Piers Morgan Uncensored - “Release EVERYTHING!” Ted Cruz & Jeffrey Epstein’s Brother + Texas Floods Disaster

Episode Date: July 9, 2025

Deadly flash floods in Texas have killed more than 100 people, with at least 160 still missing in a single county. Frantic search and rescue operations are ongoing as Democrats attempt to tie the response to government cuts. Piers Morgan speaks to OS1 Texas Senator Ted Cruz, to get his insight into the tragedy - plus he gives his explosive view on the vanishing Epstein list. Also joining Uncensored to discuss the Epstein files saga is White House correspondent for Steve Bannon’s War Room, Natalie Winters, YouTuber Brian Tyler-Cohen, co-host of The Verdict with Ted Cruz, Ben Ferguson and streamer Destiny. Piers then speaks to Jeffrey’s brother, Mark Epstein, who has some bombshell insights on the DOJ’s conclusions. Piers Morgan Uncensored is proudly independent and supported by: Tax Network USA: Call 1-800-958-1000 or visit https://TNUSA.com/PIERS to meet with a strategist today for FREE Pique: Get 20% off your order plus a FREE frother & glass beaker with this exclusive link: https://piquelife.com/PIERS Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I think Jeffrey Epstein was a sexual predator. Look, I wanted to release everything. Every adult who was culpable and responsible, I think the public should know. You think President Trump has something to do with Epstein, your brother, being killed? I wouldn't write that off. I heard God killed those kids because they were using NordVPN, promo code destiny, to get around the Texas porn ban. On reflection, do you think that was grotesquely tasteless thing to be posting?

Absolutely not. The hand ringing here. Oh, my God, stop. I'm not going to sit here and argue about jokes when these guys are spreading lies. When it happens in L.A., when it's about the wildfires, you guys make jokes when... I'm not a sick vile person like you.

If you understood the size of the town, which you don't, because you don't care, because you're literally trying to make money off the dead people, Google the size of the comfort Texas city hall. You can't fit hundreds of people in any meeting there, you moron. Well, totally general, Pam Bondi is facing intensifying biotivizing bipartisan pressure for the calamitous handling of the Epstein files. Bondi claimed the so-called Epstein client list, which many imagined as a record of high-profile

he'd blackmail, was sitting on her desk. The administration now says there is no list, there was no blackmail, and that the release of prison videotapes proves he took his own life. Well, that video skips forward by full minute, fueling even more speculation for which she offered this rather torturous explanation. The minute missing from the video, we released the video showing definitively, the video was not conclusive, but the evidence prior to it was showing he committed suicide. And what was on that, there was a minute that was off the counter.

And what we learned from Bureau of Prisons was every year, every night. They redo that video. It was old from like 1999. So every night the video is reset, and every night should have the same minute missing. so we're looking for that video to release that as well, showing that a minute is missing every night. And that's it on Epstein. That's not likely to be it on Epstein

for Bondi or anybody else in administration. For those who've demanded answers for years spurred on by the very people now in office who are saying they're simply aren't any. It's a fundamental issue of trust. President Trump has made clear he's sick of it all. Sir. Are you still talking about Jeffrey Epstein?

This guy's been talked about for years. years. You're asking, we have Texas, we have this, we have all of the things. And are people still talking about this guy, this creep? That is unbelievable. We are going to talk about this creep. Later on, I'll interview his brother, Mark Epstein, who has some explosive insights onto the DOJ's conclusions. But we begin with the utter devastation in Texas and the deadly flash floods that have killed more than 100, at least 160 still missing in a single county. Frantic search and rescue operations are ongoing as we speak. Democrats are attempting to tie the response to government cuts. In a moment, we'll introduce the panel to debate all this, but first I'm joined by Texas

Senator Ted Cruz, making his debut on Unsensitive. Senator, welcome to you. Here, it's great to be with you. Thank you for having you. It's great to have you on. Thank you very much. First of all, where are we with this? We know that over 100 people have been very sadly killed here. We know that another 170 or more remain missing. Is there any hope at this stage, Senator, do you think that you're going to find people alive? Well, listen, there's always hope, but obviously the further along you get every hour, every day, the odds go down. The confirmed fatalities is over 100, as you noted. There are 165 known people that are missing. We don't know everyone that's missing. One of the problems

is this was the 4th of July weekend. This is a very popular vacation spot. You had people camping, people who don't live in Kerr County, who came there were camping by. the river, we're celebrating the 4th of July. You had people in RVs. We had RVs, dozens of them, just swept into the river, and so they don't have a complete list of who is missing. But it's just a question of systematic search, and it's both aerial search using helicopters, it's ground search, there are teams that are systematically covering the area, and then it's also using canines to discover. Tragically, most of what is being discovered now are bodies of people who have deceased. And of those hundred, we know at least 29 of them were girls and counselors at Camp

Mystic. And I'll tell you on Monday, I was there on the ground in the Hill Country. I was at Camp Mystic. I got to tell you what I saw at the camp. It may be the most horrible thing I've ever seen in my life. The Guadalupe River is a beautiful river. And just, I don't know if you ever been in this part of Texas, Pierce, but it's central Texas. It's the hill country. And it's widely considered the prettiest part of the state. They're rolling hills and canyons and these gorgeous rivers. And so you have lots of summer camps, about 40 summer camps, because it's a great place to vacation and kids.

I've been swimming in that river and floating in that river dozens of times. And normally it's beautiful and peaceful. In the early mornings of July 4th, in the early morning hours, over 1.8 trillion gallons of water fell on that river. and it rose about 30 feet. And at Camp Mystic, the cabins are hundreds of yards away from the river, but it rose so fast that the girls' cabins had about eight feet of water in them. You could see the water line in the cabins,

and it swept all the furniture out, it blew the windows out, and tragically killed a significant number of campers, especially the younger ones. There's one cabin right in the middle that was called the, Bumble in, and it was a cabin of third grade girls. And outside that cabin, there are 17 small white Latin crosses in the ground with the names of each of the girls on them. And at this point, every girl in that cabin is either confirmed dead or is missing right now. I'll tell you, two of those little girls go to school with my daughter.

One of them lived literally a block away from me in Houston. And so in Texas, our hearts are broken right now, this tragedy. And the entire country, the entire world is watching every parent, it's every parent's nightmare to lose a child in a tragedy like this. And we appreciate our pouring of love. We appreciate the prayers from across the world for these moms and dads who are grieving with unspeakable pain. It's a desperate story.

I've got a daughter of 13. and obviously the first thing you do, you just reflect on if that happened to you, your family, to tell your friend. It's just, it is an unimaginable tragedy. Let's just talk about the criticism that's come in, leveled by some Democrats, that somehow the blame for this can be directly associated to doge cuts at the national weather service and so on.

You've had four days to look at this now. From what you've seen, is there anything to suggest that anything more could have been done? And is there anything to suggest that any of the cuts that have either been made this year or are due to come in later this year? Could any of this process have had a negative detrimental effect, which if it hadn't happened, could have stopped this tragedy being as bad as it is? Yeah, I don't think there's any evidence that the Doge cuts had had any connection to what happened here. There are obviously and absolutely things that could have been done better.

And those are questions we need to be asking right now. Listen, whenever you have a natural disaster, whether a hurricane or a tornado or flooding, you sometimes get partisans who try to score political points. And if you see a hurricane, there are those on the left who'll say it's Donald Trump's fault, no matter what happens. I think that's inappropriate. I think we ought to be focusing on getting people out of harm's way.

With respect to the doge cuts, in this instance, the National Weather Service, number one, predicted this event, put out an emergency alert shortly after 1 a.m., shortly after 4 a.m., so those alerts went out. Number two, the office that had responsibility for this area was based in New Bronfels, which is also in central Texas right there. the night of July 3rd and the morning of July 4th, they were anticipating an extreme weather event. So not only were they fully staff, but they had three additional staff members they brought in to prepare for that. So they had more than ample resources on the ground to deal with it. And in fact, if you look at the National Weather Service Union, which has been very critical of the Doge cuts, they don't like the Doge Cuts. The National Weather Service Union has said publicly, those cuts had no impact. impact on reducing, hurting the natural weather services ability to predict this outcome.

And so the union would have every incentive if they could blame it on the doge cuts to do so, and they're saying it's not. Now, in any natural disaster, there's an order to how things play out. The first priority is search and rescue, just getting people out of harm's way, saving lives. We are reaching the end of that period, but that has been the principal phase we've been in. The next phase is recovery. And recovery and rebuilding, that takes months or years. There are homes that have been devastated, billions of dollars.

