Piers Morgan Uncensored - Piers Morgan Uncensored: Dame Joan Collins

Episode Date: May 26, 2022

Tonight, Piers Morgan is joined by the iconic English actress, author and columnist, Dame Joan Henrietta Collins DBE. This episode also asks if it is time to stop taking the knee. Watch Piers Morgan Uncensored at 8pm on TalkTV on Sky 526, Virgin Media 627, Freeview 237 and Freesat 217. Listen on DAB+ and app. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Good evening, everyone. I'm Joan Collins, and I am going to be completely uncensored tonight. Giles, I'll have my drink now. So, cheers. Roll the titles. Good evening. I'm Pierce Morgan uncensored. Tonight, Tory MPs begin to turn on Boris Johnson. Is it time to stop taking the knee? We'll debate that.

And the legendary Dame Joan Collins is here live and unleashed. I'm already feeling nervous. But first, it's my brain. We're now just a week away from the Queen's Platinum Jubilee, a four-day celebration of Britain's greatest ever monarch and her 70 glorious years on the throne. I'm genuinely excited about this amid all the hideously depressing news at the moment, war, school shootings, economic crisis. This is a chance for my country to put a smile on the world's face by doing what we do best. Pomp, pageantry and one hell of a party. It's also time to pay tribute to a remarkable 96-year-old woman who is always represented at the very best of British values, dignity.

humility, hard work, stoicism, selfless duty, and the stiff upper lip. Unfortunately, jetting in next week are a royal couple who represent the complete opposite. The Duke and Duchess of Sussex, the southern England county that I come from, incidentally, where they spent precisely three hours, are a pair of undignified, whining, hypocritical, virtue-signling, selfish waste rules. The privacy-demanding poverty-preaching carbon-conscious couple will fly 5,000 miles, spewing 1.5 metric tons of CO2 emissions from their $11 million mansion in California,

accompanied, of course, by the Netflix documentary camera crew, current recording their every move for a Kardashian-style reality show. The emissions of most concerned to me, however, are the noxious, toxic fumes they will inevitably emit from the moment they land here and try to make the Jubilee all about themselves. Banished from the Buckingham Palace balcony

for the trooping of the color opening celebrations next Thursday, it's not being reported. They will nevertheless be with, the Queen at a Thanksgiving service in St Paul's Cathedral on Friday, billed as the biggest royal gathering since their wedding. And I'm already shuddering at the thought of how this fame-hungry duo will hijack the headlines from the woman who should be getting them purely to cement their rival royal brand and satisfy, of course, their Netflix paymasters.

The only place I want to see them beside the Queen in public is at Madam Tussows. Frankly, I'm also bemused they're flying here at all, given that Megan's father, Thomas, lies seriously ill in hospital after suffering a stroke. Megan and Harry loved to preach about compassion, yet they show none of it to their own families. If they had an ounce of real compassion, they'd cancel their trip to the Jubilee and visit Thomas Markle in hospital.

That would be the first time, incredibly, that Harry would have ever met his father-in-law. But that would also mean missing the chance to further exploit their royal status for big bucks. That ain't going to happen. In a blazing protest against cancelled culture, best-selling author and feminist firebrand, Margaret Atwood,

a one-of-the-kind burn-proof copy of her book The Handmaid's Tale, which is auctioning to promote free expression. Besides being a very clever publicity stunt, she makes a very good point. It's a scary moment in our cultural evolution. With people lining up to cancel books, they consider problematic. Where have we seen this before?

Oh, yes, Nazi Germany. This is what happens when societies go fascist. Schools in the US have desheld books like of mice of men and the adventures of Huckleberry Finn over apparent racism concerns and the UK universities of Acts Shakespeare and attempts to decolonise creative writing. We've even seen classics like to kill a Mockenberg

sidelined for promoting a white saviour narrative. But it was published in 1937. Of course it's dated. These are not manuals in how we ought to think now. There works of literature that reflect the times in which they're written. It teaches jobs to provide context and inspire debate, not indoctrinate our kids by means. teaching today's wonky woke values, because guess what? As Ricky Jervais always tries to tell them,

those values today will soon be outdated too. Well, Catherine Berbilsing, who's a prominent head teacher at a school in London, has spoken out to say she's worried that some classics will disappear altogether. Eventually, she says, we will do away with cultural icons like Shakespeare. I do think that dead white men are really important. Now, she's not against adding more black female authors to the curriculum, as she points out she is a black woman. But she thinks there's still a lot to learn from dead white men. And she's right. Who wouldn't want our children to bask in the beautiful words of these literary giants? If music be the food of love, play on. Shakespeare, of course. It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, the great Charles Dickens. And the world's

gone nuts. I think you'll all agree, a classic. It's just a not actually dead yet. She was a face of US daytime television for almost 20 years and also the self-appointed face of the hashtag Be Kind movement, busy work. But then having two faces has never been a problem. for Ellen DeGeneres, his final show airs in America today. Here she is at her most insufferable. Thank you for being here. You're here on a special day. I'll tell you that today, I don't know if you know this,

but it's World Kindness Day. Since I preach kindness every day, this is a big one for me. This is like my Super Bowl or my World Series or my... I don't know any of the sports, that's all. Well, Ellen's show is built as an oasis of calm and kindness, where celebrities were her best friends, a lavish donation. transformed the lives of the most deserving in society. It even had a logo reading,

