Piers Morgan Uncensored - 'We Thought We Might Lose Him' Jordan Peterson Update + Chris Williamson On Health Battle

Episode Date: October 7, 2025

Mikhaila Peterson joins Piers Morgan to give an update on her father Jordan Peterson, who has been suffering with a series of health issues after being exposed to mould. Mikhaila gives the latest update on her dad’s health and tells Piers why she thinks something ‘demonic’ may be at play.Meanwhile, America is overfed, overmedicated and overcharged by a healthcare system which is more expensive than any other in the world - but still often gets worse results, all while spending billions of dollars advertising medications that aren’t making people healthy.There’s an obesity crisis, a loneliness crisis and a mental health crisis, among many others.So it should come as no surprise that influential people with a positive message and alternative solutions have so much currency in popular culture - and two of these join Piers; Chris Williamson and Gary Brecker.Piers Morgan Uncensored is proudly independent and supported by::Oxford Natural: To watch their full stories, scan the QR code on your screen or visit https://oxfordnatural.com/piers/ to get 70% off your first order when you use code PIERS.OneSkin: Get 15% off OneSkin with the code PIERS at https://www.oneskin.co/ #oneskinpod Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

It kind of happened out of the blue. He was fine, and in two weeks you couldn't walk. And he kind of recovered and then went on tour. And then he got really sick after that, and he kind of deteriorated throughout the summer. We didn't really know what was going on because it was so severe. Have you had moments when you thought you might lose him? Yeah. It's been really, really, really, really scary.

I think there's a large spiritual element at play. I think there's a demonic element that's hating people. Now, I also think mold is what's making us sick. Over the weekend, you just released a show. shocking news of a documentary following you for 18 months. America is a very fun country with lots of good stuff in it, but the environment is not particularly welcoming to people that aren't used to it. So the food, the environmental stresses that are in there,

I lived in a house for two years that had toxic mold. One pathology per month. Every single month last year, I had to cross off one of these things. Over the last 18 months, there's been times where I just can't believe how much life sucks. think that we're going to see life extension to age 12, 140, within the next five years. What is his biological age, would you say, Christian? 15 or 18 years younger than his biological age, no question. America is overfed, overmedicated, and overcharged by a healthcare system,

which is more expensive than any other in the world, but still often gets worse results, or while spending billions of dollars, advertising medications that obviously aren't making people healthy. There's an obesity crisis, a loneliness crisis, and a mental health crisis, among many others. She come as no surprise that influential people were the positive message and that alternative solutions have so much currency in popular culture.

Two of those people just happen to be with me now. Gary Brecker and Chris Williamson, join me in just a moment. We begin first with Michaela Peterson, the co-founder of the Peterson Academy and Jordan Peterson's daughter for whom health is sadly a very pertinent topic right now. Michaela, thank you, first of all,

for joining me on Uncensored. I had no idea until I read some of your posts on X in the last couple of days that your father, Jordan, a regular guest on this show, has been so seriously ill. First of all, please, first of all, accept my deepest condolences for his condition. Second, what is his current condition? And how is he doing?

So he was diagnosed with SERS, which is chronic inflammatory response syndrome, a couple of years ago. and that syndrome is usually brought on by mold exposure. The house that I grew up in in Toronto was really badly exposed to black mold and whatever else in the basement. And that circulated through the H-Fax and we were all kind of ill. Well, extremely ill, not kind of ill, extremely ill. And then we managed to put a lot of those symptoms into remission with dietary changes. But a couple of years ago, when I moved to Miami, I got sick again, even on the diet. and I've been only eating meat for eight years to like mitigate these symptoms.

And I got sick on the diet and we figured out it was from mold exposure. So my dad and I have a lot of similar symptoms. And we figured out his kind of neurological symptoms, a lot of like pain and neuropathy and penitity towards anxiety, things like that were potentially caused by mold exposure. And there's like a host of blood work you can do. It's scientifically rigorous compared to dietary intervention. intervention. And over the last year, you know, he never did the SERS treatment like I did because he was off busy changing the world. So like around Christmas, he went back to my childhood

house and after about two weeks he wasn't able to walk. It kind of happened out of the blue. He was fine. He recorded a course for Peterson Academy, flew back to Toronto and in two weeks you couldn't walk. We flew him back to Arizona where I've set up a house. that has proper air filtration, and he kind of recovered and then went on tour. And then this summer, so this has been really, like his severe health problems

have really been going on since June. And he had a couple of mold exposures, and I know how that kind of sounds, but he stayed in this motel for a couple days that was musty, he told me, and I was like, you should get out of there. He got really sick after that, and he kind of deteriorated throughout the summer,

and we were, we didn't really know what was going on because it was so severe. It was like a lot of neuropathic pain and kind of, it was mostly that. It was mostly pain and kind of slowness. And we brought him back to Arizona and tried to help him recover. And things just, I don't even know how to explain it, Pierce. Like this summer has been so bad. When I put out the video on YouTube describing how he was sick, I said that there was a spiritual element.

