Piers Morgan Uncensored - Piers Morgan Uncensored: Mickey Rourke Part Two

Episode Date: July 12, 2022

This episode of Piers Morgan Uncensored sees the second part of Piers' uncensored interview with Mickey Rourke where he reveals the US Secret Service came to visit his months ago after threatening to beat up President Trump. Piers also follows up on yesterdays comments from Mickey where he said Tom Cruise was an irrelevance by asking: "is the Top Gun, a top flop?". Later in the show the world's leading fertility expert, Lord Robert Winston, also joins Piers to continue the controversial debate of 'what is a Woman?' Watch Piers Morgan Uncensored at 8pm on TalkTV on Sky 526, Virgin Media 627, Freeview 237 and Freesat 217. Listen on DAB+ and app. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I'm Pierce Morgan, uncensored. Tonight, part two of my explosive interview with Hollywood legend Mickey Rourke. Has been making global headlines today. Now he reveals the US Secret Service came to see him months ago when he threatened to beat up President Trump. What did you say about him? Just the truth. Which is what?

Read my mind. Last night, Mickey told me that Tom Cruise isn't acting irrelevance. So it's the top gun, a top flop. that. Plus for a while I've been asking, what is a woman? Well, tonight, the world's leading fertility expert Lord Robert Winston, we would be live to answer what should be a simple question. And just eight candidates remain in the race for number 10s. Who will be Britain's next Prime Minister? We'll have all the very latest on that. Good evening on Piers Morgan, uncensored. Last night's world exclusive interview with Hollywood comeback king, Mickey Rourke was emotional, it was raw, engaging

and explosive. I'd build him as a man who burns every bridge in Tinsel Town. and last night he burned Tom Cruise. That doesn't mean shit to me. The guy's been doing the same effing part for 35 years. You know, I mean, I got no respect for that. Well, those scathing comments made headlines across the globe. There's going to be a lot more where that came from tonight. What follows is a conversation that got ever more gripping as it went on.

In fact, it was so compelling, I decided to do something I've never done before. I kept taping with Mickey after last night's show ended. And tonight, the sensational second part of our interview, well, it features Mickey Rural opening up on why the only person he can't be uncensored about is Donald Trump. I don't need another visit from the Secret Service. On partying with Tupac. We never saw the daylight.

I mean I love him. I miss him. And how many times has he been properly in love? Once. Once. Who with? You know who with? I did. And I guess correctly. There are many more bombshells to follow. It's an unmissable exchange.

I'm sure you'll be reading about it tomorrow, but you'll see it here first tonight. We start with breaking news in the race to lead the Conservative Party. And of course, the United Kingdom, eight candidates have made it through to the first round in the battle to replace Boris Johnson as Prime Minister. Talk to the East political editor Kate McCann joins me now. Kate, good evening to you. Evening. We're down to eight. Are we going to be down to four very quickly, do you think?

Well, there are some in Westminster who think that we could well be, although there is confidence tonight from some of the campaigns, including those like Jeremy Hunt, who believe they will be able to reach that threshold of 30 votes, which they need to hit tomorrow, to move to the next stage. But the idea, and this is why Graham Brady in the 1922 committee, have whittled down and changed the leadership rules, is that they want to make this happen as fast as possible

because you can see those eight on screen there. It is still a pretty big field of candidates. And the chat in Westminster tonight is that Rishi Sunak is likely to be one of the front runners, but second place could well go to pretty much anyone else. Liz Truss is having a good run, and there are others too like Penny Morden, but the field is pretty open at the minute, peers. And the process is pretty straightforward, isn't it? They whittle it down probably to final two,

by next week. And then those two go out, they try and sell themselves to the, I think it's 180,000 conservative members, who will then decide by September the 5th, which is the day that we will be told the name of the new Prime Minister.