Be kind to each other. The only problem was that behind the scenes, she was just about the least kind person in the history of global television. Staff reportedly endured an endless, toxic, bullying, culture of discrimination and sexual harassment for which she eventually issued a grovelling on-air apology. This tweet from the archives

aged about as well as an open yogurt in the desert. I made one of my employees cry like a baby on today's show. Honestly, it felt good. She might have been joking, but that's exactly what was going on behind the scenes. So goodbye and good ridden, sell him, because like so many woke celebrities, you're a complete fraud. Here we're on Sensor. We'd have to support but little guy. The people who slog and toil through every hardship to keep the world spinning. And tonight I want to pay tribute to the people who do the very worst jobs in the world.

There are quite a few candidates. The cow backside inspector, for example. Or Boris Johnson's secretary for defending the indefensible, Mr. Chaps. It could be the cleaner of his warehouse. But we do have a late entry and I think a definite winner. How about being the other half to the world's worst celebrity narcissist? Madonna, age 63, is reportedly auditioning for a new boy toy after splitting from her 28-year-old backing dancer lover,

presumably because he's now far too old. A source close to the cringedging singer said the thought of grey hair or wrinkles is a massive turn-off. What she wants is a hard-bodied hot guy in his late 20s. Right. But has anyone given any thought to what that poor guy is going to have to deal with. Whoever that poor guy turns out to me,

I wish him all the very best of luck because he's going to need it. Well, some desperately sad, breaking news now. Irma Garcia was one of the two teachers killed alongside 19 children in the horrific Texas school shooting on Tuesday. Today, her husband, Joe Garcia, has died of a reported heart attack.

They were high school sweethearts. They were married for 24 years and they have four children, two boys and two girls, ranging from 12 to 23. Irma's nephew, John Martinez, tweeted to say, Joe Garcia has passed away due to grief. I truly am at a loss for words for how we're all feeling. Please pray for our family. God have mercy on us.

This isn't easy. Just unbelievably sad to go with the already unbelievable sadness of what happened. Well, next to night, four more conservative MPs have called for Prime Minister Boris Johnson to quit after the damning report into illegal lockdown parties in Downing Street. But joining me now is talking to these political editor, Kate McCann. Kate, you're in the corridors of power and probably a hotbed of seething gossip right now. It doesn't actually quite let seething, just you at a moment. But what is going on?

Because there's been a steady trickle of Tory MPs today chucking Boris under the bus. Is it going to build momentum-miss? Could it get to the 54 required to put in letters to call a leadership contest? Well, Piers, I think the Prime Minister really does have to be quite worried about what you call a steady trickle because it's the quiet ones that we're starting to hear from. And that's always a worrying point in time when you start to hear from MPs, who, let's be honest, some of us may need to do a quick Google until we can recognise. And I have to tell you, in the last half an hour, we've got a new one to add to that list of the four that you mentioned

that have put themselves forward today to criticise Boris Johnson. That's Philip Dunn. Now, he hasn't quite said that he's put his letter in yet, but he has said that the Prime Minister has lost the benefit of the doubt after that Partygate revelation and the report that we saw yesterday. And you are so right, Peers, it is a real problem for Boris Johnson because while he does have to reach that number of 54,

it's not just the ones that we're hearing from in public. It's the people behind the scenes. Those Tories who've been pretty steadfast who are quite quiet, they might not be those household names, who are starting to question whether he's the right man for the job. Particularly, I have to say, after the meeting that Boris Johnson held yesterday with his MPs, the 1922 committee, always very rowdy, lots of banging on desk to show the party is well behind him. But they might have laughed at his jokes, and he told a couple of pretty close to the bone ones,

one about Churchill being drunk in number 10 and one about tractor pornography. They laughed in public, but behind the scenes, they're not laughing. They are uncomfortable. They are not happy. And you mentioned how quiet it is here. It would usually be busier than this in central lobby, but we are in recess. And that's a really difficult time for Boris Johnson, because all the MPs have gone to their constituencies.

Will they come back, having had their hearts grow fonder? Or will they have cemented their opinion on him? And could we see more letters? The question he doesn't yet know the answer to. Yeah, it's a fascinating time. And I think the calculation the Tory MPs will be making is if they are going to do him in, when is the right time to do it? Because they won't want to go for a contest that Boris then wins,

because that would mean he'd lead them into the next election. So it's the old ruthless game of quiet chess going on. Kate, thank you very much indeed. Appreciate it. Well, I'm joined now by Conservative commentator Esther Cracko, along with comedian and feminist activist Kate Smirthwa. Well, welcome to both of you. This situation with Boris Johnson, Kate, I mean, what's your view about Partygate?