I think at the bottom of this, there's this mold exposure problem. But we have been walloped multiple times throughout the summer with hospitalizations and these weird illnesses. And in September, he ended up getting pneumonia and then sepsis. And then ended up with something that's called, critical illness polyneuropathy or myopathy, which can be a complication from pneumonia and sepsis. And it's just we haven't told, we haven't been talking about it because we were hoping

to see improvement faster. And every day has been like just movie level awful. And so now I put out the video because we're starting to see improvements instead of his health going like this, which it has for. It's been like four months. It's starting to go like this. So my family and I decided it was appropriate to put out a video. But we mostly just wanted to ask people for prayers because it's been. So this summer, if I can get into it a bit, I had a baby in May.

And when she was six weeks old, she went into heart failure and turned blue in my bedroom. And so we brought her to the hospital and she was diagnosed. with idiopathic pulmonary hypertension, they can't find anything wrong. She's fine now, which is a miracle, but she almost died. And this is my third kid. It's not like that's a normal thing to happen to kids.

And then when my dad had to be hospitalized in August, he went to a hospital. I came back home after visiting him there. And that night, my baby was turned blue again for an unrelated issue. So I'd been to a hospital. I was heading to another hospital in an ambulance being like, what's going on? So I don't know. A lot of me thinks there's a huge spiritual element at play with like Dennis Prager being paralyzed

and then Charlie Kirk. So I know that was a bit disjointed and everything. And I think mold is at the bottom of our like autoimmunity and psych issues that we've been dealing with for like, you know, my entire life. But I think there's a large spiritual element at play, too. I think a lot of people have been feeling that in the last number of months. I mean, that's an extraordinary thing you've just said when you believe what spiritual things you think could be going on? Honestly, and I would have just scoffed it myself years ago for saying this, but there's this resurgence of Christianity. I don't know if you thought this was where we were going with this talk, but there's been this huge resurgence.

Surgeons of Christianity in America. And I think, and I believe that, you know. And so I think there's a demonic element at play that's hitting people to be perfectly blunt. Now, I also think mold is what's making us sick. But there's a, I don't know, something's going on in the world now. And I think a lot of people can feel it. You genuinely think this is the work of the devil?

You know what? It's too coincidental to not. be, you know, I think it was C.S. Lewis that talked about synchronicities and that that's how you can kind of identify God by like too many coincidences. But throughout my entire life, I have seen that. But this summer has been brutal. Like, what are the chances of my dad being hospitalized and then my newborn being hospitalized for turning blue? It's not like I just randomly brought her to the hospital within a three-hour time period randomly. Like, it's just, it's been too much. So that's, That's where I'm at now, which is why I went on YouTube and asked for prayers.

It's that because there's been no definitive diagnosis other than SERS, which is a legitimate problem and disease. But dad is getting hit so hard. And then with everything that could go wrong has gone wrong, although things seem to be turning around now. And have you had, Michaela, have you had moments when you thought you might lose him? Oh, in the last month or two? yeah, we seem to be through that, but it's been really, really, really, really scary. I'm so sorry for what you've been going through.

I'd absolutely no idea. I would have contacted you before this. Oh, that's okay. Thank you. We kept it under wraps. Is he able to talk? Can you converse with him? Kind of? Like, yes. Better than 10 days ago was brutal. You're like, things just turned around. So now we can talk, but he's not, like, he's not recovered from the complications from the pneumonia and sepsis yet. So things are still, like I said, they're improving, but they're not fantastic.

Please send him our very best from everyone over here in the UK. I know he comes here a lot. He loves the UK. He's hugely popular here. I'm incredibly sorry to hear what's been going on with him. And I hope to speak with him before too long. if he's strong enough to do that. And our thoughts with you and all your family, Michaela. Thank you. Thank you so much. I appreciate you coming on. Thank you. Today's show is brought to you by Oxford Natural,

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Guys, you were booked nothing to do with what we've just been listening to. Pretty shocking. Yeah. What did you make of that interview, Gary? Well, I think it's more common than people think. Ten years ago, most doctors would have pooed things like mold, mycotoxin, parasites. virus and heavy metals, but we realize that these are the types of not only biologics, but environmental toxins that light up the immune system.

