Piers Morgan Uncensored - Piers Morgan Uncensored: Martina Navratilova, Dave Ward & Shaun Ryder

Episode Date: June 27, 2022

On this episode of Piers Morgan Uncensored, Piers talks to Martina Navratilova about this war on women. Piers also discusses postal workers strikes with Dave Ward. Finally, Piers speaks to Shaun Ryder about legends potentially killing their legacies at Glastonbury. Watch Piers Morgan Uncensored at 8pm on TalkTV on Sky 526, Virgin Media 627, Freeview 237 and Freesat 217. Listen on DAB+ and app. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I'm Piers Morgan, Uncensor, coming up on tonight's program. Abortion rights, trans women in female sport, and the word woman, is now deemed controversial. I'll ask tennis superstar Martina Ivatova, what she makes of this war on women. Trains, airlines, barrister, is now postal workers vote on during the summer of disruption in the UK. Union boss Dave Ward joins me live. Music legend is Diana Ross and support McCartney lit up Glastonbury, but did they kill it or did they kill their legacies? Happy Monday's lead singer, Sean Ryder, will be here to weigh in on that. Good evening. Welcome to Pearce Morgan Unsensored.

If you're a woman right now, you must be feeling under attack, like your rights are constantly being attacked and degraded and diminished. In America, the US Supreme Court has shot down a 50-year statute giving federal, lawful ability for women in America to have an abortion. This went down extremely badly with stars at Glastonbury, including Billy Eilish, Olivia Rodrigo, Lily Allen and Kendrick Lamar. Today is a really, really dark day for women in the US. So many women and so many girls are going to die because of this.

And I wanted to dedicate this next song to the five members of the Supreme Court. Well, whatever your view of abortion, and my view is it should be a woman's right to choose what she does with her body. There's no doubt that what this ruling will do, by sending the law back to the states in America is that in many states, it's going to be incredibly difficult for particularly poor and vulnerable women, the most vulnerable members of society in many ways, to get the health treatment that they want.

People who stand up for women's rights at the moment get shot down. Take J.K. Rowling. This is a woman who's written some of the biggest selling books in history, which have made some of the biggest box office grossing movies in history. And yet the stars who've become hugely rich and famous because of those movies, based on those books, cannot now even mention her name. Recently, the 25th anniversary of the Philosopher's Stone has been a series of events

where Harry Potter stars have turned out. At the moment that J.K. Rowling, the author of the books that have made them rich and famous, the moment her name gets mentioned, look at what happens. Here's Tom Felton. J.K. obviously, has sort of more of a backseat now. Is it strange from her not being around at things like that? Your next question, please. Oh, okay. Madness, right?

I mean, how ungrateful, never mind anything else. And all because J.K. Rowling says that actually sex matters in the debate, particularly about trans sport, for example. And what better example of the unfairness around that issue than this weekend were a 29-year-old trans woman skater, Ricky Trez, who was born a biological man. beat a 13-year-old girl, Shiloh Katori, to win New York City's women's skateboarding contest. How can that be right?

How can that be fair? And yet some of the most famous, successful sportspeople in the world think is both right and fair. And in fact, they're enraged that anyone should raise even a quizzical eyebrow of this. Megan Rapino of the American women's soccer team, the world champions, said I'm 100% supportive of trans inclusion. People do not know very much about it. We're missing almost everything. Tom Daly, who's the British Olympic gold medal winning champions.

And I was furious, he said, about the recent announcement that in certain sports, trans athletes will now be banned from competing against women. Like most queer people, he added, anyone that's told that they can't compete or can't do something they love just because of who they are, it's not on. Really, Tom?

I tell you what's not on. is you saying that you're furious by something that is so obviously unfair and wrong. And here's why, Tom Daly, you're a gay man. And great, I'm very happy for you that you can lead your life how you want to lead it. And I fully support your right to fairness and equality in every regard. But what if you decided that you wanted to transition to be a woman? And all you had to do to compete against women in elite sport was to just go through a year, of hormone reduction therapy,

and then you could dive against women born to female biological bodies. You would become immediately the greatest female diver in the history of diving. You would smash the records so irrevocably that no woman born to a female body would ever probably come close to beating them. How is that fair or right?

So it's fine for you to spout off and say how furious you are that trans athletes now will have to compete in a different way, but not against women. born to female bodies. It's fine for you to do that, but it's not right, is it? You're not right.

Well, joining me now is someone who's had no trouble at all explaining what a woman is, a question that has stumped politicians and celebrities now all over the world. Last week I had the president of the National Union of Students, who was incapable of even beginning to answer the question. Well, 59 times Grand Slam titles winning tennis superstar, nine times Wimbledon champion, Martina Irvattelover, joins me now. Now, Martina, great to see you. First of all, how are you?

