Piers Morgan Uncensored - Prince Harry Will NOT See King & Met Gala reaction

Episode Date: May 7, 2024

Prince Harry is back in Britain. Reportedly he will not meet the King or Prince William. Who snubbed who?  A new documentary airs more lurid claims about Kevin Spacey. He was cleared by a jury - is he now facing trial by media? Tom Brady’s politically incorrect roast is hailed as the death knell for woke comedy. Have comedians got their balls back? And Madonna causes outrage again. Is she a creative iconoclast? Or a dated car crash? Joining me to debate all that - and more - is today’s pack… Joining to Political commentator Ava Santina, Host of Heretics YouTube Channel Andrew Gold, Comedian, James Barr &founder of OutKick - Clay Travis YouTube: @PiersMorganUncensored X: @PiersUncensored TikTok: @piersmorganuncensored Insta: @piersmorganuncensored Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Prince Harry is back in Britain, reportedly he will not, though, be meeting his father, the king or his brother, Prince William. Who snubbed who? In the documentary airs more lurid claims about Kevin Spacey, declared by a jury, he's now facing an unfair trial by media. Tom Brady's political incorrect roast is hailed as the death knell for woke comedy, have comedians got their balls back? And how badly was Kim Kardashian booed? And our old friend Madonna causes outrage again. Is she a creative iconoclast or a dated train wreck? Joining me to debate all that and watch today's pack.

Political commentator Ava Santina, the host of Heretics YouTube channel and author of The Psychology of Secrets, Andrew Gold, the sometime comedian James Barr, and the founder of Outkick Clay Travis. Well, a great lineup of outspoken pugilists. Let's start with Prince Harry. So, James, let me start with you.

interesting that it's coming in for this 10th anniversary of the Invictus Games, having it at St. Paul's Cathedral. And everyone assumed because his father's got cancer and is now obviously backed in public duties, the king may find time in his busy schedule to see his son, but that's not going to happen. And in fact, they've now had a statement from the Duke of Susserkes' office saying, in response to the many inquiries,

a continued speculation on whether or not the Duke will meet with his father one in the UK this week. It unfortunately will not be possible due to His Majesty's full programme. The Duke, of course, his understanding of his father's diary of commitments and various other priorities and hopes to see him soon.

I mean, I always look as a former tablo editor James at the detail here. The Duke, of course, his understanding of his father's diary and other priorities. A clear, veiled, seething upper lip, I don't know if that's true. I mean, welcome home, Harry.

We're so happy to have you back in the UK. Who's happy to have him here? Me and all of the big Harry and Megan fans across the kingdom. There aren't that many of you left. There are quite a few of us, you know what's interesting, when I got turfed at a good morning Britain, obviously for saying that I didn't believe a word

Harry and Megan say about anything, which I still don't. It was funny, the public was split, quite split. Now there's no split. It's basically you and about two other people. Do you mean when you denied... You actually do genuinely feel happy he's here? Do you mean when you denied a woman's story about mental health issues and racism?

Is that what you're talking about? Yeah, the racism we now know is complete. The outrage for you still, though, doesn't it appears? Well, no, no, no. Regardless of what people think of Megan, I think to be clear, the racism and mental health... I think the...

Just to be clear, James, to be finished, the racism and mental health claims that Megan Markle made into... as supported by husband never appeared in Harry's 420 word book about his life. Well, that wasn't a book about Megan? Wasn't that fascinating? That wasn't a book about Megan.

Two of these terrible, terrible things were supposed to happen. They were subjected to racism and she was banned from having treatment. But going back to public opinion, and neither made it to the book. You know what? public opinion, but really...

I didn't make it to the book because they were complete cobblers. You like to talk about Megan's public opinion, but really yours is lower. Let's move on. Actually, it's not. I'm actually way more popular than either one. Really? Yeah. Let me just ask you, though, I can see Clay laughing

and cheering from across the poem where I'm even more popular. Let me ask for the James. On a serious point, James. This is what happens, isn't it? This is, in any family, if one went rogue and publicly trashed his family for years and his wife did, and they

targeted the wife of the king, the king, the future king, and the wife of the future king in the way that Harry did. Unfortunately, there's going to be a payback. And the payback now is he's frozen out by his entire family. You talk about how they were, he was trashing them, but what about the years of systemic media bashing that Harry has faced himself via the family? Do you mean when he rose to be the most popular royal because the media actually loved cheeky As much as I do, that Harry suffered at the hands of the British media, as did his mother, rest in peace, Diana, Queen of Hearts. And so, really, this isn't a conversation that needs to be had.

