Piers Morgan Uncensored - “This Is a HORROR!” Alex Pretti Death Sparks ICE Frenzy | With Vincent Oshana

Episode Date: January 27, 2026

Within weeks of taking office, President Trump had sealed the southern border, in a show of rapid and effective leadership - but one year on, Republicans are increasingly struggling to defend him as American civilians are killed on the streets by ICE officers. Alex Pretti and Renee Good did not deserve to die - and protesters have been whipped into a frenzy by politicians who want them to feel like they’re under attack from the Gestapo. But branding civilian protesters as dangerous terrorists - and attempting to implausibly justify these deaths - is now having exactly the same effect. Piers Morgan discusses the crisis with PBD Podcast’s Angry Patriot, Vincent Oshana, host of BET News Marc Lamont Hill, host of Keeping It Real, Jillian Michaels and co-host of The News Agents, Lewis Goodall. Piers Morgan Uncensored is proudly independent and supported by: Cardiff: Get fast business funding without bank delays—apply in minutes with Cardiff and access up to $500,000 in same‑day funding at https://Cardiff.co/PIERS Oxford Natural: To watch their full stories, scan the QR code on your screen or visit https://oxfordnatural.com/piers/ to get 70% off your first order when you use code PIERS. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

To get in their faces, Pierce, and disrupt a legal federal duty. I don't do that. You know why, Pears? I'm not dumb. You don't do that. What we're seeing is protesters being demonized, people being criminalized, and innocent people being executed in the streets. This is a horror.

Everything that Mark said is factually false. Unlawful this. Unlawful that, Constitution, this. Give me a second. Pears. No one there, including Republicans, voted for what we are seeing. What I saw in Minnesota, Minneapolis, St. Paul, was the terrorizing. of ordinary Americans.

You're lying. You're lying. Could you let me finish? Have you been in Minnesota recently? Have you been in Minneapolis? Have you watched it? Because I have. No, why the hell would I want to go to Minnesota?

Right, okay, because you believe what you want to believe. How do we move forward here? That's what I want to focus on is this is awful. Everybody's heart is breaking for a host of different reasons. Let's just in with a simple question. Should Alex Preti have been sharp? Within weeks of taking office, President Trump had sealed the southern border. It was rapid and effective leadership, ending,

a ludicrous open-door policy which even the Democrats have given up trying to defend. Now one year on, Republicans are increasingly struggling to defend immigration action under Trump. A majority of Americans very clearly wanted tougher border enforcement. They also very clearly backed a candidate who promised mass deportations for undocumented criminals. But did they really vote for the detention of five-year-old preschoolers, as we saw last week? Did they really vote for the killing of American civilians by law enforcement officers? Thirty-seven-year-old intensive care nurse Alex Preti was killed at a protest this weekend. Well, I feel the same way about this as I did about René Good, who was also killed by protesting

against ICE in Minneapolis. You can debate the details, and I'm sure we will. But the crux of the matter is that Alex Pruddy was not a domestic terrorist, and he didn't deserve to die. The ICE agents are having a tough time, that much is clear. Protesters have been whipped into a frenzy by politicians who want them to feel like they're under attack from a Gestapo, but branding civilian protesters as dangerous terrorists. and attempting to implausibly justify these deaths is now having the exact same effect.

President Trump says the administration is reviewing everything. He spoke to Governor Tim Walts and, surprisingly, says they're on a similar wavelength. Trump will be well aware that if it carries on like this, a very bad situation, is only going to get a lot worse. To debate, I'm joined by Vincent O'Shanna, PBD Podcasts Angry Patriot, Martin Mon Hill, host of Bet News, Lewis Goodall, the broadcaster and co-host of the news agents, and Gillian Michaels, the host of keeping it real. Welcome to all of you.

Mark Lamont Hill, let me start with you. Like all of these things, none of this is easy. It's complex. A lot of Americans believe that what Trump's done on the border is good, closing it down after the very poorest border that we saw under Biden, with millions coming in illegally. That doesn't suit anyone's interests. A lot of people believe that if you're in America,

already undocumented, illegally, and you commit another crime, you should be deported. That seems to be general consensus. The flashpoint is about people who may have built their lives in America, but came in illegally, you may have been there a number of years, contributed to society, brought up kids and so on. And secondary to that flashpoint is ICE going around urban cities and raiding people's homes, raiding people's workplaces, and getting into now what seems to be constant running battles with protesters,

which are leading to people being shot dead. And, you know, I can tell you, looking at this from afar in the UK, where I am at the moment, it's pretty horrifying. What is happening here? I think you've used the perfect word. And welcome back, Pierce. It's really good to see you in good health. Thank you.

This idea of horror in it being horrified. I think is right and exact. The government is essentially waging war, not just on people who are deemed to be unlawfully here, which is an entirely different conversation that we can have because it's far more complex than just saying Americans don't want them here. I don't think that's true, and I don't think that that's the full story, even if it were. But you're seeing citizens being waged war upon. We're watching protesters being deemed enemy of the states.

