Piers Morgan Uncensored - Piers Morgan Uncensored: Ron DeSantis Exclusive

Episode Date: March 23, 2023

On tonight's episode of Piers Morgan Uncensored, Piers its down with Donald Trump's biggest Republican rival, Ron DeSantis. Watch Piers Morgan Uncensored at 8 pm on TalkTV on Sky 522, Virgin Media 606, Freeview 237 and Freesat 217. Listen on DAB+ and the app.  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Good evening and welcome to a special edition of Pierce Morgan Uncensored. From here, the governor's mansion in Tallahassee, Florida. This is the home of Florida's governor, Ron DeSantis, the man that many think could be the next president of the United States. Ron DeSantis will soon deliver his state and the state address. He's set to outline his agenda and highlight his possible 2024 presidential campaign. DeSantis has an even bigger lead, more than 20 points in the survey that we showed you just yesterday. The news comes as DeSantis' top Republican. rival, former President Trump, faces new legal trouble.

I just spent more than an hour with the governor, and we covered a wide range of issues from Ukraine. I was a bit surprised, I think some people were, that you seem to be almost dismissing it as a kind of local dispute. It's time working at Guantanamo Bay. You authorize a use of force feeding some of the detainees who were on hunger strike. I was a junior officer. I didn't have authority to authorize anything.

And in Iraq, we could defeat them on the battlefield without even blinking an eye. To how he proposed to his wife. We were out on the balcony and just kind of dropped to the knee and asked her. You did? Bended a knee. Oh yeah, of course. So you took the knee, governor. Yeah, yeah, we did. That's the only time I take a knee is for that one. What he really thinks of Donald Trump? You made a fatal error in your relationship with Donald Trump.

You got too popular. And of course, the burning question everybody wants to know the answer to. Is he going to run? Do you think you can beat by it? I think so. So you're running them. So here it is. Me, one-on-one with Governor Ron DeSantis in the Governor's mansion. Mr. Governor, well, first of all, thank you very much indeed. Welcome to the free state of Florida.

I've come all the way from London for this. So, you know, that's because London, like most cities in the world right now, and most countries in the world, they're all beginning to ask the same question. Who's this guy, Ron DeSantis? Are you aware of this? I am, and we've been able to see a little bit of that. And look, I have the privilege of being the governor of one of the most dynamic jurisdictions in the world right now.

If you look over the last four or five years, the amount of people that have decided to move to Florida, just visit Florida, or even just look to Florida for inspiration has been unlike anything we've seen in the state's history. So we've got a lot of tremendous people here. We've got a lot going on that's positive, and we're not afraid to lead the way. I want to start with a positive quote,

which you're going to really like, and then move on to some negatives that other people have said. So it's going to start well on this, okay? This is from a guy called Richard Littlejohn. He writes for the Daily Mail newspaper in the UK. Also a Florida resident for many decades. And he's a friend of mine. And he wrote this recently.

DeSantis is living proof that when conservatives govern as conviction conservatives committed to freedom, light regulation, low taxes, strong borders, and proper policing, and don't crumble in the face of militant wokeery, voters lap it up. What's your response to that first? Is that a good categorization?

I mean, why you think you've been successful? I think all that's true. I think, you know, you just think the environment. We've done more on conservation for our Everglades, but this is like things that really matter to people. I'm not trying to control their lives. I'm just trying to make the environment better. Crime, we're law and order.

We are not dealing with letting criminals out or going soft. I actually removed a Soros back prosecutor from Tampa who said he wasn't going to follow the law. COVID, we made sure that we protected people's freedoms. People knew they could come here and do well. And yes, we have not. no-income tax. We have one of the lowest per-capita tax burdens in the country, lowest per-capita debt burdens in the country, and the largest budget surplus in the history of the state. We have

more people, significantly more people employed today than we did pre-COVID. A lot of the lockdown states still haven't gotten back to their pre-COVID employment levels. And so I think what we've done is worked, and I think people have responded positively. All this has made you very popular in Florida. I mean, just anecdotally, being here for a few days, I've been completely stunned. frankly, by the amount of adulation you get from Floridians. But as your star has risen, as you know, out of come the knives. This is from Banacy Fair. They said you're a wannabe autocrat, already governed the Sunshine State like a banana republic.

You're the Genghis Khan of social issues, using every opportunity to target and demonized groups that have already been targeted and demonized throughout history. Trevor Noah called you an ignorant racist. Stephen Colbert, a gaping leap. Seth Meyer said you were cruel, sadistic, stupid, repulsive, ghoulish. When you see this kind of hatred, what it says to me as a journalist who's covered a lot of presidential runs and political maneuverings, is it means that people are getting a bit worried about you.

I think it's right. I think they see me over the target. I'm obviously coming at it from a different perspective than they like to see. Those are all people on the left. and sometimes far left. But here's the thing. I think the reason why I won the biggest landslide in the history of Florida for governor's race

is because that criticism is so far removed from the reality. There's legitimate things we can criticize everybody for, including me. But when you start talking about being an autocrat, all I do is I look at my constitutional powers and I govern in a way to advance the principles that I believe in. The criticism really falls on deaf ears. And I got it from all quarters

for the whole time I was governor. I mean, you know during COVID, I was the number one governor being attacked. I criticized you. There you go. And that's fine. I discovered today. I checked what I tweeted about you historically. There you go.

