Piers Morgan Uncensored - "This is NOT Our War!" Israel Strikes Iran - Debate Feat Prof Marandi & Mehdi Hasan

Episode Date: June 16, 2025

If the UN’s experts are correct, Iran is - or was - three days away from enriching enough uranium to build an atomic bomb, supporting Netanyahu’s claim that they’re months, not years, from nuclear weapons. Meanwhile, the IAEA says the IDF is exaggerating the damage it has done to Iran’s nuclear facilities.Most of the allies who are furious with Israel’s increasingly brutal war in Gaza are in lock step with Netanyahu on Iran. But that doesn’t mean there is any public support for being dragged into a full-scale war. Piers Morgan discusses the latest developments with Israeli ambassador to the United Nations, Danny Danon, before assembling a panel comprising of Times columnist Matthew Syed, founder and CEO of ‘The Young Turks’ Cenk Uygur, co-host of ‘The Verdict with Ted Cruz’ Ben Ferguson and Senior Editor at ‘Human Events’Jack Posobiec. Plus, Piers speaks with Iranian professor and regime supporter Mohammad Marandi and Editor-in-Chief at Zeteo News, Mehdi Hasan. Piers Morgan Uncensored is proudly independent and supported by: Ridge Wallet: Upgrade your wallet today! Get 10% Off @Ridge with code PIERS at https://www.Ridge.com/PIERS #Ridgepod Tax Network USA: Call 1-800-958-1000 or visit https://TNUSA.com/PIERS to meet with a strategist today for FREE Beam: Visit https://shopbeam.com/PIERS and use code PIERS to get our exclusive discount of up to 30% off. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We showed our capabilities. We showed the amount of intelligence we have, and we will decide, you know, what we will do next. I think you forgot. You're an American, not an Israeli. Do they or do they not support and fund Hamas and Hezbollah? Think like, you cannot be this stuff. Israel attacked Iran. Stop lying.

Stop lying. Everything you just said, with all due respect, is absolute propaganda for the terrorism. Ten years ago today, Donald Trump comes down, the golden escalator. And what did he say? No more foreign, endless wars. Your friends, your Zionist allies, they have bombed buildings belonging to the Iranian television. I'm in one of those buildings.

The guard right now is standing outside the door telling me to leave. I was yelling at him, telling him to go. I'm going to finish this interview. What we saw on Thursday night from Israel was not a preemptive strike. It was a preventive strike, which is illegal under international law. I don't know why you're believing them on this. If the UN's experts are correct, then Iran is or was three days away from enriching enough uranium to build an atomic bomb. That would support Prime Minister Netanyahu's claim that Iran is months, not years, from developing nuclear weapons.

And nuclear Iran would be a serious threat to Israel, and frankly, to all of us. Now, we know this because the ruling mullahs are not subtle about their intentions. As we're supposed to believe, that chanting death to Israel, death to Britain and death to America, is just excitable rhetoric like globalizing intifada. But there's a lot that we don't know for sure about this crisis. Frankly, the foreign policy experts don't have a stellar record on weapons of mass destruction and Middle Eastern dictatorships. Today, the IAEA, whose evidence is the basis for a lot of this,

said the IDF is exaggerating the damage it's done to Iran's nuclear facilities. As recently as March, the U.S. Director of National Intelligence, said this. The IC continues to assess that Iran is not building a nuclear weapon and Supreme Leader Kameni has not authorized the nuclear weapons program that he suspended in 2003. The IC continues to monitor closely if Tehran decides to reauthorize its nuclear weapons program. Well, Netanyahu has been talking up the imminent threat of a nuclear weapon in Tehran

for at least 33 years, and his core message has always been that Europe and most importantly America should be very afraid about it. Here he was making that point to me in 2013. If President Rouhani picked the telephone up and called you, would you take that call? Yeah, we're not averse to calling. It's a question. I'll tell you what I'll tell them. You want the sanctions lifted? Stop your nuclear program. Why do you need underground bunkers? Why do you need ICBMs? The sole purpose of ICBMs intercontinental ballistic missiles is to carry nuclear payloads. By the way, not to Israel, to Europe and to the United States. They already have missiles.

that reach Israel. Why do you need to enrich uranium? Well, most of the allies who are furious with Israel's increasingly brutal war in Gaza are in lockstep with Netanyahu on Iran. But that doesn't mean there is any public support for being dragged into a full-scale war. A mission creep is Netanyahu's speciality. If Israel's neutralized Iran's nuclear threat, then I support that. But I think I speak for most when I say I don't support mass civilian suffering in a prolonged war as contingent on support from everybody else. In a moment, we'll debate all this with my panel, the columnist of Sunday Times, Matthew Saeed, host and founder of the Young Turks,

Czech Juga, Ben Ferguson, who's the co-host of The Verdict with Ted Cruz, and Jack Posobic, the senior editor at Human Events. But first, I'm joined by Danny Donon. He's the Israeli ambassador to the United Nations. Mr. Donald, thank you very much indeed for coming back on Unsensit. First of all, can you just explain to me where you believe Israel currently is in this operation? Thank you for having me again, Pius. So we are pushing back Iran. You know, it's going to be a long process. You know, for years, Iran build those capabilities, and we know Iran is a big country, and they have a lot of capabilities. When I speak about capabilities, it's not only the nuclear program that everybody speaks about. It's also the ballistic

missile industry. You know, we found out the intentions of Iran to build a massive force of ballistic missiles that can actually compete with the U.S. and Russia. And by the way, unfortunately, we are the price almost every night because you see the damage of those ballistic missile. So you can just imagine if they had thousands of those missiles at the same time targeting Tel Aviv or Jerusalem, it would be devastating. So we are targeting the nuclear facilities, we are targeting the ballistic missile infrastructure. And overall, we know about the extermination plan of Iran against Israel, so we are pushing them back.

there are certain sites which you have been unable to get to because you don't have enough weaponry America has that weaponry would you like America to help you to give you the weapon you need to get into where you believe a lot of this nuclear stuff is being hidden well that would be a US decision you know when we look at what's happening in Iran they are threatening not only Israel but the US they are burning American flags the travel to assassinate President Trump and Prime Minister Netanyahu. So I think the American people understand that we are fighting their fight, but it will be their decision to decide if they want to get involved and how to get involved.

But in the past, you know, it's not for the first time. We were the one who took the initiatives. You know, when we attacked the reactor in Iraq in 1982, we did it ourselves. Same was the case when we attacked the reactor in Syria. It's not the same. We are talking about a much... much bigger task this time, you know, a strong country. And when you look at the numbers, Israel is a tiny country.

You know, 9 million people compared to 90 million people in Iran. You look at the size of Israel, you know, Iran is 70 times bigger than Israel. So it is a challenge for us, but we decided not to wait anymore. There are many people who say that Prime Minister Netanyahu in particular has spent three decades talking about the imminent danger of Iran developing nuclear weapons. and enriching uranium. Why should we believe now that it is any nearer to being done

than in those 30-odd years? Well, first, you need to listen to the IAA. You know, if you don't want to believe us or our intelligence, they say themselves that they have enough enriched uranium, that it's enough for multiple bombs. And then you look at the intentions.

And I tend to believe the Iranians. When they say they want to destroy Israel, I believe them. When they say that they will use those weapons and have a sign that actually with a clock in the square in the middle of Tehran, I believe them. So we don't take any chances anymore. And after October 7th, you know, we saw the evil of our enemies. So we cannot wait and decide to wait more whether Iran will have the bomb and you will use it or not. We are not going to be in that situation. That's why we

took the preemptive attack. And you know, when you have the intention and you have the ballistic missiles and you have enriched EU anew, so until when should we wait, until they actually send the bomb to Tel Aviv? We will not do that. Your defense minister Katz this morning posted on X, the arrogant dictator from Tehran,

has become a cowardly murderer who fires targeted shots at the civilian home front in Israel to deter the IDF from continuing the attack but is collapsing its capabilities. The residents of Tehran will pay the price and soon. This was seen by Many people, including myself, I responded to that, to say that this seemed to be a direct threat against the civilian population of Tehran.

