Piers Morgan Uncensored - Trump's Selling Bibles?

Episode Date: March 29, 2024

Piers is joined by a global super-pack in the shape of Sage Steele, Vincent Oshana, Francesca Fiorentini, Esther Krakue and Ava Santina to discuss this week's burning topics. From Donald Trump's relationship with the Bible, to Princess Catherine's health, the Baltimore Bridge disaster, Meghan Markle's latest money-making venture and Sam Smith's cheeky fashion faux pas, just another action-packed debate! 00:00 - Introduction  01:07 - Francesca Fiorentini on Trump: “He’s a bible salesman” 04:00 - Do you think Donald Trump prays nightly? 05:58 - Ava Santina: “I don’t think Donald Trump is the most Christian man” 07:40 - On Truth Social and the left’s view of the former President 11:49 - Vincent Oshana: “You would think the left would wake up!” 13:55 - Ronna McDaniel and the MSNBC staff revolt  18:59 - Esther Krakue: “They’ve turned Trump into a martyr!” 21:59 - Baltimore Bridge incident and Kate Middleton 30:55 - Biden’s response to the Francis Scott Key Bridge collapse 33:23 - Meghan Markle’s new pet food venture 36:00 - Sam Smith’s fashion faux pas Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

First, they said he had no money and couldn't make his bond payments. Now, former President Trump's true social network is valued at $8 billion, and he started selling Bibles for $60 bucks a time. Why does every legal attack seem to make Teflon Don stronger? The Baltimore Bridge collapsed was a disaster, so why does so many people think it's something more sinister? Does it tell us anything about the state of Biden's America that a bridge just collapses like that?

And RFK Jr. picks Nicole Shanahan as his running mate. is he a bigger threat to Trump or Biden? And my old friend Mega Markle has announced an exciting new career move, selling pet food. Join me to debate all this is the mega peers pack today, one of the great packs ever assembled. Unsensored regulars, Esther Krakow and Ava Santina, host of the Bituation Room, love that, Francesca Fierontini, comedian and commentator from the PBD podcast, Vincent Ashana, and the host of the all-new Sage Steel Show. on YouTube, Sage Steele. Well, welcome to all of it.

Great to have you all. Hello. Let me start with you, Francesca. Donald Trump, let's just play a clip of him selling Bibles. This Bible is the King James version and also includes our founding father documents. Yes, the Constitution,

which I'm fighting for every single day, very hard to keep Americans protected. Also, the Bill of Rights, the Declaration of Independence and the Pledge of Allegiance are all part of this. God bless the USA Bible. Well, making America pray again, Francesca,

I mean, nothing ever surprises me about Donald Trump, known him nearly 20 years. I've got to say, this one did, though. Seating him as a kind of latter-day presidential preacher was a new first. What did you make of it? Yeah, he's now a literal Bible salesman hawking this because he needs the money.

But look, I think it's convenient for Donald Trump to have the Bible and the Constitution in one place. Two things he's never read, so he can just ignore them all at once. It's super convenient, but it's not on-brand. Like, for me, an on-brand Trump book would be, like, Twilight plus Mind-Conf.

Like that, he would read it, he would love it, he would actually finish it. Come on, you can't include Mind-Cuff. I mean, his former ex-wife said that he did have it by his bedside, but again, may she rest in peace by Whole Nine at Mar-a-Lago. Okay. Sage, that's one view. I would imagine you have a rather different view.

Yes, safe to say yes. Here's the thing. I think the timing certainly isn't a coincidence. And with all the trouble that he's been in, whether it's rightful or not, yeah, I think at this point it is smart to pray. Let's open it up and find some good Bible verses and recite them, quote them, whatever it takes.

At the end of the day, though, yeah, I happen to agree. And I think that the big picture and some of the things he's spoken about, is that that's one of the things that has escaped us here in America over the last several years, not just during the Biden administration. And of course, that stuff has tried to be successfully erased out of our schools, et cetera. You don't say the Pledge of Allegiance anymore in many, many public schools. So why not? And I do think that it does appeal certainly to that more Midwest conservative value group that many people still teetering. Do I go for him or not? Is this going to

be the reason why people vote for him? I don't think it would be the deterring or, you know, the convincing factor for me, but it can't hurt at this point. And I happen to believe that he does pray every day, that he does take those verses seriously. Really? He does believe. I do. Okay.

