Piers Morgan Uncensored - Piers Morgan Uncensored: Eddie Hearn, Putins Online Influence, Sinead O'Connor Tribute

Episode Date: July 26, 2023

On tonight's episode of Piers Morgan Uncensored, Piers is joined by legendary boxing promoter Eddie Hearn to discuss a range of topics. Piers looks into why so many online influencers are backing Vladimir Putin, and Piers pays tribute to Sinead O'Connor. Watch Piers Morgan Uncensored at 8 pm on TalkTV on Sky 522, Virgin Media 606, Freeview 237 and Freesat 217. Listen on DAB+ and the app.  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

News buildings is Pearce Morgan Uncensored. Well, good evening, Verland. Welcome to Pierce Morgan Uncended. We start the show with some very sad breaking news. The Irish music legend, Shenned O'Connor, has died at the age of just 56. She was a troubled and beautiful soul, fearless, uncompromising, shocking, courageous. She was a rebel at heart. She took on the Catholic Church.

She used a primetime performance on US TV to stage a protest, even as everyone warned her it could ruin her career. Above else, though, she enchanted millions with a song that's known across the world and across generations. Few people can truly say their voice to find an era, but Shanade's did. Put simply, nothing compared to Shnade O'Connor. When a statement tonight, the singer's family said it is with great sadness that we announced the passing of our beloved Sheneid. Her family and her friends are devastated. I'm sure that millions of people across the world will share that sentiment.

course led a very turbulent life. She was said her rebellious street was driven by the abuse she suffered as a child, and that music rescued her, it certainly unleashed to creative talent that made her world famous. She struggled with her mental health for many years and talked very openly and powerfully about that, and tragically, she lost her 17-year-old son Shane to suicide just 18 months ago. I had a number of exchanges with Chennaid and interviews over the years. They were most definitely uncensored. This was the last time I interviewed her. Shanate, we go back a long way. I used to write about you as a young pop writer.

We used to lock horns, clash, blah, blah, blah. I never doubted your talent. I mean, the one thing that rose above all the controversies, all the stuff, was that you just had this wondrous voice. And to hear you now, if anything, even richer your voice, I think, than it was back then, it's a magical thing to hear. I mean, at your heart, you're just a great singer, aren't you? Yeah, I think it was very young.

I wasn't ready for the type of success, inverted comments that happened. Do you know what I mean? I wasn't really setting out to be a pop star, so it didn't really fit the mould. I was more of a punk. She was, and she was a unique talent, a unique character. Well, I'm joined then by RTE Radio presenter from Ireland, Dave Fanning, who's interviewed Chenade multiple times. Dave, very sad this news.

It really gave me a jolt when I read this just before I came on air. You knew Chenade very well, you interviewed her. She's an Irish music legend, of course. What is your reaction to this news tonight? Dreadfully sad. I mean, an Irish cultural legend, as much as an Irish music legend, obviously it's the music that people would know her best by.

I mean, she's got about 10 studio albums. She must have 30 collaborations with some of the biggest artists around. Obviously, she took Prince's song and made it into the greatest love song of all time. There it is there, yeah. I mean, absolutely no question about it. It's her song. Her first two albums just broke every mold you could imagine. The next ones were all quite kind of experimental.

Sometimes the Shan knows the old Irish singing one. There was a reggae one. They didn't always work. But the last two albums that she made were just a great collection of new pop songs. And they were really good. And with David Holmes, the Belfast musician, she had another one, an 11th one coming out. I don't know if it still will, I'm not sure. But it was the cultural impact that she had.

I mean, she was self-deprecating. She was pragmatic, a very sharp observer. She was uncompromising. And she had no regrets about anything at all. and she was an absolute icon to a certain generation of Irish people. And that generation now is anything between the ages of 20 and maybe 45 or 50. The older generation, they didn't necessarily like all the things she did. Taring up the picture of the Pope on TV, 25, I mean 30 years ago,

was obviously something that didn't necessarily go down well with some people. But how prescient was she, everything she was saying, every reason she did it came true 10 years later with the dreadful, dreadful revelations of just exactly how crazy the church was. Yeah, I mean, she was controversial. She was outspoken, but she spoke her mind. I always felt that it was sincere. I had some great run-ins with her where she'd tear into me,

and the next thing would be drinking Guinness, and she'd be smothering me in kisses and love. And she was like that. She was a contrarian figure. I think she liked rattling cages, and she liked telling you what she really thought of you, whether it was good or bad. And so, you know, I feel very, like I say,

I feel very sad about this news. I also feel it probably, I don't want to guess here, but it probably can't be unconnected to the tragedy about her son, who died only 18 months ago, of course, taking his own life. Well, I don't want to be too sad all the time about something, and this is still like just kind of trying to sort of put this grief into some kind of perspective. But in some ways, she was a bit, Piers Morgan.

She was an ajean provocateur in many ways. She really knew how to rattle people's cages and was able to stand up to whatever had to be said to her in terms of Chenetio wrong. say, no, here's why I'm not wrong. And she was fun and she was great. She was very fearless and fragile often at the same time. No regrets.

She did put herself into some very, very tough situations. And you kind of used to wonder and say, why is she doing this? The very first interview she did, she did with me on the radio back in 87 direction or whatever it was. And then the last thing she did was on stage in Dublin. There's a thing in Britain called the Mercury Music Prize in Ireland, call it the Choice Prize. And at Vicker Street in Dublin, she came out first time since Shane has. died and I had to give her the award for her second album, like it was a classic album award thing. And I didn't even think she'd come to collect it and she did and she came out on stage and smiled.