We're watching unlawful raids at homes and in workplaces. We are seeing an assault on the Constitution. And one of the things that will be seen in court very soon is whether this has been such a judicial or such an overreach that constitutes a violation of the 10th Amendment right of Minnesota's right to state sovereignty. We'll find that out. But regardless, this is not the solution. This is not the way to solve whatever problem we imagine because what we're seeing is protesters being demonized, people being criminalized, and innocent people being executed in the streets. This is a horror. Vinnie Ashana, great to see you.

I've never seen you looking so smart, which may suggest you're viewing this with a new gravity. So first of all, what's the tie all about? I've never seen her in a sense with a tie. I just felt, peers, I had to step up my game. You're always professional, so I want to be professional. And I want to say, A, thank you, Pierce, for always having me on. And number two, that you're healthy and you're a strong man, you'll be back.

Pierce, I want to say one thing to you. Do you know what I don't? By the way, everything that Mark said is factually false. Unlawful this. Unlawful that, Constitution, this. Give me a second. Pears. Do you know what I do, Pears?

I carry a 9mm Hellcat Springfield gun. It's on me right now. Okay? I protect myself. I protect people that are around me. I was in the military. I was on the Air Force shooting team. I'm that guy, Pierce.

Do you want to know what I don't do? I don't take this gun and go to a federal agent's ICE event. which he was on signal, this guy, Alex, purposeful, on signal, it's all coordinated to get in their faces, Pierce, and disrupt a legal, federal duty. I don't do that. You know why, Pierce?

I'm not dumb. You don't do that. And by the way, Pierce, the gun that he had, little fun fact, is a Sig Sauer P320. All right, that gun, there's a bunch of lawsuits for a six hour. That gun goes off just unintentionally.

The firing pin goes off. Right. But the thing about, yeah. For what I saw. But Vinny, on that point, Vinny, I've seen that report about that girl. We don't know that it discharged itself. There's no evidence that it did at the moment. What we do know from that video.

Well, hang on, hang on. What I'm saying is Pierce? But hang on. Here's my point. My point before you finish. My point about this is the guy, you know, I've had the complete opposite argument about these situations going back 20 years in America, which is that, you know, I agree with you. I don't think people should be armed of a teeth all the time going to be to do any things like this, right?

And yet this is the very argument used back at me, which is that actually, yes, he had a perfect legal right to carry that weapon and to carry his ammunition. At no stage in any of the videos have I seen him as he'd been brandishing that weapon or trying to shoot anybody or pulling that weapon or anything like that. In fact, the opposite, what we see

is a pack of eight ICE officers descend on him and one of them very clearly reached down and take this guy's weapon out of his holster on his waist and take it away. And he is then shot with the first shot a second after that when they know he's unarmed. So every part of this fails. But so does the logic, I have to say, to me,

there's an hypocrisy on the Conservative right, which is that I've always been told right to bear arms, Second Amendment. No one can interfere with that. Yet when this guy does it, suddenly this is wrong. I don't remember that being the way the Kyle Rittenhouse debate was framed,

right? I didn't see people on the conservative right then saying that. They said the opposite. That's right. Peers, I'm not, hold on. You're talking about a military veteran pro-second amendment. I'm not saying any of that. But if you're going to go there

and disrupt and get into effect, because peers, all of you are watching this slowed down, nice video, it's happening in second in real time. And my point about the gun is, Pierce, my opinion, when they disarmed him, he doesn't know the gun is gone. It goes off. He's still reaching for the magazines, which he thinks are a gun. But, let me, Pierce, here's the point. Why is this all happening in Minnesota? Can we stop? In Texas, Texas, there's 10 times more illegal deportations. You don't hear none

of this, peers, none of this. You know why it's in Minnesota, peers? Because Tim Walls, mayor, or Fry, Ilhan Omar are pushing for people to get in their faces and do this type of stuff. Under Obama, you didn't hear any of it, okay? And he deported way more people than Trump. He's kicking Trump's butt in deportation.

But I want to know something to appear. It's funny how all these leftists, all these Democrats, like last week when it was a five-year-old kid, oh my God, he was detained. No, no. His illegal father ran away and abandoned him. All right? Nobody here even knows that freaking kid's name. The mother didn't want

take him. I'm just curious to everybody on the panel who's here. Does anybody know who this is? Mark, Lewis, anybody? This is Ivory Smith, seven years old. She was in her mother's car, and a freaking drunk driver illegal hit her and killed her, okay? Do you know who this is? You guys want to talk about Alex being a nurse?

This is Lake and Riley. She was jogging in school, and guess what happened? A guy raped her, tried to rape her. She fought back for 11 minutes, 11 minutes, and then he crushed her head. Why wasn't she on the news? Why didn't you hear about her? And lastly, you know what? Put them all in news.

I think all of them are. No, I'm curious. I think they were. She was strangled. Wait. But, Whitney, they were on the news. They were on the news. She was strangled.