Well, look, I'm going to bring here. All right, let me bring in Vinny because I'm not so convinced. And the reason I'm not convinced that the Bible is something Donald Trump wallows in every night is because he was once asked what his favorite passage in the Bible was, and he gave this response. I'm wondering what one or two of your most favorite Bible verses are. I wouldn't want to get into it because to me that's very personal. You know, I think it's just an incredible.

The whole Bible is an incredible. I joke very much so. They always hold up the art of the deal. I say my second favorite book of all time. But I just think the Bible is just something very special. Now personally, the art of the deal is one of my all-time favorite books. It's absolutely brilliant. In fact, I read it three times in preparation for competing.

in Celebrity Apprentice and ended up winning because I basically ended up talking to Trump as if I was Trump. But Vinnie, in relation to his adherence to the Bible and to prayer, do you actually buy it? Do you think Trump prays nightly? Do you think he's wedded to this? Or is he wedded more to getting the evangelical vote?

Well, first and foremost, peers, I want to say thank you for having me. I'm a huge fan. When I found out I was going to be on the show, I called my mother. She was excited. She called the whole family, but she's, you know,

she's almost 80. She's kind of losing it, but she called the whole family and told everybody I was going to be on a podcast with Morgan Freeman. So I want to say, I'm a huge fan.

You were great. You were great playing God and Bruce Almighty, but here's on Trump. Yeah, thank you. So he's a businessman. He built the best economy this country has seen.

He's obviously getting attacked. Their election interference, aka cheating. He has to do whatever he has to do to raise money because they're trying to bankrupt him, because he's a front-runner. And I think, guess what?

And sage said it perfectly. This country needs God more than ever. From the sexualization to kids to the crime to everything is away from God, away from God. He's a businessman. If he's going to sell Bibles and put the Constitution and wake everybody up and raise money for himself, it's a win-win situation for me, peers. And if it's God's involved, I'm all in. Okay, Ava, it's a win-win if God's involved.

God and Donald Trump, the lethal double act. Well, it just really surprises me actually to hear all of your, all of you speaking there, because here we have a real separate church and state. We would never invoke anything quite so evangelical in our politics. So it's really surprising for me to hear that people are actually a fan of that. And, you know, when I, I am a Catholic, and when I think of Donald Trump, I don't particularly think he's the most Christian man. I mean, you know, some of his dablings with Stormy Daniels or some of the other business deals

that he has been involved with, I wouldn't really say that those were, you know, Christian values. And I'm just quite surprised that he's managed to sort of masquerade that personality underneath the guise of the Bible. It's confusing to me. Well, it is a good point. I mean, Esther, you know, is he someone who lives up to Christian ideals? Well, I think it's what he is first.

He is first and foremost, Donald Trump, the businessman. He is the ultimate influencer. And he believes in his own way that his calling is to save America from whatever the Democrats are putting it through. And I think that fits in quite well with a huge part of his base who are evangelical Christians and who are probably not that fuss that, yes, this man couldn't name two verses in the Bible if you paid him a billion dollars to do so. They're not fuss. They know the character they're dealing with. They know this man has been married multiple times. He was known as a womanizer. This is a man who was glorified, deified in hip-hop culture. He was known to hang out with rappers who are not known for treating women very well. So we know the stick with Trump. We know that he's not necessarily very pious.

but this works because he's going to be bankrupted if he doesn't do something and really... Well, I don't think he will because of the success of true social, this social media platform, where he's made billions of dollars, literally in the last 36 hours. I mean, Francesco, it does seem to me, the harder the left go at Trump,

the more they martyr him, one, and he transforms the martyrdom into empowerment, and it makes him stronger and more electable. So my question for the left, is why do it? Why have this strategy of constantly trying to stab him in the back at all the chest when all it seems to do is help him? I don't know what you're asking me to do, Pierce. I don't know if you want me to like applaud a little baby for selling a book that he's never read any part of. He said he doesn't have a favorite Bible passage because he hasn't read

the Bible. We all know this. That's a classic I didn't read the book book report answer. And he's done this forever. You also know he doesn't pray because remember when he was president And the first time a bunch of pastors and different religious leaders put their hands on him and he made his duck face. This is like a three-year-old at dinner being like, thank you God for my Legos. Like, we know that face. I mean, and like, again, he gets special treatment from literally everyone. We just saw his bond reduced to 175 million down from 454 million. And peers on that point that you made, which is a good one, right?