For everyone who says, as I believe, is absolutely disgraceful what was going on there. and a smack in my teeth to all the families who made so much sacrifice. There are other people, my sons and others, you know, especially your younger generation. You go, for God's sake, it was just a few parties. Get on with it.

We're in an economic crisis. There's war or a mash shootings. Get a grip, all of you. Well, I mean, first of all, you're right, there's all these important situations going on. And the first thing I would quite like in those circumstances is for the Prime Minister to sober up so that he can actually deal with those circumstances.

I was horrified not just by the law-breaking, which was horrifying, and the disregard for the well-being. of people around the country who were missing out on family events and really life-changing moments, but also the fact that he was supposed to be sorting out the biggest crisis this country has faced for decades. And it seems like instead, they were singing karaoke and handing out cake and drinking drinks.

Right. And I thought, Esther. I wouldn't get my job done if I behaved like that. Right. And I think the thing they got to me, Esther, was this line he said about, he felt it was his duty to go to these massive parties on a Friday to say goodbye to his start.

who were leaving. A duty, I mean, this was a duty that he denied other people not to go partying, but to go and see dying loved ones in hospital. That was what you couldn't do at the time. You couldn't go and see your dying loved ones, which is the ultimate duty for any human being. The idea he equate duty in that context to leaving parties, is particularly crass.

But you know what I find even more fascinating is the fact that a few weeks before, he almost allegedly died from COVID. He was walking around with that, you know, gas masks, and he clearly, you know, suffered quite badly from it. So why wasn't everyone, all scared of getting it, right? Why was the mood in Westminster so nonchalant about this virus? Was it just the theatre? His wife was pregnant. Exactly.

And was potentially putting her at risk, and he'd been wandering around hospitals without wearing gloves or a mask. I mean, it's like he didn't think it was dangerous, even though he actually been super, super. I mean, that is the point, isn't it? It's the hypocrisy, but also it's the fact that everyone you had suspicions about how dangerous COVID. was, looks at all these passes and things,

with the people drawing up these draconian rules, the biggest breakdown of our freedoms in my lifetime, if the people doing that weren't taking them seriously themselves, how dangerous could it have been? And the problem with that is, if we get another pandemic, which we may well do, why is anyone going to trust the British Prime Minister and his team if that's what they did last time?

It's set a dangerous precedent, hasn't it? Because now we can't trust anything that the Tory government comes out with. But I think one thing that makes me even sadder is actual decent conservative MPs that are now being tainted by this disgusting scandal. You know, they say the fish rots from the head. And I don't think people realize how toxic Boris is now for the Conservative Party because there are decent MPs within the party that have to deal with this. And you say that as a conservative.

Well, yeah, but this is the thing. I think if you generally want the best for your country, conservative, liberal, wherever you lean, you want to see leadership that's at least respectable. At least competent and respectful. I might disagree with what the conservative is. doing and I wholeheartedly do. I was so against austerity. I was so against Brexit. I was so against so many things that they've plowed ahead with and the destruction that so many of those things have caused and the way that they're failing to deal with the cost of living crisis.

But, you know, if you're going to adopt policies, which I don't agree with, at least do it in a competent way, understand what you're doing, look at what the consequences might be, be in a position to be... To me, there's nothing more damaging. Actually, for any public figures, but particularly for a prime minister, to preach one thing to the public and do the complete opposite behind closed doors. It's the ultimate death deal. This brings me to two of my favorite people, Megan and Harry. The Platinum Jubilee begins a week today, a four-day celebration. They're famously now flying in.

Here's my problem with this. And I know we've had a debate about this before. My worry about this is they're going to hijack the whole thing. They've got my Netflix crew with them making this documentary. They're going to try and make it all about them because that promotes their royal brand. But I didn't even go in here until you put it on your show. I found out that. It's our front page of all the paper.

Yeah, how can you miss it? And here's... But no, but I mean, the point is that it's only a story because the media... No, it's not. It's not. Of course it's not. Of course they want to go to. So the Netflix cameras has nothing to do with it. That wouldn't have been a story of Netflix is following around. Let me be clear, Esther, it's your life and you're entitled to document it if you want to. Sure.

If I want to write the story of my life, I should have the freedom to write it down. You can't preach about privacy all the time and moan about the media. Yes, you can. And then have a 24-7 Kardashian-style... No, you can write it. You can and still not want people filming in your bed. You can be a blazing hypocrite. No, that's not.

You can choose to sell your autobiography and choose not to have what you do in the comfort of your own home filmed. You know, you absolutely have to draw your own mind around privacy. Just in the last few minutes, breaking news has been on the papers on the websites that Megamarkle, for reasons I find completely battling, has turned up at the scene of the mass shooting in America in Evalry, right? in Texas. To put flowers down,

Aveli. I don't know why she's there, and I could have asked one thing. You're now angry with her for visiting the site. I don't know what she's doing there. I'm confused. I'm confused, but she lost.