That's going to be an ongoing process. But the third thing that will play out in the next months and years, it is a careful retrospective examining the precise timeline, what happened, and asking what lessons can be learned, what can we do differently? And I'll say, look, as an obvious matter, if you and I could step in a time machine right now. And we could go back to two in the morning on July 4th. We would both run to those cabins and get those little girls out of there. I mean, all of us wish those girls were not in harmed way. And we'd also run to the RV camps where all the people were sitting in RVs by the riverbank

and get them out of there and remove, try to help the vulnerable people leave. And so one challenge, when an alert goes out at one in the morning or four in the morning, most people are asleep four in the morning. And so I think it is a very reasonable question to ask, how can we be more effective at getting those alerts where people hear them? And one idea that's been discussed that I think makes a lot of sense is having a system of sirens and alarms along the riverbank. You see that in parts of Texas where tornadoes are prevalent. A tornado like a flash flood can occur very quickly, and that alarm can give you minutes to get out of harm. way. I think it makes a lot of sense to look at a similar system here along the Guadalupe

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So don't wait for the next IRS letter. Call 800-958-1000 or visit t-nusa.com slash peers. That's tnusa.com slash peers for expert help on your tax. Yeah, because it seems to me there must be, I've not been to this region. It sounds utterly beautiful. Friends of mine have been there say it's just a staggeringly beautiful place.

But as you say, when a natural disaster like this happens, it happens very, very quickly. I would imagine, I don't know, but I've read reports suggesting a lot of the cell phone coverage can be patchy around there. So if you're getting a text message warning system, that's going to be pretty unreliable. And the siren system, it seemed to me,

seemed to me a very logical thing which would have made a big difference. And I guess the question that comes following that train of thought is why was it not already in place? Yeah, look, I think that is a fair question. You know, I'll say the cell phone coverage, particularly in this part of Texas, is very spotty. I have two teenage daughters. And my girls have been going to camp in Kirk County, in the Hill Country for a decade. Actually, my wife, Heidi, was there picking up our youngest daughter, Catherine, the week before

this happened. She had just finished camp. And, you know, immediately when that, Catherine's 14, I'll tell you, I just hugged her and Caroline when this happened, because you just think there but for the grace of God go I. That could easily have been our daughters. And I've spent the last several days talking to moms and dads who lost their daughters and just the agony of that. Not only do you have really lousy cell coverage there, but for the camps, and there are about 40 camps in Kerr County. This is a very popular place for both girls' camps and boys' camps. Almost all the camps make the kids leave their cell phones at home. So the kids, by and large, don't have cell phones, which means you've got only the counselors and a handful of adults that have cell phones. And so

we need to have, and I expect at the local level, the state level and the federal level, I expect we're going to have very serious conversations about how we improve the emergency communication and response. Because obviously, here, we suffered a catastrophic loss of life. Senator, you've been criticized by some that you're on a family holiday in Greece when this happened and that more than 24 hours after the Guadalupe River burst its banks, you were seen with your wife lining up outside the Parthenon in Greece. And I've seen your explanation.

You were on a family holiday. You said you made immediate calls and you made plans to come back as soon as you could. I guess my one question for you, as always, as you know, because you've had this situation before when you were on a family holiday once during a massive storm in Texas and got criticized for not coming back. With hindsight, would you have preferred not to have been photographed queuing up to see the Parthenon?

Would it have been a better optic not to have carried on doing holiday things? Listen, in today's world, you always had people engaging in political attacks and throwing rocks, and I think that's unfortunate. I was on a pre-planned family vacation with my wife and daughters. We were already in Europe there when this occurred. I'll tell you, most Fourth of July's, I try to go on vacation with my kids and spend time with my kids. That's the same is true of millions of people. When this crisis occurred, it was horrific, and we were watching the facts unfold. Within hours, I was on the phone with Texas Governor Greg Abbott.

I was on the phone with Texas Lieutenant Governor Dan Patrick. I was on the phone with Nim Kidd, who is the head of the Texas Department of Emergency Management. And then I called President Trump, and this was early on as the facts were still unfolding about the flooding. And I told the President, I said, Mr. President, we don't know all the facts yet. We don't know exactly what has happened, but we know this looks bad. This could be very, very bad. There could be a very significant loss of life. And I said, we need to make sure that every federal

resource and asset that we possible is deployed. And the president said, he said, Ted, anything Texas needs, the answer is yes. And so in the hours that this flooding was unfolding, we had over a dozen helicopters in the air. We had Coast Guard helicopters in the air, National Guard helicopters in the air, and Texas DPS, and we had game wardens. They carried out over 850 high water rescues. And so, So there was extraordinary heroism. And now we're working hand in hand with families. I was within hours of this talking to parents whose daughters had gone missing. We're working with state and local officials.

We're working with FEMA to get federal resources there. And so all of that, if you're halfway around the world, you do it by phone. And then I got on a plane Sunday morning and flew back. And it takes a whole day to get back. And so I got in Sunday evening. and was there by 7 a.m. Monday morning in Kirk County and spent the entire day there on the ground. And so those who want to play politics that with this,

they can do that. My focus is on the crisis that is unfolding on the ground and doing everything we can to help those who are hurting right now in Texas. It was reported, and maybe you can just clear this up, and eyewitness said that you, as you were lining up for the path, and that somebody walked past, this eyewitness said that they said, to you, 20 kids dead in Texas and you take a vacation.

He sort of grunted and walked on. His wife shot me a dirty look. They continued on their tour guide. Did that conversation happen? Not that I know of, but apparently this was some angry left-wing person who said that. I didn't hear anyone say that, but apparently this individual believes they did. The grunt they heard from me, I have nothing to say about that. I did not hear anyone say that.

But listen, we live in a world that is really polarized. And so people engage in hate on both sides that I think is really unfortunate. One of the consequences of serving in public life, look, I see lots of people and sometimes people say really good things. I sort of joke that people often will raise a finger to me. Sometimes it's a thumbs up. Sometimes it's a different finger. and that's, you know, that's just sort of the polarized world we live in. Yeah.

But I wish both sides would show a little bit of grace and treat each other with more humanity. And so there are people on the Democrat side of the aisle I disagree with, but I try very hard not to attack, not to demonize them. As you know, I do a podcast every week called Verdict with Ted Cruz. We do the podcast three days a week. And one of the things we do, we've taken the podcast on a lot of college campuses. And we'll have college students. We'll open it up to 90 minutes of Q&A. And I'll tell you, peers, my rule when we do that is I say, look, if you have a hostile question,

if you have an antagonistic question, come to the front of the line. And we're going to have a constructive, civil conversation. We may disagree. But I think all of us need to talk to each other more rather than the world we live in now of just hating each other. and throwing insult, I think, is really counterproductive. I totally agree. And, funny enough, when you had your sort of dust up as it was reported, but actually, it was a really interesting conversation with you and Tucker Carlson.

I like that conversation. I think you should have robust conversations. And all right, it gets clipped up, clipped up, and things go viral, and people take their kind of tribal positions. But actually, you need more of that. People getting in a room and having sometimes polar opposite opinions, but thrashing it out. You only came on to talk about the floods,

and I don't want to abuse that. I just can't give them with basically building the show around this. I just wanted to ask you one question about something else. It's about these Epstein files. A lot of people very angry that after being led to the water's edge of a belief by the administration, there was going to be all this stuff coming out, client lists and so on and so on accountability, that suddenly it seems the shutters have come down on this. A lot of people, as you know, on the conservative right,

and particularly in the Magu world, very, very upset about this. What's your reaction to it? Now, everybody knows how much I enjoy my tea, and I'm very happy to say that today's show is sponsored by Peaks Pure fermented teas. These are not your average bruise. They're sourced from 250-year-old wild trees in the Himalayan foothills, which are untouched by modern farming. No pesticides, no fertilizers, just nature at its best.

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Peaks pure fermented teas for the gut of a Brit and the longevity of a kettle of the. Himalaya Monk, get 20% off for life, plus a free frother and glass beaker with the pure bundle. Visit peaklife.com slash peers. That's peak, P-I-Q-U-E-Life.com slash peers. Look, I want them to release everything, and I've called on that for a long time. I've called on that during the previous administration, the Biden administration did not release these materials. I've called on this administration to release these materials. I think Jeff, Jeff, Jeffrey Epstein was a sexual predator. I think he targeted and abused young girls. And all the evidence we have is there were a number of other men who participated in that.

And I want to know everyone who participated. I want to know everyone that went to Epstein's Island. And, you know, the Attorney General has said that there are thousands of hours of videos, of explicit videos. And what she told me, I asked her a couple of months ago what the delay was. and what she told me then, and she said the delay was that they're trying to go through those videos and make sure they're not releasing images of kids being sexually abused. And I understand that. You want to protect the privacy of the victim.

