Piers Morgan Uncensored - "Still in DISBELIEF" Musk on Epstein, Trump War & Drug Claims | Plus Riley Gaines On Simone Biles

Episode Date: June 9, 2025

Much of the world was expecting an eventual fallout between Donald Trump and Elon Musk - but the speed and intensity of their separation has been dramatic and - let’s face it - quite entertaining. The question is will it damage the President - or damage Musk himself? Piers Morgan is joined by Elon’s dad Errol Musk for his view - and to ask what he knows about his son’s alleged drug use. Also debating the subject is Outkick founder Clay Travis, host of ‘Breaking Points’ Krystal Ball, veteran Republican strategist Roger Stone and host of ‘Pushing The Limits’ Brian Shapiro. Piers also speaks to Democrat congressman for California Rep. Eric Swalwell on the anti-ICE protests gripping LA and the President’s decision to deploy the national guard, against the wishes of Governor Newsom. And Piers then talks to Riley Gaines about her astonishing feud with Simone Biles. Piers Morgan Uncensored is proudly independent and supported by: OneSkin: Get 15% off OneSkin with the code PIERS at https://www.oneskin.co/ #oneskinpod ​​Tax Network USA: Call 1-800-958-1000 or visit https://TNUSA.com/PIERS to meet with a strategist today for FREE Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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the conditions can't take care, yes, sir. My time as a special governor boy necessarily had to end. They've had a spec. It's not the end of the world. What is important is that we have Donald Trump as president.

On the big question of Elon and drug taking, from your knowledge of him, what is the reality? Totally, absolutely false. As the head of SpaceX, he's under regular checkups like all the staff, that they are squeaky clean. Elon is a monster. He's already caused the death of 300,000 people around the world. world. But he's got Trump dead to rights on the Epstein stuff on the fact that he was able to buy the election. And also, oh, by the way, he should be impeached. Do you think that the Democrats, if there was anything criminal at all in the Epstein files that could have remotely

been used against Trump, do you think they wouldn't have used it? This was the real Simone Biles calling me a truly sick, disgusting bully. Even still, I'm in disbelief over this comment. Yes, I have muscles as most athletes do, but I would imagine... Not as big as hers. Two of the world's most successful men, with two of the world's biggest egos, were never going to be BFFs for long, with the speed and intensity of Elon Musk's separation from President Trump has been dramatic and, let's face it, quite entertaining too. The question, though, is whether it will damage the president or damage Elon Musk.

More will also debate the anti-ice protest gripping Los Angeles and the president's decision to deploy the National Guard against the president's. the wishes of Governor Newsom. And I'll talk to Riley Gaines about her astonishing feud on X with Simone Biles. We're joining me to discuss all this, the founder of Outkick, Clay Travis, Crystal Ball, host of Breaking Points,

and Brian Shapiro, host of pushing the limits. And we have other guests who'll be joining us a little later. All right, Clay Travis, I'll be following you on X in the last week. You've been rampant, I think it'd be fair to say,

about all of this stuff. Let's start with the Trump-Musk fallout, because it's kind of fascinating. entertaining. The whole world's agog as it was all unfurling live on Elon's platform X. There seems to have been a little bit of a cooling down in the last like 48 hours or so. Where do you think we are with these two? I think Elon Pierce had a huge temper tantrum and I think he regrets it. And as someone I know you've raised kids, I've raised kids.

sometimes Twitter and X, it's great for letting you know exactly what people think emotionally, but it isn't necessarily the best place to go where you are when you feel rational. And I think what really this happened was Musk was really upset that Trump pulled the nomination of his friend to be in charge of NASA. and I think he is not really that experienced in the political arena. And he wanted to move fast and break things as he's done with all of his companies. I think he's the greatest capitalist peers in the history of the world. That's not hyperbole.

And the problem is he's not in charge of the government. And the work that he did, the attacks that he got, I think he was unprepared for them. I think they built up. and the decision about the NASA head was what really kind of put him over the edge. And then he didn't like a couple of the minor comments that Trump made. And he just lost it. And I think he regrets. For people out there who watch Seinfeld, a part of me feels like he might pull a George Costanza

and just pretend none of this ever happened that he didn't quit, show up at the White House, and do a handshake at another press conference with Trump. And I think Trump's actually been the adult in the room here because I think he understands. he understands Elon and understands this was just basically a temper tantrum that got out of control. Yeah, I mean, Brian, you know, it's interesting to watch it, obviously for the delectation of the world is entertaining, like I said, on a certain level. There's also a more serious part of this. I mean, Elon Musk was brought in to launch Doge. He was going to get stuck into government waste. We went from $2 trillion as the ambition to a trillion to then, I think in

the end a couple of hundred billion. And at the same time, the big, beautiful bill is predicted to put at least two trillion, maybe more, onto the debt. So it didn't seem like there was much point to what Elon ended up doing or was able to achieve in that time. And that's quite a damning indictment of how the government system works, isn't it? I also think it's an indictment of Donald Trump, and Donald Trump can be bought. This was a guy who donated, what, $300 million plus to Donald Trump's campaign and Trump puts him in charge of Doge. And then Clay Travis is comparing him to a child having a temper tantrum. Well, doesn't that hurt the credibility of Donald Trump then? Why would he put him in a position of this power? And by the way, accusing him of being in the Epstein files,

where are the Epstein files? Why haven't they been released? I don't hear many Maga Republicans like Clay Travis talking about that. You know, Clay, we've heard from Maga Republicans calling Democrats pedophiles for years. Where are all you guys now? Why haven't the Epstein files been released? So I actually take Elon Musk side on this. And I think it hurts Donald Trump's credibility once again, and it proves that the president could be bought. It's the only reason why Elon Musk was put in this position in Doge in the first place. Well, we've got Roger Stone who's joining us now. Roger, welcome back to Oncensic. Good to see you and looking magnificent in your white suit, I have to say. This issue of what Elon Musk called

the big bomb. As he said, time to drop the really big bomb. Donald Trump is in the Epstein files. That's the real reason they've not been made public. Now, interestingly, Elon has since deleted that tweet as he has the call for Trump to be impeached. So whether he's got, you know, buyer's remorse on his own tweets, we don't know. But certainly what that has done is intensified, exactly as Brian just said, attention to the fact that despite promises to the contrary, these Epstein files have not been released. And now everyone's going to be thinking, because Elon Musk has been right there with Trump

for the last six months or so at least, there must be something in there about Trump that is preventing them being released. And even if that isn't the case, that's what everyone's going to think now until or if they're released. Let me say a couple things. First of all, I think Elon Musk did the country

a great service by establishing the largest free speech-based social media. platform in the world. But once he released all of the hard evidence that the government was working with executives at Twitter to censor political speech or speech about health or any speech that wasn't okay with the government, he put a target on his back. He was almost immediately the subject of nine different investigations. I think he figured out that if Kamala Harris was elected, they would have probably canceled his government contract. destroyed his companies and perhaps even put him in jail.

So he helped Donald Trump, and I think he was of substantial help, although only Donald Trump elected Donald Trump. I've written a book, The Clinton's War on Women, covers the Epstein matter very exclusively. I read all the pleadings of the Epstein victims. There is nothing to this. Donald Trump was on Epstein's plane one time. It flew from New York to Palm Beach and Back. back, Marla Maples, his wife at the time, and his daughter Tiffany, were on the plane.

Never went to the island, never went to his ranch. This is a canard. I think it was irresponsible of Elon to throw it out. I, too, would like to see the release of the files. However, I think Cash Patel summed this up. The DVDs, the hard drives that were removed from Epstein's home, seem to have disappeared under the previous administration. And the impeachment thing is beyond the pale.

