Piers Morgan Uncensored - Piers Morgan Uncensored: Naftali Bennet and Mosab Hassan Yousef

Episode Date: October 26, 2023

On Piers Morgan Uncensored, Piers is joined by Former Israeli Prime Minister, Naftali Bennett and Mosab Hassan Yousef, the son of the man who created Hamas joins Piers. Watch Piers Morgan Uncensored at 8 pm on TalkTV on Sky 522, Virgin Media 606, Freeview 237 and Freesat 217. Listen on DAB+ and the app.  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Live from New York, this is Pearz Morgan Uncensored. Good evening of New York, and welcome to Pierce Morgan Unsensored. Israeli defence forces have raided Gaza in tanks, edging another step closer to the invasion they promised will come and come hard. Already, Hamas says that 7,000 Palestinians have been killed in Israeli strikes since the terror attacks of October the 7th. Prime Minister Netanyahu says that many terrorists are dead, and this is just the beginning,

but the devastating reality is that countless more innocent people will be dying, and it's only the beginning of that too. 224 Israelis are still held captive by Hamas. Gaza is on the brink of a humanitarian catastrophe. Now fury and grief is rippling across the entire region. President Erdogan of Turkey today accused the West of turning a blind eye to Muslim blood after launching this shocking defense of Hamas. Hamas is not a terrorist organization, but a group of liberators and Mujahideen.

to protect their land and their citizens. No, it is a terrorist organization. That's indisputable, especially now. Well, the stakes here couldn't be higher. I support Israel's mission to eradicate Hamas. There are a bloodthirsty, medieval bunch of terrorists who've done irreparable harm to the Palestinian cause. But Israel's yet to explain how it can take out Hamas

without killing many more innocent people in the process. It's yet to explain what it will do with Gaza if it somehow succeeds in getting rid of Hamas. If anything, much of Gaza is left at all. to explain how it can defend itself without breeding a whole new generation of hatred and resentment, which now threatens stability across the Middle East. There would be ugly scenes on the street to major western cities, including London and New York, with vile anti-Semitism and pro-Hamas protests.

Meanwhile, many Muslims and supporters of Palestine are furious of what they see is a vicious double standard. It's hard to see how this gets any better before it gets a hell of a lot worse. And here in America, yet more tragedy overnight, at least 18 people are dead after a mass shooting. with a history of mental health problems when on the rampage in Maine. When that news broke last night, it struck me there are some uncomfortable parallels with a debate about Israel.

I looked at the photograph of the shooter in open-mouthed revulsion. I saw a killer prowling suburban streets with a weapon of war. But I was reminded that many Americans look at the same photograph and see a weapon that could potentially save their family's lives

in a country that's a wash with guns. One image, one gut-wrenching tragedy, two intractable positions. And as with Israel, the gun debate isn't my fight. I'm just an outsider looking on in horror. And as with Israel, I don't have all the answers. I just know that somebody needs to find some and find them fast.

Well, tonight I'm joined now by the former Prime Minister of Israel, Naftali Bennett. Mr. Bennett, thank you very much indeed for joining me. I want to start by playing a clip of Benjamin Netanyahu, obviously, your successor as Prime Minister. This is what he said about what he sees is the mission involving Hamas. Can any deal be done

that doesn't involve sitting across a table with Hamas? I've met several times with Hamas leadership and I think they are willing to accept my apologies Mr. Bennett we've played the wrong clip there. I think have we got the right clip? Yeah we're going to play the right one my apologies. Hamas militants

are doomed above the earth underground within Gaza and outside of Gaza. We always They already eliminated thousands of terrorists, and this is but the beginning. At the same time, we're getting prepared for the ground invasion. I will not tell you how, when and how much.

Mr. Bennett, first question, I guess, do you think he was right to say that you've eliminated thousands of terrorists? Hamas is claiming, and we have to take their figures at their word, and I'm not sure how credible they are, but they're claiming 7,000 Palestinians have died since October the 7th. But we don't know how many of those are terrorists and how many are completely innocent civilians do it. Well, Israel and the IDF always target the Hamas terrorists. Yes, sometimes the Hamas terrorists use civilians as human shields. But I wouldn't trust Hamas's statements.

As we saw just a few days ago, it was Islamic jihad who shot a rocket at a gas in hospital. Hamas claimed it was Israel. The whole world echoed that for about 24 hours until it turned out that it's a total lie and it indeed was Islamic jihad. So I wouldn't assign too much weight to their words, especially given that they're a group of rapists and murderers, so why would you trust them?

