Piers Morgan Uncensored - “They Want to Commit Genocide in Darkness!” Piers Morgan vs Palestinian Ambassador Husam Zomlot

Episode Date: June 5, 2025

Piers Morgan believes Israel had every right to start the war in Gaza, but what the IDF is now doing is deeply wrong - and he wants to know why won’t they let journalists in. The facts in Gaza are hard to come by, but we have enough evidence from the medics, volunteers, footage and testimony to understand that one of the world’s most advanced militaries is inflicting death and suffering on an inhuman scale.  Piers’ recent interviews in which he grilled Israeli ambassador to the UK Tzipi Hotovely and pro-Israel lawyer Natasha Hausdorff have gone viral - and he’ll  continue to hold people on all sides to account. So joining him today is Palestinian ambassador to the UK, Husam Zomlot. Piers Morgan Uncensored is proudly independent and supported by: Beam: Visit https://shopbeam.com/PIERS and use code PIERS to get our exclusive discount of up to 30% off. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

If journalists will be allowed them, if the UN is allowed them, they will be finding out much more than what we already know. And what we already know is horrific. What we saw on October 7th was not resistance. That was a mass terror attack. We the Palestinian people must always, always return the moral high grounds. Let me jump in there. When you say you have a functioning government,

there's clearly no functioning government in Gaza right now. Myself, I was born in Rafah. Raffa. A new city in Gaza. It's my city. It's Ghana. Decimated. The only hope I have now is that my children are not going to face the same faith.

You talk about a concern for your children. I get that. But as part of that, how do you guarantee to Israelis? They're not going to wake up one day again and have 3,000 people pouring over, trying to kill everybody with them get their hands up. 83% of a society wants to annihilate another society. The genocidal genes in Israel is very scary for them before us. For a long time, I was berated for spouting Israeli talking points

and, in my view, ridiculously accused of being Islamophobic. At the moment, I'm being berated to spouting Hamas talking points and equally ridiculously accused of being anti-Semitic. Fanatics on both sides of this war try to smear their critics as bigots and use phrases like propaganda and talking points to discredit what they say. That's why it's so important to give a firm grip on facts and your own sense of what is right and wrong.

My view is that Israel had every right to start this war after the events of October the 7th. But what the IDF is now doing has crossed a line and has gone too far is wrong and has to stop. The facts in Gaza are hard to come by. As the BBC's Jeremy Bowen said, Israel won't let him or anybody else in because they probably want to hide what they're doing.

We have enough evidence from the medics, the volunteers, the footage and testimony, to understand that one of the world's most advanced militaries is inflicting death and suffering on an inhuman scale. If that's a Hamas talking point, ask yourself why so many of Israel's allies, two former Israeli prime ministers, and many of Israel's staunchy supporters, are now using it. Do we hold Israeli officials to a higher standard than Hamas? Well, yes, of course we do.

Otherwise, what was the point of the war? It was a conflict waged against killing with impunity, against civilian suffering, and against the hateful disregard for human life. I will continue to hold people on all sides to account, as you'll see in a moment. But the uncomfortable truth right now is that the biggest driver of anti-Israel propaganda is the Israel government itself. Well, join me now in the studio is Hussein Zomlitt. He's the Palestinian ambassador to the UK. I've been a regular guest on Uncensor. Welcome back to you, Ambassador.

First of all, I don't know if you saw it, but I interviewed your counterpart, the UK ambassador for Israel. And I was stunned by some of her responses in that interview. Did you see it and what was your reaction? I have to say I saw some of it. I could not stomach to see the whole of it. So I had my team transcripting the whole interview and I did read it. Nothing knew about an Israeli ambassador parotting the same talking points for a lot of long, long, long time, complete and utter game of deceit, lies trying to deflate, always blaming

the victims, never taking responsibility, always finding an excuse, and in the end always being caught out like you did. But what was new about that interview was your ability, Pierce, to actually dig and dig and dig and make sure that they are called out. And they were. She was called out. And for that, I must acknowledge, Pierce, the journey you have gone through. It is not a journey of taking sides, but a journey to discover the truth. And I can see that you have arrived at the truth. As a journalist, this is the profession of portraying finding.