He later said, I would like to clarify the obvious, even though it clearly wasn't obvious. There is no intention to physically harm the residents of Tehran, as the murderous dictator does against the residents of Israel. And it carried on the clarification. But it was a very stupid thing of him to post, wasn't it? to even infer, albeit in a way that he says came out wrong, that the civilian population, the residents of Tehran, would become targets of Israeli strikes. Well, as you said, Pils, the minister clarified his statement,

but I would say more than that. Not only we care for the people of Iran, we pray for them. And if they are watching us now, I want to tell them, we feel their feels, and we have nothing against them. We know that they are being oppressed, and we pray for the day that they will be able to live normal life, and we can go back to where we were 46 years ago before the revolution. You know, we had daily flights between Tel Aviv to Tehran.

You know, we had real bond with the Iranian people, and I believe one day it will be the same. So we pray for the Iranian people, and we hope that they will not be oppressed in the future. And for us, you know, we do everything we can to minimize civilian casualties. You know, even today, we announced that we are going to attack. a certain area in Tehran in order to minimize civilian casualties. And they are doing exactly the opposite.

Every night they are targeting cities, neighborhoods in Israel. And unfortunately, every night we have casualties, families, kids that are being kid from those missiles. You've been very successful in taking out a lot of the senior military commanders in Iran and a number of nuclear scientists. This is according to obviously what you have put out. but the Ayatollah remains alive. It's been reported that President Trump has vetoed any attempt to assassinate the Ayatollah. But, I mean, out of interest,

if you're going to target all the top people of the regime, why would you not target the Ayatollah? Perth, I will not go into detail, but I will tell you that. You know, we showed our capabilities. We showed the amount of intelligence we have about the whereabouts of the leadership of Iran and the IRJC, we showed our capability to fly everywhere, not only above Tehran, everywhere in Iran, which is a huge country. So we have those capabilities, and we will decide,

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so please support our show and tell them I sent you. Just explain something to me, which is that this has clearly been a very well-planned operation. There are reports of Mossad agents being all over Iran, planning all sorts of stuff involving drones and targeting sites and targeting people and so on. So from a military perspective, a highly successful operation so far, as indeed was the operation against Hezbollah, where 3,000 terrorists were targeted with the pager devices. Again, very successful, very precise, very targeted Mossad's fingerprints all over it, which does beg the question. And it's one that I've asked that I've not really had a satisfactory answer to.

But why is it that with Mossad, one of the world's foremost intelligence agencies, being clearly at the forefront of going after terrorism with Hezbollah and with now Iran, why was it completely incapable of knowing the right on the doorstep of Israel, Hamas, who were given government or elected governors, given free reign when Israel pulled out of Gaza in 2005, they were able to spend 20 years building a highly sophisticated, very deep tunnel network, and were then able to plan one of the world's worst terror attacks in modern times.

And even after doing all that, The only way that Israel's been able to go after Hamas has been to basically flatten as much of Gaza as it can and in the process kill 50, 60, maybe 70,000 or more people, including maybe three quarters of that being civilians. People seem sort of nonplussed, why Mossad seems to drop the ball so badly in Gaza and with Hamas and yet being so successful in other parts of the region.

So first I agree with you that we have to give credit for the country. the Mossad for the operations in Lebanon and in Tehran. You know, we have no border with Iran. We have no dispute with them. It's 1,000 mile away from Israel. And still, we developed a very impressing capabilities in Iran. Regarding to your question, you know, it's important to understand that Mossad is not in charge of Gaza or acquiring intelligence in Gaza. In our government, in our system, you have separation between Mossad. If you don't mind me interrupting, why not? I mean, they've been right in the heart of Tehran. Allow me, allow me to explain.

Why not in Gaza? It doesn't make any sense. So I will explain my point that, you know, Mossad is dealing with external threats. And Shabakh, the internal security agency deals with the threat within Israel, which includes Gaza and Judean Samaria. So, yes, I agree with you that we failed on October 7th. And we're going to have to inquire exactly what happened. You know, I was Deputy Minister of Defense 10 years ago. and I set in many important intelligence committees.

I think one of the reasons for our mistake was that we focused too much on Lebanon and Hezbollah. We always thought that Hezbollah is an imminent threat, and they will be the one who will actually invade Israel, they will be the one who will attack Israel, and we put a lot of resources, a lot of energy looking north, and we should have looked south. And that was a huge mistake.

We paid a heavy price for that. But I agree with you. We're going to have to look into what happened in Gaza and why it was neglected. There's a very long and detailed and very damning report has come out today in New York Magazine, extremely thorough and detailed and well researched, which concludes that Israel has almost certainly been perpetrating a lot of war crimes in Gaza. This is something which your own former prime ministers have been saying now as well. Obviously, Israel's government has emphatically denied this.

but at the same time persists in having a ban on any international journalists coming into Gaza to verify what is actually happening on the ground. Surely the best way to establish whether you have or haven't been acting within the law is to allow international journalists in to do their job, isn't it? Well, first, I have to disagree with this language. I deal with that at the UN every day when people spread lies so easily, blood libels, you know. Well, these are former prime ministers of Israel with all due respects. I mean, they're not exactly people

who you would normally expect to accuse Israel of war crimes. He was prime minister 20 years ago, and he's bitter, and he doesn't like the current government. But not only from the inside, you know, Tom Fletcher, a senior diplomat here at the UN, claimed that 14,000 babies will die within 48 hours. Yeah, he made a terrible mistake. That was a stupid thing to say,

and he made a terrible mistake for which he's apologized. Yeah, but he didn't apologize for claiming there with a genocide. side in Gaza. So people, you know, spread those lies, and then they sometimes they retract it, sometimes they don't, and we have to deal with the consequences, with the incitement. So yes, I agree with you. There is suffering in Gaza. I agree with you. It is painful for Israelis and Palestinians. But let's, you know, stick to international law. Let's look at the facts. We are doing our best, you know, even now when we are in a middle of a war with Iran, today the centers in Gaza were operated, the humanitarian fund and four centers delivered tens of thousands of packages to Palestinians.

So I think we should look at the facts and to understand that we still have hostages in Gaza. And this conflict will end with the hostages coming home and Hamas getting out of Gaza. Maybe they will be deported like what happened in Lebanon in the 80s with the PLO. Maybe they will surrender. But I think that would be the end of this conflict. And why haven't you let the journalists in? Well, you know, first of all, today you have access, you have Wi-Fi, you can see everything that happens in Gaza. You have reporters inside Gaza for all agencies that support.

You know, for us to take responsibility for people coming in and out in a war zone, it's something we don't feel comfortable with. I don't think you need to, listen, all I know, all I know is with all due respect, Ambassador, is that very soon after October the 7th, Israel's government, instructed the IDF to take the world's journalists to the scene of the appalling crimes of terrorism that were committed in Israel. But when it comes to what is going on in Gaza, there's been an almost total ban on any international journalists.

And with all due respect, it's not your concern whether international journalists will be at risk or not. That's the risk assessment of their own companies who employ them, as it is in any war zone. You should allow them in. And then this whole question of whether Israel is operating within the law or not, can actually be established by independent journalists

coming from around the world. And until you do that, it's going to raise the obvious suspicion that you're doing things you don't want the world to know. Well, it's a legitimate debate, but, you know, just imagine what would happen, God forbid, you know, one of the journalists will die.