She flew all the way to Texas. She flew all the way to Texas, it seems, to Labies Fathers. My question is this, Esther. I don't know what she's doing there other than it seems self-promoting. And if the Netflix cameras are following her to do something like this,

I would find that unbelievably dissafeful. Yeah, listen, I would like to give her the benefit of the doubt just because, you know, this is a tragedy that has moved everyone, that she's not doing this as a form of self-promotion. However, if there are cameras, if there are Netflix cameras, then clearly she is. For this Jubilee, I don't think it has to be about them if we don't make it about them, right? But they are caveats to that. There should be no Netflix cameras anywhere near by the Palace. They should chuck them in the Thames. Prince Andrews should be kept in a crypt. They should do one public event. This is about the Queen. This is about her

decades of service. And it doesn't have to be about them if we don't make it about them. But But on the other hand, they should understand that it's also about the Queen. They were in the Royal family. They were active Royals for all of three days. They have left. They're not active royal family members now. I don't even see why they should do the whole public balcony scene. But fine, it's the Queen's request.

Well, they're not on the balcony, actually. Is it not? No, but they are going to go to St. Paul's Cathedral. I mean, here's the thing, my problem with them is, I think there's a constant pressure from their American paymasters for them to deliver stuff, material, about their connection to the royals. And this is about the Queen next week. It's all about these two. But you can just see already,

if she's flying to a mass shooting scene, if there are cameras in tow for this, it's all distasteful, isn't it? I just think whatever she does, you just don't like it. I don't. But you've won't. She's left the country. I didn't want to leave the country.

Here's the fundamental thing. On the day of their wedding. You were pretty horrendous about them for a long long time and then she left the country. Well, I'll tell you why, because actually on her wedding day, I wrote a big piece for the mail on Sunday saying it was a wonderful day for the country, brilliant for the royal family.

We had our first biracial member of the royal family. And then she disowned her father, who right now, right now in America, is actually in a very serious condition after a massive stroke. But you have no idea about the relationship between those two people. Somebody's private family

is absolutely none of your business. If somebody chooses not to stay in contact, if somebody chooses not to stay in contact, they trash their families on their family. Then you absolutely have to understand. They trash their families on Oprah Winfrey. They make the family public consumption. If they complained about their family and then she went to see him,

you'd be going, oh, what hypocrisy I thought she didn't like him? If there's a problem he has every right to draw those lines. Esther, Esther, am I being unfair or is it weird? If your problem him talking about it or the opinion he has about it, because if he praised her for not going to see her father, would that be okay? Is the problem that he has an opinion or is he has an opinion? I don't think it's none of any of our business. But they've made it our business.

They go on national television. And I actually have to say. And they do that to try and clear things up. No, they do it to promote their brand as a rival royal family. Let's get to the absolute heart of this, Piz. Like, we've all clearly got some quite complicated opinions about the royal family about what they should be doing, who should be there, who shouldn't be there. And yet none of our opinions will make any difference whatsoever.

The royal family do their thing. And it doesn't even matter if the whole country thinks it's awful. Well, actually, it does. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. Nothing changes. No, no, no. The only way that it changes is if we get rid of them, have a republic.

And then we can all vote for the Queen. I don't want to get rid of them. I don't want to get rid of Republicans. I don't want to vote her back in if you thought she was so great. It's happened around the world where monarchs have been replaced. And then they've had a vote and they've voted the old monarch. In my opinion, in my opinion, we have democracy. We have the greatest monarch in the history of this country.

I would say the greatest monarch has ever been of any country. That's anti-democratic. And I want next week to be a celebration of her life. And we don't need this. public and tarping. But why do you hate democracy? But that's the opposite of democracy. It's the opposite of democracy.

It's monarchy. Yes. She's the opposite. She has no power. She has no executive power. She's a taxpayer funded and she's the head of state. You know, tourism brings in more money than the Royal Cup.

At 96, would you be roaming this country and dedicating your life and public service to this country? I don't think 96 year olds should be made for it. No, no, I'm sorry. But if you want to, it's called selfless duty. Exactly.

Got a great debate, by the way. Great debate. Come back. Come back next week. Yes, have more chat about the Juby. It'll be a brilliant week next week. From Thursday to Sunday, it's going to be a massive celebration of a wonderful woman, a wonderful monarch. I can't wait. I'm excited. The fact is annoying people like Kate so much makes it even more delicious. So thank you both very much indeed.

Unsensored next, well, talking of fantastic women. We've been around to seven decades at the top of their game. It's not the queen. It's probably someone, the only person who could match the queen. It's the glamorous, the glittering, the fantastically irrepressible Dame Joan Collins. We thought it was only fitting that we roll out the first ever

red carpet on Pierce Morgan Unsensitive for the Great Lady. The Hollywood legend will be here with me after the break. Well, my next guest is true Hollywood royalty with a glittering career spanning seven decades from all of the Damehood by Prince Charles with services to charity, her services to charity in 2015. And next week will be part of the Dames in Jags' procession

at the Queen's Jubilee Paget. I'm thrilled to say Dame Joan Collins. Hello. How are you? I'm great, but I want to congratulate you on having your own show. Thank you. I think it's great. It doesn't really feel like my own show until you're here. I feel like you're anointing me. It's almost after the Queen is the next best thing to a royal visit.