Look, as I've made clear, I don't want to take sides. It's not the job of a journalist to take sides in anything. It's the job of a journalist to challenge all the people, in authority, in a war or whatever it may be, and to do so fairly and firmly, and to get, as you say, to the truth. We live in a world where a lot of people talk about my truth, as if somehow there's a variant of truth.

But truth is based on fact. One of my biggest issues with the Israeli ambassador to the UK and with the Nih TNiyahou government now, it's this ongoing refusal to allow international journalists into Gaza. What it's allowing them to do is respond to absolutely every incident by saying there's no evidence has happened or we're ordering an investigation, which they conduct themselves. There's no independent way of verifying these things in a way that would be in a normal war zone. Just first of all, what is your reaction to that, to the fact that journalists simply aren't allowed in? It's very clear.

Israel knows if journalists will be allowed them. if the UN is allowed in, if the international institutions will be in, they will be finding out much more than what we already know, and what we already know is horrific. And they know they have something to hide. That's why they are preventing you. Really, they care about your safety? Are they kidding me?

Are they kidding you? This is silly and ridiculous. They want to commit the genocide in darkness. But guess what? The heroism of our journalists. They killed more than 180 of them. The heroism of our people, including children, for the first time in history, documenting their own execution, Pierce, and conveying it to the world.

And unlucky the Israelis, there is social media now. Unlucky the Israelis, people now in Manchester or Dundee or in Cardiff can find out on their screens half an hour after the incident happens in Gaza. Unlucky them that the world now realized, like never before, the Pariah State, Israel is. And unlucky also that finally the mainstream media is pushing back. It took a long time, it took you some time. It took you some time. Finally, they are. As you know, because we've done several interviews since this war started. As you know, I had an absolute conviction, which remains the case, that Israel, after October the 7th, given the scale of what happened that day,

and the fact that the Hamas official spokesman said on camera, we're going to keep trying to do the thing again and again. And the moment I saw that, I didn't just think that Israel had a right to respond and to defend itself. It had a duty to its people, as any other country in the world would have. And I still believe that. What I believe now is that, and this was particularly exacerbated by what I saw from Smodrich, the finance minister last week, is that the goals of this Israeli government have significantly changed. It's gone from different. defending their people against further attacks to now clearing out all the Palestinians. He couldn't have been clearer.

And to me, when I heard him say that, I felt, I didn't feel duped. I didn't feel anything. He's a very right-wing member of a very right-wing cabinet there. But I felt like he was lifting the veil of perhaps the bigger picture intention of a number of people in that government from day one. and that is to get the Palestinians out of Gaza and if they can out of the West Bank. Pierce, from day one, we said very clearly that we wholeheartedly reject the targeting of civilians. But we added from all sides. We have civilians.

Our civilians have been killed all along for 77 years and not only killed. Oppressed, rounded without trial or charge, their land being stolen, their house. houses being demolished, they live under complete apartheid regime as per international reports and assessments, whereby you are not born unless Israel agrees, you are not dead unless Israel issues your death certificate, you cannot love or marry unless Israel agrees, complete and utter system of segregation whereby you are treated under martial law, why an Israeli illegal settler from Brooklyn will come and be under the Israeli civil law. What we try to say is balance it here. And the 7th of October was one day in the history of the conflict,

but the proceeding 400 days has really dented our humanity. And the previous 77 years has also been as atrocious on the Palestinian people. What we try to do and say at that moment, yes, what happened on the 7th of October should be subjected to also Palestinian-Palestin-Palestin discussion. We also need to discuss. We realize that a people under occupation, as per international law, it is our right to resist via military arms. Military means, I mean armed resistance. International law gives you that option, of course, targeting only military. Beam's creatine is America's number one, and it's made by a company founded on values like hard work and delivering real results.

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But even that. Hang on one second. What we saw on October 7th was not resistance. That was a mass terror attack on civilian population. And any targeting of civilian? Let's be clear about that. 3,000 Hamas terrorists came over the border in wave after wave and they attacked and murdered

and did other terrible things to as many civilians as they could get their hands on. They kidnap babies. I hear you. Holocaust survivors. They murdered hundreds of people in a music festival. In other words, nothing that they did that they can be categorized as legitimate resistance or military action. Do you agree? I hear you, but you need to hear me. Would you agree with me? That's the 7th of October. Yeah, but you agree with me.