Elon is right. We do need to cut federal spending. I would just argue that the big, beautiful bill was not the place to do it. The tax relief there in itself merits the passage of the bill. They just sent a rescission bill up for $9 billion. It seems like a lot of money, but it's about 5% of what Elon money. has identified, we're going to have to do much, much better. Okay. I saw you smirking a bit there, Crystal. I don't think you're fully buying into

Roger's narrative of this. So over to you. So, I mean, let's start with the Epstein piece. We have tapes of Jeffrey Epstein saying he and Trump are besties for a decade. We have photos and videos of them together. We know he was on the plane. Now suddenly his administration, they did this fake thing with the influencers where they released these binders of information that was already public. Now you have Cash Patel going on with Joe Rogan and claiming that the cameras were on in the cell and that for sure we know he definitely killed himself. I mean, it doesn't take a genius to put two and two together between Trump's direct connections to Epstein and the potential, the pro-Israel tilt of the Trump administration, the potential intelligence ties to imagine some

reasons why this was never going to come out and why the right was foolish to ever believe that this was going to come out. That's number one. Number two, to still run around and pretend like Elon or anybody on the right are committed to free speech as we watch the crushing of dissent with regard to Palestine in particular is so laughable that it is preposterous that you guys still make these claims. Number three, on the big beautiful bill, you are giving a giant tax cut away to the rich in order to make sure that you can cut. You're cutting the health care of poor people to fund this giant tax cut to the rich.

It's a gigantic giveaway. Elon is a monster. He's already caused the death of 300,000 people around the world. The estimates are that that's going to be millions over time. But he's got Trump dead to rights on the Epstein stuff, on the fact that he was able to buy the election, that the terrorists are going to cause a recession. And also, oh, by the way, he should be impeached. Dry skin, deeper wrinkles and crapiness are just a few of the miserable signs of aging.

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All right, Clay, I can see you having, I think it looks like an anaphylactic shock occurring live on television. So over to you. Well, first of all, let me start with Elon. He is the greatest capitalist, I believe, that has ever existed in the history of the world. You look at what he's done with Tesla. You look at what he's done with SpaceX. How is Tesla doing these days, by the way? Tell me that. It's one of the greatest success stories in the history of the world. So really well, it is doing fabulously well. How's that stock price doing? How's his image around the world? How many cars do you sell? It's fabulous. The stock price is one of the highest in the valuation. in the history of the world. Like, if you're going to say it's not the greatest,

OK, but it's one of the five or six. But isn't a problem, Clay, let me ask you this. Clay, let me ask you this. This is crazy. Let's not get a, look, Tesla is a great, let me just say something. Tesla's a great, great company. But it's definitely had a lot of brand damage

because of what's been going on with Elon in Washington. And that just begs the question. If you're, I'm trying to get an interview with Elon, I'd love to ask him. You know, does he regret getting so heavily into the political arena, given the obvious impact it's had in a negative way on his personal brand and therefore the brands that have been built around him.

Tesla, SpaceX, I don't know the answer. It's a fabulous question. Yeah. I think the answer, stepping into Elon's reactions here on Twitter, I think the reaction would be and the answer would be yes, because I think he thought, as many CEOs do, hey, if I get in and look at the books and I see the inefficiencies, I. I'm going to fix it. I think that's what he thought. He's an engineer at heart. And he looked at the books as a businessman for the government as an engineer and said, we're spending way too much money. And I think he has been frustrated by how little he can do when he wants to make something happen at SpaceX or Tesla or NeurLink or any of these companies that he owns. He can do it. I think the frustration with politics is not an engineering problem. It's a political problem. And those are very different things. And I think as a capitalist, he's thrown up his hands. and said, this is frustrating.

I mean, he didn't, first of all, I don't take it based. I don't want to go in. I don't want to go in. But they're put the big beautiful bill as a one trillion dollar Pentagon budget. Like this is an agency that has never passed a federal audit. So that would be the first place you look. And instead he did nothing there. He did.

He did. No, no, that's not true. I've never taken on its face to claim that Doge was about cost cutting in any case. Doge is costing the federal government money based on the cuts they made. at the IRS. It has made it less efficient. Just try to get your social security check and tell me how well the government is working in the wake of Doge. But Elon did accomplish some things that were important to him. All those investigations into his companies, which were rightfully going forward, that's all gone. The CFPB, the anti-scam bureau that was set to regulate Twitter, that is not,

is basically doesn't exist anymore. And he was able to suck out data out of the federal government. God knows what he's going to do with that. So yes, it's been damaging to. him. I'm sure he has many regrets, but let's also not pretend like he didn't accomplish incredible destruction and damage that also personally was beneficial to him as well. Can I just add something? Clay, Brian, I'm coming to you next, but just play, just respond to that. I think in retrospect, Elon probably wishes that he had not taken the Doge job because I do think it's made his capitalism jobs more difficult. And I think that's part of why he had the temper tantrum that he did. It doesn't change to the fact that he's the greatest capitalist in the history of the world.

But isn't it more, Clay, isn't it more this? Isn't it more that Elon Musk has got to where he is, which is the most successful businessman in the history of planet Earth, arguably, building a number of amazing companies, but always getting his own way, right? By common consent of people who work with him. Yes, that's totally a ruthless operator. It came into Twitter, fired half the staff immediately. straight out the door, and so on. He's a ruthless operator.

He's used to doing things his way, and he's used to getting his way. And I think what he found in Donald Trump is somebody who's also pretty ruthless when he wants to be, and also absolutely used to getting his own way, and especially now he's President of the United States. And so there were certain big decisions

which Trump was decided to take, which Elon didn't want to do or didn't like, but actually he found out that he's not as powerful as the President of the United States. And I think the reason that he may be deleting some of the more inflammatory tweets now and so on is he's probably calmed down a bit. And he's looked at the big picture and thought, I can't win a war with a very popular, with at least half of the country, President of the United States, who's a bombastic character like Trump, who will come for me if I go for him. I need to calm things down. That's my reading of it.

I think that's a very good reading. I think what it ultimately goes to is who's the decision maker. the decision maker at all of his companies, and that's what makes him good. He's not the ultimate decision maker in terms of the political process. And I think that's very frustrating for him. And by the way, even Trump himself is in some ways circumscribed and constrained by the position of president of the United States in terms of what he can do. And by the way, on the Epstein file stuff, let me just lay this out and ask this question because I think it's ultimately answers itself. Do you think that the Democrats who tried to put Trump in prison for the rest of his life, who tried to bankrupt him,

who went through Melania's underwear drawer to try to find incriminating information for Trump. If there was anything criminal at all in the Epstein files that could have remotely been used against Trump, do you think they wouldn't have used it? I mean, that to me is an open and shut case. I agree. I agree. I think Roger is right. Well, hang on, hang on, hang on. With everything they had. Hang on, Crystal. I happen to agree with Clay, but I want to come to Brian.

He's been waiting patiently. To be very clear, to be very clear, Donald Trump cut off Jeffrey Epstein prior to his being exposed and charged with sex crimes in Florida. Bill and Hillary Clinton continue to socialize with him and continue to take money from him. That's a fact. But Roger, this is an important point.