Thank you. I'm good, thank you. I want to just play the clip I just mentioned. This is the female president of the National Union of Students in this country who did brilliantly to get this job. And it's a wonderful, I would say, wonderful accolade for a woman to get to this position.

I then asked her one simple question. What is a woman? What's I got to do with the price of friends, peers? I literally told you, I'm about to debate this movie. I'm not on that second, right? Bye, ask the next guess. What is a woman? What do you mean?

Ask the next guest. You don't know what woman is? A woman is someone who defines as a woman, period. Done. Anyone? Next guest, please. Okay, I'm a woman. Is that, yeah?

I said next guest, because that's not my second. If I say I'm a woman. I know you're trying to trap me and I'm not falling for it. Sorry. Do you agree I'm a woman? Now, Martina, it was sort of comical on one level, but also I found it really unsettling that here you've got a woman who's actually a real high achiever.

She's become president of the National Union of Students. She was very very big. bright and sparky in many ways. But her inability to even want to answer that simple question, to me, perfectly encapsulated the madness of where Mr. Bates gone. What did you

make of it? Well, adult human, female is the correct answer. And I find it peculiar that we are only seeing this from one side with trans women taking up space in women's spaces, but we do not hear the

same of men having to define what a man is. So wonder why that is. Of course, again, come from at this from a sporting viewpoint and what is fairness. So I really come from this whole issue

from position of fairness for women and girls competing in sports because that with sports biology matters. So again, up to you to define yourself how you want, but you need to be able to answer a question, the question what is a woman? Yes, I completely agree. And when you hear the likes of Megan Rapino and Tom Daly now coming out and expressing their fury that anyone should be concerned about trans athletes competing against women, again, what is your reaction to that?

What are you thinking about seriously? Because there are groups now that are for inclusion based on self-ID only. You don't even take any hormones. You don't need to do anything at all. Just self-IDI as a woman. And bingo, you can compete as a woman. and anywhere you want. So this is how far it's gone. And to Megan or Tom, I say, put yourself into our shoes. Megan has been there, but a great woodworking teacher of mine said to me, if you don't know a solution to a problem, exaggerate the solution. So imagine if we had a team of 11 trans women playing against 11 biological women. Who do you think would win? Now, these would be good athletes, right? They were good as men, as competing against males. And now they identify as women and they even go the hormone therapy for a year, it doesn't really do much. It certainly doesn't mitigate the advantage that you get automatically when you go through

male puberty, which starts at about 11, 12 years old. And you see boys just shoot up five, six inches in a year. And that advantage doesn't go away. So again, live your life to the fullest, but you really can't have it all. And sports biology matters. And it's just not fair to have to compete against biological males, no matter how long have they been doing the hormone therapy, if they've gone through that male puberty, you really cannot make it a fair fight at the end at all. I mean, I completely agree. What I think is also completely grotesquely unfair, is that somebody like you, who's been such a vocal supporter of LGBT rights over the years, and who formerly had yourself a transgender coach, Rene Richards, that you've been targeted by the trans-activists

and branded transphobic, which I just find, frankly, I find it sickening that you've been exposed to that kind of thing. It's disheartening, really, because I have been fighting for our community for decades. And I welcome René Richards with open arms. She's still a good friend of mine to this day. Now, I'm not saying that I'm not transphobic, because I have a trans friend. But René Riches actually agrees with everything that I say about the transgender athletes in sports, women, trans women in sports.

So it would be hard to call René trans women. But some people say, oh, well, she's just too old to know better. Really? She's lived as a woman for a trans woman for 40 some years now, almost 50 years. And you're going to explain this to René Richards. Good to know. Renée now says herself, she should not have been allowed to play when she played as a woman in the 70s. When she was in her 40s, she ranked top 30 in the world in her 40s when she had been playing

for a long time. So she knows she should not have been allowed to play then and is definitely saying the same things that I'm saying. Are you gratified, Martina, that it seems common sense is finally coming into this debate with swimming and rugby and other sporting authorities now actually saying, okay, enough is enough. And you see the British government now being pretty vocal about it as well. I think the tide has turned in that we are kind of seeing trying to find a solution that's equitable, that's fair, that's good for everyone. And common sense kind of is coming back into the fold rather than not.

you have to do it this way and you don't get a say in this. So women athletes are speaking out more women athletes are not invited for the conversation as to how we can include trans women. Certainly girls before puberty, trans girls should be able to play against girls. But again, once you get past puberty, it's a whole different situation. But I think the tide has turned in a positive way that we can now have a conversation and see if we can find a solution. You're done at Wimbledon.

and there's still this running debate, of course, about the Russian tennis players, some of whom obviously they're not there because the British government starts on sanctions has meant that Wimbledon's banned them. We've had this conversation before, but what has been the reaction down there at Wimbledon do you think about this decision?