And honestly, not so much the standing ovation, but the love in the room. I know it's going to cliche. So I'll just leave it at this. Everybody wanted to put their arms around her. She knew that and smiled all her way home. Fantastic. Dave, thank you so much for joining me. I'm so sorry for your loss, for the country's loss.

You know, she really was an iconic figure and I thought you summed her up absolutely perfectly. I can already hear a ranting about you saying she was Pierce Morgan. That would be just about the last thing she'd want to hear. But she'd also have a wry smile because she and I had a bittersweet but always fun relationship. Dave, thank you. I appreciate that. Take it easy. Thanks. Shunette O'Connor, who's died at the age of just 56. What a voice. What a talent. What a mark she made.

Well, my next guest is from a sporting dynasty, despite his father, Barry Hearn, claiming his son was born with a silver spoon. Eddie Hearn has grown the family business, signing boxing's first billion-dollar deal, become one of the sports most recognisable faces around the world, including America. But just how far will the promoter go to follow the money? Saudi Arabia's so-called sports-washing empire is expanding across football, Formula One, golf, and of course boxing. And there's now a reported one billion dollar offer for Paris San Jaman's Kili Nimbabé. Should we be afraid of the Saudi world takeover?

Well, I'm delighted to say, Eddie Hearn is joining me, Lai, uncensored in the studio. Welcome, Eddie. Good evening. Great to see you. This whole Saudi thing has been fascinating to me. Watching LiveGolf, for example, take on the PGA and basically batter the PGA into submission,

watching Formula One, embracing all the money from the Middle East. And then my friend Cristiana Ronaldo, going out to Saudi and really transforming world football. You look at all the stars going there now following Ronaldo. as he said, it could be the fifth best league in the world within a year. It is extraordinary to watch. Should we be concerned about this? What's your view of this Saudi domination of world sport?

I mean, we first went there in 2019 with Anthony Joshua against Andy Ruiz in the rematch. Got a lot of criticism. Obviously, I don't like to position boxing differently to golf or tennis, but it's prize fighting. And our job is to obviously maximise the earnings of a fighter over a short period of time. What I've learned through my work out there is you've got a lot of passionate people about sport.

The political argument of sports washing and so forth. Now, I don't want to push that away and say, you know, that's not my responsibility. I don't see that as much. I see a group of people in charge of certain sports that are ultimately huge fans with a unparalleled budget. And people in boxing that have actually worked amongst the grassroots, It's up 300% for boxing clubs. I think they've quadrupled the number of amateur boxing clubs, etc. But it's just people in charge who have a huge passion for a sport.

I was there three or four weeks ago talking boxing in Prince Khalid's house who runs the boxing. They're all watching football. Unbelievable football fans. Well, Ronaldo told me that the fans, it's incredible. He said the stadiums are packed out. The fans go crazy. They're very knowledgeable. The quality of the football is better than he thought it was.

and he's obviously massively improving with all these signings. You've got all these top players going. There's no doubt they're on a mission to be very dominant in the sport. Do you see a downside to this? When you see Mbapé potentially going for one season, if he accepts this deal for a billion dollars, most people will think this is completely insane. They would see it as a marketing play.

Yeah, I think we can talk about it, we can debate it, we can talk about the pros and cons, but all of it's irrelevant. It's not going away. This is a group. of very determined individuals who want to make Saudi Arabia the forefront of global sport.

And they have the budget to do it at every single level. And is there a lot of hypocrisy? The reason I asked that, it takes someone like Jordan Henderson who's just gone to play in Saudi. I remember at the Qatar World Cup, he said, when we were given the briefing on Qatar, which is really important,

it was shocking and disappointing. It's horrendous, really. When you look at some of the issues, they're currently happening, and have been happening over there. All sounds great, right to the point. He then gets on a place. and goes and plays in Saudi Arabia.

He's put his morals to one side and his concerns. Is there a lot of hypocrite? I believe there is. I think that if you look at most countries around the world, us including, if you go to Qatar like I did and talk to the locals, they say, well, what about your illegal invasion of Iraq? Who gives you the right to put a halo on your heads? Yeah, and I think every country has their problem.

Obviously, Saudi Arabia, perhaps more so from a human rights issue, but also sometimes I'll return to this country and look at the problems we have here and prefer to worry about that. I think when we talk about sport, you know, like I said, this isn't going away. This is a group of people that are very determined to make an impact. Is it good or bad?

Let's be honest. What I didn't like about Live particularly was the press conferences that were held where people were talking and glorifying the format and the changing, you know, in structure moving from the PGA tour to Live to. Let's just be completely honest. And by the way, I don't blame these people. It's a huge amount of money that will set them up, their kids, generations for years and years beyond.

Who can actually blame Ronaldo or Mbapé for taking a deal like that? You can celebrate ones that don't because of other issues or because of a moral principle. But at the end of the day, in all business, and sport is business as well, money talks, and they're not going to be able to reject this amount of money over time. Why has money not yet talked Anthony Joshua fighting Tyson Fury? I think it's a lot of things.

I think Tyson Fury, who, I'm saying he's slowly being found out, but he's not always as truthful as he appears on Instagram. Timing is something. I think television rights and partnerships are something. Instagram is something. Ego is very much something as well. Everybody wants to see this fight.

