Piers Morgan Uncensored - “The World Has WOKEN UP” October 7, Two Years On | Feat Mehdi Hasan

Episode Date: October 7, 2025

It’s two years today since Hamas’ horrific attack on Israeli festival goers on October 7 - and few can dispute that Israel’s response over the last 24 months has been wholly disproportionate. Hate-filled protests have since routinely reached cities across the world - and last week in the UK there was a sickening attack on a synagogue, followed quickly by another on a mosque. Finally it seems President Trump may be close to securing a deal that will put a stop to the killing and suffering - could an end to the war spell a beginning and end for Netanyahu, too? Piers Morgan is joined by Zeteo editor-in-chief, Mehdi Hasan, investigative journalist and host at The Empire Files, Abby Martin, retired lieutenant colonel and IDF spokesman, Jonathan Conricus and Netanyahu’s digital aide Hananya Naftali. Piers Morgan Uncensored is proudly independent and supported by: Chapter: For free and unbiased Medicare help, dial 910-708-7584 to speak with my trusted partner, Chapter, or go to https://askchapter.org/morgan Disclaimer: Chapter and its affiliates are not connected with or endorsed by any government entity or the federal Medicare program. Chapter Advisory, LLC represents Medicare Advantage HMO, PPO, and PFFS organizations and standalone prescription drug plans that have a Medicare contract. Enrollment depends on the plan’s contract renewal. While we have a database of every Medicare plan nationwide and can help you to search among all plans, we have contracts with many but not all plans. As a result, we do not offer every plan available in your area. Currently we represent 50 organizations which offer 18,160 products nationwide. We search and recommend all plans, even those we don't directly offer. You can contact a licensed Chapter agent to find out the number of products available in your specific area. Please contact Medicare.gov, 1-800-Medicare, or your local State Health Insurance Program (SHIP) to get information on all your options. Oxford Natural: To watch their full stories, scan the QR code on your screen or visit https://oxfordnatural.com/piers/ to get 70% off your first order when you use code PIERS. OneSkin: Get 15% off OneSkin with the code PIERS at https://www.oneskin.co/ #oneskinpod Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Jonathan, let me finish. So either stop saying my name and talking or I will respond. I know you rehearse that line. Oh, come on, man. But it's really pitiful. And I'm a bit insulted that that is what you've come up with against. Really? It's not offensive at all.

If you want to not be compared to Nazis, stop acting like Nazis. It's very simple. I think you're consumed by hatred. The fact that in the beginning. The world has woken up, my friend. When peers. Prime Minister Antonio, I was going to be remembered as a Churchill that's saying. not only Israel from radical Islam, but also Western civilization.

She is a self-described Zionist fanatic. Someone has a long history of being a pro-Israel ideologue, who just ran a piece saying the starvation in Gaza is fake. That level of bias being brought to 60 minutes to CBS, I think there'll be a lot more censorship of Palestinian voices than there already is. It's now two years since Hamas breached the Israeli border and unleashed pure hell. The terrorists inflicted suffering and atrocities, which were previously unimaginable on victims who committed no crime.

In the 24 bitter months that have followed, few can dispute that Israel's now done the same. War was inevitable. A response, as I've said many times, was justified. The same cannot be said of the starvation and civilian slaughter which had decimated Israel's international standing and brought anger and evil to our streets. A sickening attack on a synagogue in Manchester last week was followed quickly by an attack on a Sussex mosque.

Hate-filled protests have routinely reached cities across the world. Anybody with a heart knows this can't go on. And the two-year anniversary of October the 7th coincides with the biggest chance yet to finally bring this misery to an end. How close that end really is and how permanent that end will be are the subjects we're focusing on for the next hour,

as well as the very real possibility for shadow for so long that an end to the war may be the beginning of the end for Netanyahu too. Well, joining me now as Zateo editor-in-chief and CEO, Medi, great to have you back on Uncensored. It feels like an historic, moment, not just because it's the second anniversary, but because there is a peace plan which is

being taken very seriously by all sides it would seem, and which you yourself have already conceded. There are parts of this plan that you approve of. So let's go through this. Tell me what you like and what you don't like about the plan. Piers, appreciate you having me on. It's an important day. It's an important week, and it is an important plan if it can stop the violence. I just want to say one thing about your intro, you said Hamas breached Israel's border on October the 7th. Technically, Israel is the only country I know of that doesn't define its borders. It breached the fence, but Israel has never said whether it accepts that Gaza is not Israeli territory. It is actually Palestinian territory. And that comes to the plan itself, which is a plan that Donald Trump

tried to get signed off with Arab governments, as you know, peers. And then when he released it, Israel had made some edits. So it's not great to have a plan that's written by Tony Blair and Jared Kushner, and edited by Benjamin Netanyahu. Clearly it's not great for the Palestinians, but in a situation where there is a genocide going on, people like myself, we want an end to the fighting. I'm not Palestinian. Let me just be very clear. Palestinians get to decide what happens to their future, whether they fight, whether they ceasefire, whether they signed a peace deal. That is up to the Palestinian people.

But just looking at it from an analytical point of view, there are good things in the plan, an end to the fighting, top of them, a resumption of aid, a release of hostages and detainees on all sides, We all want that, right? And end to starvation, we hope. By the way, the plan says that if the plan is agreed, aid will be fully resumed, which is a concession peers, that aid hasn't been fully resumed,

unlike all the Israelis who've been on your show and told you, oh, aid, there's enough aid. Well, why does a plan say that aid has to go up then? Has to be resumed. Anyways, part that for a moment. Those are the good things. End to violence, end to starvation, I hope, would be the good things. The bad things are that it's a very colonial plan.

plan. A lot of Palestinians have described it to me as colonial. Tony Blair and Donald Trump should have nothing to do with the running of Gaza. This plan puts them on some board of peace. I think you and I would agree that Tony Blair has been nothing but a disaster for the Middle East. To bring him back here is insanity. And of course, when you look at the plan itself, peers, it's not a peace plan because peace requires a settlement to the conflict. It requires justice for the Palestinian people. It requires an end to the occupation. This plan does not do that. Netanyahu himself has told Israelis, there's nothing in this plan that says statehood. There's a vague mention of it peers where it says if the Palestinian Authority reforms itself,

if Gaza's redeveloped, if Israel decides there's no resumption of terror, then there will be a pathway to peace and statehood. It's all very vague. It's very conditional. It doesn't deal with the core issue, which I've been telling you on your show for over a year now, is the occupation. Hamas is not the core issue. Hamas is a symptom of the core issue. The core issue is occupation. And this plan does nothing for that. It also leaves Israel in control of at least 20% of the territory, maybe a majority. I mean, Amit Seagal, who's a journalist, very close to Benjamin Netanyahu, he said over the weekend, this leaves Israel in control of the majority of the strip as long as we want. Do you agree with the general consensus that Hamas can play no part in any government going forward

in either Gaza or the West Bank? Hamas agrees to that, Pierce. Hamas. So the difference between what Hamas has offered to Biden and Trump, and what Trump has come up with. This is where the big sticking point is. Hamas has always agreed to a hostage release deal, all for all, they call it. We'll release all the hostages if you release all the Palestinian detainees

or you've illegally taken, including the ones since October the 7th, which are mentioned in this plan, thankfully. That's one thing they've always offered, and it's in this plan. The other thing they've always offered is we won't be part of government, have an independent committee of Palestinian technocrats, independent, non-political folks, not from the PA, not from Hamas, not from Fatah. They agree to that. Israeli negotiators have admitted they agreed to that.