Nearly 200 Palestinian journalists have been killed. So it's not unusual for journalists to be dying. You know, I have to do. beg with yours, you know, I don't buy those numbers, you know, so when you... Well, you don't buy any of the numbers, but that's the problem. Again, all due respect, Ambassador. Israel can now just say that you don't

buy any of the numbers, because they're all supplied by the Palestinians... When it comes from when it comes from Hamas, I don't buy any numbers. Yes, but you also know that in previous... When it comes from Hamat, I don't buy it. Right, but historically, in this conflict, going back decades, actually, the Palestinian Health

Authority numbers for casualties have turned out to be broad accurate after the event. So it's only in this particular flare-up, this particular war as part of the ongoing conflict, that suddenly Israel's government is saying, you can't believe

any of the numbers, to which again, I simply say, there's a very easy way to verify this stuff, let in the journalists. No, you know, we saw that those numbers that were exaggerated from the beginning, they were used by Hamas for propaganda. And I agree with you.

It's hard to find out the exact numbers. You know, but you know, when you read those numbers, you ask yourselves, so where are the Hamas terrorists? They didn't die in this conflict. You know, they claimed they were all civilians, were all children. You know, we know it's exaggerated. But you know what? I agree with you that they're suffering in Gaza and there's casualties in Gaza. But the blame is on Hamas. It's not on us. We can end this war tomorrow. If they would release the hostages, you know, lay down the weapons, maybe get out of Gaza, and then we can think about a future for the region. It will happen. As soon as it will happen, the better it will be.

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Call 1-800-958-1000 or visit tnusa.com slash peers. That's tnusa.com slash peers. Let Tax Network USA make the next move, not the IRS. Yeah, look, it's interesting to me that as somebody that supported Israel's right to defend itself after the appalling events of October the 7th, those terrible terror attacks, and I did so for many, many months. But as I've become increasingly critical of Israel's government strategy in Gaza, and so have many other people, clearly many of your allies,

that at the same time, you've got a lot of broad support for what you're doing with Iran, because people understand that Iran has become this kind of fulcrum of terrorism in the Middle East. We have to draw a close to our interview, but it just, again, beg the question, if the IDF had been more targeted in conjunction with Mossad in going after Hamas,

rather than just leveling Gaza to the ground and killing tens of thousands of civilians as it went after Hamas, if it had been as targeted or as smart as it was with Hezbo. and now in Iran, you may have had a lot more support than you're currently getting for what you're doing in Gaza. Probably you're right, but I want to add one point. It's much harder to deal with a terrorist organization that hide among civilians and use them as a human shield.

That's why this war is very long. You know, 20 months, you know, it's a very long war for us. It's different. You know, it's easier to fight a military or to fight another state than to fight a terror organization, which is, you know, so invoble. with the civilians in Gaza. So it's much more challenging. But I hope that the people in Hamas understand

that we are determined. And hopefully in the next few days, they will accept the framework that the US put on the table and we can move forward to see a ceasefire and the release of more hostages. Ambassador Donovan. I appreciate you coming back on Oncensor.

Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Well, let's go to the panel. Chink, I could see you reacting pretty violently to what you were hearing there. So what is your response to what you heard from the ambassador? Yeah, when Israeli officials speak, it's like they're in fantasy land.

So they leveled Gaza. And the reason that they leveled Gaza is because they're going to take Gaza. And that's not speculation anymore. When those of us who were opposed to their war crimes and genocide said they were going to take Gaza, that it had nothing to do with self-defense. It had to do with land acquisition, as all the wars that Israel starts has to do with.

They said, oh, that's anti-Semitic, how dare you? Now their cabinet has said, yeah, we're going to take Gaza. It's a conquest. So now they've started another offensive war in Iran. They'll pretend to be the victims. That's what they always do. Oh, my God. I had to start a war for self-defense.

Nonsense. Garbage. Just like you said, 33 years, they even say any day now Iran's going to have nukes. It was a lie. And then Yahoo went on Fox News over the week. weekend, admitted they weren't even close to having it within a year. Then they said, oh, it's because of ballistic missiles. The ambassador there again referred to the ballistic missiles. An incredible number of countries have ballistic missiles. Is Israel going to attack all of them?

Is Israel going to invade all of them? And then pretend that it's self-defense. How many, and then they talk about, oh, we try so hard to not have civilian deaths, and then American media plays along. No, they killed hundreds of civilians in Tehran. They always killed civilians. civilians. They always kill more civilians than their opponents while pretending that they care so much about civilians. They're the ones starting all the wars. We all have eyes and ears. We just saw them start this war. And every time American media plays along and pretends that there's a fantasy land where Israel's the victim and they, oh my God, they just had to attack yet another Middle Eastern neighbor. They just had to take Gaza. So almost when you hear an Israeli official, speaking, they're lying.

They're lying almost 100% of the time. I mean, I don't want America I'm going to come to Ben Ferguson to respond. All I would say is clearly when you have the leader of Iran, the Ayatollah, who's gone on record as saying he wants to get rid of Israel,

and when you have Hamas in Gaza who are also wedded to getting rid of Israel, it's not completely irrational that they would feel that they are under threat. Now, you and I have debated a lot. The way they've gone about things in Gaza. It's markedly different how they've gone about things in Iran and with Hezbollah. But I don't think we can pretend that Israel is not under threat from either Iran or Hamas. Ben Ferguson.

Yeah. What he just said admitted one massive aspect of the conversation. There was an attack on Israel. There was the kidnapping and the torturing and the raping and the murdering of innocent people that were gathering to have a fun weekend. The idea, that he is forgetting what happened on October 7th and acting like Israel just woke up on a random Tuesday and decided to start attacking Gaza is absolute anti-Semitic insanity. We know what started this.

And the second part of this, he says, hey, are they going to attack everybody in the world that has ballistic missiles? I lock my doors at my house every night for the people that might be right outside of my house. And you have someone that is saying, we want to annihilate you from the river of the sea and chance death to Israel.

Israel and says they want to murder you because you are Jewish and to act as if they don't have a right to defend themselves and to attack Gaza after you have a massive terrorist network, an underground tunnel system that allows for them to go after you every single night where you have to have an iron dome to protect and defend. So everything you just said, with all due respect, is absolute propaganda for the terrorists because you admitted the fact that Israel was a hacked first that started the whole damn thing. Okay. No. Matthew Sayy.

No. What I heard was propaganda for a terrorist just now from Ben, the terrorist state of Israel, who's been occupying the host of 158 years. Why don't you let them go? Why don't you let a foreign people go? How much do you want to oppress and humiliate and murder them? Now you're going to murder Iranians. And by the way, Ben, I think you forgot.

You're an American. not an Israeli. Act like an American, not in Israeli. What are you a foreign agent? Why are you working for a foreign government? Why don't you care about American interests? I don't work for a foreign government. We've got no interest in this war.

All right. Again, I have an interest in people being able to live a life without fear of bombs coming into their backyard, hitting their apartments, hitting their homes from a terrorist organization. Iran is a part of that. And you know it. And all of the Middle Eastern neighbors of Israel. They live in fear of Israel. the terrorist state attacking them 24.

Israel doesn't go on the offensive they respond to being attacked. And take their land. All right. Time out. Why did you admit the... There's absolutely no question about it. Singh, I've known you for a long time.

One question. Why did you admit, and you're an opening statement, that Israel was attacked on October the 7th? Why did you not mention it one time? Because that is the fact that you cannot bring up because that is what started the catalysts of where we are today. You know it, so you didn't mention it. because you want to indict Israel acting people. It's bullshit.

