Piers Morgan Uncensored - Piers Morgan Uncensored: Remembering HM Queen Elizabeth II

Episode Date: September 12, 2022

On this extended edition of Piers Morgan: Uncensored, Piers presents a two-hour royal special as we continue to remember and celebrate Queen Elizabeth. Piers speaks to Miranda Schunke, who says the mood of the public is "supportive" for the monarchy at Buckingham Palace. Royal Photographer for The Sun, Arthur Edwards speaks to Piers about The Queen Consort and King Charles III. Three-time Champion Jockey, Frankie Dettori and Queen Elizabeth II's trainer, Nicky Henderson tell Piers Morgan of their happy experiences with the monarch. Piers discusses with former Head of the British Army Lord Dannatt about King Charles III potential involvement in politics. Piers gives his thoughts on people protesting the monarchy during this emotional time. Watch Piers Morgan Uncensored at 8pm on TalkTV on Sky 526, Virgin Media 627, Freeview 237 and Freesat 217. Listen on DAB+ and app.  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Well, good evening. Welcome to an extended to our special edition of Pierce Morgan Unsensit. I am Pierce Morgan with you till 10 o'clock. So here it is then, the third Carolian era. His Majesty King Charles III, the Queen is dead. God save the King. It still feels strange, doesn't it, to say those words, it will take getting used to, let's be honest. But already, I feel like it's less strange than it seemed even two days ago. already the shock and the sadness of the Queen's passing is turning into protests, process and pragmatism. And that, after all, is the British way, isn't it?

The late Queen herself did that better than anybody. We keep calm and we carry on. And we carry out our historic customs with the pageantry pomp and class that is unmatched anywhere else in the world. And today, honestly, I feel proud. I feel proud of the huge numbers of people who've come out to pay their own purpose,

personal tribute to the Queen, all on their own time. I'm proud of the ceremonies and processions that Britain truly does best. I'm proud of the new king, too, smiling through his intense grief. This is a man who lost his father and now his mother, all in the space of, what, 18 months. Yet there he is, smiling with the public, shaking their hands, taking the odd kiss. And he's making powerful speeches. So whatever's going on inside, whatever turmoil he's going through, as a man that loved his mother,

we're seeing a king at the top of his game from day one just as his mother was. When I watched him this morning, talking to MPs and peers and the famous Westminster Hall, I couldn't fall the word he said, just as I couldn't with his national address the other night. That hall, of course, is a place

where Guy Fawkes and Charles I was put on trial into where King George and the Queen Mother lay in state. It's her speeches from everyone from, Chris Jeff to President Reagan and the Pope, a thousand years of history in one room. Where else in the world do you get that? Today felt like a new chapter in that history, in our history, and I'm feeling good about it. A lot of people feared for the future of the monarchy without the late queen. And with good reason, I've had my doubts myself.

But the more I see and hear already from King Charles III, the more reassured I am about the future of our monarchy and about the kind of king he's going to be. And in her death, the Queen seemingly managed to reunite some of the warring factions of the royal family themselves, however temporarily. She's also reminded us, hasn't she, of the values she held and what those values mean to being British, and her son, who's now taken over from her, I think, shares those values.

Not for the first time, the late Queen has made us incredibly proud of this country. Well, joining me now is Talk TV political editor Kate McCann from Westminster, Talk to the correspondent, Miranda Schoenker, who's at Buckingham Palace. Let's go to Miranda first. Miranda, Buckingham Palace can be very emotional tomorrow. The Queen at the moment is in Scotland. That's where her body is currently lying in state, and people are passing by to pay their respects there.

But tomorrow, she'll come back via plane to London to Buckingham Palace for the last time to Buckingham Palace, her great home in the capital city. And I suspect we're going to see quite remarkable scenes there tomorrow. And, of course, very different to the scenes that we saw in the Jubilee celebrations. Yes, indeed. I mean, I've been here every day since Friday, and I've just seen the numbers grow and grow. There is a steady stream of people coming here,

coming along the palace gates and then over to Green Park, where a lot of the floral tributes have now been moved. There is literally tens of thousands of floral bouquets that people are really taking in. some people spending many hours here today. But what I have seen today, what's different is that a people management operation has really swung into action today. There are barriers everywhere. There are high-vis security men everywhere.

They're under strict instruction to not even let people cross the road in certain places. So they're really stepping up the organisation out ahead. And I think it's probably because they want to get very organized ahead of next Monday. We're quite some time away from that yet. but the numbers are only going to grow in the next 24 hours. And obviously, we've seen a lot of focus up in Scotland, understandably today, but that focus is really going to shift to here tomorrow. As we know, the Queen's Coffin will be flown down around 6 o'clock to R.F. Northolt

before being brought here, as you say, to Buckingham Palace to spend the final night in the palace before being moved to Westminster Hall. So it will be a very emotional day. it promises to be a very busy day here again. And I think people are just trying to take in this moment of history. They're looking at the spectacle of this. And people are very emotional and they want it to go successfully and they want it to really go well for not only for the Queen herself,

but also for the family. Yeah, I've got to say, I think that so far this has been an unbelievable display of supreme logistics by the people who've been organising this. And I know they've had plenty of time to prepare. but you can never really prepare for this kind of thing. It's a one-off in our lifetime. I'm just reading here,

the Prince and Princess of Wales will be at Buckingham Palace when the Queen's coffin arise tomorrow. That's just been announced. And the Queen's four children have been performing the traditional vigil, of course, of the princes around the coffin of the late Mother

at St. Giles' Cathedral in Edinburgh. That is now finished. I think they've just concluded that. So this is all going, isn't it? Miranda, in a way that I think it is showing the world actually what this country does best. Nobody does pomp and pageantry, either in good times or bad, in weddings or jubilee celebrations or funerals or burials, whatever it may be.

We do this kind of thing, I think, in a way that no other country can come close to emulating. I mean, absolutely. They've been planning this for years. We know that. But I think the general public feels a great sense of unity, a great sense of identity, and people here want to be together. They are very, very supportive of the monarchy, it seems. As I talk to many people here, they are very much behind this.

They want everything to go successfully, and they want to play their part in it. They certainly are doing so here today, and that is only going to grow in the days ahead, up until the funeral on Monday. But I should say that the Queen's coffin will lie in state for four days and people will be able to start filing past that coffin from Wednesday at 5 o'clock until 6.30 on Monday morning. Yeah, and I think, I mean, thank you, Miranda. I think people should go down there.

This is a piece of history. This is your chance to go and just pay your own little tribute to this remarkable person, this great towering figure in this country's history. You know, I remember the scenes when, actually happened just before I was born, the month before. So Winston Churchill died in 1965 and they were predicting certain numbers of people to turn out.

Apparently it was just off the charts wrong in terms of underestimating how many of the public turned out for Churchill. I think this is going to dwarf anything, including that we've ever seen. I think by the time we get to the state funeral on Monday, it's going to be the greatest event of its kind we've ever seen them as country. Kate McCann, on people of the territories down at Westminster, where all this will happen, of course, on Monday

and where the Queen will be lying in state for four days. Okay, well, see atmosphere like, because when it was the Jubilee celebrations, it was one of joy and celebration and everything else. This is not the kind of shock, raw feeling, is it, on the streets when, like, when Diana died, when it was so shocking because she was so young, and it was a car crash and everything else.

This is a, I think it feels to me watching it all. like a very dignified and respectful collection of people up and down the country, just wanting to pay respects. Yeah, Piers, I think it's exactly that. I was in that session in Westminster Hall that you were talking about this morning when the King was given the address and gave the address to both houses of Parliament. You know, MPs, peers, journalists, there was around 1,500 of us in that hall. And really, it is one of the most historic and special parts of the whole of the Palace of Westminster.

There really is something about it, even when it's completely empty, maybe particularly then, there's something about that room. And the feeling in there today was one of warmth. It felt like there were far fewer people, actually, than there were. And yes, this is a king who is grieving the death of his mother. But he was in reasonably good spirits. He was emotional when God Save the King was sung. He looked like he was fighting back tears at a couple of different moments.

But he also talked about the weight of history on his shoulders. And as he was leaving, he was smart. and thanking people and saying hello to those who were gathered there. And it felt like quite a nice moment. And I think that's going to continue. I am actually standing on parts of the route that people are going to queue up when they go and pay their respects to the Queen who will lie in state in Westminster Hall.

And then we know that there are already some people gathering at the other end of this pathway. They've already started queuing. We expect that queue will go right back across East London. It could be 20 or even 30 hours if people queue for that whole distance. But I get the sense that the way that way will be a really nice atmosphere here. People are excited and you're right, there isn't that outpouring of real raw grief because there is a feeling that the Queen had a great life

and that's something that needs to be celebrated as we move through the next week. Yeah, I completely agree. Well, let's take a little look at a clip actually from Charles's speech, King Charles the third speech to give him his correct title of course now. This is to the MPs and peers this morning. I cannot help but feel the weight of history which surrounds us and which reminds us of the vital parliamentary traditions to which members of both houses dedicate yourselves with such personal commitment for the betterment of us all. She set an example of selfless duty, which, with God's help and your councils, I am resolved faithfully to follow. So, Kay, I think one of the key things, of course, is going to be the relationship between the

new king and our new prime minister. I mean, I keep sort of shaking my head slightly the fact that in one week in the space of four days, 72 hours, actually, under four days. We had a new prime minister and a new monarch. I mean, that's probably never going to happen again in history. So an extraordinary few days in this country's history. And that relationship between Liz Truss and Charles III is going to be crucial, isn't it? Yeah, Pierre, if you're shaking your head, imagine how Liz Truss feels. A few days into that job, she's not even really had her cabinet altogether to talk about spending tens of billions, maybe hundreds of billions of pounds on an energy policy.