You know, chronic inflammatory response syndrome is a response, an over-response of the immune system to these different toxins. And, you know, some people eliminate toxins well from their body. They methylate toxins well, and they're susceptible to mold exposure, but they're not susceptible to mold illness. Other people methylate these very poorly, and these accumulate in their bloodstream in their tissues and they cause very severe consequences like what you're hearing. Chris, you know this better than anybody because extraordinarily over the weekend,

you just released a shocking news of a documentary following you for 18 months, tracking your battle against Lyme disease and toxic mold. Yeah, America is a very fun country with lots of good stuff in it, but the environment is not particularly welcoming to people that aren't used to it. So the food, the environmental stresses that are in there, I lived in a house for two years that had toxic mold in it. I had EBV, CMV, Candida, H. Pylori, Roundworm, liver fluke, heavy metals, Lyme disease, and then got COVID.

So for basically one month, one pathology per month, every single month last year, I had to cross off one of these things. As Gary knows, when you have what's called complex illness, there's loads of stuff wrong with you, but we don't quite know who the culprit is. You're kind of like Sherlock Holmes going, is it the EBV, is it the heavy metals, is it the BPAs, is it the mold, is it the round-o-euvre?

Because you look so, and always do, so healthy. Thank you. And yet you'd be fighting me. I want to play a clip, actually, from your documentary. Let's take a little look. I guess you never know what someone's going through. Half a million Americans may be diagnosed and treated with Lyme disease.

It's one of these unique situations in life where working harder does not fix it. Grasping for fresh air. through the midst of black mold. And that was an unbelievably difficult hell to swallow. It's extraordinarily prescient. When you hear what's happening to the Peterson family, what were you feeling that you're listening to that?

Michaela's a good friend. Jordan's been on the show three times, and I consider I'm a good friend too. And Surs is no joke. Mold just sounds like something that occurs on bread. It is, there was a day when I looked down and I forgot how to tie my shoes. I literally looked at the last.

laces on the top of my feet and I didn't know how to do it. I had trouble with silence. I had trouble with sleep. I had trouble with remembering people's names with remembering words. All I do, my whole job, your whole job, remembering words. It's all we do. And it just felt like a really personal curse. So my heart goes out to Michaela and Jordan. It's no joke. And there needs to be more done to bring awareness to complex illness. And I have Gary's phone number, or Andrew Huberman's phone number, or Peter Attia's phone number. And more time and resources than some people do, and it took so much effort. So if you're a normal working person with a life and a family to support, you cannot.

It is so unreachable for almost everybody to be able to try and fix this stuff. It's really ruthless. We last spoke when you were Dana White, who obviously swears by, because he thinks he's basically saved his life. Just recap that quickly for people who aren't aware of your background with Dana. So, I mean, Dana had a typical scenario like most, like many Americans. He was on hypertensive medication. He was on thyroid medication.

He was morbidly obese by obesity standards. He was on a CPAP machine. He had pretty severe tinnitus in his ears. He was told he needed to have adenoid widening surgery to widen the throat of his mouth so he could get more air in at night. He was told he might be scheduled for a heart ablation where they actually go in and, you know, burn the AB node of the heart. pretty significant procedure. But at the end of the day, he was nutrient deficient, very significantly nutrient deficient. He had genetic methylation pathways that did not allow his body to metabolize certain amino acids like homocysteine.

And not to oversimplify this was just in his case. And what this caused is severe irritation of his arterial system, which caused it to constrict and drive his pressure up. And even though he always had normal cardiac exams, EKGs, EEGs, heart and lung sounds, die contrast studies, cardiac casts, you know, x-rays, he was told he had idiopathic hypertension, and he was brutally hypertensive. And since the medications weren't bringing it down, what we were able to do through a series of dietary and lifestyle modifications and targeted supplementation was returned this capacity of his body to eliminate waste to normal. And, you know, and human beings rarely do multiple systems fail at the same time. Like, you know, when you see all of these pathogens that you had, it wasn't like you continued to catch pathogens. A lot of what you named are viruses you've always had. You know, we don't catch Epstein-Barr virus.

We've always had it. You had mono as a child. Immune system gets run down. It comes back as Epstein-Barr. You have chickenpox as a child. The immune system gets run down, and now you have the shingles. And so, you know, I was asking a question on the podcast the other day. I thought it was a really interesting question.

Somebody said, if you put the 50 top experts in the world in one room, the longevity experts, PhDs, the MDs, the researchers. And you ask them, what one theory on aging do you think they would all agree on? And I thought, wow, that's a really difficult question. But I think we would all agree on the theory of immunophotigue, a slow, progressive, overwhelmed the immune system, which is essentially what happened in Mr. Peterson's case. And my heart goes out to that family, too. Because once the immune system is overwhelmed and can no longer perform it, function, no longer police us and no longer protect us.