They were on my news. Okay. And her throat was slit. And she was raped by two illegals. All you guys care about is headlines, peers. You know why? Because Democrats are hemorrhaging votes. At the end of the day, this is all votes.

Why else do you want illegals? You're fighting so bad to have them in here to count on the census so that Democrats could keep power, peers. Plain and simple. You know, the irony, the irony, Vinny. That you guys care. Vinny. Get out of here. The irony is the, the irony is that the, the irony is the polls at the moment suggest

what's hemorrhaging votes is the activities of ice. And in particular, where it's leading to these deadly encounters. That is hemorrhaging support for the Trump administration. And we're only a few months away now from the midterm. Really? He's the most popular. I think. Peers. Well, he's the most popular.

I think it is. The poll came out last week. He's popular. Henry Anton just came out with the poll that Democrats are having the horrible, horrible percentage, and it's been the lowest of support. Pears, this is all emotion. And what I'm telling you is all the same thing happened for Obama. And you know why, Pierce, you're across the pond and you're seeing it?

Because you're watching CNN, you're watching MSNBC, and that's their agenda. Plain and simple. I just, peers, actually, it's useful idiots. Vinnie, Vinny, Vinny, I'm actually, I'm actually, I watch a lot of. Fox News and I watch a lot of the PBD. I watch a lot of PBD with a guy called the Angry Patriot. So you have no idea what I'm consuming you.

By the way, since I broke my hip, I have nothing else to do but watch you. So don't mischaracterize me. I do watch the others too because I like to watch what they're all saying. But I appear on Fox all the time, as you know, I don't take a side in this. I just want to try and get to reality.

Small businesses drive our economy, but securing capital as a constant struggle. Of this 36 million small businesses in the United States, over 70% report needing additional capital at least once per year. Big banks are bearing owners in mountains of paperwork for months. If you want competitive bank rates without all those frustrating bank delays, visit our sponsor, Cardiff.com slash peers, up to $500,000 in funding. Cardiff's application takes less than five minutes and has no impact on your personal credit. Approvals happen in minutes. Banks try to lock out small businesses.

Cardiff has the key. Big banks may not want to approve your business loans, but Cardiff does. If you've been in business for at least a year and you're pulling in $20,000 a month in revenue, applying now for up to $500,000 in the same-day business funding at Cardiff.co slash peers. Again, that's Cardiff.

Dotco slash peers. Real growth, vast funding. Lewis Goodall, welcome. back to Unsenstein said, one of the really, like, weird things about these two shootings in particular is that we're all watching them on videotape. So we can all see from multiple angles what's happened. And yes, we should wait for the investigation. Yes, there might be new things that emerge which change perhaps the narrative. But I know what I saw were René good, and I know what I saw with this latest incident too. And there is no amount of person in authority

anywhere in the world who's going to convince me that what I saw was a justified murder or a justified killing. That's not called the word murder. Let's wait and see where the investigation takes us. But a justified killing. It just seems to me ridiculous overreach probably by ICE agents

who are not trained properly in crowd control of this nature because the Minnesota police aren't getting involved. And that is a whole different area about federal, the state and how they deploy the law enforcement and about the politics of a blue state and a red administration and so on. But you know, you're a fellow Brit like me. When we try and get into anything gun-related in America, it's a hot potato.

They remind us they kicked us out of America with guns. I get it. It's an issue for America to talk about. We also, when it comes to immigration, we squeal about 40, 50,000 people coming over our southern border when his estimated 10 million came over in four years under Biden. in a massively, massively larger number of people. And a lot of Republicans say to me, I think with merit,

that because Biden made the border so porous and that there may have been a political aspect of it because by doing so, he may have then had people in the country who might be more inclined to vote Democrat and as ever trying to ensure up support going forward. I don't know, but that's the theory. It makes some sense to me.

These are huge numbers we're talking about And something has to be done. And if ICE don't do what they're doing, then how do you actually identify and remove people who are there in America illegally, and particularly the ones who commit Heena's crimes? Well, something has to be done, Pierce, I would agree with you. And I would also agree that part of the reason this story has taken place

is because political oxygen and space was created by the Biden administration. No doubt they lost control of the border. And no doubt politics of this on the left went too far. But no one voted in the United States, and I've not been watching it. from afar because I've just come back from Minnesota reporting from there for the newsagents podcast. And I can tell you right now that no one there, including Republicans, voted for what we are seeing. What I saw in Minnesota, Minneapolis, St. Paul, was the terrorization of ordinary Americans.