Targeting civilians is absolutely utterly rejected. And we the Palestinian people must always, always return the moral high grounds. Our issue, the heart of our cause, is that we as civilians, defenseless, have been targeted for 100 years, so we better not do it ourselves. And we better stick to the one thing that we're calling for, which is international law. But on the 6th of October, Pierce, the UN and other international organizations declared it was the deadliest year for Palestinian children in the West Bank, not even in Gaza. You didn't bring me here.

The world was not all over the place to discuss the murder of Palestinian children in the West Bank. I accept that. That is our issue. That's number one. I accept that. That is our issue. And since the seven years. of October, you have, you've been wanting me to condemn.

We have no issues with condemnation. We have been doing that all along. But the Israeli ambassador was sitting here, Pierce, last week. And all that conversation, still, you did not ask her to condemn. So what is it about Palestinians? Do you, all the mainstream media, see Israeli Jewish life to be more of value than Palestinian lives? That's a question.

And that's why I, as a representative of the Palestinian people, people, my people. I refuse wholeheartedly that our children is less of a human being than theirs. I agree. And I tell you, one Palestinian child for us, one Palestinian child for us is worth the world. I agree. I agree. And I would go further and I would say that not only is, of course, a Palestinian child worth as much as any child in the world, but actually you should be entitled. Palestinians, all Palestinians, should be entitled. to the same human rights as me or Israelis or anybody else. And that has been a fundamental problem.

We are not. You're not. We are not. What do you do? And you keep saying, I don't know. No, no. You are a prominent person. I've said, I don't know.

What do we do? I've said, I've said, I believe what's happened is a form of occupation. However, let me turn that slightly. Because since 2005-6, Hamas has been right. running Gaza. And it's had billions of dollars come in, a lot of it with the tacit encouragement of Benjamin Netanyahu who wanted to play divide and rule between Hamas and the Palestinian authority. That's no great secret. Latryahu, you mean?

Yeah, and that backfired. And you are aware that Natanthryahu allowed for millions of dollars. Yes, I just said that. And you know why he did that? Because he wanted to divide and rule the two Palestinian camps, and he thought that was the best way of making Israel safer. It turned out to be a catastrophic error of judgment on his part, for which he will one day be held accountable.

Can I correct that? It was not just an error of judgment. It was his instinct and his DNA. Yes, I agree. It's not just a judgment. But I agree with it. The DNA of him and his clique is the ethnic cleansing. And for them, the prevention of the Palestinian national government

of returning to Gaza, the continuation of Hamas and funding of Hamas, was a way of advancing that strategy of blocking a Palestinian state and then committing the annihilation and the extermination they are doing right now. I agree that that has been his, I believe, Netanyahu's view the whole time. That's why he encouraged this. However, let me throw it back at you now. Hamas took that money and what do they do with it? They seem to have built a highly sophisticated, very large tunnel system

which when they unleashed their terror attacks on October the 7th, they, Hamas, were able to hide safely in there as the population in Gaza, innocent women, children, others, grandparents, were left to be the targets of Israel's retribution for those attacks on their people. And they knew when they launched the October 7th attacks exactly what was going to come back. They took refuge safely in the tunnels.

They were okay. They left their people to be killed. Now, I'm not wrong, am I? That's why I started the conversation about a Palestinian-Palestinian national conversation, revision. When I started talking about international law and armed resistance, we Palestinians have come to the conclusion now

that arms resistance is right, not an obligation. And given the situation, it is not the most effective way of gaining our rights, not even against the military establishment. Given the direct tacit support of the U.S., as you know, and the rest of the West, we are not just fighting the Israeli military. So perhaps we need to collectively think about the power of mass nonviolent movement. We tried it in the first intifada, and it was very draining morally, politically, militarily, economically to Israel, as you remember, and you have read in the war. the past. We need to apply and utilize this unprecedented international public opinion support for us. I just came back from Westminster School. I had just left a meeting with a senior British official in 10 Downing Street. I left and I saw this huge red line surrounding the British Parliament.

I approached and there were thousands upon thousands of British people holding this red line, telling their government, if you are not showing a red line for Israel, we are showing a red line for you and for Israel, for the government and for Israel. And I went in and I saw the depth of support. And this has become, after almost 20 months, the largest and the longest British solidarity movement in the history of this country. Actually, you know what it reminds me of?