And how much, Gary, of that is lifestyle? Like, I feel like when I've really worked, especially in the winter months, there's a lot of stuff swirling around. If I overwork, I have often tripped into getting everything in the unitis, sinusitis, bronchitis, you know, and you name it. I've got five of them at one stage. But it used to be quite a regular thing, so I worked out what was happening. Plus, I live in a part of London with terrible pollution.

So, Ken's in the West London has some of the worst pollution in the UK. So I got some air purifiers. Listen to what Michaela was saying. I got air purifiers in the house. Immediately it made me feel better. And little things like that. I think there are little things everyone can do

to sort of protect your immune system. But what is, I mean, is everyone different when it comes to that? Everyone's different. I mean, the biggest fallacy in all of modern medicine is what goes into your body and his body and my body is all treated the same way. Nothing could be further from the truth. But this is why the same, you could take 100 people, they could all eat the same amount of mercury-related tuna fish.

And at the end of 90 days, a third of them will have no symptoms at all, no sign of mercury poisoning at all. A third of them will have mild symptoms, brain fog, weight gain, water retention, poor focus and concentration. And the third would have deadly mercury poisoning. So our body has the capacity to eliminate a lot of these toxins. We can actually rid the body of mold. We can rid the body of viruses. 40% of every DNA strand in our body is viral. Some of us go a lifetime without viruses like EBV ever showing their ugly head.

We silence those viruses. But when the immune system gets run down, a myriad of consequences goes wrong. And I think sometimes the challenge is you have this hubble of the wheel and you have all of these spokes, all of these symptoms. And we go chasing these spokes instead of looking for the first domino that fell, which was the weakening, the collapse of the immune system. You know, the God-given innate immune system is one of the most spectacular things on the surface of Mother Earth. and it's spectacular in its capacity to defend us, but when it's weak, it's spectacular in its capacity to cause us harm. Chris, the other thing Michaela said, which I was not expecting,

was that she thinks there's a spiritual thing, a very negative spiritual thing at play here, a kickback against a rise in Christianity in the United States. The devil getting involved. I mean, some will think it's completely outlandish. you talk a lot about spirituality and stuff in your podcast for people. What did you think when you heard it?

I haven't looked to the supernatural for the reasons why I got ill, but I can understand why because over the last 18 months there's been times where I just can't believe how much life sucks and it gets so low and it feels so unrelenting

and it's this personal curse. You mentioned before well Chris you kind of look okay but on the inside is sort of crumbling. There is this if I had a broken arm, you'd be able to look at it and you'd be able to explain, well, that's why your hand doesn't work.

Your hand doesn't work because you've got something that's wrong. But when it's all internal, regardless of how many blood tests you look at, you always think, well, is this, I shouldn't be this way? Why can't I remember how to tie my shoes? Why do I fall asleep at 7 p.m. at night? So you do start to think, is there something more going on? This just feels unfair.

That being said, I did interview Bonnie Blue in a church the other day, So this could be some sort of calmic retribution for doing that. Do you feel, I mean, are some of your own mantras that you've developed very successfully over the last few years? Have they been challenged through your experience? Hugely. Very, very humbling. It is all well and good to say that you are able to deal with hard things and you can put up with resilience and all the rest of it. But when what's taken away from you is your capacity to work harder.

This is one of the problems. And I imagine that you would have the same issue too. if you get sick, the thing that you need to do is rest. Yes. The solution that you have to most of your problems is work harder. So the very thing that you need to do is the very thing that you find most difficult. And that relinquishing, that letting go of control is the inverse of what the overachiever, the insecure overachieving usually does.

I had long COVID for about seven, eight months. And by long COVID, I mean, I lost my taste and my smell. Has ever come back fully. I don't taste or smell things. complained about not enjoying your favorite red wine to me. Well, no. What was so weird? So I had a very high fever with COVID. This was about three, four years ago at the sort of Hydeville.

And sorry, I've actually probably designed on the bad. Come on. I've just managed... It's kind of compromised to me. I'm bringing in the golf tournament. There was a rumor that a particular actor had spread COVID again. But anyway, none of us got tested, you know. But what was interesting about it was that the... I spoke to a GP, very experienced local.

G.B. And he said, you know, with this long COVID, I'm reading a lot about it. I was exhausted with 25% energy for seven months. And the fear was, am I always going to be like this? Well, I never get my smell back, never get my taste back. Well, I always just have no energy. Because I live off energy. It's my whole USB. And he said, you know, I'll tell you what the problem is. He said, what you should do is just go down to the coast, book a nice home and do what we used to do, send people for convalescence on the coast. Get some sea air, gentle walks, and spend six weeks recovering from this trauma on your body.

