Piers Morgan Uncensored - “We DON’T Trust You!” Should Trump Bomb Iran? Marandi vs Panel On Nuclear Talks

Episode Date: April 10, 2025

Donald Trump says the US will hold direct talks with Iran on Saturday over an end to its nuclear program - and the consequences of not making a deal could be deadly. The President’s shock announcement came after weeks of speculation about a US or Israeli attack - and the aging Ayatollah has put Iran’s military on its highest level of alert. The US has also been pounding the Iran-backed Houthis in Yemen, plus Trump shared a video of a drone strike with the words: “Oops. There will be no attack by these Houthis.” Tucker Carlson said “nothing would be more destructive to our country” and that a war on Iran would be “suicidal.” Is he right? To debate Piers Morgan invites Iranian academic Mohammad Marandi, host of the ‘Scott Horton Show’ Scott Horton and co-host of ‘The Verdict with Ted Cruz’ Ben Ferguson - plus he also speaks to ex CIA director and former US defense secretary Leon Panetta and British-Iranian lawyer and activist Elica Lebon. Uncensored is proudly independent and supported by: American Hartford Gold: Protect your wealth with precious metals! Call American Hartford Gold today & get up to $15,000 in free silver on your 1st order! Call 866-692-2474 or Text PIERS to 65532, or go to this link: https://offers.americanhartfordgold.com/piers-morgan/ Home Title Lock: Go to https://www.hometitlelock.com/piersmorgan and use promo code PIERS to get a FREE title history report so you can find out if you’re already a victim AND access to your Personal Title Expert - a $250 value - when you sign up! Jacked Up Fitness: Go to https://GetJackedUp.com and use code PIERS at checkout to save 10% off your entire purchase Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Any attack on Iran by the United States would be illegal and a war crime. It would not be Iraq. It would not be Afghanistan. The difference is that Iran can fight back. I never knew I was going to do TV with someone that's basically in a hostage video. We're not screwing around. We don't trust you. I don't think Iran needs to restore trust to America.

It's the United States that it's waging war after war. And I think your guest needs therapy. Your country chants death to America. with the Ayatollah leading the chant in front of the entire country. You want to talk about trust? Go take your medicine. This is a person that's not speaking with free speech, and even if he had free speech,

he would not be condemning this government because he served as an advisor to this government and as a member of the IRGC. You're just proving my point. I'm not supposed to talk. I'm the token oriental. Thank goodness for Dave Smith and for Tucker Carlson and for the rest of the people on the MAGA right

who know what America first means and a war with Iran is not an American national interest whatsoever. I said, I said, no, hold on. Hold on. You're taking what I said out of context. So I'm going to, I'm going to... President Trump says the U.S. will hold direct talks with Iran on Saturday over an end to its nuclear program.

The consequences of not making a deal could be deadly. I think if the talks aren't successful with Iran, I think Iran is going to be in great danger. and I hate to say it. Great danger because they can't have a nuclear weapon. You know, it's not a complicated formula. Iran cannot have a nuclear weapon. That's all there is.

We can't have it. Right now we have countries that have nuclear power that shouldn't have it. But I'm sure we'll be able to negotiate out of that too as part of this later on down the line. But Iran cannot have a nuclear weapon. And if the talks aren't successful, I actually think it'll be a very bad day for Iran, if that's the case.

Well, Trump's shock announcement came after weeks of speculation about a U.S. or Israeli attack. The aging Ayatollah has put Iran's military on its highest level of alert. The U.S. has also been pounding the Iran-backed hooties in Yemen, and Trump shared his video of a drone strike with the words, oops, there will be no attack by these hooties. But not everybody in the president's cab is enjoying this drumbeat of war. Tucker Carlson put this on X. He said nothing would be more destructive to our country

and that a war on Iran would be suicidal. Many people voted for Trump because he pledged to end wars, not start them. An influential wing of his base says the neocons are winning again at Israel's behest. So before these talks take place, we're going to have our own with each of these views represented. To debate, I'm joined by Professor Muhammad Miranda Randy from the University of Tehran, Scott Horton, the host of the Scott Horton show, and Ben Fuling. the co-host of Verdict with Ted Cruz. Welcome to all of you.

We'll also be joined later in the show by former CIA director and former U.S. Secretary of Defense, Leon Panetta. Okay. Professor Muhammad Miranda, welcome back to Unsensit. What is your reaction to Donald Trump saying Iran cannot have a nuclear weapon?

And if the talks aren't successful, I actually think it will be a very bad day for Iran. Well, first of all, I have to correct something. And that footage that Trump tweeted was of a tribal gathering for the Eid. And he murdered innocent people. They had nothing to do with ships. It had nothing to do with anti-ship missiles.

And anyone can look up, use a search engine to see that this is how traditional tribal gatherings take place. So that's just one more war crime for the United States. Iran is not developing a nuclear weapon. Even Tulsi Gabbard admits such, and the United States admits that Iran, for the last 20 years, at least, has not been developing a nuclear weapon. So Trump is being the elderly, Trump is being dishonest. When he says that Iran cannot have a nuclear weapon, he's implying that that is what Iran is pursuing. Iran is, its peaceful nuclear program is within the framework of international law. It is within the framework of the IAEA and the NPT.

And so any attack on Iran by the United States would be illegal and a war crime. And of course, the United States does not have a mandate on behalf of the UN or anywhere else. So it's just another act that it would just be another act of aggression. But the difference is that Iran can fight back. It would not be Iraq. It would not be Afghanistan. It would not even be Vietnam. All the small, tiny Arab dictatorships in the Persian Gulf that host U.S. bases would be complicit.