That's exactly it. And Graham Brady has asked those two final candidates, whoever they may be, to make a pledge that they won't drop out of the race because he wants to see it go to the members to ensure that that candidate does have the full backing of the party. Because this leadership race

already getting quite sticky. There are some dark arts behind the scenes, some briefing against some of those front runners. A little bit of misogyny and sexism, I have to say, too, in Westminster today, again, some of the candidates, including Penny Mordant from some senior Tories. So it is getting quite dirty. And I think bringing the members in means that the party can be certain that they have somebody, everyone can unite behind in theory. The question is, who will they go for? Because some believe that the Conservative members want someone who's going to slash tax, who's going to really go back to the Conservative Party's roots and do it very quickly, while others, including some of those Red Wall Tory MPs who are speaking to their members, doing some polling behind the scenes,

believe that Rishi Sunak might well be best place, because he is conservative and small C conservatives don't really like change, so he could well be the candidate that people end up backing in the end. So it's all still open. Penny Morden's team have just sent me a WhatsApp message showing some polling that suggests she's the only person who really could beat Rishy Sunax. So as I say, it's all to play for. And it's a bit hot and sticking. in Westminster today, not just on the campaign trail. I bet it is, but come on, McCain, get off the fence. Who's going to be the other?

I reckon Rishy's one of them, definitely. Who's the other one? Come on. Put your neck on the block. So I can replay it to you. The general consensus is it's probably going to relist trust, but I wouldn't bet against Penny Morden. I think she's got a good chance. She's got a bit of momentum.

She's got something that some of the other candidates don't have, which is that she hasn't necessarily been as high profile as Rishy Sunek and this trust over the last couple of months. Maybe for some, that's a good thing. Well, it's going to be riveting few days and already utterly ruthless, just the way I like my politics. So I'm sure we'll be talking again tomorrow. Kate, thank you very much indeed. Thank you.

Well, now to the rest of that extraordinary interview with Mickey Rourke. He was moved to tears discussing the war in Ukraine. And when last night's show ended rather abruptly, I said that we would keep the conversation going and we would then show the viewers later what we said to each other. And it turned out to be a remarkable exchange. I mean, Mickey, when you talk so powerfully about Ukraine and what's happened to the people there, you must think back to your experience of meeting Putin

and question whether he really did have the ability to be empathetic. I saw it with my... I saw it with my own eyes. I saw it the way he treated me. Okay, but by being... Something changed. and all this mayhem and this death and this killing, I didn't see that when I was at the children's home

with the little kids that all had cancer and he was so genuine and empathetic. And I saw someone who really cared. Now, people might be mad at me for saying something like that, but I saw him in 214. Right now, what's going to be. on right now, I don't, I don't, I think, I don't believe in that war. I think it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, my best friend in

the world who I love more than anybody is from Ukraine. He just got his family out of Mikhailaya and, you know, every day when Dima, who's Ukrainian, comes to work with me, you know, the first thing I say to him is how, how, how's your mother house, how's your family, Yes, because, you know, when demon knocks on the door to come to work, what's going through my mind before he opens the door, he's going to tell me something not good. What is your message for Putin if you had a chance to give it to him? You're not going to live forever.

Look at all, look at, you know, Peter the Great Napoleon. What the fuck? What happened to them trying to get more and more and more? And just, you know, you've got your power, your money. Just live your life and, you know, let these people in Ukraine be independent, a democratic society they want to live in. And just stop today, stop now, not tomorrow. Just stop right now.

Mickey, you recently posted a statue of liberty crying. It was an image of statute of liberty crying in tears. And you captioned it with a lot of, of truth. What did you mean by that? Well, because they call it the United States of America, but it's now the divided states of America.

And there's one big reason for that, but I'm not going to go into it because I don't need another visit from the Secret Service. When did you have one before? Oh, about six months ago. Why? Take a wild guess.

Was it because of something you said about President Trump? Yeah. What did you say about him? Just the truth. Which is what? Read my mind. And the Secret Service actually came to see you. Oh, yeah.

And what do they say? A lot. And that's just way over my head, so I got nothing to say anymore about nothing. Are you sad? They're still trying to figure out what happened to Kennedy's brain. All right? Are you sad, Mickey, about what's happening to America? No, because I've never felt comfortable in this country to begin with.

