Piers Morgan Uncensored - Piers Morgan Uncensored: Manchester Football Clubs Crests, Royal Coronation No Shows, Michael O'Leary on Brexit

Episode Date: April 20, 2023

On tonight's episode of Piers Morgan Uncensored, Piers looks into the Guardian article on the two Manchester football clubs getting rid of the ships on their crests as it is claimed to represent slavery. Piers debates whether under King Charles the Royal events has as much meaning and sparkle to them. Also Piers assesses the words of Ryanair chief, Michael O'Leary, that Britain will eventually rejoin the EU. Watch Piers Morgan Uncensored at 8 pm on TalkTV on Sky 522, Virgin Media 606, Freeview 237 and Freesat 217. Listen on DAB+ and the app.  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I'm Pierce Morgan, uncensored tonight. Campaigners from the Guardian, of course, where else? Demand that Manchester's two famous football clubs ditch the ships from their crest, because get this, they might represent slavery as the purge of woke history, of history, I'm sorry, reached peak woke insanity. And not many street parties,

coronation snumps from top pop stars and a no show from President Biden. Is the crown losing its sparkle under King Charles, or will our patriots? further returning time. We'll debate that. Thus Ryanair Chief Michael O'Leary says delusional Brexiteers will die off soon and that Britain will sensation rejoin the EU. Is he right? From the news building in London, this is Pearce Morgan uncensored.

Well, good evening from London. Welcome to Pierce Morgan uncensored, and it really is uncensored. Anyone who watched last night's show could be under no illusion about just how uncensored we are. Joseph Stalin's Mercerous Soviet Union wrote the play on airbrushing history. After every treacherous purge, statues of traitors were torn down, roads were renamed, books were rewritten. Heroes turned villains were even scrubbed from photographs. Until one day, it was bronzes of a tiny dictator himself being toppled and tossed into lakes. Over here in the Enlightened West, we tended to do things rather differently. We learned from

the horrors of the past and used them to build a better future, but not anymore. A multi-year movement to rename schools, hospitals, parks, pub, streets, even entire society. over their historic links to slavery has reached, in my opinion, and now hysterical conclusion. Cultural vandals want, and of course they're at the Guardian newspaper, where else would they possibly be, these woke waste rules? They want the crests on the badges for Manchester City and Manchester United, two of the biggest clubs in Britain and the world,

to be removed because, of course, their ships, and therefore they must represent racism and slavery. Seriously? And in the irony of ironies, the seeds of this unhinged campaign, as I said, started by the Guardian, this is the newspaper which recently had to apologise because it turned out their own founders were linked to transatlantic slavery. So this is a kind of guilt-shaming from the guilty party. It's like a murderer telling us not to murder people.

There's nothing more sanctimonious than the Guardian in full sale, for want of a better analogy. But should we really be taking lectures from a newspaper which has so disgraced itself with its own horrific links to slavery? He thinks not. But in a self-flagellating 3,000 word lament, the paper says, The ship has nothing to do with football and everything to do with the business from which Manchester made its money. The product of slavery became so subtly embedded in our culture that we celebrated it in our club badges without even realising it. Now, of course, these Crests absolutely do not celebrate slavery. The ship represents the Manchester shipping canal, free trade, the Industrial Revolution.

The two clubs were found in many decades after slavery was outlawed by the British Empire, I might add. But the demented quest to stoke grievance and signal virtue stops at nothing. We must continue always to feel ashamed about everything that's ever happened and be responsible and pay for it forever. And the ascensory campaign to conflate past and present is suddenly everywhere, isn't it? Lawmakers in San Francisco have held. serious discussions about paying every black adult in San Francisco $5 million in reparations for historic racism. And the former BBC journalist Laura Trevelyan recently donated £100,000 to Grenada where her

ancestors once owned slaves. And she's quit the BBC to campaign for more people, including the British royal family, to do the same. Just like the ridiculous crusade against historic symbols, this movement blames the evils of the past on the people of today, none of whom had anything to do. do with it, and most of whom I imagine probably condemn it as much as anybody else. We can learn a lot from the palings of the past, but first we must stop destroying it and stop apologising for it. Well, joining me now is the author and playwright Bonnie Greer,

talk to the contributor and lawyer, Paula Rohn, Adrian, and the podcast host of Across the Pond, Hotech, Jesus. Well, welcome to all of you. All right, Paula, let's start with you, because I know what you're about to say is going to make me infuriated and it's going to be utterly insufferable. Excellent. These are two crests that carry images of sailboats. It's got nothing to do with slavery or racism. If that's your opinion, then you're entitled to have it. It's a fact.

Well, you don't know that, Piers. And the historians are being asked to look into that. And that's what should properly happen, shouldn't it? Because when you tell us about history and how important history it is, what we want to do is to ensure that we have got this right and we are going to grow from this experience. Yeah, I'm not growing from it. We're not going to deny it, are we?