Everybody there, particularly if you're black or brown, has a story. They have started in the last 50 days or so, taking out their passports with them, taking out their documentation with them. So scared are they about being accosted by ICE officers. legal American citizens are worried about being picked up and detained for however long, going to church, going to the supermarket, picking up their kids from school. No one in the United States, even Trump voters, voted for that, much less did they vote for the killing of American citizens on American streets. And just to pick up what Vinny said, look, there is a reason that these people, many of these people, Rennie Good and Alex Prattie, completely model American citizens. No criminal

record, simply people concerned about what is going on in the community. Why are they out observing, just observing, not interfering, observing what ICE is doing? That's a lie. No, no, let me finish, Vinny, let me finish. You're lying. Observing, no, I'm not. I saw it for myself. Observing. Remain good was driving her car and barricading you. Can you let me finish that? Can you let me finish that? You're lying. Could you let me finish? Have you been in Minnesota recently? Have you been in Minneapolis? Have you watched it? Because I have. No, why the hell would I want to go to Minnesota? Okay, because you believe what you want to believe. I'm telling you what I saw.

I'm telling you what I saw for myself. You think Renee good? I'm telling you what I saw for myself, my own eyes. People are observing. And why are they observing? They're observing because they know that the federal government will lie about what ICE agents are doing. They have done that repeatedly.

They do not wait, as any normal government would do, for an investigation. They do not wait for the facts to emerge. they do not wait to interview observers and people who are there. They simply decree almost instantly that anybody involved is a domestic terrorist. We have seen those lies about Alex Preti exposed for what they are. He was not trying to massacre anyone as the Department of Homeland Security claim. He was observing because he knows that the federal government will lie.

If these citizens don't come out and do what they do, they know there can be no justice. They know that these ICE agents will be able to act with impunity. And the proof of the pudding in that is what we have seen with Alex Pretti. If those observers were not there, then he would have been shot in the back as he was with his gun in his holster. And the federal government would have lied about it. We would have had to believe what they said. Instead, we were able to see, because of the peaceful observations of the people there, we were able to see the truth. which is this was a man who was shot in the back,

who was posing no threat whatsoever to those ICE officers. And even the reason that they were there in the first place proved to be a lie. That is the ICE officers. Why did ICE say they were there? They said they were there. No, let me finish. They said that they were there to detain an Ecuadorian, an illegal Ecuadorian, who was an ardent criminal.

What did it turn out? The Minnesota Department for Corrections made clear when they got the name of this person. His only violations? Illegal, yes. Was he a violent criminal? No. He'd had a few traffic violations on his record. Alex Preti died for a man who basically had sped and gone too fast in his car. I don't think his death killed in the streets by his own country's officers is worth that, do you? But Lewis, all right, before I go to Gillian, Lewis, just, but what would you do? Right? You're in charge of homeland security in the United States. You know millions and millions of people have come in the last four years illegally. They're in America. There's a lot of anger about that with a lot of Americans.

You've just seen Donald Trump come in with a thumping win on a mandate of dealing with this. If you don't do it the way they're doing it, how do you get these people, identify them, bring them to justice and deport them if they're committing crimes? I would do two things, peers. I would obey the law and I would pass immigration reform. If you obey the law, President Obama, Vinny's already said it for himself. President Obama was called the deporter in chief. He managed to deport millions of illegal citizens, illegals. He did that, he did that, and he didn't need to do that

by employing what is basically a parapole-trained paramilitary force operating with impunity attacking citizens of the United States. And moreover, if you were to do what has long been necessary in America, which is comprehensive immigration reform, the bargain should have always been, always been. The Democrats get what they want, which is a pathway to citizenship, particularly for children who have come over undocumented. But the Republicans get what they want, which is a bolstering of the border. That has been tantalizingly close multiple times.

Normally, it's been Republicans, including now the Secretary of State, Mark Arubio, when he was in the Senate, who walked away from it because they thought it was a good political issue for them to do. You do not need to deal with immigration by breaking the law. Can I have one minute? All right. Very, very quickly, Benny. And then, Gillian. How many ICE detainees died? How many, how many, how many, uh, detainees, illegals died under Obama?

Do you know the number, Lewis, since you're so factual and you have the history report? How many? How many? How many, seven died under Obama? Yes, I know what I'm illegal? And you know what else? And we're here in his custody died. Number one, let me finish.

Let me finish. You said, you said the Biden administration lost control. This is your direct quote. They lost control the border. Yeah. I'm sorry. You are full of, you know what. All right.

It wasn't lost control. It was on purpose. They opened the border. We're back in the conspiracy land. To bring in their damn votes. Well, how would they have been able to vote if they weren't citizens? When Texas put a debt, excuse me, let me finish. When Texas, the governor put a freaking barbed wire,

the White House sued them and sent trucks to lift it up to bring these illegals. Enough for your nonsense. And don't talk about churches. You're talking about they're scared in churches. Look what the hell happened recently with the churches where the two BLM people came in there, and the report just came out that they were telling the kids,

You know what? It sounds like you're saying, Vinny, that really good and Alex Brettie had it coming and it's disgusting. Today's show is sponsored by Oxford Natural, makers of the optimum day and optimum night all natural supplements. Thousands of Brits and Americans are already taking them with incredible results. Optimum day boosts your energy and supports weight loss throughout the day. Optimum night helps you relax and get deep, refreshing sleep.