Look, we've known about this for over a month, right? So the players have kind of accepted it, so this is the deal. Nobody gets points, so nobody gets ahead by playing other than getting a Wimbledon title or getting to the finals and making a lot of money. But I think the players are working just as hard,

trying just as hard to play. The field is weaker. On the women's side, I think we have over 10 players that have not been allowed to play. So it's depleted the field, both on the men's side, obviously. World's number one cannot play.

So I think it's a really sad situation. There are no winners here, and I hope that this is the last that we will have this situation. US Open already announced they will allow Russian players to play. And let's just hope that this horrible war in Ukraine, this attack on Ukraine,

as soon as possible. So, you know, there's no winners here at all. It's all a self-made issue. And it's just a tragedy all the way around. So I just hope that this is the last we'll talk about it. And we can get on with it. And hopefully Ukraine can get on with rebuilding their country. Yeah, I completely agree.

Emma Radikarno, our great hope here won today. She looked pretty good. It's been a fascinating journey for her, isn't it? Because she had a wobble at Wimbledon. She recovered and wins the U.S. Open out of nowhere, which is one of the most stunning sporting victories in the history of sport, never mind tennis. She's struggled again since then

to reclaim that kind of level of performance. She's gone through a lot of coaches, coach after coach after coach after coach. What do you make of what's happened with Emma Radicala? And what did you see on court today? Do you think she's got it in her to potentially win Wimbledon? There's a lot of questions. So no, I don't think Emma will win Wimbledon

this time around, but certainly has the potential to win it one day. I don't think she's fit enough. forehand looks a bit dodgy. She's not hitting through the ball. And she really could have lost the match today. It meant which one played a little bit better. But certainly the potential is there. So I think the first mistake was letting go of the coach that got her to that U.S. Open title. And maybe they should have stuck with that guy because he did a great job. Since then, I'm not sure there had been a lot of changes. And I think you can get too many, too much information.

And then you don't know which way to go because you're getting so many different viewpoints. So you need to kind of stick with somebody to see if it works first. if you mesh with them in the first place. So I hope she finds a solution. She's a great talent. And I think she might get into the second week, but I don't see her winning unless she finds the form that she had at the US Open, in which case, anything can happen.

I agree. I think the thing about Emeraldicarno, we just don't know which one's going to turn up. But when she's on it, my God, she's unbelievable. Martina, brilliant to talk to you. Thank you so much. Enjoy your time there. We'll speak to you again before the tournament's over. Look forward to it.

All right. Cool. Thank you. Well, trains, airlines, barristers and now postal workers will vote on joining the summer of strikes across the UK. Next, I'm going to be with union boss Dave Ward about those postal workers. He's here, live, and he's already been sticking it to me on Twitter, so this should be fun. What is Broken Britain facing a summer of discontent? The latest union to ballot for industrial action is a communication workers union. Tomorrow, 115,000 postal workers at Royal Mail will vote whether or not to strike over pay, with the result due in mid-July.

as Posties threatening to down their mailbacks. The CWU represents 45,000 workers at British Telecom. So the strike does go ahead. Well, good luck to the millions of BT customers trying to get the Wi-Fi to work. Bad numbers it is. Well, the ballot follows last week's rail strikes and a plan walkout by British Airways baggage handlers.

And joining me now is the General Secretary of the Communication Workers Union. Dave, thank you for coming in. First of all, appreciate that very much. I start most interviews with union workers by going straight to your Facebook profile page. after Mick Lynch and the Hood went viral. And when I went to yours today, Dave Ward,

after a little bit of prompting from you on Twitter, I discovered this. Have we got it? There we are. This is your, and that is your little joke at my expense where you said I was taking part in a... What did you call it? Unofficial walkout.

An unofficial Wildcat strike. An unofficial Wildcat strike, which is when I left Good Morning Britain. They're calling you a Wildcat Morgan now. Well, I actually quite like the title. rather like Mitt Lynch likes being called The Hood. All I would say about that was, yes, I did walk out in my little bit of industrial wildcat action,

but 10 minutes later, I came back to work. Without a penny pay rise, I went back to my workstation. Now, albeit, I had a little falling out with my employers later in my day and did indeed leave my job. But actually, my strike lasted 10 minutes, and I realised that my strike was going to cause huge disruption and distress to the British public. and so I saw the light and came back, Dave.