I am growing, from Mr. Spears, I'm growing very annoyed. And I'll tell you why. Why are we annoyed? Let me tell you why. Let me tell you why. Let me tell you why. Let me tell you why. I'm not weary about that.

I thought slavery. I thought slavery. I thought world war one or World War II. Like everybody I know, I thought slavery was disgusting. And I'm very, very glad that everyone came around to their senses. It was disgusting. And that Britain actually led the way and ending the damn thing. Of course I do.

Slavery was disgusting. However, it turns out the history. say Manchester didn't adopt ships as an emblem until 1842. Apparently 30... 35 years after the abolition of slavery. So they would have had nothing to do with it. And how do we know that? We don't know that.

So what you are doing is you are taking one understanding of a situation. So you're believing the historians to suit your narrative. It's not what I believe, Piers. Let's be clear about this. We're having a debate. And that's what is important about... It's not... It's to be able to have a debate about something that happened in history.

We shouldn't be looking... It's humanity. Little pictures of ships on a footballer's crest bad. Who cares? It's got nothing to do with it. Well, clearly, I'm sure, the players at Manchester City and Manchester United,

those who advocate, you know, show racism in the red card, they will care about it. The Guardian, which has just been caught with its racism trousers down, because it turned out they were founded by a bunch of slave owners, right? So they're the last people on earth

to be lecturing about this. Is that right? Aren't they the right people? No, they're not. They're not. Because I found their hand-wringing over that utterly ridiculous. I'll tell you why. Well, they've apologised.

Every single family in Britain, if you go back far enough, you'll have people in their past hundreds of years ago who employed slaves, almost certainly. And therefore? And therefore, we know that was wrong then. Why should everybody today who had nothing to do with it? This was all terrible. What is the entire time apologising for it? It's about.

education. First of all, just education. And the second thing it's about, and you know this, we always rewrite history. We wrote we rewrote World War II because we found out about Bletchley. We didn't, a person who grew up

in the 50s would have a different World War II than a kid now because we found out about Bletchley. So we are getting more intelligent. And that's one thing that's happening. And I mean, you can't be sick. Hang on, hang on. And the other thing the United Kingdom

was actually on the side of the Confederacy during the Civil War and in fact was going to send a ship to the Confederacy to fight for it when it was stopped and warned by Lincoln and paid an indemnity to the United States. Who is going to pay me and my family reparations for what the Vikings did to us?

Well, I think you should seek it out. Who's going to? Explo it. Explore it. So literally, so we go back and go back. No, but every invasion, every bad thing. And this is what I'm saying to me. Let's try and have a conversation. No, it's not.

The ideology of denial, please. I'm not denying anything happens. So then let's deal with it. No, what I'm saying is once you start this woke rampage, there is no end, a bit like the statues of historical figures. They're all, guess what? Hang on, let me finish. Ladies, give me a moment.

All historical figures are flawed. You can find flaws in Mandela, in Gandhi and Churchill. It's why they had to be boarded up. statues of Parliament Square so the mob didn't attack them. But if we take this route, everything all the time, we have to be apologizing, paying for. Why? How does that move us on? What's wrong with an apology?

Nothing is wrong with that. If you... I'm very sorry that hundreds of years ago, people play back in. It's not anything to do with hundreds of years. We acknowledge it. We always do that. That is what history does. Why should footballers have to remove crests that contain images of ships, which, according to many historians,

were adopted as an emblem 35 years after slavery was abolished. Well, it was abolished, but it wasn't over. Okay, and that's the point. Are all ships racist? No, we don't know that, but we need to investigate it. Are all ships racist? We need to investigate it.

Why not? All ships could be racist. Why are you going to make a generalization about it? You think, do you know. That's a ridiculous point, and you are. All right, I think he knows that. All right. You are.

And I think we should. And I think the Irish should talk to the Norwegians. No, I think, honestly. I think the Irish should. And also the Italians and the Romans. Wow. Why not? Why not?

Why not? Why not? Why not? I need referations for what Rome did to us. I think the Irish should talk to the Iceland. Oh, there's preposterous, funny. No, it's not preposterous. It's a good dialogue.

You know what it is? Here's what it is. It's exhausting. Well, that's different. Honestly, this woke mentality is so exhausting. I feel myself literally getting tired as I listen to. You should be tired. No, you shouldn't.

You shouldn't. I'm sure being a blackfield male can be wonderful. I can have this challenge. We don't need to have this kind of argument. Trust me. Walking around being me ain't no better roses either. If you're talking about being exhausted, it's the exhaustion of the pursuit of knowledge.

Let me bring in, our very patient, third guess, I'm across the phone. Hotep, Jesus. O-Tep, you've been listening to this. I'm under attack here. Nah, I know. All right. Hotel, my general point is this.