War would mean no more oil or gas from the Arabian Peninsula. That would bring about a global economic meltdown, and it would be the fault of the United States. And Iran can hit the United States back very hard. War is foolish, but the United States, since it has a history of bloodshed and aggression, Iran is preparing itself for such a possibility. All right, Ben Ferguson, your facial expression suggests you don't entirely agree with the professor. Yeah. I never knew I was going to do TV with someone that's basically in a hostage video,

but now I understand how much control Tehran has over propaganda with their professors. I love how he acts like Iran is somehow peaceful when you guys are sponsoring the terrorist attacks on the Israeli innocent people. You're sponsoring attacks on American soldiers. You back all of the terrorist organizations in essence in the Middle East right now. And then you say, oh, we're a peaceful group that doesn't like war. And America's the warmonger. I will tell you, take this message back to whoever controls what you say. We're not screwing around.

We don't trust you. You are a terrorist country that sponsors terrorism. You either come to the table and do a sensible deal, which allows for us to verify that you're not having a nuclear program or prepare for the consequences of what you guys are doing. And the president is not going to be bought into this BS that you just put out there. He knows you're a terrorist organization. He knows your sponsor terrorism. He knows you kill innocent people. He knows you want from the river of the sea to annihilate Israel.

And the president is never going to allow Iran to have a nuclear weapon. So I would wake up. I hope that you will actually stand up to your government and tell them this is not a opportunity to mess around with the United States. Donald Trump is not going to flinch. Do a deal to protect your own people in innocent lives. And the idea, as you say earlier, that there was a tribal gathering. This had nothing to do with attacking ships. Tells me how bad the propaganda is and how afraid maybe you are for your life with your own government, which is really sad.

Scott Horton, I mean, the general presumption. is that contrary to what the professor said, Iran, if it actually got involved in a direct military conflict with the United States, couldn't possibly survive very long if America flexed its military muscles. Because by comparison, Iran just wouldn't even be at first base. Is that your reading of it? Well, so there's a lot of things, you know, in question here. nobody in all of the talk of war with Iran for the last 25 years nobody's saying anything about invading the country and this is the real problem is we can't take out their anti-aircraft without sending in the special operations forces by the tens of thousands to lays those targets for the cruise missiles to hit before we can even get air dominance over the country and that means thousands and thousands of so-com lives lost at the very least in an attempt just to have an air war

over Iran. And back in January of 2007, W. Bush went to the Pentagon and they took him down into the tank. And the chiefs told them, yes, we'll go ahead and escalate the Iraq war with the surge, but we're not going to Iran. And they told them why was America does not have what they call escalation dominance. So in the event of an all-out war between America and Iran, would America a win eventually, of course. We got B-52s, comes down to it. We got H-bombs. They do not have atomic weapons. But we have a lot of conventional weaponry that we can bring to bear too in the event of a full-scale war. But you're talking about D-Day-type scale of invasion if we're going to actually conquer the country and guarantee regime change in Tehran,

which is just far more than the Pentagon was willing to bite off and chew then wisely. And I'm sure must be the case now. So that's only one part of it. of it, but I'd like to go back to the very first part of the framing of this whole thing. I don't know that I'm right about this, but it's obviously very dangerous. But I believe that what's going on here, and I'm not spinning for Trump either. I'm against this approach. But I believe that what's happening here is just like we saw with his threats against North Korea in his first term, when he threatened fire and fury like the world has never seen and all

of these things. He was really just trying to force Kim to the table. That's his idea of an opening negotiation point. And in this case, the Ayatollahs guys and Trump's guys are meeting this Saturday in Oman to start talking. And the Iranians have said they're not just going to capitulate to American demands, but of course they're open to negotiations. And Pierce, there's plenty of room for negotiation here because as the professor said, whether the Ayatollahs or the IRGC is holding a gun to his head or not, what he said is correct that Iran has a civilian nuclear program, which is, first of all, they're members of the Non-Poliferation Treaty of 19. And under that treaty, they have a safeguards agreement with the International Atomic Energy Agency, which they had long before even the Obama deal of 2015.

And so they were already guaranteed and safeguarded. And the IAEA had verified that they were not diverting nuclear material to any military purpose. So we already had that. Then when Obama came in, he added the deal of 2015, which essentially just scaled back Iran's civilian nuclear program. further and expanded inspections. And this is the deal that Trump unwisely at Netanyahu's behest tore up in 2018. So now that's the deal that Trump needs to get back into. He can call it something else and hopefully they can tweak a couple of things on the side. But there's no way in the world that Iran's going to just give up their civilian nuclear program because quite frankly, and I'm sure

your other guest, I see him shaking his head, but I'm sure he'll agree with this part, at least, that what Iran has is a latent nuclear capability. This is the same as Brazil or Japan, where they've proven that they have mastered the fuel cycle, they've proven that they can enrich uranium up to whatever percent they choose of uranium 235, including they could, they never have, they could obviously enrich up to weapons grade. And so what they're saying is, don't make me do it.

