Piers Morgan Uncensored - Piers Morgan Uncensored: Sasha Walpole Exclusive

Episode Date: February 10, 2023

On tonight's episode of Piers Morgan Uncensored, Piers exclusively chats with the lady who took Prince Harry's virginity behind a pub, Sasha Walpole. Watch Piers Morgan Uncensored at 8 pm on TalkTV on Sky 522, Virgin Media 606, Freeview 237 and Freesat 217. Listen on DAB+ and the app.  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Tonight on Pierce Morgan Uncensored, a global TV exclusive. She's the woman who took Prince Harry's virginity behind a countryside pub. Sasha Warpoll kept Harry's secret for 21 years and always intended to, but he told his truth about it in his memoir. So tonight, Sasha tells me hers. From London, this is Piers Morgan Uncensored. Good evening from London. Welcome to Piers Morgan Uncensored.

Prince Harry has turned his back on a family and a nation that adored him. He was a lovable rogue, whose childhood heartbreak, united the country in goodwill. We were all very proud of him as he served in the British Army. We cheered his wedding, celebrated the glamorous biracial future of the new monarchy. He added all, Harry, but he's burned most of it to the ground, charged by bitterness and resentment. His way he's war and his family, by telling the lurid story of his private life to a media industry, he says he hates for invading his private life. And that's at the heart of why I think the public here have grown a bit tired of Harry.

They view him as a hypocrite. He spews his truth to the highest bidders whilst repeatedly demanding privacy. He rails against his family for sharing details of their conversations while exposing family secrets and family feuds in books and interviews for millions of dollars.

He's reinvented himself as a be-kind feminist, a mental health campaigner, while showing blatant disregard for anyone other than himself. Nothing better sums that up than his decision to tell the story of losing his virginity in his memoir spare. I suspected he was referring to my recent loss of virginity, inglorious episode with an older woman.

She liked horses quite a lot and treated me not unlike a young stallion. Quick ride, after which she'd smack my rump and sent me off to graze. Among the many things about it that were wrong, it happened in a grassy field behind a busy pub. Well, that story triggered an inevitable avalanche of speculation. Actually, Liz Hurley, had to deny reports it was her, as the chief executive of Cotswold Airport, Susanna Harvey and his former lover, Catherine Omine, and polo coach Emma Tomlinson.

Among others, just last weekend, the actor Rupert Everest said he knew who it was, and he thought it had happened at a ski chalet. Well, Harry knew that he'd ignited a fevered conjecture, but still chose to unpin that grenade and walk away. And the unfair speculation about innocent people is why Sasha Walpole has now thought obliged to tell her story. She kept Harry's secret for 21 years, but he left her with no choice, all his bleating about privacy, Harry simply didn't bother to worry about hers. He didn't think about how

writing in florid detail about losing his virginity might upset Sasha, a children, her husband, her parents, her friends. Sasha, on the other hand, has treated Harry with unwavering respect. She'd have taken a story to the grave if he'd allowed it to. She could have sold a story at any time

in the last two decades as he's sold his. But she chose not to. She behaved with decency, discretion and duty, which ironically, at the very qualities we expect of our royals. The late Queen did that so masterfully. King Charles does it too. So do Prince William, Princess Kate. Harry is the rogue royal, but not quite so lovable anymore. We now know that the older woman, Sasha, is actually younger than his wife, Mega Markle. She speaks affectionately about Harry, even now, and recalls humble tales of youthful frolics in rural

pubs or be familiar to millions of British people. She drives three-ton diggers, works on Guardian and patios and leads an honest life with her family in Wiltshire. One is pretty private, actually, and certainly worlds away from a luxury Californian pedestal from which the privacy preaching prince shoots his poison dance back at his family in Britain. But it's actually people like Sasha Walpole represent the very best of British values.

Sadly, I'm not so sure that can be said about Harry anymore. Well, Sasha, Walpole, joins me now. A week ago, I'd never heard of you. No, I know. anybody else apart from your family and friends and now you're like this globally known person and actually through no fault of your own or desire to be publicly known at all no i know it's been a bit of a whirlwind week and hopefully it's a means to an end and i can get back and back to normality go back to work drive my digger hide back under my rock how do you feel about the way this has all exploded in your life

Very surreal. Still doesn't seem real. I don't know, kind of shocked, really. I didn't think that it would hit the headlines like it did. I mean, there's a lot of worse stuff going on in the world right now that probably needs more of a focus. Obviously, we had the earthquake and a few other things going on to war in Ukraine. But yeah, I never thought it would happen like it has. I mean, it's been a fascinating thing to watch Unfair,

because I used to run national newspapers. so I knew exactly what would happen. The moment Harry put in this book the details of how he lost his virginity to an older woman in a field behind the back of a pub, I just thought, well, I know what's happening now. Every single news desk in Fleet Street

and every TV network, they're all sending people off to try and find this poor woman who has probably never said a word about this and now is going to be on the front page of papers from here to America, to China, to Timbuktu. Yeah, it is.

I mean, I had a bit of a running with the paparazzi back in 2001, so I kind of knew how it can turn out. And at first I was a bit like, nope, just hide. It'll be fine. It'll go away, like I have done, you know, in the past. And then suddenly you realise that it's getting closer. Your world is getting smaller. A lot more people are talking about it.

