Piers Morgan Uncensored - ‘Should Be In The HAGUE’ Ehud Olmert on Netanyahu | Plus Cenk Uygur vs Jonathan Conricus

Episode Date: June 2, 2025

The IDF has fiercely denied Hamas reports that its forces opened fire on crowds of Palestinians as they made their way to an aid centre in southern Gaza. What neither side can deny at this point is that the scale of death and suffering is intolerable. Jewish people have been very recently killed in hate-fuelled attacks in the US - and it goes without saying that the mass killing of innocent Palestinians by Netanyahu’s forces is doing nothing but grave harm to the Israeli cause. Nineteen months into this war, Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert joins Piers Morgan to tell him “enough is enough” and why he thinks the President should be jailed for war crimes. Then, Uncensored is joined by retired Lt Col and former IDF spokesman Jonathan Conricus and founder and CEO of ‘The Young Turks’ Cenk Uygur. Piers Morgan Uncensored is proudly independent and supported by: Tax Network USA: Call 1-800-958-1000 or visit https://TNUSA.com/PIERS to meet with a strategist today for FREE Jacked Up Fitness: Go to https://GetJackedUp.com and use code PIERS at checkout to save 10% off your entire purchase Beam: Visit https://shopbeam.com/PIERS and use code PIERS to get our exclusive discount of up to 30% off. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

They want to see the Palestinians out of Gaza. This is part of their grand design. What is it, if not a crime? So do you think he should be at the Hague? I have to say it, yes. Should Donald Trump be doing more? He is the voice of restraint and of reason. Him summoning Netanyahu into the Oval Office and tell him,

Netanyahu, enough is enough. Nothing gets you a redder carpet in international media than in his I'm not really hoping and gladly bashing Israeli politics. Well, brother, I got news for you. That's not what happens in America at all. You love violence. You absolutely love violence. These are anti-Semitic tropes.

These are blood libels. Let me just ask you. We don't get to speak about bigotry. You're lecturing me about tech for terrorism. You're a pile of nonsense. You're a cheerleader for terrorists. Why don't you put on an outfit in a pomp on? The IDF has fiercely denied Hamas reports that its forces opened fire on crowds of Palestinians

as they made their way to an aid centre in southern Gaza. Letis massacre could have been perpetrated by terrorists or by Hamas itself, as ever we cannot for sure say because the IDF doesn't allow journalists to operate freely in Gaza. What neither side can deny at this point is that the scale of death and suffering is intolerable and the anger and devastation is rippling across the world. Muhammad Solomon, an Egyptian national, has been charged with murder today after attacking a small and peaceful rally

of Jewish people in Colorado with homemade petrol bonds. A young couple who worked at the Israeli embassy in D.C. were shot dead 10 days ago by gunmen shouting free Palestine. It should go without saying that attacking innocent Jewish people is sick and depraved

and does nothing but grave harm to the Palestinian cause. It should also go without saying that the mass killing of innocent Palestinians by Netanyahu's forces is now doing nothing but grave harm to the Israeli cause. We are 19 months into this war. It began as a justified response to an appalling terror attack. But it's become a senseless program of punishment by starvation and extermination.

It has to stop. Last week, former Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Omar recused his country of committing war crimes in damning remarks that made global headlines, and he joins me now. Ehud Omar, thank you very much indeed for joining me on unsighted. censored. You made some comments last week, which, as you know, generated a huge amount of attention. I happened to be in the Middle East at the time, and they were the main news item for several days. First of all, let me just ask you, what has the reaction been from where you sit now to what you said? Have you been surprised, not surprised?

Well, I get mixed comments. There are many, many, many Israelis that call. me, thank me, message me, thanking me for speaking up for them for what they think and what they feel and they are anxious that there will be a voice coming from Israel which will be different from the voice of Benavir and Smotrich and Netanyahu's and a group of thugs which is now part of the Israeli cabinet. And I think that this is something which I consider to be very important. The international community, guys everywhere, that watch you, they watch other channels, will know that there are many Israelis that were absolutely in favor of the Israeli counteroffensive

on the 7th of October. And since then, for a long time, for good reasons. Because Hamas murders had to be reached out and eliminated. And we did a great job for almost 20 months. but the time has come to stop it. And this is the time. And the fact that the government continues this operation, when everyone knows that there is not any purpose

that can be achieved by an expanded military operation, that Israeli soldiers are going to be killed, that we are going to lose the hostages, which is the primary, the most superior objective that there should be for us to save them, and that also non-involved Palestinians will be killed. This is something which is unacceptable, and this is what I try to say. And I hear the other voices coming from Israel as well.

Of course, I'm criticized. The poison machine of Netanyahu is working day and night to oppose me and to slender me, which is expected. I'm not intimidated. One of the sticks they use to beat you in terms of criticism is that, of course, you were convicted of recess. receiving bribes and you went to prison for that. What does it have to do?