No, no, I completely concur that you don't have to take their figures just because they say these are the figures. But what is clear is a lot of civilians, innocent people, as well as, I presume some terrorists have been killed so far by the Israeli response with the airstrikes. It's clear also that a major ground invasion will massively increase the number of innocent people who die. And I've asked this question to a lot of guests in the last three weeks. I'll ask it to you.

What is a proportionate response? Because people are already saying, look, 1,500 people in Israel were killed. It was barbaric. It was evil. It was an act of horrible terrorism. But if 7,000 people, or several thousand, and wherever the correct number is, already been killed in Palestine, what is the number which becomes unpalatable even for people on the Israeli side?

So it's not about proportionality to what happened. It's about preventing what will happen. What we've realized is that we have an ISIS state on our border. People who will rape, murder, dismember, bodies kill babies. from point blank. So it's not about what happened. It's about the future. How do we protect and defend Israel?

There's only one way, total eradication of Hamas. So when you think about proportionality, it's not about the numbers. It's about how we get them out. But I will say, peers, that IDF is very focused on preventing unnecessary deaths. That's why we went out of our way, according to international law.

And we allowed roughly 800,000 Gazans from northern Gaza to evacuate away from harm's way. So the theater of operations, as has been already made public, is going to be primarily northern Gaza. And we're allowing ample time, giving precaution, warning, bending over backwards to reduce the amount of civilian casualties. But what happens to those 800,000 guys? if all their homes are completely destroyed.

What do they come back to? Do they come back? If they can't come back, where do they go? Where do they live? Look, Israel's responsibility is not to provide housing and high quality of lives to an enemy state. I don't recall America or Britain asking those questions about Japan or Germany during World War II.

Our goal is to minimize civilian casualties, but our main goal is to eradicate, ISIS, Hamas. That's the main goal. Now, in the southern part, which is sort of the safe haven area, or we've created safe haven corridors, we are allowing anyone to provide water, food, and medicine in safe haven corridors. So we're about protecting lives. The fact that thousands of Ghazan and Hamas citizens and terrorists went in and raped and killed Israel, Yes, it has meaningful consequences that they brought about themselves. I also want to point out that contrary to what people think, there were also many

Gazan civilians that entered Israel and just horrible things. For example, we have evidence in videos of Gazan civilians coming out and saying, that girl, we don't want to murder, keep her for rape. I want to rape her. That one we murder, that one we take hostage. So it's, you know, the notion that Hamas is totally divorced from the massive public support of Gazans is untrue. Having said that, we still are going out of our way to allow the citizens away from harm's way. Queen Rania of Jordan was very vocal this week.

Gave a very impassioned interview in which she accused Israel of being an apartheid regime. said that there's always a distinction in the West between Israel's right to self-defense against any right of Palestinians to self-defense, which is always categorized as terrorism. She said that whilst what happened October the 7th was savagely barbaric, why is that terminology never used about

what Israel does to Palestinians? What was your reaction to Queen Rania in that interview? She totally lied and said simply wrong and reprehensible things. Let's undo the, unpack this. She talks about Aparthide. Let's talk about Aparthide. There's about a million and a half Israeli Arabs. They vote in the elections. They have one ballot like I do. There's over a dozen Arab members of Knesset. We have Arab Supreme Court judges. So we have Arabs even serving some of them in the military.

They enjoy full equal rights in Israel. So saying that Israel is an apartheid state simply has nothing to do with the facts. If she wants to bring some facts to substantiate her lies, I challenge her. Bring me facts that show that Israel is a partite. A. B, regarding the barbarism and savagery of Hamas, Israel never, in our 75-year history, did anything near what they did. I want to explain. I today spoke to a family, the Isaac family. The parents and the younger brother were murdered.

They were waiting in the shelter, and the sister, Hadar, was not there. She told me that the dad was holding the shelter handle so the terrorists can't come in. What the terrorists did, they burnt the whole house and suffocated the mom, the dad, and young brother, Sagi. His only comfort was they found Sagi and his mom hugged on the bed in the shelter as they were suffocating. This is something that no decent person would ever do. So shame on Queen Rania. Shame on her. And the fact that she can say these blatant lies is simply deplorable.