And I found a tweet, I think, in 2021, where it looked like Florida's record was not going to be good on COVID because you've been one of the first people in America, certainly, to bring back freedoms for people. And I was quite scathing. I said, this guy's going to have blood on his hands. Actually, it didn't turn out that way. Actually, you were very bold in a lot of the stuff you were doing, bolder than many other governors, and it turned out in many areas you were vindicated. Well, here's the thing.

Excess mortality, lowest in the Sun Belt, even lower than New York and California for all-cause excess mortality, and then, of course, economically and freedom, we've done way better. Now, listen, I was very concerned about COVID because I've got more elderly than just about anyone. I've got 4,000 long-term care facilities. I've got condos with senior stuff. them all across. And I'm a tourism state. So this was a huge existential threat to Florida.

One of the other criticisms that's used against you is about your personality. It probably comes for people who don't know you very well because those who I've spoken to tell a different story. But you're being depicted in some of the national media as very intense, quite boring, charisma-devoid. you know, someone reviewed your book and said he would launch any charm offensive unarmed. Well, I appreciate the knocks on the book. It's the number one book in America, far and away. I've sold more than any non-president in the history of the country in terms of the first week. So we've been doing pretty good. A lot of people like it. Does a hostile New York Times review helps sales?

Yes, with conservatives, of course it does, yes. So here's the thing. I think, you know, there is, these are people who are in the political class, journalists class, politicians in like D.C. particular, they get mad. I don't do the cocktail parties. I don't like rubbing elbows with other people. I like doing my job and then spending time with my family. That's just what I do. A lot of the people that are criticizing,

they would say, oh, he doesn't do well with donors, he doesn't glad hand with them. And yet I raise more money than any non-presidential in the history of America. Are you kidding me? So we tend to do, we do well, but I do think that I deal better with regular people than I do with some of the people

the political class. Your book, you start with a quote from Sir Winston Churchill, the greatest of all Britons, certainly as far as I'm concerned. It's about courage. And it says courage is rightly considered the foremost of virtues, for upon it all others depend. Why did you choose that as the quote to kind of set up the book? Because I think what I've been called upon to do as governor is make the right decisions when it wasn't easy. I've got to do what's right and I've got to stick by that and I've got to be willing to take the arrows. And I think we need more of that in terms of our leaders now. Is Churchill a hero of yours? Absolutely. Why? Well, he saw the danger very early on. He spoke out and he rallied Britain in a very difficult time. And I think he was just very inspirational.

He's a strong leader, of course, but he had a way with words. I mean, how you say these things to really stir people's patriotism, emotions, I think is something that I've always admired. You've achieved a lot in Florida, and you had this thumping win, one and a half million more people voted for you second time round as governor, an amazing validation of what you've been doing. Could you do that nationally? I think you could. I think one of the things that was interesting about my election is the voters in Florida overwhelmingly thought the country was on the wrong track, but they thought Florida was on the right track. We're very tough on crime. The policies in Washington are to be more weak on crime.

We believe in good stewards of the environment, but I don't. want to control everyone's behavior with some of the stuff that's going on. And we have really fought against the woke ideology. What I want to know is where did this come from? So tell me a little bit about your upbringing. I know your parents, your father was a Nielsen TV engineer for TV ratings. Because back then you had to put the box on the television sets. And he was physically doing that. And your mom was a nurse. And they still live in Dunedine, I think, in Florida. Duned founded by Scots. Yes, indeed. Yeah. Tell me about them and about the influence they they've had on you?

So my father was born, is from Western Pennsylvania, a town called Aliquippa. That's a steel town. His father worked in the steel mills. My mother's from Youngstown, Ohio, another steel town. So this is blue collar, gritty, religious, patriotic. My household values really reflected that working class upbringing and basically what I think instilled in me is, you know, I love the country, trusted God, but just really believed you don't get anything handed to you in this life.

The other question I'd do is looking at me. every day and think, am I about to do something my mother will either like or dislike? There you go. Do you have that saying? Absolutely. Guiding principle. Absolutely. You did a press conference this morning and you were responding to the reports, rumors of Donald

Trump potentially being indicted. And you gave you an interesting response, very sort of supportive of him in a way by saying, yeah, I think what's happening there is outrageous. It's political posturing by this deal and so on in New York. and they should be focused on more important things. But you also repeated twice, you didn't have any knowledge of harsh money being paid to porn stars.

Was I right to feel that there was a slightly sensorious tone to that? That kind of thing is just not anything you would ever get involved with? Well, I think there's a lot of speculation about what the underlying conduct is. That is purported to be it. And, you know, the reality is that's just outside my wheelhouse.