And Shabu, I respect. I can remember one larger one, because I was ever since the Daily Mirror at the time. And it was the marching through London of nearly two million people against the Iraq. which I opposed when I was the editor. So it reminded me. But that movement went on for a few months.

This is going for almost two years. Do you think the UK, is the UK government doing enough, in your opinion, to curb what Netanyahu is doing? No, the British people are doing a lot and the pressure is on them. And the UK government by far is not doing enough. What would you like them to do? Number one, arms embargo. This is a legal obligation.

Already in January last year, a year and a half almost, The ICJ said it is plausible that Israel is committing genocide and therefore we the judges of the world. This is the courts, the highest world court. We the judges of the world decided to place Israel on trial for genocide. Since then, the conversation should have been over. Few months later, the same court came up with a verdict about Israel's presence in the occupied territory, saying it's unlawful. It must end in the shortest period.

and the General Assembly relying on that said in one year time. The conversation about what is the legal responsibility. Legal before political of the UK is clear. Full arms embargo. Suspension not of trade talks, but of trade itself, until Israel ends the genocide, until Israel abides by international law. Thirdly, the banning of all the illegal settlement products.

I mean, how on earth you describe them to be illegal war crimes and you are still importing them and showing them in UK shell? the banning of UK companies from profiting and operating in occupied territory. Is that too difficult to ask? And of course, and of course, the immediate recognition of the state of Palestine. This is a major thing. You know, this is not a gift or a favor. It's an inalienable right.

We are people ancient, rooted on our land. We have the territory very well defined by numerous international resolutions, and we have a functioning government. The question was never, why should the UK recognize? Hang on what's that. Let me jump in there. When you say you have a functioning government, there's clearly no functioning government in Gaza right now.

Hamas are ostensibly still the government, but they're not a functioning government. Do you accept, let me ask you a straight question. Do you accept that after October the 7th, Hamas can have no place in any future government in Gaza for the Palestinians after this war. Do you accept that? It's not just me. Hamas itself has accepted.

But do you agree that that cannot be allowed? Of course. And that's, you ask me about Hamas. I represent the state of Palestine. Yes, I know. And the people of Palestine. Hamas is a political group. And guess what?

We have more than 20 political groups. If you want the opinion of the state and the government of Palestine, Palestine need a government that represent the Palestinian people, represent the unity of our people, the unity of our geography. Gaza, the West Bank and East Jerusalem, and the unity of our political system. So far, our government, the existing government, is made of technocrats, not Fattah, not Hamas, not anybody.

The committee that we agreed with Egypt and other mediators to form, to care for Gaza, administer Gaza, for an interim period, was made of technocrats. And the proposition is no political. So this is, of course, we agree on this. This is not the conversation. And Natanyahu is saying this as a condition. knowingly that this has been done. He is not interested in ending the war.

Well, the other condition he keeps saying, and I completely agree with him, Hamasmas release the remaining hostages. Why have they not released them? And are you prepared right now to call for them to immediately release all remaining hostages? Do you think Natalia was interested in his hostages? Seriously, peers, they would have been home long ago. You know that. The US proposed a deal in January.

It included the release of all hostages. and the exchange of hostages. I've said it before, I say it again. Israel has taken thousands of Palestinian hostages. Without trial, without charge, 300 of them are children, for God's sake, which is illegal in international law. So of course we need to see our hostages being released as well.

But Netanyahu was not interested in the hostages. You know he has killed some of them. You know that. But if you, well, it's clear that. You know that. We know for a fact that some of the hostages were, killed by Israeli airstrikes. But let me ask you this.

When it comes to the hostages, even if you don't believe Netanyahu that it makes any difference, in other words, his bigger plan for Gaza is not related to the hostages. Even if you believe that, why not call his bluff?

Why not just demand and have every other Palestinian leader demand that Hamas release all remaining hostages tomorrow and call their bluff? Even if you don't, believe it will make any difference, why not do that? At least show the humanity you say that you're not getting from Israel. Let those remaining hostages go home. Today the Security Council,

the 10 non-permanent members proposed a Security Council resolution that includes the calling for two things. The immediate and permanent cessation of hostilities, cessation of the genocide, the mass murder, destruction, permanent ceasefire, and the release of all. all hostages. We go over that. You think Netanya will accept it? And read my lips, the US will veto this. They are not interested, peers.