It's essentially a standoff. Iran is saying, if you bomb me, then I'll probably make nukes. but if you don't bomb me, I won't. And the Americans are saying, don't make nukes or will bomb you. So as long as everybody holds still, it's fine. And we can negotiate a more peaceful and cooperative relationship going forward

because, quite frankly, there's no reason to believe that I told it would make nukes unless we attack them. I want to be respectful, but I want to jump in here. There's no need to interrupt me. I'm willing to listen to you. Pierce Morgan Unsensored is now proudly independent, If you like the show, we ask for only one thing. Subscribe on YouTube and Followed Piers Morgan Uncensored

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description. Now on with the show. Okay, so here's the problem with this fantasy. The fantasy that you're putting out there is implying that Iran is somehow a responsible nation in the world that is not a terrorist nation. They are a terrorist nation. I said that they were verified by the idea. Wait, let me finish. Let me see. First of all, verifying and being on the edge of a nuclear weapon is two very different things. And what I look at is the actions of Iran, not what you're talking about, which is in this diplomatic kumbaya world, the actions of Iran are clear. They want to take out the little Satan and they want to hurt the big Satan. That's their

intentions. That's not their actions. Let me exist. Let me finish. Let me finish. Their intentions are to kill it. Let me finish. Let me finish. Their intentions are to kill innocent people. They did that in the training and the support of the attack on Israel. I deal with reality, not what they say in propaganda when people have guns to their heads. You look at their reality. They were in charge of killing more American troops when we were in the Middle East, backing it, supporting it, aiding it, the bombs that were used, the roadside bombs. They were all coming out of Iran. They gave safe haven to the people that were killing American troops.

They were proud of that. That is who they are. Yes, it is. Go back and look at the reports. You look at Al-Qaeda and ISIS, and where were they getting them? the information, the intelligence and the technology to kill American troops with roadside bombs. They were getting it in Iran. Listen, you don't even have your eyes straight.

Hamas, Hezbollah. Again, I'm not going to sit here and act like, just because it comes from you that I'm wrong, that I have the propaganda right, because it's reality based in what happens, sir. And the reality is Iran loves terrorist organizations in the Middle East that will go after American interests, true or false. When America's in the Middle East, Iran is backing the terrorists that come after us, true or false. Every time in my lifetime, they've gone after American interests. And they do it in Israel as well.

So this idea that you can like sit down with these people like they are sane, when clearly the leadership is a terrorist nation that wants to kill Americans and Jews, you cannot allow them to have a nuclear program because they are terrorists. They're not responsible citizens in the world. They're not a responsible government in the world. I'm not naive enough to think they'll ever be. Okay, well, listen, Pierce, let me respond to a couple of things here. Hang on one second.

Hang on one second. Scott, I'm going to bring you back because we've got the former CIA director and former U.S. Secretary of Defense, Leon Panetta, now joining us. Mr. Ben, thank you very much for being back on Uncensored. This comment from Donald Trump that if Iran tries to pursue a nuclear weapon, he says he can't have one. aren't successful, it would be a very bad day for Iran. What's your view of that? Well, Pierce, it's not a new position on the part of the United States. It goes back to President Obama, who basically made clear that the United States would not

allow Iran to build a nuclear weapon. And that was true for Trump, and it's also true for Biden. And so it is very much a position that the United States. has made clear that it will not allow Iran to build a nuclear weapon. Now, Iran is enriching fuel when Trump rejected the agreement that would have put some limits on enrichment and that was working. Unfortunately, there wasn't a strategy to try to deal with Iran enriching fuel. And so Iran has gone ahead and enriched a lot of fuel.

And some in the intelligence arena think that they are within a few weeks of being able to develop a nuclear weapon. And so that's the concern. And that's why I think both Israel and the United States are making clear that neither will allow Iran to, in fact, build a nuclear weapon. That is a position that the United States has continually taken in a number of years. Do you think Iran is more or less of a threat that it was, say, 10, 15 years ago? Well, there's no question that Israel went after Iran in the midst of the Gaza War not only weaken their proxies, weakened Hamas, weakened Hezbollah, weaken other proxies, but also did some damage directly to Iran.

And the proof of that is the fact that when Assad was stepping down and the hope that Iran and others would come to his aid, Iran didn't come to Assad's aid. Russia didn't come to Assad's aid. And so it's pretty clear that Iran has been weakened. Having said that, they still remain dangerous. They still are enriching fuel. They're still building missiles. and they do continue to support proxies in that region. So they remain a threat. Hopefully the United States and Iran can't sit down and negotiate some kind of agreement that can again restore limits on enrichment. That's the hope we all have.

One of the issues, of course, that's acting as a kind of backdrop to all this is that America is currently engaged in an unprecedented global, tariff war, an economic war, if you like, on almost every other country in the world. What do you think of that and how relevant is America's economic power to what it can do with, say, Iran at the same time? Well, it's obvious that right now there's a lot of concern about what's happening with our economy and what's happening with this trade war that's going on with China and the rest of the world and there's a great deal of concern that that could very well weaken our economy and possibly

even have us in a recession. So there is a lot of concern right now about the future of our economy and what will happen. At least there's a lot of uncertainty about the direction of our economy at this point. And that could very well weaken our national security as well. So we've got to have a strong economy. We've got to maintain a strong military. We've got to be able to try to work with, frankly, work with our allies to try to ensure that we are doing everything necessary to try to prevent our adversaries in the world from being able to take advantage of the United States at this moment in time.

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get there. That's home titlelock.com promo code peers, P-I-E-R-S, to get the protection and peace of mind that you deserve. And just finally, Mr. Beneta, do you think that America under Donald Trump is more or less likely to achieve a peace deal both in Gaza between Israel, obviously, and Gaza and Hamas, and also in Ukraine, given where we now see both of those wars. Well, it's not an encouraging moment, that's for sure. I mean, President Trump himself said that he would be able to bring peace to the world in all of these areas soon after he took office. And that obviously hasn't happened. He's made an effort

to try to achieve a ceasefire. The ceasefire in Israel has broken down, and there's renewed warfare in Israel, and the effort to try to achieve a ceasefire in Ukraine. We had Ukraine agreeing through a 30-day ceasefire. And unfortunately, Putin pretty much rejected that approach, walked away from it, and continues to attack Ukraine. So right now, I have to tell you that we're all pretty discouraged about the ability to achieve peace, some kind of meaningful peace, in those two areas of the world that are at war. Leo Panetta, as always, great to have you on our censor. Thank you very much. Good to be with you, Chris.