Hey, truth social is now public worth $8 billion. Isn't that incredible? Don't we see what's actually happening right before our very eyes? The thing that he actually got nabbed for in New York, overinflating his assets, is going on right now with truth social. According to a lot of financial experts, they're saying truth social in no way is worth what $8 billion is completely overvaluated. And he's getting away with it. And I'm so sorry to the working men and women who shell out. their money to buy the stupid Bible, the stupid coin, the sneakers, these rubes who spend their hard-earned

money because we can't get a livable wage in this country to bow down to their so-called Jesus King, Donald Trump. I mean, I hope there is a God so that he eventually speaks to them and says, this ain't your boy. Vinny, let me ask you about two comments about all this. One was the Biden campaign who said he spent Donald Trump the weekend golfing, the morning comparing himself to Jesus and the afternoon lying about having money he definitely doesn't have. And then Bill Clinton's Labor Secretary, Robert Wright, said on X, whether he has an actual Messiah

complex or is just conning his supporters. He's playing to a growing GOP faction that wants America to be white Christian nationalist state with Donald Trump as divine ruler. Your thoughts? Peers, let's just be honest with each other from the beginning. Everything from the New York thing to everything that we've gone to this point. They call it election meddling. All that we're talking about, everything that we've got to this point to your other guests saying, you know, he thinks this, he hasn't

read this. Let's just be honest. From 2016, the Obama administration was spying on Trump's campaign to Hillary Clayne with the DNC and all the Russian collusion to all the fake impeachments, to 2020, FBI at Twitter suppressing all these stories.

I think 60% of Americans wouldn't have voted for Biden if the truth was coming out. Now, we're at 2024. All this fake, Mar-a-Lago is not worth 18. But, like, I've been to Mar-a-Lago. I was in a room that was worth more than $18 million. So it's all the far as...

I've been there, and it's definitely worth more than 18- million. I completely agree. And here's the point, Pierce. What else is this guy supposed to do? They hate him because he loves America. He's been saying it since the 80s. Everybody loved him. He was never racist.

Now, every single thing that he does, if he ran into a burning building, Pierce, I'm being dead serious, and he saved five black children, six Mexican children, and eight Asians, you know what they'd say? Why didn't you save more black people? You're racist. That's what we've come to. That's what we've come to.

And the guy is trying to raise money because they're trying to take everything from him, Pierce. You know, my thing about Trump is... You're not going to stop Trump. Yeah, my thing about Trump is, there's plenty of stuff you can go at Trump about completely legitimately. He says stuff every day that you can look at Trump. legitimately criticize him about, or at least confront him about.

It's the way the left, for some unfathomable reason, think that massively exaggerating. And I come back again, I've said this a few times, but the day after he won in 2016, I met Chris Rock by chance at the New York Knicks in the VIP bit where we were eating food. And he's on the next table. And I said, why do you think Trump won? You know why? Because if someone's killed 10 people, don't go around and say they've killed 11. In other words, don't exaggerate a bad somebody is.

If there's plenty of stuff to go at him about, don't exaggerate. Obviously, I'm not saying he's killed anyone. But the principle is the same. Who is the left in your opinion? Sorry? But I don't understand. He's got 91 criminal indictments. Do you think the courts in the United States are run by the left?

Pretty much, yeah. I don't identify. They just gave him a 60% discount. Well, hang on, let me ask you a question. They gave him a 60% discount off his civil fraud. But Jessica, hang on, look, let me just say something. I don't, listen, I'm not conservative. I don't, certainly I'm not on the left

because I think they've gone won't crazy. I'm kind of in the middle somewhere trying to make sense of all this. I think that with Trump... The boogeyman, yes, I guess. Look, he's facing 91 criminal charges. Do I think they're all valid? No. Do I think the stuff with Stormy Daniels

is pathetic to go after an ex-president over that? Yeah, I think it's pathetic. And I think most of middle America does. So when it comes to the election in November, about it. They're going to say, why did you victimize this guy? Whereas in fact, if you look at what happened, if you look at the stolen election nonsense and the January 6th nonsense, there's plenty of stuff to go at Trump about, which is legitimate. But he's going to get lost in the wash. And guess what, Pierce, you would think that the left would wake up. So only some of them.