You know, friends from back home are getting questioned, accused. And I was just like, do you know what? The way to stop it is just come forward and say it's me. and then hopefully no sooner it's come out, it will go, and I can carry on with my little life. When was the first moment that you knew that you were in this book? When my friend sent me a screenshot of a comment via what's happened, I was just sat myself from watching telly,

and yeah, I kind of didn't quite know what to do about it. Were you shocked? Were you scared about what may happen to you? Disbelief. Disbelief, he went into so much detail, because then it's obvious who it was. So for me, that was like a huge thing because then suddenly I was like, oh, no, everyone's going to know.

And then, yeah, next day, all the messages started flooding in. I'm trying to imagine what it must be like. When we played the clip of Harry, I don't know if we can play it again, but we played the clip of Harry talking about this. I just want to sort of look at you as you listen to this because I'm trying to imagine what it must be like

to have been you when he came out with this, not just in written word, but also in spoken word. This is a guy who's sixth in line or fifth in line to the throne of this country talking about losing his virginity to you. Yes. Satchel Warpies, take a listen. Okay.

I suspected he was referring to my recent loss of virginity in glorious episode with an older woman. She liked horses quite a lot and treated me not unlike a young stallion. Quick ride, after which she'd smack my rump and sent me off to Grays. Among the many things about it that were wrong, it happened in a grassy field behind a busy pub. What did you feel when you heard this? I don't really know. I can see the humor side of the horse because obviously...

You were a groom at the time of High Grove? Well, not at the time, but I was a groom. I had left Highgrove by the time this had happened. But yeah, I just... I don't know, I could see the funny side to it. You know, we were two friends. And for me, I still see him as Harry. I still see him as a friend that I used to hang out with down the pub,

you know, go and watch the polo with. And yeah, it was just... We're seeing pictures of you both there with some other friends cloning around and stuff. I mean, I suppose that my response to it when I first heard about this was I thought it was breathtaking... I've got to be honest, breathtaking the hypocritical

of someone who goes on and on about privacy to then reveal such a private thing, but not just about himself, but to inevitably spark the trail of interest that would lead to your door without even having the good grace to let you know he was doing it. I mean, if you want to live a private life and you want to get out of the limelight and leave the royal family or whatever to live your life as you want to live it,

to then sell a book and go on Netflix is kind of going against what you're saying you want. But yeah, I just have no. Nobody he didn't call you or nobody contacted you to say you're in the book. No. The first union was a friend WhatsApping you to say, well, this is you. Yeah. We were like, oh my God. I was, yeah, well, I think I probably used a little bit stronger language.

I almost fell off my sofa. But, yeah, it was just, you know, and then obviously all the jokes come in about, oh, young stallion and the older lady. I mean, some of the language she used that, I thought was actually quite disrespectful. It was kind of like, it was all wrong. You were an older woman, treating him like a stallion.

It was all... Yeah, I think it's just the way that he's written, you know, the thing wrong about it, we were two friends. It should never have happened. We crossed the line. It was never intentional. There was nothing before, nothing after. I mean, inglorious, it's not really that glorious

sleeping with someone in a field behind a pub when you're drunk. I don't know. And your moments? Yeah, sometimes. Would you agree it was inglorious then? You know, there is nothing glorious about being drunk and then coping off with one of your mates in the field. I don't know, actually, Sasha. I did that loads of times when I was young.

Always felt pretty glorious in the moment. It was the next morning was the problem. Yeah, I think that's probably what we all found. Let's go back. I want to go back to where it all started, because it's kind of fascinating that you were, you've been a groom at High Grove, like you said. But you frequented this local pubs.

There were two pubs in the years. Tell me about the two pubs. Yeah, I mean, we used to drink at the Rattlebone quite a lot, which is obviously mentioned quite a lot. And then we used to go to the vine tree, and there was another one, the cat and castle. The vine tree was the crime scene. Yep, that's where the crime took place.

Yep. But you would go in these pubs, and it was perfectly normal that Harry and William, in fact, who was in the pub actually on the night in question, But they were both come down as young princes and they'd hang out with you guys. Yeah, I mean, I don't even think, like I said before, it was just a group of friends

who didn't matter if you were a prince, a rider, a groom, a polo player. We were just like, we had horses in common and we just hung out. Any other wars going on? Not really, I think Zara may have popped in once or Tice, but it was just mainly William and Harry. That was their local.

No sign of Uncle Andrea. No, sign of Uncle Andrew. Just as well, probably. Yep. But the, so the atmosphere was very, relaxed. Even though they were royals and you were the royal groom or had been and the others were just local, it didn't really matter what class you were from, what part of society. They didn't care, no one cared. No, at the end of the day, you can't be a polo player without a groom.

Because if you haven't got someone doing your horses, you can't play polo. Right. And it's the same size of the horse world. Pubs are pretty, you know, egalitarian places. Like anything goes, right? It doesn't matter whether you're rich, you're poor, you're this, you're that. It doesn't matter. Everyone just mixes in in a pub. Yeah. Yeah, it is. And, you know, I, I, I, I, I, you know, I, I, generally look back on my years of teenage and young adulthood of fond memories. I really do. Yeah, good fun. A laugh. You know, luckily it was before any social media and, you know, camera phones. Well, now it wouldn't happen probably because there'd be too many phones out. Yeah. The Royals would, I mean, sad for them, but, you know, you wouldn't better go to a local pub like that probably. No. No, it is. You know, you think he probably did have one of the better times growing up because he isn't growing up with social media. He isn't growing up with a camera phone in his face. What was he like then? As I said, he was 16.

