Piers Morgan Uncensored - Piers Morgan Uncensored: Shilton, Lawrenson, Pietersen & Redknapp

Episode Date: November 21, 2022

On tonight's all-star episode of Piers Morgan Uncensored, Piers debates with Harry Redknapp, Peter Shilton and Mark Lawrenson on whether virtue-signalling should be left out of the Qatar World Cup. Piers is joined by cricketing legend Kevin Pietersen to talk about his Cristiano Ronaldo exclusive and the latest from Qatar. Piers hosts a virtual audience. Watch Piers Morgan Uncensored at 8 pm on TalkTV on Sky 526, Virgin Media 606, Freeview 237 and Freesat 217. Listen on DAB+ and the app.  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Tonight, I'll Pittsburgh and Arkansas. The World Cup in guitar begins with a thumping England victory and more predictable rouse about politics. Can we please, for the love of God, just focus on the football? My all-star starting lineup features Peter Shilton, Mark Lawrensen and Kevin Peterson. Plus, I speak what I want and I'm bulletproof. Cristiano Ronaldo defiantly responds to the fallout from our interview. As you write to speak out, we'll debate that with the capacity crowd.

At tonight's Morgan Arena. No virtue signaling allowed. From London, this is Piers Morgan Uncensored. Well, good evening from London, and welcome to Piers Morgan Unsensored. The World Cup is finally underway, the biggest event in world sport, the greatest show on earth. And if you look very closely, really, very, very closely, you might even see a bit of football. Politics is predictably overshadowed sport in the first 24 hours of the tournament. The England players today had the best possible response to all the virtue signaling.

They got on with the game and got on with it very well. Sure. And it's in from Dillinger. He's looking for the Gwai. He gets it down to Saka. Looking for Stirling. And Saka keeps on going himself. Oh, why wouldn't it?

First touch. There's the second. There's the next. Wilson, in on goal. Playing in Greelish. Well, all the build up to that thumping win against Iran was dominated by the FAA's humiliating U-turn on plans for camp.

in Harry Kane to wear a rainbow unbacked. The plan protest against Qatar's non-existent gay rights quickly buckled under threats of yellow cards and possible suspensions. Wales also backed down too. England players did take the knee, but there was no gesture from England

in support of thousands of Iranians risking their lives to demand women's rights at home. And that's my problem with all this virtue signalling. Once you start, where do you stop? And if you're going to do it, then do it. The BBC has made their own decisions about this. We left to Alex Scott, a pundit to wear the rainbow ironband on air today.

Good for her. But last night, after the BBC totally snubbed the opening ceremony, Gary Lennox said this. From accusations of corruption in the bidding process to the treatment of migrant workers who built the stadiums where many lost their lives. Homosexuality is illegal here. Women's rights and freedom of expression are in the spotlight.

But where's a consistency? Britain's broadcasters had no problem. showing the massive opening ceremony at the Russia World Cup, for example, attended by murderous Putin himself, nor to the BBC film and lead to censor the opening ceremony at the Beijing Winter Olympics just nine months ago, even as China is accused of a genocide against the Uyghur Muslims. For an example of real courage and a protest that might actually make a difference,

take a look at the Iran players this afternoon, refusing to sing their national anthem. Well, that to me is what real courage looks like. They did that quite deliberately to show that. support for the women of Iran back home who are being oppressed and persecuted and killed. No virtue signaling, no empty gestures, no armbands, just silence and booze from their supporters in support of that silence. That's what I call meaningful protest, not capitulating on your supposed moral stance because somebody threatens to wave a yellow card at you. I generally think

fans are pretty fed up with all the politics now at this World Cup. There's no doubt that FIFA's decision to take it to Qatar was. scandalous as it was to give it to Russia at the same time. That decision was made 12 years ago. Today's massive England win, I hope, will mark a turning point, not just for the England team's stuttering form, and also for the tournament itself. This is the World Cup. Can we please enjoy the football? Well, joining me now as former England goalkeeper who played at three World Cups, Peter Shilman. It's also championing the World Cup's gamble or where's a campaign. Alongside him, his former Liverpool and Ireland international Mark Lawrence, and former football manager

Harry Rednepp, a veritable trilogy of football legends before me. Before I get into this debate, I want to play a clip. This is from Roy Keane today on ITV about the armband Rao, in which he made his normal forthright views. The players could have done it for the first game. I took the punishment, whatever that might be. Kane, obviously, you're risking saying if he's going to get a yellow card, if that was going to be the punishment.