Well, no, I'm just saying that's one of the criticisms that people use against you this week has been, why should we? They use against me. They use against me this all the time. I'm not going to run into this. Certainly not at the time when the Israeli prime minister, present prime minister of Israel, who is defended by some, is facing charges of bribe and what not for a court case

which runs all already for four or five years. So that has nothing to do with the question of whether or not we should continue the war now. Yeah, just to be clear, to be clear, it wasn't coming from me. I'm repeating, as you know, it's been one of the criticisms that people have leveled that you to try and silence you. They say, well, why should we listen to this guy? What do you say to them? Those who don't want to listen to me, they can shut up the televisions or the radios or don't

read my articles. The fact is that there is a demand precisely for this because people know that when I was Prime Minister, things were done in an entirely different way. I was never, by the way, indicted or even inquired about anything personal that I did at time of prime ministership. So my record as prime minister is completely clean. And I, you know, it will be a waste of time to even plunge into this kind of controversy. Those who don't want to listen to me, don't listen. Those who want to listen to me, and there are quite a few in Israel, and I believe overseas, I get reactions from across the world. After watching me,

probably now even more after watching here with you, but at CNN, at ABC, at NBC at other places, and they entirely sympathize with what I have to say. When you say that Israel's forces are now committing war crimes, that's obviously a very serious charge. Do you believe that this will inevitably now end up in the international criminal courts at the Hague? Well, again, up until recently,

There was an international consensus that the Israeli operation was inevitable and acceptable and justified. And I entirely subscribed to this, as most of the Israelis did for obvious reasons because of what happened on the 7th of October. And the continued consistent war of terror that was perpetrated by Hamas for years and years and years, which was culminated on the 7th of October by this mass killing of innocent people in their homes, in the living rooms, in the bedrooms, in the bedrooms, in their sex. safe rooms, raping, butchering, beheaded, beheading people, mothers, children, elderly people. The Israeli reaction was inevitable and acceptable. It was endorsed by the international leadership, you know, Joe Biden, Risha Sonek, President Macron, Chancellor Schultz, and so many others. but 20 months passed since then, everything that can be achieved by a military operation has been achieved.

And tens of thousands of Palestinians were killed. Probably a large number of them were fighters of Hamas, and they deserved the punishment, okay? But thousands were not. And now the question is, what else can we achieve by expanding the military operation, which can justify the cost? The cost for us, the cost for the hostages, and the cost of non-involved Palestinians. And the filling is that we have come to a point where a leadership decision has to be made to stop it. And the majority of Israelis believe that Netanyahu carries on and wants to expend it, not because of any national interest that justifies it, but because of political considerations.

What is it, if not a crime? So do you think he should be at the Hague one day for this? Look, there should be a voice, and if as a result of the fact that I was my minister, and I'm fairly well-known in the international community that people want to hear what I have to say. I have to say it, yes. I'm prepared.

I'm ready to, I'm already in the middle of the heat, you know, of those who oppose me. But I think I should do that. Tax Day has passed, but for millions of Americans, that's where the trouble begins. The IRS is now ramping up enforcement for those who miss the April deadline or still owe back taxes. Well, today's sponsor, Tax Network USA can still help. If your books are a mess, you're self-employed, or if you're a business owner, Tax Network USA specializes in cleaning up financial chaos and getting you back on track quickly.

They say the IRS is applying enforcement pressure at levels they've never. never seen before. But even after the deadline, it's not too late to take control. The consultation is completely free, acting now could stop penalties, threatening letters and surprise levies before they escalate. Call 1-800-9-58-1000 or visit tnusa.com slash peers. That's tnusa.com slash peers. Let Tax Network USA make the next move, not the IRS. It seems to me, and I don't know what your assessment would be, but it seems to me that Benjamin Netanyahu has been hijacked by some very right-wing people like Smodrick's, Ben-Givir and others in this cabinet, who have always spoken in a kind of genocidal language

about their aspirations for what should happen in Gaza and to the Palestinian. Indian people and that Netanyahu has been dragged, as you say, for more for personal motivational reasons to their way of thinking because he knows the moment the war is over, then he will be held accountable for what happened on October the 7th. And secondly, he will be facing corruption trial himself, as you said. So there's no motivation for him to end the war. And now it seems that the whole attitude from the Israeli government is being fueled and driven by these very right-wing people like Smodrich and Benghavir

who really do want to see all the Palestinians out of Gaza. They want to see the Palestinians out of Gaza in order to resettle there. They don't want to see them deported because they want to prepare the ground for a Trump Tower hotel as maybe some interpreted statements of President Trump to me. They want it because they want to resettle there, and this is part of their grand design.

They want to do the same in the West Bank. Already now, they are inspiring the Hiltop youth, which I call the atrocious youth, for almost daily attacks against Palestinians in the West Bank, Palestinian Arabs in the West Bank. And they are burning their groves, olive groves, olive groves, they are burning their homes, they are taking people, they're killing people. This is totally obnoxious and something that can't be tolerated. Unfortunately, it's tolerated because the fact is that it continues, and in most cases,

the ones that are arrested at the victim Palestinians, is not the Israeli attackers. And this is part of what I am campaigning against. Now, a question that you have outlined is whether Bibi is captive by these guys is willingly captive. It's not something that he's fighting against, that he's trying to stop. He is willingly captive by these messianic, extreme fundamentalist, white-wingers, supporters of Jewish terror, because it's true that this is the only probably... the only escape he has from what awaits to him, but also because the fact is that for the last 15 years, Netanyahu was the guy that ignored the Palestinian Authority, which was a potential

partner for peace negotiations, and was supporting Hamas, the financing of Hamas through Qatar, but with the agreement, support and cooperation of the Prime Minister of Israel, was the thing that changed the balance in Gaza and allowed the... Hamas to build a network of tunnels and the infrastructure for war. So this has been the policy of the Prime Minister of Israel for a long time. Until the 7th of October, it could be argued that somehow there was not an evidence of what may be the terrible outcome of this policy. But after the 7th of October, I think a large number of Israelis understand what was the tragic consequences of these reckless irresponsible.