The tax cuts in the big, beautiful bill. across the board. You can keep that telling that lie about tax cuts for the rich. Okay, let me bring in Brian. Over and over again, it won't make it sell. Let me bring in Brian. Brian, there seems to me there's also, Brian, hang on what I said. There's a big picture here. Elon claimed he won Trump the election. I think Trump won the election, as Brogers said, but he certainly Elon must played a massive helping hand in doing that. Because for somebody who owns a massive platform like X, who has 200 million followers and who for the last few months of that election, cycle was just relentlessly pumping pro-Trump stuff. That is obviously going to be significantly helpful. We know that young men in particular got Trump over the line. Elon Musk was telling America's young men vote for this guy on an hourly basis.

So I don't think we should negate that. And the reason I say that is that he's been threatening Elon to turn his turrets against the Republicans, against Trump, maybe even in the midterms, maybe launching his own party. Now, it would be fascinating. if Elon Musk, contrary to what I think, which is, I think he may be now he's calmed down, he doesn't want to have this fight. But if he decided to go all in on a new party and he had a platform that he owns with 200 million people who follow his every word, I mean, this could be quite a threat to Trump.

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slash peers. 10% of all services for July 4th, Tax NetworkUSA.com slash peers. Yeah, Pierce, so I agree with you. A couple of quick points. First on Elon. I agree with Elon. He donated almost a half a billion dollars to Donald Trump's campaign. So I agree with Elon. If not for Elon Musk, Trump probably doesn't win. He was a huge part of the win. And to Clay Travis, the idea that somehow Elon Musk just woke up in the morning one day and said, I care so much about this government spending is a joke. He did this for himself, the same reason why Donald Trump ran for office. They're in it for themselves and their investors and to enrich themselves further. Going to what Roger Stone just said, Anne Clay, about the fact that Donald Trump

can't be in these Epstein files. First of all, let's look at his history. He's a liable sexual abuser. He's had 25 women accuse him of rape or sexual assault, including his ex-wife in court documents. He bragged on the Howard Stern Show about going into teenage girls' pageant locker rooms, watching them undress in a sexual manner. And we hear Roger and Clay today saying, oh, there's no way that he could be in those Epstein files. And Roger, you're wrong, okay? In the Maxwell trial, we learned that Trump was on the flight log, Epstein flight log, at least six times. And Jeffrey Epstein said at one time that Donald Trump was his best friend, okay? And that Epstein had dirt on Trump. Who are the co-conspirators in the Maxwell trial?

Who are those co-conspirators that we haven't identified? She's charged with conspiracy. Who are the co-conspirators? Ask the U.S. Attorney. Be nice to have Epstein files to know that, wouldn't it? Yeah, but Brian, I would ask you, I would say, Brian, this. I thought that Clay made a very good point. The Democrats literally threw everything but the kitchen sink,

and that was because they couldn't wrestle the sink off its bolts, otherwise they were throwing that as well at Trump. And the point being, the point is, they had access to the Epstein files. If there was anything in there whatsoever that was even a tiny bit damaging to Trump, they'd have leaked it, wouldn't they? Why wouldn't they? Well, I mean, you could make the same argument with Republicans going after Joe Biden calling them the Biden crime family. For years, we've been hearing the Biden crime family. There have been all these investigations. We heard about Hillary Clinton and eight investigations into Benghazi. Republicans seem to find nothing. So I think the right is doing that more than the left.

Listen, my question is very simple, guys. Why have the Epstein files not been released? Hold on a second, Clay. Hold on, Clay. Hang on one. Give me 10 seconds here. Pam Bondi said that she was going to release the files. They said it was going to be released,

and then these right-wing imbeciles with their binders in Washington, D.C. looked like clowns. So my question to Clay, Travis, and Roger Stone is, why have they not released the files then? It doesn't threaten national security. I'm telling you, Trump is all over those files. Just as Alexander Acosta, the U.S. Attorney in Florida, covered us Epstein's service for the CIA.

I think they're going to have to release the files. Don't all talk over each other. I do want to say this. I do think they're going to have to release the files, and the reason will be Elon Musk. Elon Musk has said publicly to 200 million people, time to drop the really big bomb. Trump is in the Epstein files.

That's the real reason they've not been made public. So long as they're not made public, that is now going to be what most people think, that there's something on Trump in there. I don't happen to think there is because I happen to agree with Clay that if there was, it would have been leaked. But it doesn't change the fact that because of Elon Musk's post, everyone's going to assume there's something on Trump in there that's prohibiting them being released. Peers, let me also point out in terms of leaks because I think this is important.

they leaked Donald Trump's entire tax returns to the New York Times and they published it in itemized detail, which is a crime. Because they thought it was going to be politically beneficial. They would have released it. I agree. I think this is my theory on Epstein. So if you want the answer, I think Epstein has been working for decades as a intelligence asset probably of multiple different countries. This is my theory. And in order to release all of this information, everybody looks at.

looks at it, they say, oh, my God, like he was doing work for us. He was doing work for Israel. I think that's what's going on. I think that's why it's complicated. And everybody who looks at it is just like, this is such a mountain of a mess. Let me agree with Clio. Hang on. Crystal, I'll come back to you. I'll come back to you. But we are, we're just going to take a short break. I'll come back to to the panel a moment. I'm going to be joined now by Errol Musk, who is Elon Musk's father. Errol, welcome to Uncensored. Thank you. Thank you. First time you've been on the show. It's great to have you.

So let me ask you, I want to play you a clip from a guest I had last week, Scott Galloway, who suddenly decided to unload on your son. And it went viral. Let's listen to this. I think this is an individual who has literally come off the tracks, who is rabidly addicted to drugs, and is using his immense power to get people elected, and that too many of us excuse what is abhorrent behavior. I think his legacy is not going to be an EV or putting rockets into space.

I think it's going to be unnecessary death, disease, and disability of the world's most vulnerable. That is not what it means to be an innovator. It's not what it means to be an American. It's not what it means to be a man. Errol also your response to that? Well, it's utter nonsense, you know, absolute rubbish. So, yeah, this is what you've, I've been listening to your program, listening to the four people. what you have forgotten to do is look at the bigger picture.

And the bigger picture is that this time last year, when I was in the United States several times, the people that I was talking to were worrying about what was going to happen to them and where they are going to go. They were so despondent with the Biden administration taking America down the road of ruin and ruination that people were talking about where will we go. we have nowhere to go from the United States

because they saw ruination in front of them. And then Elon came on the scene and he said, if we do not elect Donald Trump, civilization is finished in America. And that is what you have to remember. And so what he did was he financed as much as he could Donald Trump to be able to win this election. And today I can tell you that I have been back to the United States

for the whole of April, and all I see from one end, from California to Texas, is smiling people who have got their confidence back. They feel confident in the future. They do not feel the fear anymore that they felt under the Biden administration. Everything is back on track. What? Errol, if you don't mind me just, Errol, just let me respond to that. You mentioned, well, hang on that one point, I mean, you mentioned California, everyone's smiling.

California is ablaze with rioting right now because people in Los Angeles where I have a home, they are rebelling against the ice moves against the mass deportations. They're rebelling against that and there are open riots. Yes. Well, I can tell you that I was in California, northern California. It's the first world on steroids.

So what you see in lower LA is something that I believe has been financed. by some Soros organization to try and cause trouble. It's a small thing. It's not something to be concerned about. The majority of the people, I would like to say 80% of the people, but in fact 100% of the people that I saw and interviewed over a whole month in April are so happy that America is back on track.

Everyone is confident. Everyone feels confident about the future. And that confidence has spread right around the world. But again, Errol, again, with respect, your own son has just walked out of the White House. Well, hang on, hang on, I'm going to ask you a question. He's walked out of the role he had. He's, you know, had a big falling out with Donald Trump. And never mind the personal attacks on each other.