Okay, let's go back to the panel. Professor Miranda, it's been a lot to unpack since we first spoke on this panel. There's a lot of distrust, as you know, from America towards Iran. A lot of distrust on this panel, from Ben Ferguson to everything you're saying. How do you restore trust in America? I don't think Iran needs to restore trust to America. States that it's waging war after war. And I think your guess probably has lost a lot of money on the stock market. Otherwise, I think he needs therapy. But beyond that, it's quite clear.

Which country chance death to America? Your country. Well, your country chance death to America. You want to talk about trust? I don't know what the hell the stock market has to do with the fact that I have a problem with a country that chants death to America with the Iatollah leading the chant in front of entire country. You want us to trust you again. Stop chanting that. Stop sponsoring terrorism. I seriously, I really think you do have psychological problems. But if, Pierce, if you allow me, otherwise I don't know why I'm on this panel, it's quite clear that the problems between the United States and Iran stem from, come from the United States. The United States carried out a clue in Iran, imposed the Shah, rebuilt the secret police, the Savak. Then the United

United States supported Saddam Hussein in his war against Iran. The West gave Saddam chemical weapons. I survived two chemical attacks. One was mustard gas and one was a nerve agent. And the West collectively was behind Saddam. Then they attacked Iran. Did you guys hold Americans hostage in our embassy in 1979 just out of curiosity? Or do you just guys whitewash all of that with the propagator? Yes, that's a good point, actually. Students took the embassy because the, United States, your regime. Wasn't students. It was the Shah and the team, buddy. Come on.

Your regime gave refuge to the Shah who was a mass murderer who had slaughtered people on the streets, and they wanted him back. The United States was aiding and abetting a mass murder who they were supporting. So the...

You guys ate and mass murder every day when you support terrorist organizations. Will you ever stop supporting the terrorist organizations? Forget America for a second. You guys kill innocent people in the Middle East. You guys chant death to Israel. So forget America. Will you stop supporting the terrorist organizations?

Yeah, your government is the government that supports terrorists. Your government helped create ISIS and a bad for you. It must be miserable living in a prison where if you speak out against your government, you will be one of the disappeared ones because that's what happens if people to stand up to your terrorist government. You disappear. arrested at your where you're, yes, you're right. People in your country are arrested and deported and deported. I can say whatever I want to in America.

I'm like with you in Iran. You can say whatever you want. Dude, your government propaganda. I feel bad for you. Like freedom is not what you do. If you don't want me to talk. Let me ask you this question. Has your country, let me ask you this, professor.

Professor, I want to ask you a question. Have you ever disagreed, ever publicly with your government? government in Iran on any one major issue, have you ever spoken out? Or are you so afraid of your government that you know if you do, you will be one of the disappeared ones? Since I'm sure your problems are... One example. Just one example. You don't have one because you can. I feel bad for you. But if you knew, if you, if you, if your problems are deep and serious, but if you knew Persian, all you have to do is go and look at my interviews. You cannot answer.

that question. And you can go and watch me on infusion and see what I say about different administrations. But Pierce, if you don't want... Oh, let me jump in. No, I do want you. United States, don't invite me.

Don't invite me. No. Professor, I often invite you because I want to hear the perspective from Iran, as you know. But it's an interesting question that Ben puts there, which is we're having a kind of panel debate here, which is unlikely to be tolerated in Iran in a broadcast manner. You know, can you think of anything right now, as Ben said,

where you would criticize your government, for example, would you be prepared to do that publicly now or not? Or is there a feeling that you can't do that with the Iranian regime? Pierce. Be mature, grow up. You are the person who I am. He can't. He can't.

to come to Iran, you are the person, go take your medicine. You are the person who I invited to come to Iran to visit the country and you refuse the invitation. So you're not in a position to ask the question. You're not a serious, you're not. I wouldn't come to land either. I don't want to disappear like you're afraid of. Well, I'm glad you won't come because we'd have to spend a lot of money on therapy for you. And it's, we have enough problems because of the sanctions. But that aside, Let me ask another question. Yes, bring in Scott. Because this guy really is, is there any terrorist activity that you condemn that your government has funded?

Do you condemn the attack on the innocent people in Israel or any other attack by any terrorist organization that you guys have funded? Is there ever a moment in Iranian history in your lifetime where you say supporting that terrorist organization funding aiding training, you would condemn the attacks and the death of innocent people anywhere in the world? I condemn and I condemn ethno supremacism and an apartheid regime, and I condemn this Holocaust, and I condemn what POSB paid for by the regime, that the United States supports and supported ISIS and al-China, and they brought them to power in Syria.

I want to bring you his job. That is what I condemn, and that is what the globe, condemns. And inside the United States, you can talk all you want and you can convince Christian Zionists who think that Christ supports genocide. You can convince them that what you're saying makes sense. But outside of the United States, people are seeing what's going on in God's every day. I can't imagine how careful you must be in your government in the zillian response. I want to bring in Scott. Guys, I want to bring in Scott. Making America healthy again is all the rage. And many people are inspired to put their

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Scott, I want to play you a clip from Dave Smith, who was on my show recently, and he said this afterwards. If Donald Trump actually does launch a war in a round, not only will I not support it, I will apologize for the rest of my life for voting for the guy. I have loyalty to my principles and my country and my family. Now, that's adding to the, voice of Tucker Carlson and others on the right. There's no doubt that I think if Donald Trump was to attack Iran, it would not have widespread support on the Republican side. In fact, you could see large numbers of Republicans and conservative commentators criticizing that move, which makes it quite a perilous political decision for Donald Trump. Yeah, well, especially considering

and how it's likely to play out. But I just say thank goodness for Dave Smith and for Tucker Carlson and for the rest of the people on the MAGA right and the America First right who know what America First means. And it doesn't mean Israel instead. It means American national interests

and a war with Iran is not an American national interest whatsoever. Tucker Carlson and Dave Smith are both 100% right about that. And man, I got to tell you, I almost voted for Trump peers. And especially when I heard that guy, Smith filed new charges in the middle of October. I was like, no, that's it. I'm voting Republican. I can't stand. The Democrats deserve to be punished like they just burned Waco yesterday.