Nothing is working. Nothing is working. It's not working. It has it worked in 2016. Let me bring in Sage on that. It's embarrassing. I'll tell you another part of this, which is interesting. She obviously ran the RNC, and she was driven out of there because she probably wasn't mager enough. And she washes up at NBC and they're going to make her a pundit. And then after four days, she's the victim of this kind of massive onslaught from NBC and MSNBC on-air talent. And I was watching it's going, hang on a second. And she's been fired immediately. because, presumably, just because she's a Republican,

who might have the audacity to espouse Republican views on air, and the media, the mainstream media in America, is predominantly skewed left. And this is a classic example, because I remember MSNBC giving Jen Pazaki a show after she was the White House press secretary. So they're clearly quite happy to take people

from partisan political sides, just not on the right. And when you see that happen... It just has to fit. When you see that happen, As Elon Musk has said today, it exposes the bias. And that, again, plays into Trump's hand. Sage. It's so blatant.

It is absolutely so blatant. And it's been fascinating, by the way, to watch Elon Musk kind of evolved since before he bought X to now. And he's like, you know, a lot of people are saying what he says, I've never voted Republican. I never wanted to vote Republican. But because of how the mainstream media works,

because of how this current administration has acted since before they got in, it's almost backing them into a corner. and they almost have no choice. It is so comical to me that all of the talent at MSNBC came together and threw basically one big fat tantrum and won. I think it's ridiculous, and I think it's so funny when you look at what the chairman said

and how they take such pride and diversity of thought and having different viewpoints on our network. And then what do we do? A couple days after bringing someone on with a diverse different viewpoint. Yeah, then they fire her. So to me, this goes back to... to the whole reason why we're in this situation in the first place. Because with your Donald Trump stuff,

I mean, you can go on and on and say, well, he did this and he did that. And guess what? So did everybody else. The moment on the debate stage in 2016 with Hillary Clinton, when Anderson Cooper asked him about, did you evade the tax laws? And he said, absolutely.

Well, why haven't the law changed the laws? Why haven't the laws changed? Because every single one of you are using those laws as well. Correct. So it's such hypocrisy. And that's why the American people felt like, and I think feel like he is the only alternative based on what the track record currently is

with this administration. Most people don't want to vote for Donald Trump because some of the reasons your guests have pointed out. But look at the alternative. It's pathetic and it's wrong that we're even in the situation. Well, let me bring in avert on this, because I have a real belief here that the way the left go about dealing with Trump

is utterly self-harming, that you can have all these views about him. But when you just throw the kitchen sink trying to stop him being allowed to run again, you know, trying to get him off the ballot, all this kind of stuff. Each time they do this, I'm like, why are you doing this?

It doesn't work. It's deeply, deeply unhelpful. I also, I find it really amusing that you call it the left because the Democrat left is not the left at all, actually. It's actually pretty right wing. Really? Well, it is pretty right wing, isn't it? Well, they would identify as progressive left.

You know, you wouldn't exactly go around calling Biden a socialist. And if you did, then you haven't really... No, because if you do that, then you haven't got... a very good reading of any socialist theory. But look, you know, I also just think, you know, the mess that went on with MSNBC says a lot about where America is at the moment. You know, you guys are always going on about how much you care about free speech and how important it is for people to have their say.

And then you invite someone on, who, by the way, might have the best insight to Trump possible because she's worked so closely to him right in an election year. And then you throw her out. Wait a minute. Amos Santina, you basically agree with it. I know. Let's take a look at Rachel Maddow, right? Rachel Maddo did this about the Ronald McDaniel thing.

The fact that Ms. McDaniel is on the payroll at NBC News, to me, that is inexplicable. I mean, you wouldn't hire like a wise guy. You wouldn't hire a maid man, like a mobster, to work at a DA's office. And so I find the decision to put her on the payroll inexplicable. and I hope they will reverse their decision. And what he cried out for, Esther,

was a little disclaimer saying, just to remind everybody watching MSNBC that one of Rachel Maddow's presenting colleagues who has their own show on MSNBC is Jen Pazaki, who was the White House press secretary for Joe Biden. I mean, it is literally beyond parody that they would take this position as if they haven't done that.