All right. Listen, I do want to let the other two partners come in. Jake, you'll get a chance to come back. 58 years are brutal occupation. And you think it started on October 7th. Let's not go back to the whole 75 years. You're still murdering Palestinians. Still murdering Palestinians for sports. Gentlemen, there are four panelists, please. Okay, you love genocide. I got it.

They're four panelists. Guys, there are four panelists. You can come back on. a second and have further thoughts. Matthew said, you wrote a great column at the weekend, and you were talking, and I thought was very striking to me, about the difference between Vladimir Putin rattling his nuclear sabre, because, as you pointed out, he's an extremely materialistic guy who's amassed hundreds of billions of illicit gains at the expense of his people, and he's the last person that would want to actually die for his country by pressing nuclear buttons, which would lead to his immediate

the vaporization. I've been saying that for ages. However, it is a different thing when it comes to Iran. There will be people there with very fundamentalist ideals who might think if they're cornered, who might think if there's nothing else they think can get them through, who might think nothing of using a nuclear weapon if it came to it. And with the same kind of nihilistic attitude that we saw from al-Qaeda, that we saw from ISIS and so on. That's right. I mean, a couple of quick points. Firstly, I like to think of my... myself is broadly pro-Israel, but I think like you, feel that the destruction that has been visited upon Gaza is a moral, political and strategic calamity. When it comes to Iran, the reason

I think that the logic of nuclear deterrence won't work is because they are, many of them in the regime, religious fanatics. They believe they have absolute truth. And the psychology of that is very interesting. It means that anyone who doesn't subscribe to their truth is an infidel and that they are wrong. And they glorify martyrdom and believe that if they can take down infidels, they will go through a door into paradise where they will be blessed forever. And I grew up in the 1980s. My father was born as a Shia Muslim, and I followed the Iran-Iraq war extremely closely. And viewers might be interested that the clerics, the fanatics who took over after the 79 revolution, indoctrinated young, innocent children that they were seen.

supposed to protect and ask them to walk and often run into minefields and blow themselves up. And they were then depicted in government propaganda as heroes, their limbs strewn across battlefields that many of us have now forgotten about. That to me is a death cult of great danger, not just to Israel, but to their own people. Because if they acquire a nuclear weapon and they visit one upon Israel, as they have claimed they would do. Amadinajad said Israel must be wiped from the pages of history. The supreme leader described it as a cancer. Call me old-fashioned, but I take these people's words. I take them at their word, if I can put it that way, but also a danger to the Iranian people who would

die in a counter-strike. And by the way, my views of the regime in Iran are corroborated by 70% of the Iranian people, a fantastic people, an ancient civilization, most of whom have been immisorated by this regime that has also destabilized the wider region through proxies and Hamas and Hezbollah and as you say Hamas is genocidal too so one can have i think an approach of saying yeah Israel have got things wrong of course they have the person who was on before the ambassador doesn't seem to be able to admit that but my goodness when Israel goes after the regime in Tehran not the Iranian people the regime i think all right-minded people should support it wholeheartedly CREATine is America's number one, and it's made by a company founded on values like hard work

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And once we murder them, they'll love us, and they'll want to get rid of their regime. You can tell all these stories about the regime, and those are true. They're fundamentalists. They're not good guys at all. Saddam was not a good guy. That doesn't mean that we had to invade Iraq. cost ourselves several trillion dollars and over 50,000 Americans dead on behalf of Israel, who at the time called Iraq their number one enemy and who had not, Iraq had not attacked. But that change, that is not what's happening.

So in this case, Iran did not attack Israel. Israel attacked Iran. Stop lying. Stop lying. Israel attacked Iran. Okay. Iran did not attack Israel. I'm perfectly happy to say Israel is aggressive.

They did through their proxies, peers. They did through their proxies. The Iran is attacked on a daily basis. I just think when anyone try to. I do not support and fund Hamas and Hezbollah. Think like you cannot be this dumb. I understand that you're propagandists for the regime, but you and I both know. Iran supports Hamas and America first didn't want any wars.

Multiple terrorist organizations. They have no funding without Iran. When I hear you guys describing Israel's enemies. They attack Israel every day. You know that. You're not that dumb. You're a smart guy. Sure.

You're propagandists, but you know that. Sure. So when I hear you guys describing Israel's enemies, what you're actually doing is projection. You're describing Israel, attacking all of their neighbors, killing civilians, an aggressive military empire that you bring into an acquisition and wiping out their enemies. All right. You know who said from the river to sea, Benjamin Netanyahu. Who's actually doing from the river to the sea?

Benjamin Netanyahu. Who started all the wars? Benjamin Netting Yahoo. Get out, America. Get out of this war. This has nothing to do with this. us. These guys were phrased real. Let me bring in Jack, please. And the idea that the Iranian people want to be killed. The idea that the Iranian people want to be invaded and bombed is insanity. They do not want that. No, but I do think a lot of people in Iran... I do think a lot of people in Iran would probably be much preferred to have a different kind of ruler than they currently have.

Who operates such a tritonian and repressive regime. Yeah, they do not want Israeli rulers. Okay, well, that's a different question. Let me come to Jack. You'd be waiting very patiently. Jack, you know, Chank mentioned America first and how this is incongrued. with America First. Well, at the moment, this appears to be an Israeli operation. They've started this war with Iran. Donald Trump appears to be taking a position of, we don't want to get involved here,

making it clear this is not being done with America's obvious physical help, albeit, I don't think he's too bothered about it happening. I'm probably quite pleased if it does destabilize Iran. But where does this all sit with Donald Trump's America First ideology? Should America, if it comes to him, if Iran suddenly attacks some American base, for example, should America get involved in this war? Well, peers, this is not America's war. This is a war that is confined to two parties in the Middle East.

This is a war where the United States faces absolutely faces the threat of escalation. And as you mentioned, this mission creep in spilling over into the wider footprint of American military that exists throughout the Middle East. and I don't just mean Iraq and Syria. I mean, all of the American bases, which are clearly within range of you mentioned the proxies, you mention all these other forces out there. Of course it strikes the danger of spilling over, not to mention the IRGC has the ability to shut down the Strait of Hormuz

and imagine what that would do to global shipping and oil prices. By the way, they haven't done that. And 10 years ago today, so 10 years ago today, Donald Trump comes down the golden escalator. And what did he say? No more foreign, endless wars. and instead, why don't we focus on the problems at home? He talked about, obviously, illegal aliens.

He talked about deportations, but he said millions and, excuse me, trillions of dollars spent in Iraq, trillion spent in Afghanistan. And what did it get for us? Nothing. Dead soldiers, wounded soldiers, we got absolutely nothing out. And you want to talk about destabilization? Well, I think those wars, the massive wars on terror,

wars that, by the way, when I was in the United States military, I did participate in, at least in an intelligence capacity. but what did that do to the region? It destabilized it. Syria completely destabilized right now. Iraq, completely destabilized. And Afghanistan, the Taliban is even in a better position than they were before we got involved because they have all the U.S. military equipment that we left there.

And so every time the U.S. gets involved in one of these things, it actually seems to make the situation much, much worse. Okay. Let's take a short break panel. I'll come back to you for your reaction to this next interview I'm about to do. It's with the Iranian academic and former advisor to Iran's nuclear negotiating team, Mohamed Morandi. Professor Miranda, thank you for coming back on uncensored.

This is a pretty terrible situation for Iran. It looks like Israel has caught your military napping, caught your leaders napping. They've been asleep, it seems, quite literally, in some cases, as Israel launched this surprise attack, which has been so far stunningly successful. and had comparatively small retaliation from Iran, which suggests that maybe you don't have the capability to do much about what is happening to your country. Well, first of all, I have to point out some nonsense that your guest said.