Oh, please. Come on. You're part of the dames in Jags. What is this? The Hags in Jags, I think. Well, after they... I mean, this thing is going to be so enormous. I mean, so fantastic. It's going... Have you ever been to the... Thanksgiving, Macy's Thanksgiving parade.

It's going to be like that. They're going to have all these floats. They're going to have people dancing and singing and all kinds of people on it. And then we are coming down in these amazing vintage Jaguars open. I've got a white one and Twiggies there and Dame Darcy Bustle and I can't remember who the others are. You must have it written down. A great, but a load of great days. Well, I think so.

And then we are going to go around way to. gracefully, I hope, to the populace who are going to line up. And then we're going to go and hopefully go into one of the boxes and watch the rest of it. But it's very exciting because I'm such a monarchist and I'm such a royalist and I love the queen so much that to have been asked is a great... You've been in movie 70 years.

The queen has been on the throne 70 years. I know. It's quite amazing. There you are together. But she's a remarkable woman, isn't she? She is the most inspirational woman, I think, that ever has lived in my lifetime. I don't know. I never knew Mother Teresa or Joan of Arc, but, I mean, they were probably pretty good.

But, no, she is because she's so down to earth and gentle and humorous. And she's got through all of these dreadful things that have happened to. I mean, there really have been some awful things that she's had to deal with. And she does it with such grace. And the fact that she has never, ever commented on anything that's going on. No interviews. Nothing. But even an aside, because, you know, there are people that are lip reading.

And they could say that she said, oh, I think this play is ghastly as we all do when we go to see something. But the last time I saw her, we had, it was at Buckingham Palace. And we were talking about Pygmalion, My Fair Lady, because some students gave a performance. and she's so knowledgeable about the theatre. And we had a really very nice chat. No, I just love her. She's been a part of my life. I kept a scrapbook of her wedding to Prince Philip

when I was a schoolgirl. We were all madly in love with Prince Philip at school, you know, because he was so good-looking. She must really miss Philip, don't you think? Well, after, what, 74 years of being married? Yes, well, look at that man who just died with a broken heart. I know. Well, the story from Texas.

I know. I mean, imagine they've got four children. Oh, no. The teacher had been teaching there for many years. She gets shot dead by this lunatic. And then within 24 hours, her husband literally dies of a broken heart. This was his childhood sweetheart. Those four kids now have no parents.

Oh, my God. It's heartbreaking. It's beyond terrible what goes on with these things. I don't understand why if somebody posts pictures of themselves on social media, buying guns, talking about guns, saying, I want to kill people, Why, they can't be, why the FBI or the CIA or whoever go after them. He literally put on Instagram pictures of the two AR-15 rifles, but here's the point. He was 18.

When he turned 18 a couple of weeks ago, he was legally allowed to buy these guns. He went and bought his guns. He couldn't have bought a beer. That would have been illegal. He couldn't buy a kind of surprised chocolate egg. They're illegal in the whole of America because the toys may choke you. An 18-year-old boy could buy two AR-15 semi-automatic rifles and then go. go and do what he did. And it's that inconsistency of the laws, which I find so completely baffling.

But I always say to people, you and I have worked in America a long time, lived there. It's embedded in the culture. They have half of the world's guns are in America. Nearly half of the population of America own guns. So you're talking about 150, 60 million people in a country who have guns and therefore support their usage. And they believe passionately that the Second an amendment of the U.S. Constitution entitles them as ratified with the Supreme Court to own firearms. Well, I can understand that you might want to own a firearm, a small glock or something, but to own two assault rifles or to own machine guns. That's what I don't understand.

And I don't believe that 40% or whatever percentage you said of the population goes along with that. I think that they want to have a gun, and if somebody comes into their property, they can shoot them. But assault rifles? What's happening with young people, Joe? The last two massacres, the one in the supermarket, the white supremacist, and now this one, they're both 18 years old. The Sandy Hook shooter was 20. What is going on with these young men that they're so completely detached from reality

and so angry that they want to go and commit these atrocities? Well, I have a theory that young people today are brought up and love violent movies. Violent games. This one did he like Cool of Duty? They live on them. They're brought up from the age of four or five. I think it desensitizes them. Of course it does.

It's like porn. The same thing you're desensitized. Which is why I think that women are being abused so much. And I don't understand why that is allowed. Because Bessie and I, we watch a lot of television. And so many things we say, we can't watch this. The whole screen is covered in blood. You know, there's 4,000 people being killed.