I despise them. And I almost did, but I couldn't do it. And the reason why is because Trump is so beholden to Zionism and Israel. And it just is such, and we know this from the last time that he was in office. It is such a huge flaw in making America great and putting America first is Israel. instead. And there's just no question that our anti-Iran policy is born in Tel Aviv. You know, our friend here mentioned the Iranian Revolution in 1979. Well, that egg was on the face of Zabignau Brizinski. He was Jimmy Carter's National Security Advisor. And he was the one just as much as Carter, who was humiliated by the Iranian Revolution and the hostage crisis and the rest. Absolutely. But by 1993, the old, mean old Ayatollah Khomeini was dead. The new Ayatollah was in. They had a

reformist president named Rafsenjani who was in who was all about trying to kiss up to america and brazynski said we should build the oil pipeline from the caspian basin across iran to the persian gulf that way to make money and also to begin to warm up relations with iran let the bat let bygones be bygones and according to steve levin in his um uh book on the pipeline wars and according to the Washington Post. It was the Israel lobby back in 1993 that vetoed this warming of relations with the United States. And Brzezinski lost that battle. Instead, they famously made the BTC pipeline, cutting out Iran and Russia both. And so, and then on top of that, it was Yitzhak Shamir's advisor, Martin Indick, who came in, and this is in Bill Clinton's first year and said,

where Clinton wanted to try to normalize relations with Iraq and Iran, it was the Israelis that insisted on the dual containment policy, which said Iraq is so weak because you just beat it up in Iraq War I, but now Iraq isn't powerful enough to balance against Iran. So now America has to stay in Saudi Arabia to bomb Iraq and to blockade Iraq and enforce the sanctions also against Iran throughout the 1990s. And Pierce, as I'm sure you know,

this is the primary cause of the September 11th attack. This is what caused America, Britain, and Saudi Arabia's terrorist mercenaries to turn against the United States was bombing Iraq from bases in Saudi Arabia, a policy insisted upon by the Israelis. And it was also, of course, Israel's merciless violence against the people of Palestine and Lebanon that caused Egyptian engineering students studying in Hamburg to go volunteer for a Saudi, says Kamikaze our towers as revenge for what Israel is doing.

You haven't looked at the writings of Osama bin Laden and Khalid Sheikh Mohammed the master 9-11. I can't hear what you're saying. I wasn't done talking yet. What? Hold on. Well, I don't care if you were not done. I listened to you for a long time

go off on something that's not factually accurate. So Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the mastermind 9-11, if you look at what he has said, he would say what you just said is not accurate. That's the guy that mastermind 9-11. That's what he said. Go look at everything that he said. He said a lot more than that.

And I'm sorry that it's not as simplistic as trying to make it out to be. Osama bin Laden's own writings. Osama bin Laden's own writings are disagree with your simplistic way of describing this. But, Peers, let me go back to the core issue here, which is today and now. I'm not in favor of invading Iran. I'm in favor of making sure we do what we have to do to make sure they do not have a nuclear weapon. Because Iran cannot be trusted with a nuclear weapon. weapon full stop. We know this from centuries of what they have done. Again, let me finish what I'm

saying, and then you can disagree. They're weeks away from having what you need for a nuclear bomb. I believe Iran when they chant death to America and death to Israel. And the idea that somehow this is, you know, this isolationist idea that some have in the MAGA group, and I disagree with them, that this is the fault of a connection between Israel and America. Look at who is chanting death to America and death to Israel, who refers to the big Satan, the little Satan. You want to get two people together, then talk about them that way, because they will get together. So the fault of this allegiance between Israel and America is the fault of the terrorist organization, which is Iran. And when you chant it and you do it and you back it and you aid it and you fund it,

the terrorism, you get the situation we're in right now. America and Israel did not create the situation. The damn terrorist did it in Iran. and they've been doing it for decades. Okay, well, what's funny is after the revolution. Hang on, Scott. Hang on, Scott, because we're just got another contributor joining us briefly. Elico Le Bonn, the British Iranian attorney, who's no stranger to uncensored. So welcome back to you, Elyca.

It seems to be a pretty critical moment here for Iran, for what America may do with Iran. Donald Trump making it very clear if these talks that they're, going to have about Iran's agreeing not to have a nuclear weapon fail, then all hell's going to break loose. What do you make of that? Well, I mean, first I just want to address some of the things that have been covered already because we're seeing already a lot of hypocrisy. We're talking about, you know, ethno-supremacy. We're talking about apartheid, completely ignoring the religious supremacy that exists in Iran, completely ignoring the gender apartheid that exists in Iran. I'm sorry, you cannot be against apartheid when you're in support of justice.