But that would have been a great statement. Do it for the first game. If you get you a yellow card, what a message is that would have been from Kain? cane or bail, take your medicine and then the next game you move on. You don't wear it because obviously again you'd want to be getting suspended. But I think it was a big mistake. I think both players, particularly

obviously that we're talking about Wales and England here, should have stuck to their guns and done it. Whatever pressure from outside and from their own associations have the belief. If that's what you believe then go with it. I've got to say, I completely agree with him. Let's start with you, Mark. I mean,

they've got themselves into a hell of a mess here, haven't they, the F.A. If you're If you're going to virtue signal, for one of a better phrase, if you're going to show your virtue for something on a global stage, then just do it. Don't say you're going to do it as a stand, and that's why you're not boycotting it, and then bottle it. Well, it ended up being a come-down. But the other thing as well is, and you mentioned this about the Iranian players, look, they could well go home and end up in prison. Or dead. Or absolutely, certainly, 100% dead. I mean, that is a statement in itself. So it's just a strange one. I mean,

It's just a small badge, I say, it means a lot, but a small badge on your arm, one love, wear it. So you get a yellow card. You know what, FIFA are like? FIFA would have changed minds, wouldn't they? If everybody... Well, fever would be... I've got to say,

Fever had been absolutely pathetic in this tournament. Well, Infantino's speech of the day was just a year. I mean, it's just rambling nonsense and insulting and all the rest of it. Unlike this program. Thank you. Certainly not a knife. Peter, what are you making this? Did you ever do any protest when you were...

World Cup player for England? No, not at all. Personally, I think all the protests should be done before the tournament. You know, I think it's the tournament, the World Cup is the greatest football show that we have. And I think, you know, it's getting sidestepped a little bit with protests of this and protests of that. I just think, look, let's do the protesting before. And when we get on the football pitch, let's concentrate on the football. You know, I don't think players should be asked to, you know, to do the things we're asking them to do, you know. The problem is I think some of the players want to do it. They've all got quite moral, you know, moral and political in the last few years.

I think they see an upside to leading issues. We don't want football to become political. Right. I just don't. I think football is football, politics of politics. The problem was that Qatar was given the World Cup in the first place because FIFA should have known that there was going to be a lot of protesting against certain things.

Have you said that, look, on that point, I mean, Mark, I feel quite strongly about this. There's never been a World Cup in the Middle East, which is a fantastic football-loving continent, isn't it? I mean, we know so many great countries that love their football. They've never had a World Cup. They're perfectly entitled to have one.

They've got issues with some of their laws and cultures which we find... Massive issues. Which we find objectionable. Fine. But what happens at the next World Cup, which is going to be in America and Mexico and Canada? You don't think Mexico has issues we should be concerned about. America has draconian laws about abortion, for example. It has laws about gun rights, which we find objectionable over here in the UK. Are we going to

have the same pontificating there, the same protest? Are we going to have monologues from presenters? No, I don't think it'll be as bad. No, but why shouldn't it be? Well, I mean, the thing is with this is that for some reason, it's like we're saying that the Qataris are just, you know, are they lower than us? Because, you know, the Arab states, which obviously no, but I think the problem is intertwined insofar as is we think about the organisation, you know, such a small country, all those kind of things.

The other thing is well as we all know that, you know, FIFA's corrupt anyway. Well, that's the problem. Has been for years and years and years. And until you sort them out, it's a waste of time. What about the BBC here being, it seems to me, morally selective. They're happy to play on up the ceremony at the Russia World Cup. You know, they do it at China.

but they don't do it here. Strange. Strange decision. Now, I would imagine, and I wouldn't know, but I would imagine that would have come from the very, very top of the BBC. But it's a very deliberate decision. If you are living in the Middle East, if you're an Arab football fan, and you're watching the discrepancy between the way

you're being treated on these things compared to Russia and China, you're not going to be very happy about it. We wouldn't be. You'd be raving mad. Right. I mean, we shouldn't be going down this road, really. I mean, we should be talking about England's

great win. They'd be great, won't they? And not Harry Kane wearing an armband. I mean, like I said, you know, protesting is fine. You know, do it before the tournament, get it out the way. But once you get on that pitch, you know, it's level playing field. Well, let me talk to Harry Rednapp. Harry, what do you make of all this? They've got themselves into a right dog's dinner, it seems to me. Absolutely, peers. And like the lads are saying, like Peter just said,

there. I think we're all getting it's non-stop the World Cup really is all we hear about it's not the football it's about do we take the knee do we wear the arm band it's just non-stop we look back a few years we got stopped from wearing a poppy

on our shirt you know England weren't allowed to wear the poppy around you know and we stand for it I think we end up did we wear it on our short or white shorts or so there was a change of whatever.

It's just, you know, I don't know, we've gone out there to play this World Cup. There's a million problems going on. Everything's, you know, not right what they're up to, you know, and something has to be done about it, obviously. If we feel that strong,

then Harry Kane would say we're going to, we should have world the arm band. I think as Roy Keen said, take the yellow card today and get on with it. Garraf Bell, take the yellow card. If you bleed that strongly, Well, you know what, if we're really that morally outraged, don't go, right? You know, people have boycotting World Cup, say boycott Olympics.

If you feel that strongly. Absolutely. But I would say to England fans who get on their high horse about Qatar, we did illegally invade Iraq, for example, only a few years ago, right, we sparked two decades of ISIS terrorism with our illegal invasion of that country. There are lots of people in the Middle East have a pretty dim view of one. what we did. And we've never been held accountable.

No one's ever boycotted England and our sporting events because of it. And I think if you are living in the Middle East looking at that, again, you think double standards. But Harry, let me turn to happier things. England looked terrific today. And I was particularly pleased

that it looks like Arsenal are going to win the World Cup through Mikaiosaka. They, listen, when you look at our squad peers, you look at the lads who came off the bench today. That's what I thought, yeah. Fantastic players. And you suddenly, you're looking at, I watched a Holland team, they couldn't live with us. I mean, you look at their players.