Many people in Israel, 80% I think in the latest poll, believe that Benjamin Netanyahu should express some personal responsibility and apology for the catastrophic failure of security and defense on October the 7th. You have now said publicly that you feel responsible for what happened on your watch as Prime Minister, which may have contributed to the failings. Why has Benjamin Netanyahu not done the same? And should he? You'd need to ask him.

I don't want to stand here and criticize the Israel's Prime Minister. I may have profound differences and the thoughts, but I have a habit where I don't criticize Israeli leaders during war and certainly not in international press. But there's no doubt it was a catastrophic failure, and he is the guy at the top. If you had been Prime Minister, which you were several years ago, and this had happened on your watch,

would you have resigned? I don't want to go into that, because, again, it's domestic Israeli politics. I have my set of ethics and standards that I adhere to for all my life. You have to send all these questions to Prime Minister Netanyahu. We've got a war to win. Both President Biden and indeed Queen Rania and many others

are saying that the only way this gets resolved is politically with people getting around a table. I think it's pretty clear that cannot be done as long as Hamas are in charge of Gaza and certainly depends if there's any Hamas left at the end of this ground invasion anyway. You said in June 2013 the following. You said, I have a friend who's got shrapnel in his rear end

and he's been told it could be removed surgically, but it would leave him disabled. So he decided to live with it. There are situations where insisting on perfection can lead to more trouble than it's worth. And your quote, which became known as shrapnel in the butt, quickly became widely known as your view of the Palestinian problem, and you've always been resolutely opposed to a two-state solution. Do you think that kind of rhetoric helps? And do you not think now that the only way out of this, actually,

is to have a two-state solution. I totally disagree. I think what people don't realize, and I think you gave me a good opportunity now, appears to emphasize. We provided the Palestinians with a full-blown Palestinian state in Gaza. In 2005, since I think most of your viewers do not know this,

Israel pulled out of Gaza, pulled out all its soldiers, pulled out all the Israelis living there, thousand Israelis handed the keys to the Palestinian Authority. There was no siege, no blockade, nothing. And they had the opportunity to turn their state into Singapore. And from the very first moment peers, they began shooting rockets, firing rockets at our towns. Since then, we've had tens of thousands of rockets from the very Gaza that we evacuated. So they had the full opportunity and they blew it. We did the same thing in Judean Samaria, aka the West Bank.

During Oslo Accords, we handed, we pulled out of all the major cities, Ramallah, Nablis, Hevron, Janine, gave the keys to the PA and what we got from year 2000 and on was a barrage of suicide attacks in Tel Aviv and in Haifa and Jerusalem. So what I've learned, I'm a very simple guy. at the facts, and by the way, all Israelis, the overwhelming majority of Israelis agree, every time we hand land over to them, give them the responsibility and the keys, they turn it into a terror base against us. So how stupid can we be to try this failed approach for the fourth and fifth time? We need a different approach, and I don't want to govern the Palestinians. I have no desire. Most Israelis do not desire to govern them. So make no mistake.

But certainly we cannot allow them to have any arms, any army, any terror organization. And the first and foremost thing that prevents peace is having Hamas. So there's no way to even imagine peace as long as Hamas exists on this territory. Dufthali Bennett, thank you very much indeed for your time. I appreciate it. Welcome back to Piersborg and our sensitive, live from New York City. Masab Hassan Yusef knows Hamas better than anybody else. He's spent many years in his. Israeli jails because of his links to the terror group, and those links could hardly be more direct.

His father, Sheikh Hassan Yussev, was one of Hamas's founding leaders. Well, Massab ultimately flipped on Hamas while in Israeli custody, he spied for Israel. His intelligence is said to have prevented suicide bombings and other attacks. He's now an American citizen after claiming asylum and a converted Christian, but he's watching events in Gaza with barely concealed fury from his now undisclosed location. And he has a chilling warning for Palestinians in this. we recorded earlier. And I'm joined now by Mossab, Hassan Youssef. Mosab, great to see you. It's an extraordinary story yours. You were the eldest son of a man who was one of the co-founders

of Hamas. And indeed, for your early formative years, you worked alongside your father. So you've got a great insight into Hamas. Tell me this from the start. What were the intended plans for Hamas? when it was founded, when it started, when it developed, what was the plan? You know, since its establishment, Hamas has one goal in mind, which is annihilating the state of Israel. Like the best, it's a compromise that they could do is having a truce for 15 years, a ceasefire, for 15 years as maximum, you know, but with no guarantee how they will act after.