You never met Dinah, did you? I didn't, peers. No, no, I did a lot. I would have loved to have done it. And she used to ring me a lot and give me stories. She used to, what? What she did? She used to ring you and give you stories.

Yes. Right. And invite me around for lunch and give me loads of stories. Right. So, I think you really understand how these things work. So Harry selling stories on his family is only the same thing that Diana was doing? Are you going to vilify Diana? She didn't sell them. Are you going to vilify Diana? She didn't sell them. That wasn't the question. No, no. My question for you...

They're just the same, really, aren't they? They're not, because one's selling his family down the river. The other one didn't. Also, she never attacked the monarchy as an institution. Let me bring in Clay, he's been waiting patiently across the pond. Clay, the royals are big news in America. If they cough, it's the lead story over there. But on a personal, like, human family level, it is quite extraordinary, isn't it, that Harry can come back to and his father, who's got a serious medical condition, cancer, and his brother, they won't find any time to see him. Yes. And look, I am an American who is obsessed with the royal family, so I loved all of that discussion. I read everything. I watch all the interviews,

and I think what you hit on, Pierce, is it's the intense personal family drama that so many people can connect to, even if they aren't royalty. I've got three sons. If one of them lived out of country and I had cancer and neither me nor the other two boys or the other boy in this case could make time to visit with our brother, our son, who is living in a foreign country when he comes back to visit. It is beyond the pale for me to even contemplate that something like that could happen. And as the dad of three boys, the idea that my boys would ever be in a position where they would refuse to speak and end up in a feud like that

really makes me sick to even think about and my boys are only 16, 13, and 9 now. And I think that is something that connects so well with so many different people out there. You worry about who are your kids going to marry? Are the spouses going to get along? How are the in-laws interactions going to be? And oh, by the way, is one of those women

going to be awful like Megan Markle and spread lies about the entire family? Yeah, I think it's something that even if you aren't famous, even if you aren't royal blood, you worry about as your family grows and as your life evolves. Yeah. I mean, Andrew, it is a psychodrama, but they are the most famous people in the country, if not the world, the British royal family. And at the heart of this, you've got an extraordinary situation, haven't you, where Charles just will not find time in a schedule for his son? Well, we don't know entirely if it's that Harry's not finding time as well. We don't know exactly

No, no, it's clear that it's the king who's not found time. The statement from Harry makes it clear the king has not found time. Well, he's obviously fed up with Harry just going around, you know, earning money off the back of the name of the royal family. I think that's the issue. If they're just gone off on their own, done their own thing in a sort of Kim Kardashian kind of way, I don't know, maybe it would have been okay.

But the fact is they're using the Sussex title in pretty much everything they do. They've now gone back to this, you know, they try to get away and be, oh, look at us, we're intellects, we're different, we're going to. right Netflix series. Now you've got Harry making something about polo, which is just as royal family as it gets. Megan's basically doing the trad wife thing. They've gone full circle now. They've given up and being anything that is separate from the royal family. They're basically trying to become a second royal family. They're competing with Charles. So there's no surprise. There's no surprise

that he's pissed off. And Ava, on a more serious point, actually, they are trying to be a rival royal family. They've announced an official tour to Nigeria, but they're not official royals. There's no official Royal tour. They may have been invited, but of course, the diplomatic thing to do would be to say we can't do this kind of thing because we're not actually working members of the royal family. When you start running around the world, pretending to be our royal family,

but you're not actually working royals, you're not doing any of the duties, you're not part of the firm anymore. That, if you're the king, you can't have that. You could make a really good argument at the moment for actually dismantling the entire monarchy because, you know, I don't really think that the taxpayer is getting very,

much value for money. A lot of the rural family aren't able to work. And actually, if we're going to talk about Royal Duty, maybe it was the Royal Duty of King Charles to make nice with Harry and ask him to come back and actually pick up some of the slack. Why should he? Because the British people deserve it. Why should he? No, if one of my sons abused me and abused my wife and abused my brothers, you know, abused the family publicly in a really disgusting manner, calling them a bunch of Alice, racist and if someone did that, I'm afraid they would not, they would be persona non grata. I don't believe that for one second. And I also do, I don't think it would be whipped up by the media.