We'll come to those. But he's also done it on a point of, he believes, really substantive principle, which is that he was brought into government spending. And actually, this big, beautiful bill that Trump wants to. to put through, will have the opposite effect and will add trillions to the national debt, which America can't afford. So it may be that whilst people, look, lots of people I know are happy about Trump and are happy with Elon, but they're not happy. Now they think that Elon must, this brilliant business brain, genuinely believes America is heading for a catastrophic recession,

which is what he said. No, no, he doesn't say that. Elon is simply standing up for the idea that the budget was going to be a reduction in costs. And as Clay Travis, I think his name is pointed out very clearly, he's used to doing this kind of thing in the private sector. The government sector is a give and take situation. Elon is not a politician. He's had to learn, he has to learn, and I had to learn, and most people have to learn that politics is a given take.

Churchill had to learn that politics is a given take. No one wins in politics. It's a deep pool. It has no sides. You just keep swimming until you sink. And so what we have to keep in mind, they've had a spat. They've been through terrible stress for five months. It's not the end of the world. They had a fight.

They'll make up soon. They'll get together. They'll talk again. It's not that serious. What is important is that we have Donald Trump as president. And that is very important. So that today, people in the country in which I live in, can breathe a sigh of relief.

And I'm at the present time in Russia. They are breathing still a sigh of relief that Donald Trump is the president and not someone else. How often do you talk to, Elon? Well, we exchange emails and WhatsApp. So obviously, it's not my part to interfere in their daily lives. I've got two sons, by the way, not just Elon.

And so I keep my comments to short ideas that I have. I suggested to him that they should, you know, let this whistle out as soon as possible, this argument. And he said to me, yes, they are doing that. That's what they want to do. So, you know, it's a spat. Everyone is at some time in their lives had a spat. And so let's not get, let's not run away with, you know, this little. spet and throwing barbs at each other, that's just normal in a sput. It's completely normal.

I mean, look, there are, listen, there are spats. If I've had a spat with your son over an interview, which he cancelled. I've had a spat with Trump over an interview he did. So I totally agree with you, and especially when people get quite fired up and their strong characters, big egos and so on. But there is, you know, there's a spat and then there's actually telling 200 million people that Donald Trump is in the Epstein files and that he should be impeached. I mean, that's taking us back to a rather high degree, Errol, isn't it? Well, you know, I'm not really a holy roller or anything, but Jesus said, you know, let the innocent one be the one who throws the first stone. So let the innocent one

throw the first stone, please. I think, listen, I completely get that point. On the big question of Elon and drug taking, a lot of reports saying he takes a lot of ketamine, ecstasy, so on, so on, Adderall and so on. From your knowledge of him, what is the reality? No, no, no, totally false, totally, absolutely false. Elon is someone who abhors medication of any kind. Almost impossible for him to get an injection against anything when he was a kid. He absolutely abhors any kind of medication.

And as a matter of fact, as the head of SpaceX, he's under regular check. checkups, like all the staff, that they are squeaky clean for the type of work they are doing, because in order to have the clearance that they have, they must, in fact, abide by such regular checkups and so on. No, that's absolute rubbish.

So you don't think he takes any drugs at all? No. He may... I imagine he may take, you know, some, you know, pain tablet occasionally like I do. No, no, there's no way that Elon takes anything. No way. No way. Well, Errol, look, it's great to have you on uncensored. If you're WhatsApping your son later, tell him I'd love to interview.

Thank you. Roger Stone, an interesting interview there with Elon Musk's dad. He thinks they're going to get back. I would imagine that it's not in either Trump or Elon Musk's interest, longer term, particularly with the midterms coming up in 18 months or whatever it is. It's not in either of their interest, really, to have an ongoing feud, is it? No, I don't think it is. And I do think there'll be a rapprochement. They're already saying conciliatory things. Look, I think they're on, at the end of the day, they're on the same side. So I think that would be put back together. Launching a new political party is not nearly as simple as people think it is. The Republicans and Democrats work together.

to write the laws regarding ballot access, and you need to have a candidate to pitch it around, particularly hard to do in an off-year election, would probably only result in the election of the Democrats, which is not what I think Elon wants. So I'm not sure that he's going to proceed with that idea. Okay, I want to shift gears and talk about the L.A. riots. Clay Travis, dramatic escalation here

from what started off as apparent protests in downtown L.A. and South Central against the activities of the ICE agents there. They clearly have been seizing a lot of people and moving to deport them. A lot of people apparently protesting about that, but it seemed to then escalate very quickly into a more general anti-Trump protest.

And Trump has then gone DefCon 1 in response by ordering in the National Guard, which is pretty, I mean, it's not completely unprecedented, but it's bordering on unprecedented for a president to do that in this manner. What do you make of the story? Well, I believe the last that I saw yesterday evening was that the L.A. police chief said that things were rapidly spiraling out of control. And I think he wants all the help that he can get.

We've seen the videos of L.A. police cars, having Molotov cocktails thrown at them, the burning Waymo vehicles, I think five of them that were that were attacked. and graffitied and burned. And I think that Trump in 1.0, the first term that he served, saw what happened in the wake of the George Floyd riots when Tim Walls, the governor of Minnesota, was in charge and was slow on the response and the violence spread all over the country. And I think what the Trump 2.0 term team is saying is we're not going to allow the summer of 2025 to turn into the summer of 2020. We're going to. We're going to. We're going to going to do everything we can to return law and order to the country. And that's a positive.

And I will say, and it hasn't gotten very much attention, the murder rate in America is collapsing all over the country as we seem to have law and order returning to our streets. I was just looking at the numbers right before I came on. Pretty staggering. Every big city in America were headed potentially for some record lows. So I think we got to put the good guys back in control. That's the police. And I think we need as many of them in our streets. as necessary to bring law and order. And so I applaud what the administration is doing. And I think it sounds like the L.A. police chief would like to have more resources as opposed

to less to tamp this down as well. All right, Brian, you're shaking your head. And I know I want to read you. Yeah, I have it. Well, you said this before. You said it was peaceful. Quotes, until your rapist leader called him a National Guard, you MAGAFUX, continue to defend those who beat cops on January 6th.

So sit this one out. You inbred. fool. This was responding to someone who was criticizing the protesters. I mean, in the cold light of day, do you think that's the kind of language you're happy to see posted in your name, Brian? Well, here's what I will say to that. Let me start with Clay Travis. Yesterday, Clay Travis on social media said that if you're blocking cars and you're in the street protesting, you deserve years in jail. Clay Travis is the same guy who defended Donald Trump's pardons of those who beat police officers on January 6th. So you have zero credibility. I'm not done yet. Clay, Clay, I didn't interrupt

you. Don't interrupt me. I didn't interrupt you. Don't interrupt me. Okay. Their sentences were not over yet, and Donald Trump hardened them. By the way, Donald Trump called those people hostages and patriots. Would you call those people hostages and patriots in L.A.? I'm consistent. I want everybody to be held to the highest extent of the law. But, Clay, you have zero credit. on this issue. The guy who you support Donald Trump is the same guy who have them hostage and patriots. Do you agree with me then that they should be arrested and put in prison for years just like January 6th then? So are you agreeing with me now? So, so you're, no, I'm not. You're comparing somebody who beats police officers, giving some of them traumatic

brain injury. They got people that are in the streets protesting. They got years in prison. And they deserve it. I don't think we can allow. I don't think we can allow anybody to block streets anywhere in America. I think if you want to take it serious, the way you take things seriously is by putting serious punishments on people. And so to me, that's an easy solution. Whether you're a Democrat, Republican, or an independent, you should be treated fairly under the law. That didn't happen with January 6th, where people who were misdemeanors were elevated to felonies while everybody else was having their felonies lowered to misdemeanors who were in the BLM protests attacking police, left and right all over the city.