It's absurd. It's not a secret that Hamas wants to destroy the state of Israel. They cannot accept Israel or accept Israel's right to exist. What was the point that you decided to get out of there, to flee this world, this environment you've been brought up in? You know, I have many reasons. Since I was a child, I asked my father many questions about Hamas delusions, about their brutality, about their abuse of power.

And always he justified their position. Then I was imprisoned with Hamas. I spent about 27 months in Israeli prisons where Hamas was torturing their own members, our own people within Israeli prisons. They killed actually and tortured hundreds of prisoners. And this is when I start asking myself the question, what if Hamas become the ruler at some point?

What will they do to our people? And many years later, Hamas became the ruler of Gaza. And I wasn't surprised by their brutality. When you heard what happened on October the 7th, what was your feeling about that? Look, as I told you, I'm not surprised by Hamas brutality, but I was surprised by the scale of their attack, not to this degree, wiping out entire communities,

you know, messing with a nuclear power, the most powerful country in the region, a country with a trauma, great trauma from the past, with a memory of a Holocaust and all the Nazis did in the past century. They opened the gates of hell on the Palestinian people. This is how irresponsible this group people are. You know, that they are willing to actually sacrifice many Palestinian children, the entire Palestinian people, and use them as a fuel to just achieve their ideological agendas, their religious agendas. They are careless. They don't care for the human life. We have to separate between what's so-called Palestinian cause and Hamas cause. Hamas cause is a sick one. It's coming from the pit of hell. And they need to be removed from power.

This is my message. As an ex-Hamas member, as a son of one of Hamas founders, that enough of this. If we don't stop them now, the next war is going to be deadlier. And only God knows what will happen next if Hamas is not finished as soon as possible. How many regular Palestinians, particularly in Gaza, do you think sympathize with Hamas or indeed fully support them? You know, once Hamas is removed from power, we're going to witness people celebrating in Gaza.

I guarantee you that. The people of Gaza are oppressed for so long, and they had to endure siege, they had to endure violence, many wars for the sake of Hamas, lust for power. and for Hamas political ambition. When this comes to an end, I promise you that the Palestinian people, first of all, will thank Israel for what they did. Second, the idea of annihilating the Jews and the state of Israel will be dropped forever. You know, because Hamas is the, you can say, the last experiment of, you know,

of adapting violence trying to annihilate and destroy the state of Israel. This didn't work for Yasser Arafat. It took him 40 years to realize this. And Hamas has been trying for 35 years to destroy Israel. Finally, I hope that they will come to this understanding that Israel is going nowhere. If they insist on annihilating Israel, and of course if Iran keeps on insisting on this goal,

this means the destruction of the entire region. This is the only and certain outcome of this, because Israel is going nowhere. How do we get to peace from here? You know, this time, I'm afraid that war is the only way to peace. Because if Hamas is not removed from power, then they will build more military. They will build longer-range missiles.

And the next attack, the next war, is going to be deadlier. The use of force is the last resort. You can find this in every culture. And unfortunately, now Hamas left Israel and the free world as well with no choice

but to fight them and put an end for their violence. Many civilians are dying, I understand this. Their blood is on the hands of Hamas and Hamas only. You see, it's interesting you say that because a lot of pro-Palestinians who I've had on the show in my last two weeks don't accept that argument. They say the blood of the civilians in Gaza is exclusively on the hands of Israel, and that Israel's waged a repressive occupation for many decades. There's been a prison camp for Gazans for a long, long time, and that that has created the environment through which a terror group like Hamas can thrive.

and indeed win an election, as they did in 2005. Do you buy into any of that? I mean, do you think that Israel has overreacted already to what happened to them? Their argument is what is proportioned when you have a terror attack like that on your people? Look, since my childhood, and I am hearing the stories from pro-Palestine and from those who are using

what's so-called the Palestinian cause, they care the least for the Palestinian children and their future. You know, I am the legitimate representative of the Palestinian children. The child within me speaks. I don't want somebody coming from London or somebody coming from the other side of the world to tell me what is the struggle of the Palestinian children. The Palestinian children, the Palestinian society has been hijacked by these criminals. and anybody who takes their side is participating in their crime.