You know, they've got two or three fantastic players, you know, Van Dyke won. A couple of great players. But after that, they've got a lot of average players who have been to England and never cracked it and are really not good enough to play at the top level here. We've got a real opportunity, I think. You know, I think we've got some incredible players, especially forward Bellingham. What a young player, 19 years of age. Saka looks fantastic.

even the subs have come off the bench today. Rashford came off the bench and scored a great goal. We scored such good goals as well. You're all going overboard, though, aren't you? Yeah, Fulgun's an amazing. I've got it wrong. Listen, so you go into the game, right? Oh, they were shocking.

Yeah, you expect England to win, yeah? Do you expect them to score six? No? Do you expect them to consider a couple of goals? No. So I think with England, you are where you are. Peter, you've been in a World Cup three times. But I still think we've got a good group of players. players here.

I agree. I agree. Let me just ask Peter Shorten. I mean, when you win your first game like that, I mean, I remember lots of world cuts where we've got off to a rope you start when we're expected to win. When you have a thumping win like that and you look so good, it does send a message to everybody else. I've got American friends who obviously the big game on Friday, US v England, and they're worried.

They're looking at us to go, wow, you look good. Yeah, well, that's a good thing to put a bit of fear into people. But I think it was the way we played and the quality of the goals. It wasn't that we were given a lot of the goals. We actually, it was great moves, great football, and that was good. I mean, but, you know, you've just got to put that to the back in mind because the game against the USA could be totally different, you know. USA looked good tonight against Wales from the bit.

My biggest problem with the England team is just at the back. You know, I think we've not looked solid. I mean, we've let in two goals again. I know we scored six. That would just be my fear. But the creative players, Bellingham looks, you know, he looks colossal, doesn't he? I think we're more Sacker in this room. I think one of us is.

I want to bring in a special Morgan Arena tonight. This is the first time we've done this. A live audience of real football fans joining us. There they all are. I won't get to all of you, but you're all part of it, obviously. I want to start with Mark Dizzley. Now, Mark, where are you? Okay, I see you.

Now, Mark, you're not going to watch the World Cup at all. Why? Honestly not, I think. Hang on, we can't hear, Mark. As much as people want to say now. Mark, start again. We couldn't hear you. He's been silenced.

Yeah, I think I'm a bit more honest than to watch the World Cup, which is completely trashed by contracts, corruption. You can't ignore 6,500 people buried under the stadiums they're playing in, and that's just a simple fact. But they choose to, and they say,

we have to do it for contractual reasons. I was asked to comment about the arm Now, the armband is a very simple thing. It was a simple protest, which is globally supported, and he would have just worn an arm bad. And so what? It wouldn't have changed anything, but they would have made their feelings known like the Iranians did. And yeah, they will probably disappear for it. Right.

But what he should have done was to have said... Right, on the migrant workers, what I would say on that is, there's a lot of dispute about exactly how many have died. It's clearly reprehensible if even one has. but the figure of 6,500 may include a lot of people who just died anyway in that 10-year process, but not from the conditions they were working in. We don't actually know the exact number. That's not to hide it or to defend any of it.

Clearly, a lot of people have died in the process of putting on this World Cup. However, the number is disputed, and we don't actually know, which is part of the problem. Let me bring in now Flynn Williamson. Sorry, make your point, Mark, quickly. The problem is, if they want to come up with a more credible number of people that have died, then do so. Yeah. But to say most of them have died because of heart attacks.

Yeah. No, I agree. It stresses his credulity. I agree with you. Let me bring in Slim Williamson. You think there's a lot of hypocrisy here, Slim. Yeah, there's definitely a lot of hypocrisy going on. I mean, which country is not without issues at the moment, you know, I mean, ourselves included.

So if you're going to speak on, then you have to speak on everyone else's issues and then if you're not going to have a World Cup in Qatar, then where are you going to have a World Cup? Well, that's my problem. Where is actually clean enough? Where is morally pure enough? Right? Because one of the things about Qatar is that they, it's illegal to be gay in Qatar. It's illegal to be gay in eight of the 32 countries left in the World Cup, right? Including most of Africa. So you can never have a World Cup in Africa, right? So where do you have it? Do you have it in America? I've just explained they've got issues with their laws there. Mexico has huge problems with human rights. I just don't know, once you put the moral halo on, I'm not sure where it stops that is pure enough to satisfy the critics. Yeah, I agree 100% with you. And I feel like us in this country, we're very, we pick what we want to be outraged at.

So, yeah, we want to be outraged at, you know, Qatar, but then there'll be something else, and we all just turn a blind eye to that. So, you know, it stinks very much of hypocrisy to me for a lot of people. Yeah, I'm with you. I want to bring in Zach Bookbinder. think that Qatar has the right to ban the one love unbans? Tell me why.