Okay, so Clay, let me jump in here. First of all, it's not a misdemeanor when you beat police officers with their own batons. That's number one. Donald Trump called them hostages and patriots. Number two, you are the guy that has coddled those, and people on the far right have called the tourist visit on January 6th. If you block cars in the road, I don't think that gives you years in prison. But you're the guy who's okay with bargaining. Way in excess for BLM protest.

You should be treated the same. Clay. We have the governor of California that has said, we don't need extra help. You've had the mayor of L.A. that said we don't need extra help. You've never had the police chief on the record saying that they wanted, here's the problem with the Marines coming in there, okay? They are not trained to deal with criminal activity there. They're dealt with training on how to deal with the enemy. The local law enforcement have said, we don't want the extra help.

There's a reason why this hasn't happened since the civil rights movement in the 1960s at police officers, then you are, you should be dealt with by Marines and everybody else. And by the way, Gavin Newsom is a disaster on every front in California. The fact that you would say Gavin Newsom says, I don't need help is not the guy that I'm citing for turning law and order. So you don't have confidence in cops. But the guy who calls police officers. Because what you're saying is that the local law enforcement is unable to handle some pretty basic protests that, yes, now have been incited to, I'm not saying they're nonviolent or trying to downplay it.

But let's be real. This is not. It's not. It's not. Like, police cars are on fire. And he's asking for help. I think we need it.

We have not enough police officers in L.A. if you look at it per capita. The National Guard was federalized. Was in 1992, okay, with the consent and request of the governor of California to deal with the L.A. riots. To put this into scale and scope. The L.A. riots resulted in 63 people being killed in two, over two thousand. people being arrested. You had a billion dollars of damage that was done.

Crystal, let me ask. That's great. Crystal, do you think we handle, okay, hold on, hold on. Do you think we handle the summer of 2020 with the BLM protest well? Because if you don't, the Trump team is trying to learn from that and stop it from spreading by nipping it in the bud. Let me make a good, there's a good point to make about that though. Because Trump 1.0, he wanted to shoot protesters in the legs. And you had Esper come in and say, we are not doing that. This time there are no guardrails on this authoritarian fascist menace. And that's the big picture here that we need to look at. Trump was going to use any pretext he could grab for an authoritarian to press. To return law in order to our second biggest city? You don't need the military to turn the military on U.S.

citizens. Calling in the Marines to deal with protests is utter insanity. I think. It's called enforcing law. I know you have a problem with it. No, Roger, that's what. It is. Time out. What about the six officers who are damaged by a Malachov-Ratale yesterday? Roger, I want to pay you.

How you don't all talk at once? Roger, I want to play you a clip. This is from Gavin Newsom talking about the riots. I want to get your reaction to that. Then I'm going to bring in another guest briefly. Listen to this. Donald Trump is reckless. He's immoral.

He's taken the illegal and unconstitutional. Act and federalizing the National Guard, and he's putting lives at risk. Roger, your reaction to that. First of all, it's not unconstitutional. It's well within the president's authority. We saw what happened in 2020 when we relied on the governors. $2 billion of damage in public and private property, as many as 19 people killed, 24 people killed, I believe, in Chicago, over thousands of both.

protesters and officers injured. That's what happens when the governors did nothing. That statement was more about Gavin Newson's presidential aspirations than it was the actual facts. Okay. Here's something important. Just one thing to know. Very quickly. On day one, Trump signed an executive order calling for it to be analyzed whether he should invoke the Insurrection Act. On day one, before anything had happened, he's been looking for a pretext to use the military to crush dissent. That's what this is. We all need to keep our eye on the ball of what is being due here for this fascist authoritarian leader.

Okay, let's bring in another guest who's criticized President Trump's decision. And the communist antifa tactics, which are not peaceful and not protest their body. Okay. Neither of you is actually my other guess. So if you just hold your fire, I'm going to bring in another guest who's criticized President Trump decision to send a National Guard, Representative Eric Swalwell, the Democratic Congressman for California's 14th District. Thank you very much for David.

joining me. I appreciate it. It's something else here now. Something new. From exclusively on Paramount Plus, it's the series Stephen King calls Scarious Hell. Everything here is impossible, but it's also real. Sci-fi vision calls it the best show streaming right now.

We're running out of time and we still don't know the rules. Don't miss what the movie blog calls something you need to watch. Saving those children is how we all go home. from binge all episodes exclusively on Paramount Plus. I've got a home in L.A., so I've been watching this. My first thought I have to say is this is the last thing L.A. needs after the appalling fires earlier this year. But at the center of it seems to be a sort of visceral clash between people who believe that ICE is overstepping its mark, and they're reacting violently to what they see as an undemocratic process unfurling.

and others who think this is long overdue. There are millions of people illegally living in the United States who shouldn't be there, many of whom have committed crimes, and of course they should be deported. And this clash that is behind what we're now seeing erupting around L.A. Is it as simple as that, do you think, in terms of a debate, or are the other things fueling it as well?

No, Pierce, I see it as Donald Trump is a chaos agent. We were promised, and he was right to say that he was going to deport violent criminals who are here undocumented. I support that. Most Americans support that. He has deported a four-year-old American citizen battling cancer. Nobody asked for that.

But what I want to say is it relates to the violence at these riots is that if your actions look like what Donald Trump asked his goons to do on January 6 at the Capitol, you're doing it wrong. There is no place for violence. And if you have shown us. up to commit violence, you should go the fuck home. In fact, you should go to jail. There is no room for this. We don't need it. The peaceful protesters there have a case to be made, a public case that should be heard.

And I unequivocally condemn the violence. I hope the people in the crowd do the same. Los Angeles doesn't need this. And the people who have been winning in the court of public opinion against Donald Trump, they don't need this. I think that's very, very well said. Is there anything wrong in principle. I mean, people are losing their minds over it, but it's been done before. It's not completely unheard of for the federal government to use the National Guard. They haven't done it for a while, which is why it's surprising to people. But is there anything like unconstitutional about this? Well, Pierce, it wasn't requested by the mayor or the governor. And in fact, they have been pretty loudly saying, we don't want violence in Los Angeles. And so, it wasn't.

for Donald Trump to bring the National Guard in, to me, it just reflects that, you know, he's trying to draw the foul. He's not looking or acting like a solution-oriented president. He wants to draw the foul and escalate the situation. And that's why I am, you know, calling on. Oh, or, Eric, I mean, look, to be fair to Trump, if you're, if Donald Trump, you're looking at these scenes and thinking, I do not want this escalating all over California or to other cities in America. I'm going to clamp down hard and now and stop this. I don't believe that the governor has got a grip of this. And some of the scenes, I've got to say, over and light, were appalling in LA.

This was not a minor thing. There were endless cars being torched. People trying to, you know, seem to me, attempt to kill police officers in cars from bridges and so on. This is not a good situation. You know, why actually just devil's advocate? Why shouldn't Trump send him a National Guard and stop it very quickly if he feels the governor's not doing it? A leader collaborates with local officials. Gavin Newsom, I think just last month, was at the White House in the Oval Office with Donald Trump.