He was lovely. You know, fun, sparky. He was just one of the boys. He was, you know, he was a lad. He was good fun to be around. Yeah, I mean, this, he was 16, which was just been a few years after, obviously, his mother died in this terrible tragedy. Had you known him in the aftermath of that? And you spoke to about that? No, I didn't. I didn't get to know him sort of until a bit later on from that. And to be fair, he never ever, you sort of spoke about it. He, you know, he just, we just kept it lighthearted. We were just mates. We just talked about polo, horses, going to the pub. And you become quite good friends. He would ring up your home. Yeah. And he'd text you and stuff.

Yeah, yeah, generally. Sometimes you ring the landline and your mum would answer the phone. What did he call himself? Just Harry. Yeah. Yeah, Harry. And then we'd have a chat. And then probably arranged to meet up somewhere,

go and watch the poll or see what everyone else was doing, see what the plan was. When you make it sound perfectly normal, but how did your mum feel that Prince Harry was ringing a daughter? I don't know. I think because they knew that we all hung out in a group and it wasn't really a big thing back home. Yeah, I think the first time we did it, she was a bit like, oh, was that Harry, Harry.

And I was like, yeah, she said, oh, how funny. And that was about it, really. Did you call him H like his wife does now? No, only in text messages. Maybe he used to sign off as H, but I just thought that's because he couldn't be bothered to write Harry. From what I could gather, a lot of drinking went on in this pub. Yeah, I mean... On the night in question, I read that you'd had 10 shots, is that right?

We did between us. It was a bit of a funny night. It was the night before my birthday, so I was actually 18. But, yeah, and I think... And you had a difficult problem because you've broken up with this guy, and he then rocks up in the pub with his new girlfriend. Yeah, well, he rocked up, and then she rocked up after. And I think when she rocked up, he could sense that I was a bit...

Oh, that's pretty crap. So he then was like, come on, let's, you know, light in the mood, have a laugh, you know? Yeah, and like I say, it just... What were the shots? I think it was a mixture, if I'm honest. I don't think it was... One was a creamy one, so I assume it was... Bailey's. Yeah. Oh my God, Bailey's shots.

Bailies, whiskey, sambuca. Really? All going down. Yeah. Yeah. So he was a shoulder to cry on? He was. I think, I mean, I'm not one for attention, so I just kind of get on with things. But yeah, I just think that he sensed that, you know, I'd not be okay with that. And sort of try just to light in the mood and have a laugh, change. It's not something he would do on a regular basis. I think he generally was just trying to make me feel.

And he had a birthday car for you. He did. handwritten. We've got it here, I think. It said, Dear Sash, have a very happy birthday and don't get too pissed. Luckily, I'll be there to keep an eye on you. Loads of love, Baz. Why don't he call himself Badz? I have no idea. But he always used to sign himself off in different ways, H. Baz. P.S., thanks for everything. What do you think you meant by that? Just as friends, really. I don't think there's anything specific behind it. We're just talking, chatting, but nothing about anything in particular. I think it was just a nice comment

to put in a card. It was also a toy. that he gave you? There was, yeah. What was it? Miss Piggy. Why? I think he won it at the Thought Park that day and just thought it'd be quite nice to give it to his work.

So he won a prize and then just decided to re-gift it? Yeah, pretty much, yeah. But that's the relationship it was. There was nothing, I wouldn't even expect a card or a teddy. It was just come and celebrate and have a laugh. On what moment on that night did things take a turn? Well. Because you're all great friends.

You have been for ages. Yeah, we stuck out the back for a cigarette. and yeah. Right, hold it there. Okay. We're going to take a break and come back. I want to leave it on that. Dun, dun, dun, what happens after the cigarette.

Back with more of my extensive interview with Sasha Walpole after the break. Cliffhanger. Welcome back to my exclusive interview with Prince Harry's first lover, Sasha Walpole, who, just to repeat, is only doing this because of him putting it in his book, Spare all about this night at the pub.

So let's cut to the question. You're having a little crafty bag out the back. Yep. What happened? Who makes the move? He made move. Really? Yeah. Yeah.

I don't even really know why or what happened. We just want a cigarette. And then before you know it, it was all happening. What was happening? Well, he just started to kiss me. And then before you know it, it was all going on. You start kissing. Are you thinking this is weird?

Because you've been really good friends. He is Prince Harry. Yeah. I mean, I didn't see him as Prince Harry. I see him as Harry as a friend. And I think that's, like, quite. a big difference and we were quite drunk so you just get lost in the moment. Yeah you would be off a lot of flaming sandbooters and bailies yeah yeah and then you get lost in the

moment and then you know it it's yeah and then you wake up and well we've actually got lost in the middle field yeah we get up and then this reality kicks in you're like moving a bit too fast here so you go from smoking out the back of the pub to a field nearby yeah any particular reason or just um just to get out of the way of people i think because obviously his security guys were that right yeah yeah they were They were just in the car park. Did you have to give them a slip? Well, I think we'd gone over the fence to have a cigarette away from everyone because he wasn't really meant to be smoking.

So, yeah, we just hopped over the fence, seemed like a good idea at the time. And the next thing, I mean, did you know as you were in flagrante in the field that he was actually a virgin? No, I didn't, no. I don't know why, but I didn't even think about it because it's never been on my mind before. When did you find out?