And she just said that takes time. I think they should release every adult who was culpable and responsible. I think the public should know. And I think they should be criminally prosecuted. I completely agree. Senator Cruz, great to have you on On Oncensor for the first time. Don't leave us along next time. All right, terrific. Thanks, Chris.

Please send all our very best wishes. I'm here in London to everybody involved in this terrible tragedy. I love Texas and Texan people. It's a really unspeakable tragedy. And our hearts go out to all of you. Thank you. Thanks very much. Well, I'm joined on the panel by Natalie Winters,

the White House correspondent for Steve Bannon's Warham, commentator and YouTube host Brian Tyler Cohen, streamer and political commentator Destiny, and Ben Ferguson, the co-host of The Verdict with Ted Cruz. Well, let me start with you, Ben, given that you work with Senator Cruz a lot. A, it was great to have him make his uncensored debut. And obviously, we focused mainly on floods. But what he said at the end there was really interesting, I felt, about the Epstein files.

Because this is raging away. You know, the administration, having got everybody very excited, you know, I had one of the administration on uncensored, Alina had. Let's remind people what she told me literally, like two, three months ago. It is incredibly disturbing. We have flight logs. We have information, names that will come out. Is it going to be shocking?

I don't see how it's not shocking, that there were so many individuals that were hidden and kept secret and not been held accountable. Let's talk about the reverse. I believe in accountability. So you have to now go through your process. Now, I won't say they're guilty until they go through their time in court. But again, now it's time for accountability. We have seen for so many years, Pierce in this country, many investigations, subpoenas, testimonies, in Congress, et cetera, et cetera.

But there's a general frustration with accountability. We take it halfway. We don't take it home. And I really believe that now with Cash and Pam, there will be accountability. Now, Ben, that clip has had millions and millions of views this week, understandably, because there's a massive disconnect between what she told me there and what Pam Bondi was saying and what others were saying. and what's actually materialized in the last 48 hours.

You know, Senator Cruz there very firmly that he wants everything put out and he wants criminal action taken against those who broke the law. What's your view? I couldn't agree more. Look, I think there's transparency the American people deserve, but not just the American people. Most importantly, the victims. They deserve to not have this be covered up in any capacity

or for people to just stop looking. I don't know if there's certain information. that has disappeared or wasn't there that they thought was there. But at the end of the day, all that we do have needs to be put out there in a responsible way. You have to protect the victims. That is something that's extremely important. And so it's got to be done in an orderly way. But there are too many people that have talked about this on the record saying that there's a lot of stuff out there to then all of a sudden say, all right, well, maybe we don't have it.

Maybe it's not there. Whatever the story is, give it to everyone. the same way and make sure you protect those victims, but they deserve justice. And I don't think this is going to be the end of this story. I think there's far too many people that are asking the questions that you just mentioned, that the senator mentioned, that I'm mentioning, and this should be nonpartisan, this should be non-political. You have children that apparently were sex, traffic, and abuse in horrific ways. That has nothing to do with politics. It should come out whether the people that were the perpetrators were liberal or conservative or

agnostic. It doesn't matter. You need to protect the victims, and we need to make sure things like this never, ever, ever, ever happen again. Right. Brian Tully Cohen, I mean, I do think it's a nonpartisan issue. Obviously, nothing is these days, but I do think that it is completely baffling to me, just as a journalist, that you have this extraordinary scandal that rages away for many years. The main perpetrator dies in prison and is believed to have taken his own life. But the only person that's actually been made criminally accountable and is now languishing in prison is Gilain Maxwell, his kind of madame figure, who's a woman.

So none of the other men who are widely believed to have been involved in this, none of them have been made accountable. What's your view of this? Yeah, I mean, my view is that this is a con job by this administration. All of these people, cashmen, Tell, Alina Haba, Dan Bongino, Donald Trump, all of them came forward and said that this was a priority for them because they were stringing their supporters along. And then the moment they get into power, here we are in a situation where the whole thing is just closed and we have no further information on this. And yet, you know, look, I think it would be fools to be surprised. I mean, this is a guy at Jeffrey Epstein who Trump himself palled around with for years. This is a guy who Epstein himself called his closest friend for tape. This is a guy who Jeffrey Epstein said was his closest friend for 10 years. This is a guy who Donald Trump appointed as a secretary of labor,

Alex Acosta, who handed him a sweetheart deal, a non-prosecution agreement, where he was out of prison six out of seven days a week. So, you know, look, Trump can say what he wants on the campaign trail in the lead-up when he needs to get everybody's votes and pander to the base. But at the end of the day, he's the guy in charge. And suddenly the about-face from everybody in his administration, the buck falls to one person. It's not Alina Haba or Carolyn Levitt or Dan Bongino or Cash Patel.

It's Trump himself. Right. I mean, Natalie, the interesting thing in terms of the timeline here is that when Elon Musk fell out pretty spectacularly and suddenly with Donald Trump, one of the things he posted on his ex-platform was, you know, bombshell. The biggest bombshell is that Trump's in the Epstein files, right? And that was only a few weeks ago. And since then, there seems to have been a concerted effort for this story to just go away.

Now, these two things may be completely unconnected. There may be nothing more to it other than Trump obviously was seen around Epstein. They clearly were very friendly for a while. I think he used his plane several times. I don't think that's in dispute. But there does seem to be a weird timeline here of Elon Musk saying that publicly

and everything getting shut down a few weeks later. Am I reading too much into this? Well, look, I think this is very quickly approaching. I mean, we've already passed debacle territory, but just outright grift, and that's probably not something that you would expect me to say, but this is just absolutely reprehensible. I think if you look at what really the MAGA base,

the people who elected President Trump, what their sort of concerns have been these past few months, is that the administration is not moving fast enough, right? They're not content with the press releases and the tweets. want to see prison sentences and actual accountability for people that they believe committed crimes. Now, we've hit the point where we're not getting, we're not even getting the press releases or the strongly worded letters. We're getting weird, undated, unnamed memos being released over holiday weekends to legacy media outlets, trying to bury it in Axios, instead of working with all

the new media outlets that the White House, you know, pumped and talked so openly and heavily about being in and around the White House. I mean, this is a bedrock issue. I know. I agree it's nonpartisan, it's non-political to want to get justice for the victims, but I also think that this is something that is both hyper-partisan and hyper-political, because what Jeffrey Epstein was doing, whether it's a foreign intel operation or domestic aside or joint operation, has direct ramifications in probably the policies that we've seen being rolled out, whether through blackmail indirectly or directly through a lot of the political leaders in this nation, I would just say, as someone who has been on shows co-hosted with a lot of the people, the clips that we've played of

people who have called out Jeffrey Epstein for years and made millions of dollars off of it. It is absolutely reprehensible and it is a complete grift. And you have now, in their words, probably become the deep state. If you're going to run cover for this and you think that the MAGA audience is dumb enough to not, I don't know, be able to go back two months and see the comments you are making on Fox News, we need to get this right. I don't even know if I have faith in Pam Bondi anymore, but this is a really, really concerning moment for MAGA. Yeah, I mean, Destiny is fascinating.

to see how a lot of the most diehard Trump supporters in the kind of podcast, YouTube, influencer world, they've turned pretty vengefully against him and the administration over this. What do you make of it? So here's the reality. The reality is, I keep hearing people like Joe Rogan saying the conspiracy theorists ended up being right about everything.

They weren't. They were wrong about basically every single thing. There was no massive election fraud. There were no mass deaths from the COVID vaccine. There is no evidence that it would, was manufactured in a laboratory. There is no evidence that Jeffrey Epstein was murdered by somebody. The reality is every single thing I said is true, and I will debate you on any platform

over that. The one on Instagram, please stop. You have no idea. You have no idea. Well, hang on. Descenaed. Descernate. I'm absolutely.

That's just stupid. Let me finish my point. Excuse me. Let me finish my point. The problem is that the problem is that you guys spent so much time spreading these conspiracies that when you finally wound up, when you finally wound up, sir, I don't You know, do you even believe that viruses and germs are real? I'm not actually sure.

Please stop. I do. The problem is that conservative spent all this time. Conservatives spent all this time. Conservatives spent all, well, if you want to bring me on your show, I'll talk about it anytime, anywhere, okay? Conservative spent all this time. I don't insult my audience with stupid comments.

Well, hang on me, let me jump in. Let me just jump in on this point. Can I, hold on, wait, wait, wait, destiny. Let me, wait. Well, you made a series of statements there about. And I'm almost in a one sentence. All right. Conservative spent all this time with all these conspiracies and then as soon as

they got into office and they no longer had a deep state to blame, all of a sudden there was no election fraud evidence. There was no evidence about a Hunter Biden being conspiratorial, you know, with Ukraine or Russia. There was no evidence of Epstein being murdered, and that's what's happened. They are now the deep state.