I fought in the Iranian-Ira war as a volunteer, and I was part of the war effort for six years on and off. I wounded four times, and I survived two chemicals. attacks. There was no children being pushed over mindgills. These are myths that Westerners, Western media, Western elites have been promoting for many years in order to demonize Iranians and to portray us as fanatic. Right now, Pierce, your friends, your Zionist allies, they are, they have bombed buildings belonging to the Iranian television. I'm in one of those buildings. And the guard right now is standing outside the door telling me to leave.

And I was yelling at him, telling him to go. I'm going to finish this interview. We are not intimidated by you, your government, the United States, or the Israeli regime. This was a blatant act of aggression. People were murdered in Iranian radio and television just minutes ago. And I tweeted it. and your colleagues have seen it. And this building is also a target.

Your allies target journalists. Your allies have murdered over 200 journalists. And you are complicit in this genocide. Well, let me respond to that, Professor. Listen, I've seen you, Professor, all due respect, Professor. You are committed. All due you respect, Professor, I've seen you doing this kind of stick in the last few days on all sorts of shows.

And let me just respond. The reason that I actually think that Israel has a right to do what it is doing with your regime is that your regime has been the fulcrum for terrorism in the Middle East now for decades. Through Hezbollah, through the Houthis, through Hamas. It has done whatever it can do to destabilize the region, to terrorize Israel and anyone else it doesn't like. It's a draconian, oppressive, appalling regime, which is deeply unpopular with many Iranians. and every time I've seen you appear in the last few days, you've had a big smirk grin on your face

as if somehow you know better than everybody else and that somehow we are misinterpreting your rulers and your regime and they're all a bunch of really nice people who have nothing but good intentions for the rest of the world when in fact is the complete opposite. And finally, Israel said enough and they're coming after your nuclear capability because your own ruler, the Ayatollah, has made it clear

that he would very most like to see Israel removed from this world. And if you hear that and you're in Israel, then you're going to take action to stop that happening. So that would be my response to you. Well, if your rant is over, I would point out that you are a dishonest person and a dishonest, so-called journalist. He can do ad-hominent stuff as much as you like.

But you were too cowardly. Be quiet for a moment. Be quiet for a moment and let me speak. You don't tell me in the bad of my own show. If you're going to call me a coward, if you're going to call me a coward and love to speak, then I won't be quiet on my own show, especially not from someone like you who spews disinformation.

I am, I am, I am the one in this building that has been evacuated and I'm only sitting here because of you. So allow me to speak. Well, keep the ad hominimate. yourself then. You're going to call me a liar and a coward. I'm going to jump in and take you on. You are. You are. You are. You are. You are. You are. You are. You are. You are a coward. You are you a coward. You did not come to Iran when I invited you. So you have no right to. I wouldn't trust going to Iran. Well, on earth. I trust going to Iran. As your guest said nonsense about. As your guest in

Iran with your, with your contacts with the Iranian regime? So don't. I wouldn't trust that as far. I was like a throat. So don't comment about Iran if you don't come here. Well, let me give you some facts about your country. Let me give you some facts and see where I'm wrong here.

Women face severe restrictions when it comes to marriage, divorce, inheritance, child custody, and so on. Compulsory veiling, punishable by flogging and prison sentences. Women punished for bad dressing

to find as exposing any body parts below the neck. Women ban from certain professions. They can't be judges. They can't be in certain positions in government. A ban on independent political parties, civil society organizations, trade unions, LGBT people suffer systematic discrimination and violence, closing shops that have so-called improperly veiled customers. Authorities censor media jam certain television channels continue to block or filter mobile apps, social media platforms, executions including those of children, torture and other ill-treatment, are widespread as well. systematic. State television can often air torture, tainted confessions, arresting and sentencing

people who break fast during Ramadan. Anyone who speaks out protests against a regime can be subjected to the death penalty flogging, prison terms and other severe penalties. It doesn't sound like a great place for me to visit, with all due respect, Professor Miranda. So you can tell me that I'm a coward and I'm a liar, and I can tell you that you prop up. Personally, you go on the airwaves and you disingenuously prop up and grotesquely defrable. a terrible regime, which is now getting, as many people see, its final comeuppance for constantly threatening Israel with getting a bomb and taking it out. And that's what this is about. You know it and I know it. And you also know that your regime has propped up the Houthis and has Bola and Hamas.

It has been the octopus with its tentacles of terrorism spreading all over the Middle East. So you can call me what you like But what you can't do is deny what I've just said You are a coward So you keep saying So you keep saying You are a coward That's all you can say isn't it

It's all you've got It's all you've got Do one of your smart grins You help enable genocide in Gaza for the time You don't want to let me talk You don't want me to talk Oh I do but if all you're going to do is call me a coward And a liar

Then why should I keep listening to that Pointless. That's what you've been doing on the airways for days. Because you say nonsense. What was nonsense about any other than? What was nonsense about anything I said? Everything, but you just rant on and you think this way you can convince your audience that while your allies are murdering Iranians, while your allies have murdered justice in the buildings near here.

mass murder. Your regime has been responsible for mass murder. Let me talk. You are afraid. You are afraid of letting me talk because you know that your narrative, your narrative is falling apart. Your narrative is, I'm a coward and alive. You've got anything else in your tank? Any other argument other than that hominem? You made a couple of weeks ago.

You won't let me talk. You are afraid of letting me talk. You're afraid. I'm not afraid of you, Professor Miranda, but you look to me like you're afraid, because you know now that the game is up. Iran's terrorism game is up. I am in a building. I am in I, I am in the Iranian radio television building, and it has been emptied because they say they're going to bomb this building.

And I stayed here for you, and you are responsible for justifying these criminal acts, and those colleagues of yours in Iran who are true journalists who died today, their blood is on your hand. They're not on my hands, because I'm not part of the Israeli government, all the IDF. You are too cowardly to let me talk.

You are just talking nonsense. You're talking nonsense. If I was a coward, I wouldn't have had you on. I wouldn't have had you on if I was a coward, but I knew what you would try and do. You try and do this with all the journalists that you talk to. and I'm afraid it doesn't work anymore.

Your stick doesn't work anymore. You defend the indefensible. You go ad hominem on every host you ever talked to. You were at it yesterday. You are at a Sky News presenter. And I'm not going to take it from you. Sorry, just not going to. I don't care.

You're a genocide enabler. That's what you are. And you're a terrorism defender. You're a terrorism defender. You have a lot of your hands. Yeah. You defend a terrorist regime. That's what you do.

All the perfume of Arabia will never clean those hands with your peers. Kill, keep on the killing, keep on justifying murder, keep on demonizing Iranians and Palestinians and Lebanese, and keep on killing. I demonize terrorists. What I do is demonize terrorists. And the main fulcrum, the main fulcrum of terrorism,

you are, the main terrorism for terrorists, for terrorism, which has been incredibly damaging to the people, to Palestinians, to Lebanese, to Iranians, has been the Iranian regime. You are a towered and an enabler of terrorism. You have nothing else to say. Professor Miranda. Professor Miranda, it's good to end with one of your... Good to end with one of your...

Good to end with one of your smirks, because they really play well with an audience, I can tell you. When they see you smirking away, it really is a good look. You're too power to let me talk. Yeah. You're too power to say. All you've got to say is to attack me. All you care about is attacking me. That's not talking.

You won't let me explain anything. Yeah. You won't let me explain anything. You won't let me explain anything. You don't want to explain. You want to just call me a liar and a coward and a genocide neighborhood. Do you got anything else? Anything else?

Anything else? Lebanon and captured the... Yes, you are lying. You are lying about you. Professor Miranda is, thank you for the interview. I wish you are safe there. I do, genuinely. Okay.