And now she is thrust into this very public role alongside a new king, who, as you say, is also trying to adjust to a big change in circumstances. I mean, he, of course, has had far longer to prepare for this, and he really understands the role in a way that Liz Truss perhaps can't. Yes, she's been in cabinet for some time, but she's never been prime minister before. She's never been the one to take those final decisions or the one to walk in front of the camera lenses. She walked behind King Charles today, leaving Westminster Hall. And her face was fixed.

It looked pained. It looked like somebody who was under a huge amount of pressure. And that is hardly surprising because she is. She will be joining him at those ceremonial occasions in Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales over the course of the next couple of days. And that in itself is a huge ask. And then she, of course, has her role in the diplomatic stage. She has all the phone calls. She has to conduct with other prime ministers.

All of that that she has to focus on while still now managing her role in what will be a very public grief, but also trying to guide the country through that. And I think we saw that in the Commons last week with those tributes. And Boris Johnson, of course, making a really heartfelt speech, some suggesting that LIS trust didn't quite rise to that occasion. But as you say, you know, two people taking on huge mantles at a very difficult time for the country. And peers, it'll be fascinating to see how they work together, whether they decide to go their own way and steer their own course, amongst, of course, the conventions that they have to stick to. Yeah, and this extraordinary thing about the dignitaries coming for the state funeral,

there's going to be, we think, 2,000 in total. But they're being limited to one, I think, one official per country with their spouse or other half. And you think about that, it means President Biden, for example, and his wife, the first lady, Jill Biden, will be the only representatives from the United States, apparently, at the funeral, because they're going to have to get everybody else in from every other country,

because the demand to be there from every country in the world is going to be overwhelming. But it's a remarkable thing, and apparently they're not going to be allowed to come in on private jets. They have to come into fixed airports, or they have to find their own way somewhere into the country, won't be allowed to use helicopters into central London.

They've got to use these... cars and buses, I think they've been laid on. It's going to be a very extraordinary spectacle watching the most powerful people in the world, basically having to slum it a bit by comparison to how some of them would normally be treated. But part of the reason for that is exactly what you said before, that there has been a history of underestimating the public appetite

for coming along and paying their respects and getting involved in occasions like this. There have been huge estimates for the number of people who will line this route where I'm currently standing over the course of the next couple of the next couple days. But those who are planning it inside government worry that even those numbers, touching on a million, may well be underestimating things. And I think you're getting a sense of that when you hear them talk about, look, don't bring children to the queue, it'll be really hard

work, you can't sleep, you'll have to keep moving, it could be 20 hours. There's a lot of expectation management going on. And there's a huge policing operation, too. In the time I've been stood here, we've seen a number of police officers walking up and down this route, volunteers and high-vis vests. That's putting pressure actually on a number of other events that would usually be policed, including football matches, which we've seen a number of them cancelled. There'll be police stationed in railway stations and other transport areas, and there is a lot of concern that there could be a potential for protesters to try and get involved, to mark the route, and also the pressure that that will just put on London as a transport hub.

It struggles sometimes at the best of time. Strikes have been called off, but all of those people flocking here, trying to pay their respects, It's not just keeping the city moving, but it's also making sure that people feel that everything has gone off well. This operation has been planned for months and months and months, but you cannot plan for the scale of outpouring of grief that I think we are going to see here. And there is some worry and some tension about that.

Yeah, Kate McCann, thank you very much. I appreciate it. Well, I'm joined now by the Sun's royal photographer Arthur Redwood's political journalist Ava Santina and talk to the presenter, Richard Tice. Arthur, great to have you. I thought of you, actually, very soon after I heard this news, because it hit me hard when I took a phone call from someone, friend of the new king now and his queen consort, who just said the queen has passed

and it was before it had been announced to confirm. And I felt a real, you know, like someone had punched me. And I remember quite quickly thinking, I wonder how you were because you've been such a huge part of covering the lives of the royals and in particular this queen. How did you feel when you heard, How did you hear the news?

Well, I heard the news on the BBC, I think. But I was up at Dunfrey's House with a prince the night before. He had a dinner there. And, you know, it was jovial. It was a great evening. And then the following day, I just saw everybody clear out the hotel quickly. So there was, and it was, then I knew that something had happened. And then, of course, when we got the news, it was, yeah,

I felt for the prince, actually, because, like you were saying, it's difficult for him trying to cope with a loss of his wife. I mean, your mother's your best friend. Right. Okay, who you are in this world, your mother's your best friend. And he just lost his father, not my own. And he just lost his father, but now then he was, then he had to go and put a brave face on everywhere. And I just think he's had a brilliant job.

And that speech he made, and I think he's made a great start. I totally agree. And I think he's been incredibly moved and encouraged by the warmth of the reaction from the public. Because he must have been slightly wondering, once his mother died, this unbelievably popular monarch, the greatest in my view in history, he was a very history, he must have been just wondering, I wonder how the public will react to me. But the answer has been with enormous warmth. And I think that's really helped him through what has been a professional difficult period

where he's got to become this new model, but also personally, when he's grief-stricken, we saw Princess Anne in the car behind the hearse yesterday for a few hours, looking completely anguished. And you understand why she'd lost both her parents. So is King Charles. and yet we're expecting him to just get out there and be the king. I mean, I couldn't even imagine being that strong, actually, in that situation. Well, I mean, he always said, you know, history will judge me,

and now he's come out now as the king. And people are seeing him for the many years, the man I've been working with for the long of. What is he like up? He's a fantastic person. He knows everybody in the world. He knows every prime minister, every head of state. He's so well connected, and he's just traveled the world.

I mean, Raranda in June, with all the heads of government there, and they all paid great homage to him. I remember one person got down on their knees before him when he came in there from Papua New Guinea. And, you know, he is, I just... The reason I still work here is because I work with this man and the queen, the new queen, Camilla. They're just fabulous people.

Really? That's really major carry on. Oh, yeah. I just... I really enjoy it. If I've got a job with, say, the prince, if I had a job with the king, the next job, which he'll be probably on Wednesday when they follow the coffee. I will look to him, but he will be solid. Well, you had an amazing little moment with him after his mother died,

after the Queen passed, and it was captured by a photographer, and you had just a short exchange with him. But tell me what he said to you. Well, he came off the plane, and I was the only photographer. The RIF lady took that. And he just came up to me, and he said, you're okay and I said yes sir I said I'm very sorry about your loss and he said well it had to happen someday I think yeah it had to happen one day he said yeah and I and then he just pat him on the

arm and you okay and he went off I mean Arthur what a moment for you yeah and for him because he recognised that you would probably be feeling very upset about this but for you to have the new king of this country actually inquiring as to how you're feeling and having that exchange with you is a remarkable thing for anybody. Yeah, but on the Wednesday night at the party, we were laughing together, you know, we were joking together. There was like, you know, 24 hours later, there he is, we're sort of, he's coping,

and he's not worried, he's worried about me, and I just, you know, I said, fine. But I was a bit overcome by it. Are you surprised, Arthur, that, I mean, if you go back, it was 25 years last week since Diana's death. Yeah. And if you remember, as I know you do, but if the people watching,

in the aftermath of that, a lot of hostility towards Charles and Camilla, who many people blame for the breakup of the marriage. I never thought it was as straightforward as at all. But here we are now, 25 years later, they'd be married for 17 years. It's extraordinary to me to watch their pathway back to public popularity in the way that it's gone, and very encouraging. Well, just did it for hard work, you know, put their head down and got on with it. Certainly the new queen of it.

I was going to say the Duchess, but Camilla, she just put everything into it. She took only over 200 patronages, and she's just tirelessly as well. But the most important thing is she supports the Prince. Like, for instance, when they got off the plane at North Oak the other day, he came down, and she stayed back in the cabin until he met the station commander, and then she came down. And she's done it all the way. She's never, ever hugged the limelight. In fact, I just, she is just perfect for him.

I think Camilla is correct. Well, the Queen Consul to give her correct title. And in fact, I saw a BBC instruction earlier that you should stop talking about the late Queen as the Queen because actually Camilla is now automatically Queen Consul and that should be a title for her. And these things are important. I've known the Queen Consort a long time

and got to know her quite well actually and sat next to her at dinner parties and things like that. She's an incredibly down to worth DC. woman actually. She never lost a common touch. She never did. No. And she's never, she has that effortless sense of non-entitlement, which the Queen had. In a sense, you never feel like she feels she's entitled to any of this. You know, she loved this man. And if you think about it, in a way, it was, it's been one of

the great love stories. It's endured everything. Absolutely. And there's no doubt to me that Camilla has made him happier than anybody else. Absolutely. And settled and calm and much more calm about approaching things. Yeah. You know, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's a lot of, you know, he's, He had a little bit of a sparky temper, you know. I've not seen that for a long while. No. I mean, not for a long while, and I mean, I've had some serious telling off to him, you know. Well, you have.

You've also had some great moments, Arthur. I want to play you one. This is from 2018, where Charles gives his views on you. He's a very good photographer, and a jolly good bloke, I think, and a very special person. And none of our overseas visits, I can assure that there's not a little bit the same, without Arthur Edwards there. And I get more and more worried

because he's a bit further advanced than we are. And I always worried about the number of cameras and bits of equipment that he carries in boiling hot countries. So anyway, Arthur, I'm so grateful to for all your kindness today. I mean, that's a pretty remarkable. That man's the king of this country now.

Yeah, I know. Paying that tribute to you. Yeah, that chokes me up a bit when he said that, Yeah, because, I mean, I didn't expect that. I made a little speech of welcoming. This was his 70th birthday party we held for him at the Spencer House. And I welcomed him. And I talked about, you know, it wasn't always like this.

There were times when it was a little bit hostile, you know, when Kelvin was the editor. And but, you know, what had happened, I started to see what this man was doing. And I listened to his speeches. I was there when he was begging the president of Brazil to stop ripping up the rainforest. And if he thinks he's got away with it now, I don't think Prince Charles is going to give up. He'll be giving the Prime Minister a little bit of his mind about that, you know, about the environment.