Well, I mean, what I'd say to that is that the objective of any dispute, when you ballot your members for industrial action, it's always because there's been events that have taken place, negotiations, and you then ballot them, and we have a right to do that under the law. And the objective is never to have a strike pit. You know, I mean, disputes are about settlements, but sometimes if you get the right man,

and you can't go any further with negotiations. And we'll give all of those companies that you're talking about the opportunity to have further negotiations before we serve any notice of strike action. That's if we obviously get the right results, which I'm confident that we will. You know, we want settlements. But here's my problem.

And my problem is not with your workers, right? Because I thought in the pandemic, the postal workers were magnificent. Magnificent. I speak from personal experience. The guys that were serving me and my neighbourhood, unbelievable. They were every day through the pandemic. They were working far harder than normal because there were so many more deliveries being made because people were at home in lockdown.

So I have great admiration for postal workers. So let's put that on the table, right? And I've nothing wrong, actually, with trades unions or you're fighting for your workers. Here's my problem. This country right now, like many countries in the world, every country in the world, is suffering huge economic strife.

this. We're on the precipice of being tipped into a recession. Possibly worse. And right now we have obviously the rail strike action, British Airways. Now you guys threatening it. London Underground, Ryanair, EasyJet, NHS, teachers, barristers, bus drivers, rail workers,

British Airways and so on. There's a whole raft now of threats or actual strikes of threats going on. And the consequence of this is that if we're not very careful, We are going to tip ourselves not just into a recession, but potentially another great depression. And my question for you as a union leader is, do you care about that?

Do you care? I mean, how do you put a premium on individual workers? If it was left to you, given inflation is raging at 11%. Would you like every worker in the country to get an 11% pay rise to cover inflation? Look, I think there's a lot of points you've raised there. And let me answer all of them, really. I mean, the first thing I would say is that our message is every worker counts. So, you know, we're not saying we're special,

although I agree with you, and I think postal workers will welcome what you said about the contribution they made during the pandemic, because there's no doubt about it. They were fantastic. No doubt. And often overlooked in very difficult circumstances. By the way, they're also dealt. Can I just say they were also dealing with at the same time as the problems with a pandemic.

They were dealing with a hell of a lot of change at that time. And so every worker counts from what we're also. where we're sitting. And the background to this dispute, this is not a dispute about affordability. You know, Royal Mal have made literally on the backs of their staff, record profits of £758 million. They chose to pay £400 million to the shareholders. And at the same time as the CEO received a bonus of £140,000, they decided to impose a 2% pay rise on the workforce. That's a big mistake. How much do you get paid?

I get paid £107,000. It's a hell of a lot of money. There is a difference. Let me just explain that. A cat can be middling fat or very fat or extremely fat or unfairly fat. My point being, I'm not begrudging you what you earn. But are you worth any more or less than a boss of these companies? Well, that's for our members to determine.

What do you think? Because, well, I'm going to tell you the circumstances. We're a democratic organisation. I get elected every five. years. So it's not a permanent job in that sense. And every year we send out financial report that's got all the salaries of our officers. And our organisation can debate that every year. And branches, reps and members can come there and change that if they don't think that's right. And I'm sure that, you know, if we have that debate, we'll have to live with whatever the outcome of that is.

Compare that to some of the people who are the real fat cats who are on something like 30 or 40 times their workforce in terms of... Is that a salary number you gave me? Is that the exact one or is that after you've deducted tax? Well, it's a salary as I know, a salary. What's the total package you gave? That's gross. That's gross.

What's your total package? My total package, I don't look at the national insurance. 143,000 is reported. It's probably around that if you add pension. I mean, here's my point. But you'll add pension contributions and national insurance contribution. Again, I'm not...

My salary is £17,000. Your package is $143,000, right? I'm not begrudging it. What do you ask me the question? Well, because a lot of the union leaders are running around going, these fat-cat bosses, and I'm like, a lot of people watching this who are really on the breadland and be like,

well, what about you lot? You're all on 140 grand a year. I was a postal worker for many, many years. And I accept completely. What were you earning then? I was probably earning about 20,000 pounds. Well, there you're earning... Look, I'm not...

I'm not here. So you're earning seven times... You're only seven times what you used to as a boss. My point is... Don't try and get away from the central point. I'm simply saying. Members can make their judgment on my pay. It's a democratic organisation.

Let CEOs put up their salaries and let members vote on that. I am not begrudging your money. I'm just saying when you spray around the word fat cats as the union bosses are doing, a lot of them are pretty fat themselves when it comes to salaries. Certainly a lot fatter than their employees. Can I say something? One of the problems, I'm not suggesting by any stretch that I'm facing the same issues that all of our members are on the current cost of living crisis.