I think slavery was horrific. I think if you basically chart back from almost any fan. family in Britain and America, you'll find some evidence somewhere that someone in the family probably was employed in using slavery when it was going on. But I just don't understand the point of this constant series now of recriminations, reparations, apologies, guilt trips and so on. I don't know what point it serves. I worked at a tech company once, and we know how rife they are with leftism. And in casual conversation in the office, I said, you know,

I want to be a national master in chess one day. And as white girl said to me, she said, don't you feel offended that they used the term master in the title? And I just looked at it like, you know, that thought never crossed my mind. The same thing if I were to go to the harbor and I would see a ship. I would not think of slavery. Right.

There's a huge fascination with slavery amongst black people where our educational system, our upbringing, has tied us to this travesty in human history and made us want to identify with it instead of identifying with richer parts of our history. Now, here's the issue that this comes down to. Women are going to see the world, frankly, different from men. Women are very emotional. So, of course, they're going to be worried about, you know, what's on the badge and all this stuff. When we look at the U.K., right?

the UK has about 4 million starving children right now. And that doubled since the past two years. My brother, hotel. Do you think that children that are hungry care about some badges? They can't eat football badges.

You know, what leftism does is they try to sidestep the real dilemmas and worry about all of these frills on the outside on the exterior. You know what hotel? Apart from saying that you've made two real dilemmas, really good friends here with your women get too emotional. One from the south side of Chicago.

We're impressed, brother. And I'll let you three deal with that after the show. Really impressed. I've got two things to say to what you just said. One is there was a genuine debate in Australia several years ago because an academic went on the airways and claimed that chess, which you just talked about, was racist because the white pieces went first, right? And I remember thinking at the time, the only time anyone in the world would think that

that was the case was if some academic decided to pop his head up and go, it's racist. Nobody actually believes chess is racist for that reason. And secondly, on your second point about current things, I read today that there are between seven and eight million slaves in India alone at the moment. Now, if the Guardian newspaper wants to launch a campaign against slavery in India, I'm all in. I'm all in for any current slavery going on, anywhere. in the world, I will join that campaign.

But going back several hundred years to a spurious argument, which turns out may not even be historically correct, about badges on football players where they show ships, therefore all ships are racist and therefore they must be removed. To me, it's preposterous. Well, they do the same thing here in America.

They wanted to remove Aunt Jemima from product packaging. They want to tear down statues. They're tearing down. Brownie Lee, I believe his name was, famous general. His own family wants that to happen, brother. A whole bunch of people are involved in what, Jay-Z has a quote, it goes, moral victories are for minor league coaches. When you really want to get into the nitty-gritty of things,

you look at more important issues than just badges on the football uniform. I just don't get it. Do you know something? You just used to phrase nitty-gritty. That itself has been banned now. No. It has not. No.

No, I have seen people say that is a racist term. And historians have told them that they're wrong. Right. So you accept that these historians who pop their head up saying of stuff can be completely wrong. First of all, I want to get your collective reaction to the suggestion that this is really a female thing. You women are a little over-emotional about badges. I've never heard a man say that for a long time. Right. So that's an hour.

I think that's. I mean, that's a small time. What is your response to, Hoteers? And I would have liked to ask him what he thought about the American football clubs who have changed their names because they referenced various members of society who didn't think that it was appropriate that they should be called those names. We have rugby clubs who have changed their names because they didn't think that it was an appropriate. But we're not talking about potentially inappropriate or inflammatory names which have evolved over years. We're talking about images of boats. It also went with their emblem.

Well, I know what they are, but it's what they represent. Yeah, Hoteau, come in. Yeah, please, Hoteau. Yeah, because she wanted to know my opinion on, I believe it's the Washington community. No, no, no, we have names, brother. I'm sorry. We have names, say that again? Who's the sister that addressed me about the football?

Oh, my name is Paula. Now we're sisters. That's so nice. Thank you. Proceed. Sister Portland? Proceed. It's Bonnie and Paula.

From the south side of Chicago. up. La yah, love ya. Grow energy. And I'm on your side. And I'm on your side. But when I see a football team changes names to commanders, you know, I'm like, what is that? Are you insulted?

Do you feel insulted? Do you feel insulted? Well, Commander is surely, surely you're shaking up. Surely here's the point. No, no. Hotep, isn't the word commander itself, it doesn't that suggest, you know, white supremacy? Because most commanders around that time were white. And your name,

And you're named after- You change it to something that also is racist. There is no word you could use. And you're named after an Egyptian pharaoh. So, you know, give us, give us, are you offended by all of this or what? I'm not offended. Why would, that's the whole thing. People are offended by the name of the team.

I'm not offended. You're offended by people. Listen, you're offended by people who want to actually pursue an injustice from the past. It's not a strange thing. It is not unusual. It is not unusual. No, I'm not. No, no.

No, no, you can't conflate those two things. Oh, I'm doing it. I am for that. I am for that. Yes, sir. No, no, what she said is just inaccurate. She tried to conflate two things. You try to say, I didn't care about the travesties and conflate that with something about the football team is going to change that.

