Piers Morgan Uncensored - Trump's Executive Orders & Pardons With Dave Rubin, Emily Maitlis & Harry Sisson

Episode Date: January 21, 2025

Donald Trump’s work as the 47th president of the United States has just begun, and it’s fair to say that he’s hit the ground running. He has already signed a slew of executive orders on issues including the definition of a woman, the southern border crisis and aid to foreign countries. He has also pardoned around 1,500 people convicted in relation to the January 6th Capitol riots. His supporters are walking on air, as the Democrats can only lick their wounds. For a prognosis of what Trump’s first days, weeks and months of his second term will bring, Piers Morgan is joined on Uncensored by host of 'The Rubin Report' Dave Rubin, co-host of 'Verdict with Ted Cruz' Ben Ferguson, TikTok Democrat Influencer Harry Sisson, philosopher and former independent presidential candidate Dr Cornel West and journalist Emily Maitlis. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I was saved by God to make America great again. We will stand bravely. We will live proudly. And nothing will stand in our way because we are Americans. The future is ours. And our golden age has just begun. I think that was Donald Trump's single best speech ever. He's still the same gangster with neo-fascist sensibilities than he was before.

It certainly wasn't particularly. gracious, he gave us a shopping list of everything that he wants to get done. There's going to be up to 200 executive orders unleashed, right? I'm just genuinely curious which ones you have a big problem with. Would you contest the fact there is

a crisis on a southern border? I definitely think that there's a problem at the border, but it's just interesting that Donald Trump is declaring a national emergency on this. When you have an allegiance to profit making in greed, low, and behold, the spiritual decay becomes more manifest. Melania Trump, is she getting undercredited?

I think she's going to bring elegance and decency back. That's in stark contrast to Jill Biden. She's the one really upset. She's giving up power. Hush Hobbit for just a moment. Oh, yeah. Look at Dave Rubin doubling down on being wrong and lying. I thought you were retiring, Dave.

Well, the first days of Donald Trump's second term will be remembered for MAGA shock therapy. After 75 days in waiting, the Trump team wants a message to be promises made, promises kept, and delivered at warp speed. A reprieve for TikTok, pardons for January 6, rioters, the abolition of DEI and gender ideology across the federal government, a national emergency declaration at the US-Mexico border, and rapid moves to clamp down on illegal immigrants,

including an enter-birthright citizenship. As the 45th president becomes the 47th, what are America's hopes and fears for Trump's first 100 days? To debate this, I'm joined by the host of the Rubin Report, an author of Don't Burn This Country, surviving and thriving in our woke dystopia, Dave Rubin. The co-host of Verdict with Ted Cruz, Ben Ferguson,

the TikTok influencer Harry Sisson, whose job has just been saved by Donald Trump, philosopher and former independent presidential candidate, Dr Cornel West. Well, welcome to all of you, a stellar panel, I'm delighted to say. Dave Rubin, let me start with you. Watching Donald Trump's inaugural address there, two things struck me. One, it was about half as long as his first one,

very disciplined, very focused, hid all what he would call his greatest hits from his rallies. It looked to me like a guy who understands what he has to do second time round is absolutely deliver on promise. And if he does, his legacy could be extremely good. I also got a sense of somebody who genuinely believes it when he says he feels like he's got another chance after the assassination attempt. That bit of humanity in the speech was something he said to me a week after he got shot,

that he just feels there was a reason why he got spared and that he thinks it's to make America great again, and that's his great calling and purpose. What did you feel about those two things? Yeah, I think that's quite a good analysis, and I think that was Donald Trump's single best speech ever. We have all heard dozens, if not hundreds of them. That was the most focused on-point speech,

and he really did two things there. It obviously was about the resilience and the resurgence of America and laying out this golden age that I really do think is a comment, and I think there's going to be change and change really, really fast, and just returning to a lot of the sanity that we have forgotten about. I mean, just for a president to have to get up there and say, men or men and women are women is kind of crazy, but that's how close to the precipice of insanity we got,

but also fixing things at the border and foreign policy and economically and et cetera. But the other part that I really like because it was necessary was that much of the speech, was directed completely at the people who were behind his left shoulder. And I'm talking about obviously Joe Biden and Kamala Harris and the other former presidents and some of those people because he basically said, you guys almost handed the keys to the kingdom away. You almost ruined the most precious, beautiful system of governance in the history of the

world. And I think it was important to say that this wasn't a speech of retribution, but it was important to acknowledge these guys have messed up an awful lot. day is over, a new day is here, and Donald Trump is going to be a president for the people. And I also agree with what you said about his newfound, if you want to call it faith, that's just fine. But I think he is on a mission right now, and it's very exciting. I can tell you being here in D.C. right now, there are smiles on virtually every face in this city right now. Believe it or not, here in D.C. Well, there's no smile on Cornell Westface.

Cornell, it's a golden age. The future is coming. America's been trampled into the ground by the Democrats, but the Savior is here and all is going to be great. Do you share that optimism? Well, I'm a prisoner of hope, but for those of us who are committed to some deep conception of truth and love and justice, especially for poor and working people, not just here, but around the world, Africa, Gaza, Haiti, legacy of Monteluther King Jr. is one of what? Unarmed truth.

Donald Trump? You know, he's my brother. I'm a Christian, but he promotes armed lies and unconditional hubris. Where was the focus on poor people? Where was the acknowledgement of the genocide? Where was the acknowledgement of working people, 62% living paycheck to paycheck? But he says prosperity, yes, we want prosperity. Will it be fairly distributed?

We had the oligarch sitting right next to him. He, there speaking into his ear, and Martin Luther King Jr. says, wait a minute, when I died, I was dealing with oligarchs. When I died, I was dealing with increasing deregulated markets that makes it different for working people of gain access to fair wages. So it's a sad day for me, but I smile anyway because I believe in the possibility of human beings. And as a Christian, you know, I pray for Trump. I pray for his family. but I also recognize that he's still the same gangster with neo-fascist sensibilities that he was before and I'm going to fight him.

I love my enemies, but I'll be fighting him every fiber of my being. Would you say that it's the behavior of a gangster, Cornell, to give preemptive pardons to rule your family and your mates and... Bingo. I mean, I'm just... That's what gangsters do in, Alex.

How does that sit with your... Absolutely. How does that sit with your very powerful homily? The Democrats have their own gangsters, brother. They've got their own genocide promoters and so forth. And not only that, there's a gangster each and every one of us. The question is whether we're willing to push it back and allow the best of us. That's the legacy of Martin King, but not just King.