pre-truth policy of the Israeli Prime Minister. And finally, I have to say on this point that it's true that he is presently because he is captive by the right-wing messianic groups and he still entertains a majority in Parliament, he can carry on. But already now, according to all the polls that are run almost on a daily basis,

the majority of the Israelis, not only that they don't support him, They don't trust his motivation. They say explicitly and loudly that they think that he prefers personal considerations over the national interests of the state of Israel. And that's precisely why people like me, in spite of the possible reactions by all kinds of oppositioners, are prepared to step up, come forward, and call it out by its name, because it's a time that the international community will know. that there are different voices from Israel, the voices of compassion, the voices of compromise,

the voices of peace, the voices of dignity, the voices of care for human lives, also when there are not Israeli human lives, but also non-involved Palestinians. Netanyahu won't do this, but should he resign? Should have resigned long ago. He should resign any moment. Should resign now while we speak.

I think the only contribution that he can make to the well-being of the state of Israel and perhaps also across the board for the Jewish people is for him not only to resign but to disappear from the landscape of our political and public life. Finally, obviously America still holds a lot of sway with Netanyahu and the Israeli government. Should Donald Trump be doing more to stop him? Is he the only person that can actually stop Netanyahu now? Mr. Morgan, I have to say, I entirely agree with your judgment, and I want to add something. You know, it is entirely irrelevant what people may have thought about Trump as a president,

whatever. I think that at this point, he is the voice of restraint and of reason, and the impression that I have, and I must say I know all the previous presidents of the United States, I've known them for years. Him, I don't know. I haven't had any contact with him ever. But he impresses me as the only guy at this point that can make a change of direction, which will be enormously helpful to the real national interest of the state of Israel. to understand at this point that the most significant expression of support for the state of Israel

and the Jewish people is by him summoning Netanyahu into the Oval Office, put him on a seat that Netanyahu likes very much together with him in front of the cameras, and tell him, Netanyahu, enough is enough. He can do it, and it will be supported by the entire international community. President Macron, Prime Minister Sturma, Chancellor Merz, all the others, Prime Minister

Kani from Canada, all of them already spelled it out. It's now time for President Trump, with the enormous power of persuasion that he possesses to say to Netanyahu, that's all. Enough is enough.

For the good of the people of Israel, for the good of the chances for peace with the Palestinians. Ehud Omer, thank you very much indeed. I really appreciate you coming on uncensored. Thank you, sir. Thank you. Listening to what Israel's former Prime Minister had to say

was retired Lieutenant Colonel and former IDS spokesman, Jonathan Conrickis, and the founder and CEO of the Young Turks, Cheng Yuga, well, welcome to both of you. Jonathan, we've talked a lot since October the 7th on this show, and I've always admired the fact that you come on and you will sometimes, to my eyes, defend the indefense of all.

but you give it a good go. Can you, in all conscience, defend what has been happening since the implementation, particularly of the blockade, which was effectively a sanctioned starvation program of many of some Palestinians? Yeah. Hello again, Piers. Nice to be on. I will, of course, answer that, but I think I would like, with your permission,

to reflect on what Ehud Olomel said, because there are very grave accusations. And I think the most important part of his politically motivated accusations, which many Israelis probably would agree with some or other parts of it. But the substance of it, and basically his ticket to the show, is saying Israel is committing war crimes. And when you asked him what his evidence for this is and why he says such a grave thing, he brushed it by and he didn't substantiate it with everything.

And I think that's worthy of pause. And if we want to be serious in the discussion here and not only have a internal Israeli political debate between two formal political rivals, which is the context of Ehud Olmelt and Netanyahu, then I think we have to be serious. And I clearly today believe that while the IDF for sure has made mistakes on the battlefield, categorically has not been conducting war crimes, and all the talk and hyperbole and nonsense and false claims and allegations and Hamas's media propaganda that we see up until this minute as we're speaking, I think are fueled not by the pursuit of truth and not by anything that is something that we should espouse to, but really motivated at trying to force

Israel to its knees and to stop Israel from fighting and for Israel not to be able to defeat its enemy. Studies show that strength training burns more fat than cardio alone and is critical for maintaining muscle mass and bone density as we age. Jacked up fitness has the perfect tool. The jacked up power rack pro is the ultimate all-in-one home gym system for a full body workout and you can do it in your spare room or garage. I'm delighted to say I now have one myself.

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That's get jacked up.com Right, but Jonathan, I agree with the problem, Jonathan, let me jump in, let me jump in. The problem you have is that if this was all coming from the pro-Palestinian lobby, then, okay, fine, you could respond the way you just have. But you don't just have one former Israeli prime minister saying all this.

You have two. You've got Ehou Barak as well, who's come out very powerfully denouncing what this government is doing. They're not even the same politics. the two Ehud's. So you've got two recent former prime ministers of Israel who are condemning in the most strong language imaginable what your country's government is doing. That is the problem. It's not outside voices. It's not me. It's not Palestinian. It's not Cheng. I'm sure in a moment will respond in his normal, inimitable fashion. This is two former Israeli prime ministers.

Yes. These are two former Israeli. prime ministers who have political vendettas against Netanyahu, which many Israelis share. I'll put myself out of the context of the political situation, but I will say this. These two people have also been campaigning against Netanyahu before the war and during the war. And I know from personal experience that nothing gets you a redder carpet in international media than in Israeli hoping and gladly bashing Israeli policy. I've seen it and experienced it myself that the moment that I was willing to criticize Israeli government or the IDF on TV, red carpets and open doors everywhere.