No, I agree with you. There are real issues that need to be dealt with. Changing the football team is basically not tackling the problem. Exactly right. It's a way to waste time. It's a way to waste a budget. If we admit to, and this is in cycle analysis, that there is such a thing as generational trauma, okay, it does exist, it does exist in families, and it can't exist in a people. Now, I'm not going to go all the way and say, do this, tear statues down, because I don't think statues taking a statue down solves anything.

You're going to go after the badges on football? No, I'm not going to go after badges. But the debate is okay. There is no debate. There is a debate. Listen, listen. Hang on. Hang on.

Hold, everyone, hold the horses. If that isn't a racist term, I don't know, maybe horses get offended. Well, if you can say it might be. Here's my point, Paula. Everybody is offended by everything. And so once you assume that we have to start feeling guilty for our past, there is no end to it. I think the Irish should go out for the Iceland.

That's a very emotional term to use in a debate. I think they should do. Why not? It's a very emotional term to use in a debate. What I would love to do is have a campaign to close down the gun. I think that would be hugely popular. I think because of their outlandish links to the slave trade, the Guardian should fall on their own virtue-sittling swords

and close themselves down as a matter. If they should cancel themselves. So if you're watching Guardian journalists, I know you probably are, I'm your guilty pleasure. If you're watching, cancel yourselves tonight. And they'll do what you say. It's the right thing to do. You are tarnished by your slavery background,

and you must end the Guardian newspaper as a matter of urgency. the national interest and then you can all run off and feel guilty for the rest of your lives about the shame. You have wrong. And you'll do what you say. Everybody. And when you're writing out your check peers, I'll remind you how to spell my name. I know how to spell your name for me. I know how to spend your name. He writes

a chat to you. But I'm first of all ready for my check from the Romans and the Vikings. Which I will be aggressively pursuing. Get it going. Love it to see you both. A spirited debate as always. And Hotech, thank you very much indeed. Over than America. Thank you. Probably quite a good thing for you. You are several thousand miles away.

No, Hoh, Trap, you're good. They're beginning to steam over. I think you got them with the emotion line. Thank you both, all three of you, very much indeed. Well, unscensored next. Protests, very few street parties by comparison to previous royal events and celebrities snubbing the coronation. Even President Biden staying away.

It's supposed to Elizabethan Crown losing its sparkle. We'll debate that next. We're just over two weeks until the coronation of King Charles. There is the country and the world in the grip of royal fever. Well, not quite. When it comes to street parties, 16,000 were organised for the Queen's Platinum Jubilee, but there's only been 361 applications for the coronation.

This is reflected in a new poll, with 35% of Brits saying they don't care very much about it. 29% saying they don't care at all. Nearly 1,400 people expect to take part in Not My King protests. World leaders, like President Biden, and top pop stars, have also been snubbing the coronation. Here's the White House's press secretary, diplomatically, trying to explain why.

The president had about a 25-minute, 30-minute call with King Charles III, and during which he congratulated the king. And they have a very friendly conversation. They have a good relationship with the king. He talked about how he enjoyed meeting, visiting the queen, I should say, back in 2021. The king offered for him to come and do a state visit, which the president accepted. And so they will see each other again. very soon and I'll just leave it there. Have you ever heard a lamer or more tortured excuse

for why the President of the United States isn't coming? So has the Crown lost its shine? Joining me now is author and historian Tessa Dunlop and King Charles' former butler Grant Harrell. So welcome to both of you. All right, Tessa, off you go. Has it lost its luster, the crown? I think we've maybe got royal ceremonial fatigue.

the queen. God bless her, lived a very long time. So we had a golden Jubilee. We had a diamond jubilee. We had a platinum jubilee. We had a thumpur of a funeral. And now the airs come out of the machine. And, you know, Piers, I missed you when you're in America, but I'm going to give some of the blame to people like you and people in the press peddling this kind of divisive narrative, making the scars in the royal family deeper than they really did. Oh, rather than the people doing TV interviews and bestselling books, trashing the royal family who happened to be members of the royal family. They're not to blame. Of course. It's us reporting on the trashing that's the problem. That's a bit like Prince Harry saying, I never accused the royals of being racist, even though we all heard what him and Oprah, him and Meghan Markle told Oprah Winfrey. No, it was the beastly media who for two years falsely reported it as racism until we've now corrected them. It's so good that you haven't lost your passasas on the other side of the Atlantic.

It's such being. Tessa, it's such horse manure. It's not, Grant. What do you feel about our cover in? God, you work with Prince Charles, now King Charles. Yeah. I'm excited by the coronation. And I think the public probably will come around quite quickly,

as they tend to do for these things. I think there'll be a lot of fervour building up to the coronation itself in that week. And I think we'll be surprised by this scale, actually, celebrations for this. It's the first coronation in my lifetime in most people's lifetime. With first coronation in 70 years. And I've always said that with the Queen, obviously, we all, most people loved her, we respected her. As you mentioned, she had many jubilees and celebrations.