Everybody wants to see it. And on August 12th, Anthony Joshua will fight Dillian White on DeZone. After that, he will fight Deonté Wilder in Saudi Arabia. And then after that, it has to be Tyson Fury. Tyson Fury, turned down the Alexander Usik fight. the biggest fight, really, the most important fight in boxing, the undisputed heavyweight world championship, two-fight, an MMA fighter who's never had a fight before in his life.

Also, in Saudi Arabia, we've got to be honest. Tyson Fury cares about one thing only, the money. Don't talk to me about legacy, don't talk to me about undisputed, don't talk to me about... But he has banged over everybody out there. Really? Who? Well, who everybody out there? Well, Wilder, who your boy's going to fight? So he's beat Clitchcoe and Wilder.

That's his wins. He needs to be Ussick and AJ, and then we can talk about him, as I believe he is, as one of the greatest heavyweights of all time. Listen, he's unbelievable. What he's come back from, incredible. Couldn't commend him more. But to create a legacy, to create that history, to go down as a modern day great, to put yourself up with A. Lee, with Lennox Lewis, with Joe Frazier, those guys.

He's got to beat Ussick. And he's got to be Anthony Joshua, but particularly Ucic, who's the undisputed champion. Well, I think he will beat Uzic. He'll fight him and beat him. And then the real fight I want to see is him and Joshua. Let's get through Dillian White first. Let's talk about you, because I got to know you and your dad. We're holiday in the same place.

And I've seen how competitive you are, even at play golf with each other. You were brought up in a very similar atmosphere as a family to the one that I've tried with my kids, my parents, tried with me, where it was tough love. You know, like no quarter was given. Your dad wanted you to be successful, and he felt the best way to do it was, for example, you put a cricket in your garden and bowl as fast as he could at.

He's a very good cricket and a good cricket and could bowl quick. When you were like young kid, 11, 12 years old, then when you were 16, he'd been boxing for a few years, he said, we're going to have a fight, you and me in the ring. And a pair of you get in a ring and have a proper match. And first of all, what happened in that fight? Well, you know, I was a big kid. I mean, I'm 6'5 now, but he always said to me,

look, you know, you have to understand it. And people, there was an article in the garden recently where the writer kind of failed to understand my child. It wasn't normal. And as I get older, I realise more and more. It actually wasn't normal, but it worked for us. My dad was from Dagnum, right? The one thing he hated more than anything growing up

was a sport kid, right? A rich kid who had everything. And he was petrified that I was going to be that kid. So he drilled into me, work ethic, working class mentality. you get given nothing. Winning is everything. And I was brought up on sport. You know, it was the one thing that taught me discipline, manners, respect, winning, losing.

Of course, physical health, mental health, all of that stuff, working as a team. And that's why I'm so passionate about that for the next generation. But, you know, he always said to me, when you get to 18, I'm going to take you down a gym, and I'm going to give you a complete pasting. He said, you're a soft, silver spoon, sport kid, and I'm from Dagnum, and I'm going to, you know, I'm going to take you to school. So I said, all, I understand. And I boxed a little bit.

You know, I thought I was good, but I was terrible. But I got to 16, and I was already six foot. I was 14 stone. And he said, look, we need to bring it forward a couple of years. Because he was worried. Yeah, I was a bit of a lump. So we went down to the Romford boxing gym. And there was fighters down there.

And we put on these little gloves. And we got in the ring. And the bell went. We were doing three, two-minute rounds. And a bell ring. And I never forget, because he came at me. And I've never seen such determination and grit to inflict, damage. On his own son? Yeah. And the teeth were grit, you know, and he was banging away,

and I was taking shots, and anyway, beat me up for the first round. And in the second round, he was completely gone. He's out of gas. And I left hook to the body, took one knee, got up, done him again, and he was counted out. And the next day, it's in every paper. And he's told, he couldn't have been prouder. You know, normally, if your son gives you a bit of a pacing, you'd sort of want to keep it a bit quiet. He was so proud that... And how did you feel about the whole thing? I knew, you know, again, he'd done a job on me growing up, you know, with the right mentality. But, you know, he was like, you're one of us. Do you know, that's how he felt?

And the problem is, you know, sport is the answer for something. We were talking in the, you know, in the green room. Sport is the answer for me. Totally great. For the growth, the education and mold. I mean, I'm so passionate about boxing in the community. Now, politicians, the government, they don't go to these clubs. No.

You know, if you go in there and see the types of kids that are in these clubs and speak to every fighter that exists. And some of them, obviously, are a bigger torch than others. Anthony Joshua, great example. Got in trouble with the police, got arrested, stumbled across Finchley ABC, didn't go in there to be heavyweight world champion. Went in there for some direction, some hope, that family feeling that a boxing gym gives you. You know, and through it actually became Olympic champion and world heavyweight champion.

but every fighter that we represent will tell you the same story. Boxing changed or boxing saved my life? That goes across all sports. What do you feel about two issues about sport right now? One, at school, everyone gets a participation prize even if they come last. Secondly, boys now race against girls,

which I think is completely ridiculous. Many schools have gone down this way, unisex sports day, which I think is ridiculous. And then you have the ongoing issue of transgender athletes in sport dominating biological females in women's sport. Let's take the first one.

Let's take the last one first, the transgender issue. What do you feel about that as a sports promoter? I mean, I'm of the old school mentality where, you know, of course, male athletes compete against male athletes, female athletes complete against female athletes.