The moment that I indicated that, in fact, I was not going to be bashing Israeli politics and I was not going to slander the IDF or the Israeli government, whether I agree in whole or I don't agree with Israeli government or whether I feel that they represent me or not, but I wasn't going to criticize it on TV. then door started closing. And I think that what Ehud Olmert is enjoying is that very warm embrace of the so-called international community, which is happy to have an Israeli of importance, critical of Israel, and to give him a point of view.

And I think that is not entirely fair. And yes, there are points that Ehud al-Mert and Barak are making that are valid. I, as an Israeli, have questions, and I am not happy with how long this war has been going on. I would have wanted for us to decide the war a long time ago,

to have defeated Hamas a long time ago, to have started to distribute food and to do what we're doing now, to have done that half a year or a year ago. That would have hastened the demise of Hamas, that would have pulled the rug underneath the feet, and that would have alleviated civilian suffering in Gaza. And I think that is what we should have been doing,

and my criticism to my government is, what took you so long? Why didn't we do this earlier? And why didn't you, Prime Minister and the cabinet, create the conditions, the international conditions necessary, to do this earlier? Why have my fellow countrymen been in Hamas captivity for more than 600 days? And I think there's a lot of criticism in Israel towards the decisions by the Israeli government.

But I think that Ehud Olmelt and Ehud Barak are politically motivated and they should be taken into the context of political rivals of Netanyahu. Okay. Chank Yugi, be waiting very patiently, albeit your facial expressions have revealed that you're not entirely agreeing with everything you've just heard. So over to you. Yeah, of course, what he's saying is total nonsense. And I mean, if I understood him correctly, he said that he would have started starving the Palestinians a year and a half ago. What a humanitarian. All right. I agree completely with Ehud Olmer. I saw him in Europe a couple of months ago. he's actually working on a peace plan that I think is very, very workable and doable. They could probably get it done immediately if they actually wanted peace. In fact, Olmert was also the only person who offered a real and decent peace plan back in 2008.

So currently the real question here, and you touched on it a little bit in your interview peers, but we really don't talk about it nearly enough, is what is the goal of the Israeli government? So the goal, I don't think, is just genocide for genocide's sake. They're doing the genocide and the ethnic cleansing to steal Gaza. So you can call it a different word. You can say acquisition, conquest as they have in their Knesset and in their cabinet meetings. They say, we're going to conquer Gaza. They have a map of greater Israel.

And right now, by the way, they're in southern Lebanon and Western Syria. So they keep attacking, conquering, killing, starving. And all the while, by the way, in the West, saying, we're the victims. I mean, look at all these Arab countries we invaded and took their land and subjugated their people for 58 straight years. But you see how we're the victims. And this brother over here is claiming that the red carpet rolls out for you if you criticize Israel. Well, brother, I got news for you. That's not what happens in America at all. You potentially get arrested, deported, canceled. Your job career prospects are nullified.

And people like Bill Ackman proudly say, I have a blacklist of anyone who dare to oppose Israel, and I will make sure they never get a job on Wall Street. It's disgusting. It's the exact opposite of what he claims. And, of course, if you ever dare to support innocent Palestinians, you'll get smeared in eight different ways. And so, look, are they going to conquer Gaza and take it for themselves? And this was never about self-defense? Or are they, oh, so worried about.

terrorism and they can't wait to get out and get to peace. No, get real. The Israeli government has no interest in peace. They have blocked every single ceasefire deal on the premise that, no, we will continue the war after the ceasefire. So, well, that makes no sense. Why would the other side, I want them to release the hostages? I think it's terrible, but Hamas did on October 7, then terrible that they took hostages. But if you're being realistic, why would the other side say, yes, I'll give you the hostages back so that you could go back to murdering and slaughtering and conquering Gaza 60 days later. That makes no sense at all. So we have to resolve, and the Israeli government must be asked over and over again, because they've already declared it publicly.

So there's actually no question about it whatsoever. This is not a war of defense. This is a war of conquest. I didn't say that. The Israeli government said that. So let's call them out for who they are. Their imperial empire, who has done terrorism to seize land, and they've starved people. people to death, it's like the Germans going into the Sudetenland. Let's be honest about it for once in our lives. Beams creatine is America's number one, and it's made by company founded on values like hard work and delivering real results. Creatine is often dismissed as just for bodybuilders, but the truth is that it's one of the most researched, effective, and safer supplements for supporting strength, brain health and longevity. Quality matters, of course, and beam creatine

delivers. There's no fillers, no sugar and nothing synthetic, just clean science-backed creatine for strength, focus and results. We've teamed up to give you up to 30% off their best-selling creatine for a limited time only. Go to shopbeam.com slash peers and use the code peers at checkout. That shop beam, B-E-A-M-com slash peers, P-I-E-R-S, use the code peers for up to 30% of. These sales don't happen very often. This is the lowest price you'll find anywhere for a product of this quality. Go to shopbeam.com slash peers and use the promo code peers for up to 30% of. Yeah, I mean, Jonathan, you know, I'll get you to respond. But, you know, when you look at what Smodrich said last week that was on camera, the intent is crystal clear as far as he's concerned.