I've always enjoyed the UK. I've always enjoyed France. I've always enjoyed Italy. I've always enjoyed Russia. I haven't been to the Ukraine. I can't go right now. But I've never really felt comfortable in my own country, really. I've always liked other countries better.

What do you feel about... You never hear Italy. I think I'm right in saying, Mickey, that Joe Biden was the first time you'd voted for any president. What do you think of how he's doing? He's doing all he can do with the mess that he's gone on his hands. Is he too old, though, for the job, do you think? I don't think it has anything to do with his age.

I think it's going to take another... After the last thing... It's going to take another 30 years for this country to straighten itself out, if it ever can again. It's divided. You can feel it. I've lost friends over it. But I'm not going to be outspoken about it anymore. I don't need the FBI to call me up and tell me that some Trump fanaticals got me on a hit list and all that. You know what?

I'm moving to Texas. My place is going to be fortified like, no. nobody's business. And if somebody wants to come through my gates, it's going to be the last two steps they ever make. Mickey, I wanted to talk to you also about what happened to your friend Johnny Depp. What did you think of that case and the fact that in the end he won it? Well, you know, I know Johnny for many years, but I don't really know him intimately.

All I could say is I was in a situation one time where I got blamed for something. that I didn't do. It cost me movie jobs for several years, and it caused me a bad reputation, and finally the truth came out, but the truth came out after I lost movies and I lost jobs, and so I felt bad for somebody

that is trying to get chopped down by some gold digger, you know? You think that's what she was? Absolutely. Absolutely. You have a Russian model girlfriend, I believe. Is that going well? No, no, no.

That was several years ago. Are you single now? I've been single for seven years. Really? Yeah. Do you like it that way? The first four years, it was really lonely. But I realized that I couldn't keep going out with women

that were going to... If I ever have a relationship ever again, I hope maybe somebody comes into my life that I can trust. How many times have you been, would you say, properly in love in your life? Once. Once? Who with? You know who with.

Well, you tell me. You tell me. I'll guess it was Carrie. Yes. it was. So he was the love of your life? That was 23 years ago. We haven't seen each other or spoke. If you did see her, what would you say, Mickey? Nothing. Do you have any regrets about the way it all ended? I've got a lot of regrets about a lot of things, you know, so that contradicts that Frank Sinatra song. Yeah, I did it my, I did it my way, but he says too few, too few to mention.

I got too many to remember. Well, it says the next Mickey opens up on his close friendship with Tupac, 25 years since the rapper's shocking death. We had a lot of stuff in common. And we loved each other, you know, deeply. And I think about them all the time. Welcome back now to the final part of this explosive interview that's making headlines across the planet. Hollywood's comeback King Mickey Roy. very much uncensored.

What do you make of the way Tyson Fury handles himself, the World Heavyweight Chats? I love Tyson Fury. He has so much ability, it's not even funny. Do you think he'll fight again? He says he's given up? Every fighter says they've given up, and they all come back.

How do you rate him in the pantheon of heavyweight champs? Excuse me? How do you rate Tyson in the list of, the greatest ever? One of the very best ever because of his size, but he's also a very fluid fighter. He uses

feints. He uses his jab. He's very intelligent. He's got a very extremely high boxing IQ and it's in his blood. And he knows how to pace himself. Plus, he takes

one hell of a punch and gets back up. When you were boxing, Mickey, obviously you got to know a lot of boxers, you've got to know the art of boxing, you were a very good boxer yourself. Who is the boxer in history of any weight you would have least wanted to get in the ring with at their peak?

Well, there's two different things there. There's like a great fighter, like Lennox Lewis, that is eventually going to catch him. because of his height, his reach, his boxing IQ. And then there's the first four or five rounds with Mike Dyson. Yeah. You know. One fighter I admire so much as from your country was Henry Cooper.

Oh, yeah? Yeah. Yeah. Well, he could have beaten Ali, couldn't he? He had a chance. Well, he actually did. If the gloves didn't get cut, the time would have ran out. Yeah, that's what I mean, yeah.

Yeah, oh yeah. Do you still box, Mickey, in your... Yes, I do. Yeah. I'm trying to decide if I'm going to have one last one. Mike Tyson is still fighting. Why don't you finally get in the ring with Tyson? Test your theory.