They have every part of the government under control, and they have no evidence for any other things, and that's it. Here's the problem. You've made a series of statements there alleging that all these things are pure conspiracy theories, and there's no evidence for it. And yet it is widely now accepted that actually it is more likely than not that the coronavirus, COVID-19, was started in that lab.

That is now widely accepted. That's not a conspiracy theory. It began as a conspiracy theory. I promise you, there is no scientific evidence. There is no compelling intelligence community evidence. That is the case. So you think, Destiny, to be clear. Hang on, hang on, you'll say, let me finish my sentence.

Let me finish my sentence. Here's the thing, Destiny. You think it's literally a conspiracy theory. The COVID-19, which was originally said to have started in a wet market, one mile from the Wuhan Institute of Virology, where it later transpired they were testing new coronaviruses. You think it is more likely it started with a bat in the wet market next door than it started in the lab where they're literally testing new coronaviruses.

You think that's a mad conspiracy? The wet markets? I would say the mad conspiracy is it's the back a mile away. I'm going to go with the wet market that was 30 minutes away in a densely populated city where all of the first cases started. It's probably a lot of the country. It's 30 minutes away. Chinese Communist Party.

Sir, you were an absolute idiot. I can't believe you're saying. You guys like, when you do your stuff, like, brought you by the Chinese Communist Party. Just to be clear. Just to be clear. It's funny that you say communists party, right? Just to be clear, the residents of Kerr County for the. floods that we were just discussing, rejected utilizing ARPA funds for years to put up.

It's so funny, Ted Cruz talked about an emergency siren system. They didn't want to use money from the Biden administration because of all of these crazy conspiracies that you guys spread about things like COVID because they thought that they accepted the money. The transcripts are public, the transcripts are public, sir? I'm sorry, hold on. Are you telling you, are you telling me they didn't say that? Are you telling me they didn't say that? We're kicking your ass and you made up something to try to go back and use kids that have died in a tragedy to cover the fact that you cannot defend your. your Wuhan point of view because it's made out of Chinese communist propaganda.

I think everyone watching can see that now. And I think you realized you stepped in it and you said something that wasn't true. And everyone that has a brain on this panel is calling you out for it because it was such a stupid thing to say. I'm sorry that happened to you. But you don't use kids dying in a flood to try to cover for your dumb ass comment. Oh, my goodness. Oh, by the way, I wonder been the others in.

I want to bring the other in safe. Hang on, hang on, don't all shout out once. So everybody could say he was running from it, okay? Don't all shout at once. Let me bring Brian back in here. See, this is the interesting thing I think, Brian. I read what Joe Rogan put out about conspiracy theories. He was really saying, really what he was saying was,

don't just dismiss them all out of hand, was his real theme about this. Because a lot of things are alleged to be conspiracy theories, and the COVID-Lab one is a classic example. Well, that began as being something that could get people canceled, if they even dare suggest it. And it's now, you know, the US CIA believes a research-related origin in Wuhan in the lab is more likely than the theory it came from animals.

So the CIA now believe that. So it's a longer conspiracy theory. But Brian, I think it goes to a wider point, is that take the Epstein story, right? I don't know whether he took his life or was murdered or whatever. It seems that most people who've looked at this professionally believe he took his life. But there's this weird video with the... missing minute and Pam Bondi's torturous explanation for what that may be

about. There's also the undeniable fact that he surrounded himself with a myriad number of famous, rich, powerful people who would have a vested interest in shutting him up. That is indisputable. There are also all these rumors flying around which even Alan Dershowitz thought there may be

some merit to this when I interviewed him on Monday that he may have been some kind of Israeli Mossad agent of some sort. You put all together. And again, it's very easy to say, well, it's all a conspiracy theory to say that he did anything other than he took his life and nobody else was involved. There's no client list. Nobody else abused these girls. It's over. I don't think that's the conspiracy theory. The conspiracy that's going on right now, it seems to me, is a conspiracy of shutting this down,

of silencing debate about it, wanting to move on. And for actually nobody other than Gillane Maxwell to be held accountable when it is, I mean, look, take Prince Andrew, right, in my country. Prince Andrew paid, Virginia Dufrey, a reported $11 million, right, but claimed he never met her, right? But there's a photograph of him with his arm rounder when she was 17, 18 in a London townhouse. Now, you know, call me a conspiracy theorist, but you don't give $11 million to someone you've never met, right? I don't care who you are.

So, again, a lot of the stuff. swirling around here doesn't make a lot of sense. And I don't think it's good enough for people just to say it's all conspiracy theory. So shut up and move on. Your thoughts? I would completely agree. And in fact, we saw yesterday when the White House posed these questions, Trump freaked out and said, whoa, whoa, why are we still talking about this? Like, can't we talk about something? You've got Donald Trump, who has spent every waking minute of the past almost decade talking about the water pressure in his shower and toilet. That guy suddenly doesn't want to engage in a topic that he's spoken about before. We've heard him go on and on about immigrants being rapists and

murderers. Every day, we've heard him go on and on for the better part of a decade about Hillary Clinton's crimes and the Biden crime family. This guy repeats himself like to the ends of the earth. And yet on the issue of Epstein, which by the way was an issue that his campaign predicated so much of their focus on, that they garnered so much support from their audience. based on, now he doesn't want to talk about it. So, yeah, I mean, I guess the expression that would come to mind is a hit dog will holler. Well, also, again, I'll repeat, this follows just literally, whatever it was three, four weeks ago, Elon Musk in their big public spat, suddenly posting, you know, the big bombshell is that Trump's

in the Epstein file. So it might be a move, by the way, that started a conversation about deporting Elon Musk, in case you were wondering whether there was any there. So yeah, I mean, clearly that he hit a mark by, or he hit a nerve by saying stuff like that. But, but I mean, for this administration to try and brush it under the rug. And Natalie, I do agree with what you said about there being a lot of grifters. I mean, we've seen Dan Bongino and Cash Patel focus so much energy, so many resources, so much time on this exact issue, only for them to come out and say, oh, well, there's absolutely nothing here.

But I would also caution, Natalie, to not put the onus. because I've been seeing this more and more on the right, to not put all of the responsibility on Pam Bondi. Pam Bondi is an appendage of Donald Trump. She's not calling the shots. Nobody in this administration is calling the shots. This entire cabinet, this entire White House, exist to serve Donald Trump.

They exist to basically be extensions of Trump himself, and no one will ever act independently of him. And so if accountability is really what you're looking for here, and I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume that this is all being done in good faith, then let's not delude ourselves into thinking that Pam Bondi is the final word or that the buck stops with her when the buck always stops with Donald Trump. I'm sure that there's merit to that.

Let me come to you, Natalie, because Elon Musk has also suggested that Steve Bannon that you work with, obviously, is in the Epstein files too. A, what can you say about that? I mean, what's the reaction to that, first of all? Well, I'll always let Steve speak for himself, but I can guarantee you. Steve is certainly not in the Epstein files. Perhaps Elon needs to both be deported and sued for defamation. But look, I think, you know, in a rare moment, I probably actually agree with Brian. I think that was why the Trump administration wanted to prioritize transparency, at least in their rhetoric, right, from the first days. they wanted the American people to be able to decide on all of this.

And I think that that sort of compounded with what they were trying to do, right, with the new media initiative, bringing in these other voices to try to, I think, go away from just having legacy media outlets dominate. Certain narratives are sort of setting the parameters for what stories are of interest to the American people. And I think when you talk about transparency, I don't know if the Chinese Communist Party or right now the Trump administration, whoever it may be, Deep State, take your pick, is engaging in more of a cover-up when it comes to, whether it's Epstein Files or the origins of COVID, respectively, I think that's a rather

assinine point. But to link it all back to what you were saying, peers, I think labeling all these things at the offset, at the onset, rather, a conspiracy theory compounding with, I think, a lot of sort of the censorship apparatus that we saw spring up under Joe Biden, you sort of get that same reaction to what people had when President Trump was sitting in his cabinet meeting and say, Why are people interested in this? Why are people looking at that? It just makes people double down. So even if you want to be pragmatic, respectfully, Destiny,

saying that there's no evidence, I think you can agree that there is at least one piece of evidence that may intimate that COVID-19 developed in the Wuhan Institute of Irology under Sherjungley. I just think these draconian statements make people not more likely to sort of entertain the other side of the fence, but it makes people think that there actually are conspiracies going on to cover up information. Yeah, I would agree. And Destiny, I'm going to take you off. Just to be clear.

Hold on, Destiny. She said in 2020. Destiny, I'm going to ask you a question. This was under Biden. I'm pretty sure that was under Trump. So if you want to blame anybody for the censorship, it would have been Trump. Let me ask you a question, Destiny. I want to ask you a question.