That's the legacy of Jesus of Nazareth, my brother. Okay. Let me bring Ben Ferguson in here. I mean, I do think the best thing that could possibly have happened for Republicans is not just, just that Trump obviously got elected again and in such overwhelming style, especially winning the popular vote, which kind of killed all arguments stone dead. But also that he did it in a way, and this was clear from the speech,

which resonated with so many people that Cornell doesn't seem to think were remotely impacted or affected by this. Because he had a lot of poor Americans queuing up to vote for him, actually, who raced to the ballot box because in Trump they saw something. who does care about them. I don't agree with Cornell there. What did you feel? With all due respect, Cornell, I don't think you were listening because the people in this country that are living paycheck to paycheck, they voted in overwhelming numbers for Donald Trump. Those that were concerned about their kids' future, and every time they pull up to a gas pump,

they were having a hard time figuring out how they're going to choose between filling up a full tank or getting a full basket of groceries. They voted for Donald Trump. This election was proof that the American people were left behind by Joe Biden, in the Biden crime family and those that he was going to have to pardon. They cared more about going after their political opponents than they did about the American people that were suffering. And if you listen to what Donald Trump said, he was clearly speaking to those living paycheck to paycheck.

And he clearly was saying, I understand that there's these people that tried to destroy me and ruin my life. But that's not why I'm here. God spared my life to come back in and to say, I am going to be your spokesperson. He said it last night in his campaign. rally, his basically his last event of his life, where he was sitting there saying, saying, I am here for you, not for me. I think he's a different man than he was in 2016.

I think anyone that watched that speech and listened to it felt hope today. I think if you're an American that's struggling, a single mom that's struggling today, someone who's kids in a failing school in my hometown, for example, of Memphis, Tennessee, where Martin Luther King was gunned down on this MLK day, there are the majority of the schools there are failing. And what is Donald Trump said? we have to do better. We have to do better for the Hispanic American community, the African American community. We have to give you safer neighborhoods,

safer streets, and a secure border. And if you're looking at that president, Donald Trump of 2025 is very different than Donald Trump of 2016 and 17 and 18 and 19. This is going to be a different administration. Yeah, I think that's highly likely. But Harry says, and I can see you grimacing and pulling all sorts of faces there.

And look, you've been... Good to see you too, Pierre. Great to see you. Always good to have your own sense that even though you've been wrong spectacularly about almost every single thing you've said in the last calendar year. But what glass like as Cornell would say, I forgive you, my brother, it's fine, for this being so wrong the entire time. But I do want to play you a clip from December 2020 when Joe Biden was asked by Jake Tapper at CNN about rumors that Donald Trump might issue some preemptive pardons before he left office. President Trump is reportedly considering a wave of preemptive pardons. Does this concern you? All these preemptive pardons?

Well, it concerns me in terms of what kind of precedent sets and how the rest of the world looks at us as a nation of laws and justice. You're not going to see in our administration that kind of approach to pardons. nor are you going to see in our administration the approach to making policy by tweets. You know, it's just going to be a totally different way in which we approach the justice system. Harry, here's your chance to redeem yourself by just conceding that when Joe Biden said that, he was telling an absolute blatant lie, because he's now done preemptive pardons for just about anybody he can think of. Do you accept that your main weapon against Trump has always been his alleged lack of veracity, as you

put it. Do you accept now that that's gone? Because actually Biden himself just told endless porkies about stuff like preemptive pardons. It's interesting, Pierce, that you're arguing for the view that somebody's opinion on something can't change if circumstances change.

So when President Biden made that claim, there was no threat toward Donald Trump or his family. And look at these guys, these losers laughing over here. But with Donald Trump appointing Cash Patel to the FBI who said he wants to go, excuse me, be quiet. Wanting to appoint Cash Patel to the the FBI who said he wants to go after his political opponents. Donald Trump, who said he wants

to appoint a special counsel to go after Biden's family. Cash Vitell has a list of people, a list of people that he wants to go after and prosecute you're asking me, wait, why did Biden do this? Why did he pardon his family? Maybe because the Trump, DOJ and Trump's administration is promising to come after them. I'm perfectly fine with Joe Biden doing that, given the unjust attack that they've suffered for the past four years as the Biden family. And I also just want to finish with one thing. I don't know why losers like Dave Rubin are up here because four years ago, he said, if Biden served a full term, he'll retire. So I wonder, I wonder why Dave Rubin hasn't retired yet when he said four years ago he'd do so if Biden served a full term. So go along, David and

hush. Hush, Hush, Hobbit for just a moment. Oh, oh, yeah. Look at Dave Rubin doubling down on being wrong and lying. I thought you were retiring, Dave. What happened? I said that, I said that in 2019, to illustrate, to illustrate the point back in 2019 that everyone knew, mainstream media was hiding, which was that he was mentally compromised five years ago. So you lie. He has not, thank you for admitting that you lied about retiring. If you think he's really been president or making the decisions, Harry, you've been wrong about everything.

It's not even worth addressing you. But let me, if I can make a point about the oligarch. It's not worth talking to liars like you who say you're going to retire and then you don't. All right. If I can make a point about referencing what Cornell said about the oligarchs, you know, it's, I think, a little bit of low resolution thinking to look at the people standing behind Donald Trump and say, oh, they're oligarchs. These are job creators. Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos and some of those other people are now bringing Zuckerberg in and all of these people,

whether you like them or not, whether you think everything they've done is good or not or anything else. These are innovators. These are people who have revolutionized industries and will continue to do so. They've created more jobs than any of us have or any of us all combined. So I don't think that just saying, oh, there's these rich, successful people up there. It's not inherently bad. It's actually quite good because now they are going to help Donald Trump unleash the American economy. Well, yeah. And also, look, I mean, in relation to something like Elon Trump, grow up. Well, Harry, in relation to something like, you know, Russian funding was keeping Dave a float for a while.