This is a fuss for the king. You know, it's beginning for him with his new reign. And as you've said, it takes time. But I think, you know, I know there's same popularity polls and everything. But from the people I speak to, people I know, a lot of people like him, admire him, respect him. But you're in the royal bubble. So is peers. You're in this media bubble.

We are in a bit of a cushion bubble where we hear all about the corners, drip fed into our inboxes. Ooh, this is happening. Oh, that chair's being polished. Oh, she's wearing that crown. Actually, there is... But it is for you. I mean, partly because it butters your bread and why not?

But beyond the sort of central London chatterboxes, who's this really speaking to? You know, in Europe, can you tell me when the last coronation was in Europe? I don't care. Well, I care. 1922 peers. What is Britain doing still wandering around with baubles? In a cost of living crisis,

that the apotheque speaks volumes. The monarchy remains something that the vast majority of this country still respect. And you can have a moniker. And like and have. And I think the trouble is, you see, you being a key supporter

of the Duke and Duchess of whining, the damage that they've done gone, I think is actually quite calculable now. Where you can see a lot of the reaction, especially in America I've just been, a lot of them saying, yeah, the trouble the roars is, they're racist, aren't they? And they're callous and they're horrible.

Because Harry says so. I mean, it's really been quite marked and damaging. It's certainly been upset. I mean, I felt sorry for the Queen because obviously the entire life, this is what was all going on. While Philip was dying, while she was dying. There's these two yapping away, pouring more and more manure over them. Could you imagine if it was a former staff member doing it?

You know, it would be shut down. It just wouldn't happen. But can we be honest, Graham? I bet you and Pear's, certainly Pear, if I know you even one iota, was just an incy-weensy bit disappointed that Megan isn't going to be at that corner. I think... I tell you why I'm disappointed.

I'm very disappointed. Harry's going to be there. I'm very disappointed that Charles, although I completely understand it as a father, why he's felt the need to do this. He doesn't want to be seen to be the bad guy and the whole thing. But what the hell is Prince Harry doing?

Having trashed the family in that horrible book he wrote, the terrible series they've done, the interviews they've done, trashing, trashing, trashing, trashing, damaging the institution of the monarchy, damaging the royal family, and then they have the brass neck. He turns up at the coronation.

We know that... I think it's going to be awkward. We know why he's doing it. He's doing it because I suspect Mega Markle has gone, you better get over there and get on that balcony somehow because our entire commercial world

depends on you still being a dominant member of the royal family. Let's take a reality check on the idea of money in the commercial world when today we've just seen it released after comprehensive investigation by the Guardian. The king is the richest royal ever seen by world kind. Is it 1.8 billion pounds?

The sovereign doesn't have to pay inheritance tax. You can feel a bit of sympathy for Harry. He's been totally fond about the equation. It all goes, Queen, Charles, William. That's where our national wealth goes. They should be paying for the coronation. He's donating some money. I'm sure he's donating some of the wealth or something.

And I know, you could argue a bit of the amount of money they've got. But at the end of the day, I think they're good value as well. I think what he does, the work to do. They're paying any inheritance tax. They're living in a different fantasy land. They're members of an institution which actually pays for itself. The tourism money that comes in a loan pays for the costs of us upkeeping the royal family. I get that. But if you got to hand your mansion to your children, they could pay for themselves. They play by a different set of rules.

Yes, they do. Which is why we judge them with a different set of rules. And in return, they live in this endless goldfish bowl that don't have a lot of the freedoms that we enjoy. Have witness. They do an unbelievably large number of duties a year. which, by the way, your two heroes over in California, they do zero. They do zero.

All they do is take their royal titles and sign massive contracts with companies who only want them for one thing to trash the family again, which is what they keep doing. And that's my argument against them. But maybe the bigger argument is if the coronation is a bit paired down,

if it doesn't deliver the Rasmataz that some people expect of it, maybe that's a reality check. We go forward, but with a paired down, small of our family, one that we don't fluff up all the time. Once we've gone through, I mean, I voted against it so I can say this. Once we've gone through the ridiculous far as Brexit,

which is just clearly not working and is actually damaging the country, and we're now how many years after it? I mean seven, eight years after the vote, right? So I'd have seen no evidence of this thing working. So we've become ever more insular. And people look at us and they see Boris Johnson, ridiculous, Liz Truss, ludicrous.

We've become a laughing stop. The one thing that we do better than any other country in the world is pomp, pageantry, military ceremony and we're putting the whole shebang on in two weeks' time and it's a moment for the light of the world to shine on our country and we can feel proud about it. And it picks people...

Rather than feeling ashamed and embarrassed because Boris has done something stupidly again or Liz Trusses tanked global markets or whatever it may be. But Piers, if we want to feel proud again, then let's take away the bile, let's draw away the soap opera and let's just enjoy it. But no, because we stoke it.