I mean, that's just not something that I can speak to. So, you know, I hope it doesn't come to where you end up seeing this going forward. I mean, look, if you are a very strident prosecutor in disguise on the left, and you're not prosecuting a lot of crimes, Manhattan's gotten less safe, you're going to go after somebody on the other side for some novel offense. That just does not inspire confidence, and people see that as weaponizing the justice system. So I think it's fundamentally wrong to do that, and, you know, I just made it be known.

But, you know, we'll see. Maybe you won't come to that. I mean, we haven't seen anything firm yet. Does personal conduct in any leader politically in America? Does it matter how you behave as a leader? I mean, I think at the end of the day, what a leader, you really want to look to people like our founding fathers, like what type of character?

It's not saying that you don't ever make a mistake in your personal life, but I think what type of character are you bringing? So somebody who really set the standard is George Washington, because he always put the Republic over his own personal interest. When we won the American Revolution, Washington surrendered his sword. George III said, well, if he surrenders... He did not intrude into private grief without him. We could have had King Pierce by now.

But George III said, he's the greatest man in the world if he gives up power. And so I think the personal is more about how you handle your public duties and the kind of character that you bring to that endeavor. How important is truth to you? We live in a world where people talk about my truth, as if somehow you can create your own version of the truth. facts are facts, the truth is what it is. It's the truth. People feel, whether it's been in the US or the UK with Boris Johnson, they feel like there's been a departure from truth being an

important factor of leadership. A hundred percent. I mean, look, truth is essential. We have to agree that there's a certain reality to the world we live in. And if we can just create our own facts, then we're never going to be able to agree on anything or never really be able to do policy in a way that makes sense. And so, yes, it's not your truth or my truth. It's the truth. You went to Yale and Harvard. It was described as a blue-collar kid from Tampa among the communist millionaires. You said you were the only person to leave either of those places more conservative than you started. I think so. I mean, you know, I wasn't political when I got there, because where I came from, I didn't know if you were a Republican-Democrat. When I got there,

you know, you had a lot of militant leftism. One of Yale's mottoes is for God, for country for Yale. the classroom, no way. I mean, it was very anti-religion, particularly Christianity, and very anti-Americanism, and really adopting a lot of the left-wing mantras of the day. And I kind of rebelled against that, because I'm like, wait a minute, you know, I'm proud to be an American. I wouldn't be here in any other country, perhaps. And so this is something that I rejected. And then by the time I got to Harvard, I was already set. They weren't going to change me. It's what's extraordinary is to watch the way campus sort of ideology is gone. I mean, if it was bad then, it's immeasurably worse now.

This woke ideology has got a grip, not just in America, but in the UK and around the world. It's not good for them because when they get into the real world, their assumptions have never been questioned. You should want your assumptions question. A university is about pursuing truth. It's about rigor and academic integrity and giving people the foundations so they can think for themselves and be citizens of the Republic. not to impose ideology. We want there to be free speech on campus. We want the professors to come from a wide variety of viewpoints. You can't have every professor having the same leftist dogma in the class. That's not good education. Right. I mean, I lost a job because I disbelieved Mega Markle with her claims of racism against the royal family. I said, I don't believe it. So I had to leave my job. It was completely insane. When you think about it, now I'd be fired for believing it. That's true. Right? That's true. I mean, it's true. Although, I'll tell you, though, my book beat print.

You know, his book had come out earlier, number one, and then when I became number one, I was higher than Prince Harry. We're all very grateful. What do you make of those two? Do you have a view of them? I don't. I mean, you know, I think that I really respected the Queen. I mean, I think she was really elegant and I think her stoicism, and I think it was really good, you know, as the younger generations, it's a little bit more mixed. I mean, that's just the reality.

Are they annoying? I think for some they are. I mean, look, I'm not involved in that Malou. I just kind of focus on, but I think for some Americans, they can be. More from Governor DeSantis after the break. You had a choice when you left at Harvard, which was to take big money and go into relatively easier work,

I guess, than what you chose to do. But instead, you wanted to serve in the Navy. That's a big moment for you, that decision. Why did you decide to do that? A lot of that was, you know, in the wake of 9-11. The world had changed. I was growing up in like the 90s and high school and then in college graduated for 9-11. Our country didn't have a care in the world.

Cold War was over. There was prosperity. And people weren't even thinking of that. And then when the towers fell, it just changed my outlook. And I know we didn't have a draft or any of that. But I was like, look, you know, I should be willing to help out here. And I'll have time to do other things in my life. And so we ended up volunteering.

We did the Navy. And at that time, I didn't know what I was in store for. But I ended up doing a lot of stuff around the country and around the world including being in Iraq. And it was really, really valuable experience. I mean, when you wear the cloth of your country, that's meaningful service. And the people that you meet along the way are great.

But there's just a lot, you know, Jack Kennedy said people can look back on their life with a great deal of satisfaction and say, I served in the U.S. Navy, and I agree with them. Where were you on 11th? You know, I was, I think I had just graduated college and was kind of not a care in the world. And all of a sudden, boom. you know, it happened. And so I had already been either accepted or planning on going to law school,

and that's when I decided to start looking into some other career choices. That moment was a pivotal moment in modern American history in many ways, unleashed a whole series of consequences. Would you've done things any differently if you've been running America at the time? Obviously, we're 20 years on from the Iraq War, for example, which many viewed as an illegal conflict potentially, but certainly one that created a lot of turmoil, the rise of ISIS and so on. Would you have invaded Iraq? So I think in hindsight, it's very easy to make these things. So clearly we had to go to Afghanistan, knock off the Taliban, and decimate al-Qaeda. I would not have stayed in Afghanistan for what we did.