Harry, time out. Don't get personal. Yeah, also not true. But when you talk about someone like personal fears, it's just bad. Harry, I am actually trying to moderate a debate here. When Elon Musk, for example, if you take him, I mean, I couldn't think of a more classic American immigrant success story than a guy who comes to America, he creates some of the biggest, most successful companies in the history of planet Earth, almost all of which are specifically designed to help planet Earth,

whether it's Tesla with green energy cars or Neurrelink or SpaceX or whatever it may be. The idea that anyone like you would have a few, years ago said there was inherently a big problem with somebody like Elon Musk, given what he's done for America, would it be unthinkable. And yet now you do because now he supports Donald Trump. Oh, no, no, hold on. I have no problem with any of Elon Musk. I'll let Cornell answer that as you. Cornell? No, the point is this, though we're talking about a system. Carnegie came from Scotland with Harley a dime and became a multi, multi-millionaire. He was an oligarch during the gilded age.

He was a robber baron. He had a system in which he was able to ascend to the top, but it was predicated on capital processes such that working people had tremendous difficulty, gaining assets to wages, and it was predicated on tremendous power over politicians. Now, does Elaine, does must have tremendous influence over politicians? Does Bezos and others? Of course they do. And what's interesting about this is, if Brother Trump had lost, he would have said the system is rigged.

Both of the candidates with gangster elements in both parties were tied to billions of dollars. 90 million fellow Americans decided what, not to vote at all. So I'm not denying that working class Americans would vote for Trump because if the only alternative is a milk toast Biden, then what other choice do you have? Many of those folks have voted for Bernie Sanders have voted for Obama. The system itself is so corrupt. That's what we have to come to terms with. Dave.

I think people are so over this type of thinking. There are so many millions of people in America who are so unbelievably excited right now. And we are about to see an 80s-style revolution and reignition of the American dream. I think we are going to see booms in every industry across the country. From entertainment to manufacturing, he talked about cars again today in automobile. we are going to see people dream again. You know, we have been in a four-year lull. We've been in a mini-depression as a country

because we ushered in all of the worst socialist ideas. I hate to tell Cornell, but capitalism is the best system out there to free the people. And we are going to usher in capitalism. We're going to deregulate. Biden was absolutely a socialist. And oligarchy is not free markets.

Olegant markets and not free markets at all. Biden's no socialist. There's no socialism. He's a communist. He's a Marxist. He has all three. When you go after, when you go after political opponents and you raid their homes, Cornell, that is what socialist, Marxists, and communists do.

When you have to give out partings to your entire family. That's authoritarianism. When you have to get, I said it's different elements. You have socialism, communism, Marxism. That is the Democratic Party right now. But the part that I am truly shocked that the two of you still don't understand is why Donald Trump left in 2020 and a lot of people didn't like him. And he came back now and people absolutely love him. And what you're missing and part of me is shocked and part of me is glad that you're

missing it because it means you guys don't know how to fight him is that Donald Trump understood that there were people that were hurting in this country and they were hurting so bad because of the policies that put Hunter Biden and James Biden and the Biden family ahead of the American people. When they weaponize, again, if that's what you see, this is one. why you lost. Because what you don't understand is when you weaponize when you weaponize the government the way that he did, when you go out there in the very last thing that you'll be remembered for is taking your criminal actions and covering them for your family. The last thing Joe Biden ever did in politics was give pardons to his criminal family members Fauci and others on January

6th. The reason why he lost. The reason why Harris lost is because they didn't give a crap about the American people. And it was so clear they didn't at the end. And that is exactly why you lost. And if you guys aren't paying attention to that, you're going to keep losing. I'm thankful for that. But if you don't understand, this is how you lost

America. I'm not here to defend Biden. I'm not defending Harris. I'm not defending the Democratic Party. I agree with elements of what you said. I just told you that one of the reasons why Trump won is because he poses as if he's a kind of populist,

of the milk toast neoliberal democratic party that didn't speak to working people, didn't speak to poor people, wars around the world, genocide in Gaza. I'm not a defender of a decrepit. Cornell, Cornell. Don't put me in that space. All right, but Cornell, I don't. I can tell the truth about the Republican Party and their greed. Cornell. I do need to have one thing clarified. What is the milk toast reference?

What's milk toast? spineless, no backbone, no principle, lacking in integrity and character. But did you vote for him? That's true for both parties. That's all I'm saying. Did you vote? No, it's a great phrase. I just haven't heard it before.

Integrity, honesty, decency, character. You don't see it in Trump. Cornell. Oh, yeah, you do. You don't see any of the part in trust. That's all I'm saying. Cornell. We just disagree on that.

We just did. But we'll see. Okay. I want to ask Harry. Okay. I want to ask Harry this. Did he vote for Joe Biden? Let me ask Harry this question.

Harry Sisson. There's going to be... Did you say what? Hang on. Hang on, guys. I'm going to Harry. Harry, there's going to be an executive order. I'm going to vote for myself.

Cornell, time out. I'm going to Harry for a question. Okay, okay. Here's my question for Harry. There's going to be up to 200 executive orders unleashed, right? Many have already been signaled. Many have already been announced. Some are in their speech, some afterwards.

We know what a lot of these things are going to be, Harry. I'm just curious, genuinely. curious which ones you have a big problem with, right? For example, would you contest the fact there is a crisis on a southern border? No, I definitely think that there's a problem at the border, but it's just interesting that Donald Trump

is declaring a national emergency on this, given the fact that the numbers right now at the border are similar or even lower than they were under Donald Trump's administration. Well, the reason he's done that is because nearly 10 million well, hang on, Harry. Harry, the reason is that nearly 10 million illegal immigrants got into a

on the southern border in the last four years. That's an emergency. Actually, that's not true. The majority of people have come in in recent years have come in through asylum, meaning that they are legal. You can keep saying yes, it is all you want. You just don't know what you're talking about. The majority of people come in have come in through asylum,

meaning that they're legal immigrants. So how many illegal immigrants came in? Can you just be quiet? Can you just be quiet? Can you just be quiet? How many came in? Just stop talking. Just stop.

Nobody needs to interview. No, I want to know how many you think came in illegal. The overall majority of people come in through asylum. Now, Joe Biden tried to rewrite. and he came in illegally. What is your number? For people to claim asylum improperly, and Republicans like Donald Trump

blocked the bill. So I'm just, it's fascinating to me that this is Donald Trump's day one executive order. And it's also for this Ferguson guy over here. It's not here. Can you be quiet for five seconds? Can you just agree with me, Harry? Harry, to be fair, Harry, to be, just to remind you,

just remind you, the first thing you did was agree with me, there's a crisis on the southern border. So why wouldn't you agree that there should be an emergency order? Well, I'm just curious as to the emergency is. I think there's a crisis of the law. The law is lacking. I would like to see Donald Trump actually try to rewrite the asylum law. So you think there's a crisis, but he shouldn't do anything about it. All right. Do you think the cartel gangs should be designated terrorist groups?