Was it actually, was it only really confirmed by the book? No, well, I suppose so 100%, but yeah, you kind of people talk and then the next day was apparent that, yeah, it was his first. You were the chosen one? I was indeed, yeah. Does it feel weird talking about this? It does, because it's just something that happened so long ago. And to me, it's not a big deal. I just, yeah, it's one of those things.

It's quite a big deal. It is in the eyes of people, yeah, I suppose. But like I say, I'd seen him as a friend. And if anything, it's just you've overstepped that line with a friend. The entire collision lasted five minutes. Probably at the higher end of expectation for men of that age when they lose their virginity. But what happened was it awkward afterwards?

He went back to the pub, right? Yeah, we kind of was like, oh, okay. We decided to go separate ways. So he went one way, I went the other, trying to make it look less obvious, but it doesn't really work. Where were the security guys? At that point, they'd realised that he hadn't come out of the pub

because it was closing time. And yeah, they were looking for him. found him down the road I think. Did they ask what had been going on? No. No, he was kind of taken off and I went home. You left your belt in the field. I did, yeah. I had to go back the next day when I collected my card to retrieve my belt. And when you saw your friends when you got back to the pub,

what did you say to them? Nothing, there was quite a few giggles and they kind of knew what had happened and I think they probably knew what was going on when the security had started looking for him. But yeah, they just, no one really said. anything I think everyone was just been like keep quiet and carry on you wake up in the morning you're presumably quite hung over yeah and then is at that moment where you suddenly go oh god i've just remembered yeah yeah it's that cringe factor that creeps in and you're like oh no i've well and truly

overstepped the mark um yeah what did you think to do then i mean anything did you try and contact no i thought i just need to go and get my car i've probably had to go to work or get ready for work the next I just wanted to get all my stuff. It was my birthday, so I probably had plans that day. Who did you tell about what had happened? I told my sister and I told my mum and... How did they react? How did they weren't really fazed my sister's land. Okay. Yeah, but they knew him as Harry.

They weren't thinking immediately royal wedding, the balcony scene. No. We're on it. I think we're quite far from the royal wedding. But yeah, no, I think, yeah, my sister, you know, she found it quite amusing, quite funny. my mum, you know, she was just like, oh, okay. And yeah, as long as I was safe and happy and not in any trouble. Did your dad know?

Do you know, I think I brushed the comment over, but he would probably be like, not listening and it's not something that I'm going to go and make him listen to him to. I just want to go, yeah, yeah, I step with Harry and wandered off out of the door. I was like, I'm not going to sit him down and make him listen to what his 19-year-old daughter had done.

So, yeah. I mean, the weird part of the story for me is that you then have no. more contact with Harry at all. I think had this friendship which then builds to this, you know, thrilling de Numa. That's it. You never see or speak to him again. No, we haven't. We haven't. You know, there's no messaging. There was nothing. And it was a little bit weird. You think? I think it's because foot and mouth was right that summer, you know, and I think the social circles, they weren't happening as much because... The polo wasn't happening. Nothing was happening. Everything was grounded. Everything was stopped. So you didn't naturally see each other?

No, no. You know, in the normal group of people that would have been buzzing for the summer weren't here. And at that point, I then went to a different nightclub. We went over to Oscars at Longley and I met my husband there. You know, we got on

and then my social circles moved to a different area. Did you tell your husband? I did, yes. How did we act? Well, he kind of knew because it was not long after all the pictures came out in 2001. So it was kind of all around the same time.

He didn't really care. Yeah, he wasn't faced. I mean, it's fascinating to me that this is 21 years ago and the last you ever see of Prince Harry is immediately after you just had sex with him. Yeah, I know, strange. It's sort of random, isn't it? It is. I mean, I don't know.

He was a young boy, so for him, it may have been mega awkward. You know, it's two friends that crossed the line, and it's always going to be a little bit awkward. But if it's your first time, then you're probably finding it There would have been a lot of people, Sasha, in your position, because you weren't from a wealthy family, right? You've never had huge riches or anything. A lot of people might have been tempted to have cashed in

on their night of lust with Prince Harry. You never did, why? Because he was a friend. He was a friend, I didn't see it like that. You kind of feel protective, not because of who he is, but I'm like that with all my friends. But yeah, I just never occurred to me to cast him.

No, not really. But that's a decency that's quite rare actually these days. Yeah, well, you just, some things are just better left unsaid. I mean, there's an irony, isn't it? There's you being decent and wanting to protect him and his privacy. Yeah. And yet, it's only come out because he actually did the complete opposite in the book. Yeah, yeah, I know.

It's, you go back to the same thing of, you know, if you want privacy, don't write about it. Don't speak about it. But I don't know why he put it in his book. be critical, do you think? A little bit, yeah, if I'm honest, you know, it's something that he could have, if he had just put, oh, you know, about me losing my virginity and left it at that,

it would have been fine, because none would have been non-the-wiser. It was the fact that he added more to that story that everyone was like, ha-ha, that's you. And then it puts you in that position. And it must be, I mean, it's a range of emotions, but one of them, it must be quite intimidating to be on the receiving end

of suddenly knowing you're in this book, which is one of the biggest selling books, in history. Yeah. And everyone's reading it, and the media are getting more and more excited about who this person is. And you know it's you.

Yeah. So the clock is ticking to that knock on the door. It is, yeah. And it's like, it's one of those. At first you're in denial. You're like, no, I don't, you know, it's going to be fine. It'll pass over.