I mean, the idea that we were going to turn that into a democracy, it's just a different culture, and they're organized differently. And then I think in Iraq, what I saw there was, you know, you said democracy when Saddam was removed, these are people cozying up with the Iranians. And so we now have a situation where Iraq is basically an Iranian satellite. And Iran has probably been our most significant adversary, certainly in that region, you know, since the Shah fell. So in hindsight, I mean, I honor everybody's service because I think they did a lot of great things.

But in hindsight, has the Middle East gotten better as a result of that? I think Iran's gotten stronger as a result of that conflict. You spent some time at Guantanamo Bay, obviously a very contentious entity in many ways. Barack Obama campaigned in 0809 to close him and didn't, still open today. Clearly a lot of very bad people went there, but we now know there were some who were detained for over a decade and were innocent people. You were there in a legal capacity. Did you have any qualms about what was going on there, about holding people that long without, trial? Well, I think that there should have been military commissions. I did support that.

But what I saw, because there was a median there, but they were being mistreated in Gitmo. What I saw was basically a professionally run prison. And there was different kind of categories. So the Khalid Sheikh Mohammed is going to be like a maximum security. Some of these other guys were like open air, play soccer all day who were viewed as less of a threat. But what they're trying to figure out is, okay, if we release this person back to Afghanistan, are they going to engage in terrorism against, and that's hard to know definitively. So I think they tended to err on the side of caution. Now, I will say these detainees would all say,

they all said they're Koran salesmen. Like every one of them was a Koran salesman, and that clearly wasn't the case either. Did you have any issues as a lawyer with people being held that long without any trial? But it's a tough thing when you have a situation with terrorism and war because they're not a nation state, and you can't try them, I think, in a civilian,

court so you really need military commissions. I actually thought I was going to be involved in military commissions and they really just sputtered they didn't get off the ground. They should have had those up and running and it's some due process but it isn't what you would get in a civilian trial. The Washington posted a big deep dive on this today actually about what you did out there. One of the things they said was that you authorize the use of force feeding. That's not true. Yeah, that's not true. Yeah. Any of the stuff that people have said. He just had finished it, force feeding, the detainees who were on hunger strike. Was that true?

So I was a junior officer. I didn't have authority to authorize anything. There may have been a commander that would have done feeding if someone was going to die, but that was not something that I would have even had authority to do. That's wrong. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. What did you learn? You then went to Fallujah in 2007.

That was the year of the search. I think more American troops died that year than in any year since World War II, I think. So really incredibly dangerous and a lot going on. You were there as a legal counsel to the commander of Navy SEAL team won. And obviously the SEALs weren't as well known as they are, I guess, now. But an incredibly demanding job, I would think, under a lot of pressure. What did you learn about yourself while you were doing that? Well, it's interesting.

So we had folks all across Alianbar Province. So like the headquarters was Fallujah. We had Ramadi, Al-Assad, Haditha, hit, all these places. and there were operations every night and you know they tend to work at night and so you're you're just crazy out one day after another after another for a six and a half month period but you know at the end of the day I mean honestly I kind of felt honored to be there because these were some of our best people that I was able to kind of hitch a wagon with and they were making a good difference by the

time we left there were not Americans dying in Al-Anbar province anymore I mean al-Qaeda and Iraq had been crushed the Anbar awakening had happened and most of the deaths at that point, probably 90%, were in the Shia areas with the Iranian-backed forces. So it was a successful deployment, not just our deployment, but the Marines and the Army who were there during that time. Did you come under any personal attack? Not anything special. I mean, you know, I would travel from different areas, but what they would do is, like, if you fly it in a helicopter, they would do pitch black at night so that they couldn't, you know, shoot it down with an RPG,

but they would not go in the daytime. Still quite an unnerving experience. Well, you just don't know. I mean, because the thing is, we could defeat them on the battlefield without even blinking an eye, but that wasn't how they were fighting. They were fighting to try to say, if you're going convoying from Bermadi to Fallujah, we're going to try to blow up your convoy. And so it's just kind of like, okay, if the number's called, the number's called.