Yes or no? No problem. No problem with that. Great. Okay. Wait, can I can I take? No, no. Hang on. Do you think America has, do you think there should be more than two genders in America? Yeah, I don't know what that executive order means. I don't know what president declaring it means there are two genders man and female do you disagree with how many genders are yeah come on little guy how many genders are again these guys don't know what they're talking about so they won't be how many genders are there how many genders are there how many genders are there how many genders are there what's the league i'm gonna use joe biden's answers at least two at least two that satisfies how many more other than male female that's a tic-tock there's there's a ticot answer there's at least two

well no hang on there's male and female like human brain ronald trump says this male and female there are two Okay, Dave, Rush and Rubin. How many more are there after male and female, Harry? There's at least two. Now, anyway, let me get back to what. We're doing at least two. What are the other ones? There's at least two.

Harry, let's try it this way. You're a female. What is the other gender? It's so funny how these, it's so funny how these conservatives just get time to lie on this show. But when I'm speaking, they'll all interrupt and there's no problem. You've just been asked a very simple question, Harry. How many genders are? How many genders are?

How many genders are? If there are at least two genders, how much? If there are at least two genders, how many more are there than male and female? Pierce, you ask me about Donald Trump's executive order. I'm trying to explain how legally it makes absolutely no sense and it's going to get sued in court. Then we go into culture wars with Dave Rubin and this Ferguson guy asking how many genders are there. I'm trying to answer your question. They're screaming their faces on you.

I'm asking you. Oh, God, this child. I'm asking you, Harry, how many genders are there? Harry, I've answered your question. Harry, how many genders are there? Two. There are at least two. Two or at least two? 100. Hang on, Ben.

Hang on, Ben. I've got this. More or less than 100. Can I answer the question? Yes, Cohnel. Can I answer the question? Can I answer the question? Yes, seven.

Yes. Help him out, Cornell. That according, according to Shakespeare, all of us are endrogynous. There are men and there are women. There are different size of human beings all made in the image of a God that has a dignity and a sanctity. And if you're going to try to start demonizing precious trans folk, then I'm gonna be fighting.

But it's not, but that, I agree with them. I agree with them. I agree, I agree. Don't demonet transcripts. This is all the left has left. It's really extra. I'm gonna say, I've got to say the torturous answer. We got a whole lack.

I think when you're reduced to quoting Shakespeare. Cornel, when you reduce to quoting Shakespeare about gender. It's going to be humanistic across the pool. Look at this court member out there with so many maga hat. It's weird. I just showed why we won, bro. Nobody's demonized or a reason and how many genders there are. Playing girls in girls' stories.

Winning at the moment doesn't mean that you're right, brother. Just because you won at the moment doesn't mean that you're right? You know that. You know that from history. Hey, Cordell, please. How many trans athletes are in college sports? Does anybody know? If there's one biological male beating a girl in a sport, it's one too many.

This guy has absolutely no idea what he's talking about. Can we get back to the executive orders I disagree with by any chance? Yeah, sure. But what about that one? I can't work out. Two genders. Let's go back to that. Well, hang, I can't work out whether you agree or disagree.

Donald Trump says specifically, Harry, there are two genders, male and female, that's it. You think there are at least two, which normally means there are more than two. So what are the others? Interpret as you will, but I think that executive order is stupid. Tell me, what are the others? I'm telling you, I've given you my answer. What are the other? You can interpret that as you really.

What are the other genders? With interpretations here, I'm telling you my answer is at least two. Now, on the legitimacy of the executive order, it makes you sense, what's legal mechanism for enforcement. Harry, that's what I'm asking. I hate TikTok babies. Harry, when you say there are at least two genders. Be quiet. Ted Cruz's buddy over here with the co-lover needs to be quiet. Is Pierce talking to you?

I simply want to know, Harry. You said you wanted to go back to the list of executive orders, whether you agreed or not. You say there are... My answer doesn't change. No, but your answer doesn't make any sense. What do you mean? It's stupid. It doesn't make any sense.

Pears, peers, you can think my answer doesn't make any sense. You're going to ask me the question again. We're going to go back and forth. No, I'd like you to explain what you. It makes no sense. No, I'm asking you what you mean by at least. two genders. I'm saying at least two. What does that mean? In Turk,

at least, there are, what do you, what's the, I'm not sure what you're confused about. Does that mean there are more than two or there's at a minimum? There's at a minimum two. This is exactly why the Democrats on these issues got themselves so much difficulties. We literally cannot explain to that. Trump is a conviction. If there's any day not to talk to peers,

all right, don't all shout. I want Dave Rubin to respond. Dave Rubin, this to me is exactly why the Democrats lost the plot. They They can't even explain what they mean when they say this crap. Look, Harry perfectly exemplifies everything wrong with the modern left and the Democrat Party. He can't tell you how many genders there are, and then all he can do is hurl insults. That's exactly what the Democrats and the media machine has done for you are a child. Is the hypocrisy not an insult?

You're a child. How old are you 12? Is the hypocrisy not astounding? Do you feel no shame when you say something like that? Listen. Is hypocrisy not absolutely astounding, Dave? Be quiet. Get a job, kid.

Listen. Listen, this is exactly this smug, nonsensical drivel is what everyone hates. All the hypocrisy is astounding. Pierce, if you may remember, what was it, a few months ago, I think it was a day before Joe Biden stepped down when Harry and I were on the panel. And he was saying how brilliantly sharp and never sharper. Oh, my God, his brain is so great. Joe Biden is the best. And then the next day he gets the talking points from the DNC.

And he said, yes, they pay these people. It's as simple as that. Russia pays conservative commentators. Russia pays conservative commentators. All right, let me ask you, I want to bring Cornell back. I want to bring Cornell back. I want to bring Cornell back. I want to bring Cornell back. Cornell, this whole idea of DEI,

diversity, equity, inclusion. Trump is on the rampage about this. And I sort of feel he's right. I feel like it went way too far to the extent that mediocrity started to be pushed forward above meritocracy. Do you agree with that? Well, you see, I would never want to be obsessed with DEI. The spirit of Martin Luther King, Jr., which is not being manifested in our conversation,

which is one of openness, sensitivity, recognizing people can agree and agree to disagree and recognizing all of us are cracked vessels. And DEI began because of the vicious legacy of white supremacy in America, where you had 100 years of black people enslaved. and another 100 years of Jim and Jane Crow. Now, does everybody on this screen agree that slavery and Jim Crow are evil? Yes. Can we get an agreement on that?