Thank you for joining me. I don't think so. I appreciate it. I'm going to go back to the panel now. Matthew side, I've talked to Professor Miranda a few times, and I watched him on the airways of the last few days, getting increasingly angry watching him because he is just a ludicrous individual. who comes out and constantly defends the indefensible

when it comes to that Iranian regime and has very close contacts with the rulers of Iran. But, you know, it's an interesting thing that in between all the attacks he was spearing about me, the fact that he's sitting there now in a media building by the sound of it, which he's been told to evacuate, this is getting very serious and very real, isn't it, for people in Iran? Very serious. And he reminded me a bit of, I don't know, comical alias.

I was exactly going to say that. It's just completely ridiculous. Yeah, completely deluded. Deluded and clearly shilling for the regime. And I just think of this incredible civilisation that stretches back thousands of years with the GDP per capita of like $4,000. Israel's is over $50,000, a freer society,

one that wishes to develop and grow and be prosperous, rather than to live in this medieval, religious fanatical worldviews. All the things that you said, their peers were completely true about the way they degrade women and repress free speech and all these other punitive measures that are just so awful to endure. One thing I'd throw in, though, is I agreed with the previous speaker on the panel who said that the Afghanistan war was a mistake.

It would have been better not to have gone in. I think that's a fair counterfactual analysis. I actually was against the Iraq War II. But I think we should confront something that I don't think was confronted by the America First lobby. which is that if one agrees that Iran would like a nuclear weapon, as the nuclear weapon atomic energy authority has said, 60% enrichment getting very, very close.

And if you also believe, as I do, that they would likely use it, then let's not pretend that America can stay out of this. Even a relatively small nuclear war would lead to a nuclear winter that would have an effect around the world of catastrophic proportions. It would affect farming all around the world. It would lead to famine. We can't allow Iran to get to. a nuclear weapon. The idea that the

counterfactual is staying out and allowing a nuclear, potentially a nuclear strike to occur, would be catastrophic. I think we need to face up to that truth. I mean, you're shaking your head throughout all that. I don't understand why you feel comfortable being such a defender

of Iran. I'm not. No, no. You see, that's total propaganda. Okay, so let's break it down one by one. Okay, so number one, when I see the Israeli ambassador earlier, he sounds like Baghdad Bob to me. Like Iran is the aggressor. No, Israel is clearly the aggressor. We all saw them start the war. Second of all, they say, oh my God, we're so worried about civilians.

Israel always kills more civilians than their opponents. And by an order of magnitude, for example, Hamas, terrible. They killed 36 kids on October 7th. Awful, right? Israel has killed 500 times as many kids. So this guy pretending to be an Iranian expert is telling us about how much he's concerned about women. Israel has killed 20,000 women. in Gaza. How about their rights? How about the rights to those women to stay alive? How about all the civilians are you avoiding in criticizing? So when I see you guys, hold on, I'm not avoiding it at all. But Chang, I'm not avoiding it at all. Let me explain. Why are you ducking saying criticism of Iran? It's a simple question. I'm not ducking it at all. You ready? You're ready? It's simple. I don't

like the Iranian regime at all. Okay. I'm an atheist now. They would kill me first. I got no interest in the Iranian regime, but the Israeli regime would also murder me. So I want you guys to be fair and balanced. So don't tell me that the Iranian regime is super dangerous to its neighbors while Israel actually attacks all of its neighbors, including Iran. So tell me about how dangerous the Israeli terrorist regime is as it attacks civilians again and again and again, except that you say, well, Muslim lives don't really matter. That's why you guys don't count the Muslim civilians that Israel murders on a regular basis.

What would they murder you for? The Iranian regime is bad and it is. You just said Israel would murder you. It's just like Saddam's regime. All right, don't talk about each other. Hold on, Ben. Let me finish. Let me finish.

Let me finish. So the North Korean regime is terrible. The Chinese regime runs concentration camps for Ugar Turks. Those Turks are my people. The Russians invaded Ukraine. These are all terrible regimes. That doesn't mean we have to start a war with them.

And it doesn't mean we have to start a war with them. And it doesn't mean that America has to fight Israel's war for it. Well, America isn't fighting it at the moment. We're not fighting. Move on. Fight your own wars. But America is not. Not one dollar, not one truth.

America is not involved in this war at the moment. Ben Ferguson. Yeah, it's amazing he just said that Israel would kill him. I asked him seven, eight times. That's not true. What would they murder you for? What would they murder you for? And I said over and over again, you said that Israel would murder you.

They murder journalists more than any other country. They murdered more journalists than World War I, World War II, Vietnam, and Afghanistan combined. They murdered more journalists than all other conflicts in the world combined. They murder Muslim Americans at 12 of them, and America does not defend American citizens in the occupied territories. All right, Chey, let him speak. Americans all the time, and America never defends us. This is the problem. When you say things that are this egregious, everyone watching around the world is going to look at this

and say, this guy is. an idiot because you didn't answer the question you said that Israel would murder you right now. I said what would they murder you for? Journalists than all other conflicts in the world combined. I'm asking you personally, you said they would murder you now. I'm not going to let up on this. What would they murder you for? You're telling me right now that you think Israel wants to find you and kill you right now where you are? No, no, no. If I go to Israel, you say, you're full of crap.

If I go to Israel, Israel would almost certainly murder. IDF already wrote my name on a bomb. It's not like they're hiding it. And they murder journalists more than any other country. In fact, all the other countries combined. That's a literal fact. And they murder Muslim Americans, 12 of them. And American, by they didn't object under Biden.

We don't object under Trump. Because you can murder American citizens. Only if you're Israel. The terrorist state of Israel is allowed to kill Americans. And what do we have to do? We have to give them another $311 billion. We have to start another war for them like Iraq and spend two trillion dollars?

Why do the American people owe Israel hundreds of billions of dollars? Why do we owe them more wars? All right, let Ben respond. Let me owe them. Anything. Don't talk every each other. Give me a 300 billion back. Let me a 300 billion back.

You owe us. I don't know you. And Ben, you're supposed to be an American, not an Israeli. Look at me and Jack. Me and Jack, you don't agree on anything else. But we agree that we should serve America. I say Americans first, not Israelis. Stop the war.

Let me say this. Look at Madden. Let Ben speak. Number one. Steve Ben and Austin stopped for war. All right. All right. You can ask for war. Ben, let him. Let him. Let Ben speak. Let him speak. Let him speak. Number one, my foreign policy has changed drastically from after 9-11. I don't think we should go into Iraq. Afghanistan, if I could have a redo. I would change what I thought about that. I've said that very clearly for years now on TV.

But no, I said I've changed my foreign policy. When you make mistakes and you see what happens, it's okay to change. It's called growing up, all right? You learn from your mistakes. I'm not in favor of invading America into Iran. So let me say that first, so you put words in mouth. Second thing, I've seen two hostage videos today, one from the guy that's in Iran right now and you. And I don't know why you act like there's a country that is running terrorism in the Middle East, Iran, who's chanting death to Israel. By the way, death to America. They chant death to America too, okay? And why you act like they're not a threat to the Middle East and to American interests over there.

They're not a threat to us. That's why Donald Trump said yesterday. Jack, do you think you're a threat to us? If you come after, yes, I do. I do think Iran's a threat to us because they help kill American soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan. They train the damn terrorists. No, I asked Jack, I ask them. Personally, that I know personally,

I know people that died serving their country in Iraq and Afghanistan. I just went to Fort Bragg and went to where the eight seconds for the names are on on a plaque. I'm not screwing around with this. Do not tell me that Iran did not help you. Ben, I had these debates with you on the Iraq War.

I had these debates with you on the Iraq War. You were 100% wrong then. You're 100% wrong now. You sent American kids to die there on behalf of Israel then. And you want to send American kids to die on behalf of Israel. Let me bring in. Jack, Jack, I disagree with you on everything else. Let me bring in Joe.