It's constant. We're not stoking it. They're doing it. Let's join together. I'm happy. By the way. The media can't ignore two members of the royal family publicly trashing the royal family. It's obviously a huge news story. They've got to stop it. Can I also say with a coronation, any big celebration

with the royal family, it brings people together. That's one thing I've noticed. Look at the mouth. Look at the mouth. And also, each year they've been in over 500 million from the tourist industry. Can you imagine what they're going to bring in with the coronation weekend? The amount of people are going to be in London. Huge, absolutely huge.

The great news is, Harry, goes home after the show on the Saturday. That is good news, yeah. I've kept my Sunday free for lunch with you, Pius. No, the good news is he is going straight home. And that is his home. His home now is in Montecito in California, a massive mansion he got because he sold his family out. There's a word for that, and it's called Trader.

Anyway, lovely to see you again, Tessa. Nice of you to make your comeback on our show. Good to see you, too. Good to see you on. All the best. Oncensored next, how does comedy survive in an age where just about everything is offensive? Well, comedian and Fox News star Cat Timp. This next, she's written a great book about this.

Come back to Sue, Pierce, and the words of Ricky Jervais, there'll always be somebody offended by a joke. He's not wrong in a world where little ships on football shirts are deemed offensive in an almost endless list of people, products, books, brands, movies, ideas, and dead historical figures have all been cancelled.

How is it possible to still be funny? Well, my next guest has some ideas. I'm joined by the comedian, a Foxman, Scott, Captain, who has a new book out called You Can't Joke About That. Cat, good evening to you. Good evening. I love it. I love this book, I love everything about this book,

because my God, we need this book. What has happened to a world where in America and Britain, two of the greatest democracies in history, people are now too scared to tell a joke in case they literally get canceled. Yeah, and there is such this misconception, right, that there's free speech on the one side and then there's sensitivity on the other side.

That's really wrong because, I mean, I write in my book about a lot of traumatic things that I've been through. And every single one of those things was made worse by the pressure that I could feel other people felt to speak to me so carefully and not say the wrong thing. Because then in addition to dealing with something traumatic, like the death of my mother or a medical situation

that was very serious, I then also had to feel isolated from other people who were terrified around me. And what actually did help me was making jokes about those things that you're really not supposed not supposed to joke about. Yes. Because laughing at something is so healing because it takes away its power. Yes, and it used to be what they called, you know, dark humor, black humor about things,

which is where you would laugh sort of, you know, in serious situations. It used to be celebrated as a kind of a well-known comfort blanket to get through the difficulty in life. But now it's become a case where even in your difficult moment, someone says the wrong thing. They have to be canceled. Therefore, the whole thing gets even worse. Absolutely. And I just don't know how these are standards are put into place to be sensitive to people going through tough things. Because research shows that, you know, everybody knows that you can't make fun of, for example, a terminal illness or make jokes about a terminal illness, except for the people who are suffering from terminal illnesses, who rate humor as higher than solemnity and what helps them to get through that and feel better.

in some cases, even higher than actual physical pain relief. I know when I was really struggling, I read about this in my book in Los Angeles. I was alone. I was really, really broke. Things were going really, really bad for me. And I started doing stand-up comedy because I really just felt so powerful over these things that are making me feel powerless. And also being on stage and having people laugh, that became my only means of connection,

really, during the loneliest time of my life. And it's really, really sad to think that we might be losing that. Well, you talk with unbelievable honesty. And honestly, it's a fantastic book for that because it gives it such a raw, real quality about why comedy became your savior in a way. Because you went through so much and you talk about grief and relationship breakups

and quite serious illness, all these things. But the common thread with all of it was that somehow you found a way to laugh. And, you know, when I was young again in my family, it was always, you know, laughter's the best medicine. You know, along with a large scotch, have a laugh would be the mantra. But now it's not like that. Too many people are like, well, you can't.

As you say, when you're in a very awkward, difficult, sad or whatever, you know, horrible situation, actually it's the best way to lighten the load. But if you lose that, the load never gets lightened. Yes. And also, with every tough thing that you go through, the one I suppose bright spot in that is by going through it, you're automatically building a connection with everyone else who's been through that thing too. But what's the use if we can't talk about it? We can never make those connections if we're too afraid to talk about it and say how we really feel or even make jokes about it that other people might find healing and might make those people feel less alone. Right.

I mean, my mom, as she was dying, knew she was dying, she was making jokes about it. And I remember looking at her and I remember learning really even more than I already knew. Okay, if she can joke about her actual, there's nothing more serious than dying. And if she can joke about that, we all can joke about anything. Well, my favorite joke when I grew up was what was written on the hypochondriacs tombstone told you I was ill. Told you I was ill. That was my favorite joke. I love that joke because it seemed to me just very funny. To me, that's so normal because other than being born, the only thing we really have in common is that we're all going to die. Yes.

And we just have really created the wrong rules, I think. I think a lot, and the reception of this book has been great. I think a lot of people, I've been overwhelmed with the stories that I've. heard from people who say that this resonated with them in one way or another. Because I think a lot more people really do feel this way, but they're afraid to say so. And we've wound up creating the wrong rules in society where people are saying, oh, you can't say that, you can't joke about that. When really inside you know that you can. But that's really hurting all of us.