So is targeting the bosses over their pay fair, given that you're pretty well paid yourself? No, of course it's fair, because we're not anywhere near in that league. And, you know, these are people who I don't think are growing businesses anymore. I think there was a time many, many years back where people might have argued that a good boss, you know, grows a business, and you wouldn't worry too much about what they got. That's not what's happening in the UK today. These are people who are hitting numbers, and they don't care what the impact. How much have you been offered by raw mail so far?

They say five and a half percent. Let me say what's actually happened. There was a 2% increase that's been imposed. So we rejected that. Is it true they've offered up to five and a half percent? What they offered linked to change was another 3.5% linked to unacceptable change, which we're never going to agree. But I would say to you, there are debates to be had about...

By the way, they've now agreed when they imposed a 2%. they've now agreed to treat change separately. And there are separate talks going on about that. But say for arguments that you end up at 4 or 5%, right? Would that be acceptable to you? No, I don't think it would be acceptable at the moment because inflation's running at 11%. But here's my point again, Dave.

If we accept them sort of pay offers, and that's not on the table, you know, I have to say that our members pay will be permanently eroded. But here's my problem with this whole issue. Like I said at the start, the first question about all this. If everybody wants a pay rise for their workers in line with inflation, this country goes bust.

You accept that, right? No, what I actually think you're saying in that sense is that, you know, do you really expect to get everybody up to that level? Well, that's a matter for negotiation. We're not silly people. We will know what a good deal is at the time. But if everyone is getting big pay rises right now, this country can I pick up your point about the country going bust?

I think we need to have a proper discussion in this country about the main issue that's at the heart of every injustice you see. And the common denominator is this, it doesn't matter whether it's the financial crisis in 2008, whether it's the pandemic, whether it's a climate crisis or a cost of living crisis, the rich and the powerful are getting richer and more powerful and working people are paying the price.

I don't disagree with it. So what are we going to do about it? We have to do something about it. I think that is a set. By the way, on the spiral in inflation, I don't think there's enough focus on how these companies, who I know for a fact, two companies there, BT and Royal Mail, put their prices up by about 10%

earlier this year when inflation was running about 5%. And they are creating some of the spiraling inflation. And I tell you why, to protect their profit margins and also to feed into some of the salaries. I think you raise a lot of, look, I think like a lot of the union leaders, it's Mick Lynch included, I think you're all raising a lot of valid points. There's no question.

My issue with the problem right now is the country is in an economic meltdown. And if actually all these strikes happen, we have a terrible summer of massive discontent, we will tip ourselves into a really serious, possibly in the short term, irrevocable financial crisis, which might cause immeasurably more harm than anything we're even seeing now. And I think you guys probably know that. And you must be starting to feel a little bit uneasy that if everyone goes out on strike and everybody wants pay rises,

what happens to this country? Well, look, we're not at a point where everyone's gone on strike. I believe all workers deserve higher pay in the current circumstances. It's a matter for their individual unions to deal with that. And I'll repeat what I said earlier on. No, there'll be settlements if the companies that employ these workers

actually start putting decent offers on the table. Now, that's a matter of. for negotiation. So I think the circumstances you're talking about are unlikely to happen. But I would say to you that I do think it's time for a serious change in the UK about the whole

way that we think about the world of work, the way that the economy is rigged against working people, and including that, you know, the injustices and inequalities that are growing in society. We've got to do something about... You know what, Dave? I don't disagree with it, and I think work in practice is changing. Join our union, Piz.

Well, I support unions. I support unions. I don't see it. But I support responsible unions behaving responsibly on behalf of their workers. I'm just worried at the moment about the greater, bigger picture for the country.

This country cannot afford to start giving everybody massive pay rises. And if everyone goes out and strike without getting one, we're going to be up a creek without a paddle. Do you accept that the country

can't afford the inequalities that are growing at the moment? So let's agree on that and let's work forward on all those. I agree that some bosses get way too much money out of kilter with their performance.

I agree with what you just said. And I agree that you should be supporting your workers as best you can. But I don't want to see everybody out on strike. Well, at least we're having a ballot. You just walked out. And we're having a good conversation. All right. And you came in, which. I appreciate. Dave, good to see it. No worries. Thank you very much. And says the next was BBC journalist Jill Dando, killed by mistake by a Russian assassin,

an extraordinary development in that story. We're talking about that and more with my Pierce Pack next. Well, I'm joined now by tonight's Pierceback, broadcast and political commentator, Adam Bolton, talk to the contributor, Esther Cracko, and the Happy Monday's frontman, Sean Ryder. What a magnificent addition to the Peir's pack he is. Even, Sean. Hello, Pearce. How you doing, bro? I'm great, man.