So a woman called Kylie Jane Kramer posted on X. I've been trying to wrap my head around how the flooding in Texas became so devastating so quickly. Why not evacuate? Then I saw this. Lieutenant Governor Dan Patrick said the Guadalit River rose 26 feet in just 46 minutes around 4 a.m. That doesn't even seem natural. To which you posted, you reposted this

and you put your own words, I heard God killed those kids because they were using NordVPN, promo code destiny, to get around the Texas porn ban. On reflection, do you think that was grotesquely tasteless thing to be posting? Absolutely not. The hand ringing here,

oh my God, stop. If you want to talk about dead children, you should talk about the residents of Care County who rejected using ARPA funds to build the very siren system that Ted Cruz was over here, virtue signaling about. Now that the kids are dead, last I checked, the siren system isn't bringing anybody back to life. Okay. The very same system that they could have built for the better part of the last decade, they didn't want to touch those ARPA funds because they thought that if they did, Biden would go and steal their homes, which is the exact same lie that was told in North Carolina when people were rejecting FEMA funds because they thought that if they did, Biden would go and steal their homes, which is the exact same lie that was told in North Carolina when people were rejecting FEMA funds. because they thought that if the government was giving the money for their houses, they'd steal it. If you want to talk about, if you want to talk about grotesque and ghoulish things that are being said, you're what you put online.

I agree with you. It's what you're actually disgusting. But I mean, I guess that's what you do. How long people like you, how long the people like you told us that if we spend less money in Ukraine, you guys are going to spend more money investing in things like infrastructure in the United States? Where is that money going? Again, we just had another massive debt increase. Another massive debt increase for.

more tax cuts for wealthy people. Congratulations. Thank you so much. All right. Let me get a how's the deficit doing? How's that deficit doing? Don't talk over each other. But just to be clear, destiny, you don't. Just to be clear, destiny. I'm going to talk. Please stop talking. I'm not going to argue about jokes when these guys are spreading lies that are leading to the actual destruction of these. Oh, except you guys do when it happens in L.A. when it's about the wildfires. I don't. I'm not a sick vile person like you. Go look at my ex account. I don't. Just the rest of you. Is just the rest of your parties? Don't twist over each other because we can't hear you.

All right. Yeah, okay. All right. But destiny, just to be clear, destiny, just to be clear, you don't regret posting. I heard God kill those kids because they were using Nord VPN to get around the Texas Twitter. While you allow the very same misinformation to spread on this program that leads to people, not putting up siren systems, okay, because they think that Biden is going to go steal their phones.

It wasn't my question. It's absolutely insane. Wasn't my question. It's insane that you want to go in handring liberals over jokes. that are not even half is crazy. Some of the things these conservatives say. Okay, but just to be clear, you don't regret doing it. There's no tweet like that out there.

Absolutely not. Just to be clear, you don't regret posting it. No, absolutely not. Okay. Ben Ferguson. Here's a couple of things here that I think there's proper information that should get out there. This scenario that I go too often, it's an area that I've taken my kids dozens and dozens of times. It's a very small rural community. When it rains there, there's always flooding because there's a lot of rock in the ground

the water does absorb in the ground, so you have flash floodings that happen very quickly. I've been there when this happens. This was a once-in-a-lif-a-lif-year flood. If you want to know about the funding for the system, it's an extremely small community, and the price tag for it is very, very big compared to the tax base that they have in the small community. It is not because of the Matt Boone stuff this guy's talking about. That is not why the community decided six years ago to not do it, even though they wanted to. It was a cost issue.

What's going to happen now is you're going to have state funds and federal funds, and that system will happen. But go back to this once-in-a-lifetime flood that took place. No one could have prepared or thought this was going to happen. People bought homes on a river where there is constant flooding, where they're built high enough up, that flooding has never gotten there before in the history of their lifetime. So this is a tragedy that took place. And by the way, this is personal because I know people who like that. children.

There are funerals that are taking place. Just to be clear, you're saying that they're saying let's finish finish destiny. So you're saying

there are no citizens saying that they don't want to use the American Rescue Plan funds they didn't want to use money because they thought Biden would take their homes. I'm going to go back to what I said.

That transcript doesn't exist. Can you let him finish given he was talking about the funerals of dead children? Please let him finish what he was saying. He doesn't care. As long as he makes he doesn't

give a fuck about the dead kids. That's okay. You know what he's just You don't give a fuck about the dead kids, do you? I do. Because you thought it was funny. You thought it was funny. You thought it was funny to go on X and talk about, I heard God kill those kids

because they weren't using a Nord VPN to get around the Texas form ban. That is disgusting. You're the one using dead children in a grotesque manner. So let me just lay that down for the record. Just to be clear, let me lay it down as well. How many people did my joke kill? No, it's just disgustingly nice. You're a sick man.

And then how many kids died because there's no siren system because people like this guy over here made up the lie that Biden was going to steal your homes if you accept American rescue plan. If you accept American rescue plan money. Exactly. I never made that up.

I would like to hear Ben. I would like to hear Ben finish the story he was telling us when he was talking about the funerals of dead children. So let me actually didn't have to have the funerals when that. Can we be better than you talking about why you were right to crack a sick joke? Ben.

Okay. I go back to the point here. This flood did not ask if you were a liberal or conservative, rich or poor, black or white or anything else in between. People lost their lives and many people lost their lives trying to save kids in an unprecedented flood. If we could go back, I'm sure this community would have said we'll figure out a way to have the money. You're dealing with an area that has a lot of volunteer. Post responders and firefight.

Can I finish, please? Like, maybe you'll learn something and not be such a tour. You just lie. You don't live there, you don't know. You've never been there. I've been there. I've talked to.

You don't know anybody that died in this flood. You're a POS. That's a sure. I would like to finish my point, peers. Finish it, Ben. Thank you. There are people that died in this flood helping try to save the lives of others.

There are elderly that died. I know people that lost children in this flood. They would love to go back and have a different warning system. By the way, we don't know if the warning system would have changed anything at all. The warnings came out early. Unfortunately, there's spotty cell phone there. Everyone's talked about this. I'm sure there's people in the community that wish they would have maybe done something different in the past.

Hindsight's 2020. But to say that the community decided not to do this because of some insane theory you've come up with, which is not true or based in fact. It was based on a small rural community with not a lot of tax base. and a very expensive price tag for something, and for you to sit here and to somehow decide that this is a place to say something so sick. I'm assuming you don't have kids.

I have six-year-old and eight-year-old kids. If you talk to parents that are planning their child's funerals are happening tomorrow and the next day here in Houston, I think you would have a little bit of a soul and a heart for them, but instead you're out here putting this crap out there. And it's really sad. I hope you get help. Let me bring in Brian. Brian, I want to talk just about a wider point.

connected to what Destiny posted, for which he shows no regret at all, which is entirely his choice, but I can say my feelings, which I have. A former appointee to a Houston City board said that Camp Mystic, where most of these poor young girls were at the time, was white-only, conservative and Christian, said Charday Perkins, a former member of the Houston Food Insecurity Board, said in the TikTok video, so take a look. I know I'm probably going to get canceled for this, but Camp Mystic is a whites-only girls' Christian camp. They don't even have a token Asian.

They don't have a token black person. If this were a group of Hispanic girls out there, this would not be getting this type of coverage that they're getting. No one would give a fuck. And all these white people, the parents of these little girls, would be saying things like they need to be deported. Now, A, I think that's completely untrue, what she said. B, it's completely disgusting to say that in the aftermath of this

when these poor girls, many of them are still missing, presumed dead. But then there was a paediatrician called Dr. Christina B. Probst, who's been fired after posting on social media. She's a pediatrician, this woman. May all visitors, children, non-Maga voters and pets be safe and dry. Kerr County MAGA voted to get FEMA. They deny climate change. May they get what they voted for.

Bless their hearts. And my question, Brian, putting that together with what Destiny posts, which again, for the record, I thought it was disgusting, Destiny. I've told you. You can defend it as much as you like, but it was just a sick, awful thing to post. And if you had any humanity about you, we'd delete it. But that's entirely your decision. But, Brian, I've seen this on the other side too.

I've seen this during the Biden administration when terrible things happened, that there's a race for people to get political, to play a race card, or play this card, or play that card, or just show a shocking inhumanity. And it's the very worst of society when that happens. What do we do about this? I think it's fueled by social media. People wouldn't be able to get the audience for this kind of thing

without TikTok, without Facebook, without X and so on. But it's a sick thing that this goes on when these terrible tragedies happen. Look, I obviously can't speak for what some random person on the internet tweeted about Camp Mystic. All I can say is, look, I try to have some sense of the fact that there are as many Republicans in California as there are in Texas, and there are as many Democrats in Texas as there are in major big blue bastions. And so I try to focus on that and recognize that a lot of these people are, you know, a lot of these people are, are fighting against the same system that I would be fighting against,

and I would, you know, obviously not attack folks in Texas. But I would point out that, you know, Ben said that, Ben said that, you know, these storms aren't partisan and that we have to try. I can't remember what Ben said. But, you know, the reality is that while the wildfires were raging in California, Ben and Ted had a podcast where they just attacked Ted, where they attacked Governor Newsom and Karen Bass. That was while the fires were still raging.