And, of course, all it does, as Elon Musk and others, have pointed out, all it does is reveal the double standard. It confirms once again, one rule for the right, one rule for the left. And that helps Trump. You could see the smugness in her face when she was saying that. It's this kind of elitism that's, for some reason, the left and the U.S. is riddled with. And at the end of the day, what they've done to Donald Trump is they've turned them into a martyr for for people who he wouldn't traditionally be a martyr for.

Because he doesn't, going after him is one thing. But people are saying, actually, if this is where you. If this is the extent you'll go to to go after Donald Trump, someone you don't like, what are you going to do to me? You're going to try to make 91 court clases against him. What are you going to do to me that doesn't have billions of dollars at my disposal? And that's the problem. People are seeing the weaponization of the state in America. And they're thinking, actually, it's not about left or right or Democrat or Republican.

It's against the state versus me. And people are terrified. And if they have to have a madman to reveal that and to at least work against it, so be it. They have forced most normal people to Donald Trump side. And they can't see this because they're too elitist. I know a lot of people who I think would identify as very moderate Republicans, not MAGA at all, or even independents, who are just, who just see what's going on as a witch hunt.

They do. But that behavior, that behavior by Rachel Maddo there, that is the sort of behavior that's going to deliver a Trump win. Yes, Francesca, far away. I'm sorry to interrupt. I just want to ask you guys a question about, you know, the Ronna McDaniel thing I think is interesting. I think it is a great point and an important point

to, number one, say that MSNBC is not the left, right? And they also, obviously, the revolving door between politics and news media is disgusting. It happens on the Democratic left and it happens on the Republican right all the time. But let's do a little corollary here. Ronna McDaniel was involved in a scheme to basically send alternate electors in Michigan, was on the phone saying, don't certify the 2020 election, please, and quote, we will get you lawyers if you don't certify, don't worry. So this is straight up election interference

for all y'all who were claiming election interference. How is what the Democrats are doing any different? How is what the Democrats are doing any different? My question's coming. My question's coming. My question's coming. Time out. My question's coming.

My question's coming. So imagine the Hunter Biden scandal, right, that a lot of folks on the right think that this is the biggest news is Hunter Biden accepting $5 million from this company and the next to do a thing and but whatever. It stinks. Yeah, he was. Yeah, he did.

Hang on. Hang on. Hang on. Hang on. My question's coming. Imagine. Yes, and? Imagine if Ashley Biden were hired by Fox News. What if Newsmax decided to have Malia Obama? That would be a good decision. She's not Hunter Biden, though.

A right-wing outlet. You know what I would say, Francesca, you know what I would say? I would say, let them all go on the airways. If they're any good, they offer insight into the characters running their party, I'm all for it, right? And both sides are guilty. Listen, both sides are guilty of hypocrisy. Let's move on to something else.

I want to move on conscriptly to the Baltimore Bridge. The Baltimore Bridge story. Well, no, I kind of agree with you, so that's why I'm moving on. The Baltimore Bridge story, let me go to you, Benny, on this. It just strikes me that nothing can happen now in the world without conspiracy theorists immediately hijacking whatever event it is, whether it's the Princess of Wales who's got a health condition that we now know is cancer, or whether it's a bridge being hit by a cargo ship,

whatever it may be. Immediately, on social media, you see it start to rage into complete madness. You know, you've got people like Andrew Tate saying it was clearly a cyber attack. It's the end of the world. Alex Jones goes in. This is the beginning of the end and so on. Zero evidence for any of this. But I see it, because they've got big followings, these guys, within, you know, four hours, people messaging me going, wow, was it really a cyber attack? No, it wasn't. There's no evidence for that. What do we do about, well, first of all, do you share my concern about that, Benny?

And secondly, what do we do about it? Well, peers, this just happened yesterday. So even for me or you, Pierce, to say right now, it wasn't a cyber attack, you don't know, we don't know. You know, the bridge was, you know, apparently shut down for, you know, construction. But I'm pretty sure they did. And I'm also sure what I heard from the police, which is actually no. But, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but here's ready for this? I don't know if you guys, this was very, very eerie looking, like the beginning of,

Barack and Michelle's Obama on Netflix called Leave the World Behind. The opening scene is this cargo ship is coming right to the beach and blends up on the, on the beach. I've seen multiple videos. I don't know, but people want to question for the fact that this ship made a beach, it's not heading under a bridge. Hold on, no, well, and then the lights go off, the shit immediately sends a Mayday alert, which means that. Cars don't go over the bridge and people's lives are saved.