Well, Hugo Lurice, he made a great point, I thought, where players coming into their country should respect their laws. And I think it's the same with the alcohol. If they don't want to provide alcohol, that's not a problem. And if they're against, obviously, the LGBTQ community,

I think it's just right to respect their laws, that's what I believe. Yeah, and I think on the beer point, I mean, it's not like we exactly showered ourselves in glory at the Eurofinals, is it? When I was there, it was absolutely disgusting, a bunch of coax-snorting, boozewelling, brawling imbeciles with no tickets,

spreading COVID and beating everyone up and can get their hands on. That's not the greatest advert of having beer around stadiums. So, sorry, to any England fans offended by that, but I was there, and it was horrible. That was just the whigs, though, on it? Just finally, for this part of the fan zone, as we're calling it, Harry Simu, there shouldn't be an issue with England

wearing the armbands, you don't think, but you have got mixed feelings about it. Tell me why. I guess for me, I think the problem really is with FIFA. I think what they've done is they've put the teams in a position whereby they're at a sporting disadvantage if they wear it. The yellow card thing can have a knock-on effect and have an impact later on in the tournament.

I know people have said Roy Keene included that you should just wear it and get on with it and sort of take the consequences. And I get that a protest without consequences not as powerful. So I totally understand that. But I think instead of sort of looking at the two teams and the decisions they've taken,

I think we should be looking at the fact that FIFA have made a move to put these two sides at a sporting disadvantage if they actually follow through with this. And that's the problem rather than sort of England or Wales in moment. Well, as we've been talking, a US journalist says he was briefly detained on Monday trying to enter a World Cup stadium in Qatar

while wearing a rainbow shirt. Grant Ward, a former Sports Illustrated journalist, said he was denied entry, and he was asked to take his shirt off. So there's a lot of stuff going on here. A lot of attempts to suppress the virtue signaling. We'll discuss more of this later on, but also discuss, of course, my interview with Cristiana Ronaldo,

which has, well, to put it mildly, it's got everybody going. And it's probably got Cristiana Ronaldo going from Manchester United. So we're going to debate after break, including a debate with Kevin Peterson, who, of course, was the England, Triggerdon, who was drummed out of the England team in not for similar circumstances where

respect played a major part, I think, in that decision making. We'll talk to Kevin next. Well, welcome back to Pizsbogne on Censored. A staggering 60 million people have now viewed my interview with Cristiano Ronaldo online. 15 million of I watched the whole thing. 45 million have watched all the clips. Extraordinary numbers, an extraordinary iconic sportsman who today passed 500 million followers on Instagram.

To put it in context, the next highest person. and follow on Instagram is Lionel Messi, his great rival, 124 million fewer followers. So he's got 25% more followers on Instagram than anyone else alive, quite extraordinary. Well, the explosive interview touched on Ronaldo's family and the ill treatment he feels he suffered at the hands of Manchester United.

Let's remind you of some of the highlights from the interview. Trying to force you out, you think. Not only the coach, but the other two or three guys they are around the club. And the senior executive level? Yes, that I felt betrayed. I don't know what's going on, but since the Sare-Lex-Fargas and left, I saw not evolution in the club. The progress was zero.

The glazes, they don't care about the club. The empathy with the coach is not good. I'm honest. You don't have a good relationship with it? I'm not mean good relationship. Do you think he respects you? I think you don't respect the way I should deserve. Well, you must have been worried sick.

I mean, you lost your baby son and now your baby daughters in hospital. Exactly. Kind of that didn't believe that something going wrong, which is make me feel bad. Really? Yes, I didn't believe you. They believe you, but in the same way they are there. Peace ever going to change the health of my family for the football. Never.

Well, extraordinary stuff, and it's made headlines, of course, around the entire world. world. I've never had so many calls and texts and messages and emails asking for interviews or just commenting. This morning in his first public appearance since the interview, Cristiano said he won't be silenced. In my life, the best timing is always my timing. Obviously, on your side, it's easy to give an opinion. It's easy to write many times the truth, many lies about me. The best timing is always my timing. Well, we can all have our view about how Cristiano Ronaldo might be feeling. why he did this, but sometimes the best people to ask are those who've been in the quadrant of high-level sport. Kevin Peterson is, for me, the best England batsman of his generation,

but his international career for England was cut short after high-profile fallout with his employees, the ECB. And he joins me now. Kevin, great to see it. When you watched it, what did you make of Ronaldo's mindset? Why he did this, what may have been behind it? I think he's at the end of his tether. I think if you read the reports and you see why he's been in the news and how many times he's been in the news for all the wrong reasons by him but all the right reasons by clearly his employees and these things happen to people for reasons that they don't want and it's when i was watching i mean i just got back from dubai yesterday and i got up every morning and i just watched it i was one of your 15 million

then watched the full interview i didn't watch you i watched him peers and and It was incredibly enlightening. It was incredibly enlightening because you can sort of see a similar position to what I had. Now, not for any stretch of the imagination. Am I sitting here saying that I'm as famous as Christiana Norelli. Because it's absolutely not true. You just talked about how famous he is. But what you could see is that actually he's very unhappy in a place that he should be happy.

And feels disrespect. Well, forget disrespect. I hate the word disrespect. There are two places when you are in a cauldron and you are. top athlete, and you're right at the top of your game, where you should feel happy, you should feel comfortable, and you should be able to do whatever you want because that's where you should be free.