There's the most awful thing, women being abused and slapped and hit. And it's just not right. It's not what I... I wasn't allowed to see certain movies. You remember, they used to have U certificate, universal. I wasn't allowed to see anything like that. And I think that's probably, you know, my generation is more seriously. I think it's a lot of things.

I think the desensitizing is definitely part of it. They all seem to be addicted into violent video games. I think that there's... I think medication. America is a very heavily medicated country. Well, it's not just Americans. No, no, but I'm saying I don't think they have any more of that than the many countries or indeed more mental health issues. What they do have is mentally deranged people who can get very easy legal access to weapons of war. When you see these guns, these are like machine guns. Machine guns are actually illegal in America. But these are semi-automatic. They can fire a bullet every time you pull a trigger.

And obviously, if you're going to buy something like that, you're going to kill somebody. Well, he bought 375 rounds. of ammunition. And the guy who is in the shop? Has the FBI fault to this guy? It seems completely crazy, isn't it? It is crazy. Well, thank God it can't happen in this country. Well, it happened here in Dumb Lane, in Scotland. But that was how long ago?

1996, and I was actually editing the Daily Mirror at the time. You see, Britain wasn't a gun culture country at the time. No. Very few civilians owned guns. So it was an easier campaign, really. We all came together, left and right. It wasn't political. I'll say this to my American friends. I don't know why politics gets involved with this. This is about saving kids from being shot dead at school.

But in a wee campaign, we got the laws changed, and we haven't had a school shooting since. America's had 27 school shootings this year. I can't, you know, I mean, can you imagine being a mother and hearing that? Or even being a mother now and sending your kids to school and thinking, are they going to be safe?

I mean, you always thought your children were going to be safe. I actually emailed a friend of mine who's one of the dumb blame mothers, because every time one of these things happens, I just can't imagine what they go through. And I sent her a note, and she replied a very nice, heartfelt email, but it always takes them straight back when they have this. Well, of course it does.

And their kids never grow up. And just what they have to go through is so unthinkable. I think the whole thing is unthinkable. And I think the whole thing of somebody mentally wanting to kill children, babies, which is what is going on in Ukraine as well. But we don't seem to talk about that anymore. Well, that's another thing. You know, Ukraine's disappearing from the news agenda, which is what Vladimir Putin wants. Oh, he does?

Of course he wants to stop talking about it. Let him just carry on seizing the country. It's just appalling. Which is what he's doing, you know. But is it true that he's very ill? I keep on hearing these rumors. People say that. I mean, who the hell knows? All I do know is he is raising cities to the ground, literally destroying. Worse than Hitler? Yes, he is. Worse than Hitler. Well, he's up there with Hitler. And I think his aspiration is to seize Ukraine and then to,

to try and seize other countries. Of course. And he has to be stopped. Finland, Norway. What do you make a party gate, Boris Johnson? You know Boris Johnson. You've been at parties with Boris Johnson. Yeah, he was my boss once when he was a spectator.

And he was a spectator. Yeah. What do I think of it? I have to say, I haven't really gotten involved in it totally. But I haven't exactly seen, you know, fizzing bottles of champagne and lots of people sitting down. To me, a party is people sitting down. Well, they had a few big ones. I mean, he may not have been some big ones.

And they were vomiting and fighting and breaking stuff. Well, that's nice. I don't go to parties where people vomit. Ultimately, it's not about parties. What it's about, it's about the fact that they were doing all this breaking the laws they had made. And everybody else, including the Queen, at Phillips' funeral, had to sit on her own. That tragic picture. Because she wanted to obey the rules. And the night before, they were partying in Downing Street until 4 a.m., which I think is unforgivable.

Well, I do too. I think it's terrible. But what are you going to do? I mean, you're going to get rid of Boris. Who are you going to bring in? Actually, yes, I do, actually. I do think when a prime minister breaks their own rules and gets fined by the police for it during a pandemic,

that's a resignation of it. It used to be, the old days, men would fall on their sword as a matter of honor. I don't think he knows how to spell the word. Well, who do you suggest, then, is our next prime minister? Somebody that can restore a bit of integrity and trust. Somebody. Somebody. Who's the somebody? There's always somebody.

There's never. I don't think there's a somebody. No, I mean, you are, but you're irrepressible. No, I guess. I mean, you are, but you're irrepressible. I don't know about that. Let me talk about another thing. Wimbledon today has announced that they're removing from the honours board

Ms and Miss before the names of previous winners. They want to make it gender neutral. What are your thoughts? I think that's just the way everything is going, isn't it? What about the men? Well, the men, they just call them, you know, N. Jockovich. It's just something that's been going on, and it's something to me that, you know, since Emily P.

pancursed, women have fought, fought, fought for equal rights. So I suppose this is them saying, well, this is equal rights. You know, the men are... What if they say to you, right, you can't be called a dame anymore because it's too female a title? Well, they haven't sent that to me. What if they did? What if they came for your damehood?

I just threw it to them. You wouldn't. You'd love being a dame, don't you? I love being a dame. I mean, it's very flattering in Britain, particularly, because people know what it is. In the rest of the country, they don't know. I mean, in the rest of the world, in America, a dame. The dame is, you know, something from Dame and Runyon.