He probably won't be able to say anything publicly, but he certainly won't give up. Richard, what's your take being on, in our words, with you, on the night, of course, and that was very sad evening indeed. As we've moved on now, we're beginning to look ahead, as well as recognise the enormous contribution

this late Queen made. As we look ahead to King Charles III, Are you as encouraged as I am, and I think Arthur is by the start he's made? Completely, Pierce. It's as though he's grown a foot taller in strength, in confidence. And I think he's drawing strength and reassurance from his subjects. And actually, we, his subjects, are also drawing comfort and reassurance from his strength. And for how he's conducting himself for the way that this is just seamlessly transitioning from the,

late Queen from all of her extraordinary achievements. But actually, I really do think this is going to give the whole nation real confidence. I draw huge strength from it, much more than I think any of us could possibly have expected. David, do you see yourself as a subject? Do people your age, even like the idea of being anyone's subject? And is that an issue for the future of the monarchy? I think it's a difficult question at the moment in this 10-day period of mourning because, I mean, look, it's a subject steeped in history, which I think is fascinating.

I think that a lot of people can have massive appreciation for. But, you know, I don't think that we also need to feel as subjects. I think it's perfectly okay to be quite sad about the Queen and to appreciate her legacy, but also say, you know, there's quite a few things around the monarchy that I don't really appreciate. Like what in your case? Well, today, for example, I didn't really appreciate police officers

using the 22 police bill to drag protesters off the street. and say that we weren't allowed to object to the monarch. I mean, I didn't appreciate that. I didn't like what they were saying, but I absolutely defend their right to protest. And there are a body of people in this country who will agree with some of these protests. Take a look at some of the protest today.

Police have they're attacking girls. I'm not going to be disgusting. I've done nothing, right? Now, you see, it's interesting that particular incident because I think it's completely disrespect to have done that anywhere near the Queen's hearse, obviously. However, I also thought it was a big risk by the royal family to let Prince Andrew, after all that's gone on with him in the last year,

walk through the streets in that way. Now, they would say, and I understand this, he was a beloved son of the Queen, and she famously described him to people sometimes, apparently, is her favoured son. I'm not sure that's actually true, but that was what was reported. But it notwithstanding,

that it's only a few months ago that he paid off a woman who accused him of sexually abusing it millions and millions of dollars having said he got a court and clear his name. Is it irrational for some people to think this is completely inappropriate? Well, I mean, he didn't pay. Let's be clear about that. We paid. We're the taxpayer, paid that. And, you know, I would say that it was disrespectful to her and her legacy. And actually, to the people who love the queen for him to walk behind the carriage. I thought that was really disrespectful, actually. I'm sorry. He is a grieving son for his mother.

I think it's mean-spirited. I think it's heartless. Frankly, we are nation are grieving, but they are a family. A family in grief. I think his siblings would have wanted him there. In any other situation, would a family walk through the entire nation to pay their respects? So they don't need to be there for the entire funeral. This is the royal family. This is, you know, and yes.

But that I think is a sign of. the openness and the transparency with which Charles is going to govern in the future. We could talk about the fact that a lot of people have had to cancel the funerals for their own mothers because of the Queen and respect and homage to the Queen. And there are a lot of people at the moment who are actually having to rent coffins because they can't afford to buy them. So if we're going to talk about respect, we should talk about it across the border. We should have a little bit of nuance. Well, I think that actually it's about people's love and appreciation and devotion to our monarch for

to the Queen, the late Queen, for 70 years. What is your view of this Andrew situation? I mean, I didn't like, for example, that he wore his military uniform for the vigil. Apparently it's the only part of the entire week where he'll wear a military uniform. But if you're in one of the regiments that he did represent, I know there's a lot of ill feeling towards him

from members of those regiments that he still seems like he's representing them after what he did. Now, what do you think? Well, look, I was there in Portsworth when he came back after the Falklands War. and we were cheering him. And we laid his life on the line for this country.

I've worked with him for years, and I really like him. And he's made a big mistake in his life, which was giving that interview to Emily MacLess. I don't care what you say. I mean, if Edith said to her, I did do that, I was lonely, it was a mistake, and I apologise. It would have none of this trouble. But the fact that he lied was the mistake.

Well, hang on, Arthur. That may not be the only... Hang on, hang on, I just want to finish this. My point is that may not be the only mistake he made. I mean, let's be clear. He paid a woman to avoid having his supposed day in court. He paid millions of dollars. It may be that he was guilty of what she accused him on.

Otherwise, why are you paying someone millions of dollars? We don't know that, and we're never going to find out now. But it may not have been his only mistake to do that interview. Well, okay, fine. All right, but it was highlighted. He made a mistake in his life. We've all made mistakes in our life. We date to be highlighted.

Every one of us. You, me, the same way. We never ever had to pay 12. We haven't paid millions of dollars for a son. Because you're not a prince in the realm, that's why. And the fact is that, you know, I think he should be walking behind his mother's coughing. I think he should, if he... Of course I do.

I mean, he's grieving. He's broken half. Should people who are angry about it be treated in the way that protest? I don't think people should be allowed to sort of disrupt that comment with a queen. Sorry, I thought you were going to go on the other side of it. No. No, no, no, I, you know, I agree with it. appears you have a right to say it, but there are times when you don't do it.

Well, I think it's wrong. I think it's inappropriate to do it in the way they did it. But I don't think they should start being hauled away, man-handled or arrested, as some of them have been. I mean, I'll be really living in a country where people get arrested for exercising their right to free speech to protest about a monarchy. It's a fine balance judgment. But the reality is, you know, this is a democracy. And in a sense, I think they've got the right to grieve as a family. It's not Prince Andrew's choice. You know, he's got a right to grieve with his family. You can't argue that they fought for our freedom or, you know, our democracy has fought for our freedom.

You can't argue that he fought for our freedom. And then when someone says something, you don't particularly like, arrest them. Okay, listen, we're going to come back to this level in the program. But for now, just stay with me, panel. Next time, the Queen was often at her happiest when she was at the racist. I'll be joined by two people

who rode and trained more than 100 winners for the late Queen, Frankie Dutori and Nikki Heddes. But one of Queen Elizabeth the second's greatest pan, was horses. You took up riding age three and got on the saddle as recently as last year. She also famously loved, of course, horse racing. Joining me now are two people who rode and trained more than 100 winners for the late queen. Frankie Detori who rode more than 50 winners for the queen. And Nikki Henderson, who was the late monarch's racehorse trainer for more than two decades.

Well, thank you both so much for joining me. I know how much both of you meant to Her Majesty, the Lake Queen. Frankie, where were you when you heard that the Queen had died? And how did you feel in that moment? And obviously Thursday I was, sorry, it was, yeah, it was Thursday, there was at Doncaster and I heard the news that Buckingham Palace made a statement and straight away, we knew things were not good. And then in the evening it was announced that she passed away.

And look, I know I made the queen for 30 years. And every time I've seen her, she has this horror of immortality. So when the news came that she passed away, it was a feeling of shock, a feeling of emptiness, not just me, all the people around me, the whole country really was, yeah, I mean, we were not prepared for this. And, you know, I know she was 96 and, you know,

but nobody was expecting it just all of a sudden. And, yeah, it was really, really, really took everybody by surprise. And, you know, it's been now three days. There is a sense of emptiness in the country. A lot of silence. And, yeah, we really tried to cope with it, really. She was, you know, England's mother,

but really we're part of this country and we feel, you know, part of it. And, you know, we are. try to deal with it. Nikki, you were formerly the Queen Mother's trainer and then the Queen inherited her horses. You spent so much time around these two great women. I had the pleasure of meeting both of them

and they were indomitable women in many ways. But their love of horses and horse racing was very real, wasn't it? Well, it was spectacular, I think, because most of all, we all know the work and the duty that the Queen and the Queen mother herself beforehand. had put into the country and horse racing and the horses I think really overall were her one little

downtime hobby pleasure something she really really enjoyed incredibly knowledgeable and it was it was a very big part of her life racing is only a very small community really in the big picture but she was our patron our best friend and racing was very very lucky very, very lucky to have her for all those years, you know, as the biggest supporter and somebody who got so much pleasure out of it. And she just loved the horses. I think the people were part of it as well.

But, you know, just everybody will have very, very happy memories of some great days. What was your greatest... What was your greatest moment with her, Nikki, when you look back? I think really, one just as I say it was an enormous privilege and honour to be there with having had the horses for the Queen Mother. The Queen Mother really only had the jumpers

and the Queen had flat horses. So they sort of had their own separate identities there. When the Queen Mother died, the Queen inherited the horses. She probably inherited me as well. I don't know whether she wanted me, but I was there. And we had some... wonderful days and I think just I think the sort of a lot of the memories would be I think

the breeding side of it is what she really enjoyed she loved the stud the planning of the matings as we would call it which stallions the mares would go to and then the foals being born and the dreams that were then born with them and I think the greatest pleasure is probably actually wandering around Sandringham stud where they all lived and were born and bred and, you know, looking forward to the future, looking at horses that were not going to run for three or four years. We were only doing that earlier in the year. And she was planning for five years' time.