This is my answer to those people. And for the civilian casualties, et cetera, you know, first of all, Hamas is using, and it's very clearly, it's a fact that Hamas used civilians as human sheep. It's a fact. Then it's a fact that Israel call and warn civilians to evacuate buildings before they strike them. But in the meantime, Hamas put them. roadblocks to stop civilians from evacuating to safe zones. Hamas single misfire killed hundreds of refugees taking shelter at a hospital and they blamed Israel. What are we talking about here? Israel is a democracy. Israel is

accountable. Israel is not thirsty for the Palestinian blood. In the meantime, Israel is capable of wiping out Arab capitals. seconds. Why Israel does not attempt to abuse its power? But why, when the Arabs have just a little bit of power, a couple of missiles, they misuse power by lunching them at civilians and kill them in their living rooms? We have a fundamental problem, and we need to stop blaming Israel. We invited this upon our heads and the rest of the world. If they don't know the reality on the ground, it's better than they shut up. Mossab, your passion and your anger is very palpable here and certainly very different to most of the pro-Palestinian voices I've had.

And, you know, I sense the Palestinian plight of its people is very much in your heart. Do you still have contact with any of your family? This is irrelevant right now. I don't have any contact with my family and I don't care anymore. You know, enough bloodshed and enough involvement from people who don't care. They're just warriors on keyboard, you know, and they're just storming world capitals saying free Palestine, free Palestine. They don't know what the hell Palestine is. I am Palestine.

And I say it's enough of Hamas. It's enough of the corrupt leaderships that they are killing our people. Misleading them to hell is enough of that. We don't want Palestinian state. I don't want Palestinian state. Palestinian children need education. They need security. They need life.

This is what they need. They don't need another corrupt Arab regime. Is it possible to get rid of Hamas in the way that Israel is currently trying to do through airstrike bombardments and it's planned now an imminent ground invasion? Is that the best way to do it? Or is there a danger of radicalizing a lot more young Palestinian? to the Hamas cause in the process. Listen to this.

We are going to remove Hamas from power. Remember my words. And Hamas did not only bring the wrath of Israel over Gaza. Hamas brought the wrath of God. We are going to remove them from power. And we are going to persecute their leaders. And we are going to bring them to justice. And the world will witness their punishment.

And everyone who take their side, today in this state of confusion, thinking that this is a joke, I tell those people that you are going to regret taking the side of Hamas. You are going to regret taking the side of those criminals who are killing the Palestinian people. Mossab, you were born in Ramallah. That's your home. Do you dream of going home one day?

Is that something you still aspire to do? I prefer not to ask, to answer this. question. I understand. Mossab, thank you very much indeed for joining me. It's extraordinary to hear your story. And it's a remarkable pitch that you make to the people of Palestine. And it's one that they will hear and will see their reaction. But I appreciate you joining me. Thank you very much.

Welcome back to Piersburg and Unscett. I'm joined now by my PAC, the founder of the community-based Palestinian-led organization within our lifetime, Nadine Kuzwani, former conservative MP, Louise M. and the broadcaster Emily Austin. All right, let's try and keep things civilised, shall we? Nadine, I guess for you two things. You were born in Jordan. You just told me off there.

You're an American citizen, but very much a Palestinian in your heart, obviously, and your blood. What did you make, first of all, before I get to what Masab Yousev was saying, what did you make of Queen Rania's comments as the Queen of Jordan about all this? You know, I believe that all Arab leaders can take a stronger stance in support of Palestinian liberation, particularly considering that, you know, the entire, the citizens of Jordan, most Jordanians support Palestine. If anything, actually, most people who live in Jordan are Palestinian descendants that have been ethnically cleansed from their land and ended up as refugees in Jordan just like my family did. And so I believe that, you know, Jordan and all these Arab countries should stand unequivocally with the people of Palestine even stronger now. And Mossam, you said there. I mean, it's an extraordinary interview with a guy whose father was a founder of Hamas.

He's absolutely clear that he believes you've got to get rid of Hamas and then there can be peace and there can be what people want there. Do you agree with him? I believe if you want to stop Palestinian resistance, you're going to have to kill every single Palestinian. because regardless of whether... What if you want to stop Hamas, terrorism? I believe any form of resistance Palestinians take is going to be called terrorism. But terrorism isn't resistance

if you actually commit an act of terror. How can Palestinians defend themselves in a way that isn't considered terrorism? Well, I'll give you the difference, which was argued. Actually, Gary Kasparov, the chess legend, today articulated what he saw was the difference. On October the 7th, hundreds of terrorists

invade a country, Israel, and they brutally rape, assault, murder, set on fire, innocent civilians. That is, by any yardstick, an act of appalling terrorism. Israel responds with what they say are targeted airstrikes at places they believe Hamas are hiding in Gaza. That's disputable. I get that. But that's what they say. They are qualitatively different. The death toll may not be different, but the intention of what is going on is different.