They have countless success stories, including from some very familiar faces. England legend Michael Owen, who lost £40,000. AFTV's Robbie, we lost more than £100. To watch their full stories and many more, scan the QR code on your screen or visit Oxfordnatural.com slash peers. And here's the best part. Use the code peers and get 70% off your first order.

You're 70% off with the code peers. All right, let's get back on point. Gillian, thank you for your patience. And welcome back to uncensored. Thank you, please. It seems to me in all of this, what I've been pleased about in the last 24 hours is that unlike with René Good,

where there seemed to be just a complete void of humanity and any empathy for what happened to that woman, regardless of the circumstances that led up to her death, people were just treating them as like a pure political porn, right? You were either, she had it coming, she shouldn't have been there, she's domestic terrorists, blah, blah, blah, blah. There was no, like, empathy. This time round, I'm detecting that even President Trump realizes

some of his administration on the airwaves was sounding completely ridiculous, calling this guy, Alex Predict, a domestic terrorist, an assassin, somebody about to wipe out all these ice agents. We know what we saw. That's obviously not what he was doing. He was actually protecting a woman protest

that he'd been thrown to the floor, right now. Should he have, given that he was armed, should he have engaged in any kind of struggle or resistance? Well, probably not. Okay, but the idea that we can't have, incredible empathy for this guy, who's a medic, who's now dead, who never brandished his weapon or shot anybody, and had eight guys swarming all over him. I just find that it's gratifying. We're not seeing quite the same reaction we did with René Good, but it's probably forced by the

politics, which are increasingly damaging to the Trump administration. I have actually heard each and every one of you speak, and I have agreed with pretty much all of you for the majority of what you're saying. With Obama, he did expand expedited removal, which is something put into place by Clinton with a Republican Congress to deny a lot of people due process. It was passed in 96. He also had no sanctuary cities. He was getting cooperation from the city. Those were his cages. They did abort kids.

And the only reason I bring this up is because we're so busy pointing fingers at each other. Okay, this woman bit into ice agent's finger off and they're throwing cinder blocks at ice and they think ice is the Gestapo. And they're impeding and they are. And then at the same time, you've got ice bear spraying people and executing Alex Peretti.

Like all of these things are true at the same time. So the bigger question I have is, Instead of trying to figure out who's more wrong, who's more evil here, how do we do what you just said? And past immigration reform, there is actually a bill right now that is bipartisan. It's called the Dignity Bill. And it gives the Republicans what they want,

which is strong border enforcement. Literally, I have it right here. So if you want to employ, okay, so just hear me out, guys. If you want to employ somebody, you have to go through E-Verify to make sure that they're legal Republicans will like it. like that. You've got physical barriers at the border.

You've got enhanced technology, 24-7 surveillance at the border. Okay, you can come forward if you've been in the country five years, okay? And you can apply for legal status. It costs $7,000, which will be paid over the course of seven years. You have to pay back taxes.

Now, it doesn't give you citizenship because you came in the wrong way, but the kids that came in here have access to citizenship. It funds itself. Like, how do we move forward here? That's what I want to focus on is this is awful. Everybody's heart is breaking for a host of different reasons. And we've got to move forward.

Is this something that we could get behind? And if it is, go to house.gov and contact your local congressperson and tell them you want to get behind this bill or some form of reform, because that's what we need. Yeah, I mean, Mark Lamont Hill, immigration reform has been talked about for decades now. And yet there are a lot of. the points of agreement. Most Americans I've talked to think what Trump has achieved on the southern border is a good thing, and certainly by comparison to what Biden didn't achieve on the

southern border. Most Americans are fair-minded and think, if you're in the country illegally and you commit another crime that isn't linked to your status, you should be deported, right? You're abusing your position of being in the country. The rest of it, you know, America was founded on immigrants and the rest of it is a much more contentious area. But I do think most Americans are fair-minded about it and they want to try and find a way to navigate through the millions of people who've built lives in America and want to contribute and pay taxes, have kids and all the rest of it. It shouldn't be that difficult. It shouldn't be. But I think the problem is, and I agree with what we're.

what you just said, not you, Pears, but the smart woman, who said, Gillian, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate that. I've been snowing with three on for two days, so my name's a blank. At least you remember my name, even if it wasn't for the right reason. Indeed. Jillian, I agree with you. I think the presumption in what you're saying, though, is that everyone is operating under the same premise and everybody has good intentions and everybody's moving in good faith.

And I'm not convinced that people on either side are doing that. But when we see what's happening right now in the Trump administration, it seems like the cruelty isn't just an unfortunate piece of a broader project. In some ways, it seems like the cruelty is the point. And so if the goal here is to impose a certain kind of militarism and a certain kind of police state in very specific areas, then I'm not sure that a compromise is going to work. I agree that Democrats have been bad on this. I agree that, you know, Obama was a deporter-in-chief. I had criticism of Obama for that reason. So it's not that I think we should only focus on Republicans here.

I think there's a bipartisan failure. And I think every midterm election and every four-year presidential election, we see just how much political cowardice exists on both sides, because no one really wants to die on the immigration hill. So they all bluster and bombast, and then at the end of the day, nothing gets done. And we end up in the same place over and over again. I agree, though finally, yeah. I think we could come up with some comments.