And I think, as frankly, I think we all thought she was immortal, but sadly nobody is. And, you know, therefore we have this enormous void. But this wonderful country that has ceased, served so brilliantly, but now you see how much she meant to them. And I think that has just been, the last few days have been unbelievable. I completely agree. Frankie, you had 50 winners. Can you remember one as being the standout where you had your great moment with Her Majesty? Listen, I know Her Majesty, I knew her for 30 years and up to the last time I met her was absolutely

petrified to meet her about every time met her, she made you feel welcome, and she made you, you know, you had this sense of a great feeling after you met her. And obviously, my biggest win for her when I was in my 20s, I was all a young boy. But the feeling then you got metta, it was unbelievable. And you never knew how to kind of conduct yourself. You didn't know if you wanted to shake her hands or to bow, But she made you feel so comfortable. And it was always, you know, even after 30 years, you always have that beautiful mystery and well-being factor

when you met her. She was a wonderful, wonderful person. And if you lost by a tight head on a red-hot favourite owned by the Queen Frankie, were there threats to take you to the Tower of London? Well, I did actually a few times, but she was always a great lose. Maybe she was burning inside.

but she never showed it. She was always conducted herself in an amazing way. And I'm sure Nick had the few horses the loss for her majesty. And is that right, Nick? Well, she was, as you rightly say, not only she was a very gracious winner. And I think we'd all sort of remember the pictures of when Estimate won the Ascot Gold Cup. I mean, the pure joy that she had out of that. But then the wonderful thing was when things went wrong and they do with horses, they're fickle creatures, and they can't talk. And she understood them. So if things went wrong or horses, well, lots of horses don't win.

So they can't always, we're always trying to get them to win. But she got enormous pleasure out of winning, but she was the most fantastic loser or the bearer of bad news. she understood the horses and the people that were with them. And she just made it very, very easy for us. Well, there's no doubt that you two probably brought more pleasure to her majesty than probably anyone I know, actually, because the things she loved was horse racing and you kept bringing her winners time and again.

So gentlemen, thank you so much for both of you for joining me tonight to pay tribute to Her Majesty. It will have meant a lot to, I'm sure, what you've been saying. But thank you very much. Thank you. Well, coming up, the former Fab Four, as they were called, show the United Front, and they agreed to well wishes. But this is just a temporary truce on a much more deep-rooted rift.

Should Harry and Megan be forgiven for all this happened, or will Harry's forthcoming tell-all book actually make things a hell of a lot worse? We'll talk about that after the break. Well, William, Harry, Kate and Megan came together to view tributes to the Queen on Saturday of Windsor and a show of apparent. unity, but after the way the Sussexes have bad mouthed the monarchy for the last couple of years, should they be forgiven and welcome back? Or will Harry's forthcoming tell-all book actually make things a lot worse? Joining me on discuss, this former Royal Protection Officer Ken Waugh,

family lord barrister, Paula Rhone, Adrian, and the son's royal photographer Arthur Robbers are still with me. Ken, this is a hot one, isn't it? Because my understanding of what actually happened was that Prince William, now the new Prince of Wales, could see that the entire week was going to get taken up the stories of the rift and who was going to sit where at the various ceremonies and so on. And he thought he'd get ahead of it, is my understanding. And he texted Harry and said, we're going to go and walk about. Why don't you come as well? And let's just try and diffuse things. And Harry agreed and then they spent 45 minutes getting ready because they weren't expecting it. And then they all went out together. There was no doubt it's a powerful

image of unity. But I don't think anyone should be too full that this actually, is the end of the problem. And one of the biggest issues is this tell-all book that Harry has written, which is due to be published by Penguin Random House. We don't know when, potentially even in the next couple of months. And if it doesn't, it's really critical of the man who's now king, his father,

and it's critical of the woman who's now queen consul, and it's critical of the heir to the throne, the Prince of Wales, Prince William. This is going to cause incredible new damage. probably worse than anything they've done already. What do you think of this? Well, I agree with what you say. I mean, if what you say were to appear in this book

and if this book were to be published within the next, or the foreseeable future, and if that's what's written, that it is going to cause, you know, extraordinary damage. My personal belief is, I suppose, I think that, you know, this will be put on hold for the immediate future.

Well, I've written a column tonight for the New York Post saying, I think he should cancel it. I think he should rip up the contract and cancel it because he's given a statement today, Harry, a very heartwarming statement about his grandmother, as you would expect. They were close. But you can't get away from the hurt that she must have experienced in the last two years

over all the shenanigans coming out of California. And towards the end of a statement, he says, you know, he now wants to honour his father, King Charles III. How do you honour the new king with a book which he says is going to be searingly honest and accurate? which of course is what we were told the Oprah interview was, which turned out not to be.

I think you could be right. I mean, calling for those to be a good idea. But I think when do you think what the prince, what the king has said now that he, you know, wants Harry, I think, really to be part of this new plan of his, you know, to take the monarchy forward? I mean, he said this some years ago before we had this split. Does Harry want to be part of it?

Or does Meghan in particular actually want to carry on having their royal cake and eat it in California? and to not have to abide by the rules of doing any duty or service or anything like that, but to do exactly what they want, that makes themselves very rich. But one thing is certainly, I mean, look at the pictures of Harry in the last 24 hours. You know, he doesn't look happy in this role. I mean, certainly I think he was pleased to be there, you know, to show respect for his grandmother. And, indeed, with his wife, Mecca.

But the whole point is that somehow there has to be a deal struck. Either we're going to say goodbye forever. And I know that you've said that the title should be taken away as well. I think so. If they're going to, well, Paul, let's bringing you in here, because you're a supporter of them. You know, I just think the two things aren't compatible. You can't keep royal titles and exploit them in the way that they're doing for personal enrichment from the other side of the world. It just doesn't fly it, I don't think for most people in this country.

Interestingly, as I'm talking to you, Oprah Winfrey has said that Queen Elizabeth Second's death could be an opportunity for peacemaking. Speaking at the Toronto Film Festival, she said, well, this is what I think. I think in all families, you know, my father passed recently this summer. When all families come together for a common ceremony, the ritual of burying your dead as an opportunity for peacemaking, and hopefully there will be that. She told that to extra. So obviously there's that opportunity.

And obviously, it was encouraging to see the four of them coming out. And obviously, everybody would like them to all get on and to be promoting the new king and the new monarchy. The problem is, I don't think that this picture is the end of the problem. And I agree with you, actually, on this point, Pears. It's not the complete picture. But what we do have is we have a positive progression. We have a coming together.

Because what, unfortunately, grieving can do is it can also tear you apart. But we haven't seen that. Well, Harry apparently, you don't know quite what to believe in the reports, but Harry reportedly went up to Balmoral with the rest of the family and left in the morning and never spoke to William. which is as the Queen was dying. I find that an extraordinary fact. If that's true.

It shows him the scale of the rift. But in terms of moving forward, I'd actually like to think that King Charles had something to do with this as well. Apparently he didn't. It's been made very clear. It was all William's idea. His speech, I think, really reached out

to many of those watching. And I would be surprised if, therefore, on the sidelines, he didn't play a role. He's their father after all. And undoubtedly he wants them together. You know all these people very well. You know Charles extremely well, William extremely well.

This has been a hell of a mess. And I feel quite angry that this was all what the Queen had to deal with, actually, in the last two years. The last thing she would have wanted, particularly when Philip got ill and then died. I mean, the last thing she wanted was her grandchildren at war and everything else. What do you make of it?

What did you make of the reproachment for this picture of them coming out together? what do you think the answer is going forward? Well, when the prince said he loved heroin and Megan, that shook me as well in his speech. And then when they, well, I mean, when Megan got out the car, I was amazed. But obviously, William has got to sort of do something about it.

And he spoke to his brother and said, look, let's make a combined effort here. But they did it because if they, if Megan had turned up for their funeral on Monday, all the paper has been talking about Megan. And Prince of Wales and Prince of Wales, the king, King doesn't want that. He wants, it's all about the queen. There were no distractions. Whether they'll get back together, I don't know.

I mean, there's a big strong rift between the brothers. Ken, I mean, you were Diana's bodyguard. She would have hated what's happened between her two sons, wouldn't she? Well, yeah, but she would have done. But I've said before, Piers, you know, what this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this one to broker a deal or someone to sort this out. And, you know, that, you know, you know, that, you know, you know, you know, you know, had gone through, you said, her short life, you know, with a great deal of anxiety, a great deal of unhappiness, and would have seen the problems here, and would have seen the long-term

problems here, because the problem is really, you know, nobody really wants, quite frankly. I know your view and a view of many thousands of others, but they need someone to combine this or to mend it, to find out, to find a solution, to put it right. And I think Diana would have been the person to deal with that. I don't think it's that complicated. It is complicated. Well, it's complicated in the sense of, I mean, Paula, when they left the Sussex When they left the royal family in Britain in January 2020, it seems forever ago now.

But when they left, they said that whatever happened, they were going to uphold the values of her majesty, even though if they weren't going to be doing duty on her behalf. I don't think even their wildest supporter could say that their behaviour in the last two years has upheld the values of her majesty of the queen. I don't think that's fair, peers, because what we know about... She represented duty, service, honesty, honesty, is that they've continued to be very dutiful

and to pay service. To who, apart for themselves? To the countless charities who they continue to work with. But they've been enriching themselves to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars. They've been working. That's very different to enrich in.

They have to earn a living. Because if they didn't, they'd be criticised for living off their royal title. Call me cynical. And I do. Yeah. But the work that they do for their charities is designed to reinforce their royal status,

which they then flees to the highest bid. They've been paid a fortune by Netflix. There's this documentary coming out about their love story, which if that contains more damaging allegations about the royal family will be another chip to this new king and the monarchy. Now, you say damaging allegations about the royal family. What we are actually talking about is a son talking about his hurt. No, you're talking about...

We're talking about a daughter-in-law talking about her pain. And it's something that isn't unusual in any family. I'm not sure how painful it is to take your... Prince from his country back to California and make yourself super rich trading off your newly found royal stages. I'm not sure how painful that is. Because it leads to most millions of people in Britain who are currently on the breadline in this cost of living crisis. Her pain, I think, needs to be put into some perspective. Well, the pain she's...