That's at home with your family. And the second place is at the training ground. You can see he's unhappy at the training ground. Now, I know that Carrington, and I think it's called Carrington, where Mannionada trains, their facility isn't up to scratch. No. Have a look at his social media, and look where he trains. Look how he practices.

to be the best, you have to live the best life. And to be the best, you have to continually need to grow. And we all talk about being that high-level athlete, it's that extra 1%. What is it like? I remember this with you when you were going through your problems with England. We spoke a lot over that time. And the thing that really incensed you was all this drip, drip, drip of stuff that was coming out about you. Most of which I knew wasn't true, because you were telling me the reality.

Christiana, the same thing. It's a constant drip, drip, drip of negative stories about him. 95% of which he says are completely untrue. I've been talking to him regularly for six months through this process, and I know when I fact-checked these things in real time, he said this is not true, it's not true, it's not true, or one is true or whatever.

It's the constant overriding negativity. Well, you know you've been editor of newspapers, you've been in the media, there are stories that get drip-fed to journalists about certain people who want to knife them. Who want to knife certain athletes. And one thing I hate is that tall puppy syndrome. I mean, why can't he be celebrated here?

I mean, I was in Dubai now, got back yesterday, and no one can believe how this country are going after, Cristiano Renov. They cannot believe it. The people in the airports, in the hotels, everybody. Because he's a god over there. Why on earth are people going at him? I mean, he is such a proven performer.

But you can see his frustration, and you can identify the issues. He goes back to a facility that's not up to scratch. He goes to a facility where he wants to be the best, where he wants to maintain standards. You say you don't like the word disreservation. I mean, he used that a lot because he feels that if you're not respected for what you've achieved in the game. And he still believes he had a lot to offer.

He's super fit, as you know. You were very fit, actually, when you left the England. You could have played for another five, six years. He thinks he's got another two or three years at least. He felt there was just a disrespect from everyone there that had decision-making power. Yeah, well, I think that he is at that level where he commands respect because of what he's achieved in the game. I do. I agree with you.

I think he's the greatest footballer that's played the game. he turns the needle. That's what he does. And there's a reason why he's still making headlines four or five days after the interview because of who he is. There's not many athletes in the world that can do that.

And so there's a reason also why he's in that position because of the way that he practices, because of the way that he lives his life, because of the sacrifices that he's had to make as an individual to achieve what he's achieved. You understand that. I know that for all your obvious many fools, Not as many of you.

But for all your many faults, everyone... We've got one big fault. We've chosen you. But even if your colleagues had a problem with you personally or whatever, they all said the same thing. You were the first and last out of training. Ronaldo the same. You never hear anything about his training regime. He's unbelievably self-driven.

And you had that as well whilst having this polarising reputation of that. Do you relate to him on that level? I think it's those one percenters. And to be the best, you have to tick every single box. And I'll go back to it. You have to be happy at home where he is, but where he also hasn't been over the last six months.

Well, the two things came together because he lost his baby son. As a parent, you're only as happy as your unhappiest child. Right. And I sympathize. He went through total tragedy. Exactly right. Exactly right. And you know what?

If what he said is true about them not believing, what's been happening with his family, and I can't say whether it's true or not. He says it is true. That's almost unforgivable. Because he's a human at the end of the day. Yes, he's super famous. Yes, he's worth hundreds of millions of dollars.

He's achieved that because he's amazing at what he does. He plays the biggest game in the sport. What did you think of the particular point you made on the field when Ten Haag, the new coach, doesn't bring him on against Manchester City and says he did so out of respect. And then the next game, they're winning easily against Topham, and he wants to bring him on with three minutes to go.

Completely contradicting. What he'd said the week before? I think, and my football knowledge isn't amazing, but I think there was a quote from Ten Haag talking about the fact that he was the fourth in line to Captain United, a couple of days or a couple of games after his issue where he walked off the field.

It's something that even if you think it as a coach, you don't say it in public. And that's what I can't understand. Now, that's why I actually agree with everything that Cristiano has said. said, purely based on the fact that no coach, if he cares about his player, would do that. I agree. Marino, why was Marino amazing?

Why did Lampart, Terry, Dragba, all these guys? I mean, I did all my rehab for my Achilles at Cobham, at Chelsea's training ground. Why did they love Marino? If the team had a bad game, Marino made the game about himself. Ferguson was the same. Venger was the same. All the great managers, I think, protect their players. You've got to protect your players.

KP, stay here. I'm going to come back and get more from you. and from my virtual audience all watching here. Some shaking their heads in derision. Others nodding, agreeing. This is certainly dividing people. So we'll debate the Ronaldo interview and the fallout after the break. Well, welcome back to Pierce, Morgan Uncensored.

Before the break, we hear from cricket legend Kevin Peterson and sympathy for Cristiano Ronaldo's position at Manchester United. KB is still with me, as is former Liverpool legend Mark Lawrenson, along with Chief Sports Reporter for the Times, Martin Ziegler. So, Martin, let me go to you. You're not as supportive of Christiana Ronaldo. fact quite the opposite. Why? Well, I mean, this isn't about your great scoop here, which was obviously an excellent get.