And that's exactly what happened in Dariusian in 1948, where people were raped, where villages were pillaged to unfire, bombed at Tantura, where Palestinians had to dig their own graves before they were shot into it. England started, just to finish this point, England orchestrated this genocide. So I'm actually happy that, you know, both of you are here. We resisted, you know, but, you know, but you have a lot of reach there. So we resisted when there was the British occupation. And we will continue to resisted. any occupation that exists in Palestine. All right, let me bring in Emily. I just want to ask you a question. So last we left it, you did refuse to condemn Hamas murdering Israelis on October 7th, and it seems as if nothing has changed.

But I couldn't help what to think. Do you all, do you condemn 9-11? That's such a ridiculous question. It's a yes or no. It's an interrogation. It's a yes or no. It's a simple question. Of course.

Can you stop deflecting questions? She said, of course. I said, of course. What is the difference between Israel's nine? I'm not here to, is she the interviewer or are you? Actually, she's raising, I think the point she's making, and this I'm wrong, is if you condemn that, why weren't you condemn what happened? Because that was Israel's 9-11. I'm not here to answer her questions because, Palestine.

Can you ask her that for me? Let me, well, we did this last week. I will now ask what Emily just asked, because it's actually a valid question. It's Israel's 9-11. If you're happy to publicly condemn 9-11, why are you not happy to condemn Israel's 9-11? In fact, it was a lot worse statistically. 9-11 is Palestine's 24-7. That's completely...

Completely... Have you been bringing Louise here? I found it really shocking. I have to say that your organisation within our lifetime said that it was an act of resistance on October the 7th. I mean, that is the most un-Islamic thing

I've ever heard in my life, tying the hands of little children behind them, covering them in petrol and then burning them alive. Please tell me what is resistance about such inhumane torture of kids? Since you want to bring up Islam, in Islam we believe that

the bloodshed of any innocent person is equal to killing all of humanity. And this is something that, you know, we believe. Unfortunately, Palestinians are put in a situation where they're in an open-air prison. What we were celebrating that day is them breaking out of that open-air prison. I don't understand how the world expects a lot of people. It's one of the reasons why you're not so keen to condemn what Hamas did on October the 7th, because you're fearful of publicly doing that. Are all Palestinians fearful of speaking out against Hamas?

actually, because there's a very reason, very good reason to be fearful. No, there's no reason to be fearful. My life is not, if anything, living in New York City my whole life. There are many Zionist institutions, including the universities that I attended, and campaigns against me for being pro-Palestinian, including putting my face on trucks to drive around Midtown and Times Square for two weeks just this summer, calling me a jihadi. So that's what I'm fearful of. It's not because you're pro-Palestine.

It's because you're pro-murder. There's a big difference. They are all pro-Palestinian liberation from a terrorist group called Hamas. Apparently everyone here, but you. What about from the occupation? I have a question. I have a question. You want to talk about occupation.

You keep asking me questions. I am asking you questions. But you're changing the topic the one time I ask you a question. All right. I'll tell you what, Emily, I'll allow that. You have asked her question. She can ask you one. Go ahead.

I just asked, do you support Palestinian liberation from the siege and blockade and the occupation? That's factually. The occupation. How can I talk to somebody who doesn't even accept basic fact? The United Nations partition plan divided the land. You waged a war. What does that have to do with the fact that there's a 17-year siege and blockade? Emily, what I would say about that, one country, if one country in this case, Israel, is able to turn on and off the tap of water and power and food for the people of Gaza, that is not a healthy situation.

You can call it what you like. You can call it occupation, you can call it repression. You can call it control. But that surely when they talk about freedom for Palestine, What they mean is we're not reliant on Israel giving us water, food, and energy so we can actually exist. Correct. And I'm happy you brought up that point because they want their own territory. They want their own governmental body.

