Piers Morgan Uncensored - Piers Morgan Uncensored: Frankie Dettori

Episode Date: January 11, 2024

On Piers Morgan Uncensored: From Los Angeles, A remarkably revealing interview with racing legend ⁦Frankie Dettori⁩ on life, love, cheating death, his Royal friends, and why he abandoned retirement to seek new glory in America. Watch Piers Morgan Uncensored at 8pm on TalkTV on Sky 522, Virgin Media 606, Freeview 237 and Freesat 217. Listen on DAB+ and the app.  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Tonight on Piers Morgan Uncensored, I've come to Santa Anita Racetrack in Los Angeles, one of the great sporting arenas in America. I've come here because Frankie Detoury, one of the great jockeys in history, and certainly the most charismatic. And last year in England, and went on a farewell tour that was so successful, he's ended up unretiring. A scoop for you guys. I've decided to prolong my career.

I'm going to go to the United States from next year and keep. people following me. He wanted the new challenge and he's come here to America to pursue it right here on this track and he's already having great success. Frankie goes to Hollywood. And I gotta be very uncensored. That is definitely true. So Frankie, last time I spoke to you, you had retired.

Yes. That was it. You were never getting back on a horse competitively again and yet here I find you in Hollywood. Frankie's gone to Hollywood. So why did you change your mind? So basically when I started this year, no, sorry, last year. I thought, well, I'm going to be 53.

I'm going to stop at the top. Obviously, we talked about this before, you know, watching the World Cup, see Ronaldo on the bench. And I thought, well, I want to stop. And then people remember that I was good. I don't want to stop that, you know, I can't get a ride. And then I said, well, I give myself a year. I want to say goodbye to everyone.

all the countries that I've been, including my own Italian country. And then when I started, I started winning, and then I thought, well, this is not going to carry on. And then I kept to winning, I kept to winning, and I got to about August, and just couldn't stop winning. And I started having regrets, thinking, you know, am I really to stop? You know, I'm still in demand. But because I made such a big deal that I was going to stop,

and everybody else made it such a big deal. It was the greatest farewell tool since Sanatra. Yeah, including a lifestyle statue unveiled by Queen Camilla Alaska. But then, you know, I have to leave with myself. And I thought, well, I'm not ready to stop because I'm still doing so well. But I kind of run out of avenues because it would have been foolish to say it would have carried on in England after what I said. So I only had one option to come here in California where I like very much. much and it'll just give me a little bit extra time to get out of my system it's a it's a

stunning race right I mean I've had a home in LA for a long time I've never been here you come here in the morning it's early only you would get me out of bed this early and you come and you the sun was coming up and the magical scene of the Santa and it's a track it's really it's a magical place is amazing I'll be honest with you it is probably the one of the best looking tracks in the world with the mountains in the backdrop The track itself is set in a beautiful piece of land. You got this massive palm trees in the middle of it. Yeah, I mean, the light, I mean, if that doesn't take your breath away,

no other tracks will. And every morning when I come here, I feel like I'm blessed to be able to, you know, enjoy my last bit to my career in such a beautiful place. Interestingly, at the very start of your career, you did come here. And you did a couple of years, maybe it was? I did four winters here. I came here when I was 16 as an illegal worker. I came here on a tourist visa. And I mean, the first couple of weeks I go into the track

without getting caught. And then eventually I got caught by security, so I had to use other entrances to get in. When I've spoken to you, we've known each other a long time, about the hard reality of being a jockey. Yeah. the amount of injuries you sustain.

And this is not even jump stuff. This is just flat racing. Talk me through the injuries you've had over the years. Well, first of all, you know, we go extra fast. We go over 40 miles an hour. And, you know, we actually about six foot off the ground. So, and we raise inches to each other. Do you have any padding at all or not?

We have little paddy, but there's not. Because obviously weight is a big issue. So you can't put an arm, like a hammer around you because he weighs. And so one little mistake can end up in an accident. And when you go that fast and that speed, you break. You know, we were talking about, I mean, I feel like one of the blessed ones. I did, you know, I broke my uncle twice, both of my elbows. I broke my collar board. I brought my shoulder. Ribs, fingers. And I feel like, you know, actually I did all right. Really?

Yeah. There's a lot of people in my... my sport that broke a lot more. I mean, when you start this job, the smell, the speed, the adrenaline, the crowd, the excitement gets you sucked into this sport. You never feel or think about the danger, you know. I mean, if you knew when you were going to fall, you wouldn't do it because it is dangerous. But what I said to you just now, the highs overpower. were the laws of getting injured and messing yourself up.