It's what Frank Sinatra used to call his girlfriend. Yeah, you're a dame. Yeah, and, of course, in Europe, like in France, Percy sometimes says to somebody, it's Dame, General. Dom, Dom, they think this is. No, I like, I like it, of course, but, you know, I'm very old-fashioned. When you see this debate where politicians can't even say what a woman is now,

what do you make it? Now, you know. Now we're not going to get on that subject. I do not approve of people saying that. Of course not, because it's just not fair. It's not right. And I do not wish to get cancelled by the trans community. Thank you very much.

But what is a woman? What is a woman, me? Celia. Now her over there. There's plenty of us. But are you worried that in this trans debate? Because I support trans rights. rights to fairness and equality. So do I, of course. I just don't like the attack on women's rights

that some of the activists are driving, where you have in sport, this apparent unfairness now going on. What do you think when you see that? Well, I don't watch sport. No, but you know what I'm talking about. Well, I know what you're talking about, yes, and I know what you're saying. I don't want me to say anything. Yes, of course you do. Yes, of course you do. Yes, you want me to agree with you. No, no, I don't. This is uncensored this show. Well, of course it's uncensored. I think that a person should be who they feel that they are

and who they but I do believe I can't say this I can't say this no I can't why you feel like you can't because I don't want to get hate mail you see but you've gone through your entire career

saying exactly what you always think no I haven't yes you have I've read your diaries I've never I've never gotten into the politics of biology Okay. I understand why people don't want to go there.

Well, yes, I don't want to go there. Well, talking about you, what about Madonna who's auditioning for a new boy toy? You're kidding. She is. No, you've just made that up. No, she's apparent. She wants him to be hard-bodied.

What do you mean? Hard-bodied and young. Oh, that's right. We were with her son, Rocco. Last summer. And he said, you know, my mother says that she will not sleep with anybody over the age of 25. I said, no. No. Rocco, you're killing.

That's never been your rule, has it? No, I don't have rules. Rules. I'm very happily married with 20 years. You didn't come to our anniversary party. I wasn't here, as you know. I was in Australia. I know, I know. It was a fantastic party. And the great person is, as he always is, he's lurking in the wings, like a protective night. Oh, don't say that word lurking.

He's standing there. A protective night, look at him. It's standing. He just got, he saved me from the most embarrassing wardrobe malfunctioning party. Really? Yes, I was talking to Richard Arnold, your friend. Oh, yeah. And he was terribly funny.

He made me laugh. And the whole zipper in the back of my dress went. And I'm sitting there with a completely gaping open. And there's loads of photographers. It was a big party. And I said to Percy, I don't know what to do. I know there was another dress I was possibly going to wear. Because the theme was red, white, or blue.

Because it was a Jubilee party. So I said, you know, the white dresses that I left in the wardrobe, do you think you could bring it? So he went out. Luckily, we don't live too far away, and I changed into another dress. And we were spared. Well, what would have been, perhaps a delightful incident? I had to sit there for at least half an out.

I had a huge feather bar, which I kept on putting on Christopher Biggins around his neck. He really liked that. But it was fantastic. Dame Joan, I've got to leave it there. Good. But it was a wonderful interview. It's great to see that, and I cannot wait to see you in your Jack on Sunday.

The fact of them juby is going to be amazing. Oh, yes, I'm going to see you there. See you around. I'll see you there. Okay. Yeah, and I felt I'm seeing you for dinner tomorrow night. Oh, yeah. I'm a lucky guy.

You restaurant. And dinner with Joan Collins, let me tell you, is hilarious. Love you to see you. Great to see you. And so next, the legendary West Indies Prigado. Michael Holding on why sports stars should only take the knee if they truly support Black Lives Matter what's coming up. Well, this week, marked two years since Minneapolis Police Officer in a showling, the handcuffed George Floyd, pinned him face down on the street,

and fatal. choked him, sparking a global reckoning on race and policing. The world of sport was at the forefront of that reckoning. Taking Meney, inspired by Colin Kaepernick's race protest in America, became a global sporting gesture. But two years on, is Taking Meney still having the same impact? Well, joining me now is Michael Holding, one of the greatest cricketers of all time,

who says, if you don't kneel, I know where you stand. Michael, fantastic to speak to you. Thank you for joining the show. Thanks for having me, Pierce. Glad to be with you. I read your book a few months ago, And I sent a note to you by your agent just saying how incredibly moved I was by the book. It is, without a doubt, the most powerful book about racism and hopeful in many ways I think I've ever read. And I don't say that lightly.