And when I put to the Israeli ambassador to the UK in a very heated interview that we did last week that he was effectively articulating a form of genocide, indisputably, because he wanted to clear out every Palestinian from Gaza and take it for Israel. She emphatically denied what we'd all heard with our own ears. She then emphatically denied that Israel had killed any children. She then told me exactly how many Hamas terrorists the IDF had killed, 30,000, but she couldn't tell me even a ballpark figure of how many children had been killed in the process, which, which I found a quite extraordinary response, where she knew one figure very precisely,

almost like the IDF only count the Hamas terrorists they kill, they don't count any of the civilians they kill, which I just do not believe. And if it is true, that seems despicable to me. But she was a complete denial. And my original question for you, before you responded to what the former prime minister said, was when you see a policy of,

a blockade which can only be construed for what it is, which is a policy of starving the people of Gaza. And we're now seeing these terrible scenes where food arrives in thousands of Palestinians race and fight each other to try and get it. And I don't know who killed them and wounded them the other day. I know it was reported by Reuters and others that it was IDF. The IDF emphatically denied it. They said it must have been Hamas and so on. We don't know, But the main reason we don't know, Jonathan, which is another of my massive bug bears about this, is that the IDF still refuses to let international journalists go and do their job and verify their stuff for themselves, unlike in every other war zone there's ever been.

So for a number of reasons, this Israel government's policy right now has completely lost people like me that were very prepared, as you know, and as Jake knows, for a long time to defend Israel's right to defend itself. This has gone way past defending. the people of Israel. This has moved now to taking control of Gaza, kicking all the Palestinians out, starving civilians if necessary for the last three months. And when it comes to the killing of children, there have been an estimated, I don't know the exact number, but an estimated 20,000 or more children have been killed in this war so far. For Israel, to deny that is to deny the obvious.

isn't it? Okay, so a lot to unpack. I would like to respond to what Cheng said before, but I think you touched upon an issue which I think is key and that is the whole human, the issue of intention, one issue, and the second one being the humanitarian one. Now, I'll remind you and Cheng, and I'll remind everybody watching that Israel was not occupying five points in southern Lebanon, was not deploying troops in southwestern Syria along the Israeli border and definitely did not have any troops inside Gaza on October 6th. We were attacked from all those fronts by various terrorist organizations that very clearly sought to conduct genocide of Israelis in their homes. And I think this is well established.

I totally agree. I think that we should recognize this. Of course. And I think we should recognize it because that is how we started. Second thing, with common that Minister Betalice Smortich did or didn't make. I've heard many of his comments, and I'll tell you that personally, I do not agree with many of them. And I would say that while he as a minister and as member of a cabinet certainly has influence,

based on the actions on the ground by the IDF in almost a year and a half of fighting, I wouldn't say that that is the real policy enacted on the ground. I will not deny that there are parts of Israeli society democratically elected that espouse certain types and have certain feelings towards Palestinians. I do not think that that is what the IDF is executing on the ground. Really? Have that been the case?

Yes, Jonathan, hang on. Just on that point. On that one point. But I want to touch on humanitarian before we go. Let's come to that. Let me just jump in. I need to challenge you when you say something that gets my hackles up. The idea of the IDF is not pursuing this policy, when the IDF is systematically destroying Gaza,

you know, 70% of Gaza reportedly has been destroyed. Again, these cannot be completely... Well, there's good reason for it, Pierce. Well, hang on, hang on, I'm going to come to... But hang on, Jonathan, let me finish. When you destroy 70% of a place like Gaza, and you reduce the population to a shuffling herd of people, move from pillar to post with no home who are being bombarded on a nightly basis

by the IDF from the air who are, as we saw last week, there's a family of nine children out of ten killed in one of these air strikes and you're starving them with a three-month blockade, right? You put it all together. No, we're not starving them.

Everything you said, I agree, but we're not starving. Okay, we'll come to that. And I want to speak about the humanitarian as well. Okay, and you can when I just finish the point. You say, you know, Smodrich may or may not have said this. He indisputedly said what we heard him say. And he's not just any old minister. He's the finance minister for the Israeli government.

He's one of the most powerful people in the country. And he's been one of the most vocal people in that government from the start of this war. So the idea he's not a driving influence for this government is for the birds. No, I don't think so. And I think that, yes, as I said and acknowledge, he definitely has, influence, and I will agree with you, I'll correct myself, he has significant influence over Israeli politics and over the stability of the Israeli coalition. Having said that, when I judge and when I analyze what the IDF has been doing on the ground, I can explain and justify very easily

why so many structures in Gaza have been destroyed. And it is directly linked to military necessity. each and every house that Israeli troops have encountered has had military infrastructure in it, each and every mosque, each and every hospital. Some, not all, but many UN facilities are happening. It cannot be true. It cannot be true that every single peers. You'll say that, hang on, just to be clear.

No, not every single. You said every house they have encountered in Gaza has contained military infrastructure. That is obviously not true. Obviously, you know, based on what, Pierce? I can tell you that I know from soldiers and friends. ...cilled in homes with no military

infrastructure. I would disagree with you, and I would say this. The amount, the percentage of so-called civilian houses in Gaza that Hamas has used either for the placement of weapons or for the location of fighters,

otherwise known as terrorists, or for infrastructure, or for collecting intelligence, is tremendous. You wouldn't, I understand that you refuse to believe it because the numbers are tremendous. How can we believe it when the IDF won't let journalists or the government won't let journalists from outside of Gaza go in to examine this stuff? Chek, your response to this. Pierce, here you and I are in agreement. Well, yeah, but it remains, it remains a scandal that international journalists are prohibited from going in. It is a scandal and it makes it very hard

to believe, frankly, anything that the IDF now says. say because how can we verify it? They launched their own inquiries. You know what I think is a scandal, peers? Well, go on. I think what is a scandal is how international media, including in the last 36 hours, have been taking and regurgitating Hamas propaganda and talking points

and reporting their actual. I have on. I have, but in your introduction, okay, but I didn't. In your introduction, peers, you made a very correct, I think you made a very correct connection between events, in Israel and events in the U.S. and in Western Europe where we see anti-Israeli propaganda and hatred spewed in international media. And we see the results in real world. Yes. Yeah. And by the way,