You know, like I said, when you... What was the toughest injury you got? Tough injuries, I mean, they're all tough, you know, because... What was the hardest to get back from? Well, when I brought my uncle that took a long time because obviously you need your uncle to balance the stirrups. Shoulder again, that fixed quickly, but then the pain was there for a year. You know, every injury is bad because, like,

every sportsman will tell you, we always try to come back earlier than it should have done, because we don't want to miss out. You know, because the longer you stay off, then, you're in danger of missing off on a good horse. How much you've had 3,000 winners? You've had three decades of racing. About that. Yeah, I mean, it's incredible stats, right? This is my 37th year, can you imagine.

How much of that percentage-wise have you spent in some form of paint? You get used to it. I can't really do know much percentage. You were guessing? I would say a quarter of it. Really? Yeah, a quarter of my career. You know, then you always had some sort of...

You're something. Yes. You don't think like that because, you know, it's always a dangling carer. It's always a big race coming up. It's always that chance that you will win a big race somewhere. And that kind of is the best pain killer in the world. in the world.

The other really tough physical demand of racing is your weight. Yes. What is your fighting way? What's your best weight would you say? In America, yeah, I ride at under 18 pounds, what is the equivalent of 8-106 in English pounds. About half a Morgan. Yes.

I would say my body weight be a storm than there. I'd probably be about nine. 9-10 if I eat on normal life. So what do you have to do to hit that racing way? Basically, I train myself not to eat bad things for the last 30 years. The average day, what would you consider? I don't eat bread, I don't eat junk food. I have a little snack in the morning and just try to have one meal in the evening.

Mainly protein, salads, fish, chicken. I don't eat meat very often, but it depends on people. But, you know, I won't be lying to you. I sometimes have a piece of chocolate or, you know, I probably have one bowl of pasta every three months. You know, I train every day to keep my weight down. You know, it is a lifestyle, you know. It's a lifestyle.

It's a big sacrifice. It's a big sacrifice. The 37 years. Yeah. And, you know, it sounds funny, but I, even when I do have time off, I always go and reach for a chicky, scissors, salad. You never see me eat a burger. Because I think my body now can't take it anymore.

Can you drink alcohol or not? I like wine because I'm Italian, yes, but in moderation. But like I said, my body is now used to not having those kind of rich food. Yeah, I'll be honest. I'm now then finishing my career. I'm finding easier. Maybe because, you know, I have a routine. I don't go out as much.

That's why California suits me. I mean, everything shuts up here. It does, yeah. But, you know, I guess 10 years ago and I wanted to go out every night did not suit me, but. You've talked before about being bulimic at various stages? I did 10 years of being bollemic, yes.

I guess in my, between my 30s and 40s. And you would throw up before race, isn't it? Yeah, before. I would have a meal and night and throw up, or sometimes I would have a big breakfast and throw up. But I didn't do it because I wanted. to do it. I did it because the skill doesn't lies. It was

a way of lifestyle that I chose to have. You know, not different to I guess models have the same problems or teenage kids. They were not a jockey I think you said you do. You had to use lots of laxatives, diuretic, everything. I tried everything. I tried

diuretic pills, laxatives. Made myself sick. I remember driving car with a sweatsuit with the heaters on. You know, you try, you try extreme things in your job because you have to do the weight. I don't think anybody has done what I've done and people still do it, they actually choose debt because they like it.

It's because they have to do the weight. Simple is that. It's a physically very hard sport. Yes. I don't think most people realize, until they listen to someone like you talk about it, just how physically demanding it is. First of all, like we explain, is,

is the diet. Then you have to be ultra fit because in a space of a day you can rise six or eight races. And you know, you handle in a thousand pounds worth of absolute explosive flesh. I mean, these horses are powerful and you have to control them. And so that's a physical demand, the diet and then also the injuries. You know what I mean? When you do have the injuries, you have to cope with that. So overall, I mean, I didn't sell it very well. right if you want to become the well I think it's the reality of it right it's the reality but you know we do it because

we are addicted to it with that feeling I mean I watched a tape last night preparing for this interview when you went through the card of oil basket and won all seven races only time anyone's ever done that and the last race you're on a horse where you don't think you got a chance of winning what's the name of the horse Fujama crest right and you're you're leading but Pat Edry is coming behind you I could hear him you can hear his whip I could hear

I think he's going to be, he's going to be, and somehow you get a second win with this horse, and it wins. That moment when you crossed the line and knew you'd gone through the card at Royal Aska, what is that like? What's that feeling like? You get that feeling of basically it's like everything, when you cross that line, everything just goes in slow motions. You're just, you know, you're just galloping on top of this source, you got time to look at a crowd, and everybody's going ballistic. They only last for a few seconds, and you're back to real life. And it's, you know, in a way, it's very selfish. It's an emotion that nobody can, you can ever explain.