I want to talk to you about another war, Ukraine. I was quite surprised, I'll be honest with you, by what you said last week about Ukraine, describing it as a territorial dispute. It's picked up a lot of blowback, as you know. Only surprised because of your military background and because you were on record as supporting helping Ukraine after the invasion of Crimea, do you regret actually just using that one phrase? Well, I think that it's been a territorial dispute. I think it's been, I think it's been mischaracterized. Obviously, Russia invaded that. That was

wrong. They invaded Crimea and took that in 2014. That was wrong. What I'm referring to is kind of where the fighting is going on now, which is that western border or the eastern border region, Donbis and then Crimea and you have a situation where Russia has had that I don't think legitimately but they've had there's a lot of ethnic Russians there so that's some difficult fighting and so whatever the conflict area that's what I was referring to and so it wasn't that I thought Russia had a right to that and so if I should have made that more clear I could have done it but I think the larger point is okay Russia is not shown the ability to take over Ukraine to to topple the government or certainly to

threaten NATO that's a good thing they've been weakened you now have the fighting and those areas, I just don't think that's a sufficient interest for us to escalate more involvement. I would not want to see, you know, American troops involved there. But the idea that I think somehow Russia was justified and that's nonsense. I mean, I was in Ukraine interviewing President Zelensky last summer. What I was struck by was the utter resolve of the people there, which I suspect would be exactly the same if somebody invaded any part of America, which was not to give Putin an inch, not an inch. In fact, they wanted Crimea back. And I I think they would take issue with it being categorized.

Yeah, so as I say, I think they have the right to that territory. I just think that's the source of the conflict. It's in those regions, which there's likely going to continue to be a lot of conflict on that going forward. So if I could snap my fingers, I'd give it back to Ukraine 100%. But the reality is, what is America's involvement in terms of escalating with more weapons? And certainly, ground troops, I think, would be a mistake. So that was the point I was trying to make. But Russia was wrong to invade.

They were wrong to take Crimea. What's your view of Putin? Look, I think he's got grand ambitions. I think he's hostile to the United States, but I think the thing that we've seen is he doesn't have the conventional capability to realize his ambitions. And so he's basically a gas station with a bunch of nuclear weapons. And so for us, one of the things we could be doing better is utilizing our own energy resources in the United States.

We could be permitting natural gas pipelines from Marshallis, doing a lot in Alaska. That's where he gets all his power. And obviously, he's influenced Europe by having so much energy. So the way to hit Putin is they hit him with energy. But I do think you look back. All the defense analysts and me in the past, we overestimated his conventional capability. This has been a huge blunder for him, huge costs,

and we'll see what ends up happening with his longevity and power. But this has been a loss for them. There is a move now to hold him accountable for war crimes, bombing maternity hospitals and genocidal activity in parts of Ukraine, wiping out whole cities, Maripol and others. Maripald and others. Would you support that? I mean, I think he is a war criminal.

This ICC, we have not done that in the United States because we're concerned about our soldiers or people being brought under it, but I do think that he should be held accountable. How does it end the Ukraine War, do you think? That's the thing. I mean, I think those regions and the border in Crimea, you know, I think are likely to be a stalemate for quite some time. And, you know, unfortunately, a lot of people will end up dying if that's the case.

but I do not think it's going to end with Putin being victorious. I do not think the Ukrainian government is going to be toppled by him, and I think that's a good thing. One of the issues about it was, well, people were saying, okay, well, what happens if China decides to invade Taiwan, which may well happen in the next couple of years? If they do, is that also a territorial dispute? Yeah, so the thing with territory is just that's where the fighting was.

You know, there's not fighting on the western side, and you have situations where there's ethnic Russians there, and it's just, it's a messy situation. But Russia did not have a right to go in to Crimea or to go in in February of 2022, and that should be clear. And if China did invade Taiwan? That would be aggression.

Absolutely would be aggression. And Americans should get involved in that? So I would say that Taiwan is a strong ally of the United States. I think that that's a critical interest. I think it's for us, but also for our key allies like Japan and South Korea. And I think overall, the number one issue that we face internationally is checking the growth and the rise of China. They're much more powerful, I think, than Putin and Russia are.

And they really represent the biggest threat that we've seen to our ability to lead since the Soviet Union. After the break, Governor DeSantis tells me how he proposed to his wife. Would you ban teetop? I would. I think so. Would you? I think so. I mean, I think it's...

From everybody in America. I think it's a security risk. I think they are harvesting so much data on our citizens. There's a whole bunch of other apps and stuff that are out there. And honestly, Pierce, I got young kids. I don't want our kids on some of this stuff. And on sex education in school, what is your clear position on that now? So what our position is basically, you know,

we don't want to be injecting sexuality and things like gender ideology in particularly the younger grades. And, you know, you do have places around this country where they will have kindergartners say, okay, declare what your gender is, or tell a student that they may have been born a boy, but maybe they're really a girl. That is totally inappropriate.

I think these are things that parents should be taking the lead on, as they deem appropriate, but that should not be imposed in the school system. Did you ever think you'd be alive in a world where a six-foot, four-inch former male swimmer could suddenly identify as female and start demolishing women born to female bodies in competitive swimming?

for example. You know who I'm talking about. Penn. It just seems... After spending three years on the men's team, and then switching there, and then you have the situation, you have that famous picture of the swimmer within the three women, and there's so much smaller. The runner-up on that was actually from Sarasota, and I did a proclamation from the state saying she was the rightful winner. She was the best women's 500-yard freestyle swimmer, so it's taking away opportunities from girls and women athletes. I completely agree. I think it's a mad debate.