I don't think it would have been a huge storm around one of your son's wives. I can't imagine like one of your son's wives ever being front page, you know, and tormented by the media for a good few years before it all actually defends us. You don't know. It depends if they marry, but you can't control it. I mean, surely the king would come out and say, leave my sister and my daughter in law alone. You're absolutely right. And actually, it's crazy that you're saying they're not allowed to go on holiday or go on a tour. What do you want them to do?

What do you all want them to do? But she won't even come to me. You won't even stay at home. It is awful. I'm an American here. Everybody hates Megan. I don't understand why anybody would be defending her. Why do you hate Megan?

Why do you hate Megan? There's a lot of Americans that would be happy to wave by to her. I mean, I'm not a big fan of any of them. Well, she's not. Secondly, she's going on a tour to Africa claiming that she's somehow a black person. Africa's going to Nigeria. It's actually, I think, insulting to people in Africa. The whole thing's crazy.

She's not doing a tour of Africa. She's going to. to Nigeria. Nigeria's in Africa. It's a tour in Africa. It's a tour in Africa. No, a tour of Africa. He said tour in Africa? Right, fine. But the point is that she's allowed to go on holiday. She's allowed to go wherever she wants. It's not a holiday, James.

She's allowed to go there. It's not a holiday. They've announced it like something over... They were invited by the Chief of Desmond. So you say no. No, you don't say no. Here's what I think should happen. Charles should actually, having done this massive snub to Harry announced today, which is a massive snub. And he knew it would be taken that way.

It's embarrassing. I'm told the King is... It's not embarrassing. What's embarrassing is the way his son's been behaving to his family for years. But having done this, he should go further. He should strip them of all their royal titles. Throw them out and say, right, you can go and be B-list celebrities. You can go into the Met Gala with the Kardashians. You can have that life.

You can make your silly jam and flog it to Chrissy Teigen. You can do that kind of thing. What you can't do is represent the British royal family in any way. And the thing that really sticks in my gullet about the pair of them is you see Meg and Markle-on announcing her stupid jam business. and it's from the office of the Duchess Megan. It's like, who are? Maybe the Duchess Megyn of Sussex.

I come from Sussex. I spent more time in Sussex in my last week than she has in her lifetime, right? Make me the Duke of Damn Sussex. Trust me, I will turn up. I'll put a shift in. I'll do my duty. As someone that's also from Sussex,

I can tell you quite strongly peers that we don't want you. The fact that she, Harry gave up the throne for jam. Right. I mean, that is the most heartbreaking thing at all. But can I just ask, how is that anything different? to Princess Eugenie, who's all I see her doing is going on podcast, but she lives off of the royal purse or the public purse. What's the difference between her and Meghan Markle? Is it her skin color?

She doesn't. She's not a working royal. But she's living off the, but she's living in one of the world houses. You're wrong. They both earn their own money. You're absolutely fundamentally wrong. Stop. She's awful.

Why in black, gay, and her espatics? Yes. Sorry, Clay. The idea that Megan Markle is treated unfairly because of her race is one of the most ridiculous arguments maybe you guys have made since you tried to make us colonies. This is ridiculous. White, black, Asian, Hispanic, everybody would hate Megan Markle because she's torn apart Harry and William who seemed to have a fantastic relationship.

She's torn apart the royal family and to do what? To sell jam in Montecito. It doesn't sound as yeah, you don't know that they have a fantastic relationship. Harry is, Harry is, as fallen victim to a virus here, he needs the lever. It was a better relationship before, though. How do you know that? You weren't there? Well, because now they're not talking. It's definitely better.

We know, because Harry put it all in one of his books. Let's turn to the Met Gala, which I thought was... It was extraordinary. I tweeted earlier, which I think summed up the general view. It seemed very short of A-list stars, very high on C-list strippers. Hardly any of the ones who did turn up. Did you be wearing any clothes? Obviously, you expect Emily Radichowski.