But nobody does that anymore. And he said, what you do is you continue working, I literally continued working. You never let your body actually recover, and therefore you just exacerbate everything. I thought that made a lot of sense. Well, look, I think you have a big problem that a lot of the people who overworked themselves

try to fix their problem by overworking their way through their recovery, which is the opposite of what it is. But yeah, the main, and I'm sure you see this with your patients too, the main fear is, oh, this is going to be me for the rest of my life. And the most painful thing, out of everything that I went through with the health journey, which is still ongoing, the most painful thing was disappointment. It was getting my hopes up,

because every different doctor, their speciality is the answer. It's a golden hammer. The nutritionists think that it's a food problem. The sleep experts think it's a rest problem. The training people think it's an S&C problem. The mole people think it's an environmental stressor problem. The Lyme people think it's a Borrelia problem. And you're like, okay, each time you speak to one

to cross off one of those culprits in your Sherlock Holmes' red herring list, you get your hopes up, you fix it, and then it's not there. Or you struggle to fix it. But yeah, Surs is, I think that is going to be one of the things that we see over the next five years is like the big problem. What do you think of the spiritual aspect of what Michaela was saying there, that she believes as a kind of negative energy at play with her dad and other people on the Christian right.

She referenced Charlie Kirk and Dennis Brager and so on. I mean, it's a very out there thing to say. I think it sounds like it's a very out there thing to say. But for people that are believers, you know, we feel this, this sentiment. You know, Bobby Kennedy, who's now the Secretary of Health and Human Services, one of the most principled, passionate, driven human beings I've ever had the pleasure of meeting. You're on his advisory board, I think, aren't you? I am for Maha Action.

I chair that board. And, you know, here he is just asking the questions. And just for asking the questions, just for challenging the status quo. And their very basis of science is centered around a question, the hypothesis, right? If we didn't have a hypothesis, we wouldn't have science. When we stopped questioning the science, you know, science grinds to a complete halt. And so just for simply asking the questions, the level of vitriol and hatred, and I think this is spiritually driven, I think this is much of a spiritual revolution that we're seeing in America as we are a revolution on health. Because people are so dogmatic about political parties that everything becomes politicized.

And so now there is a dogmatic attack on spirituality in general. You see the rise in anti-Semitism. You see the rise against Christianity. Because anyone that has a belief system that is different from someone else's opinion system is considered to be a racist or a bigot. We don't accuse people of being racist or bigots for not agreeing with our religion, but we get accused of being racist or bigots for not going to agreeing with their dogma. Right.

And it's a very oxymoronic situation. I've actually written a book about this. Oh, have you? All right. I'm going to read it. Woke is dead, which is an optimistic view of it. but I get into that as well. You know, I do think this kind of,

this sort of tribalism, this intransigence, this self-righteousness about your own position being, not just the correct one, but the only one that's allowed. And anyone who deviates must be destroyed. In a weird way,

this wokeism, for one of a better phrase, you know, it reminds me of fascism the way it conducts itself, right? And yet they would all say they hate fascists. Right. But it is a form of fascism. There's a little bit of slight,

slightly. Longevity. You're a big believer that people are going to start living longer and longer and longer, which historically we have done. I was fascinated to read that last year you went to see a friend of mine, Cristiana Ronaldo. Oh, yeah. The footballer, who is a long-time friend of mine now,

but one of the fittest, most health-conscious people I know. And I imagine he was quite curious how long you can get him to live. Yeah, no question. He had one of the best biohacking labs, ever seen. I went to see him in Saudi Arabia. I'm going to see him again at the end of October. But he's a big believer in taking care of the temple. I mean, he realizes that he's past his prime in terms of his football years, but he's not past his prime in terms of his biological years. Right? So his chronological age doesn't align with his biological age. What is his biological age,

would you say, Christian? Well, significantly younger than his chronological age. Because he's 40. There are tests you can do to determine that. What would you guess? I would say he's probably 15 or 18 years younger than his biological age? No question. I mean, his body is, I mean, he's a specimen not just physically, but biophysiologically. You know, if you look at his, what's called his methylation pathways, if you look at his blood biomarkers, if you look at the level of toxicity in his blood, mold, mycotoxins, metals, parasites, viruses, you see that these are non-existent because of the way that he ticks care of himself. Regularly doing red light, regularly applying hormetic stresses like sauna, cold plunging, getting adequate.

rest, really focusing on his sleep, eating the whole food diet. A lot of these are just the basics. And that's a lot of what we did with Dana White, too. People say, well, if I had, you know, tens of millions of dollars, I could have done the same thing. But the truth is, the vast majority of what we did with Dana White, any American, you know, of any genre could do. Is it good for society, Chris, that we live on and on and on? I mean, look at the, take the National Health Service in the UK. It used to be an amazingly wonderful institution. that everyone that's loved around the world. The problem we've discovered is capacity.