Of course, but America was not a hard on the country premises nation. So we had to do something about it. We had to do something about it. What that meant was, it was already some mediocrity in the system before the black folk and brown folk and others came in. It's called white male mediocrity. That had been part and parcel. So there was white male excellence too.

There was white male mediocrity. And the question became broadening the pool to make sure you had merit and those who deserved assets. What happened, when you talk about the social engineering... I can relate with that. I'm not a social engineer. I want fairness. All right.

Don't talk over each other. Across the board. I don't want rhetoric. I want fairness across the board. Let me bring in Ben. Let me bring in Ben to us. My question, I mean, I don't just... I don't dispute a lot of what Cornell just said, Ben, other than it wasn't really...

Let me say this. Well, hang on, let me just make the point. I want to make the point. It wasn't really the answer to my question, which was, has the pendulum of DEI swung too far where actually the same problem that Cornell identified rightly about what was going on in the slavery years, completely right to say that? But has it gone too far now as a corrective tool where actually mediocrity has surpassed meritocracy? and who does that help when that happens?

I think nobody. I would say based on what we just saw out of the Biden administration and leadership, the answer is yes, but I go back to Martin Luther King's dream. If you look at Martin Luther King's dream, his dream was not to have people succeed or fail based on the color of their skin.

It was to choose the best regardless of their skin color. And that was the dream he talked about that people seemed to have forgotten. It was a dream he talked about in Memphis, my hometown, the day he was assassinated, he talked about the day before. And what his dream was was not to have a pie that is, okay, how many transgender people do you have in the pie or gay or lesbian or black or white or Hispanic and have a kumbaya pie? His goal was that you never judge someone based on the color of their skin.

His goal was to say, the best should lead, the best should succeed. It should be barrett-based. It should not be based on if you're black, white, Hispanic. gay, lesbian. I don't even think you could have imagined transgenderism the way we have it now. And that is what you're missing here, is that what Donald Trump is saying is, give me the best and the brightest. Don't give me some kumaya pie that is a mandate for 17 transgendered and 17 gay and 17 straight and 17 black and 17 white and make up 100 people. He's saying, give me the best and the brightest, regardless of any of that. That was Martin Luther King's

dream that he had for this country. And when you do DEI, the way that the left has done it, you're saying, no, no, no, we only want these certain things, first and foremost. And everyone else shut up and sit down. That is not the American dream that Martin Luther King had. Yeah. I mean, Harry Sissons, how can you disagree with that in all good conscience?

I don't even know what the hell he just said. He just ranted for like two minutes about absolutely nothing. Yeah, no, he just ran to three minutes about absolutely nothing about a bunch of nonsense. Look, look, he wants to, he wants to, you want to. wants to bring up MLK in his dream and, you know, the idea that he supports Donald Trump while simultaneously sporting MLK is laughable. You know, I think, you know, we need to have opportunity for everybody. How is that laughable?

How is that laughable? Just, just, I'll explain it if you just stop talking. Nobody needs to hear you speak 24-7. I guarantee it. So, you know, Donald, it's just ironic that he supports Donald Trump and MLK because, you know, a lot of Donald Trump's policies are directly hurting a lot of the people that MLK advocated for. Even if you're talking about working-class American, I'm happy to tell you, again, if you would stop talking. Working class Americans, like with tariffs, for example,

MLK spoke extensively about helping middle class Americans come up through the ranks. With these tariffs, it's just going to raise costs for everybody. All these folks that have been explained about high prices for four years. Which tariffs? You know, 25% tariffs on Canada where we get a bunch of our lumber and our oil, for example, that'll make everything more expensive. And 10% more tariffs on Trump and 25% tariffs on Mexico. My God, this stuff is going to use its leverage.

Every major economists agrees that this stuff is going to raise prices. So when you're saying, oh, I support MLK and I support Donald Trump, what was said today in the hypocrisy of yourself. And also have some self-control, have some self-control to not interrupt people all the time. If you look at what you just said today, what you don't understand is it's called leverage.

And if you look at the markets today, they're responding to the idea that there's not going to be a 25% tariff on oil and liquid natural gas coming out of Canada. It's also called leverage. He understood how the government works and he gets into president before, before he took office. He was not implemented anything that you used. just described.

Oh, so wait, is Donald Trump lying? He's not implemented any of it. Is Donald Trump lying? Is Donald Trump lying about putting in tariffs then? Look, I didn't know. Well, Harry, let me jump in. Let me jump in. Let me jump in.

Harry, Harry, if you read a book called the Art of the Deal, which I recommend you read is very entertaining. The art of the deal actually involves how, knowing how to leverage leverage. It's a key part of doing business is that you don't always, you don't always show your hand off the top, But we're a bit too much bro-energy raging.

We'll have a little break for the bros for a couple of minutes. We're going to bring in Emily Maitliss from the newscaster's podcast because the president's relationship with the traditional media, the enemy of the people, as he sometimes puts it, already appears to be changing. Major networks are notably shifting from dictator to diplomacy. Emily, I suspect, might not be so easily won over and joins me now. We've got a clip of her here talking about Trump.

Donald Trump talked about the eating cats and dogs. Half of America was just thinking, this is about shit. I can't believe what he's saying. This is going to be the end of him. Stop swearing. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. So, Emily, you're in D.C. What I've been really struck by with Trump's win this time, and I felt it for a while is the complete lack of the same resistance

that existed eight years ago. No great marches. great protests, the media much more supine, much more respectful now to the reality and so on, which I suspect in turn will bring the best out of Trump, not the worst, because he's by nature a pugilist. But how do you feel about it? Are you sensing that as well? Yeah, I am, completely. And Washington feels very odd this time, partly, obviously, because the whole ceremony moved indoors, the rotunda, the streets are really empty, the mall was completely empty. And and I guess a lot of people who'd kind of come to see him because of the cold just stayed indoors.