There is a family who are in pain at the moment. The pain she's calls the royal family. And Harry's behaviour is calls the royal family, to me, outweighs their own little local difficulties. That's a suggestion that you can have one without... Well, when you call the Royal Family a bunch of callous racist, but you don't actually produce any evidence to prove it, I have a problem with that. And when you carry on spewing nonsense,

like Megamarker recently just said this interview last week, that she, you know, thank God her children aren't at school in England because they'd have 50 paparazzi there every day. We know that's not going to happen. There are rules to stop that happening. Well, it wouldn't happen with the English press, but we know that it would happen with the international press. Final word. If you think they're going to all get reconciled anytime soon,

Absolutely. Should Harry get rid of his book? No. Really? Wow. Ken? Because I do think a lot has been said about the way that King Charles is going to take this monarchy forward. I think what he will do, he will find a way of reconciling Harry with the rest of the royal family. Quite what that will be, I don't know. Should he pulp the book?

I don't think he should pulp the book at this stage. I think what he should do is actually not do anything with it, but reflect on it and realize, seriously, what damage that might do. Okay. Arthur, last word to you. The book, yeah. And I think, you know, the quicker Harry gets back here and starts supporting his father and his brother, the better, whether she comes with him or not.

I don't think... See, I don't think that's going to happen any time soon. But, you know, that's what I think... Thank you for coming in. I know what this must have meant to you this last few days, so I really appreciate you coming in. Okay, no way. And great that you're carrying on working with our new king

because you'll need you. I'll like to see a familiar place. I'm only 82, Ken. I've got retired yet. Ken, Paula, thank you both very much. Good evening. Well, coming next. Do these scenes of pomp and ceremonies

still have a place in modern Britain? Some think they don't. I'll be debating that with the former head of the British Army Lord Danning. Does, the former Labour MP, Stephen Pound, who doesn't and thinks we should move on. Well, welcome back to our extended Piers Morgan tonight. Most of the nation is in mourning, of course, following the death of Queen Elizabeth II. But for some, scenes of pomp and pageantry no longer have a place in modern Britain. With the funeral of the late Queen, likely to cost millions of pounds, a coronation for the new king expected next year.

Is it time to reconsider this kind of tradition? Well, joining me now as the former head of the British Army Lord Danit, former Labour MP, Stephen Pound. Welcome to both of you. Stephen Pound, you're not a fan of all the pomp and pageantry. I'm a huge fan of it, so why aren't you? I think we're in danger of becoming mawkish about this and overly sentimental. Look, I think...

But the death of the greatest monarch in our history? The Queen would want dignity and sobriety, and she'd actually want something calm and sober and serious. But she did believe in pomp and panchantry. She understood the value of that to the wider world. I think to a point, I think, where are... actually differ with, you know, maybe public opinion, not for the first time, is this sort of dianification of this, you know, these acres and acres of flowers. And it's almost as if people,

it's like an arms race of sentimentality. People felt like the Queen was our kind of national grandmong. The people standing by the side of the road between Belmoral and Dundee, that was respectful and it was dignified. And I think the Queen was wrong with leaving flowers outside gates. But what, you know, it's, when anybody dies, people send flowers. When you've got people weeping outside that. Maybe they're genuinely upset. I should. She said a tear when the queen died. Were you not moved by the death of this unbelievable? I was immensely, immensely moved.

But on the other hand, I don't want to see her legacy subsumed into this sort of national grief where people seem to... But talk specifically about the pomp and pageantry, because to me, you can't have a monarchy in a low-rent way. You either do it properly with all the bells and whistles, and then you get all the tourism it comes in, which pays for it all. Either you do it properly, or there's no point having it. Well, that's not what they say in Sweden.

It's not what they say in the Netherlands. What's the name of the... the monarchs of those two countries? Agnether and the other one. Right. You got half of the right. My point being nobody knows who they are. Yeah, but they're probably doing the Netherlands. Right.

Vilhelmina. One of the Alba or something. Is it Wilhelmina? Well, let me bring in, Lord Delaney. You've been sitting quietly listening to this. I have. Too much mawkishness, too much pomp and pageantry. We shouldn't be going down this road. What do you think? Well, actually, I think we're doing it

just right at the present moment. my wife and I were at Sandringham this morning where there are a lot of flowers but it was a very respectful there wasn't a lot of weeping and gnashing of teas and whatever it was very respectful people were being very quiet they were talking to each other they've told people they'd never met

before and everybody was just making the obvious comments that here was a wonderful queen and the other thing that people are saying is particularly with the proclamations on Saturday and proclamations around the country yesterday just how well His Majesty King Charles is fitting into the road and actually

I think that's really reassuring the country. But also, a lot of the pomp and pageantry is military driven, right? It's the armed forces at their best. This shows off, I think, a large part of what the monarch is, are the commander-in-chief of the armed forces. That's why I like it as well. It's about the defence of the realm. It's about the country.

It matters to me. Well, it's part of the fabric of our nation. I mean, we do these things. We actually do them very well. We do them, I think it's fair to say, probably better than anybody else. And your earlier point, just to play it back to you, because we do it so well, it does attract North Florida people to come, and it actually is very good for tourism. It is.

That isn't a driver in its own right, but it's a very good spin-off and very useful. Stephen Pound, I mean, the point is, we can go the American way, we can become a republic, and you could have presidents who last four or eight years. None of them have come anywhere near the popularity of this queen. No, no, I couldn't agree more. The interesting thing is, I mean, I argue... You don't want to abolish the monarchy? No, I think in the long term, the monarchy will wither away as we know it in the present time. We're seeing no sign of this with the scenes in the last few days.

I think the idea of a constitutional monarchy where every member of Parliament has to swear an oath of allegiance to a majesty or his majesty, their heirs and successors. Everything we do is done in the king or the queen's name. I cannot see that surviving for much longer. But like Alba, you know, the Prime Minister of Australia and like Jacinda Arden, I think this is not the time to be talking about it. This is not the time to consider the future of the monarchy. This is the time to... Well, actually, I think it is. a time to consider the future of the monarchy, because we now have a new monarch, and what's a better time?

I mean, it seems to be the perfect time. Let's let the dust settle. And let's see how, I mean, at the moment, we have a monarch in King Charles and a man who has actually, in some ways, broken the mold of being the head of, of, being the prince of wealth. He's got involved. We all know about the spider letters and the bits and pieces. And we always had an ademate. I mean, we paid for someone to squeeze his toothpaste and he stayed out of politics. He's crossed that light.

Whether he will now continue. What was he wrong about? Yeah. I think to actually involve myself in town planning. What was he, must he been wrong about out of interest? Well, I mean, I have to say his development in Cornwall, you know, the idea of this particular, his idea of creating these sort of little poundvills over there they call them in Cornwall. I think he got it wrong because he had this sort of quinlentery idea. But on big picture things like climate change and stuff, he's been proven right, isn't it?

I think he was right to, you know, as... Right to raise the alarm a lot earlier than many politicians. Prince Philip did it even sooner than him. Prince Philip was there absolutely soon. I think they're right to do this. He may be challenged to do it as a monarch, but he's Prince of Wales, I thought he was right. I think that's the point.

I think actually he's already signalled that actually King Charles is going to behave differently. He has said that. And I think that's really, really important. And to be honest, he spent the last 50 years, 70 years, waiting to be king. And I think it's been very interesting

that he has got himself involved. You know, the spidery handwriting letters to ministers, asking questions. I've read a few of those letters. I thought he was completely entitled to do that. And actually it showed he was diligent and he cared. And what he was really doing was challenging ministers to make right policy decisions.

But he's already signalled that actually that way of behaviour he cannot continue with. It'll be difficult for him. And I think the only chance he will get will be on the weekly audience for the Prime Minister. And it'll be interesting to be a fly on the wall. It will. But we're never going to know. What are we aren't?

And that's the one leak, conversation that goes on in the United Kingdom on a weekly basis. And I reckon there'll be very interesting conversation. So do I. But we're never going to find out. He won't hold back. No, but we're never going to find out if he wielded influence or not. In a way you do because of soft power of being the monarch. Let me ask you

or don't know what I've got you. This is obviously the biggest story in this country. But what's happening in Ukraine in the last 48 hours is no less important. There seems to have been a massive shift in what's going on there where the Russians seem to be

dominant, but now they seem to be in retreat, in large parts of the Dombas region. What do you make of this? And is it possible that the Ukrainians could actually win this war now? Well, there's two questions. Let's take the first one first. It's fascinating what is happening. What the Ukrainians have managed to do is pull off what I would call an operational level degree of surprise. They've talked for the last four, five or six weeks about a counter-offensive in the south and the Kersom, sort of north of Crimea area, such that the Russians brought up. some of their better troops from the Dombas to reinforce around Kerson.

That having happened, the Ukrainians with their heavy equipment provided by the West, the better trained soldiers have attacked vigorously around Kharkiv in the north, and they've broken through and they've broken so far through that they've caused mayhem in the Russian rear areas. So what will now happen?

Well... Is the worry that when he's... As people have always thought, if Putin gets cornered, he's so invested in this war now that if he gets cornered, that he might do something like launch a tactical nuclear strike? We may have thought he was crazy to attack in the first place in February. Actually, I don't think that's right.

I think he does retain a sufficient degree of rationality to know that the balance of mutual destruction, which was what held the peace, as it were, during the Cold War, is still there. Even if he thinks if he loses the war, he may not survive. He's got other options. The other option that he's got is to stop calling it as a special military operation to actually declare war that changes the law in Russia.