And like I say, the messages start coming in. Everyone's starting talking talking about it, which then pretty much doubles just what triples the people that know because then everyone's like, oh, I know who that was. And if, you know, people are asking, you know, family and friends,

oh, yeah, we know who it is. and then suddenly it's just the reality of this isn't going to go away. Forever this is going to flare up. Until they know who it is, they're going to be questioning people and yes, I could not have said anything, but then it's never going to stop.

This is a means to end. Do you think you should have had the manners, honestly, to just have let you know it was going to be a book? It could have given me heads up of like, you know, I'm going to put it in the book. Even if he didn't ask if it was okay, just at least give me an option of what to do about it. Yeah, yeah, pretty much.

Let's take another break. I want to come back. I want to get your view, I don't know what you think of the monarchy. of the royal family, of the late great queen, King Charles. And what do you think about Megan and Harry now, living this life over in California? What are you feeling about it?

Because Sasha Walpole, now we want to know your views. We'll be back after the break with more from my exclusive interview. Well, welcome back, Sasha Walpole, who took Prince Harry's virginity. You're still with me. Those words, if you hear, there must be weird, right? It is weird, yeah. What did your family make of it when it all blew up in the last, like, two weeks?

Um, they were quite calm, quite sort of, okay. Well, your mum knew. My mum knew. My dad didn't. It wasn't until I had a bit of a conversation with him. It became apparent he had no idea what I was on about. And then I spoke to mum and was a bit like, well, I don't think dad knows. And she's, I'll just check. And she's like, no, he didn't know. Which was really awkward. I mean, half for any dad, but then his daughter's all over the front page of the paper for taking Prince Harry's virginity. That's quite a moment to wake up to that. It is, yeah, especially when you know it's your daughter.

At first you're just thinking, oh, well, okay, and then when you realize it's someone you know and love, it's a bit different. Was he annoyed at Harry for not letting you know? I mean, they're massively supportive. Their main concern is I'm happy, I'm safe. They said they'll support me either way, whether I was to speak out or whether if I was to keep it a secret. Either way, they would try and do damage limitation

and just, you know, be there for me. Your kids are too young, they're only five and three. But how did your husband react to it or being public? I think he was as shocked as me. Obviously, he knew about it, So it was no great big secret, but if he didn't know, it would have been probably really awkward. But, yeah, I think the fact that he knew, he just kind of laughed and was like, oh, what are we going to do? It's been an amazing, you know, two years really for the monarchy, really, since I think Prince Philip died and then the queen died and we've now got the coronation coming.

Are you a big monarchist? I am, yeah. I do like a royal family, yeah. What do you make of what's been going on with them? I think it's sad. I think it's sad with any family, regardless. if you're a royal or whoever, as soon as there's a bit of conflict in between family, it's sad. It is sad. I'm lucky, I have a good family and I have, you know, my sister's amazing,

so we're all really close. So I can really imagine how they would feel. Especially for you, I mean, being in the pub with William and Harry, seeing them young and obviously very close then. Particularly, probably the closest they'd been was in the aftermath of their mother's death, to see them now completely having this rift and completely apart. That is really sad, I think.

It is, yeah. I mean, I mean, I've tried not to follow it too much, but I do feel that, yeah, like I say, with any family, any conflict is sad, because life's too short. Yeah. Life is too short. If you were in the pub with them now,

what would you say to them? Life's too short. You know, just swat your differences and, you know, just chat. But I probably would never be in the pub with the two of them again. You never know. You never know.

You never know. I mean, I think Harry owes you a drink. Yeah, just not a tray of shots. What do you think of Mega Markle is bright? I mean, you share a lot in common. We do, yeah. We both refer him as H. But yeah, I don't know.

I just... I mean, he's gone from a digger to a gold digger. Yeah, you can... Like that. I don't know. Like I said, I sit on the fence. I don't know the lady. I wish him all the best.

I wish him the happiest. Does he seem happy to you? He's not the boy that I remember. That's for sure. But again, I'm not in his shoes. I have no idea what's going on in his head. I haven't seen him for 21 years, but, you know, you make your own happiness. Do you have a view of Megan?

I don't really, no, because I don't know her, apart from obviously, you know, what you hear or whatever. But I'm one of the people that... Do you think he's traded up from you or down? Definitely down. I don't know. By the way, I agree. He shouldn't stay with someone like you. It might have been a lot happier, I think.

Yeah, it'd have been fun. Yeah, what do you think of King Charles with the coronation coming in everything? I think it's amazing. Yeah. Did you ever meet him in those days? Yeah, I did. Obviously, I can't really say too much about it. He did.

He was a lovely guy. Just to be clear, you signed an NDA. Have you worked as a groom at high court? Like everybody who works there, so that's why you can't talk about your employment. No. As a man, how did you find him? Did he bring good hands with him as our monarch? Yeah.

Yeah. Personally, I think he's a lovely guy. Yeah. And I think, same as William. I think, you know, you can. Asked for anyone nicer really, but that's my own view and they treated me really well. What happens to you now? You talked about earlier about going back under your rock. Is that what you want to do?

Yeah, I kind of think this is a means to an end. You know, I just, it's done, I don't have to worry. You know, when it all flares up, everyone knows. It's done, it's dusted. I can go back to live in my normal little life, driving my diggers, being happy, and not having to look over my shoulder and opening my door one day hundreds of cameras being there. Have that always been slightly in the back of your mind?