All the better for having you back in my life, albeit briefly. Sean, I'll come to you in a moment. I'm just going to talk to you guys just to get your immediate reaction, Adam, to the interview I just did there with another union boss, Dave Ward. Any sympathies for his position?

I think it is turning out to be different from previous strike. I mean, Dave Ward is a reasonable man, as indeed is the, sounds reasonable, as indeed is the leader of the RMT. I think the problem is twofold for the government. One, inflation is high, and these pay awards aren't going even approaching that. And two, the arguments about what about the better off, which, you know, you were going into a bit, is very pertinent at the moment because the wage gap and the wealth gap has got wider. And I think looking at the public reaction to the rail strikes, for example, people are waking up to that.

And I do think, SD, you know, when I've discovered last week, as we all did, that the government post-Brexit has basically given the nod to the bankers. You can all give yourselves whatever bonuses you like. You're no longer capped by the EU caps. I was like, really? What a time. Yeah. What a time to send that message. Exactly.

The PR around that is terrible. But I also think one of the things I have noticed with a lot of these unions is they're asking, one of the conditions they're asking for is to guarantee sort of long-term job security. Even people in the private sector can't demand that. If you're in an industry or if you're in a job where it's relatively lower-skilled, lower-paid. Your industry always risks, you know, automation and that sort of thing. And I just, I don't, I think that's a step too far.

I certainly don't think the, you know, inflation matching pay rise is not going to happen. And I don't think they should happen just for the sake of the country. But I understand sort of a lot of the points they're making, especially with the salaries the bosses make. But again, that's not an issue that I don't think the Tories will tackle now because at the moment Boris is a dead man walking politically. I don't, I think, you know,

it's really hard to make this feat, but he's actually less respected than Blair at the lower Well, the interesting thing is a bit like with Blair, actually, it's an interesting analogy, because Blair on the international stage, even now in America, he's usually popular. It's here domestically that Iraq did him in. And you see with Boris, he's been sort of done in by party gate, but on the international stage, he's kind of holding his own and doing quite well with Ukraine and everything. By holding his own, I think, you know, remember Macron referred to.

But he's not out of place on the international stage. Except on Ukraine, it's very difficult to see any area where Britain is actually. having any salience in terms of international negotiations at the moment. And so, you know, it's always a difference. When you go around the world with the Prime Minister, do people want to stop and see them, or do they just walk on by? And in Boris's case, they want to stop and see them,

but often because they think he's going to do something funny. One person who's having possibly an even tougher time than Boris Johnson right now is Prince Charles. Yeah. Now, this revelation on the Sunday Times, Esther, I thought was pretty bad, actually. The idea that Prince Charles has accepted suitcase, Well, actually, there were Fortlandman Mason Carrier bags

of millions of euros in cash from the former Prime Minister of Qatar. Now, albeit, apparently, no wrongdoing, it all went to the charity. But you can't have a future king of England. You might be king imminently, accepting bagfuls of cash from former Prime Ministers of Qatar.

Again, it's the optics of that, right? If you're a powerful enough man to be receiving bags of money, even though that did go to a charity, it's very jarring to have that same kind of privileged person telling us what we should do about climate change and all of these things. You're clearly living in a completely different world. Most people need to use cars to get to work and all of these things. Most people can't use the trains now because a lot of train workers are

striking. So for you to harp on about the issues that you do when really that there's, it shows that there's a huge disconnect between him and how normal people live. The thing is, you never, you'd never see the Queen get caught up in a scandal. She would distinctively know bankfuls of cash from someone who's been running Qatar actually not a good idea, not a good look. No, these days you wouldn't take a bag of cash from any more. It should be said nothing illegal done. It was a few years ago. But I think, you know, one of the interesting things is it just shows the disrespect

that the man giving him the money had. Yes. You know, here he's former Prime Minister of Qatar. And he just says, oh, you know, he's a carry a bag full of 50 euro notes. Also, given he apparently lives a lot of time in the UK, this guy, I wonder if he declared it. Yeah. And if you're handing, why are you handing it all over in cash?

Well, probably didn't. That's another thing. Well, that's another issue. And then you've got the future king of England. and caught up in all... And 500 euro notes. I mean, they're actually discontinuing them because of their effect on crime.

Money laundering, yeah. Now, I want to turn to Sean Ryder. He's been waiting patiently. Sean, I want to talk to you... I want to talk to you. Not about those things, you'd be pleased to you. I want to talk to you about rock festivals. We saw the return of Glastonbury.

And I'm going to say, although I would literally rather go to Hellen back than actually go to Glastonbury and sit in a stinking tent surrounded by stinking people for four days. I got to say, I did enjoy watching it on TV. I love the spectacle. I love the huge crowds.