And then because the power had gone off it veers off target and it hits a stanchion. The real scandal is why did that bridge all collapse when one part of it was hit? That is what I suspect will be the real scandal. The route of that ship was very suspect that it turned, came back and like you said, because it lost power. Of the bridge. And because they dropped an acre, which changed it. And then hit that main part of the bridge.

And hold on. And by the way, let's talk about the broader problem. Pete Buttigieg, okay, director of transportation. We have the East Palestine disaster with the train. Airplanes are falling out of the sky. Bridges are getting torn down, hitting by, like, what is this guy doing? I mean, he's never to be fine. I think they just went to East Palestine.

Biden just went a little while ago. It's like, what is really going on? The guy went on paternity leave for three months. He's barely doing. If this guy was flipping burgers at McDonald's, he would have been fired. three years ago. So I don't know what, like, besides the conspiracies, it's like, what is up with our transportation guy?

All right. I don't care less about the conspiracy. I actually think you, I think he is useless. You're right. But, Sage, on this, Sage, I mean, are you part of, are you up for the conspiracies about it? Or do you accept that actually accidents happen? I think it's awful that people automatically go there.

And in some ways, I guess I can't blame them because of the state of the world today and in this country, et cetera. But all it takes, maybe it's the reporter in me, all it takes is saying, okay, hold on a second. Let me look at the video and then let me listen to what the authorities are saying when they're at the microphone. And then you hear that they tried, there's a Mayday call, which, by the way, kudos to the police officers in Baltimore, by the way, for which there aren't many, because they keep losing people

on the forces, but the ones that were there were able to say, oh, my gosh, stop the cars on both ends, right? and they were doing their best to get over to the middle of the bridge where those poor workers were, but they couldn't get there without driving their car. So right now, six presumed dead. I mean, the Mayday is what saved even more lives. But Sage, you know, this is why... A conspiracy fear is thinking.

Think about this. It wouldn't have happened at 1.30 in the morning. Right. Like, that's not the time to take everybody out. Of course, no. I think it's ridiculous. I think it's all preposterous. The problem is, Alex Jones is one of the people who've led the conspiracy theories on this.

And he has a big following. And I'd have a bit of a falling out with Elon Musk about this. Because originally, after the billion-dollar defamation award against him for the appalling abuse of the Sandy Hook families, where he deliberately traded in their misery by lying about the whole thing being staged by actors and so on, he got one of the biggest defamation of wars in history against him. And Elon Musk originally, when he bought Twitter,

said, I'm not going to allow him back on the platform. Now he has, and sure enough, immediately, he's back spewing conspiracy theories because guess what, Sage? It makes money. It gets him clicks and it gets him millions of dollars. And I don't think that to me there should be a line. If you are deliberately spreading deliberate lies, you know a lies, wild conspiracy theories, just to trade in misery, you shouldn't be allowed to use these platforms to do it.

But he's also psychotic. And I think he does believe some of those things. I don't think he believes any of it. I think you're being generous. It's generous to say he's mad. But, but Pierce, can I say one thing? It's not as if we didn't, and I'm not saying it. I'm just saying we have had two already cyber attacks, one on AT&T, one on all the Instagram, everything.

It's almost as it's like, from that movie, leave the world behind. It's almost as if it's predictive programming. Hold on. And then, Pierce, when people fall into these conspiracy theories, you just said Kate Middleton. I pray for her. I hope everything is okay. But when you keep putting out fake videos, de-fakes of her, what do you expect the people to think? And you want us Americans to trust whatever their government

or the mainstream media says to them? They've lost all faith. Going back to MSNBC, Rachel Maddall, all these people. Nobody has faith in these people. Yeah, conspiracy theorists have been emboldened. Can I just laugh by the mainstream media? Hang on on, Francesco. I'll come to you in a second.

Conspiracy theorists have been emboldened by the mainstream media and by government agencies, losing the faith of the public. I mean, COVID was a huge driver of this. There were so many things that we were told to believe that were proven to be untrue. And then when they were proven to be untrue, these agencies didn't apologize for them. So they feel like they have a monopoly on information

and people are like, actually, no, I'm going to look for multiple sources, through multiple sources, and try and come to my own conclusions. Obviously, they're going to get it wrong, and this is what you're seeing now with conspiracy theories. But you know what? The people at the top have themselves to blame. By the way, Ava, it works on both sides.