She always leads the way in flesh-bearing whilst demanding privacy. But look at them all. I mean, what is this craze, Ava, for women, you know, famous women pitching up at these events with no clothes on? I didn't know that you were such a prude. I'm not. This is news to me. I'm just baffled, but would you do this?

Well, I'm not. Would you come on this show, dress like that? No, because the context is different, isn't it? Those women are appearing as pieces of artwork. No, we're a high fashion show. I mean, look, I'm not going to defend Rita Orra's outfit. I don't even think she could defend it. And I think she had the most stupid or ridiculous statement of the night

when she said that her beads were older than anyone else. who was alive, they dated back to 100 BC. However, look, I think, you know, I don't even think it's about the body there. I think you're actually looking at the piece of art that is on the body. Really? Oh, okay, look, I'm not going to excuse that.

I'm not going to excuse that. Where is the art there? Come on, she's a stripper. Andrew, I don't want to be mean. On the other hand, they are deliberately going to one of the most photographed events in the world and want us to focus and obsess on what they're wearing. If you turn up looking like a stripper,

then I'm going to call you a Twitter. I did, and they gave me this suit in the end because it wasn't appropriate for this show. But, you know, it's something that I think has come from a kind of identity policy. I think it does come from this idea that, you know, previously there was some conservatism around the way people dressed, that kind of thing.

And people think that now that they are free to wear anything they want, they really go way too far, almost because they want us to now talk about them and criticize, and they can then be looked at some sort of victim. Well, James, the one that caught my eye was Kim Kardashian. I think she's having a bit of a weird moment in her life and career

because the theme of the event was the Garden of Time. This is what she looked like when she turned up. She's wearing some weird old cardigan around the dress and she looks slightly out of it. When you watch the close-ups of Kim Kardashian, she looked slightly twitchy and weird or something's going on. And if you think about it,

she'd been at the Tom Brady roast a few days earlier where I have never seen anyone at somebody else's roast, get up to roast that person, and then this happens. Her waist does not look right, does it? I mean... Here we go. Watch this. People make fun of your hate. That, I'm afraid, that's the beginning of the end, isn't it, James?

I mean, that's the moment the world goes, no, we're done with you, Kardashians. You are a bunch of talentless, ludicrous individuals who've fed off public stupidity for too long. You've made your billions, but actually, we're all done with you. I am not done with the Kardashians. Of course you're not. But, I mean, I will say,

I think there was a lot of a Zen pick on the red carpet of the Met Gala. But one of the things that's important to note about what you were saying in terms of the Met Gala's theme this year is that it was about a book. And in that book, this garden, it withers and grows really quickly

and it's about human existence. So in a way, not having many clothes on, in Rita Orra's case, is pretty much on theme. And Kim, looking vulnerable, is also on theme. So I don't know why you're criticizing a bunch of celebrities.

I saw your tweet, trying to make money and looking glamorous. That's the whole point of celebrity culture. just doing their job. It's literally what you're doing in a different way. Well, let me ask Clay Traydrave. Apparently what I do is the same thing. Apparently, I want to look pretty, look vacuous and make money out of it. That's not quite how I categorize being one of the world's foremost journalist.

But thank you, James. Let me bring Clay back in. The Met Gala itself is become a kind of, and I think it's losing his luster. There was no Beyonce, no Rihanna, no Taylor Swift, no Lady Gaga. None of the big ones turned up, right? You're left with the Kardashians and Emery Radichowski and these ludicrous people who don't actually have a talent. They're not singers. They're not dancers. They're not anything. They're just vacuous reality people. When that becomes the selling point of your event, it loses that cachet, isn't it?

Yeah, well, a couple of things also to put in mind. There were a thousand anti-Israel protesters outside that were harassing in New York City. As you well know, this has continued to kind of spread. Second thing, this was the day. day after the Tom Brady roast, which aired live on Netflix. And I actually, you played that one cut. I actually thought maybe the most devastating joke that Tom Brady told when he got up at the end was when he said Kim Kardashian was really nervous, and I'm paraphrasing him, about coming tonight, not because of what people might say, but because she was going to have to leave all of her kids at home with her ex-husband.