Talking of young girls, actually a young woman that you met on a golf range many years ago. There you are, you're on a golf range, and you spy two things. One is it was a bucket of balls that you have. And there's this very beautiful woman who you didn't know, but she was called Casey. Turned out to be your wife.

You didn't know that. Now she tells this story and says that actually she was looking over and eyeing with great covetousness your bucket of balls. Your version is that she was looking at you and eyeing you up. Have you reached an agreement about this? So I thought she was looking at me. I really did. And we did have the balls.

And so I used the balls as a way to start talking to her. But my view was like, look, what's the worst she can do? He's not want to talk to me? I'm like, I am not letting this opportunity go. So we went over there. We started talking. We divvied up the balls, hit them. and then we went out after that and kind of the rest is history.

But I think, in fact, she was looking at the balls. I do think I was wrong. When did you know this is the one for me? I mean, I would say pretty early I was like, this is different. And, you know, I made sure to court her. Of course, I got mobilized to go to California, then Iraq, so we stayed together through all that. But I told myself, like, as soon as I get back from Iraq, I'm popping the question. And so we ended up doing that.

How did you do that? Oh, I took her to a nice little resort in Florida and we kind of went out and we were out on the balcony and just kind of dropped to the knee and asked her. Oh yeah, of course. So you took the knee governor. Yeah, yeah, we did. That's the only time I take a knee is for that one. And she had a ring? Had a nice ring and everything was really good.

Did she hesitate? No, no. Immediate, yeah. Immediate, yeah. Well, I think she, you know, she had let it be known that she was happy and that we were ready to go to the next level as well. So I don't think it was anything that was like a super shot. but it was good to get that one in the wind column. When she got cancer, she talked very moving about this

in a campaign commercial for when you ran for governor in 2022. But she talked very emotionally about it and gave a real like heartfelt assessment of you. And I don't want to bring your blushes here, but she said, when I was diagnosed with cancer, when I was facing the battle for my life, he was the dad who took care of my children, when I couldn't. He was there to pick me off the ground and I literally couldn't stand.

He was at a fight for me when I didn't have the strength to fight for myself. When you watch that, because I don't think you'd seen it before it went out. And you see your wife crying and she pays that kind of tribute to you. What did that make you feel? Well, look, you know, for sickness and in health, good times and bad. I mean, that's the job of a spouse. And to have her thank me publicly like that was very, heartwarming. I know it touched a lot of people throughout the state of Florida. And you're right.

I didn't know what she was going to say because she asked me, I want to go over this. I said, you know, don't worry about my filter. Don't listen to anyone else. You just speak from your heart. So she kicked everybody out of the room when she, when she filmed it, except the camera guy. And she just spoke from the heart, no script, no anything. And I think it told a lot of people about kind of what we've gone through as a family. You know, you never want to see anyone go through something like that. But there is something a little bit more poignant when you have a young that's fighting for her life with these young kids, because no kids should lose a parent like that.

And so that I think was a source of fight for her. It was a source of fight for me. And we just had such a great outpouring of support from the community that it did lift her spirits. Did you fear that you may lose her? So it's interesting. You always have that fear, but I'm a data guy. I went and looked it up.

I said, you're going to beat it. She's like, and she didn't necessarily want to hear that because she was so scared just as anyone would be. would be, but I'm like, I've looked at the data, I'm looking at the treatments, you know, you're going to be okay. So I really felt confident, and the doctors had a plan. I talked to doctors all around the country, and I didn't even tell them what the plan was. I was like, okay, what do you recommend? And they all said do the things that we ended up doing. So I felt really, really comfortable. There was a big consensus from people all over the country that I talked to.

I knew it wouldn't be easy, but I absolutely thought she was going to beat it. What was the lowest moment, do you think? I think the chemotherapy. I mean, I think, too, I think the beginning when we get the, because she went to the doctor, she felt something, the doctor cleared her. They did a physical exam, said that you didn't have anything, don't worry. And like me, if a doctor said, I'm okay, I would never think twice about it. She had a feeling that there was just something wrong. So she really fought to get a mammogram, and so a couple weeks later, we got it.

I told her, I was like, you're fine. And then it came back. And so I think that was really, really difficult. That's a jolt moment. It really is, because it totally changes your life. it changes your family's trajectory, everything all of a sudden is up for grabs. So I think that was, you know, one of the most difficult and then just not knowing what to expect, especially before we saw a physician and one of the cancer doctors,

we had no idea really what we were dealing with, apart from my kind of side research and I'm pulling up stuff from like Mayo Clinic and researching. So then that was tough. And then I would say the chemotherapy, it just, it's saps you. When she was declared cancer, did she, did she ring the bell? She did, yeah, yeah. Were you there? Yeah, absolutely.

I mean, that moment for you. Oh, yeah, yeah. Well, you know, here's the thing. Well, I know you're tough guy, Rhonda Santis, but standing there as your wife rings the cancer-free belt. We had a big hug. How did you celebrate? Actually, Guinness. Did you? Really?

We both really like Guinness. I love her. It's just something. And when I remember we went to Ireland and Scotland years ago and, like, just being in the pubs, being able to do it. You know, they said that the beer was all warm over there, but they actually have Guinness extra cold taps. Oh, no, yeah. So you get it. I mean, it's just fantastic.