Just speak up here. Let me bring in Jack. Jack, Jack, final word to you. Well, certainly they're a threat, but in the sense that they're a threat because the United States is currently sending the USS Nimitz aircraft carrier from the Asia Pacific, from Westpac, over to the Middle East. By the way, this is the first time that China now has more aircraft carriers in the Pacific than the United States, the first time that's ever happened. Now you're going to have those 5,000 sailors on that aircraft carrier, plus the other 5,000 that are on the Carl Vig. and potentially sitting within range of everything that Iran has. This is exactly what I've been talking about.

So the threat to American lives is, and I think it's right there. I think it's what you're saying. It's because America is getting involved in a war that's not ours. Can I ask a question of Jack and Scheng, just quickly, you say it's a war that isn't yours. If you were convinced, let me ask you a hypothetical, that Iran was close to getting a nuclear weapon. You guys always do these hypotheticals, but...

If Iran was close to getting a nuclear weapon, as the UN inspectors say, Let me ask you a direct question. Do you then think, if America was the only country that had the capability to degrade and destroy Iran's nuclear capacity, would it then be an American interest to intervene? So should America go around and blow up all the nuclear sites that aren't American? Should we attack China?

Should we attack Russia? Should we attack France? Should we attack the UK? All of them? Is that your contention? So you would... Should we attack? Okay, so it's a consistent position.

You would permit... You think it's in America's interests? No, you have to be a hypothetical. You're playing this game. You're trying to Kafka trap me right now. No, we didn't say that. You're trying to cough to trap me and you're trying to say, well, if you agreed to this hypothetical that I asked you,

then you must also, no, I'm not playing that game. I'm not playing that game right now. You're saying, in a hypothetical situation, should America attacks someone, to your point, they do not have weaponized nuclear capability or uranium, that is at the point of weaponization at 90%, which they could use for an atomic bomb. They do not have that.

They have 60%. So you're saying, even if they had 90%, which, by the way, doesn't sit with the DNI Gabbard's assessment and the entire assessment of the intelligence agencies that Iran is not currently developing weapons of mass destruction. They're only enriching uranium. So you're saying, oh, well, that's totally fine. You've never even asked me what I think.

You're trying to play this game where you put words about that I have and said about playing that game. I'm not trying to play any game. I've been asking myself the question a lot over the last few days. Because they finally just finished. Once I read the report that Iran had been dissembling and doing it. I'm the same as Matthew. I read that report.

I read that report. And what was crystal clear from that report is that there have been constant lies and obfuscation from the Iranian regime in relation to the nuclear program. From the Israeli regime. Clearly they believed that they were being lied to in their ability to report properly about what was going on. They also believe that uranium enrichment was now at a level where it was quite, likely and possible that Iran could have a full nuclear bomb imminently, you know, weeks, months, whatever that period may be. And in that circumstance, I took a view in a way that I'd be

very critical of the Israeli government for what's going on in Gaza at the moment, but I took a view that if you are Israel right now and you have Iran with the atomic agency saying they are getting perilously close to being able to create a nuclear bomb, that is a time, that is a time where you may decide that is a time to stop them. And that appears to be what they have tried to do. I think diplomacy is possible. I think diplomacy is right. I'm sorry. No, I was asked the question.

This is the same lies that Israel fed us about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. All right. The same hypotheticals. Oh, what if Iraq has weapons of mass destruction? Oh, here's fake intelligence telling you that Iraq has weapons of mass destruction. This is not fake intelligence. This is how Israel lied us into a war before.

And then they always do hypotheticals like, oh, what if the Palestinians say that we don't have a right to exist? No, the Israeli can't. has voted that Palestinians don't have a right to exist. All their hypotheticals are what Israel actually does. Israel actually has a nuke. Israel is the most aggressive country and the most likely to use a nuclear weapon. We have to get out of Israel's control.

Okay. I'm going to leave it there. I've got to leave it there, guys. I've run out of time. I'm sorry. I'm going to have to leave it there. I appreciate you, join. Not one dollar.

We've gone one true. We've gone one over time, but I appreciate you all joining me. Thank you very much. Well, joining me now is Medea Assan, the editor-in-chief at Zateo News. Medi, great to have you back on Uncensored. Last time he came on recently, we reached agreement over what is going on in Gaza. I concurred with your view that it was now crossing almost every line, and wasn't just my view, the view of former Israeli prime ministers, of allies of Israel, and so on.

But we have a separate situation here. And I'm just curious, I've seen what you've been saying publicly about this Israel attack on Iran. If you're Israel, and you see that report from the atomic agency, which appears to suggest that Iran has been lying, obfuscating, covering up, not allowing proper inspections and so on, and now appears to have reached 60% enrichment of uranium, which is the next stage it can reach, where now it can be imminent, it can be within months,

that it could potentially get to nuclear power. Can you at least, without agreeing with it, Can you understand why Israel has felt threatened by that report? So, Piers, thanks for having me back. And I'm glad you started by asking about the IAE report, because I know you brought it up with your panel as well. And I just want your viewers at home to be clear, because you described it accurately a moment ago,

what the report says. I've read the 22-page report came out, May 31st, declassified. But on Friday, I was disappointed to see you tweeting about, you said the report exposes an imminent nuclear threat from Iran, which could justify a preemptive strike. we saw on Thursday night from Israel was not a preemptive strike. It was a preventive strike, which is illegal under international law. It's what George Bush and the neocons claim the Iraq war was against Saddam Hussein, which you and I opposed, rightly so. And that IE report does not expose

an imminent nuclear threat. It says what you just said it says. It says that they haven't been cooperating very well. It says their level of cooperation has been, quote, less than satisfactory. It says some of their technical answers about their program of lacked credibility. It says they've impeded some of the inspectors. It says that they were working on some kind of military program pre-2003, which is what US intelligence has also said. Those are all bad things, peers. You and I can both agree.

Those are bad things. And Iran should not be doing those things. And the IAA board voted to say they're in breach of their obligations. But that's not an imminent nuclear threat. The report does not say Iran poses an imminent nuclear threat. Your tweet was wrong on Friday. Well, I think as I just said, what is his 60% enrichment of uranium, it's the next stage. that somebody who wants to create a nuclear bomb.

Right? So imminent, look, what do I mean by imminent? As I said in the panel, it can be weeks, months, a year, whatever, but they've reached a stage. No, it can't, Pierce. But they have the capability to take it to another stage and create a bomb.

Yes. So let's find more agreement between us. I agree. That is capability, right? They have enough highly enriched uranium to build up to nine bombs, I believe. They have 400 kilograms of uranium. So that is an imminent threat if it's in the wrong hands, right?

We can agree on that. No, it's not. But why not? No, because unfortunately, having a civil nuclear program is totally fine. Having rich uranium is fine. The issue is if you weaponize it and have a weapons program. And Tulsi Gabbard, no friend of radical Islam, Donald Trump's Director of National Intelligence said in March,

that the US intelligence community's consensus view is that Iran is not building a nuclear weapon, does not have a nuclear weapon, has not authorized a nuclear weapons program. The IAEA peers in that report, you must have seen the line in their summary, said there are no credible indications of an ongoing, undeclared, structured nuclear program.

Even the IAA says there's no nuclear weapons program. Their boss, the IAA chief peer, said last week, you cannot attack nuclear facilities in Iran. So, no, it's not an imminent threat. And under international law, peers, this is the key point. If a weapon is a year away, you cannot say we're under imminent threat. That does not give you all right to self-defense. Otherwise, everyone in the world would go around just bombing people.