So it was built. You're suggesting killing old people sooner to alleviate stress on the United States? No, no, definitely not bringing in Newfound Asia. No, no. What I'm suggesting is that when it was devised in the 50s, it was devised for a population of just around 50 million. Now we're heading to 70 million population,

but we're living 10 years longer than we were in the 50s. The pressure that's put on infrastructure, has been immense and to the detriment really of this great system. I don't know what the answer is. I would love to live to 150. Is it a good idea? Well, birth rate decline is going to bring the population down pretty quickly. Yeah, no doubt.

So you don't need to wait long. If you wait 70 years, you're going to see the top of the human civilization. And from there, it's a really, really steep decline. Really? Oh, huge. Huge. It's crazy. Elon Musk warns about this all the time. For every 100 South Koreans, there will be four great grandchildren. That's a 96%.

drop over the next 100 years. Yeah, it's scary. And the UK is going to be, it is so precipitous, and I keep talking about it, and people keep getting mad. In the interim, people living longer is going to put more stress. What's also going to happen is, let's say that you have fewer young people being born, and people living longer. This results in a demographic shape like this.

What you want is like this, more young people who are contributing to the economy, who are able to look after in terms of adding to infrastructure, supporting pension, actually providing literal health care, but you have this. So you have an ever-increasing number of old people and ever-decreasing a number of young people who is going to support them, who is going to be able to look after them? You have fewer nurses.

You have less money being injected in for the economy. And if you say, well, that doesn't matter because AI is going to come in and fix things, it's going to improve efficiency so much. Okay, that now results in five or ten companies globally capturing almost all of the wealth and all of the power. That doesn't seem particularly fantastic for an egalitarian society either.

Is AI, Gary, I mean, I spoke to a surgeon in LA recently. He said in a three-week period that he wasn't at his hospital, the improvement in AI in his field was unbelievable. Three weeks. Are you using it? It's really astounding. We use it. I mean, AI can take 700 trillion independent variables and create inactionable. Right.

So I think the use of AI in healthcare is you combine early detection, artificial intelligence, right? and big data, and you bring those three things together, and you create actionable results. And that's why I think that we're going to see life extension to age 120, 140, within the next five years. So if you're alive five years from today, it will be your choice whether or not you want to live to 120 or 120. Is it, I mean, Elon Musk has shown me on his phone videos

of his optimist, humanoid robots, dancing. Are we going to, before we get to that, obviously, they're going to come, and he says they're going to be the biggest thing in the world, that everyone's going to want one. There'll be $20,000 each. Rich people will have 10 of them and they'll do everything, all the menial tasks you could imagine. But is there like a midway that's going to come too in terms of health where you'll start to become half bionic, right? Where your heart will pack up so you'll get a bionic heart, almost like the old $6 million man.

It will come to... Yeah, it's not really the organ replacement. It's the life extension. It's true life extension because, you know, to date, we've done 270, $280 million. you know, peer-review published randomized clinical trials in the United States. And a lot of these trials are done in very myopic environments. You take a cell out of the body, you study how it behaves in a lab, and then you assume that when you put it back in the body, it's going to behave the same way.

And nothing could be further from the truth. But what AI is capable of doing is looking at that cell in its community. No, it models. So, yeah, so it models it. And it says, well, what if we take a stat and we lower cholesterol and reduce this risk of cardiovascular disease? What's the consequence of taking this valuable construction material out of the biome? Oh, now you have hormone disruption. You have cell membrane, cell membrane, cell wall disruption.

You have increased risk of Alzheimer's dementia. So it can look at this multifactorial system, this community that ourselves survived. And do it in seconds. 700 trillion independent variables. It far exceeds the capacity of the brightest mind in the world. What do you think is going to be the first frontier of this? Is there something that you think will be the initial unlock when it comes to the AI? Early detection.

So detecting cancers at stake. age zero, I'm locking into the human genome right at birth. And I'm not talking about changing the human genome. I'm not talking about going in like CRISPR and sniffing the human genome, but looking at people's genetic variants and saying, you have these predispositions, you have these inability to methylate certain nutrients. So this is your specific nutrient profile that you need to supplement with. This is your risk profile. Here's exactly what you need to avoid. And if you are going to use a chemical or synthetic or pharmaceutical, you'll know exactly the dose in exactly what form.

Because right now we apply a blanket to the entire population. So interesting. What's the one thing we shouldn't eat and the one thing we should eat? If you can literally name two things. If I were only given two things, I'd say you shouldn't eat processed foods.