This isn't about the hostages. Ask the families of the hostages. They are only taking all this as a pretext, including the hostages. They saw in that an opportunity to annihilate Gaza. Listen to me. Anna, my grandfather and father was born in a village, beautiful one, called Simpson. Simson. in what Israel has become, in 48 Palestine.

It was completely and utterly demolished, decimated Simpson. And they grew some trees, so we don't even relate to or discover where our homes was. My generation, that's my grandfather and father. Myself, I was born in Rafah, a huge city in Gaza, a city home to 172,000 people. I was born there, I lived there all of my life. It's where I love and I grew up. It's my city. It's gone.

Decimated. The only hope I have now is that my children are not going to face the same faith. This is Israel's DNA peers. Israel's DNA since it was established is to annihilate us wherever we are. So we left our original homes. We were unable, not allowed to return to our original homes and farms and towns. And even the place of refugee ship we took like Rafah is destroyed. My kids, I'm fearing now.

And I want to discuss with you the future, more than the past. The past is dreadful, and the present is more dreadful. We should spend some time discussing the future, discussing what kind of Palestine we're after, what kind of a state we are going to build? What is the relationship between this state and all of its neighbors and the rest of the world? But my biggest fear now is that my three children will face the same faith. They will also go, perhaps live in a West Bank city, say Janine. or Toul Karim or al-Khalil,

and they will be faced with the same faith. Three generations on. That city will be destroyed again, decimated again, and guess what? I hear you. It is happening in the West Bank. I hear you. But let me throw...

50,000 people have been displaced from Janine and Tul-Kirm. It's happening. And I think... Not just in Gaza. By the way... You're discussing with me, Hamas. No, no. Hamas is not in the West Bank.

I know. I'm about to tell you that I think the announcement only last week of the expansion of 22 new settlements in the West Bank was completely outraged. and shameful and illegal, and Israel should not be doing this. I completely concurred. It's shameful, it's illegal, it's immoral, it's criminal,

but it's deliberate. And the question is what? Of course it's a liberal, but let me throw this back at you. You talk about a concern for your children. I get that. You don't want them to have to go through what you've been through in your family and the rest of it.

But Israelis who endured October the 7th, they don't want to have to have to, to go through anything like that again. And I get that too. I understand that Israeli people have been living in terror since October the 7th, traumatized genuinely. Okay.

In a way that I know many Palestinians have been traumatized by the bombardment has come back. Okay, I hear you. But what do you say to them? Okay. How do you guarantee, as part of a new state of Palestine, which I agree with, I think there should be a two-state solution. But as part of that, how do you guarantee to Israelis?

they're not going to wake up one day again and have 3,000 people pouring over trying to kill everybody and get their hands on. Number one, they have gone through one day that was difficult for all of them, traumatic. They've been through many days. Let them think of the Palestinian people. Let them think, let them feel,

let them sympathize, let them see themselves as fathers and mothers and sisters and siblings, let them see themselves as neighbor, not just as occupiers and colonizers and supremacists. That's number one. Number two, revenge. does not get you anyone. Even the strongest supporter of Israel,

a self-aclaimed Zionist, that is President Biden himself, said just a day after the 7th of October on the 8th of October. He said to Netanyahu publicly, and he said it on TV, don't repeat our mistake on September 11th. Don't go after your rage.

Don't go for revenge. And look what Natanahu and Israel did. They completely went beyond what America did in Iraq. They went for genocide, annihilation, extermination, defeating the Palestinian people's quest. The aid mechanism they are sitting up there is a death trap only primarily to defeat our spirit. Now, the Israeli public, I tell them what kind of future you want. And this isn't about Natania. I was reading Ha'Aris only a couple of days ago, two days ago. There was an

opinion poll that shocked the core of me, shocked everyone. Another one you're talking about. Send, sent shockwaves in my bow. The majority of people in Israel think that the Palestinians should be removed from Gaza. Is that the one? Yes. I was shocked. 83% of a society wants to annihilate another society. The genocidal genes in Israel is very scary for them before us, for them before us.