Yeah. Obviously a shot at Kanye being crazy, but the whole room, because it was Tom Brady making that joke about Kim Kardashian, kind of inhaled, because you didn't expect him to go after her to that extent. And the booing that you saw, I think was emblematic that there are a lot of people over her. And she came in for some rough, rough jokes by being there. I guess I give her some credit for showing up. But she took some of the heavyest. comedic body blows of anybody there. No question. Talking of body blows, there's a clip of Madonna

who was playing for a 1.6 million people in Brazil's Copacabana Beach. And this was one of the things that they were encouraged to witness on stage. Madonna's, she's 70 yet? 65. 65-year-old woman doing this on, mother of many

children, obviously, many of which she's adopted and wants to be a role model to. And she does this on stage. James Barr as the resident defender of the indefensible. This was your great-grandmother, which is probably about the right age. How would you feel about that? I'd be living.

I'd be proud of it. To be clear, you'd be proud of it. Yes, get on only fans, make me a million, buy me a house. Wow. It'd be great. Honestly, I don't understand your problem. She's not even being fingered here. She's wearing clothes.

Sorry? She's wearing clothes, peers. You know she's paying these people to do that. I mean, I could do that right now. Nothing's happening. I mean, it's literally fine. It's just a woman expressing her artisticness. And she's always been like this.

She's been triggering you fools for her whole career. How would you feel if a male actor who was paying people and there was this abuse of power was getting them on stage to do those things? Oh my God. If that was a man doing that to a younger male, he'd be already cancelled. There's no abuse of power because this is consent. People are being paid. He would be cancelled so far.

And you know who would lead to cancellation? People like James Bar. not. Would you be happy with James Blunt up on stage with people touching his willy all over the time? If he had paid them and they'd agreed and consented to do that, then yes, of course I'd be happy with it. Of course you wouldn't. Ava. I'd volunteer in fact.

Madonna, I mean, look, the idea that 1.6 million Brazilians turned out to watch it says a lot about Brazil. Not in a good way. What? I mean, I just can't watch much more Madonna doing this stuff. I'm not a big fan of your framing that women over 65 aren't participating in sex. There's got to be a cuss off

for simulating sex on stage. For anyone, male or female. You wouldn't like... And you know what? It's a lot lower than 65. I think she's been provocative her entire career. I mean, you've got to think about what she did with Catholicism. It's sleazy.

It's not grubby or sleazy. It's not grubby or sleazy. It was meant to be someone who was meant to be her younger self who's participating in this act with her. It's meant to be a piece of art. And you can look away. No one's asking you. Clay, Clay, apparently it's arts and we're missing the point. I don't think we are.

You probably remember when she came out with the book sex. Yes. You know, her entire life has been, remember they were giving people, like, charging to watch peep shows of just looking through the book. But to me, what it represents is we're so all steeped in pornography now. You know, when I was a kid growing up, going to get a playboy trying to figure out how you could get one off the magazine rack when you're 12 or 13 years old was a huge deal. We used to have scrambled television here in the States. And every now and then, you'd see like a blue boob come by and you'd be like, oh, my goodness, this is amazing. you know, it's discolored, everything else.

Nowadays, you pull out your phone, you can go watch anything you want. So Madonna, to me, just seems so behind the times, desperately trying to keep up with the era in which she's in remember she made out with Britney Spears like 20 years ago now, and that was supposed to be controversial. This just looked like an old washed up woman desperately trying to be relevant. Sorry, I don't know if this is different in the States, but in the UK, we used to have, you know, bare women's breasts on page three of most newspapers, most red talk. I know. I don't know about doing that.

Right? I love that. I saw it when I came to study abroad. Actually, what was wrong with Pace Riegers? Wasn't that women just showing off their body positive? I'm countering the point that at one point in time when we were growing up, we were much more, you know, sex frightened when we weren't. We were printing it in national newspapers. There was a point in the United States, it was hard to see a boob, all right? It might have been easier in England.

I'm jealous of all the teenage boys who grew up there. But it was hard. Now it's easy. You can go find porn anywhere. I remember when I came to study abroad and I opened the newspaper there and I said, my God, the Brits are brilliant on this. They managed to combine

actual daily news with naked boobs. I loved it. I don't know if they still do it, but I think it's a good move. There was a great question at Kirstie Young asked Grayson Perry the other day about when he goes around putting dildos on at charities and things like that, which is, do you ever think that you have done something sexually, you're engaging in something sexually, that other people around you in the public haven't consented

to being involved in? Right. And I thought that was a great question So 1.6 million people went to Madonna. Many of them were children. They didn't consent to having that in their face. This show was on at 11 p.m. at night. So what? Show me the children. Brazil.