It has. I think, as any mother would know, when you have little kids, your protective side comes out, and I think to take control of this, you have to come out and control it, because otherwise one day you're just going to wake up and you're going to have no control, and you've got this damage limitation. Yes, and I think you've limited the damage extremely well, actually.

Yeah, hopefully. Because you come over just as a decent person. Yeah. Who didn't want any of this, had your privacy invaded, again, ironically, by the Prince of Privacy. We just saw a picture of you in the digger. Let's get that back up

because I just don't look at you and think this is someone who drives these monstrous diggers. You obviously love it. I do, I do. I mean, I worked as a room for quite a while and then obviously the hours and stuff and Dad has always done groundworks and he kind of said to me, well, I said, Tim, I didn't know what I want to do anymore

so he said, well, work for me until you know what you want to do. And back then, being a girl on site is a little bit strange. I can remember having to put my hair up and wear a coat. But I love it. I love it. And I think that, you know, it's a real opportunity for other females to maybe come out, come and do building work. It's brilliant.

It's a great place to be. What does it mean to you to be British? I said a little bit of the start there. To me, someone like you represents old-fashioned British values. You know, the fact that you had dignity and decency, you didn't sell your story, you didn't betray this great secret. You could do it at any moment. To me, that's kind of old-fashioned British values.

I mean, I was brought up with, you know, you work hard, you play hard. You know, you don't air your dirty laundry and, you know, you mind your own business. You don't get involved in something that you don't want to get involved in. I just think, yeah, I just, I think it's just where I've been brought up. You're quite looking forward to going back to relative anonymity again? I am, yes. Yep, I'm quite looking forward to getting back in my digger and hiding. Have you been back in that pub?

No. Are you going to? Probably not. No, probably not. You must have had other friends who knew nothing about this, who now picked up the son and seen you all over the front page. You've got, what? Yeah, I mean, it's something I rarely talked about.

So obviously, moving from where I lived with my parents to where I live now, a lot of my friends wouldn't even know that I knew Harry or had anything to do with the royal family back then. So for them, it was a great shock when they seen my picture that had flared up when they were trying to find the lady. And I was a little bit like, oh, yeah, that was many moons ago. And then suddenly now it's front page of everything. But do you know what?

It's like ripping a plaster off. Really? Yeah. You feel relieved in a way. It's done. I don't have to worry. I don't have to worry that people are going to turn up at my house and start asking me questions and I'm not ready for it.

You know, it's done. If Prince Harry's watching this, maybe in Montecito and his mansion, what would you say to him? I would say if you're about, talk up, let's have a drink, catch up, chill out, whatever. Just be happy. Do you even drinks flaming sambukas anymore? I don't know. Probably not.

Looks like he needs one. He does, yeah. What you think? Perhaps I should take him a tray of shots and just talk it over. I actually think he needs a tray of shots. And he needs a bit of old kind of West Country common sense. He does, yeah. Don't you think?

A bit of West Country happiness. I feel like he needs a bit of straight talking from someone who knew him in his old life. Yeah, I mean, like I said, I haven't seen him for 21 years, and I'd be more than happy to sit down and talk it out, but he probably wouldn't want to know. What advice would you give him? Just be happy. Life is too short.

Pick your family. Pick your battles. Yeah. Sometimes silence is better than nothing. But yeah, we'll see. Well, listen, it's been great to meet you. I didn't even know who you were a week ago. Now, we all know who you are.

No, I know. And you're going to have to live with that. It's a weird thing to have to live with. It is. But you've talked about it very, I think, with. you know, great modesty, and I completely understand why you've decided to talk out, because otherwise, it just happens anyway, right? It is. It's either you control it or it controls you.

And, you know, this way it leaves everyone else alone. They know who it is, job done. Sasha, back to your digger. Thank you. It's lovely to meet you. And you. And you. Thank you. Well, after the break, my reaction to Sasha's interview with my royal pack.

So don't go anywhere. Well, welcome back to Piersville and Unacentistence. So joining me now to discuss that extraordinary interview is Vanity Fair's Katie Nicholl, the son's Matt Wilkerson, and author and historian Dr. Tessa Dunlop. So Katie Nicol, I mean, it feels weird to be interviewing a woman about taking someone's virginity. Yes, I know.

So there were some good questions in their peers. So let's start with that, right? Because it is a weird interview to be doing at all. But I thought the reason that she has come forward made complete sense to me. And I also felt there was a kind of controlled anger, really, that her privacy, and this is so ironic, had been invaded by Harry

without even a thought really for the repercussions for her, for her having to be made public and so on. What did you make of it? Well, I think this is the first time when you got to give Harry some credit because for me, if he was going to choose anyone to lose his virginity with, what a cracker of a girl.

Because she kept her secret for all those years. She was loyal, she was discreet, she's been magnanimous, she's been generous. She didn't have a pop at him. She says what we're all thinking, which is, how can you be so hypocritical and invade someone else's privacy whilst invading your own? But she did it with such dignity. What a lovely girl.

So actually, I think I've got to take my hat off to Prince Harry because I don't think he could have chosen a better girl to have lost his virginity too. It is the text, but way to lose your virginity. Way better, incidentally, than all his ancestors. You've had to, vicarious means that they indulged in during World War I and so forth. Much better to have a hearty bonk in a field. I mean, I'm kind of wishing I could go back and redo my own narrative. We're all thinking that is consensual, friendship, bit of alcohol.