I mean, like I said, never mind the dangers, but the crowd, the smell, the speed, the excitement, and you cross that line, and the euphoria what hits you is incredible. And that's why you get addicted and that's why I do it. And is that why you can't really. give it up. Yes. You know, obviously it'd be much easier if I didn't get a chance of winning that many. You don't need the money, right? I mean, you've made enough money not to worry about that. Yeah, but you do it because you love it because otherwise it's hard to let go. You know, I go great sympathies for the sportsmen that to stop. I mean, I stopped for the week and I didn't

like it. So, you know, I'm, I know 53 sounds a big number, but I'm, I know, I'm not 53 sounds a big number, I still feel that I'm still competitive, even though that I'm racing with jockeys 30 years younger than me. Well, how many of them actually weren't even alive when you started? I would say 70%. Really? It was crazy, right? That's nuts.

It's crazy. And how do they treat you? It's funny because now we call it the jocks room. I love this jockey room. This is amazing bit of history. This place is timeless. You can come here at 16 or 15. 53, we all the same age.

It's only when you step out of there that you feel your age. But when you come here it's great banter, we all treat each other the same and if you do something wrong, everybody jumps on you. What about this? Because I always think in any sport what differentiates the good from the great is

a mental thing. Absolutely, absolutely. And that comes with experience. Nobody is born with that great mindset, experiences of life, circumstances, emotions. You know, when you're young, you have emotions, but you don't know

how to deal with them, right? So as you get older, you deal with emotions, with when you get butterflies, when you're nervous. You know, I'm not different to anyone. Even in my age, I still get a dry mouth, you know. If I ride a favorite, it's a big race. I'm the first one to tell you. Of course I'm nervous, but nervous is good, because now I know how to deal with it.

But you can't teach that. that you're going to learn it. You've also got to have, in your sport in particular, a ferocious work ethic, right? You have to. Yeah. You can't wing it, can you? No, you can't.

Physically, you're going to be ultra-fit. You've got to put your own work. But also, you've got to have that natural touch. You know, you can work as much you can. But sometimes you're going to let things happen. You're going to use your natural instincts. You cannot predict how the race is going to go. Or no strike can predict how he's going to score.

but you've got to use your natural ability. And that's a difference from being a normal jockey to be a superstar. And it applies the same to any other sport. You know, when you see geniuses like messy, you know, they do things that, I don't think they... Who do you most admire in other sports? Oh, my other sports, you know,

obviously I'm a big football supporter. I even admire the boxes, the work affected they have to put up. the rugby players, you know, I don't know too much about cricket, but you know, sometimes you see like the World Cup this year was, you know, I know India got beat, but it was an amazing game. You know, I like all these great sporting events and as you know, the Super Bowls coming up, that's be another amazing event. You've had two moments in your life since you became a professional jockey which could have ended everything. One, your own fault, and I'll come to that in a moment. This, the first

One though was the plane crash, which is really one of those moments in your life where it was a light aircraft. You were going from one race course to another. The pilot very sadly died. You were with your great friend and manager Ray Cochran at the time. You both managed to get out just before it all went up in flames. What do you remember about what happened that day? Well, I remember about in a nutshell, I can explain it. It'll take hours. But basically, on takeoff, something went wrong. A plane went down. What were you feeling as it went down? What were you feeling when I was down? I looked at Ray and as I was staring as the ground was approaching,

I didn't have time to scream. And I was just disappointed and I was going to die. I was thinking to myself, I'm 29 years old. I just had the six months child. Why are you taking me now? I was just disappointed. Why now? I got so much to look forward in life.

That's all I felt. You really thought you were about to die? That's it. No two questions about it. Some miracle. What was the landing like? The sun miracle, well, the wing of the plane clipped this bank, what made the plane rotate.