It's just like guns. We can come with some common sense regulations. We could come up with some things that are reasonable across the board. And then the devil that's in the details, we could work through. But I think the big detail here that we haven't spoken about

and that I think is important to speak about is that when we say immigration and illegal immigration or that word that I hate illegal alien, we're not really talking about everybody. We're talking about very specific groups of people, very specific ethnicities, very specific colors.

They get a very different response from the average reasonable American than other. There's a reason why we're looking at Somalis. There's a reason why we look at Mexicans. There's a reason why we're looking at Guatemalans, and we're not necessarily looking at all the same people from Eastern Europe or even Western Europe who also could be here illegally. We're looking at very specific populations.

And I'm not worried. I am not unconcerned about the crimes that happen. I agree with you. If you're committing crimes here, that's a significant problem. I'm worried about the lives of the millions of people who are not committing crimes, and I'm worried about the stability of those children who are brought here with no choice involved at all. That's where I think we can reach some common ground.

Yeah, and you know, the Obama thing, I was banging on about that for years, even before this show and other, because it always struck me as hilarious that I would go to these liberal dinner parties and they'd all be ranting about Trump. And I would always do my favorite question. How many people did Obama deport in eight years? And they, A, they didn't know, ever, had no idea. They couldn't guess literally in a blue moon. Well, the number was, and they didn't care because it was their guy. And eventually I would say it was 3 million, more than 3 million. He was the greatest deporter pro rata per year of presidency in history, as he was the biggest bomber, by the way, Obama, right? It's the same Barack.

But those were Democratic drones, peers, that's different. Predator drones in Yemen and Somalia are different. Exactly. Exactly. But here's my question for you, Vinnie. Tim Homan, who actually have had on much so, and I like Tim Homan. I think he's a decent guy. Sorry, Tom, Tom Oman.

I like him as a man. I think he's principled. I think he's trying to do a difficult job as best he can. And I'm glad he's gone down to Minneapolis, and I hope they're sort of that. It's encouraging to me that Governor Walsh, President Trump, are talking. I think that's an indication

that Trump knows this has gone too far and that people in his own administration have been massively trying to sell the public, a lot of bullshit, frankly. But Tom Homan's on the record is saying that there are 20. million illegal immigrants in the United States. 20 million.

Now, if you try and do what they say they're going to do, which is remove all 20 million, that is going to have an incredibly negative impact on the United States economy, right when it can least afford it. Do you genuinely want, you, Vinnie Ashana, want 20 million people removed from the country? Here's, I'm going to tell you something right now.

Yup. Okay, because, and when you guys say stuff like, who voted? Who voted for this? 77 million people voted for mass deportation. And, peers, I am so sorry. That's not just criminals. It's everyone that came here illegally.

From a murderer to a freaking Uber driver who's taking American jobs, peers. My mother, my grandfather, my family from both sides came here and they waited. They did it the freaking legal way, and we're all doing well, okay? We came here the right way. Why does anybody get a pass, peers?

Why is it? Why is it? It's everybody, okay? A sovereign nation gets to pick who stays and who leaves. And just a quick, fun little fact, peers, because nobody likes to talk about facts. Did you know that murder is down 20% the most it's ever been in one year? Why is that, peers? Fentanol overdose, heroin overdose.

There's so many percentages that are down. And everybody, I think it was, the New York Times was like baffled. They're like, what could this be? How could it happen? This is what the real Americans voted for, Pierce. And I'm sorry, Obama, I saw a video today from, 2013 where he goes, hey, kids are getting taken away. It looks bad on camera and XYZ, but hey, it has to be done, Pears.

It has to be done. Yes, it's hard. Yes, it sucks. And you're talking about jobs. How many jobs are those illegals taking from Americans, Pierce? How much money and just really fast, Pierce? Well, how many jobs? Well, hang on.

Vinny. Vinny, how many jobs are they taking that Americans don't want to do would be my question. Okay, Pierce, guess what? Americans will step up and do the damn job. Okay, Pierce, that's just an excuse. And the one thing I want to say, peers, the one thing I want to say, and I'll give it back to you,

when I said, why Minnesota? Is it weird? Nick Shirley, a 23-year-old kid exposed almost $10, $9 billion of fraud. The majority was in the Somali community, and then all of a sudden, all this is happening to distract everybody, peers. This is all, all these awesome Somalis

that are coming here that are robbing the American taxpayer blind. Anybody, peers, anybody, that is here illegally. And I love that Julie made the point. The system's broken meaning for the process. Trump, Trump's at fault because he's going through with the law. He's going through with exactly what the law says. I voted for it.

77 million people voted for it. We are tired, tired of everybody going, oh, you guys are evil for wanting people gone. What's happening in the UK, peers? What's happening in Italy and Germany? Okay? They're all crying now, oh, wow. Because Keir Starrman and everybody's letting you guys get invaded by all these freaking people.