gender apartheid. And as the Ben mentioned, this is a person that's not speaking with free speech. And even if he had free speech, he would not be condemning this government because he served as an advisor to this government and as a member of the IRGC. So you have a dual motivation not to be honest. And this conversation cannot be honest with a person of that stature. And then you go to the gentleman who starts talking about how all of this sectarian violence and terrorism is because of the US and Western interference. This is straight up jihadist. propaganda because even in Osama bin Laden's letter to America, everything he said was a lie. He talked about interference in Yemen here, there and the other. He was the one that was

blowing up people in Yemen. He is the jihadist. He is the one that wanted to destroy the Middle East. And by using Western imperialism as a cudgel to expand their own Islamist expansionism and to support that, to use that as propaganda is to literally proliferate jihadism. as propaganda. And so, no, I don't respect any of these opinions that have been offered. In terms of what's going on now with the potential war with Iran, this is a direct result of failing to support the people's uprising, failing to properly enforce sanctions that have strengthened the regime, that have financially strengthened the regime, that have increased its networks, its exports, its complicated banking systems that allow it to move money from these oil exports,

smuggling, all of these ways that have enriched the regime by abandoning the Iranian people who could have and would have taken out the regime for itself so that we wouldn't have to get to this position of war. So yeah, you can be anti-war, but you cannot be pro-jihadist and pro-terror and blame everything that the terrorists do on the actions of the West. And by doing so, you are fueling into jihadist propaganda and not just fueling into jihadist propaganda. you are playing directly into the racism of low expectations by assuming that Middle Eastern people are completely incapable of evil without the devil made them do it justification,

that the West encouraged them to do something that they've been doing for 1,400 years. So if it's Western imperialism that caused jihadism, what caused jihadism in the 7th century? When it expanded across the entire Middle East and North Africa, which is an imperialist expansion, It is not from Western imperialism. Western imperialism may have helped.

It is an indigenous movement from the Arabian Peninsula out into the Middle East. That is imperialism. All right, Professor Miranda, you've been listening to that. What is your response to, Alicqqqqabon? Well, yes. You definitely don't want anyone from Iran to talk. That's obvious. You bring in guests out of gas.

Well, why are you on the show? And then you have this guy. You're literally an invited guest on my show. No, you don't let me talk. If I'm not going to be interrupted. My medication is freedom, brother. Maybe you should have some in your life. That's my medication.

It's called freedom. Well, no, to be clear. Hang on, to be clear, Professor Miranda, the only difference between this appearance and your previous ones is that always before you've appeared on your own. And this time we thought it would be more interesting to have other panelists who don't share your views, who might have their own insight into what happens. in Iran.

And it seems to me, hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on, and it seems. No, but it seems to me, it seems to me, though, Professor Morandi, you don't like being challenged by other people, do you? That's the reality. I'm from Iran, sir. I'm from Iran. But let me tell you something.

Let me tell you something. I'm Iranian. You're just proving my point. Listen, listen, listen to me. You're just proving my point. I'm not supposed to. I'm echoing the voice of the Iranian people inside Iran. You cannot sit where you're sitting.

They cannot sit where you're not. You're not achieving anything by this. You enjoy the privilege. You have prevented me from speaking. All right. Let's allow. All right, Aleka, let's let Professor Miranda now respond. Professor Miranda.

But I haven't finished my sentence for him to respond. Can I finish my sentence? Wait a minute, Aleka. Don't talk over him. That didn't respond. Yeah. I'm glad that they've proven my point. And that was the objective all along.

You have a token Iranian to pretend that you have an open debate. And then you bring in people one after another. And I have not interrupted a single person. I have not interrupted anyone. But anyway, just to respond. First of all, we all know who created al-Qaeda. We all know who created ISIS. We all know who created the tragedy in Afghanistan.

It actually began before the Soviet Union invaded. Brezensky proposed a plan to Carter, and that's when things began to roll. And the 1980s was the decade where al-Qaeda was on the rise. Then in Syria, we had Operation Timber Sikkimar, your American guest speaks about who do I condemn terrorism. And Operation Timber Sycamore, the terrorists which they supported in Libya and destroyed Libya, which today is a destroyed country,

those terrorists were taken to Turkey and also from Jordan to bring down the Syrian government. And Tulsi Gabbard, who is, in Trump's administration, she said that we supported these terrorist groups, ISIS and al-Qaeda, which now have taken Syria. These are not the words of an Iranian. Other than that, what we're seeing in Gaza, you've gone over this many times. This did not begin on October the 7th. This has been going on for decades. Are you saying Iran has never supported ISIS or al-Qaeda? Is that what you're saying? that Iran has never aided or abetted ISIS or Al Qaeda, and somehow ISIS and al-Qaeda has operated outside of the sphere or influence or money or weaponry coming from Iran? Are you insane? Or is

this just, are there people in the room pointing guns at you right now? And this is the propaganda you have to share. The defense intelligence agency document of 2012. Have you ever, are you telling me that Iran has never supported al-Qaeda or ISIS operators. Yes or no? It declares very clearly who supported ISIS and al-Qaeda in Syria. Dude. And that they were creating a salivated.

I've never watched a hostage video like this in my life. This is really sad. I didn't realize it was this bad for you guys in Iran, but man, it's bad. Listen, the fact of the matter is this guy is completely. Ben, Ben, Ben, Ben. No, let me just answer. It's not bad. It's not bad.

As I said before. But no, don't interrupt. You said you don't interrupt. the document of the Defense Intelligence Agency, 2000. Well, General Michael Flynn, you are interrupting the female balance. You are interrupting. Okay. I did say I didn't interrupt.

Let me let me finish. I haven't been speaking. Because you interrupted me when you started speaking again. You are right that is so bad in Iran. Okay, I want to clarify this. You're so right that it's bad in Iran, that the actual people that represent the people of Iran cannot come to this show. And this is a person that enjoys the privilege of siding with the regime and therefore his voice can be heard. But what you're wrong about is the idea that he would criticize this regime if he had the chance.