of Minda. What's different in this deal is the demilitarization point, right? The Israelis added this in, at the very late stage, which is you must give up all your weapons at the very beginning of this ceasefire. That's the sticking point, which Hamas in their statement on Friday, Piers, you saw, haven't signed up to. That's what they're going to be arguing about now in the coming days. But in terms of not being part of the government, Hamas already agreed to that, peers. We could have had this deal under Biden. We could have had this deal in January when Trump came into office with a ceasefire that the Israelis then broke. This deal's been on the table, a version of it for over a year and a half now,

Matthew Miller, the former Biden State Department spokesman, who you know, he said that. You know, that even there, Netanyahu came along and added poison pills. The Israelis have added poison pills throughout. Hostages families, you've interviewed the families of hostages, I've interviewed the family of hostage. They said it consistently that we could have had a deal,

but Netanyahu and Ben-Gavir Smotridge, they blocked it at every turn. And it seems to me that one of the pivotal moments in changing the narrative here and speeding things up was the extraordinary ill-advised attack on Doha by the Israelis when they were trying to take out the Hamas commanders

as they were literally meeting to discuss the peace plan. And they failed in that mission. They killed the Qatari security servicemen in the process, along with other people who were not involved at all with Hamas. And the approbriam that they got them, not just from the Middle East, where there was complete outrage, and in particular, obviously, in Qatar,

but also from apparently President Trump, who blew up in a fury at Netanyahu. You know, it would be truly ironic if that act of, in mind you, just completely indefensible, I mean, illogical, to be honest with you, attack on Doha. If that turns out to be the catalyst

for getting the deal done. Yeah, so let me agree and disagree with you. I agree with you, peers, that it was indefensible and it would be ironic if that leads to some kind of end to the fighting. It's not illogical, though. I just want your viewers to understand. If you are an expansionist Israeli government, you don't want peace with the Palestinians.

You don't want peace with the Lebanese. You don't want peace in the region. You want to keep expanding. Piers, you may have seen Benjamin Netanyahu recently said an interview. He supports the idea of a greater Israel, which is a bat-shit crazy idea that some people used to say was a conspiracy theory on the Israeli far right. It was only mad people like Smotridge. The Prime Minister of Israel said recently in interview.

He supports the idea of greater Israel, which means taking territory from Syria and Lebanon, maybe Saudi Arabia, Jordan, and creating a greater Israel, even bigger than they already have, illegally. So it's not illogical from that point of view that you wouldn't want to do a peace deal. They always killed the negotiators. Piers, I came on your show after they bombed Iran, and I told you about Ali Shamkani, who was the main nuclear negotiator, who was negotiating with the Americans.

Trump had shared a tweet praising his position, and Israel targeted. They thought they killed him. Actually, he survived. But they always targeted. They killed last year. They killed Hania in Tehran when he was leading the negotiations. They attacked, as you point out, in Doha, the Hamas negotiating team who were meeting to discuss negotiations. Go back to 2012.

They killed a guy called Ahmad Jabari from Hamas, who was in the middle of signing off on a permanent truce with Israel. They killed him. There's a long history of Israel undermining negotiations, ceasefires, truces. So it's not illogical because they don't actually want peace. And Netanyahu in D.C., peers, you saw last week when Trump announces this deal, he says it's a great day in history. It'll bring, you know, classic hyperbillian bombast from. Trump. Netanyahu goes and does a video in Hebrew and says, hey, we got a win here. We're not leaving the strip. And then the guy behind the camera says, what about statehood? He goes,

there's nothing for statehood in this plan. Remember what these say about Arafat peers, that he says one thing in Arabic and another thing in English? Netanyahu's the master of that. He tells the Western media and Trump what they want to hear in English. And then he tells his right-wing base and his cabinet in Hebrew, yeah, we're not going anywhere. This is not a peace deal. It's Medicare annual enrollment and people age 64 and above should prepare to be bombarded with hundreds of phone calls and texts from agents for simply pushing the Medicare plans which pay them the most. This is one message you won't want to skip. Most Medicare plans change every year, and many just disappear. Even if you like your current Medicare plan, it's critical to look

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By doing this, Chapter has helped people to save an average of $1,100 a year. Click the link below to Talk to Chapter and take back control of your healthcare. Call Chapter Today at 9107087584. Let me play devil's advocate. with Tony Blair for a moment because I, as you know, I oppose the Iraq War very vociferously and I believe that was the beginning of the end of his tenure and reputation in the UK, certainly. But it's interesting to chart what's happened with him since. He became a Middle East peace envoy. He's put an awful amount of hours and time and effort into trying to resolve

difficulty over there. And all right, it's like putting the fox in the hen coop. I totally get all that. I do remember having a long conversation with him before I went to interview Netanyahu for CNN where his understanding of the conflict and the difficulties and the problems and everything was extraordinary. There's no doubt about that. And I'm also reminded of what he achieved in Northern Ireland, which was another seemingly intractable problem between the Protestants and the IRA and no one thought it could ever be resolved. And Blair put the yards in, put the hours in, work with Clinton,

worked with Mitchell and the others, and they finally got a deal done. You know, sometimes, you know, and in that deal, of course, Martin McGuinness and Jerry Adams, who'd been, you know, senior IRA figures became, you know, senior politicians. So there's a kind of, you know, there's a background here, which I think has to be taken in totality. Is it completely insane that somebody like him can form a group, which at least supervise a transition potentially, hopefully, to a place? where Palestine gets a recognizable state of its own?