So when we pulled out in 2005, 2006, why couldn't they establish that for themselves? Why are we giving electricity and water to begin with? And my question is, where is the hundreds of millions of dollars of aid being sent directly to Palestine, directly to Gaza? So where is that money going? But it was a rhetorical question. Well, actually, it's a question. It's going towards rockets. $600 a rocket, over $500 million.

Well, I would raise a different point, actually. Why can't you bring electricity to the land? NBC News, more than 80% of Gaza's population live in poverty, according to the U.N., we can all agree that. But Hamas has an investment portfolio of real estate and other assets worth half a billion dollars and an annual military budget of $350 million. Sounds like a lot of electricity. One of the most disgusting things about this.

entire period of time has been watching Hamas leaders sitting in Doha, in Qatar, in their five-star hotels telling poor Palestinian civilians do not evacuate, do not listen to the IDF, do not get out of these areas that are being bombed, and preventing them from leaving. That is a war problem. Are you comfortable with that? No, that's totally untrue. And I'm glad that you brought that up because Naftali also spoke at it earlier when he talked about how they gave the order to evacuate the North.

And we all know that they gave this evacuation order to Gaza on October 13. And what did they do? When people, when they told them there's going to be safe passage on this road for them to evacuate, they bomb that passage. There has been zero proof of that. There has been no word for that other than three. There has not been verified. Now you're a conspiracy theorist as well.

Okay. And there's a lot of things that Zionists are doing, that are killing Palestinians like Biden saying yesterday that the number of Palestinians that have been killed may not be true. when the Palestinian Ministry of Health had to come out and release a PDF, 231 pages of the names and the ID numbers of every single... I think the point he was making is, look, I wouldn't believe the word of a terrorist on anything, right? You don't see them as terrorists, I do. I want to talk about Palestinian lives because you can't be selective.

40% of Hamas rockets backfire and kill innocent civilians. Is that verified? It is verified. And I will provide the source right after the show, quote me on it. It is verified. And secondly, Palestinian outrage about civilians. civilians is very selective when the alleged Israeli army allegedly killed 500 hospital victims. When they found out it was the Islamic jihad, where was the outrage for these children then?

They didn't find out it was Islamic jihad either. No, they did. No, it's not. It is confirmed. So you want to be a fact denier? Do you want to have a mutation? Only. You want to talk about one hospital. How many hospitals, how many health care facilities have been bombed by Israel? I don't need to focus. I don't need to focus on one particular hospital. You're very selective about Palestinian lives. Churches. UN shelters. We know this for a fact. Are you bothered that they lied? Are you bothered? that the Hamas... I'm bothered that your government,

I'm bothered that your government that you used to represent and that the U.S. government... Yes, of course. What kind of question is that? I'm devastated that 7,000 Palestinians are murdered. I'm beyond sad. I'm devastated and I'm devastated that I paid taxes

to the government that is doing that. You can leave. You can go back to Gaza. Can I go to Gaza? Can I go? No, I can't. I was actually denied entry to Palestine for almost 10 years. I was denied entry. When I was 20 years old, because of my pro-poster. Let me just say something. Time out.

I do find these conversations completely gripping, I have to say, because passions are running very high on both sides. I think you both articulate your opinions extremely well. I think they resonate with a lot of people. The last interview that you both conducted with me has had millions of views. This one will do again. We should keep talking, right? One of the things through this is to keep talking. In Northern Ireland, where we had appalling terrorism for a long time, eventually we got to a peace settlement

because people just kept talking and leadership came through that actually wanted peace. Yeah, and journalism is very important when it comes to this and getting the word out there and talking. And unfortunately, we know that the family of the Al Jazeera, Ghaza Bureau Chief Wa'Al-Dah was killed. You know, after they told Qatar to turn down the volume on Al-Jazeera. Ironically, I have to leave it there because I'm going to talk to a very good friend of Evan Gershkovitz, who's, of course, the Wall Street Journal journalist who's been held captive in Russia. So it's not just in this situation.

And happy birthday to Evan. It's his birthday today. And I'll be talking to his good friend after the break. Thank you, all of you for coming in. Thank you so much, Bruce. Welcome back to Unsensit, live from New York City. Wall Street Journal reporter Evan Gershkovich to celebrate his 32nd birthday today behind bars. The American was detained 211 days ago on charges of espionage,

which he, the Wall Street Journal and U.S. government, emphatically deny. President Biden's confirmed the U.S. is in discussions with Russia to secure the release of our wrongfully detained colleague. Well, today on his birthday, I've got some messages, which I'll leave to the end, from some Arsenal legends, because we both support the same football team, and they're two great legends,

and I think he'll enjoy that on his birthday if they ever get to be seen by him. And I'm joined now by Evans Close friend, Jeremy, great to see you. A lot of focus today, because it's Evan's birthday. Do we know how he's doing? Do you have any contact with him? Yeah, first off, Piers. Thank you for the opportunity to share Evan's story.