Anyway, never mind that. So it was just like an enormous speed in the Washington. machine, I don't know what happened. Can you remember that? Yeah, I remember the impact. And then I obviously, my skin on my forehead went all the way back. So my blood was pouring in front of my face.

And I was in a state of concussion, I guess, where I had 180 vision. I could see the two planes, two engines on fire. And I saw the pilot inch down in front. but I couldn't move I was just paralyzed I just couldn't I knew that I'd to get out but I could not move

and then Ray gave me a notch I was next to me and he kind of woke me up and I realized that I broke my leg and where I went to get out you know it was a six-seater twin engine the plane was like in bits the door didn't exist

anymore and luckily for us the luggage door was just in the back of the seat was half open and as I crawled out I realized at the broken leg Ray pushed me out

then he crawled out and he dragged me away from here to the end of the room and he was concerned that because so much feel was on the plane that he could all go up and then he tried he took his jacket off and he tried to go back for the pilot and the plane exploded

and he was burned from head to toe and he It was, you know, I couldn't, I could eat him yelling of anger because he couldn't get the pilot out. So, you know, it was a trauma for me. I lost my good friend, my pilot. I was lucky twice, lucky to be alive, the crash, and lucky to be alive, the wrecked, got me out of that plane. I couldn't be burned alive. You know, it took me 17 years to get back on the plane.

Did it really? Yeah. I mean, I was scarred, and even now, and again. How long? between you getting out of the wreckage and it going up. Was it? Seconds. Really?

Seconds. So you were seconds from just... Yeah. I mean, you imagine the two wings playing full of few seconds. So Ray saved your life? He did, yeah. Yeah, and save my life and I owe him my life, and when he had big neck problems after the crash,

so I told him to quit racing and he became my manager for 20 years. So... Do you ever talk about it together? Ray never talked about it. We talked about it 20 years after. Really? Yeah. We had a toast together.

Ray is a very deep man. You know, yeah, never talked about it. And I'm now going personally. He's talked about, he never, kept it to himself. And yeah. I mean, you can't explain what we've been through. And there is ways to deal with it. Perhaps I should have seek help, but, you know, I had good family around me, and, you know, well, you know, I shouldn't be here.

It's an extraordinary story. Mad. Yeah, twice. And I read that later you were thinking, you were 29, you were thinking you'd always wanted, as an ambition, a young Italian, to buy a Ferrari. And you just thought, well, what am I waiting for? I could have died just, just then. And you went and bought a Ferrari. I said to myself, when I get to 30, if I'm going off my car, you know, I get to 30, if I'm going off

I love to get a Ferrari, be in Italy. And at 29 and a half, after I got out of the hospital, as soon as I could work a little bit, I went to get myself one, I thought, you know, why? And, you know, it did change my life. And, you know, I would say, I was, if that didn't happen, I probably would have been more successful in my career. But, you know, I become...

Why? Because you spent more time with family. Yeah, I was more focused than I didn't. I was total vision. But after that, you know, family... I've got five children. You know, I juggle life and ride in and try to get the boost of both worlds. And, you know, a lot of times you think, you know, why should you get upset? You know, after this, what happened to me, a lot of things really don't really matter, you know.

The other thing that could have ended everything for you professionally was when you tested positive for cocaine in 2012. But you really struggled for quite a long time, 18 months, to get another good ride. you thought maybe that's it. That was a self-inflicted wound. When you look back at that, I mean, obviously, fortunately, you had a sort of savior who came along and picked you up and said, right, I'm going to back you.

So basically, yeah, look, I was a silly boy, you know, went out, took some drugs, got tested a week later, and it was in my system. I wasn't doing it because it was right. It was more recreational. And, yeah, quite rightly so. I omitted it. I go six months banned.

I took my family out of school, we were around the world because obviously, they were getting bullied, they were getting picked out of school, you know, I had paparazzi outside my house. How does that make you feel that you brought that on everyone? Not great. I think the biggest disappointment is telling my own parents. How did they react?

Not great, my dad being old-fashioned. Kids, you know, they thought it was quite funny, having paparazzi outside had to smuggle me in and out of the car with a blanket. We had a good time together around the world and I served my time but did my six months. I came back and I thought, well, everything's going to be on Kedori, come back. But, you know, obviously nobody would touch me, you know, for some reason. You said you felt like a leopard. Yeah, I mean, I took it, you know, it took me, I just couldn't get a ride for about a year.