So big picture, I think the entire idea of Trump, Blair, anyone else on this board is insane. The whole problem with Palestine is it's a legacy of colonialism. We don't need more Western colonialism. We need more self-determination. If you want to bring in local Arab countries, fine. Even that will be problematic. But really it has to be led by people on the ground,

not by outsiders. Donald Trump couldn't find Gaza on a map if his life dependent on it. And Tony Blair, let me deal with Blair specifically. So obviously you and I oppose the... the Iraq war. It was a disaster. He lied. It wasn't just a mistake. It was a war crime. Tony Blair should be heading to the Hague, not to Gaza. I wrote a piece for Zateo, laying out the case against Blair being involved in the future of Gaza. People can read it at Zateo.com. I will just be very brief and say this. He has hundreds of thousands of Arabs blood on his hands.

The idea that you would go to Gaza where Arabs are being killed for the last two years and that Blair, of all people, has any credibility with the Palestinian people. I've not met a single Palestinian who views him as anything other than a war criminal. And even if you put Iraq to one side, you mentioned his Middle East envoy role for the quartet between 2007, 2015. It was a complete failure. Everyone agrees it was a failure. Go back and read the Financial Times editorial the day he resigned. They said it was a complete failure. He got nothing done. He was seen as just a proxy for the Israelis. He would say whatever the Israelis wanted. And that leads me to my last point, you rightly raised Northern Ireland. The reason he succeeded with Mo Moellum and Clinton and Jonathan Powell and others

in Northern Ireland is because Britain was ended up being a fair broker. Both sides could trust them. Of course both sides had their criticisms, the unionists and the Sinn Féin side especially. But ultimately, Britain was trying to bring that conflict to an end in a way that involved talking to everyone.

They've never applied that logic to the Middle East. Blair doesn't see Palestinians as equal to Israel. He is self-confessed a pro-Israel guy. This is the problem with all Western interventions when it comes to Palestine. They're never neutral brokers. The United States is not an impartial negotiator. To quote Aaron David Miller, a former Clinton negotiator,

we are Israel's lawyer. That is what the US is. That is what the West is. That is certainly what Tony Blair is. So, yeah, he doesn't have any credibility. And by the way, don't even get me started on the conflicts of interest. The guy makes money from deals.

Every time he's in the Middle East, him and Jared Kushner have no credibility. They're both making money on side deals in the Middle East while they're trying to bring supposedly peace and redevelopment to Gaza. Zero credibility, peers. It'll end in tears. Talking of people making people making. a lot of money. Barry Weiss,

formerly the New York Times, has just sold her free press business of just four years standing to Paramount. David Ellison has bought it, the new boss of Paramount, and she's been put in charge of CBS News. Some people on the pro-Palestinian side

are very concerned because she has obviously very pro-Israeli history. Are you concerned? Or are you also, given that you and I and other, made a similar leap into the brave world of individuals running their own kind of media entities. And she's obviously a massive success story in a very rapid period of time. What do you make of what's happened with Barry Weiss and the Free Press? And are you concerned about maybe whatever influence you may have on CBS News?

Yeah. No, I'm very concerned. And sorry to do a second plug for Zetao. I don't normally do this. But we just ran a big piece last night from my colleague Premtaker talking to insiders at CBS News, who make the point that some of the stuff that Barry Weiss ran at the free press wouldn't even meet CBS editorial standards.

They would get fired at CBS for running that stuff. CBS News just, it's not perfect. I have many criticisms of CBS News, like I do, like you do of all mainstream media. But they just ran a very good investigation last week, peers about how Israel bombed the flotilla in Tunisia, even denying it was them. But they spoke to US intelligence

and showed that actually Netanyahu signed off on a drone strike on the flotilla. Is that the kind of story that Barry Weiss would publish under her reign at CBS News? She's a self-descressed, self-described, excuse me, Zionist fanatic. The idea that a quote-unquote neutral media organization is led by someone has a long history of being a pro-Israel ideologue, who has a history of trying to censor Palestinian voices when she was at university,

who just ran a piece saying the starvation in Gaza is fake. It's not true. Nobody's starving in Gaza. That level of editorial standards, that level of bias being brought to 60 minutes to CBS, it's really worrying. And you and I, you do a show called Peers Unsensored. I think there'll be a lot more censorship of Palestinian voices than there already is now at CBS News with her in charge. David Ellison, the guy who's hired her, the son of Larry Ellison.

Again, the Ellison family is very, very pro-Israel. Larry Ellison is the biggest single private donor to the Israeli military, to friends of IDF. They've made very clear what their biases are. They've made very clear why they're hiring her. They've made very clear why they're buying TikTok. Because as you said in the introduction, peers, public opinion is turning against Israel. So these folks are doubling down on messaging, doubling down on trying to control. what we see in here online and on TV.

So it's very worrying for those of us who believe in free speech. Well, let's see. I give her the benefit of the doubt. I tweeted it today to congratulate her on an amazing deal. I saw it. Whatever people think, it's an amazing turnaround. I mean, you and I know it's not worth $150 million. You and I both think it's not worth $150 million.

That is the Ellison's taking care of Barrymore. You and I should absolutely pray that these businesses are worth that much in such a short period of time because then you and I will be laughing all the way to the bank. But no, what I think is... Inshallah. I do remember her being kind of... forced out of the New York Times by the woke mob. And I do like...

That's false, Pierce. Well, it's not really. It's not really. It's not really. But anyway... I will, like always, I'll give her the benefit of the doubt until her if she ever proves me wrong. So we'll see. I think it's going to be a hell of a rollercoaster ride

with her in charge of CBS News. And honestly, if I'm honest about it, I think mainstream media in America, the mainstream music media in particular has had her stick up its ass for a long time. And it's about time that stick got broken and they got brought into the real world. And it'll be interesting to see what happens.

She's not the solution. I agree with you about the stick of the ass. She is not the solution. We shall see. Medi, great to have you back on Uncensored, always. Well, join me now is Hanania Naftali, a digital aid to Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyai. Welcome to Unsensored, Mr. Naftali.

We're just talking to Medi Hassan there. He's concerned about something that's very much in your wheelhouse about the influences he puts it from David Ellison, who's now running Paramount, the appointment of Barry Weiss now to run CBS News and the purchase of her free press business and so on. Do you understand that concern? Have you had any conversations with David Ellison,

with Barry Weiss that could delay those concerns? I didn't have any conversation with Barry Weiss in particular, but I listened to the interview, and I have to say it almost sounds from listening to Medi Hassan that being pro-Israel is a curse. So, you know, I would just like to make it very clear. I'm proud to be pro-Israel. I'm proud to be Zionists.