He can then bring in conscription. He can actually mobilize the rest of Russia's military. So he either goes all in or he has to basically fail. He's got to go all in or he probably will fail. I mean, a month ago, I couldn't see how we could be

in the situation that we are now. The world might say the Russians are going to leave Ukraine. They would never go voluntarily. I thought the Ukrainians could never kick them out. And the West would never put a sort of Kuwait-style operation together to throw them out. But what we're seeing, now that America is engaged

with the NATO nations, particularly the Americans, they're barreling so much equipment. They are. Really good high-tech. And credit to President Biden, actually. And when Uncle Sam gets himself engaged, he makes a difference. And that's what we're seeing, actually,

with the Ukrainians and British support as well. It is making a difference. My worry, just at the present moment, is the Ukrainians in their enthusiasm, will overreach themselves and take a bloody nose. So I think this operation will develop a sense. certain distance and then it will stop. There'll be a certain amount more maneuver before winter comes. It'll probably go into the deep freeze over winter and then we'll see where we are in the

You know what? I was in Ukraine a few weeks ago and I don't think I've ever met a more determined people and the one common refrain from all of them, whether it was the mayor of Kiev, the Taliyqlitschko, the former heavyweight champion, whether it was President Zelensky or whether it's just random people are met in the street. We're not giving the Russians an inch of our territory and we will die to make sure. we don't. And that was to a man and woman of the people I met. They are extraordinary people. And we saw, because they've had this reverse on the battlefield, huge attack on the power station, putting that Kharkiv area into darkness. That will just actually reinforce

the determination of the Ukrainians. You couldn't bomb London in 1940 into submission. We couldn't actually bomb... They remind me a lot of the spirit we had here. Lordana, great to see. Thank you very much. Do you think there's a Vietnam analogy there? No, I don't actually. I actually think the Ukrainians are going to prevail eventually. in this. Well, the Vietnamese did. And I think Putin's, I think he's made a massive mistake. But you can have a massively technologically advanced nation like the United States or Russia,

thinking that they can actually invade or occupy and defeat a force. And they can't. The Americans didn't win. Oh, so you mean, in that sense, yeah. I mean, there is apparently, I don't even go on as long at my point. Yeah, oh, no. That was a long, drawn out thing. I don't think it will be that way.

Oh, no, no. I think the American support in particular is so big now. They're getting the equipment that Zelensky get one. And even the Germans are coming on. Of course, the long game is what Putin is hoping for. Of course. But actually the enthusiasm of the European countries wait. It looks to me like it might not be the long game he wants.

Thank you both very much indeed. Good to see you both. Well, the pomp and pageantry that Mr. Powell wants to get rid of was on display today during King Charles' speech to Parliament, Westerns to Hall. And it was magnificent. Let's take a look. I cannot help but feel the weight of history which surrounds us and which reminds us of the vital parliamentary traditions, to which members of both houses dedicate yourselves. with such personal commitment for the betterment of us all.

She set an example of selfless duty, which, with God's help and your counsels, I am resolved faithfully to follow it. But we're witnessing the very best of British right now, one of the most difficult times this country has had to go through, which is the death of our great and beloved monarch, the greatest monarch of all time. sadness, ceremony and some solemn celebrations too.

These, of course, are all part of the customs and traditions that underpin the continuity of the monarchy as an institution. They're intended to show through custom and class that life goes on, that the United Kingdom and its monarchy goes on. I think most of us feel very proud about that. I think most people will move by the late Queen's death and also believe that most people are behind our new King Charles.

But there's an important point here. That shouldn't be compulsory. We don't live in North Korea. Now, we've seen protesters arrested for booing at proclamations for the new king, for holding up placards, saying they don't want a new king or a monarchy. We've seen another protestor dragged away by police and arrested today for heckling Prince Andrew. Now, you might share my view, but it's completely inappropriate for them to be doing this when the Queen's Hearst is there.

You might find it wrong and objectionable that they want to get rid of the monarchy, and don't agree with the principle. But, and it's an important but, in this country, you have the right to. to disagree, to have your opinion, and to protest loudly if you see fit. And there are legitimate discussions to be had now about the future of the monarchy under King Charles III and the future of the Commonwealth. There will be debates, vigorous debates, about how a monarchy fits in at all with a vigorous thriving new democracy which champions free speech. But a constitutional monarchy has to make the case of itself time and time again.

They rule by the consent of the people. That's how this works. That's part of why King's Charles will visit every country in the UK this week to make that case. Silencing dissent like this is a bit disturbing. It feels over the top. It's not British. Well, joining me now as former Vogue editor, Alexander Shulman, talk to the TV contributor, Esther Crackardt, documentary maker John Brickutt, who has worked with King Charles for 15 years,

whose documentary, Born to Be King, is on IPlayer. Now, welcome to all of you. And from Westminster still, we have Fox News correspondent Alex Hogan, who I'll come to in a moment. Alexandra, great to see you all, first of all. The right to protest. I'm a staunch monarchist. I believe in the royal family.

I support the king, and I feel very upset about what's happened in the last few days. But when I see people protesting about the monarchy, I think that is part of a democracy. What do you think? Well, I think we live in a time when there are so many questions about free speech, don't we? I mean, I hate the way that we can't,

everybody feels worried about what they say, whether they write something, whether they publish something, whether they say something. And if you feel that way, you have to also say, well, it's okay for people to make vile comments as the Queen's coffin is in front of them. So I agree with you. Yeah, I mean, look, nobody likes to see.

I don't like to see it. I say nobody, some people don't care. I don't like to see it, and it is disrespectful. But to see people being arrested for protesting about the monarchy, I don't like that. It's completely shambolic, and I think it's very anti-British. But I have been vocal, and I said, you know, people that haven't even waited for it to be 24 hours before

effectively trolling the Queen's death. It's tacky and it's disrespectful, but I absolutely will fight for their right to say that. And I think that more harm is being done by silencing people, regardless of what their opinions are, than actually letting them speak and, you know, demonstrating our democracy at its finest. John, you made a lot of films with them Prince of Wales,

now the king. First of all, how did you feel when you heard this seismic news that our monarch was changing and this man that you know so well was now our king? Well, I suppose I was aware of the plans that have been laid over a long time and I was very interested to see how it was all going to pan out. But obviously, there's already been a change in him. I mean, he's the same man, but he's got, you really feel that he's, he's sort of, he's grappled with his destiny and he's accepted it and he's doing it now, something he's been waiting to do, not because he wants to get on with it,

but because he's expecting it would come. You know him better than many people. What's he like? He's a very gracious man, I would say, to start with. I think he's also a very emotional man. And that's not something one associates with the royal family normally. I think we've seen that since he became king.

his broadcast last Friday was really quite emotional and I think that's going to be a hallmark of his reign that I don't mean sort of bursting into tears all the time but there's a very deep feeling there and I've actually been with him

to the opera and we went to see La Bohem at Covent Garden and in the last act tears were running down his face really? Yes it was quite extraordinary it doesn't surprise me He strikes me as an emotional man.

I look at Alex Hogan, Fox News correspondent, who's over at Buckingham Palace. Alex, tell me about America's reaction to this. I've been doing a lot of interviews for various Fox shows. I'm actually going to be co-anchoring the funeral for Fox, which I'm very honored to be doing. It seems to me that America is feeling the loss of this queen, many Americans, almost as much as we are. That's true. There's this immense feeling of loss, not only here, UK, in the U.S. And really around the world, again, this was an influential figure that was known

pretty much everywhere across the globe. And there is this deep sense of tragedy, not only watching a woman people grew up and knew, but also seeing the loss for the family members today in that really emotional video where we saw the children of the queen standing around her casket in St. Giles and how emotionally tolling that was for them and to be able to witness that and see some of the children. the emotion just like we were talking about. It is a moment that people around the world are watching just because of the magnitude and the notoriety of this woman.

All of the things she was able to do in 70 years on the throne in 96 years of life. It is a moment that people for the next week continually will watch because it does matter to them. It hits home with them. They've spent years watching this woman and to see her live a life so prominently and to be even meeting with the prime minister in her last days. It's just remarkable to see. And I think that's why this story touches people really across the globe.

Yeah. And, you know, as I'm talking to you, it's been revealed that President Biden will have dispensation to take his armored beast car to Westminster Abbey for the funeral, unlike most other world leaders. We're going to have to share a bus. It's going to be interesting to see how people arrive. Everyone was told of these diplomats. these foreign dignitaries not to travel by private jet or private helicopter and to take these

shared buses. Of course, there is a massive security concern that these foreign dignitaries will need to grapple with just looking at the city of London alone with the influx of people that have come in from around the country and around the world to pay tribute to the queen. It's going to be an immense security concern for these diplomats who will be arriving here, not only for their own safety, but also for the safety of the people who, are here in London, but we do not expect President Biden to be traveling on that bus. And of course, we do see Air Force One on these types of trips. It'll be interesting to see how many other foreign dignitaries do abide by this request to take the share of bus.

It certainly will. I think a lot of egos will be at play. Listen, thank you very much, Alex. I really appreciate you joining me. Thank you. Alexandra, you know King Charles and his Queen Consort Camilla quite well through your previous incarnation as former editor of Vogue. What are they like? When you've dealt with them, describe them to me. Well, the Queen Consort, I have huge admiration for.

I know you know her very well. And she's got this fantastic dry sense of humour and this ability to make you feel like she really engages with you and she's no fuss. And I think it's really interesting that dynamic because they've been together on and off for years. And King Charles is a very different type of man. You know, he's been brought up always in the sort of epicenter of privilege

and this very rarefied life. And I think what's wonderful is the way that she's been able to make him feel relaxed and supported in a way that I honestly think that were she not around, he would be finding this much more challenging. I completely agree. I mean, I described Camilla earlier as, you know, she is to Prince, well, King Charles, as he knows.

It takes so much getting used to, right? I mean, we keep slipping up, but to King Charles, what Prince Philip was to the Queen. You know, she is the rock in his life and always really has been. And they've endured a lot in all their time together. But what's interesting is she's never given really a proper interview about anything to do with her own life. She's done particular things for book clubs or whatever,

but never about what she's been through. She's never complained. She's never explained. And in that sense, she's followed the path of the Queen and the Queen Mother who have always believed you don't need to do all that kind of thing, that you just need to just do your duty. And the public eventually, if you do it well, and you show that you love your country and the people, they'll come round to you.

Yeah, I think it's quite a kind of British thing that, though, isn't it? You know, sort of the world in a way that Camilla comes from is quite a never complain, never explain world. And you don't hang out your dirty washing in public and you don't moan about people and you might do it around the dinner table but you don't bang on to everyone else about it. And I think so that's so genuine.