I see people on the right and the left spewing conspiracy theories or refusing to change their position about stuff and behaving like fascists towards people who don't agree with them. That's also part of the problem. But, Pierce, how do you determine then who to silence and who not to? I mean, and it's very subjective, and that's where you get into that dangerous territory.

Well, I think he's gone to far. Well, I think the line is where you have people who have a proven, demonstrable-dract record of trading in misery by spewing conspiracy theories for hundreds of millions of dollars, eventually the penny should drop. That's what they're doing. People like Alex Jones have a business model. And the other thing. Ava? Look, I don't think that the Kate Middleton conspiracy theories are that out. Hang on one say, Francesca.

I want to come to you in one second. I don't think that the Kate Middleton conspiracy theories were that out of hand. I think some of the things that we're reading about Baltimore are absolutely ludicrous. I mean, you know, one thing that Americans don't want to confront is that during the 70s, you know, a lot of your industry left Baltimore, left that area, and, you know, you outsourced it. And so, yeah, a cheap bridge was built and it hasn't been maintained. But, you know, you guys are so, you know, consumed by looking at conspiracy theories. You can't actually look at how, you know, how terrible your current trade system is.

Actually, that bridge was built with reinforced concrete. So it wasn't the actual structural integrity of it. So far, the information shows, was the problem. It was actually the personnel on the scene. Well, let me bring in Franceschi to be waiting patiently. I mean, are any of us engineers? No. This is the question.

Are any of us engineers, how many of us have seen a massive cargo ship hit a pillar of a bridge and it collapsed? I think none of us. So we don't actually know how it's impacted. But I did want to just explain in terms of the other, it's not conspiracy theories, but the other angles. Piers, you're 100% right. There's got to be an angle, especially the far right, I think, has to have an angle on something.

It can't just be a tragedy unless it's a mass shooting, in which case it's just a tragedy is nothing to do with gun control. But look at this. Hang on, all right. Let's see if you say what I'm saying is bonkers to you. In terms of American infrastructure, the far right and the Republicans in the United States Congress refused to vote for Biden's infrastructure plan that gives millions, billions of dollars to bridges and roads, specifically in cities that are overlooked and underfunded. and yes, where investment has left, like Baltimore. No Republican voted for that bill, and yet a lot of those Republicans are taking credit for that bill.

You see Lauren Bobert taking credit for new waterways. Francesca, here's what I would say. Thanks to Joe Biden. Hang on. Well, Joe Biden remember gave us. Hang on. The other angle here is that is there is. He used to get the train over that bridge. Trains have never gone over that bridge. That doesn't help.

And also if the Democrats took law in order more seriously, you wouldn't have an exodus of people and law enforcement leaving Baltimore. might have something to do with investment, not just them shipping. Francesca, let me ask Francesca. And the last point, hang on. Go on. Go on.

Go on. Jessica, go on. Last point about the sage, I thought, had some really sage words, actually, and talked about those workers, the people who did die. And those people were actually immigrants, immigrant workers. And guess who built this country? Immigrants. They have always built this country, and they continue to build this country.

I think it's important to acknowledge. I agree. because you can't imagine that actually immigrants from Latin America would be the ones at 1 a.m. working their tail off to make sure that people can drive safely over bridges. They were filling in potholes. These folks have families. Yes.

These folks have names. And yet we in this country, especially on the right, demonize them as if they don't work hard and if they're not deserving of that rules. That's not what people are doing. You're conflating two things. America was built. on immigration, that is completely true.

But what happened with the workers who very sadly died in this disaster, this tragedy, has nothing to do with the crisis at the southern border, which is an absolute abrogation of leadership in stopping the tidal ways of illegal immigration. It should not be easier to get into America illegally than it is to get into America legally. I speak to someone who is described as an exceptional alien

on my visa status. Are you guys all going to pick up construction ailments? years to get our stature. It took me a long time to get a visa for America. You go through a lot of stuff, a lot of meetings, all of interviews. How many bridges did you have to work on, Pierce? Sorry? How many bridges, how many construction jobs do you have to get up for?