And I think that there's nothing to be ashamed of that. Israel is actually at the forefront of fighting for the sake of Western civilization, and there's nothing to be ashamed of that. But on top of that, I have to say that the fact that they, Mehdi, at least, raised serious concerns about one media outlet that's being relatively pro-Israel in, you know, the way I see it, in a war. full of anti-Israel mainstream media, that's actually a blessing to have for once an outlet

that reports the facts. What is your digital aid? What does that actually involve? What do you actually do? Today's show is brought to you by Oxford Natural, makers of the optimum day and optimum night, all natural supplements. Thousands of Brits and Americans are already taking them

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Use the code peers, P-I-E-R-S, and get 70% off your first order. Get 70% off with the promo code, Peers. Well, I've been working for Prime Minister

Netaniel for quite some time. I'm part of the digital team. That it's, you know, in practically speaking, it's actually helping to manage the social media accounts and to basically be able to deliver the Prime Minister's messages out to the public.

And I'm very proud to be able to do that. I think that Prime Minister Netanyahu is actually, he is going to be remembered as a Churchill, if you ask me, that saved not only Israel from radical Islam, but also Western civilization, because we are right now in a fight. And while everybody around the world is busy blaming Israel, for the world's problems, we are actually facing a serious issue. You see radical Islam taking over the world.

You saw that with the Manchester attack. You see this in the rise in anti-Semitism. And I'm, you know, the question that I'm asking is if their problem, Pierce, is only with Israel, then why do we see rise in anti-Semitic attacks against Jewish people who do nothing but wanting to live and pray freely without being, without the need to fear for their lives. Pierce, we are probably the one group in the world that is advised to hide our identity. When I travel and speak about Israel abroad, I'm advised to hide who I am. But, of course, the way I see it, we have nothing to be ashamed of.

But the sad part is that Israel is not allowed to win wars these days. You know, I have to tell you, you know, Thatcher saved Britain's economy from collapse. Churchill saved the world from fascism. And right now, Netanyahu is doing what every great leader does, saving its citizens, fighting to bring freedom and victory. But quite frankly, we're seeing right now that, based on mainstream media outlet, we have to lose.

We have to lose because we're Jewish. We have to lose because we're Jewish. to lose because we're strong, and we have to lose because we refuse to back down. Well, I don't think it's, I don't think anybody, look, I'd take issue with that. I don't think anybody wants Israel to lose. I think what people have been increasingly concerned about, and I'm one of these people, is the scale of the response to October the 7th. Here we are two years later.

The war aims were to defeat Hamas, which has not happened, were to have the hostages release. That hasn't happened either. There's been no hostage release now for many, many months. And the war aims have not been achieved, but in the process, 75% of Gaza has now been completely destroyed. The functionality of Gaza has been pretty well reduced to nothing, with the hospitals, schools, everything being reduced to rubble. And that you've got over 60,000 people being killed. We don't know exactly how many are Hamas, but we do know that it's an estimated 20,000 plus children who've now been killed in this. And it's the scale of what's been going on, the total devastation strategy, which has really concerned the world and has made Israel's government increasingly a pariah government.

And, you know, as somebody who has always supported Israel, who absolutely defended Israel's right to defend itself. In fact, felt that Israel deduced you to do that after October the 7th. You know, I'm very sad to see that so many people, you know, you ask why are Jewish people, feeling threatened and coming under attack. It's horrific. There's nothing worse than anti-Semitism. It's a disgusting thing, particularly given the history of the Holocaust and so on. But there are clearly people who are using what they see is the massively disproportionate response of the Israeli government to October the 7th as an excuse to persecute Jews.

And I've said this for a while now, that it really concerns me that the longer this goes on in Gaza, the more unpopular the Israeli government makes Israel, and the more dangerous it makes life for Jewish people. And some people respond to me saying things like that, but I'm saying, well, you're an anti-Semite. Well, I'm not. I love Israel as a country. I love Israeli people.

I know many of them. And I want Israeli people to live in prosperity and security, but I also want Palestinian people to enjoy the same liberties that Israeli people have. And I think we should better have these conversations without being branded anti-Semitic. I think it's a fatuous. thing for people to say if you're not actually anti-Semitic.

There are, as you know, enough anti-Semitic people out there to not include people who are not anti-Semitic. So that is where I think Israel's got itself. Well, I have to join your remarks and actually say that as an Israeli, as a Jew, I love the Palestinian people. I don't wish for any human being to suffer. You know, but actually it's very sad to see that the amount of suffering that Hamas brought to the people in Gaza.

You know, to think, I'm not saying that you're implying that, but when people imply that we Israelis take joy and celebrate when we see Palestinians suffer, it's insane, of course not. I don't celebrate when I see people suffer. But on the other hand, I do remember who danced in the streets and celebrated when Hamas butchered my people on 7th of October. But I also have to say back to, in response to what you said, Israel is acting in accordance with international law,

with the armed conflict law, with the Geneva Convention, that actually says that the genocide convention that basically says that in order to carry out a genocide, you need to have an intent to destroy a group of people. And clearly, you know it, and I know it, that Israel has an incredible military capability. If Israel wanted, it could have erased Gaza in two days. And here we are, two years later, and you see that we're still at war.

And it's because Israel is upholding the highest standards of human rights. We don't want to harm the Palestinian population. And as a matter of fact, when I served in the Israel Defense Forces, I was never taught to target civilians. And as a combat medic later on, I treated it. And I saved with my own hands. an Israeli soldiering, the Israel defense forces, I saved the lives of Palestinian people.

So I want to use this opportunity and say that we don't hate the Palestinian people. Those that say I hate someone just because they're Palestinian, they're in the wrong, and they don't represent. I certainly haven't accused you of that. I mean, my question for you would be, are you a journalist now? Do you consider yourself a journalist? Well, I do Israel activism on social media, and I think that it's very important to have a conversation with the other side.

But, you know, I have to agree. The reason I'm asking about journalism is, you know, a lot of Israeli guests come on and they say we are the most moral army in the world. Everything we do is incredibly ethical. There's nothing we're doing which could remotely constitute war crimes and so on. To which my response as a journalist is, if that is the case, why is there an ongoing ban against international journalists going in? into Gaza, because every war correspondent I know is desperately get in there to verify the Israeli claims, right? And if it turns out that everything the Israeli government has been saying

about what it's been doing is true, then fine. But there seems to be a growing suspicion that the reason why Prime Minister Netanyahu continues to ban international journalists is because he's doing stuff he doesn't want the world to see. Well, I think that the reason, first of all, I heard the Prime Minister Netanyahu saying on an interview that journalists should be able to enter into the Gaza Strip and report, but we have to keep in mind that it is an active war zone. And you have to make sure that you are safe. We want to keep the lives of journalists. He's not doing it out of the safety of the journalists.