I haven't heard you, Mr. Champion and progressive leader, condemn any of the terrorist attacks against Israelis. Oh, well, let's all. Let me ask, Chek that very question. Okay. Let me, okay. Jonathan gave you a long, a long chance to respond. All right. Well, Chegg, would you like first to address that point. By the way, do I get a half an hour to respond to all of his nonsense? But go ahead. Well, first of all, your response to the attacks that have been happening on Jewish people in America. Yeah, it's disgusting. It's immoral. It's stupid. It's counterproductive. I loathe it. So I'm for peace. I'm against violence. You didn't waste five minutes to write about it on Twitter to speak about it.

You didn't waste a minute to speak about it out of your own volition. No, you didn't. I talked. I've checked before coming online. This genocidal freak is talking. for half an hour straight. And peers, do you see how every time I go to talk, the Israeli propagandists talk over me on your show? Jonathan, you must let him respond now. I think I gave you a 30 minutes. And then when I go to speak, they talk over me.

Let Schenck speak because I just think you're being dishonest. Jonathan, I gave you a long chance to say you're not. Shut up, John. Jesus, Christ, man. No, I'm not going to take shut up from you. I think you're being dishonest and you sit on high horses. Okay, here we go. Do you see this, Peter?

You haven't. This is Israeli propaganda. I'll remain calm, but understand that every time I go to talk, Israel's Israeli propaganda that you bring on, continue to talk over me. Jonathan, let him speak. You have done it every single time. Jonathan, he let you speak. So unless you get this Israeli propagandis to stop talking.

Let Cheng speak because he let you speak, Jonathan. Chank. Okay, so he's obviously trying to defend the terrorism of Israel. They have killed over 20,000 children. So are they the most incompetent military in the world? oh, golly, gee, we missed 20,000 times, or are they doing it on purpose? Or is Kama's hiding behind the beginning of the conflict?

So here we go. Here we go. Okay, so do you remember in the beginning of the conflict when they pretended to be outraged that there was an accusation that Israel had hit a hospital? They're like, how could you say this? Israel would never do such a thing. They have now destroyed 20 out of the 22 hospitals in Gaza,

totally leveled them. Why? Because they want to make life unlivable in Gaza, because they are terrorists. That is part of the reason why that I abhor violence. I hated what happened on October 7. He makes it sound like October 6 was perfectly lovely. No, October 6 is when Israel continued to have a 57-year brutal occupation of the Palestinians demeaning and basically enslaving the Palestinians for 58. years now. When are you going to let them go? You have five and a half million hostages. Those

Palestinians under the thumb of despotic Israeli rule. So now Smotrich says, look, we were happy starving them to death, and that's what I would like to have done. But it's bad optics for us. So we have to bring them to the brink of starvation so that the West will continue to let us do what we're doing, which is the genocide. ethnic cleansing of Gaza. These are indisputable facts. Now, when you include women, they've killed over 30,000 innocent women and children, a stadium full of dead bodies brought to you by the IDF. The IDF is murdering those people every day. By the way, they've killed a dozen Americans. And both the Biden administration and the Trump administration goes, ah, Americans, a 14-year-old boy

who grew up in New Jersey was just murdered by the IDF in the West Bank. And both Trump and Biden go, as long as the money's coming in from APEC, I'll let you murder any American you like. I'll let you murder any Palestinian you like. And let's be honest, hey, brother, you want it each other than why don't you tell me here? I'll let you talk now and give your BS Israeli propaganda. As you claim that worldwide media and the U.S. media are too harsh on Israel? You give me Israel a pass on everything. If they held Israel to the same standard as Hamas, right now the whole world.

world and the whole media would do nothing but condemn Israel. They have killed over 400 times the number of children that Hamas is killed. The IDF is the biggest terrorists in the world right now. So tell me, are you going to take Gaza and prove me right that this was always a genocidal attack on Palestinians to steal their land? Or are you going to withdraw from Gaza and go to a two-state solution? I want a safe and peaceful Israel. I want to safe and peaceful and independent Palestine. Somehow I doubt that. So do you want to see a peaceful and safe Israel? Answer the question.

Do you want to steal Gaza or are you going to give Gaza back to the Palestine? Somehow I doubt that you want to see a peaceful and safe Israel of Jews living in their ancestral homeland where they have 3,500 years of documented archaeological history. I doubt that this is your real motivation because, as I said, I think you are untruthful if you would have cared about the lives of Americans, you would have condemned the terror attack on a Christian American who happened to be working at the Israeli embassy, and he would have said that these Palestinian terrorist

or Palestinian-induced terrorists are horrible and despicable and harmful and all of the other window-dressing words that you use now, but you would have done it out of your own vocation. And you didn't because you don't believe in it. I did. Because you, sir, are full of it. Actually, he has condemned it. I don't know whether you've been reading, Chanks.

Look at X, right. I don't know whether you've checked his X-Feed, but Jonathan, he has condemned all of these attacks. I've seen it. Chink has condemned them all. I've actually checked before I came online and I haven't seen it. Well, you didn't check it long enough. You asked about Gaza. Yeah, yeah.