But it's the reason why Cristiano Ronaldo did this and what's happened as a result. And I believe he's lost, tarnished his legacy with the Manchester United supporters. This was somebody who was a hero for many, many years and people absolutely loved him, all the Manchester United fans. a lot of people, a lot of the fans, I think, are really, really unhappy. He talked about betrayal. I think they feel betrayed. Well, they might, but football fans are very, very fickle, aren't they? Because they were all sucking up to Ronaldo when he scored 24 goals last season

and was banging in hat-tricks and was player of the season and so on. You know, they're all chanting Viva Ronaldo. He's only started four games this season, and they've already gotten his back. And they've done it because the media's been very negative. And he believes a lot of that's been driven by people at the club who have a problem with him. So I think these things can be, you know, the fans can be sold in line

about a player. I saw this Arsenal with a Bamiyan, which I thought he was also treated very unfairly. They can buy into a narrative which may not be true. And I think that may have happened with Ronaldo. Depends what you want from your, I think, when your career ends

and when you look back, do you want to think, the club that made me, do I want to look back on that with with dignity and with self-respect. And I don't think you can now. I can understand his frustration. Roy Keane is still a United legend.

He did exactly the same thing as Ronaldo. He just did it on Man United TV. I mean, there's no difference to me about what he did. And you talk about tarnishing legends. I mean, Maradonna, you know, you take all the drugs and the mafia links and all that kind of stuff. None of that cared to his legacy. And what's Ronaldo done that's so bad?

He's incredibly fit. He works hard. he's committed, he eats well, he doesn't really drink much. You know, he's in many ways, he's a perfect role model. He's just finally decided to have his say given that everybody else has had their say about him for the last six months and been blaming him for all United's problems.

I don't really have a problem with that. That's the key. What is he done? What is he done? This is somebody... What is somebody who's earning a huge amount of money, a huge amount of money, millions of pounds. Yeah, but you're Martin,

You can't go back on money. You can't go back on money. If he wants to, if... No, well, no, obviously, if he feels frustrated and he's not getting a fair show, well, go to Manchester Night and say, you know, I will... You do not have to pay me for the rest of my contract.

I'm worth $500 million. I really don't think it's about money. I mean, let's bring him... I don't think money is the issue here. He's got half a billion. Pierce, I think we're missing the point here. That this is a story. about a footballer who's been a brilliant footballer.

I think we'd all agree with that. Absolutely, totally. But he's dealing with the fact that he's not got the same strengths that he's had. He can't do the same things that he's had. And consequently, in his head, he still feels that he can. But he can't. He admitted that in my interview. He's not the same as he was.

But what he said was, he did score 24 goals last season. Six in the Chamberlain. He scored one more Premier League goal than Harry Kane, who is lauded as one of the best strikers in the world. So he may have diminished the powers by his own standards. But actually, by the standards of the Premier League last season, he was right up there with the best. Last season.

Last season. Four months ago. But this scene's another season. But when you're 37, you know, eventually, it's like you stop. But add what's happened to him off the field. Add the fact that he lost a child. And then his daughter that survived that tragedy had a weakened hospital.

He was incredibly worried about that. That's why he didn't go back to preseason. Put all that together. This is all happening in the space. Right, yeah, yeah. Go on, but why, so, right, so you're Ten Hag, you're the manager, right? And with all his capabilities that Ronaldo had or has, whichever way you want to look at it, why wouldn't you play him?

This guy sees him every single day in training, and he's made this decision, which is you're not going to play. Right. But if you're not going to play him, still treat him with respect and have sympathy for him and look after him. Treat him like the legend that he is. Kevin, I get that. Don't drip feed to the media because that's what we hate.

What we hate is waking up in the morning and seeing constant lies. And I don't buy the theory about he's on this amount of money. There's a reason why he's on that amount of money. Because he has got nothing to do with it. He is the greatest footballer that's played the game. No, he's not. Messia is. But there you go back to Martin. You'll be listening patiently, Martin.

I genuinely don't think the money has gotten to do with Ronaldo's thing. Because he's got so much of it. I think he's quite happy not to get any more money from United. I think what he wants, he wants respect, and he wants to go somewhere where he feels he'll get properly valued. And his assessment of his abilities right now is that he's lost none of his ability from last season. He's just not been given the same chances.

Well, he talks a lot about respect, doesn't he? But I don't think Cristiano Ronaldo is treating people with respect. I think that he believes he should start, you know, he won't come off the subsbench because he thinks it's, it's beneath his dignity. He leaves a match early. That sort of behaviour is not the behaviour of the best player in the world.

He apologised for that. He apologised that in the interview. And he apologised with teammates. But he didn't apologise to Ten Haag because the week before, Ten Haag hadn't brought him on because he said he respected him too much. And then the next week he wants to bring him on with three minutes left when they're winning two-nil.

Why is that not disrespectful? If you yourself had said you didn't bring him on the week before out of respect. Well, I just think, You've got to rise above this as a player. You can't have your own sort of, seems to me a sort of petty squabble about whether you're coming on. Just do it for the team.