It's an awkward conversation to have. It's not about a level... I mean, when you talk about physical sport, There is no way. And boxing is a great example. We haven't had that problem yet in boxing. Well, if Mike Tyson suddenly turn around, I'm now Michel Tyson and I'm going to compete as a woman,

the world would go completely crazy and say, you're going to kill somebody, you're going to kill a woman. But we seem perfectly okay with six-foot-four-inch swimmers. Biological males dominating women's sports. Spinters, weightlifters. Bizarre, shouldn't be allowed. And ultimately, you know, whoever you upset, you're upset.

but not sport, not a fair sport, not a fair race, not a fair competition. It's to me the same as doping. You're giving yourself a physical advantage. Exactly, which of course can't be allowed. Kids and participation prizes at school. If you come large, I mean, I used to win the non-finalist race on Sports Day, which was for all the losers, but I used to make sure I was the best loser. Because I wasn't an athlete.

My two brothers used to win everything. And my sons have been very good at Sports Day. But I wasn't. But I remember the pain of losing and I wanted to be the best at least. He's the best loser. But this idea that if you come last, you still get a little prize because they can't be upset. This mindset is where I think this country is going so wrong.

And I'm a bad person to ask because I couldn't be more on your side and on your page. Winning, this is how I grew up, winning is everything. It's the only thing that matters. Whatever you do, win. And that's the attitude we have in sport, in business. It doesn't matter if I'm playing my old man over. a game of table tennis, he's diving on the floor.

You know, it's absolute do or die. Winning is everything. I struggle having two daughters especially, and one is very good at football, and she'll get taken off in matches because we have to give everybody a game. I hate that. Why has she been punished for her ability?

I agree, but it's so difficult, you know. I mean, on one stage, we talk about the importance of sport, and we talk about encouragement. You can't close the door to a young kid. No, but you tell the young kid, want to be as good as that kid, here's what you've got to do. But at the same time, we don't want to close the board. Don't sacrifice your principles.

No, I will never. Don't let them take your daughter off. My old man referred to me recently as a project, you know, and that was like, that's his thing, you know, it's about winning. And we have that mentality. What we must do is we must continue to create winners. Because if it's in sport, if it's in business, in everything. In life.

And, you know, unfortunately, now we live in a world where everybody actually tries to bring the winners down and deflate the winners, you know, make sure they sort... But this thing of having at school on Sports Day, boys competing with girls, I think he's complete madness. Complete madness. What are you trying to do to these girls? Kill their self-esteem, tell them they're not as good as boys, simply because the boys have a physical advantage.

I think all of it is wrong. I think completely wrong. And also on the winning argument, ultimately, kids need to be told. Winning, you know, I used to come home from a game of cricket and my old man would go to me, as you get on, I go, oh, no, good, got a good ball, got four. useless. What's the matter of you? Go out there tomorrow and go knocking a hundred. Right. And that was it. That was life.

But that to me is about teaching someone to, A, to want to compete properly. Why bother entering anything that's competitive if you don't want to win? And why is winning such a bad thing these days, right? Nowadays, people who lose get celebrated. If they quit, they get more celebrated than if they compete. But that's a classic British trait, isn't it? We really do glorify our greatest losers.

Almost like, I mean, Frank Bruno is a great example. was one of the most popular, you know, character, sportsmen in this country. Won a world heavyweight title? Actually, people sort of went, oh, he's won the World Heavyweight title. It was like a bit of a disappointment. Our friend, who couldn't really ever win a World Heavyweight title,

has won one. I mean, I feel like Andy Murray suffers from that a little bit, you know, through his success. I mean, Tim Hempvin, another example. A bit old Tim couldn't quite win Wimbled and we love him. Yeah. You know, and that's sometimes the British mentality. We need to move more towards educating young people

that you have to achieve. You on your cabinet in your office, you have a school board, Eddie v. Barry, school board. Boxing skills, it says 1-0 to Eddie. Obviously, you beat him. Snooker skills, 1-0 to Barry. He beats you at Snooker. Instagram followers, 62 Barry, 1.2 million, Eddie.

Amazon book, I love this. Amazon book reviews, 33 Barry, 1,370 for Eddie. height, well, obviously you're taller than him, golf handicap, you're now beating him. Actually, you're quite ahead now on the metric. But I'll tell you one very quick story about my old man, which the book is the one, right? So I get asked to write a book.

It's called Relentless. It's about my work ethic, my love for the business, for sport, all that kind of stuff. Wrote it in three months with a ghost writer during lockdown, right? He's been writing his for nine or ten years. You know, I won't want to embarrass him, but I made significantly more money for my fee to write the book than he did. But what he said was,

what I'm going to do is I'm going to take more money on commission. So I'm going to make more money. more money than you. After the book was written, fantastic book took him six or seven years to write the book. I must recommend. He drove around the country with books in the boot and was knocking them out at events to try and outsell me. I think I've done 60,000, he done 8,000 in the end. But this is what I'm up against. You know, he was like... I get the feeling, though, because you have such a lovely relationship. I've seen it at first time. And you're very similar in many ways. And he just wanted you to be the best you could possibly be. Even if that's...

meant you were more successful than him. I don't think he really minded that. He just never wanted you to shortchange yourself, right? He wanted you to be the best competitive beast that he could possibly empower you to be. And he wants to be a graph that he wants to win and that's the thing with business now. You know, we are, he might say to me how'd you get on at Dallas Cowboys, you know, how many turned up to that Canello fight? You know, and he would say, well, have you seen the ratings for the darts? Smashed your boxing. And it's like that, we're in the same company, you know, but that's that. But I'm not this for my sons, right? I got to cricket that with my boys. He'll try and kill me.