There was a protest last night, but it wasn't huge. And I remember the morning after inauguration day, the morning after was a Saturday. And the Women's March basically took over the whole of D.C. And we reckon there must have been a million people on the streets then. I don't think we're going to see that again. And partly I think it's just a fact of novelty. You know, we're sort of all. feeling the same muscle memory maybe of eight years ago. But you don't have George Bush, you know,

standing there saying, what all, what is all this? You know, bat shit talk. Because we're slightly more used to it. We know what Trump looks and sounds like. We know what he wants to do. And the American Carnage speech, even, of eight years ago, I thought was pretty much echoed today. I mean, I didn't find it any more moving or any less moving. It certainly wasn't particularly gracious, but it kind of did what it said. You know, he gave us a shopping list of everything that he wants to get done. And I think we're just more used to it now. So maybe that's why.

I mean, maybe that's why people are kind of not pushing back. Maybe it's also because the win this time was so broad. You know, it wasn't insoluble in the sense that I don't think the Democrats could reverse it in four years' time. But it was broad. It was both houses. It was the popular vote, something that Trump took time out in his inaugural speech to tell us. And I think that is a real source of pride for him, that nobody can start sort of digging into that and saying, well, he didn't win theirs or he didn't win that.

And I think there is more acceptance maybe because of that. Yeah, I mean, I also think that it's really interesting to see all the people as part of his broligarchy. If you look at people like Elon Musk, RFK Jr., Tulsi Gabbard, Joe Rogan, all these people, they were all on the other side. They've all decamped to Trump. And if you look at Zuckerberg and Bezos and these guys, whose own platforms, certainly in Zuckerberg's case,

unashamedly in opposition to Trump, now performing these screeching U-turns. There's been a real, as Trump would call it, a movement to him, but there's been a movement away from Democrats. And I think it's partly policy, no question, but I think also this whole cultural aspect to it. that's sort of cultural revolution of DEI, wokeism, all these things. I think this has been a repudiation of much of that.

Actually, a lot of Americans went, we're just done with it. Sorry, we're done with all this. And that's why the Trump commercial, which ended with Carmel as for they, them, Donald Trump's for you, was so effective. What do you think? I think it's about expediency, first and foremost, and I think it's about fear.

If the incoming president is threatening to put you in jail, and you kind of like to avoid that, and you'd like to stop your company going under, and he'd like to stop Elon Musk getting all the limelight, then you kind of do whatever you need to do. And I interviewed Mark Zuckerberg then Facebook about a decade ago, you know, when Facebook was just starting up. And he doesn't seem like a politically engaged guy particularly.

You know, his idea of Facebook was just running with your friends, sharing recipes with your friends, hooking up with your friends. I don't think he was thinking ever in terms of being a publisher. And so in some senses, when the Dictat came in the first time round from Biden, from lawmakers, joined the first Trump era of like, how did you let this happen? How did you let democracy get overturned? How did you stop fact checking?

I think he brought in the fact check slightly against his natural will. And I think now he's kind of, he's very good at going with the political wins. He's a businessman. He wants to do whatever keeps the people in power happy. but it's really interesting that while we've been sitting here watching, you know, the bros, the sort of the brauligarchy behind Trump,

if you're not part of that, but you are part of the tech circle, you know, if you're watching this from Davos, you're kind of scared, you're thinking, why aren't I there? Why aren't I part of that? Am I losing out? Because I'm not getting the same vibes

that the sort of the six chosen ones are coming. And, you know, some of them, I'm hearing stories, some who are, um, very well connected to have been very strong Democrat supporters weren't actually getting enough support from Biden in the last four years of the administration.

They weren't getting help on the kind of stuff that they wanted help with. We're going to play a clip with Steve Bannon on this very issue because he's really against the broligarchy and in particular, Trump's very close friendship now with the tech oligarchs. Let's take a look. Zuckerberg's, you know,

rode to Damascus, came a little late. It was after the fifth. It's very, you know, now he wants to be a bro. He's kung fu fights. He's going to UFC. He's got his hair done differently. He's cut. That doesn't hack it with me.

That guy will flip on President Trump, and he'll flip on us in a second. When it's convenient for him, he will flip. You called Elon Musk a truly evil person. Yeah. It's a little harsh. He said that the MAGA movement was a bunch of racist and that they should be turfed out of the Republican Party.

He may or may not mean that, but to me, there has to be an accounting for that. Dave Rubin, I mean, there is a real sort of split here, isn't there, between diehard Maga like Steve Bannon and those on the Republican side prepared to just accept this for what it is that actually the more people who run great big social media platforms who come to the Republican side, the better.

Where do you sit with this? Sure. I'm not sure how big the divide really is. I mean, we had that week before Christmas when everyone was fighting about H-1B visas. I think there is some nuanced version of all of this that they will get to some answer on. But I want to address what Bannon said there about Zuckerberg, because that actually gets to the heart of this.

Look, I don't know, like none of us on this panel or really anyone outside of Mark Zuckerberg himself. I don't know what's in his heart. So he had this mea culpa. He's seemingly coming around, but I never heard him say, I'm sorry. So I do agree. Had the election gone the other way, would he be doing this? Probably not.

But that also gives you opportunity. And this is what Donald Trump is a master of. Donald Trump is a master of taking people who used to not like or who he didn't like, seeing the winds change, and then bringing them in. So if, because the culture has changed and because Donald Trump is now president, if that enables Mark Zuckerberg to respect the First Amendment and free speech more honorably than he did under the previous administration, that would be great. At the same time, I would also say that I would love to hear Mark Zuckerberg.

He went on Rogan and he said that the government was calling Facebook and berating them to take down posts. Well, how about at least tell us who from the government did? did that. Could we at least know their names? That would be pretty good. So I think there's more he can do. And I would, again, I'm as suspect as Bannon is when it comes to Zuckerberg, but all of these guys being up there, whether it's Musk who is a Democrat his entire life, or it's Bezos, who owns the freak in Washington Post, or it's Zuckerberg or any of these guys. He's bringing together the people who are literally leading the AI tech revolution that whether you like it or not is happening.

Yeah. So it's going to happen. And I would rather be on the same. side of bringing more people in and dealing with these things transparently. Let's not forget the whole H-1B visa thing, the fight happened transparently. It didn't happen the way they got rid of Biden behind closed doors. It all happened on Twitter where you could see the fight. That's America actually at its best. That's what the battle of ideas is all about. Pierce, this goes back to when Donald Trump met with leaders

that people said you couldn't meet with. Sorry, but last word is this, that the splits are going to increase because when you have an allegiance to profit-making and greed and not to public interests in common good, and when you don't have the right integrity, honesty, and decency, lo and behold, the spiritual decay,

it becomes more manifest. But we just have to keep fighting. It keep trying to tell the truth. And Martin said, truth crushed earth will rise again. Dr. Cornel West, always great to have you on our sense. Thank you very much.