Don't think about yourself all the time. I know he's had really awful personal problems. And absolutely people should be putting an arm around in and helping him. But when it comes to those moments on the field of player, just do it for the team. Where do you think he goes, Pierce? I think he goes to another big club. I think he'll have a good World Cup.

Do you really? I think he's going to have a good World Cup and surprise you. Champions League? I do. I absolutely think you'll be a championship team. Yeah. Okay.

How much you want? Stamford Bridges just down the road. I bet you, Ronaldo's weekly salary, he goes to a Champions League team. No, you're all right. Breaking news, Gareth Bale, has equalised for Wales against Team US,

the 82nd minute with a penalty. It's a good news there. Let's go back to the Morgan Arena. I want to bring in Theo Delaney. You think Cristiano has an overinflated sense of his own importance. Why? Well, it's clear, isn't it?

It's a team game. Football's full of players who think they should be in the team or think they shouldn't be taken off or brought on or benched or whatever. And he thinks that he shouldn't be playing under those conditions. He thinks he should be treated specially. And I understand why. Like you say, it's got more social media followers than anyone else on earth. You know, he's got more money than any other footballer,

probably possibly barring mess. He's rightly admired for being one of the greatest players of all time. But at the end of the day, it's a team game. And the manager has to make those decisions. All the other players who are struggling with these things week in, week out, and they're in every club. I think to be fair to Christiana Ronaldo, they don't have the same pressures or responsibilities

that come with being the goat. Jonathan Kidd. Let me bring in Jonathan Kidd. You think Ten Haag, the manager, should have communicated better with Ronaldo. Yeah, well, I think he's been forced. to engineer this move now, hasn't he, Ronaldo, because he should really be playing

every game. He's scored 24 the year before. Obviously, we don't know what's going on on the training ground, but I think you should build the team around Ronaldo in the same way that Chelsea had managed with Tiago Silver to keep him going, because he's, even though he's 37, he's fitness personified.

And I think that, I think they should be making a place for Ronaldo. He's one of the best footballers in the world. Yeah. And I just don't get this, and I can see why I think he's engineered this move. I completely agree with that. The team of champions league. Ten Haug sees him every day in training.

He does, yeah. Right, so don't you think Ten Hogg's just got the job at Manchester? It depends how good you think Ten Haag is. Well, wait a minute. He's a very unproven manager, never won anything outside of Holland. So far. Right. But if at the end of the season, for example, without Ronaldo, United end up six or seventh, and they haven't won the Europa League...

Then you're judging. But what I'm saying is, so therefore, right, so Ten Haug has got to win games. If he thought that Ronaldo could play every week and score every week at win games, he'd play him. You know what if I'd say him? No, no, you know what you'd do if you're Ten Hog? You lie to the media

and keep telling the media how much you love him and how you'll start him. You protect him. That is what you do to players of his quality. You look after him, you protect him, you put your arm around him and you love him. Let me bring in Dave Seeger. You think, Cristiano thinks he's bigger than the club.

I mean, he's got, I think, 20 times as many Instagram followers as Manchester United. Yeah, but why does that matter? I'm just saying. Some players actually are bigger than clubs, right? I mean, Ronaldo is the biggest football star in the world. After Messi. I just think, I think, to the honest view, Piers, I think, and the rest of the panel,

I think the one thing we haven't discussed at all, which I think is the most important thing is, it's about the football. And it's about which style of football the manager wants to play. Now, last year, when he was signed by Solskar, there was a certain style of football. Maybe Solskar believed that Ronaldo fitted to that style. Ten Haug wants to play a different style of football.

He wants to play high-pressing, very, very energetic football. And Ronaldo is 67. It's as simple as that. 67, he's not that old. It looks high for manager changes. It looks very good for 67. I can tell you that. Good point that, Dave.

Final words, chance. Every time of manager changes, you're liable to have a change of style. They should have him go in the summer then. You have to accept it. Final word to you guys. What do you think happens with Ronaldo now, Mark? It goes. Where to?

No one in the Champions League It might go to Saudi To your mate in Saudi He's already turned down $350 million Can you imagine? How many? $350 million euros To get joint salary

I know from the guy who made the offer Would you? Would you? Would you turn down $3.5 million? Not for the money on here. Why would you offer him 350 million pounds for goodness sake? Because actually in Saudi Arabia they think he's like a sporting god

And he would transform Saudi Arabia football Have you seen Saudi Arabia football? Yeah, I don't think he'd enjoy playing a that level. He wants to play top level. I admire the hunger of a guy with half a billion in the bank, who's 37 years old, who still wants to kick it at the highest level. Listen, I get it, but I'm afraid at that level, no. No more. Got to leave it there. Guys, thank you. Kevin. Mark, great to see it. And thank you to Martin. Really appreciate it. Next, I'm joined by my PAC. At least one of whom I think knows a bit about

football. Not quite as convinced by the other two. We'll be about to find out. Welcome back to Pittsburgh and a sense. To join now by my PACF tonight. I can talk to you contributors Esther Cracker and Ava Santina and Daily Mirror, Associate Editor, Kevin McGar. We're just talking social media, firepower. I've got 8 million Twitter followers and nearly 2 million Instagram. How are you guys doing? Just a bit under that. Smedgeon.