Yeah. I mean, but I want nothing else. I don't want them giving me anything. I don't want to give them anything. When I play table tennis with my daughter, it's 11, I want to beat her so that when she finally beats me, she knows she beat me trying to beat her. That would mean so much more than if I just let her win.

That's exactly what happens around my old man's house on a Sunday. Just want to ask you quickly about Connor Ben, because I interviewed him on this show, is one of your fighters. I've got to say, I ended that interview, really just not sure what to believe, but actually veering slightly, I felt in my gut that he might be telling the truth that he has been the victim of a miscarriage of justice here

over this suggestion that he took illicit drugs. You believe in him. Why are you so convinced? Because I've known Connor Ben since he was 18, 19 years of age, since he came over from Australia, on his own, left his mum and dad there to make a name for himself in boxing. The meticulous nature of his preparation you know, his love of the sport,

you know, his deep faith, all of the things, the way he trains with Tony Sims, the closeness of their relationship, the way that he was so insistent on additional testing that he paid for going into this fight. And the amount of times that I've sat with this young man in my office and watched him break down in tears

on the floor. And for me to question him, I didn't believe him. You've been, because you've been criticized because you've always ripped into, to other cheating boxes. Because you know what, in this instance and in life in general,

guilty until proven innocent. My first reaction was, I can't believe it. He wouldn't do that. Do you believe you'll be exonerated? I do. And I believe, you know, he went through the right procedure with the WBC and VADA.

That's who did the test. He was cleared. He was reinstated in the rankings. Everyone said, oh, he needs to go through UKAD and the British boxing border control. He turned around and he went, okay, I'll do that as well.

He spent hundreds of thousands going through that process and the result is imminent and I believe him and I've had so... It's one year since the test every day. I mean, I've had loads of stick.

He's had untold stick. And if he's cleared, which I believe he will be. I hope that some people understand what he went through. Well, look at Kevin Spacey, the actor who today got found not guilty on all these sex assault charges.

He's been already convicted by the court of public opinion on Twitter mercilessly, called the most horrendous things. And today, he's... He's come out an innocent man. Twitter and social media generally, it's an unforgiving court that just prosecutes people

without seeing evidence. And I feel that a little bit about Conabed. It would be interesting to see what happens on that. Before I let you go, how much are you worth? Me? If you died tomorrow? I don't know. Yes, you do.

I don't know. Yes, you do, Eddie Heard. We're doing all right. You know to the nearest family. I tell you what? We're doing all right, but I'll work like I'm skin every day. That's a good bar. And if you were prime minister,

which many people think you should be, You couldn't do a worse job than the Tories have done the last 10 years. Let's be honest. What's the first thing you do to fix this country? The first thing I would do would be to increase participation in sport for young children. Our young kids are in a terrible, terrible situation. Social media, disaster. Twitter, toxic.

You know, everybody that has ambition, everybody that has desire, everybody that has a strategy in their mind gets derailed by negativity by people who can't do it. We were saying, I put a video out just before we came out with me and you, right? and immediately in comes the abuse. About both of us, right? Now, we can handle it. We've got thick skins.

I say the one quality I really have is great is I've got an incredibly thick skin. It just watches off me. Most people I know in the public eye find it really hard. But, you know, we can say we've got a thick skin, which we have, you have, I have. But after waking up every morning,

it was a great, we said, you know, you wake up in a great mood. It's like, what on earth am I reading here? What is going on? And that, there's no point in infiltrating yourself with negativity. Life's too short. We can handle it. Kids can't. No. That's the difference. And they've been bombarded with constant

negative stuff. And the algorithms of content which is ultimately designed to feed the way they think. You see you see girls who are talking to each other about self-harming. Next thing TikTok is sending them loads of stuff on self-harming. Total disaster. It's feeding a horrible thing. And we, you know, parents have to

make sure that you limit that time. And we have to educate the kids. And I think the best way to educate is through sport. every time you see a kid put down their phone and participate with energy with a smile on their face

with a desire to win and compete it's the greatest thing to watch and whether it's boxing which I'm a massive fan of or the government need to make sure that we keep the opportunities because inner city schools

just don't have a sporting system I don't I went from a fee paying prep school at 12, 13 to comprehensive and I went from playing three hours to sport the day to nothing once a week if someone can find any kid or a teacher

just not good enough This country has to do that. I think sport is the answer, actually. It's good for well-being. It's good for physical, for mental, everything. Eddie, I could talk to you all night. And I felt your guns earlier. You did feel my guns.

And in fact, you would say, why you're not competing? I need your schedule. Thank you. Well, you may see my pinned tweet on Twitter, which is Ronaldo telling me what great abs I've got. Now, he knows all about abs. Eddie, great to see you. Come back again. I loved it.

We should do more. I really appreciate it. And you're so right about all of it. Thank you. Yes. I says the next. He's the world's most hated dictator. So what's behind the growing movement of commentators who hate Ukraine that love Vladimir Putin?

I'll debate with one of those next. Welcome back to Pittsburgh with Uncensored. Vladimir Putin is probably one of the most hated leaders in the world right now. That's what happens when you evade illegally a sovereign nation that order your army to slaughter to innocent people. But as well as opposing the West financial and military backing for Ukraine, a substantial movement of digital influences hold Putin in bizarrely high regard, praising him as a peace-loving leader who stands up for his country. Jackson Hinkle, a conservative commentator in YouTube over 266.