Esther, look, I have known them a long time, but I'm 57. You're a lot younger than me. As a young person, what do you want to see from this new king? He's in his 70s, but by comparison to his mother, he's a younger monarch, what do you want to do? to see him do? I think I want to just see him be unapologetically proud to be British, which sounds weird, right, because you wouldn't hear this from a young person.

But I do think that my generation really needs to see that kind of example because we don't really have that. We're kind of growing up, most Republicans in this country are actually young. Most people that don't see the value in the monarchy are actually young. Most people that, you know, whinge about the Commonwealth without actually understanding the Commonwealth, the people in the Commonwealth are actually very young. So I think just being an example and holding the foot is all really, I can expect from him because this is a, you know, a very old institution.

It's obviously given us so much. But I think young people really need to see the value of that for it to continue. And I think that's what you can do. John Bricka, is that enough? Or is he going to be determined to make his mark by not just being the continuity monarch? Oh, I don't. He's going to be both the same and different. I'm sure the two things are going to happen at the same time.

A classic monarch position, if I may say so. But I think the thing is, I'm not sure that I agree with you. because I think he has a great, there's a great pull for a lot of young people with him. I think if it was another 73-year-old, it might be a problem. But really because of the Prince's trust, I think there are a lot of young people who really identify with him. And it's been striking to see the crowds. How many young people are out there wanting to shake his hand? Well, the best thing he's doing, I can tell you, and I've said this to his people,

the more he's out engaging with the people of all ages and particularly young people, the more you can feel the warmth from those people, they're buying back in, maybe against what they thought they would do, back into this whole construct of a monarchy. And two women kissing him. Yeah.

We had one on his show. Then kiss me. She had two kings on the same day. Boom, boom. It's very interesting, though. I think that kind of interaction is key. And he's very good at it. Yeah.

Because I filmed him in Durham about three years ago, and he was up there. It was a beautiful day. And there were a whole lot of students, university students, who were there lining along the barriers. And he stopped. And the thing is,

when he shakes hands with people, he listens to what they've got to say. And he finds a connection. He was saying, how many essays do you write a week? And they said, oh, one. He said, well, I had three when I was at Cambridge. You have it so easy.

And then he met some... Well, the last time I saw him was at IT. about four years ago. He came around the ITV buildings with his queen consort, as she is now. And he looked at me, he met Susanna Reid. And then he turned to me and he went, good God, are you still around? And I thought it was very funny. And then we had a very funny chat about Donald Trump, who I just interviewed. He'd just become, it was the first interview he'd given, as it's becoming president to British media. And he was, by the way, the president sends his regards to say. Really? And he's got quite intrigued by it. And then later I sat next to Camilla at a dinner,

just after they've been with Trump. And that was a very interesting conversation. I won't reveal it. But what I got the sense was that they are, they're able to deal like the Queen. They're able to deal with all types of people. They know that part of the job is you have to meet a lot of controversial people.

And the job of a monarch is actually not to show which ones you like and don't like. And I think Charles is as good of that as his mother was. He's had a lot of time to practice. A lot of time to practice. The greatest apprentice in history. Thank you all very much. to my pack here.

We're coming up next. King Charles hasn't been shy when voicing political matters. Reportedly, Brandon, the government's policy to send migrants to Rwanda, for example, as appalling. But will he have to now rein it in as monarch? He says he will, but will he?

Labor's Jonathan Ashworth. joins me next. Well, back in June, Clarence House was forced to release a statement, reiterating that King Charles would be politically neutral once he inherited the throne. It came after the then-Prince branded the government's controversial policy

to send migrants to Rwanda as appalling. We're joining me now, Shadow Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, and Privy Council Member Jonathan Ashwa. Thank you. Thank you on your first Labour Minister, Shadow Minister, to come on. Thank you very much. I'm really pleased to be here. And I always enjoy coming on your show's peers,

and it's great that you're back on our TV screens. Thank you very much. Thank you. We'll use it as a promo. It'll probably get you fired. But good to see you. You were there for this accession ceremony on Saturday. Yeah.

As a Privy Councilman, what was that like? Oh, I mean, it was extraordinary. And the reason I was there is because I'm a procession of, That means as an MP I'm allowed to be called, I am called the right honourable. And it was 200 of us in this room. It was an extraordinary moment. It was real history. It was real history in the making.

Of course, all of us in there had not been at an Excession Council before. So we're all slightly nervous. None of us want to get it wrong. We don't want to bow at the right moments and say the right thing, of course. And of course, and in fairness, I'm of a different political party to the government, but I thought, Penny Morden who oversaw proceedings as the Lord President. I thought she was superb. And then we were ushered into the throne room

where we heard King Charles give his address to hers. And it was quite a moving moment, I thought. Yes. I mean, I thought his speech this morning to all the MPs and peers was really spot on again. In fact, every move he's made so far, despite what must be overwhelming grief he's feeling for the loss of his mother coming so soon after his father, died. I just think it's incredibly impressive what he's been doing so far. Yeah, I think today,

strangely enough, was the moment it really did hit me the weight of history on his shoulders as we were sat in that Westminster Hall, which is the oldest part of the... He looked quite emotional when he all sang God Save the King. I was watching him. I, luckily for me, I just happened to get a seat which was closer to the front and I had a very good view of him. I thought he looked very emotional. I thought he could, I could see him if you're like, I thought, him processing the magnitude of the moment. And of course, as well as these great constitutional duties that are placed upon him, and he is carrying them out superbly with a plon,

he's also grieving as well because he's lost his mother who he's very close to. Look, we're living in a dramatic cost of living crisis, which has been slightly overshadowed, of course, by what's happening. But it's real and it's ongoing for people. There will be a number of Labour Party members. and Labour Party voters who will be instinctively thinking all this pomp and pageantry is fine,

but what about my ability to pay for my kids' school meals? What do you say as a Labour shadow minister about this? We had a debate just now about whether we should still be doing all this pomp and pageantry. What do you feel about that?

I think what's important is that we remember that the constitutional settlement we have, a constitutional monarch, actually underpins and secure, our democracy. And it's only a few days more, if you like, when Parliament will resume. And the great issues that are affecting, of state, the great issues which are impacting on people across the country will be debated again robustly and democratically in Parliament. And that democracy is safeguarded by our constitution.

You're a sports fan. Did you agree with football being cancelled? I understood why it was cancelled. Was it, with hindsight, a mistake, though? Well, I understood why it was cancelled. The way cricket went about it seemed to be far better to me. Well, I think football's going to be back on this next weekend, I think. I think some games, not all. Yeah. No, I understood why it was cancelled.

Did you? You didn't think the Pax Stadium singing the national anthem? Would it have been a good mark of respect? Minutes silence at these grounds? Well, I think we'll certainly see that when the games resume, hopefully this weekend. But look, different people and different organisations will want to pay their tributes in their own ways. I certainly know as a Lester MP where our city has come together. And we are, as you know, an incredibly diverse city.

You're a Leicester fan, right? Yeah, but our mosque's... I mean, the way you're playing, it must be a relief not to be having any games at all. I don't only intrude at all, but... Let's see how long run in Russia's. Yeah, exactly. But, you know, it's just about the point,

the city like Leicester, tremendously diverse. Mosques, temples, Jane temples, Sikhs, cich, synagogues, churches, all come together, all been expressing their thanks to her late majesty. Should the king now, Charles III. He was notorious as Prince of Wales for firing off his spidery letters to ministers about all sorts of issues. He said he won't do that kind of thing anymore. Is it really important,

do you think, that the monarch, whoever it is, but particularly one who's been so vocal politically before in terms of writing to government ministers directly, is it right that he should now be completely impartial and stop that kind of thing? Well, he will obviously have no role in party politics, quite rightly. But I think when he was the Prince of Wales, he argued, or perhaps people on his behalf argued, that he's going around the country, he's listening to people all the time, he does a lot of charity work, and it's only right that he passes on to ministers what he picks up and what he hears, so ministers can reflect on that and improve the decisions that they are making. And I am sure, as King, as Monarch, he will not interfere politically,

quite rightly. But I am sure as he goes around the country and meets people, he will want to pass on what he's hearing. Final question. Not a protest, not a lot, a few people protesting. Some have been manhandled, some have been arrested. Do you agree with that? Or do you think people should be entitled if they want to say they don't believe in a monarchy? I mean, people should be able to say that. Of course they should. We're a democracy. And these protests are very small. I've not, because I've been doing so much today in my parliamentary duties, I've not seen the clips and so on on Twitter. Look, I mean, people should be able to protest. They should be able to have their say. I think it's pretty clear from the huge outpouring of grief and love and admiration

that the vast majority want to maintain the monarchy. But obviously, one or two people are always going to protest. That's life, that's democracy. It is. That's why you used to come on Good Morning Britain and let me shout at you. And I look forward to doing that again when this is all over. Jonathan Ashworth, so come back again, Sue. Very good to see you.

Thank you very much for coming in. Well, coming up next to some protesters are arrested for interrupting the proclamation of the King Charles. Is it distasteful, inappropriate, arrestable or free speech? One of those protesters who shouted who elected him and was arrested, joins me next. A growing number of anti-monarchy protesters have been arrested in the proclamation of King Charles III. Today, one protest was thrown to the ground and arrested after heckling Prince Andrew. He's arresting him for a breach of the peace, a step too far, completely inappropriate. We've been now as Simon Hill, who was arrested yesterday after he called out who elected him.

when he passed a ceremony in Oxford, marking the new monarchs accession. Legal journalist Ava Santina, I talked to be contributor, Esther Cracko, join me again. Simon Hill, on the face of it, this seems absurd. You walked past a proclamation being read out and shouted, who elected him? That's it. That was your offence. I shouted out who elected him. I wasn't even near the front of the proclamation. I wasn't planning to protest.