And what was interesting to me was a lot of the biggest stars of the festival were the old rockers. Paul McCartney, Diana Ross and others. Let's take a little look at a clip of two of them. Now, what was your reaction, Sean? First of all, to the return of festivals. Do you like festivals?

And secondly, to Macca and Diana Ross. Well, you know what? I was just listening to that there, right? And it's live, right? Okay, so, you know, you don't get the sound checks. You're going to get at a normal show. Everything's really hurried, you know, including for the headline acts. But what I just heard then sounded brilliant, you know.

Really? You know, bits of chatter about out of key and all that lot. But to me, base, I mean, I might be off me nuts, but or not. I don't think you're off your nose, but you might need your ears cleaned out because I thought this, I watched the whole of Paul McCartney's set and the whole of Diana Ross's set. I thought McCartney was magnificent. I thought that was honestly one of the greatest Glastonbury shows

I've ever seen. But I also thought he was brilliantly judicious. He was brilliant in the selection of the songs he chose to sing. He understands the limitation of his voice, and I thought he got away with it. However, Diana Ross, I'm really sorry, but she sounded like a bunch of drowning cats. What were you listening to?

Well, I'm not going to start slaggy Dianna off, am I? You know, at the end of the day, right, she's got to go on there and do her live show, obviously, and, you know, with her limited sound check and, you know, all good on her. I mean, at the end of the day, Diana can sing, you know, she can't. And it's really tough going out and doing a show at Glastonbury. You know, she's not going to get the best sound check.

She really isn't. So, let me ask you show. Let me ask you. What was interesting to me, Diana Ross performed at the, she was the sort of final act of the Platinum Jubilee. The Queen, yeah. And she sounded fantastic.

But obviously because she was auto-tuned, right? They helped her. Why couldn't they do that at Glastonbury so that you actually preserve her dignity a bit better? Because there's no time to do that piece. He really isn't. I mean, I don't know how many acts was on before her or how many acts was on after her,

but you really haven't gone. got the time to do what they did when she was going out, performing for the Queen and all that gang. I'm really not going to sit here and start slagging her off, really. And actually, it's not an easy job. Don't get me wrong. I love Diana Ross, and I think she's one of the greatest singers in history. It's just interesting to me in the last week, you've seen Elton John in England, you see Mick Jagger doing it with the Stones, Paul McCartney and Diana Ross.

And I've got to say, you know, Elton, he sort of gets. away with it because he's lowered the range of his singing. Mick Jagger was never that greatest singer and he's a brilliant performer and seems to maintain the same level of reasonably media. But he's not a great singer Mick Jagger, isn't it? Can't say that? Meat Jagger is not a great singer.

He's a brilliant singer. No, he's the best bell winging ringer going in the world. No, he's a great hip wiggler. He's earned his right. He's a brilliant performer. Well, he is, yeah. You would never compare him to a singer like Freddie Mercury, would you? He's not a great singer.

I'd rate him better than Freddie Mercury for what Mick does. You know, I mean, you know, Freddy's going out there doing what Freddy does and Mick's going out there doing what Mick does. Yeah. And they're both genius and they're just both incredible performers and brilliant bell ringers. Both of them. I do love a brilliant bell ringer.

Short, you're on fire. Stay there. Short break and we'll be back after the break with my sensational peers. All performing at the top of their game, I have to say. Age cannot wither them. They'll custom stale their infinite variety. Well, but Pierce Pack are still with me. So, Adam, you've been fulminating there in the break about my comments about,

you think Mick Jagger's a good singer for one, which is a ludicrous position, take. I do think he's very good singer. I'm actually going to Stones next weekend. I mean, they're brilliant the Stones, but he's never been a great singer, Jagger. I think he has. I mean, I think he could do falsetto. What he can't do anymore is the falsetto, the sort of stuff he did on Angie and other things.

And Dina Ross? Yeah, well, listen, you're completely wrong about Glastonbury. I mean, the one who's really lost his voice is Paul McCart. No! I know he's a national treasure. No, he can sing better than that. And I know everyone loves singing along to Hey Jude and all that. But if you actually listen to it, his voice is gone.

Diana Ross's voice, I felt, is also going, but is more to it. No. Than there isn't the place is going. What is going? I mean, Diana Ross didn't have to bring on, what was it, Galsh and Springsteen. the back her up. No, but that was a good idea.

McCartney played 35 songs in three nights. We all heard what we just heard. I don't have got in death, I know. I'm sorry, Diana Ross is, no. The thing is, I genuinely think, because I don't know if you remember that performance by Mariah Carey in New York, like years ago, and that was god awful, right?

New Year's day, yeah. Yeah, obviously, the older you get, the more strain your vocals are. I think she should have chosen, like, sort of ballads that are slower that didn't have as much noise because she really sounded. Diana Ross still wants to play all the big hits but she hasn't got the race to do.