It doesn't matter if he had freedom of speech. He would not criticize this regime because he is a supporter of this regime. And that's evident in his ideologies. As with the gentleman beside him, both of these people are people who indirectly or directly support. support the regime by whitewashing their crimes and just counterfactual narratives about how the West created Islamist groups, when these Islamism has existed for 1,400 years. And the revival of that was after the collapse of the Ottoman Empire. That's when the Islamic revivalist movement, and that was nothing to do with Western imperialism. That was the idea that they wanted to restore the Islamic

caliphate. And everything that they've done in furtherance of that has been behind. behind the pretext of anti-Western imperialism, you talk about how, yes, Carter absolutely did so much damage by not just supporting the Taliban in Afghanistan, but also bringing this regime to power by supporting Khomeini, by fermenting anti-Shah sentiments to galvanize the 1979 revolution. But what you're ignoring,

is that while the West facilitated this through imperialism, those factions existed because it is a rudiment of the Middle East. And to deny that is to deny the agency and ability of Middle East and people to engage in the same evil, if not more, as the West. And if you deny that, you are not being honest. All right. Let me go here for a minute. Scott Horton. What we have here is an obvious and basic, aggressive refusal to distinguish between the Sunnis and the Shiites in the current wars over there. In Iraq War II, 4,000 Americans died fighting against the Sunni-based insuffer. that was led by al-Qaeda in Iraq was the vanguard of that and they fought on the side of

the Shiite alliance which was also backed by Iran that was Skiri, Dawa, and the Sautterists. Now, when our friend here says that Iran backed guys that killed the Americans in Iraq War II, that wasn't backing al-Qaeda and the radical Sunnis against America. That was their support for Mukta al-Sauder, who America was fighting the whole war for but also for a short time in 2004 and in 2007 turned on him and attacked him. And 500 Americans died fighting Iraqi Shiites, not Iranians. And as I demonstrated my book enough already, I got 10 different sources of American reporters there

where American soldiers found these factories where they were making these EFP roadside bombs in Iraq, being made by Iraqis. Okay? So no, Iran did not back al-Qaeda. They backed the same side America backed against al-Qaeda in Iraq War II.

And then you talk about Syria. You say that Iran backed Al-Qaeda. The question I asked was not about that. Hold on, no, let me finish it. Come on, man. But you're taking me out of context. I said, no, hold on. Hold on.

You're taking what I said out of context. So I'm going to finish. What I said was, are you telling me? No, no, I'm telling you. You're not listening to what I'm telling you. Just listen. It'll take it. It'll take nine seconds.

It'll take nine seconds. What I said was, are you telling me that Iran has never back al-Qaeda or ISIS, period, full stop. For the time that al-Qaeda and ICE have been alive, has Iran not backed them. I do know, I know that Iran is back-I-Sis and al-Qaeda at different points. Now you can go up on your tirade and tell your book. I'm fine with it. Iran-backed-Tes-Bala. Oh, for God.

sake, man. I'm going to finish this. I swear to God. It ran backed the Syrian government and Hasbala and Russia against al-Qaeda and ISIS in the Syrian war. You just don't even know whose side who is on here. And you're trying to lecture me about it. I didn't go to an exact time that you're talking about. I said in a lifetime, not the Shiites. I said in the lifetime of ISIS and al-Qaeda, has Iran ever backed them. The answer is yes. No. I didn't, I'm not talking about in this exact moment that you're talking about. I said over the lifetime, over the lifetime of Iran, you're telling me on TV right now.

You say when Iran has never backed ISIS or Al-Qaeda, you're insane. You're a joke if you want to look at you and tell me that Iran has never backed them. No, Iran is. Golly, man. Like sell your book, but I'm sorry. It's stupid. Let's take your question. Let's look at who does suicide attacks inside Iran.

It's ISIS that does two side attacks inside Iran. Let's take your statement as it is. You said that the regime in Iran backs Hezbollah and it backed Assad. What was that backing for? Can you clarify? In general. Because why does the regime in Iran back Hezbollah in Lebanon as an act of imperialism and Assad in Syria act as an act of imperialism?

Explain. Well, I mean, Hezbollah. Okay, Professor Moran. Maybe you can respond to that. Nothing to say? No. No, no, no, I want this question. His ghost rider didn't write that part of the book, apparently.

I want you to answer the question. Look, go on, tell me. I'll answer the question for you if you can't answer. I'm perfectly willing to answer the question here. Hasbala was created in reaction to the Israeli invasion of Lebanon in the early 1980s. They didn't even come into existence until after the Beirut bombing of 1983. No, that's not true. Israelis invaded to attack the PLO, but they mistreated the poor Palestinian, I mean, the poor Lebanese Shiites who had nothing to do with the PLO and force them into resistance.

Now, that's not to justify everything that Hezbollah has done, but that's the true origin of their parties. That's not the true. And then, yes, it's true that Iran has supported them since then. And I'm not saying that that's a good thing. You need to fight a ghostwriter, man. No, no. That's the reason that America's intervened in. the Middle East is to try to break the Iran-Syria-Hazbal alliance and they keep only making a powerful because it is a dangerous terrorist alliance. What does it have to take to get through to you?

The way that Hezbollah was created was that after the establishment of the regime in 1979, the IRGC asked for a corridor through Syria to get to Lebanon and then it started its ideological exportation into Lebanon in order to create an Islamic Republic in Lebanon. This is an act of imperialism. And Nasrullah himself came out and said that the objective of Hezbollah through the regime in Iran was to create a second Islamic Republic in Iran. And Nasrullah himself said, no, don't interrupt me. Nasrullah himself said that the Hezbollah's budget eats, drinks, and breathes from the regime in Iran. And what does it do in exchange? It's quit- They don't exist without them.