Okay. America stays strong. Yes, we let people come in here, peers, but enough is enough, bro. Enough is enough. Okay. Get everybody out. Leave. Come back in the legal way. What's so wrong about saying that? What's so wrong about saying that? Come. There's a line. There's a line. All right. I'm going to ask Lewis. Lewis, you know, when I want to work and live in America, I've got a home in L.A. When I want to, you know, every three years, I apply for a visa. It costs me several thousand dollars, the pro, I do it all completely, legally. I get all the documentation, all the paperwork. I go to all the interviews. And then, thankfully, for the last 20 years, my visa gets renewed, and I get to continue living and working in the United States.

And what a lot of people who are there who live in America as citizens or who have come in and become, you know, green card holders, citizens, whatever you want to say, they say to me, is, well, why am I going through all this? through all this. Why am I doing things the legal? As Vinnie said, why am I doing things properly and spending money doing it when people can just waltz in over the border and then if they get there, we have to keep them? I completely agree with that. And I agree. Let me say entirely

explicitly, I agree with Donald Trump. I also agree with Bernie Sanders, who both say, if you don't have a board, you don't have a country. I completely agree with that. And I think that's entirely essential as long as you have a nation state. The question is, is I'm sure we can all agree on that in principle. The question then, of course, becomes, what about the people who are here already? And although I think there will be universal agreement, certainly anybody who is a criminal ought to be deported, anyone who commits crimes, there are just practical questions that go beyond the theory. For example, what happens when you have got someone who is brought over, undocumented as a child, they might have been in the United States or the UK, for that matter,

or anywhere, for five, 10, 15, 20 years, they may have got married. They themselves may have had family, children, who are themselves citizens, as a matter of practicality, what do you do about those? Do you want to be the sort of country which sends someone who has lived and contributed and paid taxes for decade after decade back to a country that they know not at all? It's all very well talking about this stuff in theory. It's about, in reality, what you do in practice, which is precisely why there needs to be immigration reform, but just two points of fact, just two points of fact on something that Vinny had said. One is with regards to the UK, there is no invasion of the UK. We're talking about.

about a certain number of irregular migrants. I know this is a sort of obsession with MAGA in terms of what they think is going on in the UK and the misinformation that they see. Yes, there have been too many people that have arrived over the English Channel and the successive governments, conservative and labour. Both of those governments are doing something about it.

More and more of those people are being deported through the proper legal processes. And with regards to why Minnesota and why Minneapolis, why would it be, if this were just a matter of enforcing the border and deporting illegal migrants, Why would it be that you would flood ice agents into the twin cities, which have probably it's estimated between 90 and 100,000 illegal migrants of that massive number that you just said? How could it be that you would have more ice agents in Minneapolis than you have local police offices?

This isn't just about immigration. This is about the politics of fear against a blue state and against a blue set of cities. That's why it's not happening in Texas. That's why it's not happening in red states. a show of political force as much as anything. Okay, but the argument, Gillian, of course, okay, but the argument, of course, Julian, from the other side is, it was the blue states that were helping to fuel the invasion in the first place, right?

They were the ones who didn't care that millions and millions of people were coming in. And Elon Musk has repeatedly said that he believes the motivation for the Democrats and the blue states and the blue presidencies, the motivation in leaving the border so open was that the majority of people who came in illegally that way would be so grateful that they would end up voting Democrat. And therefore, you would change the demographic layout, if you like, of the United States in elections forever in a way that went slanted Democrat.

Well, you also see it in theory, right, if this theory is true that Elon Musk is putting forward, what he's suggesting is the, it also games the apportionment map. Because it doesn't matter if the population in your state is documented legally or not, the more people you have, the more congressmen you get or congresspeople that you get, the more electoral college votes you get.

California has had a pretty massive out migration of citizens, I think one and a half million in the last couple years, but they've also gotten an influx of people who are undocumented. So it's created a parallel. Now, again, Having said that, I can understand why people on the right are like, hey, this is creating shadow economies.

They're paying this guy less to do that job, and I would do it. If he wasn't here, I'd get paid more. Maybe it's true. Maybe it isn't, right? Hey, I'm paying all these tax dollars, and I'm hearing that they're getting health care in California and interest-free loans and all of this stuff that I'm not getting and I'm a tax-paying citizen and they're not. And it creates huge resentment. Then you have people that did go, like Vinnie, like you, who went through the process and did everything right.

Like you peers, and they're like, hey, no, no, no, no, no. They don't get a pass. This isn't fair. But then, as you were just suggesting, what are we going to do? This is almost like a gun debate. You want to remove guns from America? We got 400 million floating around. How are you going to get them out?