60,000 subscribers is a prominent voice in this pro-Putin community. He recently tweeted Putin has God on his side in his quest to defeat NATO Satanists. So why is he saying all this? Well, let's ask you. Do you know what I mean now is the Putin fan? YouTube Jackson, I'm the Russian-British host of the Trigonometry podcast, Constantine Kirsten. Okay, welcome to both of you. Jackson, I don't get it.

Vladimir Putin invaded illegally a democratic sovereign country, has wreaked total mayhem, he's killed innocent women, children, he's bombed maternity hospitals. He's been on a barbaric rampage. Why would you choose this moment to revere him? I would choose this moment because most of what is said about Vladimir Putin in the mainstream press

by talking heads like yourself is just factually not true, just like everything that people like you said about COVID. The fact of the matter is this war that everyone talks about, that so-called started on February 24th, 2022, actually began in 2014 after the U.S. led a violent coup on the Ukrainian government that was democratically elected. When people, specifically ethnic Russians in the Dombas, decided that they didn't want a U.S.

installed puppet government filled with Nazis, they vocalized their opinions. And for that, they were met with violence and aggression by the Ukrainian government, who slaughtered them for eight years. 15,000 people died in this fighting while Putin tried to achieve peace through the Minsk Accords and the Minsk Two Accords, all of which ended up being rejected by the Ukrainian government at the behest of Germany and the United States. The Ukrainian government continued to push forward despite the fact that Putin wanted peace, and they said that they wanted to join NATO. They said they wanted to have nukes right on Russia's border.

And because of that, Putin stepped in and said, hey, look, we're going to stop the bloodshed. we're going to stop the NATO escalation. We're going to stop the risk of potentially this unfolding into a full-fledged nuclear war, and we're going to do what needs to be done. We're going to liberate the ethnic Russians in Ukraine. We're going to denatify Ukraine, and we're going to denotify Ukraine.

I've given you a good chance to answer there. I've got to say a lot of that I thought was a crock of crap. But let me go to Constantine Kirsten. Constantine, I find this attitude completely mind-blown. There used to be a time when Americans in particular, particularly conservative Americans, When faced with a choice between a democratic sovereign country and a murderous Russian dictator invading them,

they wouldn't even hesitate to support the Ukrainians in this battle. What has happened that's turned people like this guy into Putin lovers who just think he's a man of peace? Well, he did say that Putin stepped into end of bloodshed, which I thought is interesting, given what's been going on in Ukraine for last year and a half. But actually, there's a history. I mean, first of all, isolationism is a policy that has had some support in America historically.

In fact, 1939, 1940, there were people marching up and down Times Square saying, Hitler hasn't done anything to us, let's have peace with Hitler. So Jackson is following in their footsteps there. But you were right in your introduction. This is a very online phenomenon. I was just in several conservative states in America,

West Virginia, Utah. You go around as Ukraine flags on most of the houses there. So this is quite a fringe position. But I think Jackson actually alluded to some of the reasons there is a growing movement of people who feel that they've been lied to by the mainstream media, quite rightly, by the way, particularly over things like COVID.

Yeah, yeah. And they've developed a sort of teenage oppositional defiance disorder where they now think that the truth is whatever is the opposite of what the mainstream is saying. And we've just heard a very good representation of that. Yeah. I mean, Jackson, I get that it's, you've got it. I don't know that we've lost our connection with you, unfortunately, which will immediately lead people on social media to claim it's a conspiracy. And we've silenced him.

That's not the case. as you saw, his head froze in mid-rant. We could hear his voice. Now we can't hear either, I think. So, constantly, let's just keep talking until we get Jackson back. I don't know where this mindset takes them. I always say to conservatives who come up with this kind of stuff, what did you feel about the invasion of Kuwait by Saddam Hussein, the first one?

Because they weren't part of NATO, Kuwait, and the Americans, along with the British, raced to throw Saddam Hussein out of there. I get told, well, he didn't have nuclear weapons. Well, we thought he did actually have weapons of mass destruction that whole period. But it didn't stop us doing what was morally the right thing to do. And it's that weird moral maze that they've all got themselves into where they're now defending the very person that historically conservatives would have railed against.

And a KGB colonel, of course, you remember that too. And it's interesting because one of the arguments people like Jackson make, it's a pity we've lost them because I'd love to have more of a debate. But one of the things they seem to think is that this guy is a representation of the Christian tradition, which is interesting because this is a man who's had several children out of wedlock with his mistress. And by the way, what's interesting is people like Jackson often talk about how under Vladimir Putin, Russia has become this great country. And by the way, Putin has stabilized Russia. There's no argument about that. But most of the elites in Russia have their children and their wives in Europe. This is interesting, isn't it?

because they claim that Russia's this great place under Vladimir Putin, yet all of those people place their families outside, which tells you a lot about what they actually think about the country. So we've got Jackson back, I think. Jackson, genuinely, the connection went down, so there's no conspiracy. We weren't trying to silence you. I just find it odd.

I mean, for arguments sake, when Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait, did you feel that he was a peace-loving guy that we should be instinctively supporting, or did you agree with American conservatives then that what should actually happen is Desert Storm and General Schwarzkopf should be leading the American charge to repel him?