You and I oppose Russia's invasion of Ukraine. We agree on that, right? Putin claimed that Ukraine would one day attack Russia with NATO support. That's why I'm doing it. That was a bullshit argument. You and I rejected Putin's bullshit argument in Ukraine. You and I've rejected the Israeli bullshit argument now in Gaza. You don't believe what they're saying about Gaza. I don't know why you're believing them on this when you were rightly calling out the bullshit from the UK and the US in 2003 over Iran. Saddam Hussein was not an imminent threat and Iran was not an imminent threat and Israel attacked them illegally

last week. While there were nuclear negotiations going on peers, one last point, if Israel cared about stopping a nuclear weapon. You would go back into a nuclear deal that prevents Iran from a weapon. And guess who they killed on Thursday night? Not just generals, peers. They killed Ali Shamkani, the lead nuclear negotiator who was supposed to be in Uman yesterday with the Americans, and who won on NBC a month ago and said, we're very close to a deal, we're willing to give up highly enriched. But Trump did say, didn't me? Trump did say, but on the deal, Trump said, look, you've got 60 days, right? And Israel attacked on day 61. In other words, they gave Iran. What a load of bullshit.

Come on, peers. That is what Trump said. Well, Trump's a liar. Why were they meeting in Oman on Sunday then? If there were only 60 days, why were the Americans supposed to be meeting yesterday? All I'm saying is, it is a fact, the sequence of events. Hang on, hang on. It's not a fact that Trump said 60 days.

It is a fact he said 60 days. But that's a lie. But that wasn't a 60 days otherwise we bomb you. That was Netanyahu. By the way, let's be clear. I agree. Netanyahu wants this war more than Trump. I agree. I'm just saying the Netanyahu did wait. He did wait till day 61 of Trump's 60 days get a deal done.

No, because why was there a nuclear negotiation scheduled on Sunday between the Americans and the Iranians, which is now not happening? Who benefits from that? Netanyahu? The hawks who want a war. They don't want a deal. Otherwise, you wouldn't kill the... Unless you think the Trump tacitly wants this to happen, which he might well do. Maybe. I mean, I don't try and mind-read Trump. You can. You know him better than me. The man's a liar. He's erratic. He's unhuisher. Who knows? I mean, he claims to be anti-war. Remember all that bullshit? I came on your show last year, Piers. How many times did I hear people telling me bullshit about Trump being anti-war? He went to Michigan and said, I won't get involved in a war in the Middle East. And here we are now. Several hundred people dead in Israel and Iran. Completely preventable conflict, done with Trump's blessing. And as I say, if you're worried about highly enriched uranium, blame Trump, right? He tore up the nuclear deal in 2018, peers. In 2018, Iran was enriching uranium at what percentage? And the IEA said, yet we verify it. We have no complaints. We verify that Iran is in accordance with this deal. And Trump tore it up.

And today, 60% highly enriched uranium, 400 kilograms. That's on Donald Trump. We had the JCPOA. We had Obama's nuclear deal. He tore it up. Aren't you just, if you don't mind me saying, aren't you just explaining very articulately why Israelists got so twitchy about this?

Gone from 3% to 60. As you said, that's not a small. But who did that? Right? But hold on, that's a self-for-prolaply. You blame me who you like, but the way you described that sounded to me like you were presenting a fast-moving imminent threat.

No, no. Okay, it's a good question. Let me answer it. No, what I was presenting was that there was a deal that worked. Trump and the Israelis tore up the deal that worked. Now Iran is definitely, you and I have already agreed, that they have potential to be closer to a bomb today than they were in 2018.

So the solution is not then to go to war and increase the chances of Iran rushing for a bomb. The solution is to go back into a deal to negotiate an agreement. Pierce, just for your viewers, there are only two ways. Every military expert agrees, every US general agrees. There's only two ways to stop Iran from having a nuclear bomb. Number one is to invade and occupy the country

and destroy every facility yourself. Number two is to have an agreement in which Iran agrees to stop enriching uranium at 60% or 90%. Right? Those are the two options. Actually, I don't agree with that. I don't agree. There's actually a third option because the ground... What is it?

Or the third option is it doing exactly what Israel is doing now, which is using air power. No. Controlling the skies over Tehran and using intelligence gathered by Mossad apparently, reportedly, and using specific intelligence to target specific commanders, scientists and nuclear sites. I mean, that's the third option. Well, that's not a third option because it doesn't stop the nuclear program. All it does is delay it.

But if you know who agrees with any military people, be honest, be honest, many. Have you spoken to any military? I've got two former British Army colonels in my family. I ran this past them earlier. Both of them thought this was justified, right? Who were the military commanders you've talked to who do not think this is justified? Admiral Mike McMullen, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

under George W. Bush, there's no way you can get rid of Iranian nuclear program without boots on the ground. And by the way, you know who said on Friday? The Israel's own national security advisor said on Friday, there is no kinetic solution to this. Air power cannot do this, right? Because some of their facilities are underground,

because scientists who killed can be replaced. You cannot end Iran. nuclear program via bombing. And by the way, Israel tried this before in 1981. They always hold it up as some great example. They bombed Saddam's nuclear facility in Osirak. Everyone who studied that since, nuclear scientists, weapons experts say that actually that didn't delay Saddam's bomb. It accelerated Saddam's interest in nuclear weapons. He actually launched a covert nuclear program at another site over the next nine years till of obviously the Iraq invasion of Kuwait. Right. So put yourself, peers, you asked me a question at the beginning. It was a great

question. Put yourself in Israel's shoes. We should always have empathy for whoever it is, enemies allies. Let me ask a question back to you. Put yourself in the shoes of an Iranian official sitting in Tehran today who looks at a map of the region and sees Israel with nukes, Russia with nukes, Pakistan with nukes, India with nukes, nuclear-armed America next door in Iraq. Wouldn't you want nuclear weapons? I'm against nukes. Yeah, but if you're in that regime, if you look at... But Medi, you wouldn't dispute. Would you not think it's rational to have news? My response would be this. You wouldn't

dispute that Iran's tentacles had been fueling for a long period of time, Hamas, Houthis, Hezbollah, and I presume you wouldn't also dispute that the tactical attack on Hezbollah through the pages, 3,000 of them targeted a very precise way, that that has led to Hezbollah basically throwing a towel in and say, we're not going to get engaged in this, in this war with Iran, which is a very significant moment in this whole war, I would argue. If your question is, has Israel degraded Iran supports abroad its proxies? 100%. But that's irrelevant to the rightness or wrongness of this. I'm asking you to put yourself in the position of the Iranian government.

Right? So that's why I think that Israel has a right. Well, let's not get, well, as you've agreed, Israel's doing much of the killing right now. But let me just ask you this. Again, Ukraine gave up nukes, got invaded. Saddam Hussein gave up nukes, got invaded and executed. Gaddafi gave up chemical weapons got invaded, raped and killed. Again, if you're the Iranians, are you not looking at us thinking,

this means we need nukes? I would rather not give them an incentive to go get nuclear weapons. I'm anti-nuclear weapons for anyone. So I don't want Iran to have nukes. But the best way for Iran not to have nukes is not to attack them, that makes countries want to have nukes more. It's just rational to go, oh, the countries who have nukes like North Korea, they don't get invaded.

So why give them an incentive to get more nukes? Why not actually have a weapons of mass destruction-free region? You know which country does have nukes in the Middle East? Israel, in violation of UN Security Council resolutions. You know which country doesn't allow IAA inspectors into the country? Israel. You know which country hasn't signed the NPT, unlike Iran? Israel.

We should talk about Israel's nuclear weapons, which actually incentivize others in the regions, not just Israel, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, to think about nuclear weapons of their own. I'd rather not have more nukes in the Middle East with anyone. Medea Hassan. Great to have you back on our sensor. Thank you very much. Peers Morgan Unsensit is proudly independent.

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