I don't mess around with anything over 220 pounds. No. How is your feud with Robert Denis? Is that showing any sign of Thoris? There's no fuse. It's just a lot of people try to stir up . I have nothing, I have no feeling whatsoever on the subject. Who is the greatest actor you've ever seen?

Aside from myself. Aside from yourself? Oh, I would say Marlon Brando, Monty Cliff. Richard Harris Who? Charles Bronson. He was great. He was great, actually.

But you are a great actor, Mickey. I mean, you are one of the great actors. When you were on your absolute A-game, you were up there with any of the greats, I think. Well, I'm back on my A-game. You think you still are? No, I know I am. Are you considering any roles at the moment you think could show us?

Well, I just had a great experience with Roman Polanski I'm going to go over to Paris I work with Jean-Ranoe and if it's a Casale And so we've got some very interesting projects lined up On Polansky, I mean it's a very controversial figure Polanski he is technically a fugitive in a child rapist Well aside from I don't know much about that Because he never went to court

and there were a lot of people that told their side of the story where he already had taken off. Well, he did go to court, he did go to court, Mickey. He got convicted, and then he had gone there. Well, I didn't know all about that. I only know about working with him as a director and it being one of my most pleasurable experiences acting ever. And if I could work with him one or two times,

would really be very fortunate and very happy. I loved working with him. It doesn't bother you that he fled justice? No. Really? Yeah. I mean, would you work for somebody like Harvey Weinstein, for example, knowing what you know now?

I turned down a couple jobs from Harvey Weinstein. But I worked with him. I can't answer that. What's the moment, Mickey, of your entire career, that if I had the ability to let you relive it now, you would choose to relive? My career or my life? Yeah, your career.

Well, I'll come to your life as well, but first your career. I did a movie once that I was, they paid me a lot of, an enormous amount of money, and I was a shot. I was ashamed of doing it. I was a shame that I sold out.

And that's when I left acting, and went back to fighting for six years. And so I really regretted doing this one particular movie because they paid me a lot of money and I went and bought a big house and all that . Which was the movie? Harley Davidson and the Marlborough Man. And if you had your time again, you just wouldn't do it?

Absolutely. I loved working with Don Johnson. Johnson it was just the I didn't like the material or the director was a can I say can I say what's next Mickey what do you want to achieve you're a guy you said you're in your third your third act now well I'm going to be yeah the beginning first of all I'm moving to Texas I think that's gonna be really good for me to be in a place where I I I don't know I could be around horses which I love and I can get myself very focused.

I can stay, keep myself in really good physical shape and mental shape. I've always kept my spirituality, very private, but it's a very strong part of my life. What do I want to do now, and I started doing this about two years ago, was when I get an opportunity to work, I do, I want to do the best, job in that moment that I could ever possibly give the director to do. In other words, I'm not going to walk through it. I'm going to give them everything I got because from now on, every job I get, they're going to get all of me. What does it take, Mickey, to be a truly great actor? I think a lot of hard work and discipline and to be able to be brave enough to make choices.

that are interesting choices that are either going to be really, really good or terrible. And the other question I wanted to ask you, what was it like to party with Tupac? We never saw the daylight. I mean, I love him. I miss him

daily, you know. We were very similar. We had a lot of stuff in common. And we loved each other, you know, deeply. And I think about them all the time. Do you? Yeah, all the time.

On a weekly basis, practically. You seem, Mickey, and I don't want this to sound patronizing, but you seem happier than I've known you for a while, more content in your own skin, perhaps. Well, you know, I think for some, strange reason the the year and a half that I didn't leave my house and I brought all my weight equipment and all my boxing equipment and I isolated myself for a year and a half it helped me kind of get centered about my priorities and and to the worst thing anybody can get is bitter

and that's the one thing I said I would never get I remember several years ago being at the film festival and there was an actor who used to be a movie star but not anymore and all he was doing was bad-mouthing some actor and I was listening to him going besides the fact that you're a junkie and an alcoholic here you are bad-mouthed in this guy and it's like you're just a bitter and I go I never want to get like that you know people say to me what's your best film and I say I haven't made it yet which is a great answer because it shows that you look forward not back right? Oh yeah