You asked about Gaza. What I think will happen in Gaza, and I'll tell you now we're in June 2025. I think that for the coming months, maybe a year or two, my assessment is, based on military logic is that the IDF will indeed conquer and hold the Gaza Strip. As, no surprise here, is what happens, usually at the end of main combat operations in any war, the winning side, which, despite what you and many other people want, will be Israel. Israel will defeat Hamas, and Israel will take and hold over that piece of terrain and for a transition period, which I, as an Israeli hope, will be as short and as best.

as possible, yes, a transition period, just like the allied powers did in Nazi Germany after the Second World War, and just like many other winning militaries have done at the end of main combat operations, there is always a transition period. At the end of that transition period, I hope for there to be independent, yes, I hope for there to be independent Palestinian governance that isn't Hamas and that isn't the PA that supports and funds terrorists and give them stipends, but other type of Palestinian government that says our goal in life is to care about Palestinian children.

Our goal in life is the future and the future prospects of us as a people and the region. That is what I hope that this war will bring about. I fear that it will take many months and probably years until we see the early signs of that happening. But I hope, and I'm pretty confident, that we will not see any Israeli. No, because,

I want to, I, I, I, I, I, I, I want to, I, I, I have these concerns as well. You're transitioning for years and years and years. Not at all. And your standard is until they love all Israelis, we will enslave them and take their land. Not at all. That's the Israeli answer at all times. The only ones that had genocidal attack, you just said it. You're going to take Gaza. You just said it. You're going to take Gaza. And you're going to keep it for years and years. You just said it. Yes. I think it's pretty clear. It's very straightforward. Yes, I think to take Gaza and slaughter the Palestinians so you can take more land. How much land are we going to let Israel take with our money, with our money?

Hey, Jonathan, why do you give us the 300 billion back? Give me the 300 billion back. I don't want to fund genocide. I'm an American taxpayer. Give me the goddamn money back. You're not funding anything. You're, if you're doing anything, you're not funding genocide. What you're doing is giving air cover for Hamas.

You are giving air cover and you are carrying out of Gaza. And you are facilitating terror. attacks against Jews. That's the only thing that you could be held accountable for. But I don't think that you're literally murdering Palestinians and cheering it on as we speak. You love violence. You're absolutely love violence. Not at all. Not at all. Unlike you, I live here. Who causes attacks like Bullets. Unlike you. All right. Let me ask you. Time out. Time out. Time out. I keep advocating against violence.

Time out. I want to ask Jonathan. Jonathan. Jonathan. Jonathan. From a military, from a military perspective. because I know that's an area of expertise for you. From a military perspective, it seems to me that the mission statement, I mean, you say you think this is all going well and they're going to win the war and they're going to take over Gaza and so on. I didn't say it's going well, Pierce, and I was very sure that I wasn't happy. Apart from anything else, the most powerful military in the Middle East has been incapable of dismantling a bunch of terrorists now for 20 months.

Hamas is still very much alive and well. The remaining hostages have not been freed, which of course is disgraceful, and of course they should be. But the bombardment continues. Two-thirds of Gaza is now in ruins. Presumably, the rest will be reduced to rubble that this carries on as well. And yet all the intelligence that the American military are getting is that actually, far from eliminating Hamas,

all what's been happening is, for every Hamas terrorist has been killed, the ideology has been replaced by four or five more people, which seems to me to be an abject failure. If that is even happening at half the rate, then you're creating more of a problem going forward for Israel security than you had at the start of this. How can any of this be construed as a military success? Well, as I said before, I am not happy,

and so are many other Israelis with the pace and the actions of this war, and in how long it has taken for Israel to defeat Hamas. And, you know, I've heard reports, and I've seen them circulated by all kinds of people with political interest, usually not those aligned with Israel, who quote those reports, and I've seen conflicting reports. I'd say this. I would have wanted for this war against Hamas to be swifter,

for less Israelis to have been wounded, for us to have been much more successful in releasing and rescuing our hostages earlier, and for our negotiations to have been much better and prioritizing the release of hostages faster, and I would have wanted Hamas defeated at a lower cost for the civilian population in Gaza. Sadly, we are 600 days after Hamas's attack on Israel, where my people have been held as hostages,

and yes, people in Gaza have been suffering, and I would like to see that suffering end quicker than it has been going on. But if you ask me, what do I want to see more? what I want to see is for Israel to emerge victorious and to defeat Hamas, to defeat Hamas and to protect Israelis living around the Gaza area and for that area to be safe. As long as Hamas exists, it won't be safe for Israelis and Israel cannot stop until Hamas is defeated. And what I think is so extremely sad and cynical is that there's such a big chorus and an alignment of

organizations and countries who claim to be supporting the Palestinians, but by supporting Hamas, what they do is that they're just extending the war. They're extending the suffering. Instead of helping Israel distribute food, they're obfuscating it. Instead of helping Israel crush Hamas and defeat them and get the war done and over with, they're making it, they're forcing Israel to work slower and to take longer time in order to defeat them. At the end of the day. The truth is that Hamas has to be defeated. Hamas has to be defeated for there to be any kind of future, positive future, for Israelis and also for Palestinians in Gaza. There is no future for Palestinians in Gaza as long as Hamas is there. And the sooner organizations and leaders

and media pundits and self-appointed humanitarians understand this and get wit supporting Israel instead of supporting indirectly supporting Hamas, the better it will. will be for Palestinians. All right, Cheng, your response? Yes. So if you remember peers, a long time ago, you asked me right in the beginning of the conflict, what would I do instead?