And as for cutting off the relationship, I mean, does anybody stay in contact with their first shagpies? Did you? For a while. I don't think it was quite as unceremonious as that, yeah. Really? But I know what you mean. It is spectacularly awkward for a young man the first time it happens, particularly if it's in that kind of situation.

And he probably was just too embarrassed. Matt probably just to ever think about it again. Well, he was the first to raise it, of course. Well, of course, until the book, yeah. It was so amazing that she was just sitting there on tabloid gold for 20-odd years, you know, and it's taken Harry to actually describe this liaison for her actually to come forward. Well, for Harry to cash in on it with his book, which has made him millions, to cash in on his virginity and invade the privacy of the woman he had it with.

I mean, it's other way of describing it. That's what he's done. It is breathtakingly hypocritically. Just from a media perspective. Yeah, no, it is. And I'll say, if we had got hold of that story 20 odd years ago, we would have had a deluge of legal letters from... Of course, he'd have been at first squealing about it.

I know you're in, defend him at all costs can. But even you must think it was a bit off. Yeah, I mean, there are bits of the book that hit some of the wrong notes, given the message he has historically tried to push. But lest we forget, the agency in this narrative, Harry didn't name her. He didn't name the pub. He didn't even describe her beyond being horsy.

And there was quite a lot of detail in there, too. I mean, enough to start a witch house. She was getting messages immediately from all the local people at the time, who all knew it was her. Right. And it's quite a tight set, normally a polo lot. They'd all sat on the secret for a very long time. So who is the third party that really pushed this downstream? It is.

And I'm sitting next to a tabloid editor. I'm beside a former one. And here we have a magazine journal. It's the media. It's the media. Oh, it's the media. Well, let's get in there before Prince Harry does. Because his default position is always, when in doubt, blame the media. We didn't say that the royal family are racist. The media said that.

And on this occasion... Harry has actually been the biggest source of royal news over the last 45 months. I haven't had to do any work. He's just sat there and... The biggest royal gossip in history has turned out to be the one who's bleated the most about privacy. the one who's breached the privacy of the most amount of people when it comes to the royals and all the royal circle. I was with somebody at the weekend

who's a good friend of some of the royal family and have been with them. And apparently all Harry's wider circle of old friends, they're just completely open-mouthed that for 20 years they, like Sasha, have got out of their way to protect him, never giving interviews, hiding stories, protecting him physically on nights,

getting him out of clubs and bars, and he's in trouble and so on. Only for him to then have all this stuff in the book. Talking about taking drugs with people, talking about getting this and that and the other, they're all open-mouthed at what they see, Tessa, this is not me saying it, I would anyway, but what they see is just complete hypocrisy.

I hear you, there's complexities. I think complete hypocrisy and the idea of trying to... I think it is complex, and I think what was charming about Sasha, and by the way, I think the whole nation is now thinking, why couldn't they have just done the old-fashioned thing and married it. Imagine. Hopefully will.

I know my mum will be watching a girl. She was a lovely girl. Why couldn't you marry someone like that? If only. But it's not binary. There isn't really a baddie or goody in this story. In the end, actually, I don't agree. I don't agree.

There's two consensual teenagers who had sex and both of them. Oh, in this particular story, right. And both of them are made a bit of money. In the end, it's actually, I think, rather charming. And I know that Sasha felt, because she's a decent stick, My goodness, there's earthquakes and wars and why are we talking about this? And again, I would have to say that's a media agenda.

But actually, it's a bit of light relief. And I refuse to say this is tawdry and uncomfortable. It's actually quite an upbeat story. In a weird way, it's kind of a vindication, a way of being modern and young and carefree. That's one way of calling a pub bonn. I mean, look, I think we're slightly over-egging the defensive souffle there. I think the key charge I would make about Harry with this.

book is that it goes against everything he himself has railed against the media about. And I tell you what he'll say to that because I put this to his camp. But what they say is, but this is on his terms. This is in his words. This is on his terms. This is his chance to answer back. It's that whole reclaiming the narrative story again. Actually, I think most people would think don't have a problem with it, but they might have

a problem with it. Had Sasha not been as generous as she had been, let's just say she had had a problem with it. Let's just say it had caused her big problems in her life. Then I think we'd be sitting here saying something very different. What if she'd never told her husband? I was, when you asked her that question? It was exactly what I was thinking. I mean, what if that had been the case?

Harry didn't know. No. He had no idea whether she told her husband and her. She said as much. He said no way, never know. It doesn't name her. It is an inglorious. No, listen, she had people knocking on her door, Tessa.

Okay, but she had people knocking on her door. And she could have said, I'm not the old woman. I was only 18. Do shut up. It was a quick snoblock. No, no. I mean, she could. Her name was being passed to the papers.

Okay. Let's be clear. You've named it, the papers. Well, what's? Of course, of course. Because Harry's argument is it was like half zoo, half Truman Show. We were discussing this. And actually, this one innocuous paragraph on his loss of virginity. It's not innocuous to say, I lost my virginity to this woman.

All of us are talking about a bong, a teenage bong. Okay, Matt, I want to bring in just the wider picture. We're heading towards the coronation. And putting aside the virginity story to one thing. I think it exposes the hypocrisy, but I also agree with Tesla that in a way, it doesn't really matter. Sasha seems completely well adjusted by it. She told everyone who needed to know, no one's dead. There are more important things in the world.