yeah with both hands when you do finally have to look back because you're no longer with us how would you like to be remembered if you could write your own tombstone and it said here lies Mickey Rourke he I don't really care to be remembered that way really you don't want to be remembered at all that's not relevant to me I'm looking forward to when I go to heaven

and I can see where most of my friends are now well some of them are in hell but I mean I'm looking forward to the next journey I mean I don't fear death I fear dying but I don't fear death because I truly believe it's going to be like a big happy reunion

who are you most looking forward to seeing up in heaven Most of all, my brother, my younger brother, Joe, Joey, my grandmother, my father, Samance and uncles I didn't get to know, Tupac, good looking Thomas, like to meet Steve McQueen, Paul Newman, all those guys, Monty Cliff, you know. I mean, there's more people that I love. I mean, the older you get, the more people around you die. I mean, you know, two months ago, Ray Leota was alive. Two weeks ago, Jimmy Kahn was alive.

I mean, I miss Willie DeVille, one of my favorite singers, you know. And it's like I've got more people, you know, gone than here. So it's like, you know, that's just another journey that I'm looking forward to. Well, so am I, Mickey. It's been fantastic to interview you. Thank you so much for all your time. I really appreciate it. Okay, thank you very much.

Bless you. All the best to you. You see, that's what I call an interview. That's the kind of interview I want on Pierce Morgan, uncensored, because he's uncensored. That's the real Mickey Rourke. Water and all, good, bad, sometimes ugly, but actually fascinating and compelling, wasn't he?

And that's how I would like my movie stars to be. That's how I'd like everybody to be. Just say what's on your mind and don't worry about it. Better out than in, as my grandmother used to say. Anyway, thank you, Mickey Rort for a great interview. You can watch the whole thing. We'll re-air the whole thing on Friday. But on the sense of next, after Macy Gray was forced to back track,

well, she wasn't forced to, but she shouldn't have done, comments on this show about what a woman is. The Church of England now says it doesn't have an official definition. Well, TV scientist and top fertility expert, Lord Bob Winston, probably knows what a woman is. So I'm going to ask him after the break and try and get to the end of this puzzle. Well, welcome back. I'm joined now by

tonight's Pierce Back, Talk TV contributor Esther Cracker, and President Trump's former press secretary, Anthony Scaramucci. Well, welcome to both of you. DeMuch, how are you? I'm great, peers. What an interview. You know, I got to go watch the first part of that interview. That was absolutely

brilliant. Do you know what? There are certain people. I've interviewed Mickey Rourke quite a few times over the years. If you get him in the right mood, he is absolutely riveting to look at, to listen to, but above all else, he just speaks his mind. And it's so refreshing in these days when so many celebrities

are so sort of cosseted and protected and fearful about saying what they think. He just spews it out. I mean, I thought yesterday when he was talking about what makes a great actor and he said that for him, Tom Cruise is irrelevant in that debate.

You may be in the biggest blockbuster out there right now, but for him he's not a great actor. In other words, he's a movie star, not a great actor. What do you think of that? Well, you know, listen, I sort of disagree with it, but he's obviously, Mickey's obviously a method actor, and so he's probably making the point about Tom Cruise's method acting,

but I think Tom Cruise is a blockbuster, killer actor, and he's doing something peers that you and I are trying to do. We're trying to stay relevant as we age. Speak for yourself, Garamucci. You know, maybe you're more relevant than me, but I'm looking at him at 60, and I'm thinking, my God, I got to drink more protein shakes, you know, but as far as I'm just talking. I actually think, when Mickey said that, and he's made headlines around the world, that comment,

because people took it as being very derogatory about Cruz. But in a way, it reminded me the debate we had last week about Mick Jagger being a great singer. And I said, look, he's never been a great singer. Ironically, that's why he still manages to sound pretty much the same as he always did. He was never a great singer. What he is is the greatest rock star. and I think Cruz right now without any doubt is the biggest movie star on the planet

and he's proved it with Maverick with Top Gun Maverick but as an actor I don't know Esther what do you think of Cruz as an actor? I don't yeah I think he's a movie star he's not really an actor and this is the thing he can't transition into other genres I would never watch and I have to say

I watch romantic comedies like my head is on fire I could never even watch a romantic comedy with Tom Cruise No God though he's supposed to be tall and handsome and dark and he's just like this short action man. No, thank you. Well, talking of short action men, Anthony, I want to talk to you about Joe Biden.