If you don't know it's going to be sexual, your students are. There were no children unless there were pictures. Everybody knows that everyone knows that Madonna does this. This is what Madonna has done. Do you accept? So if you're taking your children to Madonna, then you obviously think it's appropriate for your children. Do you accept as inappropriate for children to watch?

I think I would imagine. Well, yes, of course. But it's Madonna. All right. And actually. James Barr slams Madonna and says children shouldn't have seen this film. That is not what I said. Do not take my words out of context. You literally just said it.

No, I didn't. I said I don't. Because it was inappropriate. It was inappropriate if you're a child and you watch that and you don't know what's happening. But if you're kicking up a fuss, then I think it's inappropriate because really you're telling people what it is. It's totally inappropriate for a kid to see that. Of course. Listen, it was 11 p.m. at night. Madonna is Madonna.

If you're taking your child to Madonna, that's on you. If you took your kid to James Blunt and he was doing it, that's on you. Why is it James Blunk? He's the only pop star I know. He has a thing for James Blunt. He's just a pop star, isn't he? Who's a pop star? I mean, he...

Canya West, he's doing a thing. The point is, if any man did that with a young man on a stage, he would be arrested. Well, I don't know. Matty Healy is very, like, sexual when he's on stage with 19-7-12. Mick Jagger is very much. Mick Jagger thrusts around. He's 80 years old. On his own.

He's not manipulating some poor kid. Or what about Elvis? When Elvis was first dancing, he was seen as overtly sexual. Oh, wasn't really that. for many of the South states. Even the Elvis pelvis thrust is similar to what Madonna does. But it was, but contextually at the time, it was seen as too much. OK, let's go on to something a bit more serious.

Kevin Spacey, subject of a Channel 4 documentary over here in the UK. It's due to stand trial in the UK again. Another civil action in a lawsuit by a man who alleges the Act as sexually assaulted him. This is reported by Reuters yesterday. Assault alleged to have happened in August 2008. Spacey denies it. The Channel 4 documentary, two parts, had, I think, 10 men making claims about it.

Think about this. I'm just keen to discuss, and I'll start with you, Clay, if I can. The point about Spacey is he's been through a criminal trial. The whole Kevin Spacey... Yeah. Well, I was going to make the point before I did... To me, and, Pierce, I'm going to have to duck out here in a sec

because my radio show is about to start. No problem, make your point, yeah. This has been awesome, by the way. But to me, the whole Kevin Spacey thing, he's an incredible actor. And the most fascinating thing about his career is, first of all, he's been found to my knowledge, not guilty so far in all of the accusations against him. But it forces you to contemplate what is the standard by which you are willing to accept an incredibly talented artist, because I think he is,

as an actor, phenomenally talented, given the allegations that are out there against him. And it reminds me a little bit of what we had to do in the States with Michael Jackson. but Michael Jackson died. And so his music has continued in a way that someone like R. Kelly, who was convicted in a court of law, did not. And so as long as he isn't challenged, as long

as he isn't charged and convicted, to me, Kevin Spacey deserves the right to be able to make a living as an actor, even though the accusations themselves are incredibly, incredibly troubling. So far as I know, he still hasn't been convicted in a court of law. That's completely right. That's what I was going to make to.

He was acquitted. in the criminal trial. He won the civil action against him. He's facing another one. But so far, nothing has stuck. Clay, thank you so much for joining us. Please come back. You've been great. I love it. Happy to come on anytime. Again, I wish that the

royal family could all get together. I am team, William and Charles, to the extent that anybody cares and we need to kick Megan Markel out of America. I'll see you guys. Send a love to Megan, please. All right. Let's talk about Clemens Spacey, James. You know, I just,

It made uncomfortable viewing the Channel 4 thing, obviously. But at the same time, he is at the moment an innocent man when it comes to legal actions against him. At what point does trial by media and social media supplant actual trials? I mean, if he's been found not guilty, why is he still cancelled? And is it fair that the media continue to report on him

when these are not actually appearing in court. Well, there's now a new court date set for 2025. I think there's new allegations that have come out. What'd you make of that generally? Well, I think in general... He gave his big interview to Dan Wooden. Going back to Michael... It was actually an interesting watch that Dan Wooden got.