And then, yeah, I got to a point a year later. I couldn't see the light at the end of the tunnel. I thought, well, I've got no other choice. I can't get any business or maybe I have to look to do something else. What would you have done if you hadn't been? Just probably maybe going to the media. But I wasn't ready to quit.

How are you feeling in that wilderness period? I felt terrible. I felt terrible and then the worst thing was even my wife started doubting me, you know. She said to me the famous world, show me how good you are. Really? One day, you know, we were struggling to pay bills and things were going bad and we all end up in an argument. And she'd tell her, you know, all your life you're telling me how good you are,

look at us now, we can't pay bills, just show me how good you are. Wow, that's a moment. And that was like, you know, somebody shot me in the heart, right, coming from my own wife. And that really got me fired right up. And I just said nothing and I put my head down and persisted. I carried on, carried on, and 18 months later, a year later, I goes and win the Epson Derby on Golden Horn, and we had a massive party at home, a few drinks with friends.

That feeling when he crossed the line and he won the door. Oh, that was amazing a feeling, but the feeling was when I got home and we did the party. Did you say to your wife, that's how good I am? So basically when everybody left the house and we were sitting there, and I said, do you ever what you said to me here you go? I said, that's it. I said, don't ask me again. I've done it now, so that was it.

What did she say? I actually said that at the time I needed something like that to make me believe or to give me a push. And, yeah, I mean, those famous words, show me how good you are. They imprinted in my house, trust me. That's an amazing story. Matt. But, you know, I think sometimes we all need someone to, to touch that nerve.

Yes. Fire you up again. And that's, at the time, that's what I need. And, you know, who about a person than your own wife who knows me so well to just, you know? She said, you know, I just needed to say that. And it worked. How important has she been, Catherine, to you? Well, you know, she's been with me 30 years.

I mean, I feel sorry for her than I brought her through this crazy life, you know, never mind. self-inflicted stupid things that I've done, playing crashes, nearly kill myself, every day worried that I could end up in hospital when I ride. You know,

it must be a worry for a woman to marry somebody like me, but she stood with me, we had some amazing times together, and, you know, she's been so good to me. Do you remember when you proposed to her? I did, yeah. I was in Scalini,

one of my favorite Italian restaurant in London, and yeah it was a nice afternoon in London and I got a man here and I remember everybody in the restaurant in the restaurant everybody stood up and clapped really yeah it was sweet you have a ring? I did have the ring yes yeah of course and also I was taught because I'm not English

I was told that to go and see the father then I went to see Gaffrey's dad the night before and I got a full lecture from his father and how did you sell yourself to him well I said listen I came to ask the hand of your door He sat me down. He said, listen, he said, before you start this, she's going to finish her studies. You're going to look after her. Give me a proper washdown, proper good English washdown. But yeah, great. Yeah, I'm, you know, five kids.

What's the secret to her lasting marriage, do you think? I think we don't leave each other's pocket. She lets me get on with what I have to do. She's been ultra busy with children And we're meeting in the middle You know, we have our own things that we like And you know, she just gives me free range to be What I have to be, you know

You know, I'm sure man of the races That's what I am and she just lets me do you know what I have to do What is very important that to have that backing The other family that you've been very attached to is the royal family Yeah Who love you and you love them Particularly you had an amazing amazing relationship with Her Majesty of the Queen, the late great Queen.

When did you first meet her? Do you remember? Of course, I did. I know I knew over 30 years. Back in the days when I was in my early 20s, I used to write for the trainer called Ian Bowling. And Ian Bullden had most of the Queen's horses. And so that's how I met her. And, you know, even 30 years, then I met her every time I met her. nervous wreck she had this horror but she always

had the ability to make you feel to make you feel good so I'll tell you a funny story I want I want a big race 15 years ago and it was a Sunday so after racing I had a big party was a lovely

spring day and I left all the doors open I had dogs and 200 people turned up with an amazing party and I woke up the next day and the house was destroyed full of bottles. And I realized I lost one of my dogs, but she had a tag. And it was a message on the answer machine,

and the message said, I, we found your dog. Please call us back on this number. And the lady who found the dog was Caroline Warren, the queen racing manager's wife. So I ran Caroline, said, aye, Caroline. Sorry, but I heard that you. you have my dog, can I come and collect it? And she said, listen, if you come this evening,

the queen's coming to Newmarket to see the horses in the morning. So you can say hi to the queen and pick up the dog. I mean, great idea. So my wife's in the courtyard. She's cleaning the ponies, and I opened the window. I said, honey, I found the dog. And she said, where is the dog? Oh, the queen's got it.