I wrote a pretty excoriating column for the New York Post today in which I suggested it might be fast approaching the time for the Democrats to invoke the 25th Amendment to try and get him out of the White House before they get an absolute shalacking in the 2024 election.

Just give me a second period because I'm adjusting the phone book that I'm sitting on, okay? Wow, that was a rip on short people if ever, I heard one. But listen, you know, I think the president is still with it. I think one of the issues that he has is his age. And so when you're dealing with people, and this isn't an ages of comment, this is just a medical observation. The president looks like he's got five, possibly six good hours a day of sharp activity.

And unfortunately, that job requires 20 hours a day. And so I think his staff is trying to manage around that dilemma. But you and I have had this conversation before. I don't think he should be running again. That is a job for a younger person. I hate to say that. People will be mad at me probably in this age of political correctness. But it's just not the right.

Well, I think it entirely depends. I mean, you know, like a good friend of mine is Dame Joan Collins. You wouldn't meet a more lively, dynamic, energetic woman. She won't even want me to say how old she is in her late 80s. But by comparison to Joe Biden, we've done a little. clip mashup of Biden's sort of more cringmaking moments recently. But take it look at this. The men who do so, end of quote.

Repeat the line. Of course, President Harris, President Harris. Putin may circle Kiev with tanks, but he'll never gain the hearts and souls of the Iranian people. I mean, look, I don't like to laugh at people who are clearly in their dotage, but he is the president of the United States. He is the most powerful man in the world.

the leader of the free world. And all I see is somebody whose performance levels are getting worse, not better. We're not even at the midterm stage. It's only been in office 18 months. And I think there is, you know, behind the sort of jollity around this.

It was a very disturbing piece in the New York Times at the weekend, which is a pretty liberal paper, being very supportive of Biden, but basically saying he's too old and unfit for office now. Well, listen, I agree with that. And so, you know,

I will qualify that maybe Joan Collins is more with it and sharper, so it shouldn't be an age qualification, but certainly where the president is right now in terms of his stamina and his cognition, they have to be honest with him. He has to be honest with the American people, but it's very tough. As you know, Pierce, he is the most powerful person in the world. It is very hard to give up that power. Imagine the 1988 version of Joe Biden. Remember the plagiarism with Neil Kinnock? that Joe Biden ascended to the presidency. And I bet you at that time in 1988, he didn't expect ever to get to the presidency.

So he has it now. I think it's going to be very hard for him to want to relinquish it, even though we should. Esther, let's turn to British politics for a moment. We've down to the final eight candidates for the Tory leadership. You're a conservative. Do anyone excite you in this way?

It's incredibly diverse lineup. I mean, to credit to the Tories, for years they've been called two sort of pale, stale and male and male and white. Now suddenly incredibly diverse, a lot of women, ethnic minorities and so on. But ultimately, is there anyone that excites you as a potential leader? Not excite, but it's very hard to excite me, as you may get to learn eventually. But I think the issue I have here is the current sort of leadership hopefuls,

their track record doesn't match what they're saying. They're all saying the right things, low taxation, you know, I'm getting rid of the sort of the woke madness, the green agenda, all of these things. just to interrupt you on that. Most of them are saying they're going to cut taxes. The one who isn't is Rishi Sunak, who's been Chancellor through this incredible economic crisis and pandemic. And he goes back in his mind to what happened with Maggie Thatcher,

who became a big tax cutter, but to start with with her Chancellor Nigel Lawson, they actually put taxes up to get the economy back on track and not to have out-of-control inflation. And when the economy recovered, then they cut the taxes. This is what Rishi Soonak says we need to do. He's about the only one saying that. The others are all saying, jam today.