They have a working relationship. And I trust that those two could have sorted this out. But again, to me, Donald Trump just wants more chaos. And that's why I hope that peaceful protesters do not give him that. I hope they flood the zone with American flags today to show that, you know, this is about, you know, the size of the movement and the outrage at deporting four-year-old kids. Pierce, over the weekend, Donald Trump's ICE agents wrongfully detained a U.S. Marshal, like an American citizen U.S. Marshall. So this is not what people are asking for.

And it's also a distraction, I believe, from Donald Trump's tariffs, which are costing us more at, you know, Home Depot and Walmart. It's a distraction from inflation that continues to go up. And so we need to keep our eyes on the ball as far as, you know, the public case that we're making against Donald Trump and make it clear that there's no. no room for violence in this movie. Elon Musk and his feud with Trump has obviously been dominating headlines at the same time.

Elon's been making a lot of bail threats against Trump. Some he's deleted, some he hasn't. He's talked wimically about maybe sorting out a new party. But say for argument's sake, he wanted to come back to the Democrats, where he originally was a supporter of the Democrats. And all the people that seem to hate Musk most in America right now used to love him. Would you welcome him back with open arms?

Elon Musk if he decided to go back to where he was originally politically? What I welcome right now, and I encourage others to welcome, is his honest criticism of Donald Trump. We were right to oppose doge cuts that fired cancer scientists or reduced air traffic controllers. But it's wrong if anybody wants to shut him down as he is honestly bringing to light some of the corruption he saw at the White House. In fact, there's probably no one in the world who lost more money in a single day than Elon Musk for what he said about Donald Trump.

And what I say to the Epstein allegation that he made is Donald Trump is the most litigious person who's ever walked this earth. If Elon Musk tweeted at me and said that I was in the Epstein files, he would have a lawsuit on his desk within an hour. The fact that Donald Trump, the most litigious person in the world, has not yet sued Elon Musk for defamation, is very, very, very, very. telling and very alarming and a signal to Democrats that we need to understand at the Department of Justice, what exactly has Donald Trump ordered them to conceal from the American people? Finally, Eric Swall, the Democrats are going through a crisis of identity, which is kind of ironic, given the obsession with identity politics, the parties been following for years. And it blew up, again, one of the big issues I think the Democrats have had is a clear position on this

issue of trans athletes in women's sport. And there was a big spat that erupted on X between Simone Biles, who took on Riley Gaines in a pretty disparaging manner, I have to say, after Riley Gaines, you know, was not impressed by the fact that a trans athlete had been part of a winning girls team, I think at softball. And she said to be expected when the star player is a boy, because Marissa Rothenberg is a trans-identifying male athlete who pitched all 21 innings into victory. Now, Simone Biles came very hard for Riley Gaines about this and told her she should be uplifting the trans community and so on.

This inevitably has fueled this raging debate. You've been tipped to maybe make a presidential run one day. You may have to deal with this as a leader of the United States. Where do you sit with this? I mean, is it sustainable that any Democrat continues to think that having biological males who are identifying as trans women can compete against biological females? So I approach this first Pierce as a parent.

And what I tell people is that if other parents are asking honest questions about safety and fairness in their kids' sports, we should allow that conversation and dialogue to take place. and we should let local sports organizations and high schools sort it out. But if you're approaching this, as I think Simone Biles's concern was, if you're approaching this and you don't even accept

that a trans person should exist, I don't really want you to be a part of the conversation. And frankly, I think a lot of people who have hot takes on this issue are not parents, don't really understand sports. I played college sports. That's how I was able to go to college. as a parent who has kids who play sports,

this is an issue that doesn't really come up in many communities. And so that's why I think we should allow honest questions to be asked. But the civil rights issue here is that if you're saying that trans people should not exist, I think that's un-American. And so...

I don't think it's about whether they should exist. I think it's about they shouldn't exist in women's sport. And that's an honest conversation for... Well, the honest conversation seems to be very straightforward. I mean, there's a reason we separate sexes in the Olympics. Isn't there? I mean, the moment you think that the sexes can be just interwoven,

then you get gender neutral Olympics. And guess what? Women stop winning any medals. I mean, is that what you want? Because an honest conversation seems to me, if you don't mind me saying, I say it's respectfully, but a pretty weasel cop out. And this has been the problem that Democrats have had. They were all in the tank for this. Then they realized actually Americans didn't like it because they thought it was unfair. And now it's like we've got to have an honest conversation. What's the conversation? I mean, in all honesty, I want trans people to have the rights

to equality, safety, and the rest of it. Exactly the same as me. But I don't want them eroding women's rights. There's no honest conversation to be had. It's just like respect trans people's rights to lead their lives with the same rights as the rest of us, but don't erode women's rights in the process. End of conversation, isn't it?

Well, frankly, Pierce, I just think of all the things that we're dealing with, like, what I pay at the grocery store, whether I can afford to have a home. No, but it's way more important than you think, Eric. It's way more important than you think. It's not, though. It's not. This is where the Democrats, I'm sorry, Eric,

this is where the Democrats are getting it so wrong. If you want to know why you're so, if you want to know why you're so unpopular as a party, if you want to know why it's so unpopular, you keep saying nobody cares about this when it's obvious they do. No, I think it's okay for people to care. I'm a parent who have kids in sports. I think we should not alienate people who ask honest

questions. But I just think during my day, when I have to prioritize, like, what do I work on? What do people care about? No one's coming to me to this. It's just Republicans found, like, the last group in the world that they hadn't bullied. Gay marriage was allowed. They lost on that issue. And I think

they are exaggerated. And, but, peers, I think they're exaggerating it. They are crowding out the ability to have an honest conversation. I'm a Democrat who says, don't alienate parents who want to have an honest conversation. But this is not the most important, it's not even close to the most important conversation we should have about the issues

we face. I could not disagree with you more. Honestly, respectfully, I think you're completely wrong, slightly deluded about whether Americans care about this issue. Do you know an athlete who has lost a competition because of a trans athlete? Riley games, that's the whole point of her campaign. You know, like in your life. Riley Gaines lost to a six foot three inch biological man. Somebody that you know in your community, in your neighborhood. Somebody that you know in your, The United Nations, the United Nations, hang on, hang on. You asked me a question. Let me answer it.

The United Nations had a report recently. It said 900 women had been deprived of medals in competitive sport around the world by trans athletes beating women in sport. Are you happy with that? 900 women and a planet of 8 billion people? Like, that doesn't seem like the most important thing we should be working on. So if it was 900 women who'd been beaten by doping cheats, who'd taken, perform. enhancing drugs. Would you say it's a trivial issue because it's not millions of them, therefore we shouldn't tackle the problem? We should have conversations about it. Let locals

sort it out. But Pierce, I want you to pay less for your groceries. I want your kids to be able to buy a home when they get out of college. I want us to be strong in the world. That's the shit that I work on. I'm not focused on 900 people in a planet of 8 billion as the most important thing I should work on. Okay. We will disagree about that, Mr. Swalwood, but it's good to have you on our sensor. Thank you very much. appears. Yeah, good and take care. Let's bring about the panel.