Are you joking? Wait a minute. That's ridiculous. So you, unless I've actually, unless I physically built that bridge, I'm not allowed to comment. On you trying to conflate two immigration stories, right? Shame on you, Francesca. Let me bring it one other subject. I'm just trying to think of those who were lost in this tragedy.

We all agree with you, though. We all agree with you. No one is bashing the immigrants working on that bridge. I've not seen that from anybody. What I'm bashing are the mad stories about cyber attacks and so on, which we know nothing about. I want to just end with Megamarkle, my favorite subject, who is apparently through her ludicrously named New Lifestyle brand,

American Riviera Orchard, selling bird seed and edible pet treats. She's going to the pet food market. Vinnie, every time I think she can't get more ludicrous, she gets more ludicrous. What do we make of this? A member of the royal family flogging pet food? I mean, Pears, I'm not,

the only real story that I was following was the Kate Middleton story, but it's almost as if, like, every week it's just something else with this girl. Where are they living right now, peers? They're in the United States, correct? Correct. She's just, I think she's, she is in charge of that relationship.

Whatever she says goes and it's, it's so blatantly obvious who's in charge. And it's just, she's one of the key pieces that I think is really messing up this family. Ava, apparently, called Divini, it's obviously he's in charge. And they're moving into the pet food market. Yeah, well, you know, look, Megan Markle's minding her own business. She's making her own money, which peers you told her to go and do. She's not. She's minding her own business.

She's left the country. She's not. Wait a while. We drove her out, let's be honest. She is using her royal titles, because it's all under the Duchess of Sussex, she is using her royal status to launch a pet food scam business. As is her right. As is her right, as is her business. Royal pet food.

I mean, I've heard it all. Good for you, Megan. Keep winding up the right people, peers. I'm sorry for you in this difficult time. I do feel for you. Francesca, I mean, you talked about the mad. Do you have pets, Pierce? I do have two Burmese cats.

Nice. Are they not deserving of royal food? Yeah. Let me tell you. Let me tell you. The pet food she's going to come up with will not be regal. It won't be royal. It's a scam. She's putting the royal seal of approval over regular pet food. You have a failed podcast. Trump can sell a Bible. I get it. So why not? Failed podcast documentary nobody watches.

Why not get into the pet food industry? Why not? You know what? You know what? Good for her. I don't have a problem. I don't have a problem not doing something with herself. I have a problem with using the royal title. I think that's distasteful. Because the thing is, she clearly is not fond of the institution, and yet she is prostituting her title to make money. Esther, that's a terrible word.

No, no, but she is. She and Harry use their royal titles to make themselves super rich. And you know what? Do you know who else used their title to do pretty terrible things? It was Prince Andrew. So why don't we talk about it? I agree. I agree.

Did you think he used, You said I was a prince and got women to sleep with them. Is that how you doing it? I want to end with this. This is Sam Smith, who I've been following on his tour, getting ever more ridiculous. Now, I've been asked to describe what's going on here, but I actually don't know how to describe. I mean, Francesca, you're progressive. Is this the way you see progressive America going?

A very pale man in Black Boostier with tights and what are those called? I'm trying, yes, so this is a podcast audience. There was a black sheath over his face, and it was removed. It was all very BDSM. Yeah. I think it's, I don't know why this is even a story. It's an artistic expression. It's funny.

It's cross-dressing. It's cool. I don't know. Like, let him do what he wants to do. Yeah, Vinnie, Vinnie, are you as moved by to Francesca? I have to say something. And that's, that's a typical answer. It's okay.

It's art. It's all right. They just had to put out a disclaimer. we're 16 and under, you can't show up to this thing. Okay? It's sexualizing everything, which all they're trying to do is sexualize these young kids. I thought he was a singer.

I thought this was a strip show. If I was there, I would have thrown dollars at him. Stop singing. Go to a strip club. Start making money that way. And the other videos, Peters, there's of him where he's doing satanic, red stuff.

And again, you always get this answer. It's art. Just let him live his truth. No, it's demonic. It's disgusting. That's why I'm happy Trump is selling Bible should be selling, I'm going to buy two of them. Nicely, you know what, Ervinny, nicely top and tailed there with the trans Bibles.

We've got to leave it there. Thank you to a brilliant panel. Sage, Francesca, Esther, Ava. Thank you all very much indeed. And Vinnie, thank you very much. Enjoy that discussion very much. I love you. Thank you.