She sounded like a bad, But McCarkey chooses the right songs. He murdered Blackbird. No, he didn't murder Blackbird. Dare you. It's actually saccharges to talk about Paul McCarty. This is the point. You can't actually look at it as objectively as an artistic performance

because, you know, he's second only to David Attenborough in terms of national... And I think he deservedly so. Let me go back to Sean Ryder. Sean... Sean, what do they get your take? Not on that anymore. You know, you lot, in that studio, Pierce, you are off your nuts. Go on.

Bring it all off your nuts. I mean, if you put Diana Ross, right, in a studio, in a controlled environment, in a studio, not the wild west of Glasdenberry, right, winging it, put Diana in a studio where she's like Pavarotti and controlled and can hear everything perfectly, then Diana will come up with the goods. It's like throwing anyone to the way. It's a raw thing. Sean, I hesitate to lecture you about singing.

Although I have had my own moments in front of a microphone. Well, I'm not a singer piece. Neither is Bob Dylan. You know, at the end of the day, if I came along now, and Bob Dylan came along now, we would be called rappers because we don't technically sing like Pavarotti. You know, so there's a whole different thing going on. You know what I mean?

I mean, Jagger does what Jagger does, and he gets over every lyric, and he keeps key. Don't get me wrong. Don't get me wrong. Mick Jagger is a great rock star. Arguably, in my opinion, the greatest rock star there's been. McCartney, to me, is the greatest pop star. Diana Ross was the female kind of equivalent,

a fantastic with the Supreme's brilliant solo. But sadly, as we heard at Glastonbury, her voice is just no longer strong enough to carry a show like that. It just isn't. Well, I'm not having that piece. I'm not having that. She had a bad night.

Well, Esther, it's me and Esther. It's the young one. Frankly, she had a bad night. against the oldie. I know. I don't think she had a bad night. I really don't. No, I don't either.

I'll give it out. Just one thing. Just because of you lot. One thing, though. I mean, your voice does change as you get older, doesn't it? And, you know, my position is, if all of them hung up their microphone right now, I wouldn't regard it as a tragedy. Well, I actually thought the McCartney...

Sacrilege. For Paul McCartney aged 80 to do that show he did last night, nearly three hours. I just thought was magical, absolutely magical. I really did. And I think your denigration of this godlike figure is actually bordering our sacrilege. I do. But I just think it was great.

I mean, Sean, when you play a festival... What does denigration mean, Piers? It means to, you know... Speak to me in Sofodian. What does denigration mean? It means to talk something down, you know? I mean, we're buddies, and I don't even know what denigration means.

You know, Sean, I was telling somebody earlier about our little escapé with Ronnie Biggs in Rio. It brought back very fond memories. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Let's just say my melons got well and truly twisted by you lot. They got squisted.

They certainly did, peeve, they got twisted. Now, Sean, in even your wildest times, have you ever eaten stinging nettles? Have they ever eaten stinging nettles? I don't think so. Right, so I've got a plate for this, I have a plate for the stinging nettles here. These stinging nettles are, they're repellent things.

They look disgusting. They taste even worse. And they actually sting you. So the very last thing you should ever do, obviously, is eat them. And yet in a part of Britain right now, that's what they're doing. Yeah, over the weekend, there was the World Stinging Nettle Eating Championship at the Dorset Nectar Cider Farm on Saturday. You can see them all chow in. Look at these lunatics.

All munching on stinging nettles, just to remind you, look awful, taste even worse, and actually put toxic materials into your stomach. Here are the winners. Lindy Rogers was the queen of nettle eating. Again, she's won it before, 42 feet of steel nettles she consumed, while a man known only as Nile beat off his rivals by eating 54 feet of nettles.

Sean Ryder, what do you think of that? I think that's wild. Do you know what? I actually agree. I actually agree. You know, to me, I started to start a little bit. thinking it was nuts. And then I thought, actually, it's a fantastic example of great British eccentricity. There's nowhere else in the world, but they would have a British stinging nettle

competition. And the fact that we have people mad enough in this country to eat 50 feet of this stuff makes me proud to be British. Panel, are we in agreement? No. Yes, yes, we are. Why are they stinging you? I don't know, because I'm impervious to sting. Short Rider, final word, are you proud to be British with these people? Oh yeah, I'm well proud to be, Prick. Yeah, of course I am, yeah. Sean, it's brilliant to have you. It's brilliant to have you,

and I look forward having a stinging nettle eating competition with you one day soon, because we've done pretty much everything else together. Great to see you, great to see my panel. That's it from me, whatever up to, keep it unscensored. Good night.