And if you felt the latter, why would you feel differently about someone like Putin doing this in Ukraine? Well, I don't know if you know, Pierce. I'm only 23 years old, so I didn't have fully fledged opinions on that at the time. But what I think is very interesting is for all the Western officials

that are so outrage over what Putin is doing in Ukraine, why were they not outrage over what NATO did to Yugoslavia or what NATO did to Libya or what the United States did in Iraq and Afghanistan or Syria? The United States drone operation program in Africa had a 95% civilian death rate. For everyone to be so up in arms over Putin liberating these ethnic Russians in Ukraine from Nazis, it is just, I have no... Jackson, the trouble is, some of the stuff you said in your initial response is historically defensible.

You can argue from 2014, there's been this issue there. I get that. That's a perfectly reasonable thing to say. But when you say that Putin's only game here is to go and liberate the Ukrainians from Nazis, you just sound completely bonkers. Bonkers. Not to say there aren't some far-right people

with Nazi tendencies in Ukraine. There are, as there are in many countries. But the idea this is a Nazi-run country, when the president is Jewish, never mind anything else. is laughably ridiculous. Well, just because he's Jewish doesn't mean he's not sicking his Azov Nazi thugs

on ethnic Russians in the Dombash. You think a Jewish president is going to be actively promoting Nazism? That's your position. The ones with swastika tattoos and Hitler tattoos in Mario, for example. But what I'll say, Pierce, one question. One question. What I'll say is, if you're so outraged over the atrocities,

allegedly, of Putin in Ukraine, all these Ukrainians that have been killed, and you tweet about it nonstop, why did you not tweet once about the atrocities that were perpetrated by the Ukrainian government from 2014 to 2022 against those ethnic Russians in the Dombas? Well, yeah, constantly. Well, my family are actually largely ethnic Russians in Ukraine. The idea that there's a significant body of people in Ukraine who, by virtue of being ethnic Russians support what Vladimir Putin is doing, it's a complete hogwash, frankly.

And lots of other points that have been met. I mean, you're right. There are some far-right elements in Ukraine as there are in America. The Azov Battalion, the Jackson's referring to, was formed after Russia invaded in 2014. In the same way that if Mexico invaded the United States, there'll probably be some far-right people going out and fighting there. So he's got the whole thing backwards, which is not surprising.

You know what? We can probably explore this in more detail. I mean, Will, Jackson. I've got no desire to censor you, to stop you having your views. You're entitled to them. I will challenge them. We ran out of time tonight, but I think we should do this again another time. You can have a platform here.

We can talk about these things because a lot of people seem to agree with you, which I find baffling, but that's the reality. So thank you for joining Pierce Morgan on Census tonight. Constantine, always good to see you. On Census next tonight, Kevin Spacey, which today found not guilty of sexually assaulted four men, putting it into years of legal action against the actor. Did they now in the clear, will he be able to revive his Hollywood career, like, say, Johnny Depp has done?

And if not, why not? Well, that's next. Welcome to all of you. I want to start with you, Douglas. Kevin Spacey, a dramatic turn of events today, where Kevin Spacey was found not guilty of all charges in the sex assault case. This, despite being already convicted by the inevitable court of public opinion on social media for a year. This is what he said when he came out of court afterwards.

I would like to say that I'm enormously grateful to the jury. for having taken the time to examine all of the evidence and all of the facts carefully before they reach their decision. And I am humbled by the outcome today. And what was interesting, I thought, Douglas, was the number of people I've heard on the airways, commentators, broadcasters and so on, saying, you know, despite this, it's going to be almost impossible for Kevin Spacey to get his career back. in Hollywood to which my response instinctively is why the guys just be found not guilty right right how have we got this to me is the is the personification of cancel culture where someone is

found innocent on all charges and yet there's a kind of presumption that he can't return to his previous career well one thing peers is i mean you said that this is a surprising verdict it's not surprising at all Kevin spacey's been exonerated at each of the trials he's been been put through. He was exonerated in the US last year. He was exonerated today in London. Anyone who followed the US trial, the civil case of Anthony Rapp, knows that Anthony Rapp made false allegations against Kevin Spacey that were proved to be false in the US court. Now, if anyone followed closely, the incredibly weak, appalling case that the CPS brought against him in the UK. The four claimants had one of the ones.

The weakest cases I have ever seen brought before a jury. And nobody who followed this case could possibly be surprised that the jury came back saying that Kevin Spacey was innocent. He has been repeatedly proven innocent in court. For six years now, he has been put through the most incredibly intense cancellation you could possibly imagine, six years of false allegations against him and a destroyed career. And just remember before this, he was one. one of the most successful actors on the planet.

House of Cars was the most successful show on Netflix. This shows what happens when a society loses grip of the idea of innocent until proven guilty and decides always believe the alleged victim. Because you know what? Sometimes the alleged victim is an absolute provable liar. And that has been the case in the trials of Kevin Spacey. And I wish that our society would learn something from it. Yeah, listen, Grace, it's, you know, I look at Kevin Spacey, I see a guy, life ruined, he's got no money left, apparently, he came out in court, he's got no career, no one will hire him, everyone dropped him like a sack of spuds, social media persecutes him mercilessly, convicts him and so on.

What does it say about our society that this guy, turns out to have been innocent of all charges, but he's dead and buried in terms of his career? I don't know if it says something about our society. you know, these cases are complicated. They're always incredibly complicated because they often boil down to he said, she said. Obviously, it is incredibly important to maintain this idea of innocent and proven guilty, until proven guilty.