She said, don't be silly. No, I swear the queen's got, I'm going to pick her up tonight. So my daughter, go all dressed up. We went to get the dog. And then she was. She was having a gin and tonic next to the fire. And I had a gin and tonic with her. And she spent 20 minutes talking to my daughter about ponies and about school.

And then they let the dog out. The dog run towards me and peed in the Persian carpet. In front of the queen. of the Queen of John Warren. And the Queen started laughing. And John got really red face, got really upset. In that moment, I go escorted out. We got to have dinner now.

You better go, thank you about it. But the Queen was just increased laughing. She was so funny to be around. She also had an amazing knowledge of horse racing. This wasn't someone who did it as like a little mild hobby. She knew everything, right? Yes, six years. Listen, it's incredible.

She wrote and she was in the horse racing. the 90s around Windsor Park. And yeah, of course, she bred horses for six years. You rode 50 winners for her. Yeah, it was over 50 winners, yeah. Amazing. Did it always feel a little bit extra special when you want a race for the queen? But it's, you know, when you got her colors in the peg like that, there was already

excitement, you know, and, you know, amazing. She's a royal, you know. I mean, she was racing. Her family started racing 300 years ago. King Charles the first 350 years ago. So racing is in the blood and she had so much knowledge and she loved that. She absolutely loved racing. Didn't you used to occasionally try a Cockney accent with her?

You know, she used to, I tried but didn't go very well. What was it you said to her? How are you? What did she say? She said to me, I'm still here. Usually she's bowing your majesty, but I kind of. froze and I went, how I? And she went, I'm still here.

But she was, she was... What would you talk about just generally when you saw it? Everything. She liked to hear the gossip about the inside gossip. Ooh, you know, which train I was going out with? Really? Yeah, all the juicy gossip. Really? Yes. Yeah.

Yeah, she was very interested about that. And, you know, she just loved to be around racing people. When she died, it was a huge moment for... the country. You're a kind of anglicized Italian, you're Italian, but you've obviously spent a lot of time in England. What was that moment like for you? How did you hear that she died? Well, I saw, the last time I saw her was a Royal Ascot, and she obviously quite frail. She couldn't get up and up and down the stairs. And they made the little room next to the paddock so she could watch the racing. And to a point, I nearly took the horse inside the little booth.

to shore the horse. And, yeah, and, you know, you always feel she's immortal. And when it does happen, it's a shock. You know, because I felt she was immortal. And I remember we were meant to race at Doncaster the night and the race got canceled quite rightly. So, yeah, and it just...

How did you hear? I think we just heard on the... the radio, I think, from a phone call. And, yeah, I'm just... I felt quite emotional, well, I was just... It comes a shock, real shock. Like I said, because, you know, I always felt that she was immortal. And, you know, we lost a great person, a grey monarch.

Well, a great person, and, you know, I'm the first one to say that I met her for 30 years. You know, she really touched me the way she made you feel and the way she was. and you know, I'm not the only one. I mean, I would say millions of people feel the same. But actually very few would have had the access you did. Yeah. All that kind of relationship because she loved horse riding, racing almost as much as anything else in her life.

Yeah, you know, probably saw the other side of it. I mean, a lot of times I saw her in events. And she would make a detour to find somebody into racing because she kind of find that exciting. I'm very lucky. And also, the new king, you know, I was, you know, I never really met King's charge like I did this year. You know, he came to Royal Alaska five days straight.

To a point on day five, actually I was invited to have lunch at Windsor Castle on day five. And I did the ride on the carriage. And it turned around to me and said, you know, my mom would have been. I'm proud to see me race in five days straight. So I think we got him interested in Australia and it's good because it's nice to keep the tradition. And especially now that we are in this jockey's room.

I feel very proud that he's beginning to enjoy racing. You recently went to the jungle in Australia, competing in I'm a celebrity. You were the first to be kicked out of there, which I think is probably a blessing. I don't know why you might have been. Me too, me too. But at least you haven't got to stay in there with these. Was it even remotely an enjoyable experience, or is it just as awful as I imagine it is? Well, it was exactly what I thought.