Let's try and have a grown-up conversation. Netanyahu's decision to ban international journalists has got nothing to do with him being worried about the safety of journalists. If he was concerned about the safety of journalists, and their well-being, then over 200 Palestinian journalists would not have been killed so far in this war, which is a record number for any conflict of modern times. So I think this argument that's put up with all due respect that it's for the health and safety concerns

for the journalists is nonsense. I think that it would be incumbent on Israel right now to actually let journalists in to do their job and to verify either way whether what the Israeli government has been saying about what has been doing in Gaza is true or not. And the longer that ban remains in place, the more the presumption will be, and I completely understand this presumption,

will be that we are not being told the truth, and there is a reason for this ban continuing. Today's show is sponsored by One Skin, which can help all of us look even younger. One Skin is redefining skin care with cult favourites like OS1, body, face and eye, build around their patented OS1 peptide, which is clinically proven to target senescent cells, a key driver of skin aging. Back by five clinical studies,

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This is P-I-E-R-S at OneSkin.com. That's 15% off-1Skin.com with Code Peers. After you purchase, they'll ask you where you heard about them, so please support our show and tell them that we sent you. Well, I have to say on that note what I know, which is there was an instruction to allow journalists in, and I don't know what the Israeli Army is doing in that regard. but I have to say that I think that generally should be allowed to go in,

but at the same time, we have to make sure that they are being safe because you're entering an active war zone, and Gaza is a very... They know how to operate. Again, look, with all due respect, Han Yan, I know lot of war correspondents from CNN, from BBC, from Reuters. I've employed many of them when I ran newspapers. They do their own risk assessment.

Their networks do their own risk assessment. lawyers do. That's what they do all the time. They're operating in war zones all the time. You know, half of them have just been in Ukraine. You know, this is not something there, they're not newbies to this business. This is just an unprecedented situation where for two years of a war, they have been literally prevented from doing their job on the ground because the controlling party here, the Israeli government, has issued a ban. And we all know that. So I just find it extraordinary that this ban goes on. And the Israeli government doesn't understand the longer it goes on, the more suspicious it gets. Well, I have to say on that note, obviously, we also know who else

is in Gaza. We have 48 hostages. And to me, it's just insane that you have Hamas, a terror organization that holds the bodies of hostages, dead hostages, that are in the Gaza street. I agree. And they won't even let them come home. But, you know, Pierce, I have to say on that note, I just saw a few days ago an image that just, I just have to share this with you. I saw an image of Abigail Idan.

She was kidnapped. When she was three years old, Hamas kidnapped her on the 7th of October. And there was a picture of her carrying her school back and heading to school after being returned to Israel. So I think that this is the truth. victory that we see, that life in Israel goes on, and we are not going anywhere. And I think that, you know, in regards to this whole peace plan and the efforts being made to

bring our hostages back and put an end to this war, because we all know, and I think you would agree with me as well, that we have to end this war as soon as possible. And for, you know, the sooner the better, all while remembering that we must bring the hostages as soon as possible. that they're there is a day in a living hell. And as we're speaking right now, there are still hostages in the dungeons of Hamas suffering simply because they're Jewish.

Listen, you won't get any different agreement for me about the hostages. It's a disgusting, ongoing war crime that these hostages have been kept by Hamas. Thank you for acknowledging that. I've acknowledged it every day. I've covered the story. Hamas are a despicable terrorist organization.

The snatching of hostages was disgusting. The murder of 1,200 people was disgusting. The wounding of nearly 7,000 more was disgusting. Everything about that attack two years ago was disgusting. With regard to the peace deal that you just referenced, you know, a lot of people, clearly a lot of momentum now trying to make this happen, a lot of people believe the catalyst for the real momentum

came with a furious denunciation by President Trump of Prime Minister Netanyahu about the attack by Israeli forces on Doha, on Hamas negotiators, that was done without prior agreement from the United States. Doha obviously has a huge American military base there, the biggest in the Middle East for American forces. And the moment that happened, I was like, what the hell is Israel doing? Why on earth would it, a, attack in Doha, knowing how inflammatory that would be to the whole Middle East and to all the rulers of all the Middle East countries, as it has been, it would enrage President

and Trump, he's a close friend of the Emir of Qatar. I know that because I saw them together in Doha, at the state dinner earlier this year. And I couldn't understand anything about this. None of it made sense. And we now understand the Prime Minister Netanyahu apologized to the Prime Minister of Qatar for what happened. Donald Trump has now given security guarantees to Qatar that if this happens again, the United States will get involved in defending Qatar's interests. It seemed to me a calamitously bad decision.

And it failed. You know, no Hamas commanders were killed. A Qatari security guy was killed. Other people, totally unconnected, were killed. I mean, you concede now that this whole thing was a complete fiasco and should never have happened. Do I need to remind our viewers on the 7th of October how we saw the leaders of Hamas that, by the way,

enjoyed their lives. No, no, you don't need to remind anyone of that. We all, I've just said. It was everything that happened in October the 7th was disgusting. but how do you defend attacking in Doha a group of people who are literally sitting down to negotiate a peace plan? What message does that send to the world

about Israel's commitment to actually wanting peace? I didn't understand it then. I don't understand it now. We've now got an apology from your prime minister, your boss, fine, but why did he do it? Well, first of all, I have to say it's totally okay to have different opinions, but I have to say, in my opinion,

Hamas cannot be trusted to have peace. It needs to be enforced on Hamas because we all know very well what the Hamas Charter says. They will never tolerate an Israeli state next to them. They don't want a state next to Israel. They don't want anything that has the word Israel or Jew in it. So their charter says it very clearly

that they wish to destroy Israel and build an Islamic... Islamic State on top of that. So quite frankly, we're not happy about those wishes, as you would as well, or any Britain that would hear something like that, if you had a neighbor that said, hey, I wish to kick you out of your home and actually kill everybody and build an Islamic State on top of that. So quite frankly, we're not going to let that happen. So Israel has every right to do what it has to do in order to safeguard our future.

and look, some people are not going to like what Israel is doing. That's okay. You know, I have to say that, and that's not directed to you, but the people that stayed silent when we were under attack, and, you know, then later all of the sudden woke up when we are defending ourselves. So I advise them to keep and be silent when we do what is necessary to bring our hostages back and trust me, the way I see it, Israel is doing everything in its power to bring the hostages back.