Any. Any processed foods. I mean, if you look at the blue zones, you know, there's no continuity between diets. Well, my favorite, I mean, I've got a place in L.A. My favorite story of American food, which always startles me. If you have a loaf of bread in London, within a week is moulding. Yeah. That same loaf of bread in L.A., I can leave it there a month, six weeks. Two months.

Two months. Nothing's changed. You got to look at the difference in the number of ingredients in McDonald's fries in the UK versus the US. Yeah, we can really go down that bag. This is the first stats. So the UK in Europe is three ingredients and one of them salt, which is optional. And the US is 15 ingredients. Is it really? Ingredients. And this happens across the board. This is Cali means and Casey means big thing, right? Kellogg's are using the same factory that makes fruit loops for the U.S. also makes it for Canada. Why? Why the wild discrepancy?

Because we have something on the grass laws, generally regarded as safe. This is one of the things that Bobby Kennedy and Health and Human Services is trying to modify. So generally regarded as safe has a lot of loopholes. So a lot of toxicity leaks into the food supply, petroleum-based food dyes, paraquot, glyphosate. And you look at these chemical companies like ChemChina, for example, that makes Paracquot, which is a felony to use in China. So you can't use this on crops in China. But it's manufactured there, and you export this to the United States, and we're considering, in House Appropriations Bill Section 453, we're actually considering giving broad immunity to these chemical companies for known harm.

There's a correlated risk with Parkinson's disease. There are correlated risks to mesothelioma with things like glyphosate. But we'll give broad immunity to these chemical companies, and we're about to do that in the United States. And then these things leak into our food supply. So it's not the food. It's the distance from the food. Gets even further than that. The inner lining of the bags that Kellogg comes in is there's a preservative that's put on the inside of that in America that isn't in Canada.

And they're produced in the same factory next to each other. I will see you do a better job of it here in the UK than we do in the States. Yeah, I mean, it's one of the reasons I've got a lot of time for Opic Kennedy. I've interviewed him a number of times. And the more I've interviewed him, but less of a whack job, I think he is. I think he has some ideas that are a bit out there, no question. But I do think he comes at it from a place of real informed opinion, albeit he disagrees with a lot of the official way of looking at stuff.

And I look at America and you see a country that's full of a lot of unhealthy people. Very much. very obese country, comparative really to its wealth, right? Most in the world. And you think, well, clearly, the expert view hasn't worked very well. That's right. The establishment way of treating these issues hasn't been working. I do think that you can lay an awful lot of this.

To speak as the kind of resident muggle in this side of the panel, I think you can lay a lot of it at the feet of hyper-palatable, ultra-processed foods that are calorie-dense, right? That carries a lot of the way. You know, we can point the finger at Red 40 and food dyes and seed oils, and, you know, I imagine... You have to pick the low-hanging fruit where you can... Yeah, which is, I can eat lots of this over and over again,

and it has loads of calories in it. That's a very, very bad start for doing this sort of stuff. And Ozempic and the rise of GLP-1s and anorectics, as they're now called as we move into like JLP 3s and JLP4s and stuff like that, they are an artificial solution to an artificial problem. Yeah, I mean, people are still bathing their cellular biology in a toxic soup, but to taking Chersepotide, Reda, Reticutide,

or somaglatide, you know, Wago-Zempec, to lower their hunger cravings, so they eat less of the same garbage. The truth is we just need to get ultra-processed foods out of the diet because GLP-1 is a hormone we produce in our gut, and it's produced in response to nutrient density. So satiety comes from nutrient density. And when we remove the nutrients from the food,

we replace those with chemical additives, a lot of which are intentionally designed to circumvent the GLP-1. I was going to say, have you seen this? there's currently a war going on between food companies and the GLP-1s, so they're trying to make additives and food that bypass the way that GLP-1s work in the gut.

I do have to say I had a cinnamon roll from around the corner just before I came in here, so again, like I'm not quite the picture of health. Gary, I just want to mention before we finish, you've announced a launch of a methylation-focused DNA test and personalized supplement line designed to transform human potential

through genetic precision in simple language. What is that? That sounds really complicated. I do it for a living, so wow. You know, we just got our genetic test and supplements approved here through the, which is NHS.

HHS in the U.S., so NHS here. Your regulatory environment's tough, so they're very stringent, much more difficult to get approval here than in the U.S. But essentially all this is doing is giving the body the raw material it needs to do its job. You know, most of us are supplementing just for the sake of supplementing. We're not supplementing for deficiency. You know, we believe this in plain.