Clay, I've got to say, I'm not impressed by, I mean, I like what he said about the riots and the need to not use violence because, of course, you're then, you know, losing the message. I think he was completely right about that. On this issue, the Riley Gaines-Biles thing, I was astonished by Simone Biles, the way she talked to Riley Gaines, and also the way she then basically body shamed her, having made a career in the last few years of standing up against Biles. body shaming. The whole thing was a real misstep by Simone Biles. But to hear someone like Eric Swalwell, who clearly is positioning himself potentially one day to maybe lead the Democrats,

again saying, hey, nobody cares about this. And we need an honest conversation. But about what? I mean, the conversation has been had. It's an honest conversation that men should not be playing in women's sports. And I think that's why Representative Swalwell's party and himself, they're lying to the American public. If it's truly not an issue, I love your example. They had hearings on steroids on Capitol Hill because they wanted to make sure that baseball was fair. Anytime, look, I coached Little League sports. I am a parent. I've got three boys. We had when I was eight, nine year olds that I was coaching. We had some girls on the team with the boys because pre-puberty, it's not an issue. Guess what? As soon as puberty happens, no women would win any sports. If we had a unisex a

not one woman would win a medal. That's why the sexes are separated. So when you lie to me and say, well, we need to have a conversation, this is not complicated. If I decided that I was trans age peers and I wanted to play Little League baseball with 10-year-olds, I would be the greatest 10-year-old little league baseball player probably in the world, humbly, right now. Every parent would say this is unacceptable because of the purpose of competition. The fact that Democrats have allowed themselves to be on this side. When the majority of Democrat voter, 67% New York Times, 94% of Republicans, 79% overall, when you're on the wrong side of an 80, 20 issue, they don't trust you on any other issue, grocery prices that he kept trying to come back to, whatever else.

They just don't buy in. And I have to do this, Pierre, sorry to say it. I love your show. My show starts in four minutes, so I'm going to bail. Really appreciate it. And Riley's on with me in a half hour. I appreciate it. keep killing it. Sorry to bail. Take care, Clay. I really appreciate it. I know you had a hard out. Thank you very much indeed. Let's bring in the other panelists here. I mean, come on, Crystal, can we at least agree on this, that this is preposterous, that Democrat politicians are still trying to say we've got to have an honest conversation.

And what they really want to do, what they really want to do is shut down any honest conversation because the only obvious conclusion of any conversation is wrong. I'm not here to carry water for any particular Democrat. Think about the topics we're covering today, okay? You have the president coming close, declaring an insurrection and calling in the National Guard on American citizens. You have an oligarch who bought the last election accusing the president of being a pedophile. You have the Trump administration having completely upended the economic order with the terror regime.

And I'm supposed to care about what happened on a Minnesota high school sports team. Yeah, you are. How is this the national issue? You're a woman, and you should care. Sorry, hang on. You may not know this about me. Hang on. Hang on. You should care about women's rights. Okay, so let the local weapon. No, let me explain to you, Crystal. Don't talk over me. Let me explain. Thank for a president. Let me explain to you why you should care. Because only last week we had the story of Imam Khalif, who is an Algerian boxer who competed in the Paris Olympics, won the gold medal, had one of the opponents who was an Italian female boxer. quit after 45 seconds because she'd never been hit that hard in her life.

A lot of us, me included, said, pointed out that Imman Khalif had been banned from the world championships for reportedly testing positive for male chromosomes, but was not banned from the Olympics and was then beating up women in a boxing ring and winning the gold medal in a women's competition. Now, last week, we discovered from the Leap Report that absolutely, Imman Khalif has male chromosomes. For all intents and purposes, Amman Khalif is a man. And a man should not be beating up

women in a boxing ring in the Olympics. So when you take the view that none of this matters, none of it matters. But here's the thing. Actually, it does matter. But peers, here's what you are letting them off the hook for completely. We were told this is just about protecting

kids and we just care. People can be whoever they are and we're not against trans people. This is just about protecting kids. Bull shit. And soon as President Trump got into power and all of these right-wing governors across the country, what do they do? They attack all trans people. So forgive me if I'm not going to join on the parade of bullying trans people. They said trans people shouldn't be in women's board. To be in there and trying to ban them for the military. They're trying to take away their rights.

They're trying to take away their civil rights. So to bury your head and stand and pretend like it's just about this niche issue. They're trying to protect. It's not a niche issue. As I've just explained to you, women are now losing out on Olympic gold medals at the altar of this bullshit. Let me bring Brian in quickly. How many high school trans athletes are there in the country? How many? Brian, until the Democrats... Hang on, Crystal, stop talking.

One in the whole state. Crystal, stop talking. Brian, let me bring you in here. Until the Democrats sort out this issue, I promise you it's going to be a stick to beat the Democrats with. And whoever leads the party, if they don't have a clear position on this, they're going to discover, exactly as Biden and Harris discovered, that actually it comes back in Hornson. It is a straightforward issue.

I'm a liberal guy at heart, right? I'm not a right-winger. I'm not a Republican, not a conservative here in the UK. But even I can see this is ridiculous, this whole debate. And to say nobody cares is nonsense. So, Pierce, I think you and I agree on a lot of social issues. We certainly agree on this one. I think it's pretty clear and cut to me.

If you're born a man transitioned to a woman, you should not be on the playing field with other women. However, I will say this, MAGA Republicans like to make the argument, we care so much about kids and women's rights, yet geography now has a bearing over a woman's body, and they're telling women what to do with their bodies. Last I checked, trans people haven't killed anybody on the playing field.

They don't want to talk about gun control. They don't want to talk about real women's rights and more important issues. I agree. You're born a man transitioned to a woman. You should not be on the playing field. By the way, most Democrats agree with us on this issue as well. That's why Eric's 4 was wrong.

Okay, final word to you, Roger. Boy, there's a lot of Trump derangement syndrome here. Let's take apart by part. There's no evidence whatsoever that Donald Trump urged his supporters to engage in violence. In fact, in fact, no, let me talk this time. No, in fact, the two Twitter posts in which he said that disappeared. Secondarily, the issue here is, men playing in women's sports.

There is no constituency for that, no place in the country. And as for this idea... What's the constituency for that? The increases in our revenue tariffs are up sharply. The cost of gasoline is down. The cost of eggs is down. Actually, I think Trump's economic plans working incredibly well. Okay.

On that positive note. So can I just say something real quick to Roger? Very quick. Can I just say something quick to Roger? So, Roger, you just said we have Trump derangement syndrome. You're the guy that's a seven-count convicted felon who Donald Trump pardoned. Okay, so if there's anybody that wears the Donald Trump knee pads 24-7, it's you. You have TFS Trump-Falachian syndrome.

You're right. You're right. When the judge doesn't allow you to mount any defense, and when the judge upholds exculpatory evidence from your trial in a Soviet trial, you go to trial at D.C. Okay. And by the way, right, you're the one with the judge. the derangement syndrome. All right. On that less positive note.

Any time, bow. Any time. On that less positive note, I'm now going to call an end to this. Thank you. I care what you think about my appearance, Roger. Thank you all very much indeed. I appreciate it.

Well, join me now is Riley Gaines, host of the Gaines for Girls Podcast on Outkick. It was sensationally called out by Simone Biles over the weekend. Riley, great to see you. I know you in your car, but I appreciate you taking time to do this for uncensored. I had to talk you today because I couldn't believe what I was reading. Honestly, on X.

Just for the context, this all started when you posted a comment under a photograph of Champlain Park softball state champions, saying to be expected when your star player is a boy. Now, the reason you did that, the comment was referring to the team's junior pitcher Marissa Rothenberger, a trans-identifying male athlete who pitched all 21 innings in the victory. And this follows a campaign you've waged for a long time that there is simply an unfair. advantage for trans athletes in women's sport. One that you know I completely agree with. That's incredibly. Simone Biles, one of the great American athletes of all time in gymnastics, replied, Riley Gaines, you're truly sick all of this campaigning because you lost a race.