And until now, Prime Minister Nainal was able to bring, if I'm not wrong, about 207 hostages back, living and dead. You know, we can't forget the Bibas family, for example, that were just brutally massacred and later returned home. So at the end of the day, we in Israel are dealing, the Middle East is a tough neighborhood. You make peace through strength, not through stupid concessions. We have tried that. In 2005, Israel, we drew completely from the Gaza Strip, hoping to get peace. Did we get peace in return? Of course, no. We got rockets. We got all kinds of terror attacks, tunnels. I wish for the Palestinian people to finally have a leadership that cares about them more than their own pockets in the bank accounts or about this Sikh ideology to destroy another nation. because at the end of the day,

we Israelis have offered the Palestinians peace multiple times. And I have to say, again, we, as an Israeli, I don't hate Palestinians, we can have disagreements, but at the end of the day, we need to acknowledge that Israel is a fact and it's here to stay. And at the same time, I say,

the Palestinians are also, they're living, and I'm against kicking anyone, kicking Palestinians from their homes. Okay, final question. I've interviewed Prime Minister Netanyahu three times before, including a few months before October the 7th. He's declined every single request we've made since, which has been, I think, pretty much every week for the last two years.

Maybe you could put a good wording for us and see if the Prime Minister would come on on Centson again and answer some tough questions. Because I think it's time that he and I had a chat. Well, it's not something that I heard about, but I would definitely love to forward. forward your request to the team. But at the end of the day, I think that there are a lot of people

that bash Israel constantly without really any evidence. So I think that it's really great to have an actual conversation and to be allowed to speak our minds as well and speak my mind. So thank you for that. Well, I appreciate you coming on Unsensored, Hanania Naftali, making your debut on the show. Thank you very much. Well, joining us after our continuing October 7th coverage

is Abby Martin, the investigative journalist, and host at the Empire Files. And Jonathan Comrickis, the retired Lieutenant Colonel and IDF spokesful. Welcome to both of you. Both have, of course, been uncensored numerous times before. Abby Martin, where are you with this deal? Do you believe this deal is workable, that it can actually be the start of lasting peace?

Well, of course, I welcome an end to the unrelenting slaughter and bloodletting for the past two years. There's been hundreds of October 7th that have happened in Gaza. Of course, I welcome the cessation of massacres. The bare minimum demand for the last two years has been a ceasefire. So, of course, I welcome that. I think it's a big gamble by Hamas. I mean, this entire negotiations is basically putting Palestinians the barrel of a gun to their head and saying, subject, surrender, or die. First of all, no Palestinians were at the negotiating table. It was Gulf client states speaking on their behalf, Netanyahu and Kushner,

who's personally invested in the settlement process. The whole gamble of releasing all the remaining hostages dead and alive within a 72-hour window is logistically insane. And of course, it's basically acting in good faith from the Israeli government, a pathologically lying serial killing state. Why should we believe anything that they say? They're saying they're not going to release any of the hostages. The 1700 Palestinians they've been holding after October 7th, many women and children. Aside from that, they're talking about putting in a technocratic governing body by the likes of Tony Blair. I mean, this is basically cementing the subjugation of Palestinian. peers. And I think the most cartoonish thing of all is the demand for full demilitarization

of Hamas and other armed factions. I mean, basically what that is saying is that the precursor and justification for genocide is the notion of armed resistance. Jonathan, let me finish. The notion of armed resistance, which is a legally enshrined right in international law. That is not a justification or precursor for genocide. In what reality are we living in that the victims of a genocide are being asked to make concession? to the people committing genocide against them. If you do not agree at this point two years in that the state that needs to be demilitarized

and de-radicalized, frankly, is not the state committing genocide, then you're part of the problem. Okay, but on that last point, before I go to Jonathan, why should a group, Hamas, who perpetrated one of the worst terror attacks of modern times, why should they be entitled to any power

at the end of all this? Why should they not demilitarize? Why should they not have all their arms taken away as part of a deal? I don't really understand the logic there. I mean, you can have your view about the Israeli government and the way the IDF has conducted this war. But why should Hamas have any rights to anything, frankly? Well, Hamas already has said many, many times that they would completely relinquish governing authority. They have already said that they don't want to govern Gaza Strip. That's not enough. But why can't? But why can you? Wait, wait, why would they give up their arms without, hold on, why would they give up their arms without any sort of assurance for national statehood or sovereignty? Why would they do that, peers?

Why would you give up a right, a legally enshrined right to armed resistance to an illegal besiegment and occupation without any sort of assurances or promises of statehood? Well, again, I'll come to Jonathan, and I will come to you, Jonathan, but I would argue that when you commit a terrorist act of that magnitude, then you abrogate all your rights to demand anything. The Israeli government position... Okay, so why is the logic not applied to the IDF? Well, I'll come to Jonathan for that question a moment, but I'm just curious why you would think

that Hamas has any rights about any of this. I mean, surely when you do what they did in October the 7th, two years ago, in that moment, you surrender your right to anything. You can ask for it, but you don't have any rights left. I mean, you're basically saying, we are a despicable terror group. We're committing this outrage, and we're going to kidnap and kill and...

and do all the rest of it, but at the end of it, we want rights to demand things. That's not really how it works with terror groups. Well, that's exactly what Israel's doing. For the last two years, we've been seeing the most bloody genocide on steroids. This is Israel for who it is. This is their true nature and character. So why on earth do they get the right to make concessions? They are a rogue maniac state, killing all of their neighbors, bombing all of their neighbors.

They need to be stopped. They need to be stopped. Why do they have any rights to demand? concessions for the victims of the genocide that they're perpetrating, Peir. Okay. Why? All right. Well, let me ask Jonathan.

Why? Is that really the question, Pierce, that you're asking me? Well, I think it's an interesting flip question to one I asked, I asked, which I didn't really get a satisfactory response to, which is actually, to me, Hamas have no right to demand anything here. And clearly, the Netanyahu government position is that we will carry on pulverizing Gaza until the last Hamas terrorist is left dead in the ground. long as that takes, and everybody is intent on trying to stop that happening because of the

collateral damage to so many civilians and so much property and so on. But of course, the flip side is the argument comes back. Well, prior to October the 7th, and since October the 7th, in particular, the Israeli government, many people on the Palestinian side believe have behaved like a rogue terrorist state themselves. So what right do they have to determine what happens here afterwards. Yeah, I regret the parity. I think it's a totally false, dishonest. Actually, it's an absurd parity that is being made here. And I think it's very interesting to hear that, you know, even countries like Qatar, Turkey, Egypt, Pakistan, and a few other Muslim majority countries who have no long record of loving Israel or publishing positive statements or things

that can be aligned with Israeli security interests, they are behind this initiative, and they are saying, Hamas has no right to hold weapons, Hamas must be disarmed, Hamas should not govern the Gaza Strip, and Hamas must return all of the hostages. They're also asking, of course, demanding

that Israel withdraw from the Gaza Strip and that there will be a pathway to a Palestinian state. And, you know, for most people who are normal and not consumed by Jew hatred, and this feverish anger and hatred towards those annoying Jews who have their homeland in Israel, for most people who are sane, that makes sense. And it makes sense for Israel to actually dictate the terms against Hamas.