We'll work out of pay for it tomorrow. But this is the thing. And the argument is you want to balance the books before, because the UK is quite frankly broke. I mean, we took out the country's GDP worth in borrowing last year to deal with the pandemic. And so he's making that point. But also the bigger argument here is, you know,

we cannot tax our way into a more prosperous economy either. So while, you know, it's unrealistic, these tax cuts, obviously, that the hopefuls are proposing, there's also the argument that you cannot literally tax your country into prosperity. That's not how this works. So I don't think I'm hearing all the right things from the candidates just yet. I just said on optics, just purely based on optics, I think Penny Morden has the best optics of all of them. But again, I think it's still early days.

But at the moment, none of them excite me because I don't think they've proven a track record, really. Anthony, you want to talk to you quickly, just about something you've been evangelical about, which clearly is in trouble right now, which is cryptocurrency. Something I've never really understood. You've been very, very up for this. Clearly, you know, Bitcoin and others have been tanking, as has a lot of other stuff in the economy, obviously. But are you still a big believer in cryptocurrency?

Or do you think that actually it may be like the tulips in Holland? Yeah. So, listen, I started as a skeptic, thought it was the tulips, a pyramid scheme, and all that stuff. I think you'll find me on Twitter saying some things like that. After I did the homework, Pierce, This is a delayering mechanism for the economy.

So I just want you to think about all of our transactions and how we go through third parties. There will come a time where we'll be able to transact peer to peer. And when you stop and think about the most vivid example is you and I in the restaurant, I go to pay the bill, and I'm now bypassing MasterCard Visa in America Express by using the blockchain to pay the restaurant directly with value that's on my phone.

So when you stop and think about that, Mark Andreessen, who he himself invented the Netscape browser 27 years ago, when he really understood the magnitude of the cryptocurrency space and the blockchain, said this is bigger than the Netscape browser that he himself invented. So it's hard to explain it on television in a few minutes, but I wrote a small book about it. But you're still a believer, despite the fact it's all been crashing, you believe? I still believe. And remember, Amazon crashed in March of 2000. It went from 116. to six. People that left Amazon were sorely mistaken. And of course, Jeff Bezos

shout himself in outer space peers and took Captain Kirk with him. Okay, I'm going to get you back. I'm going to leave it there, but I'm going to get you back in six months and we'll see how we are. I'll get you back every six months and see what's going on. Hold me to it. Great to talk to you. Thanks for joining me. Esther, thank you very much. Really appreciate it. Well, I'll answer to the next. It's a big burning question of our time, isn't it? What is a woman? Well, who better to give us a straight scientific answer than the world's number one fertility expert, Lord Robert Winston, who we've apparently dragged into the street to give the answer to this seminal question.

We'll speak to him after the break. Welcome back to Pittsburgh and our sense. Did last week I asked the award-winning singer Macy Gray, but the woman was that she gave me a simple, honest answer, which sadly triggered an avalanche of online abuse. She's branded an ignorant bigot and a transphobe, and eventually went on the NBC Today's show in America to backtrack. Well, now the Church of England is struggling with that question too, announcing it has no official definition of a woman that additional care is needed when trying to answer it.

All very weird. Well, Lord Robert Winston, the world-leading scientist in the field of fertility and reproduction joins me now. Lord Winston, first of all, thank you for coming into the street. We've had some logistical issues and we really appreciate you making the effort to still do the interview, so thank you.

Can you answer for me this very simple question? What is a woman? Of course I can't answer the question anyway. A woman is a female, and the female is defined by the genes she has essentially. She has two X chromosomes if she's human normally, and that would be the definitive. It's probably easier to define a male. A male has specific masculine genes, which make us different from women. And the female position is the default human position.

That is to say, if there's no male genes there, you're born. born as a woman. But I mean, dictionaries just simply say a woman is an adult female and a man is an adult male. Why is the world finding it all so complicated now? It is really quite extraordinary. Basically, we are a cluster. Standing here, I'm a clump of about eight trillion cells at least, each of which of those cells has got my maleness in it. I'm defined genetically. Every single cell has got those male genes. And that would apply to a woman. woman who doesn't have those genes. So that makes the difference.