You know, you've got to have a mindset. And if you've got to chink in your arm, but in your weaknesses, he's going to find you. You know, it's an austere where we are. You sleep in a bench. You eat rice and beans. The dungy or the toilet, I used to call it, is all on the ground, or less. the humidity and the loneliness, you know, because you're there by yourself. Okay, you're with other people.

You go, no watch, no contact from the outside world. How did you feel about being the first to leave? I don't really know what was televised on TV because I was there 24 hours and they cut it down into one hour. And talking to the people outside, the broad interest of politics, Nigel Farage, or people arguing. You know, I'm not a fighter.

I'm a lover. I had a great time in there, but they never air-showed all the fun times than I had. They were more interested about what Nigel Farage or Britney Spears' sister were going to say. Of course. They didn't care what a jockey were going to say. But, you know, it was an experience, and I've done it. I'll tick that box, and that's it.

You also were named in the top six nominees for the sports personalities of a year on the BBC. They're very prestigious. You've won it many years ago. to be in the top six when you're 53 years old of the top six sports people in Britain is pretty incredible that. I think the only one born when I started riding was too abroad.

All the others weren't even born. It's quite scary. Yeah, amazing. Obviously, this late in my career and also racing is not a football, cricket, tennis, rugby sport, followed or like the Olympics. a great privilege for me to be nominated,

and also for my sport, you know, because I promote myself. I also like to promote my sport. How did you feel about a member of the women's lionesses team winning, given they actually hadn't had a very good year? They lost the World Cup, they didn't qualify for the Olympics, and they still won it, having won it the year before. Maybe I should lose a bit more to get in the top three.

Should it only go to people who've actually won something that year? I saw your podcast you did. I agree with you, but even through abroad. I mean, amazing, it's last year. He won everything and he didn't win it either. But it's what people watch or like. I'll be becoming, Frankie, a country which has moved from celebrating great champions and winners to now we almost celebrate losing.

That's what it feels to me. We've moved as a society from a really good... The underdog. Yeah, but I don't even the underdog. Just, okay, you've lost. We're going to give you a participation prize, right? Perhaps, perhaps so, you know, I must say all those six nominees, including myself. I mean, you know, we all had, we don't something great.

But, you know, it's down to the public to decide. And I'm not bitter, like I said, already been nominated. I feel like a winner. What's been the greatest accolade for you? You've won so many things. What's the one that met the most to you? Well, I'll be honest with you. My biggest achievement, obviously,

winning seven races in a day. But overall, you know, being on top of my game for 30 years, it's hard enough to do it for 10. So to do it for 30, I can sit here and be proud of it. But, you know, I'm still competitive at 53. How long do you think you can realistically continue for? How long is a piece of string? You're going to be like Sinatra.

Just keep retiring and coming back. Well, no, listen, I'm not going to. I feel like this is my last bit of my career here in California. I enjoy it. You know, if you can get one or two more years out of it, it would be great. But in my sport, you never know. you know, fingers crossed, then I don't have any accident and I've still competitive enough. And if you can get, like I said, one or two years, be great pieces of years.

Do you like America? Love it. What do you like about it? I feel a bit freer than I'm in England. I don't sound spoiled, but, okay, I'm famous on the race truck. But I can step out, paint my toenails, and wear a miniskirt, the money cares. Are you doing that? No, I don't do that.

I'm just telling you, that's the difference, right? In England, you, on Europe, you get judged what you wear or what you do. You always look yourself behind. That's the difference than I find a bit more relaxing. You have a very competitive dad. He was a champion jockey many times himself. Gave you a hard time when you were young. Still is. It still gives you a hard time.

He still is. He still tells me what I should have done, you know, which gap I should have took. Really? Obviously, my dad was a jockey professional. I'm very successful. Very successful. So I can't pull a wool over his eyes because, you know, exactly when I did write along. You were quite, from what I've read, you were quite a sort of shy, retiring young kid, right?

You weren't this charismatic, thunderball. And your first race, your dad gave you a pony, you had a first race, you came last and he fell off after the finishing line. That's right. When that happened, did you ever imagine in your wildest thoughts that you might end up as one of the great jockeys in history? No, absolutely no. I was a quiet, nice, non-ambitious person. Then my dad kicked me out of home. It didn't kick me out.