It makes sense for Israel to defend itself, not only against October 7, but against an organization that has both written and said multiple times before October 7, during, and after October 7, that it is their outspoken goal and intention to annihilate the Jewish state. So for me, there's really no question what needs to happen here. This war cannot and must not end without a defeated Hamas,

without Hamas that is completely dismantled of its military capabilities, and without a fresh start for people in Gaza. And I think that those are the very basic prerequisite. We'll have to see now if Hamas, how clever they'll be able to be, and I think they maneuvered diplomatically pretty well. They said that they're going to return hostages. Teams are now in place in Sharma, Sheikh, in Egypt, and they're going to start discussing the details.

But the Israeli and American, and actually, Qatari, condition is first hand over all the hostages, dead and murdered, and then we start negotiating on all of the other, the long and very substantial list of the 20 points, 21 points, remain. I hope that Hamas will do it. I hope that Hamas will be true to their words for once. I hope that they will return the hostages, those that they murdered and those that are still in captivity more than two years, suffering, starving, abused, and everything. And I hope that they will be returned to their families. And then we can start looking at the withdrawal of Israeli forces, stopping military operations, and perhaps building a different Gaza. If you ask me

if that's going to happen, what the chances are. We unfortunately have our experience, and we know that Hamas, they lie, they're deceitful, they're extremely cruel, and they will do everything they can to stay in power at the expense of the population in Gaza, at the expense of Palestinians. But I hope that for once, in their short history, Hamas will do what's good for Gazans and not for the Muslim Brotherhood and not for Hamas itself. But we'll have to wait and see. Abby, you were laughing a little inappropriately

as he was talking about Hamas' need to release the hostages. Why would that be something that makes you laugh? I mean, surely that should be a pre-recognizant. I wasn't laughing at that. No, look, I want, of course I want all hostages, both Palestinian and Israeli hostages, to be released. I wasn't laughing at that. I was laughing at the audacity of Jonathan

to just gaslight and lie and project everything that Israelis are doing onto Hamas and on to Palestinians, the audacity to look at Gaza today, which is completely demolished. We just saw the finance minister saying the demolition's done. Now that real estate bonanza begins, Netanyahu has said bragging over and over again, we're not going to withdraw. You think we're going to withdraw? It's a joke, Jonathan. The world knows you are lying. You have lost the plot. You know who can't come home to 17,000 children that Israelis have slaughtered. So all of this is just, it's just absolutely insane that two years into this, we all know that you're committing genocide. The only people who won't accept that is a genocide are Israelis.

And you know what? I think that you know it's a genocide, Jonathan. I think you just support it. You want the genocide. Abby, let me just jump in there. On this, Abby, on this issue of genocide, you are aware that no country has ever been found guilty of actual genocide, are you? What point is this question? That even in Rwanda, what is the point of that question? We know what every... It was determined that the legal threshold for a genocide was not met. Every single genocide scholar, even though...

Okay, so... So my point is that... You're looking at Gossett today and you're saying that. You've agreed that it's a genocide, Pierce. No, I've never agreed that. I've said that I believe what has been going on. Okay, so you've... Okay, sure.

No, no, because simply for the reason I've just stated, there has never been a legally determined genocide declared anywhere in the world. Okay, let's get them to court. Let's go to court. court with Israel. Let's see the evidence. That's what I think would be sensible, right? I think it would be sensible to do that and actually get a legal ruling about whether it

constitutes genocide. I believe the Israeli government. I would be uncomfortable that, by the way. And Jonathan and I have discussed this. I just think that it gets thrown around all the time and people get attacked for not saying I get stopped by people on the street, call it a genocide. To me, what has gone on has become an increasingly massive. disproportionate response to the terror attack two years ago.

92% civilians killed. 92% civilians have been killed, peers. We don't know the... Well, again, we don't know the exact numbers. The numbers that I've read are that approaching 25 to 30,000 of the 60 or so thousand who've been killed are Hamas. But here's my point about that. We don't actually know because actually the refusal by the Israeli government, and Jonathan,

I know agrees with me on this point. The refusal to allow international journalists into Gaza to verify this stuff is one of the biggest problems of this war. We just don't know what these numbers are. And it's an ongoing running sore that journalists can't do their job and get to the truth. But Jonathan, you know, on this... Pierce, I think we should address something. You know, on the topic of numbers and, you know, these big, important, historically loaded terms like genocide, like apartheid, like famine, Let's revisit, and I think that there's people who have been claiming and saying that there's famine in Gaza.

Famine was declared by the IPC, I believe, on August 22nd. Now, a friend of mine has done the numbers on it, and I think it's important to be specific here, because there are definitions, and when you say famine, that means something. When a UN organization claims that there's famine somewhere, that's supposed to be backed up by data and by reality. Now, according to the numbers and statistics and the globally accustomed numbers of the IPC, which they follow, they issued a declaration that on August 22nd, there's famine in certain parts of Gaza. By their own numbers of level four and five, emergency in famine, there should have been 9,500 dead Palestinians by malnutrition, not natural deaths, not combat, not pre-execision.

existing conditions, 9,500 dead Palestinians since August 22nd. You know how many there really have been? According to Hamas numbers, 191. That's 98% off. Now, I challenge you and I challenge everybody who have been screaming and were part of the starvation campaign and the famine, all of the other nonsense that we heard with UN Regalia attached to it. At the end of the day, it's a fake, its lies, it is not supported by reality. It is, it makes believe, and it is propaganda against Israel, that useful idiots who have no bearing on the situation on the ground are parroting just because it is a weapon against Israel.

It is untrue, it is not factual. Hang on, hang on, hang on, but Jonathan, you wouldn't dispute that there was a near three-month blockade of substantial amounts of food and aid. I mean, that was indisputable. That happened. There were indeed months where not a lot was coming in, yes. But that's true.

But the important part appears, but the important part is what was the result? The important part is, okay, that was done by Israel and it was said by Israeli leadership. It was challenged by the defense establishment, and there were a lot of internal discussions. But at the end of the day, when UN-affiliated organizations declared famine, and every journalist, editor, media personality, and talking heads repeated that as if that was gospel. Nobody looks at the numbers. And even today, a month and a half after that,

is anybody held accountable for these libaleous, false, grotesque claims? Isn't it supposed to mean something when you say that... Why do we agree? So why do we... Obviously, I will come to you. So why do we agree? Rather like with genocide, right, I have believed... that the rhetoric coming out of Smodrich and Ben-Givir in particular

has made it clear there's been a policy by large sections of this government of ethnic cleansing. They would like to see all the Palestinians gone from Gaza and preferably the West Bank too. Thankfully, in this new plan, that is no longer apparently something that will be sustained by the American government, which means it probably won't happen. But let's not pretend they weren't talking about that openly.