We're trying to beat the drum as loudly as we can to bring him home. To answer your question specifically, we are able to send letters. He's able to read them and send them back. However, there is an element of broken telephone as they have to be translated to Russian, and they're read by Russian sensors to make sure there's nothing in there. But we do know that he's okay. He's the type of person that if anyone can handle the situation he's in,

he's handling it with a brave face. It's a nightmare situation that he's in. He's being held, obviously, against his will on trumped-up charges espionage. How do you feel the campaign to get him out as going? Look, you know, we trust that the Biden administration, that Congress, that the State Department is doing everything they can to get him home. As his friend, it's not really my bearing to discuss the details and the specifics of the strategy. However, we do want to make much more noise, and we want to make sure that, given everything

that's going on in the world, that this remains a priority. for the federal government, that we consistently keep the focus on Evan and to get him home as quickly as possible. That's our job. What is clear from journalists at the Wall Street Journal, it's a paper that's part of the same company that this show is. What's clear from all the journalists who work with Evan is that he is an outstanding journalist, noted for his diligence, his hard work, his brilliance in the field, his knowledge. The idea that he would be some spy is, frankly, for people who know him, ridiculous. I mean, you've known him better than most.

Yeah. Not only isn't an outstanding journalist, Evan is an outstanding friend. He's an extrovert's extrovert. He has this ability to draw you in when you're talking to him. It's like the rest of the world doesn't matter. And so what makes him such a good friend is what makes him such a good journalist. And so, I believe, uniquely able to tell the Russian story and to communicate that to us at home. You know, I think he is absolutely in prison on these, like you said, trumped up charges. Russia has presented really no evidence for them, and he's still even awaiting trial. So this is just an absolute injustice, and I feel for him every single day. And of course, what he should be doing is his job, which is reporting on Russia,

when they're still engaged in this brutal war in Ukraine. That's what he should be doing, right? He's a great correspondent. And I think that's another tragedy of this is that right at the moment that Russia at the center of his huge news story, he's unable to do his job. I think for him, the toughest part is not that he's in prison. I think it's sitting on the sidelines. Perhaps the biggest story of his life, knowing him, he wants to be in there,

he wants to be in the fire, so to speak. And I feel for him that he doesn't have the availability and option to do that. I know you're not an Arsenal fan, but I know you're an Arsenal fan by proxy because he used to haul you out of bed to watch games at 6 a.m., maybe even earlier sometimes. I'm an Arsenal nutcase. And in fact, I was at the Emirate Stadium in London. Arsenal's ground when they had all the banners for Evan. Yes.

Which was great to see. And I remember tweeting them and feeling very proud of the Arsenal fans for supporting one of our own in this dark moment for him. But we've actually, on his birthday, I've got messages. These names will mean nothing to you. They'll mean an awful lot to Evan. They're from two of the Arsenal Invincibles. It was a year in 2004 that the team went unbeaten.

And it's from Martin Keone, defender, Ray Parlor, midfielder, two great Arsenal legends. This is their messages for Evan. Happy birthday, Evan. I know that times have been difficult for you this season, but let's hope we can get you back in time to see Arsenal pick up to the silverware. At the end of the season. Evan, how are you, mate? I just want to wish you a very happy birthday, mate.

I know you've been struggling recently, but everybody's thinking of you. And hopefully, I'll see you over the Emirates. So you're a big Arsenal fan. So thanks for all the support over the years, mate. if we can hopefully with that Premier League title this year I'll see you at the Emirates and we can have a little bit of a party to celebrate their victory.

All the best count and happy birthday. Well, that'd be great, wouldn't it? To have a party to celebrate Arsenal winning the Premier League and Evan's release and him to be there to watch us do it. Jeremy, great to see you. Thank you very much for coming in. And you can show your support for Evan online

by go to the website free gerskovich.com and on social media by using the hashtags I stand with Evan and free Evan on whatever platforms you use. Happy birthday Evan, keep fighting. We'll get you out of there.