obviously. You fell in love with your wife? I did. Absolutely. Okay. There you. But you don't think there's anything about Megan that is,

and I think a lot of people in this country feel this. They feel, I actually think people in this country were very excited. And then they felt let down. Let down by them both. Do you understand that? No, I don't feel late. I mean, first of all, she's a grown woman. She was from, she's a California.

And then Lady Victoria knows California. She acted exactly as she should act. So you're not surprised, but what happened? What happened? In terms of the fact that they quit the royal family and went to America. Well, she's a grown-up. And they should have actually allowed her to do her thing. And as you said, she was a very good thing on paper.

And in fact, for this country and for the royal family. It was a clue. Listen, the beauty of life is, I don't actually agree with that at all. But there you go. Lady Victoria, what do you say? Is it all about victimhood? What's going on? No, I mean, like, I kind of agree with Bonnie that I think, I mean,

I think it was quite a calculated move with Megan. and I think she, you know, set her sights on Harry from the beginning. He was very vulnerable, you know, from his childhood. And she latched on to that. Go jump in. I mean, Victoria, look, no, with respect, with respect. We do know everything about Harry, you know, because he's been a public figure. But how can we sit here and psychoanalyze this guy?

I mean, that's wrong. That's literally wrong. No, but I just thought, I think that that is the way he comes across. Oh, but that's not the thing. the same thing as who he is. You know, we can't do that to people. But her personality is very overpowering. Oh, come on.

Don't do that to him. This guy has a grown up. He knows what he's doing. He looks like a weakling since he's been with her. He was a proper man. All right, let's make it more simple. I haven't got a lot of time. I'd love to have more.

Bonnie, do you understand people in this country's frustration with Megan Markle because there is huge frustration? They'd be frustrated. They'd be glad she wasn't French. That's not answering the question again, is it? No, I think there is an element of, in this country who don't actually like foreigners, even though, even though the royal family is German.

Completely agree. Final word from you, Victoria. What do you say? I haven't got long? The final thing that I want to say about her podcast. Good. That about sums it up. I won't be listening.

You might listen. Everybody, everybody has an opinion about Harry and Megan and they are entitled to that opinion. Thank you to Bonnie. Thank you to Lady Victoria. Will I be watching or listening to a podcast? No, will you? I don't listen to anybody's podcast. Brilliant, I love her.

Right, that is it from me. What a happy lady you are. That's it from me. Don't forget what peers always says. Whatever you're up to, make sure you keep it uncensored. That's it for tonight. See you soon. Tera!