And so, you know, spare spare us the grandstanding and the virtue signaling about how this stuff doesn't get partisan. That was, this was, this was, here's Ted Cruz's tweet. Right now, everyone is horrified watching the LA wildfires. In today's episode of verdict, uh, we break down the catastrophic policy decisions made by Gavin Newsom and L.A. Mayor Karen Bass. While the fire, wildfires were still raging in Los Angeles while I was standing on my roof in L.A. spraying down my house with a hose to make sure that my house wouldn't set on fire when the when the fire was down the street within one mile of my house. Did you listen to the show? And so and so Ted Cruz decided to come out and make his entire episode, which by the way,

there is not- So I'll tell you what we said because I was on that show. Excuse me, let it finish. We were crying so much about people in order. Let it finish. I know. Ben is like arguing for like for destiny. You said we did a show. You're putting words in our mouth of something we didn't say. I read the tweet verbatim. That's what I did. Did you listen to the show? No, I actually, so I'll tell you what we did. Did you watch the lifetime movie? Did you see the documentary?

What we did was we talked about the decisions that were made in favor of remote his podcast. Well, let them say what do you think you said. Listen to the back. I'll redo the show in a very quick form. What we talked about were the decisions that were made with underbrush not being cleared out and the massive warnings that were coming. We did that we also talked about what the fire chief said about those warnings. We talked about the lack of water pressure.

We talked about them cleaning up some of the holding tanks. We talked about also the fact that there were certain things that were done to save fish over having the ability to fight these types of fires and everything that went into it. We talked about the decisions that were made that then made for a poor response that made you have to be on your roof, as you described it, sprang down because there wasn't adequate decisions that were made with those reasons that came through with the underbrush. You think the reason that I was on my roof was because while the Santa Ana wins were ripping through L.A. at 100 miles per hour and 50,000. acres of L.A. were burning that some, some, some bogus fucking story about the smelt about Delta smelt is why L.A. was burning. You're a joke, bro. You have no idea what you were, you have no idea what you were talking about. You have no idea what you're talking about. I'm quoting the people in your government in California. There is no, Ben, there is no amount

of water pressure in the world through these hydrants that are going to be able to put out 50,000 acres of fire. I didn't say that. You're talking about smelt and you're talking about no water pressure. I didn't say that the, if you turn on every hydrant, you know this, you lose water pressure. That's not what I said, by the way. Let me grant you, let me grant you the larger point, though. And I think the point that you're trying to make, I'll grant you this, even though you don't deserve it, and you're just going to spew a bunch of bullshit about smelt and water pressure. But let me, let me grant you the larger point and say that there are still things that people could do. And I'm not here to argue that California did a perfect job or does a perfect job with regard to how they,

to how they manage all of this stuff. But to that point then, do you think it's maybe a little stupid that Trump would fire 10% of Noah's workforce, which is about 1,300 staffers and researchers? Do you think it's a good idea then that Trump called for reducing Noah's workforce by a further 17% which would be another 2,000 staffers and researchers? Do you think it's a good idea that Trump slash 20% of FEMA's workforce? Do you think it's a smart idea to phase out FEMA completely? Do you think it's a smart idea that 25% of NWS's stations lack of media?

meteorologist. All this stuff is playing. So let's go, let's go back to the basics here. If you're asking about the size of government and the president making a decision to reduce the size of government when it makes sense, I have no issue with that. By the way, the staffing and the lies that were put out by many on the left in the media was that there was understaffing when it came to the warnings that were coming out from the National Weather Service. That was a lie. They were staffed above normal staffing levels. They held people over. the day before and the night of the storm in Texas. They had double the staff on staff when the storms were hitting.

There's a timeline of all the texts that were going out and the warnings that were going out. And so you're acting as if Donald Trump caused a problem with the flood and the response to it in the warning system, which is a lie. When you have double the staff, which is the protocol, by the way, under Obama, under Biden and under George Bush. so this is nonpartisan and everyone showed up for work and people were held over you're now just trying to score political points on the lives of dead children

for political reasons I do think you're looking at Hang on, hang on, let me bring in Natalie because it should be waiting patiently. Natalie, when I read out what Destiny posted there, what was your feeling about that? Well, I think that's probably the textbook definition of what it means

to be a grifter trying to profit off of dead children by pumping NordVPN and your promo code. It's reprehensible. I'm pretty sure you're an atheist. You don't believe in God. You certainly don't believe in traditional marriage. So I would expect nothing less that you would double down and defend it.

It blows my mind. I mean, I agree. Comedy's important, but I don't think, no offense, maybe shouldn't be a stand-up comedian if you want to start your career by posting about dead children. It's really not all that funny. And it really wasn't even a joke. you were trying to profit off of it.

So I think that's sort of a compounding evalness to what you did. What do we do, Natalie? Real quick, real quick, for compounding evilness, just so I could read this because it entered into the record, okay? I'm just curious if Ben wants to say, is this quote fake? Okay, so there's hundreds of these quotes, all right? At a county meeting, okay,

where the citizens are giving feedback on whether or not they should use the American Rescue Plan funds, all right? Citizen, Mr. R says there is a, there's not just a lack of transparency, but the Biden administration is pulling the wool over our eyes. If we see what's actually written, we make a clear decision. This is wrong.

Texas has been going in the right direction. I moved from Washington State a year ago. Washington is just falling lockstep with whatever this admin wants to do, and we're watching with clarity the damage. As far as COVID and the recovery money, the majority of the damage has been caused by the government. We're doing well. I'm a retired firefighter.

EMS, I love law enforcement. Do no harm is going by the wayside. Let me finish one more sentence. Do no harm is going by the wayside from. We're all familiar with that, and it's heartfelt, but it's going by the wayside for now. What would be money that would go against everything that we believe. Whatever good is in it, I don't want it. Are you telling me that that comment

and the hundreds of others like it are fake? Can you give me a yes to know before you ramble about whatever irrelevant? Are those comments fake? I'm going to go back to what I want to say. You said. Number one, that's why you can be doing college campus. I'm answering the damn question, dude. Like just chill for a second. Drink whatever hemp juice or that is. Okay. Keep going. All right. So, so number one, that's one person. Number two, if you weren't so dumb, if you, if you weren't So dumb. If you weren't so dumb. I go scroll out and find another one if you want.

If you weren't good, you found two. If you weren't so dumb, go Google the size. Go Google the size of the comfort Texas city hall. You can't fit hundreds of people in any meeting there. You moron. You found one. You act like there's thousands that showed up. They did not show up and say that on the record.

And people can go in. And then the people can go out. But if you look at how small the community is. If you see a room, Again, you would know that you're going to be. I believe that 100 people could see in that room of 10 go in. I do. Are we, do?

Do we forget this? Again, again, if you understood the size of the town, which you don't, because you don't care, because you're literally trying to make money off the dead people in Pergo, Texas. You would know that this is an insane thing in you're saying. You moron. The next time the power grid freezes, the next time another flood happens and dips just like you were up, you're saying, could we have ever seen it coming? Hey, you know what?

At least Marjorie Taylor Greets out here proposing legislation. to stop the Jews from putting clouds in the sky. So thank God we have you guys working hard on the problem, okay, to start the weather modification program from Bill Gates. Thank God, thank you. You stay up to 3 a.m. and watch the internet. Thank you, God. Okay, Brian.

Let's just talk on a bigger picture about, because it's interesting to me, the whole Epstein thing, for example, I think has been fueled the sequence of events by what Elon Musk put on on X. and he's now creating a third party, he says he is, the America party. It's never worked before, but we've never had somebody with his money or social media firepower to drive it.

So I don't think it should be dismissed out of hand. How dangerous an enemy can Elon Musk turn out to be for Donald Trump? If, for example, in the midterms, he decides to aggressively support, you know, anti-Trump candidates, for example, and his successful in doing, doing that and get some resonance for this party, this third party, and then that moves forward with some momentum to a general election. I mean, how big could this get? What's your feeling about the Musk-Trump meltdown?