And in relation to famine, okay, let's just say there was a deliberate policy for nearly 12 weeks of Starvation. Palestinians and that some of them starved to death. I mean, you know, there wasn't a policy of starving Palestinians, because there was a policy of not providing the enemy. In other words, these words in a way. You've spoken about this. We have spoken about this.

We have. Yeah, but you've addressed this, really, and we've spoken about it in the past. There was indeed an Israeli policy. By the way, I reject and I criticize and I do not accept the statements made by Smodrich and Ben-Vir. I think that they are disgusting. I think that they are not representative of Israel. I think that they are fringe.

I know we've had this discussion before. He's a minister and cabinet, et cetera. But I think that they do not represent the majority of Israel. And most importantly, they are not implemented on the ground by the IDF. And amongst the three of us, actually the one who knows what the IDF is doing and what the IDF isn't doing and what goes on in internal deliberations in Israel, I actually have access to that. And I can say, and that's one of the reasons why I am here. and I speak about it publicly is, yes, there have been horrible, unethical calls by Israeli ministers that should be condemned. I condemn it. Many, most Israelis do, and they do not reflect what

Israelis believe should be done. Is there a will for revenge against Palestinians for what they have been doing and what they did on October 7? Definitely, yes. But that is not what the IDF has been doing. The IDF has been fighting Hamas, and they have been applying military force, proportionately according to military necessity against military targets. That is what the IDF has been doing. And if we're honest, last sentence, yes, I know I'm speaking longly, last sentence, Israel is the only country that has been forced to provide food and fuel to its enemy. If you can give me any other example in modern history of a combating side that is forced to feed.

When you're illegally besieging a population, it's not the law. It's not the law. Let me feed your enemy. Yes, it is. Yes, it is. No, it is. No, it is not the law. It is not the law.

Hang on. Hang on. I let Jonathan, I let you have a good long stretch there. Jonathan, you've been talking about it. Abby, I haven't responded at all. Just to be clear. Okay, of course, because you've just been droning on and on

with the most outrageous propaganda possible, basically saying, oh, they say that this many kids died of starvation, but really, that's a lie. We've seen the photos, Jonathan. It's skin and bones. It's like concentration camp victims coming out of the Holocaust. Do you know that we see this? I know that Israel's like to control the narrative with the billions of dollars with Hasbro

propaganda, but we see the photos of starving children. We see doctors' testimonies saying baby formula was seized out of their bags. Baby formula. Why are you punishing babies? We know what the situation on the ground, peanut butter, was told to doctors that it was a luxury and stolen out of their bags, Jonathan. For the last two years, we've been told, not even talking about the siege before where calories were counted, given to Palestinians before October 7th,

but just since October 7th, we've been told that there's no siege, there's no famine, that aid is not being prevented from being delivered, right? Well, we just saw an entire naval fleet blockade, committed an act of piracy and kidnapping of 500 activists illegally in international waters

that were trying to bring baby formula and food to starving Palestinians. We've seen a mercenary force unload a barrage of bullets and kill more Palestinians begging for bread than civilians died on October 7th. So while people like you, these hand-picked spokespeople with American or Swedish accents come and speak to Western audiences and placate us and tell us lies,

we know what Israeli society thinks and believes, Jonathan. We see the news. I see Israeli Channel 12. I see the IDF reports. Of course I do. I see them coming out saying, guess what? Everyone left in Gaza City, the 250,000.

people left are going to be treated as terrorists and killed. Jonathan, I just let you speak forever. Jonathan, Jonathan, Jonathan, I mean, you keep you keep saying Jonathan, let me finish. Jonathan, let me finish. Jonathan, let me finish. So I just stop saying my name and talking, or I will be remembered no differently than the officers of the Third Reich. You will be, you will be no, you will be remembered no differently than the officers of the Third Reich. You will be a little bit better than that. I know you rehearse that line. Oh, come on, man. I'm sure you rehearse that line, but it's really pitiful.

Come on, you can do better. You're a smart woman. You can do better. You've written books. You've narrated movies. You could do better. And I'm a bit insulted that that is what you've come up with against me. Really?

Well, what's your response to the rest of what I said, Jonathan? So you don't want to be compared to a Nazi officer. I'm glad to tell you. So what's the response to the fact? In the beginning. Abby, Abby, Abby, let me just jump in there. I mean, you're so out of bounds. Hang on, Jonathan.

Hang on, Jonathan. Abby, out of interest, why would you think that anybody watching this, when they hear you tell a. Jewish man that he's basically a Nazi who were responsible. The ground sound of a Holocaust survivor, by the way, whose grandfather's family was murdered. That is a winning point to me. Why would you not think in that moment a lot of viewers go, what the hell are you talking about? Why would you be so offensive?

70. Well, it's not offensive at all. It's not offensive at all. If you want to not be compared to Nazis, stop acting like Nazis. It's very simple. It's very simple. Stop doing what Nazis did and stop treating the Palestinians. Like Jews in concentration camps, Jonathan.

Oh, cow, you are in your little eco bubble. You're so, I think you're consumed by hatred. No, you are, my friend. The world has woken up, my friend, the world has woken up. No one believes your lies anymore. You're pathetic, and I don't think that we're friends. I don't think that we're friends. You're an absolutely pathetic propagandist and no one believes you.

No one believes you. No one believes you. Israel's on a shelf life, my friend. Zionism has a shop life. you, why is Hamas, why does Hamas have your legitimacy, legitimacy in your eyes? Why should Hamas even hold weapons? And you fumbled and stumbled and you couldn't bring yourself to say, well, actually, no, Hamas shouldn't have weapons because they're bloody highness terrorists. That's the response that I would, you know, make sense for a person like you to say.

But you couldn't bring yourself to say it. Israel should be demilitarized with them. Of course I'm not going to say it. their resistance is legitimate. You believe, I'm sure, that Israel is very annoying and that we shouldn't exist where we are. I believe in the law. No, you don't believe in the law. You don't believe in the law. You believe in the law. You believe that we don't have a right to exist in our homeland. I've seen your movies. I've read some parts of your books. I've seen what you've done in Gaza. You've been propagating for Hamas. Israel should follow the law. is very simple. The solution is to follow the law. You couldn't even bring yourself to say,

how much you don't have weapons? Everyone should follow the law. I've got to leave you there. Everyone should follow the law. We've run out of time. I thank you both very much. Thank you. Pierce Morgan Unsencent is proudly independent.

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