At some point, what should be is irrelevant with regard to what is. And this is why, again, I cannot say it enough. I think that this dignity bill gives everyone what they want. If you came in illegally, you can have legal status, you pay back taxes, you pay a fine, but you're not a citizen, you can't vote, you can't work here illegally, it removes these shadow economies, it gives kids that were brought here a path to citizenship. It prevents criminals from being in the country. It forces the state government and the federal government to work together. Like, I just, guys, you're all right in large part. But what do we do about it? Like, can everybody

on this panel, work towards, if it, look at this legislation, work towards moving something like this forward. Like, how can we stop finger pointing? We're tearing each other apart and this is what they want. Both sides want this shit because the more we fight with each other, the more it rallies both sides of the base. Yeah, I agree with that. Let's just sit with a simple question. And I'll start with you, Julian. Should Alex Pretti have been shot? Of course not. Of course not. Lewis? Of course not. It was grotesque.

Mark? Of course not. It's an absurd idea. Vinnie. He absolutely should not have been shot, Pierce, and he shouldn't have been brainwashed to show up to a freaking federal situation with a gun, regardless of what his intention is holding the camera, period. God rest his soul. Okay.

Literally, you know who I am. I'm a Christian. God rest his soul. He shouldn't have been there, and he shouldn't have been brainwashed to go in there and interfere with federal law enforcement. We're not awesome. Just to be clear, real quick, period. I would caveat that by saying, I would caveat that by saying that I think he would argue if he was still with us, that he was exercising his rights to the First and Second Amendment.

And that's totally fine. And that's totally fine. But the interesting part, the interesting. But let's not really get all that. I think the interesting thing is all four of you agree he shouldn't have been shot. And if we start from that position, No, but we're not starting from the same place, fears. That's my point.

We're not. We're not. Three of us are saying he shouldn't have been shot because the police did something wrong, and one of us is saying he shouldn't have been dumb enough to show up there with a gun in protest. And so three of us are saying, Mark, because I know he wants to end. Mark, why was he there?

Mark, why was he there? I'll answer your question. I'll answer your question. As long as you let me finish my sentence first. I haven't interrupted you one time. Go on. So what I'm saying is that I have a critique of the officers in their behavior.

If you show up with a gun to a place where you're allowed to have a gun, And then the gun gets taken from you before you're shot, and you never brandish the gun, you never threaten the officers with the gun. Then I'm putting the blame on the police officers. You can always look at someone's actions to say, if they had done the butterfly effect and say,

had he not done this, that would not have happened. I'm not disagreeing with that. But the question here is, what is his legal right? And what is his moral right? He has a legal right to be there. He had a moral right to be there. He had an ethical right to be there. And what the police did was absolutely horrific.

And so while three of us are saying, yes, he shouldn't have been shot, and you're saying the same thing, you're still blaming him for his own death ultimately, and that's the part I find repugnant. Okay, follow words of it. I'm not, Mark, Mark, I'm with you, brother, 1,000%. First Amendment, second amendment, all that stuff.

Who told this guy that going to ICE and interfering with them legally taking an illegal out of this freaking country was the right thing to do? It was Tim Walts, and he didn't say just go there and protest. He said, get in their face. and they call them the Gestapo. Mark, they're rallying the freaking troops for a reason. And 70% of these arrests of these illegals

have criminal histories. Let's just not just crossing the border. 70%. And I know it sucks, Mark. 30% are just people like, hey, you're illegal. You got to go too. But I'm not blaming anybody. If you show up there, Mark, you show up.

You're responsible for your actions. And then when something happens where you have a gun on your hip with people running around, I'm sorry, Mark. These things come with the territory, brother. On that basis, on, I wish, you know what? I think we've actually reached a place where I finally made some progress in my campaign to stop so many Americans carrying guns. Vinnie Ashana has now endorsed my view that America would be a lot safer

if fewer of you walked around straight with guns. I've got there. It's happened. Thank you, Vin. That's true. No way. It's a long way from that petition that be deported. No, he just wants his people with guns.

I love the, I love, A, Pierce, I know I thanked you earlier, but I love how all of us could sit here. We could all talk, we could all debate, we could all respect each other. I want to say thank you again. And peers, I think I mentioned it before. I think your wife will be okay. For you to be able to come in the country,

never have to deal with this drama, I'll marry you. We won't do any funny stuff just to get you papers in cover. That's how much I love you. You can do so much better. You can do so much back. You know what, Vinnie? I actually, I don't think I could.

Are you offering Marcus? I think Marcus is offering. Live with Vinnie. Live with Vinnie O'Shauna would never be dull. Would never be dull. Thank you all very much. You would be carrying a gun with me. Well, I interviewed my brother earlier actually yesterday.

And he was one of the crack shots in the British Army. So it's not like my family having aversion to guns. some of them are very, very good with guns. He just preferred to do it on a battlefield. Thank you all very much. I appreciate it. Thank you. Thanks, everybody. Thank you, Piersz.

Piers Morgan Nussensit is proudly independent. The only boss around here is me. If you enjoy our show, we ask only one simple thing. Hit subscribe on YouTube and follow Piers Morgan Unsensored on Spotify and Apple Podcast. And in return, we will continue our mission to inform, irritate and entertain. And we'll do it all for free. Independent, uncensored media has never been more critical and we couldn't do it without you.