And I talked about sending a special force into Gaza, but then you make a peace deal with the Palestinian authority and use them to drive out Hamas from Gaza. So nobody wants Hamas in Gaza. So that's just pure Israeli propaganda, right? And is there a way to do that? Now, actually, over 50 countries in the Arab League have said, we will help to do that, drive out Hamas from Gaza, and we will pay for the reconstruction of Gaza.

And Israel doesn't want it. They say no to every single peace deal. Why? Because they don't want peace. So this brother admitted that, yes, they plan on taking Gaza. That was the point all along. And then he says this absurdity about maybe many, many, many years later, if the Palestinians are good boys and girls and have now declared their love and allegiance for their occupiers, then we will give it back. That's obviously a joke. They're never, ever going to take it back. I'll interrupt you because you're falsifying what I say.

The whole point of this was to steal that land. I don't know. And here's, I told you that from day one. I didn't say any of that. And when I said they were going to take Gaza, people said, oh, no, that's ridiculous. They're not going to take Gaza. Now they admit we are going to take Gaza.

But the most important part of this period. I've been saying this is January 24, by the way, on the record. unduable standard it's no new okay let's john yeah yeah yeah jonathan let me finish so they say until we finish gaza we have to keep going and we have to take more of their land and ethnically cleanse them more so but how do we know it's a purposely unduable standard how do we know of all of hamas's that first of all they don't allow any journalists then as you pointed out in fact they've murdered more journalists than all other conflicts in the world combined and it's not an accident there's sniper shots. By the way, against the Palestinian American citizen journalist, a sniper shot from

hundreds of yards away, shot her in the neck to murder her. So they murder journalists. They don't allow international journalists because they don't want you to know this has nothing to do with self-defense. We were right all along. The whole aim was to take Gaza. And their excuse is Hamas has never finished. Since Hamas is never finished and we never agree to a ceasefire or a peace deal that would push Hamas out. We have to keep murdering Palestinians and Hamas made us do it. Hamas didn't make you do it. You are morally responsible for the genocide, the terrorism, and the ethnic cleansing that you celebrate now, Jonathan. And you're talking about taking that land and you're doing it for greed and your empire.

You are not doing it to help Israeli citizens and keep them safe. And in fact, it makes Israel so much less safe. Okay. Because guys like this go, no, I want more land. And I want conquest as he's got blood dripping from the corner of his mouth. And then telling us about how he's against terrorism. You're supporting mass terrorist. And you're saying it doesn't tell.

Because it's just Muslim lies. Okay. Listen, listen. Hang on. These are anti-semitic blood libelts. We run out of time. I will let you just respond quickly to one thing. Yeah, but these are anti-Semitic tropes.

Okay. But hang on. Let me just ask you one question, Jonathan. Jonathan. I know. I know. Jonathan, it's the plans. Hang on. Hang on.

Hang on. You made your point, Chang. You don't get to speak about bigotry. You made your point. But Jonathan, the problem you have when you try and say the plan is not to take everything over is right in the middle of all this last week. With Israel being branded a global pariah by many people with two former prime ministers coming out, condemning what they see as war crimes and so on. Right in the middle of this, a story comes out of nowhere that the Israeli government has sanctioned. 22 new settlements in the West Bank. Settlements are widely considered by the international community to be illegal. If that isn't a land grab, then what is it? I'll tell you what I think many Israelis believe that it is,

and I think this crosses a few political divides in Israel, and I'm sure that viewers will find this quite interesting. What many Israelis believe that that is, is that is a response to terror attacks against Israelis. Many Israelis feel specifically after October 7, specifically after October 7, is that sadly, there's very little currently, very sadly, little currently to be debating with Palestinians because their true nature, whether it is Gaza or in Judean Samaria, what you call the West Bank, many of them have been exposed as people whose only wish and desire is. is to kill Jews. And frankly, I think you should be ashamed

for their land acquisition. Your monologue was a textbook monologue of the lowest kind of cheap, old, used anti-semitic tropes. As you murder 50, 60,000 civilians. You're lecturing me about textbook terrorism. Your pile of nonsense.

And hatred, Chink, is beneath this show. It is beneath any respectable show. You're beneath this show. You continue to say that. No, what you said, what you said is despicable. I think you should be held accountable along with many others. For you conquering Gaza and murdering all those Palestinian children, not despicable. But we pointing out that you're murdering children you're murdering children. You're murdering a stadium of women and children is despicable.

That's anti-Semitic to point out what Israel is actually doing. If you're factual about Israel, it's anti-Semitic. No, it's not. that you're driving up I'm going to bring this to an end now. And you virtually have glove on your hands when you repeat these things. Okay. No, you have, no, you are literally

drenched in blood, brother. You're drenched from head to toe and palisdrenched in anything. If anything, I defend my country. That's the only thing that I could be accused. All right, I'm going to bring it into this. I don't know what you stand for and who you defend. Listen, you guys shatling at each other. I'm citing violence against Jews.

All right, I'm going to have to end it there. Yeah, peace right. I'm going to end it there. But thank you. This guy wants to kill as many Palestinians as humanly possible. He's a terrorist who should not have much said such a thing. He's totally covered in the blood of Palestinian children and women. He has happily murdered.

Gentlemen, I'm going to have to leave him there. And he was a murder more Palestinians. We've run out of time. I wish we had longer. We don't. But I appreciate you both coming on on censored. Thank you very much. Shalom.

Stop murdering Palestinians. Yeah, right. Go be truthful. You be. good.