Thank you so much, my brother. Ben, back to you. Yeah, I want to go back to one of the reasons why I think he's brought in these guys. This is Donald Trump's policy. He went and met with leaders that people said, you don't even talk to. You have zero dialogue with. He was willing to pick up the phone and talk to anyone. North Korea didn't matter.

He would talk to them. And if you look at what Zuckerberg did, for example, this is a guy that spent hundreds of millions of dollars in Zuckbucks to influence the election. The idea, as your guest said earlier, he's not really a political guy, is insane. He spent more money than anyone else on the Democratic side in the last presidential election. So the idea of these non-political is absurd. But what I think Donald Trump saw here was an opportunity to sit down with someone and say, let's have a dialogue, let's talk about it. I also think what changed Musk and Zuckerberg possibly is the fact that even when they'd done

what all they had done to help the Democratic Party, The Democratic Party still threatened them in their businesses. That's what Zuckerberg said during that podcast. He's like, dude, I limited all this stuff. I gave all this money. And they still cussed out my employees and tried to investigate every aspect of my company that I built. And when you do that, like they do in Russia and China and other countries, except this was happening under Biden and Harris, it makes Donald Trump look a lot more appealing to sit down and talk to and work with. And I think that's the art of the deal here from their perspective.

Yeah, I mean, Harry, I want to talk to you specifically about TikTok because your biggest following is on TikTok. So until the weekend, you must have been sweating away because your whole power base on that platform was about to disappear. And then the Lone Ranger arrives to save the day. Donald Trump, do you want to take this opportunity to thank President Trump for so far saving TikTok for you? therefore personally enriching you?

Yeah, so I've said previously that if Donald Trump or anybody, any politician saves TikTok and prevents it from a ban, I'll give them credit that they deserve. But I also think it's important to point out, yeah, I mean, I'm not absolved of that. Do you want to say thank you, Donald, at this stage or not? Oh, no, I would never thank a sexual abuser from anything, I don't think. Oh, right. But I do want to point out that Donald Trump. What do you mean?

I do want, hold on. Let me just give some context here, though. I do want to point out that Donald Trump did sign an executive order when he was president the first time to ban TikTok. So the reason that this conversation started was because of Donald Trump in 2022 and 23, people like Charlie Kirk and I'm sure maybe these folks over here, though I don't know for sure, we're advocating for the banning of TikTok. And now when Donald Trump gets some money from people who have stake in it and he sees an opportunity to become more popular with Gen Z, then he flips his position. It's not what happened. So am I thankful to Donald Trump's like, Harry are you? And I also want to point out that Joe Biden...

Is Harry tacitly admitting that TikTok is spying is Chinese spyware? Are you admitting that it's owned by the Chinese government and that it's spying on Americans? I don't know how you could have gotten that for me saying that Donald Trump wanted to ban TikTok. But of course, you draw conclusions that aren't there. You'd fail to L-SAT in a second, Dave Rubin. Anyway, I also want to point out that Joe Biden laid the foundation. You know, appears it's remarkable that you let somebody who took Russian money on your show. Why would you let somebody who took Russian money on your show?

All see an RFK are no longer Democrats. It's disgraceful. It's just people with Russian money funneling to their. Anyway, let me finish, Dave. Would you just be quiet, please? Thank you. Unbearable. Joe Biden laid the foundation for TikTok to stay alive in the United States.

He said that they won't enforce the law that they're going to let the enforcement go to Donald Trump and his administration. So that laid the foundation. Is TikTok Chinese spyware? Do you have evidence to suggest that it is, Dave? Yes. Oh, hell of a lot of it. Yes. Oh, please.

Yes. Lay it on. I know you make money from them. But hell yes. Lay it on us, guys. They won't let you have it on. Lay it on us, guys. What's the evidence?

Okay, let's go through it. No, no. Let's go through it. Harry, is Chinese TikTok different than American TikTok? Yes or no? Yeah, yes, it is. I'm still waiting for all this evidence.

I'm still waiting for all this evidence that you guys says is so present. And by the way, if it is, I'll give it to you. I'll give it to you. Hold on gentlemen. Hold on gentlemen. Wait, wait.

Let me, wait, wait. Let me finish just really quickly. Ferguson, let me finish this really quickly. No, no, you'll let you'll let you speak. You asked a question. I'm going to answer the question you speak. Ferguson, I'm done. Let me finish and then I'll let you speak.

If you guys are arguing that it's Chinese spyware, are you saying that Donald Trump is currently arguing for a spyware, a mobile device? No, because you, again, this is where I'm going to teach you. Oh, no. I'm going to teach you politics here. So you understand. It's Chinese spyware, but not when Donald Trump advocates for it. I look the hypocrisy on this panel is remarkable.

I'm going to explain it to you. It's delicious up here. I think you're going to apologize to be. God, shut up, dude, and I'll explain it to you. And I apologize to all the audience. Harry, let Ben respond to you. Okay, I'm going to apologize to all of the audience right now that doesn't need this explanation because you're smart enough to understand it.

Now, Harry, for you, what Donald Trump said when he wanted to ban it. What Donald Trump said what he wanted to ban it is that it was clearly Chinese spyware. And there's a reason why governments were at cell phones and official government phones are not allowed to have this app on their phone. That's number one. Number two, what he did say was, I'm okay with TikTok as long it is divested from China. Now, let me explain what that means to you because clearly you don't understand it. They don't want the Chinese government to be able to spy on everyone and have all of their information and to put out propaganda from the Chinese Communist Party.

So here's your recap for you. Donald Trump said that if we change who owns TikTok to an American. American company that's not being controlled by the Chinese Communist Party. Also known as the CCP. Again, you're never going to learn, buddy, if you don't listen, okay? Premise 2 is false. Premise 2 is false. Your premise to is false.

Your conclusion cannot be true. Again, you can argue in a second, but listen and maybe you'll learn something. I know you're making all your money from the Chinese Communist Party via TikTok. I get that. And Dave is making his money from the Russians, right? We understand. Dude, shut the fuck up. Pears, peers, peers.