He himself got cancelled by G.B. News, Dan Wooden. There's an interesting watch 90 minutes with Spacey. I watched it all. And, you know, he made it a good point. Let's take a look at some of it. I've been mired in litigation for years and years. and years and was just unable to speak in a public form. And look, I'd also be just fine to humbly return to work

and be grateful without saying anything. But I can't go through this again, allowing myself to be baselessly attacked without defending myself. If I was really this monster and everyone knew about it, then why aren't people asking questions about the networks and studios who were all too happy to monetize off of me while allowing me to roam the streets freely? He admitted to clumsy and inappropriate behaviour with men

but said it wasn't illegal, it's never been alleged to be illegal, and he's denying all the new allegations. What do you feel about it? So he's admitted to clumsy behaviour with men. Is that enough for me, maybe? I think when it comes to Michael Jackson, I've watched a lot of the interviews with those boys.

I don't personally choose to listen to Michael Jackson's music. That's my decision as a human being. And I feel the same with Kevin Spacey. I think you talk about the media and the court of public opinion. But really, if your neighbor stole something from you, you have the right to not like your neighbor anymore, even if they're not necessarily guilty.

If your neighbor allegedly stole something. Well, sorry, yes, allegedly. Then you have the right to decide, actually, I don't like that neighbor. For example, maybe you won't take my Amazon parcels, so I'm going to bitch about you. No, but the interesting parallel you make there, because, Eva, this comes back again.

We've discussed this many times, the right to due process, the fundamental right in law, that you're innocent to proven guilty. It seems to me space he's been proven innocent in courts of law, both criminal and civil, but he's been convicted in the court of public opinion, fueled by a media that won't let it go

and won't allow him to work again and so on. Is that fair? Well, you've got 10 people who've said that he didn't act in a criminal way, not in a way that should go to criminal proceedings, but he acted in a deeply unprofessional, and one of them even said disgusting way. Right. Now, I think the problem that we've got is this sort of asymmetrical line of power.

So if you're working on a film set, obviously the main star is going to have all of the power. And you've got networks who are not going to want to get a bit of that style. You don't have an HR department who's going to help you out. So actually the problem with all of this is actually exactly what Kevin Spacey just said. The problem is with the networks because what they would know that this was going on. They would know if there had been inappropriate touching. But they would rather make money than actually have a decent atmosphere on set. How is that different to Madonna?

What? What Madonna was doing? Madonna's got a lot of power. There are people working for Madonna who might have felt like they had... Please don't make me argue as stupid. Like, that's so silly. Like, you're really going to say that Madonna paying someone to take part in a piece of art... In 20 years, that person will come out and say, I felt like I had to to progress my career.

That's actually an interesting point. What if that person does in 20 years say, actually, having thought about it, it was an abuse of her power. But that's what's happened with... I will part of that point. But that person is being paid for a piece of art. It's very different to be involuntary. really touched. Like if you were groped in a corridor, like when you were a young journalist, would you not have a problem with that? He wasn't groping people in corridors. He was getting blow-jrops

from people who wanted to advance their career. Hang on, sorry. I don't think that you watched the documentary, because in the documentary, the first person who speaks saying he was groped by him in a corridor. Well, there's also the issue that back then we had different standards and morals. And now, okay, I mean, people cheered that kind of behavior on back then. So what do you, I mean, we have changed now. But what do we do? Go back 50 years. Do we go back 200? No, no, no, wait. We're not, we're talking about House of Cards on set in like, We're not talking about a million years ago. Some of the claims go back 30, 40 years.

Yeah, they do, yeah. And as he makes the point, he was given a week to respond to this. He can't remember what happened before it. I mean, nobody could, right? So I do think it's a tricky line this of, I think, fundamentally due process. If someone's got an allegation to make about somebody, go to the police and let the police investigate. If it gets to them being charged, go to a trial, you have a court, and have it out there. This is so complicated because I think,

I'm right in saying only 5% of, and this is a different situation, but of rape cases that are actually bought to a final verdict, only 5% of the death. Which is a separate, which we've discussed again, and I think that's completely wrong, but that doesn't mean... It's not easy. You have to take individual cases again. The point about space is not like he's never been taken to court.