Most doctors tell me that most supplements are pointless. Most supplements are more than vitamin D if you don't get enough sunshine. I would agree with that. Actually, most of the others are kind of pointless. But some supplements are critical. So if you had a leaf rotting in a palm tree and you had a true arborist, a true botanist, look at that tree, they wouldn't even touch the leaf. They would court test the soil.

And they would say, you know what, peers, there's no nitrogen in the soil. And they would add nitrogen to the soil and the leaf would heal. Human beings are no different. The challenge with supplements is that most of us are supplementing for the sake of supplementing. We get online and we see resveratrol and Kocetan and Aschal Gondon and St. John's word. And they all sound great. And we just start piling in all this stuff and none of it works. The question is, what does your body need?

And so when you do a genetic methylation test, you find out exactly what your body can convert into the usable form and what it can't. So you no longer guess on what you need to supplement with. You supplement for deficiency. And this is when supplements are magic, right? Supplementing for the sake of supplementing is just complete guesswork. It's like just taking a shotgun and blasting it in the dark. When you supplement for deficiency, magic happens in the human body. If you have the most common gene mutation in the world, which is called M-T-H-F-R, you're M-P-H-F-R.

I won't tell you what the nickname is for that gene on this show. What is it? We're uncensored. Oh, we're uncensored. So it's the motherfucker gene. Stans for methylene tetrahydrafolate reductase, just so you know. But we call it the motherfucker gene, the M-T-H-F-R gene mutation. Forty-six percent of the population has this gene mutation.

It is an inability to properly methylate or process folate and folic acid. Now, folic acid, interestingly, is not a natural compound. You can't find folic acid anywhere on the surface of the earth. It does not occur naturally in nature. But it is in so many of our supplements. We give it to pregnant women as soon as they get pregnant. we're told you need to take high doses of folic acid, which is patently false,

you need to take high doses of methylfolate or folinic acid. The US FDA actually just approved the first prescription strength, four days ago, philinic acid, which is the form that skips this gene mutation and is bioavailable. So when you look at certain genes in your body, you look at these genes that you can fix with supplementation. Now, you can actually fix the gene, but you can target its deficiency.

This is when magic happens in human beings, but we're walking around with anxiety and ADD and ADHD and OCD and manic depression and bipolar and gut issues and autoimmune, 85% of which is idiopathic. It's of unknown origin, just like the Sears diagnosis in her father is idiopathic. And that's not to degrade the diagnosis. But if it's idiopathic, that just means that modern medicine doesn't have an answer for it. If it's idiopathic and of unknown origin, why don't we go back to what God gave us, not what? what man makes us and supplement for deficiency and let the body do its job. It seems, I mean, this seems so much more logical to me. But, of course, there's a huge industry built up around giving people things they don't need. That's right.

That's the problem. And you can make an argument for any one of those things at any different time. I mean, I'm a big fan of Oshaegu, and KU10 and St. John's Wart and NMN and NED. And all of these different supplements have their own place. But unless you supplement for deficiency, nothing else matters. You know, in the plant example, if you didn't find the nitrogen, missing in the soil. Nothing else would have mattered. Well, I don't say anything at all.

Okay. I'm 60 years old. Might be while you're coughing. I do a bit of work. Well, I just nearly want to go off to them, a professional one. I've been a pro. But all the same. And I'm 60 years old.

I do a bit of working out. I like a few glasses of wine. I eat reasonably healthfully, but I wouldn't, you know, occasional every seven weeks a Big Mac. How long have I got? So everybody's on an actuarial curve, but you know, in the science that we used

to look at was specific mortality. If we got 10 years of medical records on you and 10 years of demographic data, we could really zero in on that number. So you could tell me when I'm likely to die? In a population of 1,000, we could tell you your life expectancy to the month. The big question is,

do I want to know? Do you want to know? I'll come back on the show. Yes, exactly. Exactly. Let me think about that. You've had 10.4 years. We've run out of time. It's been brilliant.

I can do this for hours. Next time we probably should. To have you both was great. Thank you for you. I'm so sorry for what you've been through. I had no idea about that. I'd have dropped you a line. They're really bad about Jordan.

Two people I really respect and like and have done interviews for each other's shows. And I had no idea you've been through this. Great to see you. Thank you. Looking so well. Great to have you here in the studio. Great to meet you, Gary. Great.

Dana still talks about you like you're the second country. and Christiano. I think I'm going to see him in Saudi in a week, actually, next week. Oh, I'll see him in two weeks. So the one thing he's going to absolutely love is that you saying he has a body of a 22-year-old. He will like that. That I can guarantee. Guys, thank you both very much. Pierce Morgan Unsencent is proudly independent. The only boss around here is me. If you enjoy our show, we ask only one simple thing.

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