I think it could go both ways. You could make the argument that the reason Trump is president right now is because Elon Musk gave him $300 million and campaign relentlessly in Pennsylvania, for example. So obviously there is a lot of weight that can be given. to a candidate by virtue of endless funds. Elon has that. On the flip side, look, I mean, he put forward this threat that he was going to make sure that whoever voted

for the big, beautiful bill was primaried. They all voted for it, except for Thomas Massey and, you know, Tom Tillis. And so they were not going to vote for it anyway. I'm sure that they're, I'm sure that Elon's tweet had, and Rand Paul, to Elon's tweet had no bearing on any of those three. And so you couldn't also make the argument

at the same time that that that his that his that his influence is waning in the republican party i think what's what's the the broader picture though is that you know this is this is uh elon is somebody who has you know Elon himself is no white knight here especially as it relates to to democrats this is somebody who you know predicate so much of his focus on eliminating waste fraud and abuse which by the way so do the Republicans but everyone is full of shit here Elon had carte blanche full reign of government with Doge. And instead of going after the biggest agency in government, which has failed seven audits, which is the Pentagon, he goes after USAID, which is one half of one percent of the budget and affords us soft power without firing a single bullet across the world.

He goes after the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, which saved, you know, billions of dollars for 200 million consumers. That is a fraction of the budget. He goes after the EPA, the NLRB, the Department of Labor, the Department of Transportation, every single agency that had an enforcement or fines levied against him are the ones that he focused on. And instead, the Pentagon gets a raise to a trillion dollars. So spare us on the grandstanding about reigning in a deficit, reigning in the federal deficit. But the same goes for this Republican Party. All of these people, House Freedom Caucus included, predicated so much of their identity

on this idea that we have to stop this existential threat that is overspend, and and saddling our kids and future generations with all of this interest that we're not going to be able to pay off. All these motherfuckers voted for it. All of these people are completely full of shit. They string their people along just like they did with the Epstein situation. They strung all their supporters along with these promises that they're going to be the fiscal response, that they're going to be the fiscal conservatives, that they're going to be the adults in the room. They get into office. They explode the deficit because the only priority they have. Not Epstein, not lowering costs, not adding jobs, none of that stuff. It is giving themselves

a tax cut. That's the only longstanding principle they have. It's all they did in 2017. It's all they're doing right now. Everything else is window dressing to con their supporters, their marks into thinking that they're going to help them. All right. Let me say this about him real quick, Elon Musk, and how this could be an issue. You go back and you look at guys like Jesse Ventura. You go back and you look at Schwarzenegger, you go back and you look at Ross Perrault. There is a history that when certain individuals see an opportunity and a third party comes about, that you can be a disruptor. If Elon Musk just wants to be a disruptor in the midterm elections, there is no doubt he can

pull it off. If he's smart about where he plays, if he tries to play nationwide, I think that would fall apart. But look, there's a tight majority in the House, a tight majority in the Senate. The Senate is leaning more towards the Democrats in the upcoming midterm election. it favors them in the election map and who's up. Yeah, I think Elon Musk, if you want to go in there and be a disruptor to Donald Trump, he certainly has the money to do it. And it's not just money. It's not just money. It's influence. He also has 200 million followers on his own social media platform.

Sure. And I think that played a big part in how Trump won. I think he got a lot of people to, on a daily basis, Elon Musk was all in on Trump. Yeah. But at the end of the day, I think Elon Musk is a really smart guy. I've spent time with him, interviewed him. I think he's probably going to look at this and say, hey, I want to rein in some of these things. I want you to hold true the Republican Party to what you claimed you were going to do, going back to the point that was just made a moment ago by the guest. He wants to make sure that the people that he helped get this power continue to do the right thing more often than they go and do other things. And so this is that shot across the bow. I understand why he's doing it. It does concern me.

you end up blown up the entire thing and the progress you made, we'll have to see how it plays out. Destiny, is there anything intrinsically wrong in the concept of a third party? Would it help? Help break the kind of, you know, very long-running, intransigent nature of the American political system? I mean, with most people, the math problem is that if you create a third party, all you're doing is siphoning votes off from another party that you're more likely to agree with.

But Elon might have a special advantage because in 10 or 15 years, it's projected that 5,000 to 100,000 of his children could vote for him in an election, so maybe that'll swing things a different way, you know. That's to see, that is a funny joke, Destiny. You've got it in you. Natalie. Well, the Republicans have it their way. If all those kids are in Texas, who knows how many will be gone to natural disasters

that could have never been, you know, prevented or screen for or anything else. So there you go. I'll make it offensive. You know what I felt about the debate part of that was what Senator Cruz told me, I thought, was a good way of describing it. He said, look, Actually, probably the big problem here, the only thing that might have made any difference

is if more people had been able to heed an alarm faster, it might have saved some lives because it happened so fast and it was so devastating. And the truth is, it's in an area where Apache cell phone, a lot of people wouldn't have got the messages. And had they had a siren system, it might have saved some lies. I imagine they will now all get siren systems. Pierce, can I ask you a question on that point?

And that is, like, look, notwithstanding the fact that Republicans have spent so much money handing themselves a tax cut, but ICE now has a bigger military, a bigger budget than the IDF, than Brazil's military, then Netherlands military, then Italy's military. If ICE was a military unto itself, it would have the 16th biggest budget in the world. And so think about all of the things that we can do in, I mean, you want to talk about America first. Think about all the things we could do in this country. Like, I don't know, giving a warning system to these. folks in rural Texas, for example, who could really benefit from that. But I don't think, yeah, but I don't think they're missing. Hang on, hang on, hang on.

Let me finish my sentence. Instead of fucking ground people. I don't think they're mutually exclusive. I can't think like the United States of America is still the, hang on, Ben, is the number one superpower in the world, right? The idea you can't do two things at once or 10 things at once or 100 things at once is nuts. Of course, I-

Excuse me, why is Ben saying that's saying? The Republicans have spent the last. five years telling us that. You can't spend money in Ukraine. You have to spend it here. You can't spend money on food stamps. You have to spend it on your American people. Every time it comes to cutting programs, you would understand what the point is. So I can explain that to you. You guys are okay with cutting some programs, but you never want to spend any money on anything else. Will you admit that will you admit that the budget is out of control and that Trump did absolutely nothing? Will you admit that? Will you admit that the budget is out of control of Trump did

that? He failed completely. How long have you had been doing TV together? A long time. You want to admit it. You want to admit it. You want to admit it. I don't listen to what I'm saying. It's not government spending. It's Donald Trump.

Your party has a moral failing that they're allocating by Trump. You're talking about trying to find kids in Texas. No, you've got horses galloping across MacArthur Park paid for it by the federal government. Donald Trump's federal government. Well, you admit to this is staying and controlling the budget. I'm in favor of getting out 20 million illegal immigrants. Did they fail at controlling the budget? Did they fail at controlling the budget?

We wouldn't have. to spend all that damn money. We wouldn't have to spend all that money if you guys were to secure the border. Do you know something? Do you know the truth? Do you know the truth? Do you know the truth from across the pond, if I may, raise a hand is I think the debt was in 1980 was a trillion dollars and now it's heading towards 40 trillion dollars.

And in that time, last time I, last time I checked in that time, there were a lot of Democrat presidents and a lot of Republican presidents. So it may just be, destiny. This is a problem which both parties. Bingo. Exactly. Which part? Which part?

Which both parties have contributed to? Who had the last budget surplus? What president was in? It's got to be now. Why are you laughing? Do you even know how members? You didn't even know how time worked earlier? So how do you support?

Here's 50 years of Donald Trump, Pierce. 50 years of Donald Trump being present. It's all right. All right. I want to give the last. It was Bill Clinton. It was. Okay.

Enough. Enough. Enough. Enough. Enough. I want to give the last word to Natalie. He's been waiting very patiently. Natalie.

Last word to you about this issue of Elon. Trump, the deficit, where this all goes, another party. Your quick thoughts? Well, Elon failed at Doge, not just the $2 trillion to $1 trillion to $9 billion. There should have been criminal referrals and indictments for all of the, you know, scams and schemes that they were talking about. And there wasn't one person, maybe one random USAID contractor sort of on a separate path. Good luck if he wants to start a party with what I think a foreign-born COO of it.

he might be getting deported imminently, so it'll be tough running the America Party from South Africa. Okay. On that note, we will leave it. I'm going to go and have my ears treated by an emergency medic. But thank you all very much. I appreciate it. Thanks. Thanks, Pierce. Well, join me on the phone now is Mark Epstein, Jeffrey Epstein's brother. Mark, good to have you back on Unsensored.

Thank you. Good to be here. We spoke about a year ago. If I could just ask you, first of all, your reaction to the Trump administration effectively saying it's now shutting down any ongoing investigation into the Epstein files, as they put it. What is your reaction to that? Well, you know, I've never really been that much involved with or cared about the Epstein files as far as the charges against them.