He sent me to England. But it was like being kicked out because I couldn't speak English. I went to a different country. I was getting bullied. The weather, the food, everything else was different. And but dad manned me up. and also I didn't want to embarrass my dad so it made me work extra hard

and then the writing started I realized that maybe I'm quite good and then it snulled out of my control I started winning and then from a little ball it became a big ball and then I became what I am now but I never started with the ambition

then I was going to be great when you ride now I just go addicted to you. Is a little part of you still trying to prove a point to your dad Oh, yes. Oh, yeah. Yeah. My dad is, I don't think my dad has ever said, well done. Really? Yeah, no, no. Never? Never. I don't think he has. Even when you won the seven races, I asked it. He might just say it's a grunt.

Even when you went through the car, I went to ask her, guess why? Turned out to my mom, he said, oh, I think the teletext is broken because Frankie's won over seven. He couldn't believe it. He didn't believe it. But did he congratulate him? No, he didn't, no, no. Are you serious? Of course, I'm serious. That's dad. That's hilarious. Yeah, he's like, yeah, doesn't.

If he says nothing, he says nothing, he means. means well done. Are you like that with your kids? Completely the opposite. Spoil, I give him everything. Yeah, complete the opposite to my dad. But despite the way he is, the old generation.

Do you think that that work ethic, that will to win, the competitive spirit, all of that, do you think in the end, you've got a lot of your success because of the way your dad won? Yeah, absolutely. That's why I'm,

I've stopped now asking him because I always end up arguing with him. I says, Dad, you push me and you brainwashed me to become a champion. You know, what about, especially my sport, if I free through my career, I would have broke my knee and stopped riding. I would have felt inside.

Would I have felt a loser? You know, and he turns out, he says, well, I can't answer. Look, you're a champion. Yeah, but, you know, he never gave a thought about something beyond your control that could happen. But isn't that a champion mentality? Yeah, but it's probably it is.

But, you know, I got some way, got to thank him to make me think like that. But it's something that I can't do to my children. Maybe because I'm a new generation. Maybe because I'm soft. I just can't do it. What was your mother? What has she been like with you?

Sorry? Has your mother been doing? I'm a mom. She's like mothers, you know, loves me. My dad's super tough. What was your mother's proudest moment, do you think? Maybe when you got the MBE from the Queen? Listen, my mom, she's proud.

You know, everything that I do. You know, she's the typical mama. She just wants to cuddle me and feed me. You know, my dad, yeah, I thought, look, my dad is proud too. You know, obviously doesn't show it. But, you know, like what you said at that point, if he wasn't for him pushing me, I would never be here because I didn't have it in me.

You pointed out to him that you've now continued for two years longer than him. No. I don't want to rub it in. Now, the dad is 82. Luckily, he's still with me. His brain is good. Obviously, it's a bit frail, but I guess I'm keeping him alive by him watching him be still ride. So it's good.

It's good. A lovely story, Frankie, about you, is the seventh ride you had when you went through the car. you ended up keeping that horse as a pet. So basically, for Jamakras also under 7, he ended up going jump racing. And I think he had pelvis injury. So it was going to end up, God knows. So I rang the trainer and I said,

could I please buy off him? And I took him home and became a pet for 20 years. He lived in the field. And he was the horse who made me famous. He was the horse who won the seventh race. And, you know, I gave him a good life until the very end. And he, you know, he passed away one day in the field. He didn't suffer.

It just, you know, he lived a ripe old age until it was about 25. That's a lovely story. Well, I owe it to him, you made me famous. Finally, if I could have the power to let you relive any race in your entire career on any horse, again, right now, you can do it right out on that track. Which one would you choose? Very hard. to say...

You only have one? I would say because it's fresh in my mind, this year's champion steaks, my ever last ride in England on my retirement day, the day that the Queen and Veil my statue, I win the champion stakes, I couldn't root it. I don't think no even Hollywood could have run the finale. So I would say that, Pierce. How would you like to be remembered? You could write your own tombstone.

I realize Frankie Dutori, he... I've had fun along the way, and yeah, I was, you know, I've did my job with a smile in my face. And we're both Arsenal fans. Absolutely. We're going through a very tough period right now. I know, I know. I can't fix that.

We haven't won the Premier League since 2004. I know. You're a miracle worker. Do you see any prospect we can do it this year? Yeah, we still got three weeks. If we buy a nice centre forward, I think we can. full weekend. Yes.

We've got to have a winner, a striker. Come on. A killer. Come on. Like you. Three weeks left. Come on. You can plenty of time to buy one.

Thank you, Piers. Thank you, Piers. All the best.