Pears. This kid is, look at him. Look at him. I've gotten under his skin. No, because you're just like a little rat, nothing. We're here, we're here trying to actually discuss important things. There's an unbelievable resurgence of America. And he brings you on, dude, he brings you on because the commenters all think you're

restarted, okay? That's what's really going on here. Freaking out right now. This guy's having a mental breakdown over there. Relax, David. No, he's nobody's just because we don't have a conversation on the issue. Listen. Listen. Okay.

You're a embarrassing little rat, dude. That's great, Dave. We've tried down. I was complaining earlier about personal insults. Dave was complaining earlier about personal insult. You know what? No one can now hear a word anyone's saying. I want to change the temperature a little bit.

Wait, wait, wait. Years, can I just quickly rebuttal like five seconds, I promise. No, you can't. Dave, I'm going to go to you. Dave, I want to talk to you about something completely, hopefully non-contentious, although I doubt it the way Harry's been behaving. Melania Trump.

Pierce. Do you see that? I'm talking to Dave, Harry. Melania Trump, it seems to me, does not get enough credit for being a great first lady. Whatever you think of Donald Trump, it doesn't matter to me. This is someone who inexplicably never got the covers of the magazines that were rolled out for all the other first ladies.

She's become a fashion icon. She looked incredible, I thought, today at the inauguration, as she has done pretty much all the time throughout the campaign and so on. What do you feel? Is she getting undercredited, Melania Trump? Because I think she's great at being a first lady. Yeah, first peers, let me real quick. Let me apologize to you and your audience

from my choice language there. I'm happy to come on your show. There's no problem. Yeah, no, I know, I know. I'm happy to come on your show and debate any leftist or any of these people anytime. I will never come on with this child again.

This is utterly fruitless and pointless. Just cry more, man. Just cry more. Dude, grow up. Grow up, okay. You're a grown man, just cry more, buddy. I think she was actually. I appreciate it.

Yeah, I think she will, yeah, okay. He just illustrated it once again. As from Melania, I think she was a wonderful first lady. I think she really understands the sort of elegance and the tone of what a first lady is where she does sort of step in the background and really set the stage for the president to do events properly. She's an unbelievably gracious host. I've met her a few times. And I'm sure you have as well.

She's an absolutely loving, decent human being. And I would also say for people that have never seen the 47 now 47th president and the first lady together, I have seen them together at dinner when their hands are touching on the table. They love each other. It is real. As he even said, I think in the speech today, that she is the person that he turns to. And I think that's in stark contrast to Jill Biden,

who in many ways was the Machiavellian puppet master of Joe Biden, who she's the one that's probably really upset today that she's giving up power. I'm not totally convinced Joe even knew where he was, but I think she's going to bring elegance and decency back to the office of the first lady. Yeah, and you know what, Ben, I like what she said on Fox last week,

which was that, you know, she offers advice to Donald. He doesn't always agree with it, and that's fine. And sometimes he listens to her and sometimes he doesn't. I mean, that's like most successful marriages in my estimation.

But I do want to play a little clip from Inauguration Day where she looked fantastic, but there was a problem with the hat. Let's take a look. You'll see them come together. He goes in for the kiss, and he just can't actually reach her cheek

because of the brim of the hat. That was just a strategic error. That's a wise man right there. That's a wise man. You don't mess with your wife's hat on inauguration day. He knows who's in charge in that moment. That is a... I'm not messing with your hat. I understand that I will pay for this later. I'm going to give you the air kiss. If my wife was wearing that

hat, I wouldn't touch that hat on inauguration day either. I do want to say, I love First Ladies that aren't as political. I love that she... finds humanitarian issues to deal with. This is something that Laura Bush, for example, I think, did incredibly well. She's 180 from Jill Biden. And look, Jill Biden had a tough job when you're a caretaker 24-7 and having to cover up that your husband is clearly incapacitated. That is a tough place to be. It is. And the American people know that. It's incredible. I think Melania does so well. Is Moni, is someone that she's there to support

Donald Trump, and she's also there to protect her son as he was growing up. And I have a lot of respect for that. Yeah, I totally agree. Harry, inexplicably, you've just spent the last team and it's grimacing and groaning when we're talking about Melania Trump being a really nice lady who dresses great and is a good first lady. How could you possibly find exception in that? No, I don't care about like you guys talking about her outfits. Like, it's perfectly fine. I'm sure she dresses lovely. I just find it like, it's so brain-numbing to hear everybody be like, like, you know, laugh about this interaction between Donald Trump.

Be like, that's a real man right there. This guy's a criminal who assaults women. This guy is no real man. So for you guys to like, to praise Donald Trump for literally anything is sickening. It is sickening to me. And I also just want to point out, then the past couple of days, Donald Trump and Melania Trump have released their own meme cryptocurrencies, probably losing their followers, hundreds of thousands of dollars, millions of dollars, depending on how much they put into

it. That doesn't strike me as very moral. That doesn't strike me as people who are, you know, becoming the president. and meeting the moment. So, yeah, I don't care about Melania Trump. She's fine, great. I have no objection to Melania Trump. But the praising of Donald Trump,

except you just attacked her. You just attacked her and then you say she's fine. You know, I don't know, she's not. It's a scumbagery 101 when you do what you just did. I've always held the belief that if somebody's not the president there. Yeah, well, I certainly didn't say that. I have this belief that for the most part of somebody's not a politician. You just said that she stole the people and ruined people financially.

All right. Well, you said she's a POS. Wait, I'm sorry. Are you, are you okay with the cryptocurrency? scheme that they're running right now, Ben? You're no problem? Number one, I don't think it's a scheme. Number two, I think cryptocurrencies drastically go up and down.

If you understand cryptocurrency, you would understand. Hold on. They drastically go up and now. Welcome to cryptocurrency, you moron. This is so shame. This is so shameful. You can't just say like them having this. That's it.

We try to end on a moment of agreement about Melania. You'll never get this from the Trump deranged people. Looking great and behaving fastly. You'll just get scams and bibles and cryptocurrency and trading cards. That's right. Here's what I know. Donald Trump is your president right now, so welcome to four years. And Joe Biden was your president. And he was. He's not anymore, bro. He's not anymore.

And according to you, Harry, to remind everybody, according to you, Harry, he was going to spend another four years being a brilliant president of the United States when in fact he could barely bring ascensions together. Got to leave it there. Thank you all very much indeed. Much appreciated. Sad will never see that panel again, but it was worth it for one last radio. Only because Dave is scared. Thank you all very much. David is scared.