Because we all kind of agree and have more in common than we really would just, if we could just talk about it and joke about it, we'd all realize that. We all deep down do know it. Should there be any limits? I mean, Ricky Jervais's view is that once you start making exceptions for anybody, well, then you never stop. It's a bit like the cancelling of historical figures or statues or whatever it may be. Once you start that path, so with humor, should everything be on limit for humor?

Yes, I think that everything absolutely. And I think that actually the darker and more traumatic something is, the more important it is to be able to make jokes about that because what needs the healing power of comedy quite like the dark stuff, Right? And I mean, I also really feel like intention is the most important thing. Intention, was someone intending to make you laugh and entertain you, or were they trying to be hurtful on purpose? There's this idiotic school of thought out there now that if someone says something is offensive, they're automatically right, and it doesn't matter whether they intended to be offensive or not. How could that possibly be true? It's not true when we talk about murder or if someone killed someone on an accident versus planning a murder.

how can we not have that same standard for jokes? It doesn't make any sense. And I think that if someone was trying to make a joke, and although you might be hurt by it, you should really be measured in your reaction because not only are you maybe setting up a standard for yourself to get cancelled, you might make other people afraid to make jokes about other things that you might need at some point in your life.

And Kat, if I just told you had 60 seconds to live, and obviously we'd both find that hilarious given this conversation, but if you're 16, what joke would you tell? What would be your last joke on earth? I don't know what joke I would tell, but I would give the advice of if you are someone who has lost a parent or a loved one and people ask you about it

and the room gets all awkward and uncomfortable, like, oh, I'm so sorry. You just say, it's okay, you didn't kill her. And then everything, the mood rebalances, that's something I learned losing my mom at a relatively young age because I hate when that made it awkward and that made it a lot easier for me.

And I'm really proud of this book. I'm very critical of myself. I hate almost everything I've ever done. But I feel like if I got hit by a bus, which I hope I don't, I would be still, the life well lived, because I feel like this book is so important, and I'm very, very proud of it. It's a fantastic book,

because mainly because you're so honest about yourself and your life and why comedies be such a help to you, you know. Yeah, and it's hilarious, but you also make so many great points in there. And if you did get hit by a bus, rest of short, I will be the first to crack a joke. Thank you, and I would appreciate that. I absolutely would. And yes, I get brutally honest and graphic,

because I want to make it so clear that when I say you can joke about everything, I mean everything, no matter how embarrassing, gross, humiliating, or sad. Given you work with Greg Gutfeld most nights, you couldn't really be any different because that, of course, is exactly what he does. Right. I love when people say you're too mean to cat over some intro that he does for me that I actually wrote. I love that in the book that you write most of the one-line zingers about yourself. You've given him.

Yeah, I'm like, I guess I'm a good actress too, because, A lot of the stuff that people have gotten mad at him about, I'm like, okay, I'm okay with it to the point that I actually wrote it. So you don't need to get offended on my behalf. I think the problem's going to come when very quickly, probably tomorrow, he's going to have to start introducing you as a number one bestselling author. It's going to eat him alive. Kat, it's a brilliant book.

You can't joke about that. Why everything is funny, nothing is sacred, and we're all in this together. Thank you for writing this. We need this kind of book in society today. So good luck with it. And I hope you are number one. and I want to see Greg's face when you are. Thank you so much.

Well, unsurats the next, Deputy Prime Minister Dominic Raab is clinging to his job over bullying allegations. Should he be fired? Well, talk to someone who claims to have been one of the victims of his bullying next. Now, here's a shower too. Well, some breaking news. It's been reported that charges against the actor Alec Baldwin, all the criminal charges over the fatal shooting of Helena Hutchins on the set of the film Rust had just been dropped.

Extraordinary developments. It's come to hours else who's announced for production of the movie, is now resuming with her husband, the late Helena's husband, taking on the role of executive producer. So, that's breaking news tonight. I'm joined by Talk to Vee's International, Isabel Oshar, talk to me,

presenter, Richard Tice, and campaign leader of the true and fair party, Gina Miller. Well, welcome to all of you. Superstar Pack, if ever there was one. Gina, so I want to start with you because Dominic Raab, his future hangs in the balance.

This report into whether he's a big bully has gone to number 10. Rishu Sunaq has spent hours going through it. No decision. or announcement based on what he's been reading today, so we expect it tomorrow. You yourself had an experience with Rob, which makes you think he is a bully.

Well, there are two different things. I've had personal experience where he was a bully to me. In what way? So I was doing a morning today program about the case that I brought, my first case. And coming down from the show in the lift, he basically called me names. Like what?

Like, like, you. can't work out if you're just a silly bitch or if you are rich or if you've got or you're just naive. He called you a silly bitch? Or if I was naive. Dominic Rod called you a silly bitch? He was furious. Well, you came here to defend him.