I had nothing to do with that. I wasn't part of it. As I explained last time, my concern is the fact that he was, most likely killed in prison. That's what I'm concerned about. And the fact that they're trying to hide that or trying to shield that and trying to put it off as a suicide where everything else points against suicide,

that's what I'm concerned about. There's been a lot of... Every time they say something or do something, like release this video, they're just digging themselves deeper into the hole. It seems like the lies are closing in on them. So explain to the viewers exactly why you believe your brother didn't take his own life and somebody else took it?

Okay, well, first of all, when I first heard that he was dead from the parent's suicide, I had no reason to doubt it. I figured, well, you know, he's in prison, what he was facing. He didn't have children or other parents are gone. I figured, okay, if he decided to take himself out, I would just respect that. But then, you know, we did the autopsy the next day, and the city pathologist who did the autopsy with Dr. Barton there, they both came out of the autopsy room,

and they said that they couldn't call it a suicide because it looked too much like a homicide. That wasn't my suggestion. That was them, the professionals. And then you get all the things that went wrong in the prison. You know, the cameras weren't working on the maximum security tier. The guards were in checking. There's just a lot of things that went wrong in the prison.

And then, you know, Jeffrey was trying to appeal his bail decision. And he had a hearing coming up, and it would have been an extremely large bail that he was offering. And that hearing was coming up soon. Now, I know Jeffrey, and I thought that if he had a chance of getting bail, he would wait to commit suicide to see if bail was denied, it would make it more plausible that he killed himself. But why would he kill himself literally days before he had a chance of getting bail?

That doesn't make any sense. That's another thing. And then when you hear the statements that come out, Like when Bill Barr first said he saw the videotape and he saw that nobody went in or out of the tier because the camera outside of the tier was working. He said no one went in or out of the tier. That convinced him it was a suicide. Well, that was a blatantly naive statement from the top law enforcement official in the United States because there were 11 or 12 other prisoners on that tier that could have killed somebody on the tier. And also conversely, to think somebody could get to their door, go inside.

kill somebody at least through that door, completely undetected, is just asheny. Because there's six levels of security before you get to that door. So if he was killed, it wasn't by somebody going into the tier and coming out of the tear. Was somebody already on the tier? Or he was killed when they locked up the tier at 10 o'clock at night or 10.30 at night before.

Let me just remind viewers, we had this conversation a year ago, but just for the record, do you believe that your brother was guilty of very serious? serious sex crimes? The only thing I know he was guilty of is that he was with girls that were too young. All the other crimes and accusations, I have no clue. I was involved. I wasn't there.

I hadn't seen Jeffrey for a number of years before his death. And we were always in communication via phone or email, but we lived two separate worlds. So I had no idea what he was doing. So, yeah, that's the only thing I could tell. I know he was good. The other stuff is not my business. involved. I don't know what the charges are. So I'm only concerned with the circumstances of his death. And had you been in contact with him when he was in prison?

When he was in prison. The last contact I had with him was the night before he got arrested. He was in Paris. He called me from Paris that night, just as a normal brotherly call, check up on each other. And then the next day he flew home to Tietaburor Airport, he was arrested at the airport. His attorneys called me and told me. he was arrested. The last conversation I had with Jeff was the night before he was arrested. He was obviously convicted

of a paedophile crime many years previously. Did he ever... He was convicted of prostitution or involving prostitution or something. That was in Florida in 2006 or something. With an underage girl, though?

Yeah, I believe so. Yeah, so that's a crime. I mean, that's made him a paedophile. Yeah, that's... He said the year in jail for that. Yes. So I guess my question is, as his brother, after that, did you have any discussions about that criminal offense

that he was found guilty of? I told him to make sure any in the future shows with girls that are not. What seems very clear is that he ignored that advice and carried on having all these girls. I don't know about that because from what I understand, what he was being charged with more recently, was stuff that took place back then.

I haven't heard of charges since that 2006 or 2008, whatever he got out. I haven't heard of charges that he was with underage girls after that. I haven't heard that. Maybe he was, but I didn't hear charges about that. The charges I was aware of took place back then. And part of his, I know part of his defense was going to be that when he made that deal back in 2006, he had a non-prosecution agreement with the government. after that. So it seemed like they were trying to prosecute him for things that he was supposed to have been safe from.

So I don't, like I said, I don't know if he was with, I don't know if there's charges that he was with underage girls after, you know, 2006, that episode. But obviously you will know the same things that we've all read about your brother, which is that he had this island. He took a lot of underage girls there. A lot of them have made very serious allegations about being raped and sexually assaulted. and abused, and the other rich, powerful people, men, were also involved, none of whom have been brought to justice. What do you feel about that? Was the case that we would have heard about some of these men? Why aren't these, quote, victims, why aren't they naming names?

Well, the suggestion is, there's been a big cover-up to prevent those names being released. You know, people know who these victims are. are, the attorneys know who these victims are. They could come out and say it. I mean, the Trump administration now says case closed. Do you think it should be closed, or should there be further investigation to establish exactly who else may have been involved? Well, again, I'm not concerned about that, to be honest with you.

I mean, if wrongdoing was done, people should be punished. But I don't know that wrongdoing's been done. I know that I'm concerned about my brother's likely murder. the Trump administration is also making it very clear that from all their investigations they believe it is indisputable and 100% certain

that your brother took his own life. Protecting. Look, when Bill Barr made the statement about no one, you know, it was a suicide because no one in or out, when Cash Patel makes a statement saying that you know a suicide when you see it. My question to him was how many suicides have he seen? scene, okay, where you take Dr. Roman and Dr. Biden, who did the actual autopsy, and they came out of the autopsy, and they said this looks more like a homicide than a suicide, then how does the Trump administration say overrule that? Dr. Biden has done about 500 autopsies on prison suicides over the last 50 years.

There's very few people with that kind of experience, and he's saying that to him this was not a suicide, it's a homicide. So, yeah, anyone in the Trump administration could say, I don't think so, but what's their backing? Like, like, Cash Patel said, you know, a suicide, when you see it, how many suicides has he seen? Is he a forensic pathologist? Is he a doctor? You know, it's a laughable matter that he can come out social where months ago he was saying that it wasn't a suicide. What is your message, Mark? to President Trump? Let me finish.

You got Bundy, you got Patel, you got bought. All of these people work for Trump. Okay? So if they're covering up for somebody,

who do you think they might be covering up for? So you think they're covering up for President Trump? Everybody is looking at little pieces of this and coming up with kind of theories. But people really take the time, because there's a lot of facts,

there's a lot of information. People take the time and really investigate this thoroughly, all come to the pretty much conclusion that maybe Trump was behind us. Wow. Maybe Jeff was killed as to cry them. You think President Trump has something to do with Epstein, your brother, being killed? I wouldn't write that off.

Because if you look at all of the evidence we have and all of the facts, not opinions, and all of the facts, that wouldn't be something I would dismiss. I mean, that's an extraordinary thing to say, but there is zero evidence that Donald Trump had anything to do with your brother's death. It's sort of maybe circumstantial, but if you look at all the people trying to make it look like a suicide, look, they just released a video of the door, you know, up to the tear,

and they're trying to make people think that that was the door to the cell, showing that nobody went into and around the cell. The video that was recently released was a video, door to the tier, the one that Bill Barr referred to. Now, here's an interesting fact. I asked years ago to the videotape from that very camera from 10 o'clock at night to tonight before until noon the morning that he was found. Because that would show who the last people on the tier were when they left and locked up the tier. And it would also show the condition and the circumstances when they took his body off of the tier, getting infirmary. I also want to see the

video from the infirmary. I haven't been able to get anything. I was initially told that I couldn't get it because it was an active investigation, so I couldn't get access to it. After the investigation was over, I asked again, okay? And I have in writing a letter from the door to the tier, the footage that Bill Barr referred to, they told me the cameras that were working don't show that area. And then a few days ago, they released the footage off. that very area and the very camera I was referring to. So first I couldn't get it because it was an investigation, and then they were telling me it doesn't exist.

And now it shows up, they release it. So it's just too much, you know, if this was purely a suicide, if this was really a suicide, this would be easy to saying that this was a suicide. They wouldn't have to go through all this machinations, or it's cover up and all this frankly bullshit. So what is your message finally,

Mark, what is your message to President Trump? Do you want him to reopen the investigation into how your brother died? My message would be, let me give you a list of questions that we can get people to answer under oath, and then we can maybe come to some conclusion. Okay, Mark Kepstein. Thank you very much indeed for joining me. You're welcome.

Bye. Please, Morgan, I sense that it is proudly independent. The only boss around here is me. If you enjoy our show, we ask only one simple thing. Hit subscribe on YouTube and follow Piers Morgan Unsensored on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. And in return, we will continue our mission to inform, irritate and entertain. And we'll do it all for free. Independent Unsensored Media has never been more critical, and we couldn't do it without you.