But I'm talking about what's kind of been being discussed behind the scenes, what, you know, if people say he's not going to work again, what, you know, there's always this idea of there are people who, it's an open secret that they do X or WI or they're a bit inappropriate. I'm talking specifically about the court of public opinion fueled on social media.

which is so merciless that it makes people so damaged by the... You know, as well as I do, Piers, that that is what happens when you put yourself into the public eye. You know, there are going to be people who are going to want to take you down. And, you know, we have a legal system for this reason. It's to try and get to the truth at the bottom of some of these allegations

to make sure that people are, that these things legally, at least, do abide by the principle of innocent until proven guilty. There's nothing you can do short of literally censoring free speech to stop public figures from being attacked. Well, actually, what you can do, Esther, I mean, I saw that on the Hugh Edwards story, for example, when a lot of other BBC male presenters started being inaccurately accused of being that person, Jeremy Vine was one of the people who took legal action against one of these people,

and actually did make the person pay a thousand pounds to a charity. Maybe public figures just do need to start suing people on social media on a regular basis. To make them realize, you can't just say everything you want when you feel like it. when someone's facing a trial that could be the end of their entire careers. Well, that's certainly part of it. But I think two things need to be done here. One, if a claimant in a case like this

has proven to be a liar, they need to be prosecuted. We really need to tighten the laws on these things because these acutely affects people that are in the public eye. If it's proven, if it's proven, because it's difficult, because then you don't want to disincentivize people that are genuinely going to use.

That's what I know. Social media companies do not abide by the same regulations that say the print media do or broadcast media do. It's a massive problem. Well, they don't abide by really any regulations. Because their platforms, not publishers. But I think it's insane.

They are publishers and they should be triggered as publishers. But is that not censoring free speech? Are we not on uncensored? Douglas, you want to come in? I need to make a point about this because actually this isn't just about social media. It's also about the media. The media went huge internationally

when Anthony Rapp made his initial provably false allegation about Kevin Spacey. The international media around the world went huge on that allegation. it was only an allegation. Now, of course, social media then whipped it along and made it even worse and made his career even more in tatters.

But if you look at the fact how many viewers know that Kevin Spacey was exonerated last year in the US courts on the Anthony rap charges? This is a fault of the media as well. The media very often whip along the initial claims and do not cover the subsequent judicial findings. And that is a major problem of the media, not just of social media.

I think it's legit, because a lot of the media doesn't cover things that they consider to be boring. And that's like a massive problem. We have this media that's driven by like clicks. Well, I mean, we can blame the media, but I think the bigger conversation is culture, right? Just for every person that is saying that Kevin Spacey was guilty, there needs to be 10 people saying wait until he has been proven guilty.

We don't see that on social media. And the reason for it is because we are so averse to seeing someone being accused of sexual assault, not fraud or other crimes, that they are automatically assumed to be guilty. For every person that said Kevin Spacey was guilty, there should have been 10 people saying, wait until he's been proven guilty. That's the problem.

One other thing. One other thing, if I may, which is the problem of this is, the social media thing is you have rapacious hordes of people who want to demonstrate their ostentatious horror and apparent virtue by standing as being opponents of the claim.

But you do not find rampacious hordes of people going around social media, trying to show that people are innocent. We only have the culture of accusation. It is the Salem Wish trials. It is. And it's McCarthyite and it's horrible and it's out of control. And as more and more people go onto social media,

it just gets worse and worse. And I think something has to give. These tech companies have to be held more accountable for what they allow to be published on their platforms. I mean, wouldn't, I don't actually know what stance you took on this issue, so can you remind me? But when it's like Donald Trump was banned from Twitter, what was your view on that?

I don't think he should have been. Well, I mean, where are we supposed to draw the line here? I don't think you should be banning any president of the United States. If we're giving, you know, unlimited power. Well, I don't think you should be able to be able to think. Let me explain. Let me say. Most of these people should have that much power.

I think it's a different case. I don't think Elon Musk should have that much power. My argument was if you're going to allow the Ayatollah of Iran and the Taliban of Vladimir Putin to have Twitter accounts, you can't remove Donald Trump. You know, if someone says Trump's done hate speech, I personally don't think Elon Musk, a private billionaire who's, you know, a weird guy. He can't be given that much power? Well, he's allowed to be. If you pay $44 billion, you can do what you like. Oh, really?

Can you? You can do what you like? You can say what you like if you have enough money, right? Just said that to wind you up and it worked. Esther, Mick Jagger. So Mick Jagger's 80 years old today. Quick reaction. Can I call him crusty?

Anyway, happy birthday. No, you cannot. Happy birthday, Mick Jagger. Please stop having kids. Douglas Murray, Mick Jagger is the same age as Joe Biden. I mean, is there not evidence right there that Joe Biden's problem is not his age. it's everything else. All I can say is that if Mick Jagger were running for president, I'd back him.

Grace, final word, Mick Jagger, come on. Are you saying what are you asking me when you say Mick Jagger, come on? That's the problem. I'm not asking you, have you? That's what you're worried about? I mean, no, what? I mean, happy birthday to him, but listen. Happy birthday to Mick Jagger.

Can't we all embrace Mick Jagger at 80? The greatest option in the world, right? He needs to give up on the little blue pill. No, he doesn't. He doesn't give anything. Credible energy, great role model, loves Sir Mick Jagger, the greatest front man in the history of rock music.

Happy birthday, Mick. Keep on rocking. Keep giving us satisfaction. That's it from me. Thank you, Douglas. Thank you, Grace, thank you, Esther. Whatever you're up to tonight, keep it like Mick Jagger, uncensored.

Oh, do not.