Can you defend that? Hang on, hang on. But after that as well, when we next met at another occasion, when we were on we were going to another question time show or whatever. And, you know, he then, his behavior was inappropriate as well at that occasion. In more way?

And I've written, so I was on the show. I was going to be there with Nish Kumar, the comedian who was on. My brother was there. And Rab sort of went up to my brother, who looks nothing like Nish, and said to him, oh, we're on together. And totally ignored me and said, we're on the show together this evening. And my brother said, no, I'm not. You know, we don't look all the same.

And Rav sort of looked really embarrassed. And Nish Kumar came out. And he said, well, why didn't you say hello to Gina Miller? You're on the show. She's on the panel with us tonight. And he just looked at me and walked off. And it's just a bizarre way of behaving. I mean, that's sort of weird, inappropriate.

The first thing you said, if Dominic Raab, whose deputy prime minister, called you a silly... Well, he wasn't then, obviously. He wasn't... He is now. He is now. But what I was going to say is it's different. Is this behaviour that's going on?

This report is about him being a boss across not one, but three department government departments. Yeah, but if that's the way he spoke to a high-profile woman at the time, privately when he doesn't think people are watching... Well, the thing is, I think... I think it's because he saw me as being lesser than himself. Yeah, but that's what... Okay, let me bring in, Isabel, because I think you came here to be defensive of it.

But when you hear that as a woman, what do you think? It's not even as a woman. I'm just actually shocked. Yeah. So, I mean, I've known Dominic Robb since 2010, since he first came in as a backbench, newly elected, Tory MP. I have never found him anything other than, at the very least, civil. I think he's got a very, very strong work ethic. He is a workaholic.

I think he demands very high standards of himself and the people who work for him. And I strongly suspect that that results in him sometimes being quite curted. And what do you feel now you've heard this? And quite demanding. So I was absolutely going to defend him on that basis. If he said that, that is outrageous. But you can also go and how he wrote about me as well and talked about me in the media. Yeah, but that particular line.

I mean, bullshit. It's that phrase. Should anyone be deputy prime minister who calls women silly bitches? I mean, that is indefensible. that's obviously the first I've heard of it, truly shocking. And one would like to say, frankly, no. I mean, that's just an extraordinary way to carry on with anybody. And what it makes me think, I've always looked at Rawa

and just thought he always looked permanently angry and has one of those mean faces. That's not enough to judge him or convict him. But I've always said, none of it surprises me. I mean, he looks cheerful there. I mean, a creepy kind of Hannibal Lecter way. But what Jesus just told me, I can quite believe that. Because of my instinct about him is he is like that.

I can't believe anybody to behave like that. But he didn't get into it. He was angry. He was... Yeah, but it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter, Gene. What it shows me is... What it shows me is he's perfectly capable of doing that to you.

He's capable of any of these things. Why did you say anything about it at the time? I mean, that is quite a big story. No, no, no, because I was being battled. No, I was being attacked from just about everywhere for the case. The last thing I wanted to do was bring more attention onto myself. And at the time, I was so stunned when the doors opened. And it came out at the lift.

I actually couldn't believe. somebody had actually just spoken to me. This was at the BBC. Yeah, I was coming down in the Lyft after the Today program. What did you say to him? I didn't say anything because my car came, the runner came up and sort of said, your car's here, Mrs Miller, and I went off. Is it possible you misheard? And in the way,

no, no, no, in the way. And the reason I know this is because I brought this thing, a weird habit, I write things down. And so I actually have the diary from the time where I wrote it down. Have you ever talked about this before? Well, not quite like this. But also, no, I did do an article in the Independent

and they checked and they saw my entry. You didn't include that particular part of it. I said that he's not that particular phrasing. I got to say that that to me is a big development in this because it shows to me this is a guy who talks to women like you like that. That's pretty shocking. I mean, I want ministers to be demanding of civil servants to get performance so they're held to account and they deliver for taxpayers who pay their salaries.

But we do not want ministers behaving like that, frankly, with anybody. But what I'm saying is this is somebody who, which plays into what peers is saying is about this is somebody who, when it's juniors or maybe some people he doesn't see as being on the same levels as himself, has a sustained pattern of behaviour. It says to me it's just a nasty piece of work and a bully.

Which is bullying. It's bullying. And so therefore it makes me think that, let's see what the report says, but there's so many people have come up with similar stories. It's like eventually, you know, can he really be an innocent guy when we just said that? Well, I think Synax's got a real problem because the thing is, if he says no,

you know, Rab stays, there's a whole load of silver servants who are saying that they're going to walk and they could bring individual cases against Rab. So this is not over there. Well, look, I think we should obviously see how it all goes, but then maybe reconvene afterwards maybe next week because it's going to be a big story. We've actually run out at talking about this was such a enthralling development. We run out of time. What we have got time for is today a very exciting development on Piers Morgan Unsensored. In less than a year, it's our first anniversary next week, we have past 1 million subscribers to our YouTube channel

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