Straight up, sore loser. You should be uplifting the trans community, perhaps finding a way to make sports inclusive or creating a new avenue where trans feels safe in sports. maybe a transgender category in all sports, but instead you bully them. One thing for sure is no one in sports is safe with you around. First of all, your reaction when this gymnastic legend decided to just go full bore on you like that?

Well, for a little context, this was Friday evening, okay? Like typically on the weekends, especially if I'm home, I spend so much of my time on the road. I'll put my phone away. I spend time with my husband, with my animals. I've got dogs and horses, all the things. things. So it was just about ready to put my phone up for the weekend and I get this notification on X. Something says, you know, Simone Biles tagged you in a post. I was in disbelief over this

because I am someone who has admired and respected Simone Biles for so long peers. I mean, we watched her compete what in 2024 and 2028 and 2016. So, I mean, consider me an eight-year fan of Simone Biles, all the while knowing she's, of course, very liberal, that that didn't matter to me. I still think she's the goat of all time and her sport. So I got this, I got this notification. I click on it and I read it and I read it again. And I clicked the profile to make sure this wasn't a fake account that this was the real Simone Biles calling me a truly sick, disgusting bully. Like, even still I'm in disbelief over this comment, not even because of the personal attacks. And we can talk about what she then went on to post next, basically body shaming me.

saying that, you know, bully someone my own size, which would ironically be a man, which, again, is hilarious for two reasons. Number one, she's acknowledging that men and women are physically, biologically, categorically different, but also number two, here's I'm five foot five. Like I'm 130 pounds. I would describe myself as very, very standard. Yes, I have muscles, as most athletes do, but I would imagine, I would have imagined, that's my thing.

I would have imagined that if anyone would understand that. it would be Simone Biles. Again, a woman who has, I mean, historically advocated for body positivity. She's been a part of several campaigns. That is not at all what we saw. So wasn't disbelief over this. Even still, I can't make sense of why she did this. Why in the year 2025 this is the stance that she would take?

I can't imagine she actually believes it. Being an elite level gymnast, right? Like gymnastics, men and women's gymnastics. It's not even the same sport, essentially. You don't have the rings. You don't have palm. horse in the women's. You don't have the beam in the men's. It's a totally different sport. So I can't imagine she believes this. So then I think the question is why? Why did you take this

now? What was interesting to me was aside from the ad hominem attack she made on you, and the body shaming was particularly offensive given she has positioned herself as a campaigner against body shaming women. What I thought was interesting was buried away amid all the kind of attack and talking about uplifting the trans community. No desire to uplift the integrity of women's sport, I noticed. But she said, perhaps find a way to make sports inclusive or create a new avenue where trans feels safe in sports. Again, absurd in sense that she doesn't seem to care about making women's sport

and women feel safe in their own sport, all about trans. But she said maybe a transgender category in all sports, which I thought was an interesting. admission. So around all this attack on you, there was Simone Biles, one of the great female American gymnasts ever and sports stars ever, conceding that we maybe need a transgender category in all sports. Now, that's an admission that actually you are right, Riley Gaines. So amid all the abuse, she concedes there should be a transgender category in all sports. and I think that's an important thing that we should pick up on.

But I also think, just to throw it at you a bit, from her point of view, I've seen her responding with a few people. It seemed to me what exercised her was that she feels that, although clearly she thinks there may be merit to your argument, that actually you talk about trans people in a way that exposes them to mockery and so on. Do you accept any of that criticism that maybe you could temper the language you use around, trans people, or do you think that's unfair? Peers, I use clear sex-based language.

It's not opinionated. It's not hateful. At least, it's not meant to be hateful. It's clear. It's what we've understood to be reality, at least in America. The past, I mean, nearly the 250 years we've been established as a country, and certainly much longer than that. Men are men, boys are boys, girls are girls, males are males, females are females,

mothers, their mothers. This whole idea of now, again, 250 years since we've been established to the country to totally change the most basic of truths, right? Like man and woman, it's the sheer essence of humanity, right? If you cannot understand that or if you cannot emphatically say that men cannot become women and vice versa, you have no credibility on any topic. I will not believe a single word that comes out of your mouth on anything. If you look at me and confidently say that men can become pregnant, like I'm sorry.

I don't believe a single word you say on any single topic. So no, I will not be attempting to tone down the words that I use. I tried this truthfully at first. I go back to three years ago. I believe that was the kind thing to do. I believe that was the respectful thing to do because that's what we were told. You can oppose this, but you have to be respectful in doing that. And so I did.

I referred to Will Thomas, Leah Thomas, as a she, which I knew inherently was wrong. like it went against my gut instinct to do that. And I will tell you when I changed my mind because it was this pivotal moment for me. I was on the phone with the reporter, again, very early on. This was probably two weeks after that national championships. And the reporter was asking me specifically about the locker room. And peers, I used the words, the phrase, her penis.

And I was so appalled with myself. I couldn't even believe that I said that, that something so unnatural, so unfactual came out of my mouth. And it was at that point, that I vowed, I would never, never do that again, not because of, not because I was trying to be hateful towards, towards Thomas. Again, that's never the intention. That's, I feel like that's not how I approach these things. I approach them very level-headed. I'm not a provocateur. I'm not an instigator. I'm not an agitator. I just was ashamed of myself for saying that. And then I think of my

grandma appears, right? My grandma, she's almost 70 years old. When she reads news articles and it uses the verbiage of trans woman. She doesn't even know what that means. She's like, is Riley, is this a woman who's a man or a man who's a woman? Like, she's so confused by this. People are desperate. They're hungry for clear sex-based language. So I won't be tailoring what I say. And one more point to this. In the tweet you mentioned, how Simone Bile says you should be creating this space for them. Why is that my job? Why do I have to do that. Why is it the job of women to validate the feelings of men? Why do we have to make them feel safe? Why can't they advocate for that on their own? Or why can't Simone you use your platform to do that? Why are you valiantly coming out now in the year 2025 to say this? Where were you the past three years if

you really believe this? But again, I don't think she does believe this. It's not my job to make a man feel safe. It's never been my job. They can advocate for that if they want. That's the beauty of America. You get to do that. I get to call you stupid for it. But you get to get to do it. That's the beauty of this great nation of which we live in. So Simone Biles, by all means, continue to do that with your platform, but you do not get to tell me what I should be doing with my platform. Good for you, Riley Gaines. I appreciate you finding time to come on on on, Senator. Thank you very much. Well, always for you, peers. You have really been from the beginning, one of the ones who have been outwardly supportive of people like me, J.K.

Rayleigh, so I appreciate you so much. Yeah, and the reason is that you have gone through so much abuse and now you're getting it from Simone Biles, you should know better. And yet buried away, like I said, in the middle of all the abuse, isn't a mission there should be a separate category for trans athletes, which is exactly what you've always said from the start of this. They just shouldn't compete with women because it's unfair. It's the same as doping. It's exactly the same ideology. It's that cheats who are using an unfair advantage, be it, drugs or their bodies, should not be allowed to compete against women and erode women's rights. It seems open and shut to me.

you. You're the best. Thanks, Pierce. Pierce. Piers Morgan Unsensit is proudly independent. The only boss around here is me. If you enjoy our show, we ask only one simple thing. Hit subscribe on YouTube and follow Pierce Morgan Unsensored on Spotify and Apple Podcast. And in return, we will continue our mission to inform, irritate, and entertain. And we'll do it all for free. Independent Unsensored Media has never been more critical, and we couldn't do it without you. Thank you.