I didn't have a placard. I'm all the way home from church. What made you shout out? Well, the proclamation began with expression of grief for the previous monarch, and of course I would never interrupt an expression of grief. But when they announced Charles to be our only rightful lord and king, that isn't something I felt I should accept in the 21st century. I appreciate other people who have different views.

So I called out who elected him. A couple of people near me told me to shut up. Fair enough, that's their phrase. I responded by expressing why I thought we shouldn't have a head of state. without being consulted. And then suddenly there were these three security guards grabbing me, pushing me backwards. Then the police took hold of me, led me away,

arrested me, handcuffed me, apparently for expressing an opinion. And, you know, other people have different opinions. I strongly support their right to free speech. There's something very worrying if you can't express a different opinion. Yeah, I mean, I don't agree with your opinion at all, but I certainly don't understand why you've been arrested

in the democratic society for shouting out who elected him. What's happened since? Well, when they arrested me, to begin with, there was a lot of confusion as to the grounds for the arrest. They kept contradicting each other about why I've been arrested when I tried to ask them. Eventually, they de-arrested me.

They asked me to do an interview. What does that mean? They took away the arrest? Well, it was unclear to me, because at first they said I'd be de-arrested if I gave an interview. I said I wanted a lawyer present if I was to be interviewed. And then they said I'd be de-arrested and asked back for an interview, and I could still be charged, and then they released me.

And at that point, they told me I'd been arrested under a particular act, the Police Act passed earlier this year, but later on, the police press office was telling journalists I've been arrested under a different act. So the police don't even seem to know on what grounds they're arrested by themselves. Eva Santina, this doesn't make me feel comfortable in this country that people are being arrested for shouting who elected him. You're perfectly entitled not to want to believe in a monarchy.

No. Well, totally. I mean, this is under the despotic. bill that was introduced under Pretty Patel, our now former Home Secretary earlier in the year, a few generous raised concern. The police told us it was under Section 5 of the Public Order Offend. So Public Order Act 1986, it applies to behaviour deemed likely to cause harassment, alarm, or distress.

I'm not quite sure how who elected him could cause harassment, alarm or distress. Who elected? I'm not sure saying who elected him constitutes harassment, alarm or distress. I think it would make more sense if he had been charged, which was similar in Edinburgh, there were sorts and talk that they were getting arrested under this bill under Pretty Patel's bill, because that's very subjective that line in that. So any protest that can be described as disturbing the peace you could be done for. But this is totally bizarre.

The idea that you could be expressed an opinion anti-monarchy. Minister, I think we can all agree this seems like a massive overreach by the police. A bit more complicated is what happened in Edinburgh today is the Queen's hearse went past. One protest had junked out because Prince Andrew was walking behind. nurse, it's his mother, absolutely understand why he'd want to be there to pay his respect. But I can't understand why some members of the public would feel aggrieved about a public display or appearance by somebody who's recently been so disgraced. And so one young member of the crowd began bellowing things about Prince Andrew.

And he was manhandled and dragged out of there. And I'm not sure what I feel about that, because it did seem completely insensitive to do it in front of the Queen's Hearst. having said that, I understand why emotions right might run high about Andrew being sent to stages some of this. I'm more inclined to believe, and I'm trying to be as gracious as I can, to the people that arrested him, that it was because there was some sort of fear for his security as opposed to anything else, because that's the only reason that I can possibly think of...

But the crowd weren't really responding to it. Yeah, who would, right? And he was behind a barrier. Exactly. That's what he couldn't have gotten over there. Exactly. But, you know, I don't think anyone thinks Prince Andrew is quite... I mean, what do you think, Simon, of that incident?

Yeah, I mean, personally, I wouldn't protest at a funeral procession. I never protest at an act of mourning. But that's on taste grounds more men and the guys, right? But the fact that something's distasteful or something I don't like isn't a reason for it to be illegal. It's not really can't arrest everyone doing anything that is tasteful. And, you know, to put it bluntly, a lot of people will ask, why is it not Andrew who's being arrested or investigated rather than...

Perfectly reasonable point. And many will think if you pay someone off in a... in a civil accord action to tune in millions of dollars to avoid accord appearance, some people will ask that question. And if you're in that position of privilege, some would ask if Andrew was in a different social position, would he be more likely to be? And didn't have the money to do that.

Exactly. Simon Hill, I don't know why you were arrested. It seems wrong. I don't agree with you. But for what it's worth, you shouldn't have been arrested, in my opinion. We live in a country where I thought free speech was the cornerstone of our democracy. But from what happened to you,

I'm going to doubt that very much. but thank you very much for coming in. Well, thank you. And there's been several similar arrests in London and Edinburgh. Yeah, I just think we've got to take your case by case, but certainly in your case, it seemed a ridiculous overreach. But thank you for coming in. Thank you.

You two stay with me. We're going to have one last segment about the future of the Commonwealth. No pressure. These are big issues. Well, Commonwealth nations are all deliberating now, of course, with the new monarch, what they should be doing. Do they want to become republics? Antigua is the latest in the Caribbean, for example,

to say that they'll have a referendum within the next. three years. We'll discuss all this next. Well, besides the UK, King Charles III, is now head of state in 14 Commonwealth countries, as well as the remaining head of the Commonwealth of 56 nations. But with the late Queen's passing, we now see at the beginning of more countries following Barbados in becoming republics, turning me now as former BBC Royal Correspondent, Wesley Kerr, talked to the contributor, Esther Cracker, and political journalist Averson, who is here to stay with me. Wesley, great to see you.

What is a difference between a Commonwealth country and Commonwealth realms? A Commonwealth country is one of 56 in this free association of countries. There were seven members of the Commonwealth when Elizabeth became queen. So you could argue it's a great success. In PR terms, it's flipped the bad of empire into something positive. And then some countries, when they became independent, choose to keep the British monarch. And that goes back to Canada in the mid-19th century,

which became the first dominion, as they were then called. then Australia, New Zealand, South Africa. So it was largely a white club before the Second World War, including the Irish Free Strait in Newfoundland, then when India became independent and was broken up into India and Pakistan and Sri Lanka, so it then wanted to become a republic. So they had this new formula,

let's make the monarch head of the Commonwealth, and then let's allow republics to stay in the Commonwealth. So 90% of the people of the population of the Commonwealth, are in Asia and Africa and live in republics. But there's these countries, Australia, Canada, New Zealand, Jamaica being the largest in population terms. I can't see the first three immediately becoming republics. Australia looked at that. But we're saying like Antigia now, it's like referendum within three years and so on.

Could there be a bit of a domino effect it? Well, I remember being on tour with the Queen in the Caribbean 30 years ago and being told this will be the last visit to Jamaica. and Jamaica still hasn't had it. It needs a referendum in Jamaica, I think that's the key thing. Have the ones who've gone to the public regretted it? I don't think it makes all that much difference because they all chose to keep the British monarch.

Maybe it's good for tourism. I don't think it's... But Barbados, I don't think, feels any less English than did before. What do you think, I mean, obviously we've seen in recent royal trips this question of whether Britain and the monarchy in particular should be apologising, looking back over the world, the worst side of the British Empire and so on. What do you feel about that? Does that actually make any difference?

As a descendant of slaves, I've always been aware of the history of Britain, but I don't blame my contemporary Brits for the terrible wrongs of the past. I think that better aid, better terms of trade is much better than reparations. I think apologies, Charles has made an apology, William made an apology. I don't think that actually makes the difference. No, I agree. I think you're right. I think tweeting it as a partnership of equals,

that will be the future of the Commonwealth. Is it not from this end of the telescope, not about the monarchy, but about actually things that are common purpose? Esther, it's very important, I think, that the Commonwealth remains strong for King Charles III, and he'll feel very strongly about that. You're from Ghana originally, the Commonwealth country.

What do you feel about this? I think most people that are against the Commonwealth don't really understand the Commonwealth or the people that live within the Commonwealth. And I think actually many people within the Commonwealth are more an extension of traditional British values. than people within this country that are, you know, storned Republicans or don't appreciate the monarchy or the, well, the monarchy or the Commonwealth.

You know, it says something, it's a testament to the Commonwealth, the fact that there are countries that weren't even part of the British Empire that have chosen to join the Commonwealth. And it says something about sort of the continuation of British values and what it means for the world, you know, and what it means for our globalized world now. I think, you know, the fact that they're choosing sort of a greater alliance with something like the UK and the Commonwealth,

as opposed to aligning themselves more with China, for instance. That says a lot about what British values mean around the world. What do you think? Do I see the value in the Commonwealth? Yeah. I don't think that we treat people from the Commonwealth very well in this country. So I can't personally see the value, but I'm not going to sit here and tell you how to feel about it.

I mean, that's always been from improvement. I don't feel as I've been badly treated as somebody conceived in Jamaica all my life here. I don't feel like, I'm like, I think of bad things that have happened to me. Yeah. And, you know, police and nastiness, but I don't think I've been badly treated. Are you alluding to the wind rush scandal and things like that? Definitely, I think, you know, growing up loving Benjamin and Stephania as an author and, you know, his understanding of coming here and just feeling totally alienated

and being told that this was the mother country and he was going to be welcomed here and they're being treated. But that's 40. He doesn't feel that now, though. I could tell you terrible stories of when I was young. And this is so much better than many countries. I think it's a generational thing as well. Because I had older family members that came to the UK before I was as teenagers.

And their experience to mine is completely different. And like I said, you know, nothing is perfect, but it's a testament to Britain and to British values, the fact that even with all of this, there's still countries that choose to join the Commonwealth as opposed to aligning the... I think it's a really good point. But you've got to look at the situation with, like, nurses at the moment.

Where are we looking for nurses? And we are going to... I've got to cut in. Sorry. I've got to leave it there. It's a good debate, though. We should have more on this. I think it's a really interesting conversation,

which Charles will now have to have as our king. Thank you all very much. Thank you, President for coming in. Appreciate it. That's all for us tonight. We'll have more tomorrow and more every night this week, about the loss of his great monarch and also the future under King Charles III. Good night.