Is to act as the front line in the regime's proxy war against Israel. Okay, so it's a mutually beneficial relationship that is rooted in pure imperialism and Islamist expansion. And if you support that, you are an imperialist. Which explains perfectly. Okay, I want to know. The bin Ladenites against the Shiites because that's what Israel wants. Even though the bin Ladenites are the ones that knock the towers down, not have Balas. by Hezbollah and the regime in Iran, correct?

Hasbalah did knock the towers down. That was the Sunnis that did that. What has that got to do with Israel? Okay, I want to want to end by asking Professor Morandi. Israel is the victim of-Hesvolta. Listen, all right, time out. I want to ask Professor Miranda to finish this, the way we started, which is that Donald Trump has laid down a very clear directive.

Iran cannot have a nuclear weapon. Do you believe Iran will develop a nuclear weapon in spite of what the president is saying? Well, Pierce, first of all, from I think your audience can see who is calm and who is irrational, who's logical and who's illogical, I think enough has been said. But I just want to point out a couple of things before I respond to that. One is that it seems as if it is Iran that has occupied Palestine, it is Iran. Iran that occupied Iraq. Iran occupied Afghanistan. Iran occupies Syria. Iran occupies Libya. Iran occupies parts of Yemen. You just support all the terrorists that killing us in people there.

You're a good point. You don't occupy. You just support the terrorists that do the work. It seems to me that Hezbollah, which was created in 1982, was rightly pointed out. It was a national liberation organization that expelled the Israeli regime from. Lebanon, which occupied the capital of Lebanon. And Israel existed. Terrorists. Terrorists. Terrorists. How do they mean terrorists? Sound like, guys. You fool. The resistance in Palestine existed. This is going to come to a shock to these two people. But the resistance in Palestine began before the revolution. You did your job today. Okay. You're going to live to see another day of propaganda. Good job. The resistance in Palestine began before the revolution in Iran.

But, you know, these two people... But can you answer my question? We're talking about Hamas. Yeah, but he can answer your question, because he'll be disappointed if he answers your question. All right, time out. Professor Moran, let me... Professor Miranda, answer my question.

Do you believe Iran will develop a nuclear weapon in spite of what Donald Trump has said? Iran has said from day one that it is not developing a nuclear weapon, and that is what U.S. intelligence agencies have been saying for years. And just recently, Tulsi Gabbard's organization has repeated the same thing over again, that Iran is not developing a nuclear weapon. What is happening is that the United States is being pushed by the Zionist lobby and the Israeli regime towards confrontation, a confrontation that it will not win.

No one will win on this planet. But in any case, the Iranians have a right to peaceful nuclear program. The Iranians will continue to have a peaceful nuclear program. And if the United States behaves rationally and not like these two guests of yours, if the United States behaves rationally at the negotiating table, there can be an agreement. We already had an agreement, Pierce, in 2015. And the Iranians were the ones that abided by the agreement.

And then you supported more terrorism when we gave you billions of dollars from the Obama administration. Calm down. You proliferated terrorism from the dollars we sent you. It was stupid from Obama. The Iranians abided by the nuclear deal. The Iranians abided by the nuclear deal. Obama violated it. Then Trump tore up the deal.

And even after Pierce, even after Trump tore it because it was a worthless deal because you guys were still sponsoring terrorism. Even after, calm down, even after Trump tore up the deal, the Iranians fully implemented the deal for a year. And then for the second year, the Iranians decreased their commitment stage by stage, which took another year. So two years after Trump imposed maximum price of defense, bombing Iran's nuclear site, this is why. Then began to restart its nuclear program. He may have no choice. So who is at fault here?

Iran at the United States. All right, we're going to leave it there. It was a fiery debate. Wait, let me just say. Go on those, Scott, quickly. The professor is correct that Tulsi Gabbard, the Director of National Intelligence, they just released their threat assessment. Anyone can look it up at dn.gov,

and their new threat assessment says Iran is not developing a nuclear weapon. They have not made the political decision to begin to make a nuclear weapon. Your other guest says that they're just such a crazy irresponsible power, but quite factually, they mastered the fuel site. just said it accurately. They are weeks away from being able to create one. 20 years ago. And I'm not a big fan of Panetta, by the way.

They still, Jesus, they still haven't made an atom bomb, even though they've been able to for 20 years. And that shows, again, they have a latent nuclear deterrent. And they've been so far responsible with it. And we could have another nuclear deal and we can normalize relations with Iran. It doesn't mean it's not a tyranny. Why would he want to normalize relations with a terrorist? regime. Why do you want to normalize? That's not a threatened United States.

They say death to America all the time. They kill American soldiers. They care of American soldiers. Right now they do it. Hang on. Hang on. Let me get my word in here. Let me be clear.

This guy's not conservative or MAGA. He's a lefty. I don't want him to masquerade as a conservative anymore. We are not the same. He's a whole. Let me answer. Let me answer your question. Yes, you are.

If you're a conservative, I don't want to be a conservative anymore. I do. No, you're not. You're just a liberal. Be honest about who you are. You know what? My ears are beginning. My ears can't take any more of this.

Let me respond. My ears can't take any more of this. No, no, we're done. My adrons are about to explode. So we've reached the end. Thank you to my panel for a spirited and lively debate. And we ended on a point of mass disagreement. which probably sums up where we are with this whole debate to start with.

Thank you all very much. Pierce Morgan Unsensored is proudly independent. The only boss around here is me. If you enjoy our show, we ask only one simple thing. Hit subscribe on YouTube and follow Pierce Morgan Unsensored on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. And in return, we will continue our mission to inform, irritate and entertain. And we'll do it all for free.

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