And at the forefront of it is why we kneel, how we rise. And I think my question for you right now, as we get to a stage where in football, certain teams now in the Premier League have begun not to take the knee, certain black players will, at Crystal Palace and so on, have decided that they're not going to do it anymore because they think it's become ineffective. This debate about whether sporting teams should continue to do it and whether it's still effective is now beginning to be had. What is your view? Pierce, as far as I'm concerned, taking a knee should not be a ticking the box exercise. If you believe in what you're talking about, about the racism and trying to change what's happening

and trying to make the world a better world. Taking the knee is a gesture that has been accepted around the world as, yes, I believe this. I am joining with you. I support you. So I'm signaling to you and everyone else that I am with you.

That's what I see taking the knee as. No, it is obvious that a lot of people do not believe that taking the knee has had any impact at all because, yes, you don't know how to be just taking the knee and nothing else. What's the point of taking the knee if nothing happens? But taking the knee should not then say to you, well, nothing is happening.

I can stop taking the knee. Because if you stop taking the knee, that is signaling to everyone. I'm satisfied with what is that going on. Everything has changed. I'm happy now I don't longer need to take the knee. It is a pre-requisite peers to action. That is what I look at taking the knee as. You know, when I go watch Arsenal, my football team,

I'm always struck by 60,000 people all applaud, all of them. There's never a single boo when the players, many of whom are black in the Arsenal team, take the knee. There's a lot of respect now for it, whereas at the start, there was quite a lot of animosity at certain clubs. Now I feel it's become part of football, and I like that, you know, and I think it is an important part. Here's my other question for you, though.

You've had a player at Paris Saint-Germain. It wasn't about taking a knee, but it was about whether he should wear the LGBT kids. colors for PSG when they played a game. He's from Senegal and he decided he didn't want to do that and didn't play. Should players, whether it's taking the knee against racism, whether it's an LGBT protest, whatever it may be, should any players for any kind of sport be compelled to do it? Or what is your view? No, I don't believe anyone to be compelled to do anything like that, Pierce. You support it wholeheartedly are not.

they should be compelling people to support any cause. If you do not believe in it, you don't support it. That is my belief. I just want to see people acknowledging that things are not right, whatever the issue is. You either acknowledge it and you say, yes, things are not right and I'm going to support whatever you are doing, or you see it to yourself, no, I don't believe that what you're supporting is right. I'm not going to support whatever you are supporting.

It's as simple as that. I don't see how you can dictate to anyone and say, you have to take the knee or you have to wear this shirt or you have to, I don't believe in that. I don't believe in forcing people to be supporting things that don't believe in. No, I agree. I think it has the opposite effect if you do that. Just finally, Michael, do you feel two years on from what happened to George Floyd that the aftermath of that was so gigantic around the world? There was a real movement, wasn't there, rising up against what had happened. But do you feel there's been substantive progress now in the battle against racial injustice since then?

I definitely believe that. I've seen enough for me to believe peers that there has been action and people have now awake to the situation. A lot of people have been going through their lives. They have been comfortable. Nothing has affected them as far as we've seen as concern. And they have just drifted along. They've just floated on the tide.

A lot of people have no realized that something is wrong and they are willing to join the fight. I have had too much positive feedback from this book that I have written. I've had too much positive feedback from what other people have said and done for me to not recognize that people are coming to see that there's a problem and people are willing to work towards solving this problem. You see, a lot of people used to walk around Pierce and say, oh, I'm not racist. I don't have a problem. I don't have to support anything. I know what I am.

But the times of just being not racist are over. You have now got to be anti-racist. You have got to show people that those who are racist, racist, racist, are wrong. And you're going to tell them that they're wrong. So that people recognise that, yes, it's not the way to go. Michael, you brought me enormous pleasure as a cricketer, one of the greatest fast bowlers that ever lived. You've brought me a lot of thought, constructive thought, with this book.

It's a magnificent book. I urge you ever want to read it, why we kneel, how we rise. I think you're a force for such good in this debate, because you come at it from a place of love, and you just want people to understand what it's about. This book made me really understand it in a way that no other book has done. So thank you for writing it and keep going, because we're all right behind you. Thank you very much, Pierce.

I hope the book does what I'm trying to do, to get everyone, all races, all creases, to understand that we're all human beings and the world is a much better place if we are all together. We're all humans. Just let us all get together and make it. the world of it, please. Absolutely. Michael, great to talk to you. Thank you so much for joining me.

Thank you, much. And so to the next, why Kim Kardashian is the new face of the vegan mob and why I'm not buying it. That's after the break. Influencer, trainee lawyer, reality style, global irritant. Kim Kardashian can now add vegan food ambassador to her list of supposed accomplishments.

She's filmed this cringe-making ad for Meatless Burger brand, Beyond Meat. But I noticed something that makes it. me rather suspicious. Take a look. I believe so much in the mission of Beyond Meat, but I've stepped into help with my greatest asset, my taste. This plant-based meat is not only amazingly delicious, but it's also better for you and better for the planet.

Yeah. The problem is, if you watch really carefully, she never puts any of it into her mouth. I've rumbled you, Kim Kardashian. Have you ever actually eaten that vegan gruel? Eda's taking the cash. Okay, well that's it from me. Whatever you're up to, make sure it's uncensored.

And have a good night.