You just agree with me? Almost, almost. But let's talk about the wider story about Harry's. We head towards this coronation, which is coming up fast. I'm only a few weeks away from it. It's going to be a glorious celebration on one level, but we still don't know whether Harry and Megan are going to be sitting there amongst a family.

They've spent the last two years now trashing on the global stage. Well, it's the thing, it's got to be the Charles and Camilla show. It can't be the Harry and Megan circus. But if they're there, it will be. But I think they will need reassurances that Harry isn't going to do any more interviews between now and May the 6th. But what about afterwards with all the information?

This is a guy, remember, the thing that shocked me about the book was not all the trivial stuff at all. It was the fact that even at Prince Philip's funeral, he's revealing intensely private conversations with William and Charles to the world against their wishes. They didn't think about this. They'd have definitely said no.

And yet he expects to be at the coronation from what I've read, sitting amongst them again, having conversations. How would they trust him? I wouldn't trust a family member in that situation. It's interesting because I take up with Tesla on here because although Sasha came out has come out and told her story,

but there's plenty of other people like William, like Charles, like Cressida, his ex-girlfriend. I think he was speaking about other people in this book that haven't come out and spoken. Like William hasn't come out and defended himself have been able to defend himself against things. Or his wife against it.

I mean, and also, what about that poor matron? I mean, I really did feel for her, actually, Tess. Because we don't even know if that matron at his prep school is alive or dead or whether she's got family who were around who may have read this. But it was so hurtful the way he talked about that matron. And so, like, again, I come back to the hypocrisy. This is a guy portraying himself as this be-kind feminist, basically taking down a defenseless matron for her looks.

really, I mean, it was unpleasant, wasn't it? Yeah, it was unkind. It was unkind and it was unnecessary. Yeah, and, you know, we're sort of of seeing the new, the new look feminist Harry, and that is really quite incongruous. Is he going to be in the coronation or not, do you think? Look, I think he has to be.

I mean, I've said to you before, because I think there has to be that, I think there has to be that united front. As I said to you before, and I'll say it to Tess as well, just because Charles may feel obliged to invite him, because it's his son, and he feels guilty probably about what's gone on before with him and Camilla and Diana and so on. It's his coronation peers.

But hang on, but that's the key point. It's not just Charles's coronation. It's not a private family event. It's a publicly funded event. And actually, it's the people's coronation of their king. And that's where I have a problem. As one of the subjects, right, of this monoc... I actually don't want to see these two money grabbers anywhere near it.

But you are a subject with a very loud voice. You have a big platform. Well, coming from you, I might add, not exactly a shrinking violence. And there are plenty of other subjects in this what should be a broad-shouldered, impartial monarchy. You want to see them there. Not with a big role, but there. Yeah, but you know, as well as I do, if they turn up at this thing, it's all going to be about Meghan and Harry. It's going to leave the press.

Whereas if they're not there and they stay in California, actually, focus goes to... Now, Matt will agree with me here. It will be the press, won't it, that make Harry... Well, do you know what? I'll go back over the things then. So when he came back for the Duke of Edinburgh's funeral, we know he didn't behave himself very well because he had an argument with his father and his brother,

you know, just hours after the funeral. He came back for the Jubilee, he was put on the side, and he basically behaved himself and stayed away. And then at the funeral, he was on good behaviour. So if they can follow that blueprint, there may be a success. But Charles won't want to appear childish, he won't want to appear childish by...

No, but he does have to remember... You have to remember that actually it is the people's coronation of their... They're king, right? It's not a private family event. And I think a lot of British people will share my view that they shouldn't be there. Sorry, you trash your family that badly, that egregiously, and you trash the monarchy and you damage it. All the poll ratings for all the royals have been taken a heavy dent in America, which is a key place for the monarchy for its future, all taken a hit because of this book. And you've just answered your own question. If you want to reach outside of Britain's borders, they've got to be there. How is it going to play to America? we're not inviting the house of Montecito. It would make us look so mealy mad. The House of Montecito.

I just said that to annoy you. Do me. Well, you, all right, you've succeeded the House of Bloody Montecito. It's going to, listen, I think if he's not there, it will overshadow the event. And I think, you know, maybe there will be a neat compromise. Let's not forget it. I think it's Archie's fourth birthday.

On that day, it'd be a very neat solution for Megan to stay at home with the children, perhaps not be there. And I think it would perhaps be more palatable people if it's just now. We'll not even shadow it because it didn't overshadowed the Jubilee, the funeral. It didn't, yeah. No, I've got a feeling this time it could do because of the book of my Netflix series.

Hey, what I want to know is Sasha Walpole going to get a front roast? Well, you know what? I would invite Sasha Walpole. But also, can we just end on a positive note? What a wonderful lady, Sasha, Walpole. I love Sasha, you know, full president. What I call Salt of the Earth British. So thank you, Harry, for introducing us to touch. Exactly.

Harry chose well. Thank you, Pat. I appreciate it. And Matt, thank you, lucky stars. I didn't ask you, where are you lost your virginity? I was tempted. I was tempted. I did in the green. I'm still waiting.

We've had that conversation. Good to see. That's it for me. Next week there'll be a special guest or two of my seat. As I'm off interviewing criminals, I'm back on February the 20th from New York City with some big guests there. So whatever you're up to, keep it uncensored.

Good night.