He has. He's been taken to criminal court and civil court, and he's won both. Yeah, but he's admitted himself that he had behaviour that wasn't necessarily right. Climsy and inappropriate. Climsy and inappropriate. So he said that. So are we allowed to judge him for that? I think we are.

If it's not illegal, does that now reach the bar then of lifetime cancellation? Is it cancellation or is it people just saying we don't want to work with him anymore because of those clumsy... I think it's probably people who would normally employ him being terrified of doing it because the media keep highlighting these stories of inappropriate clumsy behavior. But they weren't you angry at the networks because they knew about it when it was going on? Well, that's the point he makes. I don't know. I don't know, Kevin Spacey. I've no idea how guilty or otherwise he is.

I just know that he has been to court. twice and he won both cases. And ultimately, if you do believe in due process and innocent to proven guilty, is it enough to have people appearing on a documentary? But you know what it is? It wasn't illegal and I'm not going to go to the police about it, but I think he behaved badly. But you normally believe men. You're normally the one who says that men are too okay. No, no. Just to your point, a bit like your point about Megamarkle,

I don't take anybody at whatever they say as being facts. I think you make allegations, whether you're male or female, whether you're talking about the royals being racist, or you're talking about Kevin Spacey, whatever it is, you make an allegation, it gets properly investigated, and at the end of that, decisions are taken. That's what I believe, right?

Do you think the problem here is that it isn't, that it should be illegal, and it should be prosecutable, if you are someone in a position of power and you are groping someone in a pace of work? To Andrew's point, you can't go back in what law was then. But I'm saying, are you not annoyed that that's not a law already?

Why is that not legal? It wouldn't happen now, is the climate now is massively changed. They must have to be... You're saying people don't get groped at work. No, no, I'm sure nothing like as many is used to. You don't know that. We do know that. We do know that.

The thing is, I think ultimately the point is, people don't like you peers and they might refuse to work with you. And it's the same thing. If they don't like what Kevin Spacey has done or allegedly done or admitted to doing in the past, they are entitled to not work with him. No one's not cancel the function. No one cares really what people have done.

People care how they'll look for having worked with someone, which comes from a culture that's fostered around that person. So it's about what Pearce was saying about the media. That's the issue. If we're gonna punish him to that point, no one will wanna touch. You know what we should probably do, Kevin's basically. He should put himself through the same roast that Tom Brady did.

This is the comedian Tony Hinchcliff. Let's just end with the highlights of Hinchcliff taking everyone down. Kevin is so small that when his ancestors picked cotton, they called it deadlifting. Tom Brady is a patriot, which is surprising, considering he looks like a Confederate fag. Clearly your ex-wife takes after you. I hear she says,

She's out there draining balls right now. People love you, Tom. You have the same fan base as Kyle Rittenhouse. Sam J. In obese, African-American lesbian. So by having here, Netflix checked off a lot of boxes. Andrew Schultz, I'm glad you took a break from watching YouTube videos on how to dapp up black dudes correctly.

Schultz's mom is a professional ballroom dancer, which means she's a stripper that talks too much. And how about the appearance from the great Ron Burgundy, huh? A whale's vagina, which reminds me. Kim Kardashian's here. She's had a lot of black men celebrate in her end zone. Kim, word of advice, close your legs. You have more public beef than Kendrick and Drake.

Look at James's face. He's desperately trying not to laugh, even though he found the whole thing hilarious. And here's the problem. This is a roast, you're supposed to be deliberately offensive. And the point is, it was kind of refreshing to hear person after post. get up on stage and just be utterly outrageous. Pearz, when are we going on a roast?

I'm sure Comedy Central would have us. The idea of me and you engaged anything. I would love to engage in a roast. Anything titled roast ain't going to happen. I think we should roast each other long and far, Pear, Piers. Live for the whole world to see. Thank you. Rapidly to my pack.

Andrew Gold, thank you very much. James Barr, Ava Santina. I enjoyed that. We'll be back soon.