So you had a couple. of Pines of Guinness. That's right. No better way to do that. There was an incredibly sad time in your life which was the loss of your sister, Christina, who died in London. It was reported she died of a pulmonary embolism. Is that what happened? And she was leading a great life. She just got engaged, I think, to a British guy, a life was all ahead of her. And then bang, it's all taken away. and she dies at the age of 30. What was that moment like for you and your family? Well, I think it was just, you know,

kind of is like a shattering experience, you know, partially because she was doing well, she was very happy, she was over there, and I remember my mom calling me, my wife and I were on our way back from church. It was like a Sunday morning, and she said that, you know, Christina's in the hospital.

She had a blood clot. And so I'm thinking, like, is she okay? And she seemed to be stable, so she was in the hospital for a couple days and then had the embolism and died in the hospital. And so I just didn't think that that was something that was even possible at that point because I thought that she was stable.

And so we were, I mean, you just feel like, you know, you have your sibling, you know, their future was robbed. And, you know, it's just something I wish I could get back. What did she make of you on what was happening with you? I was the big brother. So we were 85. I was seven years apart.

So we weren't necessarily ever in like the same school together any of that. So I was kind of like a little bit rarefied air in some respects. She always looked up to me. And I think some of it was because I was doing things. She tried to measure up to me and I told her it was like, don't worry about that. I was like, you just be you and do what you can do. And you know, she was very successful. You know, once she got at school, she got her master's and everything.

So, but you know, it just it's a tough thing. I can, you know, you're clearly feeling quite a moment. emotional thinking about it. Yeah. It's hard to think of a worst thing, actually, for a family, I think, than losing a sibling. I mean, I just think, you know, people have their whole lives ahead of them,

and when you're talking about that age, it's just, it's a big tragedy. Coming next, what Ron DeSantis really thinks of his big rival, Donald Trump. Welcome back. This is that part of the interview where I had to ask him the burning questions. Let's get to the question you're not going to answer.

What a guess? I can't imagine my question. Let me ask it anyway, and you can bat it away, because I'm not expecting you to announce now. But everybody's assuming you're going to announce reasonably soon. You're going to run for President of the United States. Are you? So I haven't made a final decision on it.

I've told people I've got a lot that I've got to do over the next few months in Florida. We're going to put a lot of points on the board. And then we'll see how the dust settles after that. But I can tell you, we just have a lot of people that realize the country's not going in the right direction. and believe that what we've been able to do in Florida, if we could apply that nationally, would kind of get America back on track and back on our foundations.

And so I take that very seriously. It's humbling that people have come to me and ask me to do it or urge me to do it. So stay tuned. That sounds like almost a yes. It's a stay tuned. I mean, why wouldn't you? Well, look, I've got a young family.

I mean, I've got different obligations, and it's not the easiest thing in the world to go through. And I also want to make sure that, you know, I have a very clear rationale for doing what I'm doing. All I'm interested in doing is getting things done and accomplishing things. I don't need a title. I don't need fanfare. I just want to know that if I put my mind to this, if we ever did that and we're successful, what could I do to make a difference? And that's what I have to have. Do you think you have what it takes to be President of the United States?

Look, I think what it takes is to have a vision for the country. have the ability to exercise leadership and being willing to stand in that fire when it gets really, really hot and not back down under pressure. And I think I have all those things. You've got a great endorsement from someone. Ron DeSantis is a brilliant young leader. Yale and then Harvard Law, who would make a great governor of Florida, which turned out of me true. He loves our country. He's a true fighter. I mean, there's a ringing endorsement from President Trump. I can change a little bit, I guess. You know, it is what it is. Yeah, I mean, he was a big fan.

No, I mean, I think, and I think, you know, we had a good relationship as a congressman. I mean, I think one of the reasons he got to know me is because I saw this Russia collusion thing as a farce from the beginning. Very few people said that. We had a handful of us in Congress that were fighting back against that. And so I would go out on TV and I would defend him when it wasn't popular and when it was kind of politically risky. But I just thought it was the right thing to do.

And I thought that he had good ideas for the country. So I wanted to do it. And then when I became governor, his last two years as president, I was governor. my first two years, and we worked very well together. I mean, he had a place in Florida. He wasn't a resident yet, but he understood Florida and really worked well with us to serve our state. You made a fatal error in your relationship with Donald Trump.

You got too popular. Well, I would say if you look at some of the change from that and all the way up, what's been the kind of the major thing that happened that's changed his tune was my re-election victory. I mean, that's just, that's kind of the market. because many of his picks in the midterms did badly. And you, who had been, you know, he was a mentor in many ways, I guess early on, had this thumping victory.

And I guess if you're him and you're desperate to get back to the White House, this was a bit of a nightmare that you were getting such validation in Florida. My view, though, is like, look, we should want the country to do well. I want other Republicans to do well. I'm not, I want them to eclipse me. You know, we're setting a great standard in Florida. have everyone up their game. I want other governors to do a great job.