And in the same poll, more than half of the Israeli people want to get rid of non-Jewish citizens of the state of Israel. Christians and Muslims in Israel. What kind of a society? When people talk about Netanyahu, Netanyahu, Netanyahu, Netanyahu is the product of a society that has completely and utterly shifted not only to the right, but to the extreme, extreme fanatical. I also think Netanyahu is acting, I think, now completely in self-interest. So the Israeli society, this is the last.

Think of us not just as threats. We are the biggest opportunity. We are a very special people, very well educated. You know that we have almost zero illiteracy rate? You know Gaza has one of the highest education rates? Do you know that we have the highest PhD per capita graduates worldwide? Do you know how proud I am as a Palestinian? But you know what you had?

The problem? The problem? The people that were governing Gaza in Malawi. 20 years. They took billions of dollars which could have made the Palestinians lives so much better, could have definitely helped with all the dynamics of education and health and art and culture and all those things. And instead, instead, they spent the 20 years building a tunnel system and planning a massive terror attack, which they knew when they launched it was going to cause the deaths of tens of thousands of Palestinian civilians. And that's that. That's, that's. That's. That's. That's.

That's the problem. I hear you. But to the Israeli public, Palestine has its legitimate representation. And the Palestinian, the PLO, the PA, the state of Palestine has never left Gaza. Education was funded by us. Health was funded by us. So Gaza was not governed by a group. OK, there was a security issue in Gaza after what happened in 2007.

But Gaza was never, we never left Gaza for another group to govern. However, to the Israeli public again, think of the potential. The youngest population, most educated, most tech savvy. You know, in the West Bank now, our youth are producing half a billion every year. And half a billion is small, but in our situation, have a billion dollar. Given the restrictions, the dismal situation and the occupation and the restrictions that you know, this is a big, we have 200, 200 tech incubators and startups that are now linking to the biggest companies. Let me make it clear.

There's nothing. So, so. So, we've run out of time. I just, by the way, I'd like. you to come back again soon, I'd like to talk to you more about what the future would look like and genuinely would like to have that conversation with you, about what the future might look like at the end of all this, because I think that's a really important question for you and for other Palestinians to really wrestle with and work out what that future looks like.

I want a great future for Palestinians, especially for the young Palestinians. You've got such a young population. I want them to have all the rights that I have, genuinely. And And that's why I want this war to end. And I see at the moment no desire on the part of the Israelis to do anything that will bring it to an end or that doesn't involve, according to half of their cabinet, from what they're saying under their own mouths, the removal of Palestinians completely, which I think is a form of genocide. I've said that. I thank you for your time for coming in.

Please come back again. Let's keep this dialogue going. I want to be a force for good in this debate, as I think I've tried to be from the start of this war. I want to carry on that process. But what I'm seeing now from Israel has crossed my red line. And I've been saying that loudly. And if people who support Israel think that I am somehow anti-Semitic because of that, or I hate Jewish people or any of these ludicrous things,

I simply say to them what I said when it was the other way around, a few months into the war, when I was accused of exactly the same thing in reverse towards the Palestinian people, that I hated them, that was Islamophobic and so on, I wasn't. I wasn't then. I'm not now. I'm not anti-Semitic. I'm not anti-Israelis. I'm actually anti-this-Israel government and what they're currently doing. But it's also important, peers, to take responsibility. And all of you, because you are an influencer. You have a huge... I don't disagree. To take responsibility, how at the beginning it has been presented in a situation that did empower the fanatics in Tel Aviv. It did empower.

The too much focus on one incident... It did. People were hurt. I'm sorry. People were hurt. You have traveled a journey. You have traveled a journey. You are a very honorable man. It's important that we take responsibility. I don't disagree with it. Of mistakes we do. Yes. Okay. I don't disagree. Many mistakes has been committed by mainstream media. And this is a time when we see the dial is shifting. And it is important that we keep on not because it's too much. Because many are saying too much Palestinians have been killed. No, because it's wrong. Because if one Palestinian is killed, it is. is wrong, illegal and criminal, regardless of the numbers. So let's keep on that journey, my friend. Ambassador, it's good to see you. Thank you very much. Piers Morgan Unsensit is proudly independent. The only boss around here is me.

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