I'm going to say, when I suddenly saw he'd gone to 500 million followers on Instagram, that is a level of stardom and fame. You can't even imagine. There's only 8 billion people in the world. That includes people in India and China who may not have access to Instagram. One in 16 of the world is following. What do you make of the Ronaldo interview, the fallout, everything? You know what I love is he's spoken out.

Yes. And I'm sick and tired as a football fan of being told a player is ill or injured. And you know there's a big falling out. And he's honest about it. I mean, Man United have to deal with it. Dave, what do you think? Yeah, I mean, it's massive. It's probably the best interview of the year, but you know that.

Only this year. It's fantastic. But, you know, I think it reveals so much about him. I mean, my opinion is slightly different to yours. I think it kind of shows a man who's getting a little bit on in the career, and he sort of knows that it's up. He's aware of that. He said that in an interview.

Sure. But I thought it was so fascinating to see someone that raw. I thought you brought that out of him, actually. I mean, I was laughing with him after us, because, of course, I had my little bust up at Good Morning Britain. And I knew what he meant, is that when you feel disrespected, sometimes you've just got to go with your gun and say, I'm not having it. You've got to be in a position to be able to do that.

Yes. Which he clearly is. I mean, I agree with that. And you were. and that's a strength. But there's always two sides to a story. And I would like somebody from Manchester United. Well, they'd be deafening so far in their silence.

They've not really denied anything he's said. I mean, Esther, it's an interesting thing, isn't it? If you just take it to the employment level, you've got this massive figure who's now basically taken on his employer. But the thing is, as a lifelong United fan, he's not saying anything that we haven't, the supporters of the club haven't been saying for injuries. I mean, even his latin said something similar.

We always knew Pogel wasn't very happy towards his latter. Marina said it. Exactly. Van Hal said it. And he's just confirming what the fans knew. I think my respect for him has gone through the roof because it's clear he never did any of this. Is his legacy United Tarnes? Oh, absolutely.

He could be tying his shoelaces for the next 20 years and his legacy. That's what I think. I think it's a ridiculous thing to say he's tarnish. I mean, Roy Keene is beloved and he fell out just as spectacularly. Let's move to virtue signaling. You and I would use a different phrase for this. But what happened today with the armband was exactly what I feared, which is once you start doing this kind of thing, if you don't then follow through,

you say that we're going to make our stand there, and then you bottle it when you're threatened with the yellow card. The whole thing looks like an insincere sham. Look, I'm not a big fan of armbands with statements, but I think the people who come out of this badly have FIFA. Because they've sold the World Cup to the Qataris. It's so to the players. One of those players, I mean, it took Alex Scott, one of the pundits.

Alice got to actually put the arm band off. They have sold it to a vile regime. I've been to Qatar twice to go out of the Labour camps. I saw the exploitation of workers treated appallingly. But you would say that about anywhere in the Middle East, right? Some are better than others. But the thing is... Where would you allow a World Cup to take place in the Middle East?

Well, actually, Egypt, although it's got a very poor human rights. It's a big football in nation. That's where you lose me. How can you possibly say Egypt has better human rights than Qatar? Because it has. But I wouldn't... No, I argue Egypt because it's a footballing nation. Right.

Okay, but that's why... But I wouldn't send it to Egypt. Sure, but bring it down a little bit. So I really agree with your point where you were talking about virtue signally. But what I didn't like today was we were talking about LGBT and we were talking about how it's not quite right with their culture. Being gay is not a culture. It's not a lifestyle.

I agree. That's just your existence. Eight of the last 32 teams of the tournament, outlaw, homosexuality. Fine, but I think you can appreciate it. One in four. You can appreciate that during that game today, the Iranians looked incredibly brave in front of our team who wouldn't even wear a silly little arm band.

I'm sorry, I actually take a completely different view. I think it's completely disrespectful to wear that. I'm not going to come into your house. No, I'm serious. You do not go to someone else's country and flagrantly disrespect their culture. I'm never going to come into your house and start jumping on your bed with my shoes on. Being gay is not a culture. Let's get that on the table right.

Homosexual. You're jumping on over the bed. Have I missed something here? I'm saying I wouldn't come to your house. Hold on, but I would never come to your house and start jumping on your bed with my shoes on because I respect you and your home. You don't go to someone else's country. It is very different.

It is disrespectful. I agree with you. I agree with you. But what happens when we go to America, given their laws on abortion? An abortion. Are we going to have the same moralising by the BBC, the same monologues? We're not, though. No, they're not going to do it.

But that's silly, because the US and UK have an equally pressuring relationship, and we should be pressurising those states in the US to legalise horses. We shouldn't be pressurising anyone. We're not the moral argument. Let's end on a happy note. Are we going to win the World Cup after today's exhilarating 6-2 victory? No. Get me out, silly.

I doubt it. Do you know what? I actually think you don't have a chance. I feel very encouraged by that today, mainly because the best blood. was Bikaiosaka. Who is an Arsenal player? Oh, God. I banged into the goals.

Arsenal are going to win the World Cup. That's it for me. Thank you, the fact. Thanks to my virtual audience. You were great. Sorry, didn't get to all of you. Whatever you're up to, keep it uncensored. Come on, England.

Good night.