Which is your favorite nickname that Trump's given you so far? Is it Ron de Sanctimonious or Meatball Ron? Well, I can't... I think even he went off Meatball Ron. I can't... I don't know how to spell De Sanctimonious. I don't really know what it means, but I kind of like it's long. It's got a lot of valves.

I mean, so we go with that. That's fine. You can call me whatever you want. I mean, just as long as you also call me a winner, because that's what we've been able to do in Florida has put a lot of points on the board and really take this state to the next level. At some stage, I mean, have you read Mary Shelley's book, Frankenstein?

I have not. Okay. It's a great book, and obviously spawn several movies. But there are prophetic words of warning from Dr. Waldman to Dr. Frankenstein. You have created a monster and it will destroy it. And you're alluding to what? I have seen the movie, though. It is a good movie.

We know what I'm talking about it. It's like where Dr. Frankenstein creates a monster, and then loses control of the monster. And in the book, obviously, the monster ends up killing him. Well, look, at the end of the... You know the parallel I'm making it. At the end of the day, you know, what's best for the country? And let's put the country first, rather than worry about any personalities or any type of individual

ambition. But you know... At the end of the day, I'm a vessel for the aspirations of the people I represent. It's really not about me. That's true, but you're up against somebody who definitely cares who gets the credit, who's desperate to want to win back the White House and prove. that his theory that he had it wrong. Well, I'm not up against anybody, you know, quite yet.

We're up against... Well, the polls basically have you two up here and everybody else down here. So if you didn't run... The way I view it, though, but the way I view it though, if I were to run, I'm running against Biden. Like, we're competing for the Republican,

potentially, I get that. But ultimately, you know, the guy I'm going to focus on is Biden because I think he's failed the country. I think the country wants a change. I think they want a fresh start in a new direction. and so we'll be very vocal about that. Do you think you could beat Biden? I think so.

So you're running then? No, I didn't say that. I just said, I think I could. I mean, if you look at Florida... Who would be harder to beat, Biden or Donald Trump? I don't know. Those are two different... If you do decide to run,

unless, you know, we can pretend around the horses here, but if you do decide to run in the next few months, obviously it will then be U.V. Donald Trump for the Republican nomination. People have been quite kind of scathing. They've said your house trained Donald, your diet Coke to his full Coke, right? You've heard all this stuff.

What are the differences between you? Well, I mean, I think there's a few things. I mean, obviously, you know, the approach to COVID was different. I mean, you know, I would have fired somebody like Fauci. I think that he got way too big for his britches, and I think he did a lot of damage. I also think just in terms of my approach to leadership, you know, I get personnel in the government who have the agenda of the people and share our agenda. If you bring your own agenda in, you're gone.

We're just not going to have that. So the way we run the government, I think, is no daily drama, focus on the big picture and put points on the board, and I think that that's something that's very important. You've not been sucked into responding to any of the taunts. Is that a deliberate strategy? I'm just not following it. I mean, I get taunted and I get attacked every day.

I mean, you see some of that. To me, it's just kind of background noise. It's not important for me to be fighting with people on social media. social media. It's not accomplishing anything for the people I represent. I just wanted to check your fingers for a moment. Because I've noticed a very slimmed down Ron DeSantis. You've lost a lot of weight recently. Well, you know, at the end of the day, it's like New Year's resolution, just get back in the swing of things. I'm the same thing. I'm an athlete and a military veteran, and so as governor,

you can get caught up in a lot of other stuff. Apparently, no carbs and no dessert. So I think the sugar is the biggest issue because like basically if you do sugar your body burns sugar If you don't it burns fat and so if you're working out and just eating halfway decent I'll do exactly the same thing by me since Christmas that's all this together there you go you're probably doing a bit better than me But I was asking about your fingers because of this I mean scandal which broke last week That you apparently were eating chocolate pudding with three fingers now where does was that anonymous sources or something It was a very serious allegation In fact, I congratulated the journalist who broke it on the new water game.

But I have to put it to you, Governor. Have you ever eaten a chocolate pudding with three fingers? I don't remember ever doing that. I'm telling you, maybe when I was a kid, but it's interesting. There's a lot of people when they go at you, sometimes they have really good ammunition. Like, you're a crook, you did this, you did that. For me, they're talking about pudding. Like, is that really the best you got?

Okay, bring it on. Governor, it's been great to meet you. and to get under the skin a bit of Governor Ronda Santis. Who knows, next few months, maybe we'll come an interview again when you're running for president. I'm glad you came to Tallahassee. I know it's your first time, and we welcome you to Florida's historic capital. Next time you're in St. Andrews in Scotland. We've got to do that.

If I can get out there, we've got to do that. A little battle on the old course. Yeah, that'd be fun. England v. America. You've got local knowledge, though. I've only played it once. Pay back for George III. There you go.

Good to meet you. Hey, thank you. Appreciate you. Appreciate your time. Well, that's it from me here in Tallahassee, Florida. A very revealing interview there with a pretty remarkable politician. But those two big questions remain for Ron DeSantis. Will he run for president? And if he does, can he win?

That's all. So good night. And remember, keep it uncensored.