And we cannot escape the fact that we are genetically determined in this way. Of course, they define in terms of shape, for example, where they have breasts and all the rest of it. But essentially, that's what it amounts to. So when we have, obviously, it's a complicated debate about trans people, for example. And as I've regularly said, I completely support trans people's rights to fairness and equality. I just have an issue where you see women's rights get eroded.

in the stampede for trans rights. And I just don't think you can create a new unfairness and equality, for example, in sport and so on. Do you think that what we're doing as a society is conflating sex and gender, which is a point that J.K. Rowling and others have made strongly? Yes, Piers, of course you're absolutely right, and there's no question that we can change our gender.

We can do it by mutilitating ourselves. We can remove bits of our body and therefore change our shape and so on. But you can't change your sex because that is embedded actually in those genes in every cell in the body. That's the difference. And that really becomes a problem because, of course, occasionally you end up with, let's say, somebody who is born a male but then wants to become a female. So you can have that mutating operation, for example.

But then the question is, should they be allowed to compete in sport? That's a major problem because, of course, they still have certain male characteristics which will likely to be given an edge over other women. So that is where the problem really, I think, lies. And of course, also the issue of just social behaviour in different situations using toilets, using bathrooms, a whole range of issues like this, which understandably worry women. Well, I've got a woman here, Esther, Krakou, and you're listening to Lord Winston.

He's honestly one of the most eminent people who's feeling the world. Are you satisfied with that definition of a woman? I'm more than satisfied. It physically pains me that we have to even define what a woman is because cavemen knew this, but apparently the most educated people in human history don't know it. So, you know, thank God he's here to save the day. Lord Minister, I want to talk to you also about Elon Musk,

who's a fascinating character. But he believes we have a huge population problem in the world that actually we need more people, not fewer people. Do you agree with him? Well, do you know, I think Elon Musk is a wonderful individual in what he does, but actually he's not a biologist. And let's just be very clear. I don't think it matters.

very much because the world's population will not depend on Elon Musk, it will not depend on politicians, it will depend on the environment. And of course, under the right circumstances, the population will certainly expand. If there is, as they're likely to be, starvation in other parts of the world, it will decrease. What I think we are seeing, though, is that rich countries, the population is certainly diminishing, but in poorer countries it isn't because they don't have the ability to control their births, or they don't have, they need more people to start. support them in old age, for example. And that I think is a fundamental issue. But the world could support a lot more people if, in fact, we had better provision for a whole range of things like

food supplies and so on. Are you happy that the political population of this country is about to have one less member in Boris Johnson? Well, I don't understand the man, frankly. I mean, I think he's been unbelievable. It's really difficult to understand why he insists he wasn't going to resign, for example, then of course finally had to. It's very ignominious, and I don't think it's a great representation of our politics. It is so sad because there are so many really good politicians around, but we need people actually who have that sense of actually understanding what the limits are of what seems to be power. I think for some reason he almost became a sort of, he wanted in his mind a kind of dictator. This is an extraordinary thing for somebody who's a conservative,

who actually should be conserving the political arena. Yeah, I completely agree. Of any of the runners and riders left in the leadership race, do any of them excite you? Can you see yourself being happy with any of them as Prime Minister? Well, you know, to tell you the truth, I think this whole election process, which the Conservative Party is going through,

is a pretty rubbish contest. I mean, how you can choose just two people out of a pool of 20 or 30 and then put them in front of another electorate, which also is hand-picked by their membership of that party doesn't actually make complete sense. It isn't, I think, the way a democracy should work. Perhaps this can't get sorted out until finally we have a proper general election. And then we might have some common sense back.

But I think the real... I'm sorry, Lord, we've run out of time. I could talk to you again a lot longer, and I would love too soon if you don't mind. But I'd leave you there. Thank you very much for your time. Esther, thank you. Whatever you're up to, keep it uncensored. Good night.